Jeannie’s answer to “Is this series as bad as it seems?” > Likes and Comments
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Thank you for such an in-depth response. As you have mentioned, I am also invested in the story, and find myself returning to it every so often. For me, the biggest problem is just the sheer boredom that overwhelms me as I read this series. Have a great day and maybe I'll comment again when I start reading the books again!
I see this post is one-year old but it pushed me to point out a few things because it's so rare to find a post with which you totally agree.
First, I must say that I totally agree with everything you've written. In fact, as a male, I remember reading them thinking about how the description of woman and their personality are completely flat and so imagining that every woman who ever tried to read these books would quit pretty early in the saga.
My personal reaction to the Man vs Woman was strange: early on it would make me smile, after a couple books it's started to annoy me and finally during the last few books it almost mad me laugh (probably because it is a "kind" reminder of a thing between the characters that never changed during all these books).
Then I must say that part of this (on the argument of flat woman characters) is normal: I find that male authors just do better male characters and vice versa. Probably because they tend to completely put themselves in and so as a result the same gender characters have always a more complete personality.
Finishing I want to point out that I’m a big fan of this series, I just think that it’s a tough read.
@Marco. Yeah, I've since finished the series and there were so many points where I thought to myself, "should I really bother to finish this?" but man am I glad I did! I LOVED the last few books.
I can't say the male to female comparisons ever became endearing to me, maybe they would on reread (they made me smile in the beginning as well but then it seemed like he was whipping a dead horse.)
Branderson is a boss, and he came through beautifully with the last books. I felt he stripped away much of Jordan's verbosity and we were left with a purer rendering of what was in Jordan's mind in the first place. I know large sections of the last books were penned by Jordan himself so credit for the prose must also go to him. But yeah, it truly is an great epic and Jordan deserves lots of respect. I think perhaps he needed and editor who wasn't his wife. I'm sure she did a great job but the closer you are to the writing the harder it is to get the objective perspective necessary to edit books of that length. ... I dunno, but without the superfluous things, these stories could have been gold.
I hear it's been optioned for TV again (finally). I hope they do it justice! And I can't wait :)
Fantastic! Too bad I miss the saga now, for it being so long and slow, it completely transports you to this world and for the characters you love, you get used to them and miss them even more.
Regard female characters I was reading some reviews now and found some people praising characters as Cadsuane and Nynaeve so maybe I didn't get something in the story. Fun fact even with all my bantering of female characters my actual most hated one is a male (Gawyn).
For the wife situation let’s say that he needed a woman that actually thought a little bit like one of his characters, in that case he probably wouldn't have published even the first book :D
About the TV series I don't know if they will ever make it but who knows... I think the magic system would be really difficult to make, at least for today standards, but the story probably lends itself easily to a series divided in episodes and at the end more WoT is always better.
I just got to Book 8 and skimmed through the first 20% (Ebook). You took words from my mouth especially about women and relationships.
And how everything is fastracked with the main characters, even love. I'm tired of the blushing everytime.
Mat, Rand and Perrin are stereotypical cliches. I get bored with all Egwene's parts. I truly enjoy the Seanchan parts and can't wait to get there.
I hope things changed when B.Sanderson took over.
The Sanderson books are much better! They make it all worth it :)
IIIIIII strongly disagree. There's nothing predictable about the plot and there's no point in forced homosexuality. The sense of danger is as real as it can get.
I finished this awesome series sometime in March 2019. And joined the exciting Twitter of Time hashtag on Twitter.
There are no open gay characters but lots of gay references like pillow friends etc. Totally worth it.
Thank you for this answer which expresses perfectly my issues with this series! I agree wholeheartedly.
I am starting book 7 and honestly the only thing that keeps me going is wanting to read the Sanderson books in the end. Quoted you in my review,
Thank you! Yes, the ending is definitely worth the slog, keep going :)
Great comments! You echo so much of my feelings about it (I'm re-reading it these days).
One thing I would add to the positives is how Jordan had an anthropologist's passion for cultures and their varieties. He imbues the Aiel with a fairly rich, complex, and often elusive culture. I've always appreciated this about the series.
But yeah, the gender stuff can get sort of cringy as the series wears on.
I see WoT as the fantasy writing equivalent of a Marvel movie - good popcorn fun, as long as you don't overthink it or expect anything terribly profound or novel.
Good review. This is not great fantasy. It is entertaining if you can get past the battle of the sexes which keeps reminding me of the Flintstones. Seriously -the female characters are dreadful and the male characters are at best stereotypical. I am a big fan of Brandon Sanderson. The only reason I started reading this series is that Sanderson wrote the last few books in the series. I reckon I have to read all of Jordan's books so I can enjoy the books Sanderson has written.
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David
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Jun 16, 2016 12:36AM
Thank you for such an in-depth response. As you have mentioned, I am also invested in the story, and find myself returning to it every so often. For me, the biggest problem is just the sheer boredom that overwhelms me as I read this series. Have a great day and maybe I'll comment again when I start reading the books again!
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I see this post is one-year old but it pushed me to point out a few things because it's so rare to find a post with which you totally agree.First, I must say that I totally agree with everything you've written. In fact, as a male, I remember reading them thinking about how the description of woman and their personality are completely flat and so imagining that every woman who ever tried to read these books would quit pretty early in the saga.
My personal reaction to the Man vs Woman was strange: early on it would make me smile, after a couple books it's started to annoy me and finally during the last few books it almost mad me laugh (probably because it is a "kind" reminder of a thing between the characters that never changed during all these books).
Then I must say that part of this (on the argument of flat woman characters) is normal: I find that male authors just do better male characters and vice versa. Probably because they tend to completely put themselves in and so as a result the same gender characters have always a more complete personality.
Finishing I want to point out that I’m a big fan of this series, I just think that it’s a tough read.
@Marco. Yeah, I've since finished the series and there were so many points where I thought to myself, "should I really bother to finish this?" but man am I glad I did! I LOVED the last few books. I can't say the male to female comparisons ever became endearing to me, maybe they would on reread (they made me smile in the beginning as well but then it seemed like he was whipping a dead horse.)
Branderson is a boss, and he came through beautifully with the last books. I felt he stripped away much of Jordan's verbosity and we were left with a purer rendering of what was in Jordan's mind in the first place. I know large sections of the last books were penned by Jordan himself so credit for the prose must also go to him. But yeah, it truly is an great epic and Jordan deserves lots of respect. I think perhaps he needed and editor who wasn't his wife. I'm sure she did a great job but the closer you are to the writing the harder it is to get the objective perspective necessary to edit books of that length. ... I dunno, but without the superfluous things, these stories could have been gold.
I hear it's been optioned for TV again (finally). I hope they do it justice! And I can't wait :)
Fantastic! Too bad I miss the saga now, for it being so long and slow, it completely transports you to this world and for the characters you love, you get used to them and miss them even more.Regard female characters I was reading some reviews now and found some people praising characters as Cadsuane and Nynaeve so maybe I didn't get something in the story. Fun fact even with all my bantering of female characters my actual most hated one is a male (Gawyn).
For the wife situation let’s say that he needed a woman that actually thought a little bit like one of his characters, in that case he probably wouldn't have published even the first book :D
About the TV series I don't know if they will ever make it but who knows... I think the magic system would be really difficult to make, at least for today standards, but the story probably lends itself easily to a series divided in episodes and at the end more WoT is always better.
I just got to Book 8 and skimmed through the first 20% (Ebook). You took words from my mouth especially about women and relationships. And how everything is fastracked with the main characters, even love. I'm tired of the blushing everytime.
Mat, Rand and Perrin are stereotypical cliches. I get bored with all Egwene's parts. I truly enjoy the Seanchan parts and can't wait to get there.
I hope things changed when B.Sanderson took over.
The Sanderson books are much better! They make it all worth it :)
IIIIIII strongly disagree. There's nothing predictable about the plot and there's no point in forced homosexuality. The sense of danger is as real as it can get.
I finished this awesome series sometime in March 2019. And joined the exciting Twitter of Time hashtag on Twitter.There are no open gay characters but lots of gay references like pillow friends etc. Totally worth it.
Thank you for this answer which expresses perfectly my issues with this series! I agree wholeheartedly. I am starting book 7 and honestly the only thing that keeps me going is wanting to read the Sanderson books in the end. Quoted you in my review,
Thank you! Yes, the ending is definitely worth the slog, keep going :)
Great comments! You echo so much of my feelings about it (I'm re-reading it these days).One thing I would add to the positives is how Jordan had an anthropologist's passion for cultures and their varieties. He imbues the Aiel with a fairly rich, complex, and often elusive culture. I've always appreciated this about the series.
But yeah, the gender stuff can get sort of cringy as the series wears on.
I see WoT as the fantasy writing equivalent of a Marvel movie - good popcorn fun, as long as you don't overthink it or expect anything terribly profound or novel.
Good review. This is not great fantasy. It is entertaining if you can get past the battle of the sexes which keeps reminding me of the Flintstones. Seriously -the female characters are dreadful and the male characters are at best stereotypical. I am a big fan of Brandon Sanderson. The only reason I started reading this series is that Sanderson wrote the last few books in the series. I reckon I have to read all of Jordan's books so I can enjoy the books Sanderson has written.
