Mr. Andy’s answer to “I have long thought of this book as one of my favorites, but noticed some heavy racist and misogyni…” > Likes and Comments
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Your argument is vague. I used to sympathize with RP McMurphy quite a bit, likely based on the film, but upon rereading it I realized what he does at the end is basically a sex assault. The nurse was a nasty manipulative person, but I cannot condone ripping her shirt open and choking her. It was excessive, and the shirt was not ripped open in the film. An important distinction really.
Condone? A reader has to condone what a character in a work of fiction does? Characters in works of fiction -- fiction which is something of a mirror of life -- have to follow set rules of what the reader considers acceptable to their own set of personal mores? And my argument is vague? Please.
" If one were to go out of their way to unearth misogyny or racism, one might find misogyny or racism just about anywhere." Yes, but one doesn't have to unearth anything about the misogyny in this book. As Adam said, it's pretty blatant. The villain is defeated through losing her voice and being sexually assaulted by the "hero". It's still a great work of literature, but also a blatantly misogynistic one and it's important to acknowledge that,
Indeed. I have a friend who knew Kesey. She says he wasn't easy to get along with. I'm sure I wouldn't have liked to have been around him, but that doesn't mean he didn't have some things to say. I'm optimistic -- perhaps foolishly so -- that the reframing of history might be a symptom of slow change for the better... current administration and their ilk notwithstanding. I'm rambling, but I'm also trying to work.
Ok, so, you are also ok with Gone With the Wind? Yeah?
Gone with the Wind is a horrible book, no matter, but it's not a good comparison here. GwtW was written decades after the setting and it was full of lies and can hardly be called anything other than an overgrown pamphlet of schoolgirl romance fantasy tripe. Kesey was a writer with things to say. Go further down that road, and I'll defend Mark Twain and how he wrote in his life and time. The words he used did not paint the story he told. Don't presume to know what I'm ok with. Yeah?
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Adam
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Oct 21, 2015 06:45AM
Your argument is vague. I used to sympathize with RP McMurphy quite a bit, likely based on the film, but upon rereading it I realized what he does at the end is basically a sex assault. The nurse was a nasty manipulative person, but I cannot condone ripping her shirt open and choking her. It was excessive, and the shirt was not ripped open in the film. An important distinction really.
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Condone? A reader has to condone what a character in a work of fiction does? Characters in works of fiction -- fiction which is something of a mirror of life -- have to follow set rules of what the reader considers acceptable to their own set of personal mores? And my argument is vague? Please.
" If one were to go out of their way to unearth misogyny or racism, one might find misogyny or racism just about anywhere." Yes, but one doesn't have to unearth anything about the misogyny in this book. As Adam said, it's pretty blatant. The villain is defeated through losing her voice and being sexually assaulted by the "hero". It's still a great work of literature, but also a blatantly misogynistic one and it's important to acknowledge that,
Indeed. I have a friend who knew Kesey. She says he wasn't easy to get along with. I'm sure I wouldn't have liked to have been around him, but that doesn't mean he didn't have some things to say. I'm optimistic -- perhaps foolishly so -- that the reframing of history might be a symptom of slow change for the better... current administration and their ilk notwithstanding. I'm rambling, but I'm also trying to work.
Ok, so, you are also ok with Gone With the Wind? Yeah?
Gone with the Wind is a horrible book, no matter, but it's not a good comparison here. GwtW was written decades after the setting and it was full of lies and can hardly be called anything other than an overgrown pamphlet of schoolgirl romance fantasy tripe. Kesey was a writer with things to say. Go further down that road, and I'll defend Mark Twain and how he wrote in his life and time. The words he used did not paint the story he told. Don't presume to know what I'm ok with. Yeah?
