Peter’s answer to “Can anyone explain me why didn't they all run away from that place? Because I could not figure ou…” > Likes and Comments
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You are missing the point.
Exactly. The book is about complacency and accepting your fate. Something we're all guilty of to some degree.
I think it's a valid point. Unless they were completely brainwashed, but clearly they weren't. No obvious markings, tattoos. They could go into any shop and not cause a stir. The hailsham crew even believed they had souls???so yes! why not introduce a bit of Logan's Run revolution I say :)
Religion is a good example of mass hypnosis and mind control. Religion causes people to act irrationally and not in their own self-interest nor in the best interest of society in general. People also act irrationally due to peer pressure, with or without religion.
I thought about this, too. I actually think this is evidence for more genetic tampering with the clones beyond sterility. It's likely they were modified to be less emotional, more complacent, and less questioning of authority or societal norms.
They can access the literature that was available to them at the school. I don't think it's unreasonable to bet that the available literature skewed heavily toward social duty and away from martyrdom.
Actually, I thought that the literature that they were exposed to was restricted - so they didn't have exposure to a world of literature. Also, as clones, they were treated to a clinical existence & moulded to believe that the regular 'human' society was not a place for them. So, the aspect of their rights or of running away quite didnt factor at all.
I am sorry but I can't buy any of the explanations given here. Individuals vary too much for brain washing or genetic manipulation to work that well. I think the author just focused on other parts of the story and let that go.
This thread is fascinating: the people who are arguing that people always have insight into their imprisonment are perhaps the most likely to be imprisoned without knowing it. In apartheid South Africa, where I grew up, white people almost exclusively believed that black people were lesser, and helped to perpetuate a system that dehumanised them. We had access to literature, films, political writing, even the freakin' Cosby Show, and yet such was the extent of the brainwashing that many of us still believed an obvious falsehood. Since the end of apartheid I know many white South Africans who are still embarrassed by how fooled they were; some won't even talk about it, such is their shame. Do not underestimate the power of cognitive biases.
Hi, Emlyn, I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with my comment or not. Certainly, cognitive bias is a problem but I don't think that's what's going on in this novel. At least not on the part of the clones, in the rest of the society, yes, it certainly is.
Agree that it does fail. But, it is still worthwhile read. Don’t watch the movie....dull as toast.
You interpret the whole thing from your personal experience where you are supossed to have a kind of freedom that allows you to rebel. However if you look back in history you find many examples of people "accepting" what was imposed to them, not having the choice to rebel against it (Nazi holocaust against Jews, slavery throughout history).
I agree, the novel mentions Hardy, Proust, Kafka, Eliot. If these authors don't give you a yearning for freedom and individual happiness I don't know what does!
This is an incredible discussion and I wonder how many commenters failed to read Christine Eakin's comment above.
The truth is that in every oppressive system, the VAST majority of sufferers fail to rebel and escape their situation unless a critical mass of others are doing it first. And that's as true today as it was in every other point in history. The "brave rebel" who defies his conditioning is a historical anomaly.
Hard to say he's ignoring it when it's literally his entire reason for writing the book.
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Meg
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Apr 21, 2015 06:42PM
You are missing the point.
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Exactly. The book is about complacency and accepting your fate. Something we're all guilty of to some degree.
I think it's a valid point. Unless they were completely brainwashed, but clearly they weren't. No obvious markings, tattoos. They could go into any shop and not cause a stir. The hailsham crew even believed they had souls???so yes! why not introduce a bit of Logan's Run revolution I say :)
Religion is a good example of mass hypnosis and mind control. Religion causes people to act irrationally and not in their own self-interest nor in the best interest of society in general. People also act irrationally due to peer pressure, with or without religion.
I thought about this, too. I actually think this is evidence for more genetic tampering with the clones beyond sterility. It's likely they were modified to be less emotional, more complacent, and less questioning of authority or societal norms.
They can access the literature that was available to them at the school. I don't think it's unreasonable to bet that the available literature skewed heavily toward social duty and away from martyrdom.
Actually, I thought that the literature that they were exposed to was restricted - so they didn't have exposure to a world of literature. Also, as clones, they were treated to a clinical existence & moulded to believe that the regular 'human' society was not a place for them. So, the aspect of their rights or of running away quite didnt factor at all.
I am sorry but I can't buy any of the explanations given here. Individuals vary too much for brain washing or genetic manipulation to work that well. I think the author just focused on other parts of the story and let that go.
This thread is fascinating: the people who are arguing that people always have insight into their imprisonment are perhaps the most likely to be imprisoned without knowing it. In apartheid South Africa, where I grew up, white people almost exclusively believed that black people were lesser, and helped to perpetuate a system that dehumanised them. We had access to literature, films, political writing, even the freakin' Cosby Show, and yet such was the extent of the brainwashing that many of us still believed an obvious falsehood. Since the end of apartheid I know many white South Africans who are still embarrassed by how fooled they were; some won't even talk about it, such is their shame. Do not underestimate the power of cognitive biases.
Hi, Emlyn, I'm not sure if you are disagreeing with my comment or not. Certainly, cognitive bias is a problem but I don't think that's what's going on in this novel. At least not on the part of the clones, in the rest of the society, yes, it certainly is.
Agree that it does fail. But, it is still worthwhile read. Don’t watch the movie....dull as toast.
You interpret the whole thing from your personal experience where you are supossed to have a kind of freedom that allows you to rebel. However if you look back in history you find many examples of people "accepting" what was imposed to them, not having the choice to rebel against it (Nazi holocaust against Jews, slavery throughout history).
I agree, the novel mentions Hardy, Proust, Kafka, Eliot. If these authors don't give you a yearning for freedom and individual happiness I don't know what does!
This is an incredible discussion and I wonder how many commenters failed to read Christine Eakin's comment above.The truth is that in every oppressive system, the VAST majority of sufferers fail to rebel and escape their situation unless a critical mass of others are doing it first. And that's as true today as it was in every other point in history. The "brave rebel" who defies his conditioning is a historical anomaly.
Hard to say he's ignoring it when it's literally his entire reason for writing the book.
