Daryl’s answer to “Can anyone explain me why didn't they all run away from that place? Because I could not figure ou…” > Likes and Comments
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Very insightful and well-said!
I very much like your phrase, 'Enlightenment requires distance.' This is so true. For as long as you are growing up in a culture you do not see its faults; only when you change your environment is when you get a better picture.
But Kathy had "distance" when she worked as a carer and travelled up and down the country for 10 years. She would have been exposed to outside influences. She was also living in a tower block in the city, surrounded by non-clones. Did she never socialise or talk to anyone? This is a major flaw in the book. It's really stretching the plausibility.
To your point Simon, I agree that it does stretch plausibility. But I don't think Kathy actually had that much distance. It sounds like they kept her quite busy running around the country from person to person; at one point during her and Tommy's affair at the end, she doesn't see him for a whole week because she's so busy running around. Several times it's mentioned that the excursions she takes that are not strictly work-related are pushing it; the fact that she would go somewhere not on her carer list seems to be fairly taboo or forbidden. Her job is caring for other clones just like her, it's the world she's immersed in and she can't get another job. It's also mentioned that other clones would be jealous of her bedsit, despite the fact that she doesn't get to spend much time there. Tommy never learnt to drive before he moved from carer to donor. It seemed to be implied that it was random, who got chosen to be donor first, but perhaps part of who lasts as a carer and who is up for donations first has to do with personalities, who "they" think will develop some independence. As a stronger personality, maybe it's not a coincidence that Ruth was called up for donation first and died on her second operation, which sounded like it was fairly rare. Did Kathy never socialize or talk to anyone? I'm sure she did, but with such a gaping chasm between hers and others' realities, it may not have meant much. Daryl brought up a comparison with slavery; slaves sure talked to free people and their masters, but that doesn't mean they suddenly go the sensibilities of plantation owners. I did wonder why no clones went the route of suicide; I thought for sure when Kathy stopped the car and Tommy got out he was gonna try and end himself. But again, slaves committing suicide was also rare.
They are not humans to start with. Think of them the way they are a likely to think of themselves: creatures modeled on their human-gods, but not exactly humans. I think the whole book is about what the boundaries between humans/not humans are. Clones have this rationale/emotional sides just like humans and just unlike animals. They can think, feel, speak, enjoy literature, travel and do a lot of things. They have the freedom to do a lot of things that humans allowed them to, but THAT does that make them human.
What's the source of their freedom? is is because their masters allowed them to do all these activities or is it because freedom is natural to clone?
I hate to have to do a lot of things imposed on me by my biological needs (wake up for a pee in the middle of the night ;), but I accept it as part of what it means to be a human. Maybe clones look at donations/caring this way- it's part of who they are.
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Suzanne
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Nov 07, 2015 06:16PM
Very insightful and well-said!
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I very much like your phrase, 'Enlightenment requires distance.' This is so true. For as long as you are growing up in a culture you do not see its faults; only when you change your environment is when you get a better picture.
But Kathy had "distance" when she worked as a carer and travelled up and down the country for 10 years. She would have been exposed to outside influences. She was also living in a tower block in the city, surrounded by non-clones. Did she never socialise or talk to anyone? This is a major flaw in the book. It's really stretching the plausibility.
To your point Simon, I agree that it does stretch plausibility. But I don't think Kathy actually had that much distance. It sounds like they kept her quite busy running around the country from person to person; at one point during her and Tommy's affair at the end, she doesn't see him for a whole week because she's so busy running around. Several times it's mentioned that the excursions she takes that are not strictly work-related are pushing it; the fact that she would go somewhere not on her carer list seems to be fairly taboo or forbidden. Her job is caring for other clones just like her, it's the world she's immersed in and she can't get another job. It's also mentioned that other clones would be jealous of her bedsit, despite the fact that she doesn't get to spend much time there. Tommy never learnt to drive before he moved from carer to donor. It seemed to be implied that it was random, who got chosen to be donor first, but perhaps part of who lasts as a carer and who is up for donations first has to do with personalities, who "they" think will develop some independence. As a stronger personality, maybe it's not a coincidence that Ruth was called up for donation first and died on her second operation, which sounded like it was fairly rare. Did Kathy never socialize or talk to anyone? I'm sure she did, but with such a gaping chasm between hers and others' realities, it may not have meant much. Daryl brought up a comparison with slavery; slaves sure talked to free people and their masters, but that doesn't mean they suddenly go the sensibilities of plantation owners. I did wonder why no clones went the route of suicide; I thought for sure when Kathy stopped the car and Tommy got out he was gonna try and end himself. But again, slaves committing suicide was also rare.
They are not humans to start with. Think of them the way they are a likely to think of themselves: creatures modeled on their human-gods, but not exactly humans. I think the whole book is about what the boundaries between humans/not humans are. Clones have this rationale/emotional sides just like humans and just unlike animals. They can think, feel, speak, enjoy literature, travel and do a lot of things. They have the freedom to do a lot of things that humans allowed them to, but THAT does that make them human. What's the source of their freedom? is is because their masters allowed them to do all these activities or is it because freedom is natural to clone?
I hate to have to do a lot of things imposed on me by my biological needs (wake up for a pee in the middle of the night ;), but I accept it as part of what it means to be a human. Maybe clones look at donations/caring this way- it's part of who they are.
