Mark’s answer to “It's a remarkably good book that has developed a cultish following. What is it that makes Stoner so…” > Likes and Comments
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If William Stoner stands for Everyman... then we are really in a mess... what a totally ridiculous person and life.. if he was oppressed... he let himself be oppressed... downtrodden.. the same.. and defeated... he defeated himself... I just read that someone said this is about LOVE... really... not my kind of love... awful book... sorry... you can all read and re-read it again... I will return it to the library and wish I had never read it...
I take issue with the idea that he is oppressed, downtrodden, or in any sense defeated.
Stoner did what he wanted to do and he found beauty in the things he pursued. That anyone should expect to be rewarded or experience reciprocity with the people and things in their lives is, it seems to me - to be very narcissistic and incredibly... ignorant.
This "I deserve better" attitude is exactly what Stoner isn't; people looking for the complaint department.
Life isn't a store where the customer is always right.
There is a story (from Seneca?) about a wealthy man who is imprisoned on some false pretense, and who bemoans day and night how 'the fortunes of fate' have deserted him. Fate finally appears and tells him all that was done for him for so long and how he'd had more than his share of being attended to, but strangely he'd never attributed 'his' good fortune to mere fate and yes, he wasn't going to help him any more.
The idea that we deserve any consideration by the cosmos - which has never proven to even know justice, let alone provide it - is a truly human foible. It's a serious mistake humans seem to be born with.
That seems to me to be the basic premise of stoicism and why I admire Stoner so very much.
He owns his life and blames no one for it. He may have a few regrets, but he does not dwell on them, because he is wise and knows the minds and machinations of other people are beyond his interest in controlling.
He worked at what he loved. He loved who he loved. He helped when he thought it would do good. That's it.
I honestly think people who see Stoner as a loser or weak or a 'victim' should have no problem with angry morons who spree kill their coworkers or boss because, you know, "they had it coming".
Perhaps the next time you hear that complaint from one of your friends, ask them if they would have liked it better if Stoner went around settling scores with an automatic rifle to show, you know, his 'strength'.
I strongly encourage you to save a joke for those critical people so that the next time you hear (and you will) of some lunatic shooting up their workplace, you can turn to that friend and say... "Well, at least they're not Stoner!"
I'm being facetious here, obviously, but our culture is so loaded with this damnable garbage about winners and losers... intelligent people, wise people, shouldn't talk like that, let alone think that way.
That quote really stood out for me too. I came back to it several times in the days after finishing the book and am still thinking about it as I type this.
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by
Mary
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Nov 02, 2017 07:58AM
If William Stoner stands for Everyman... then we are really in a mess... what a totally ridiculous person and life.. if he was oppressed... he let himself be oppressed... downtrodden.. the same.. and defeated... he defeated himself... I just read that someone said this is about LOVE... really... not my kind of love... awful book... sorry... you can all read and re-read it again... I will return it to the library and wish I had never read it...
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I take issue with the idea that he is oppressed, downtrodden, or in any sense defeated. Stoner did what he wanted to do and he found beauty in the things he pursued. That anyone should expect to be rewarded or experience reciprocity with the people and things in their lives is, it seems to me - to be very narcissistic and incredibly... ignorant.
This "I deserve better" attitude is exactly what Stoner isn't; people looking for the complaint department.
Life isn't a store where the customer is always right.
There is a story (from Seneca?) about a wealthy man who is imprisoned on some false pretense, and who bemoans day and night how 'the fortunes of fate' have deserted him. Fate finally appears and tells him all that was done for him for so long and how he'd had more than his share of being attended to, but strangely he'd never attributed 'his' good fortune to mere fate and yes, he wasn't going to help him any more.
The idea that we deserve any consideration by the cosmos - which has never proven to even know justice, let alone provide it - is a truly human foible. It's a serious mistake humans seem to be born with.
That seems to me to be the basic premise of stoicism and why I admire Stoner so very much.
He owns his life and blames no one for it. He may have a few regrets, but he does not dwell on them, because he is wise and knows the minds and machinations of other people are beyond his interest in controlling.
He worked at what he loved. He loved who he loved. He helped when he thought it would do good. That's it.
I honestly think people who see Stoner as a loser or weak or a 'victim' should have no problem with angry morons who spree kill their coworkers or boss because, you know, "they had it coming".
Perhaps the next time you hear that complaint from one of your friends, ask them if they would have liked it better if Stoner went around settling scores with an automatic rifle to show, you know, his 'strength'.
I strongly encourage you to save a joke for those critical people so that the next time you hear (and you will) of some lunatic shooting up their workplace, you can turn to that friend and say... "Well, at least they're not Stoner!"
I'm being facetious here, obviously, but our culture is so loaded with this damnable garbage about winners and losers... intelligent people, wise people, shouldn't talk like that, let alone think that way.
That quote really stood out for me too. I came back to it several times in the days after finishing the book and am still thinking about it as I type this.
