Paladin of Souls podcast discussion > Likes and Comments
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Kevin wrote: ""There is a certain cadre of reader-reviewers, I have noticed over the *cough*-many years, who seem to be tone-deaf to spiritual issues..."
I'm not a reader-reviewer, but, Ms. Bujold, I am tone-de..."
Heh. Fair.
Although it's always seemed to me the hell-enthusiasts are much less concerned with spiritual redemption (a personal and internal concern that needn't, actually, have anything to do with a theorized afterlife) than they are with revenge (settling scores upon persons otherwise inaccessible to them for wrongs real or imagined, two eyes for an eye by preference.)
Good grief, Mr. Dante... Also, the Buddhist hell is a trip and a half. So that seems to be a rather wide-spread human impulse.
Ta, L.
The sad thing is, those were two of the nicest people I've ever known. But their pastor/preacher/whatever said non-believers go to Hell, so...
(On the plus side, I seem to be resistant to cults and conspiracy theories. On the minus, I'm going There when all is said and done. Doesn't seem like the most positive outcome.)
It wasn't just one incident with those two, either. I've had a few other less-than-pleasant interactions.
But this post is about the podcast, not religion in general, so I'll shut up now, hoping that regulars can post their reactions! (I'm hard of hearing, and would always rather read than view/listen.)
Lois wrote: "Kevin wrote: ""There is a certain cadre of reader-reviewers, I have noticed over the *cough*-many years, who seem to be tone-deaf to spiritual issues..."
I'm not a reader-reviewer, but, Ms. Bujold..."
This is an interesting topic considering how a major focus of the story is Ista's rejection of the gods and of religion in general. Which isn't even a question of faith since she knows painfully and keenly how real the gods of her world are. It reminds me more of that phase of life when a child realizes their parent isn't perfect (sometimes leading to rejection and sometimes leading to greater understanding and acceptance). Which I feel like is an evolution of thought that goes both ways for Ista as she learns to accept the limitations of her gods and also the limitations of herself as a person and as a parent. I enjoyed how they noted this tension and explored it some in the podcast. They also note the restrictions of the various roles in life that Ista and other characters are restrained by and in the end how Ista finds a way to redefine her role and give herself new boundaries. Which is one of the aspects I love about this story. She isn't sitting and waiting for something to happen, she realizes she has to make things happen and actively work toward what she wants (even with the power of a god essentially in her pocket). So many classic fairy tales or happy endings happen due to something beyond the character's control just befalling them. The fairy godmother shows up to help Cinderella for instance. Then the prince comes and finds her, so she really just has to meekly stay put until things are suddenly better for her. But Ista realizes that isn't going to happen and she has to make things happen. I imagine books like this were a big part in helping many folks become more aware of the gap between waiting for things and actively making them happen. One of many lessons from these books so useful in real life. Not that these books ever read like lessons books. They are never preachy and are so enjoyable, and leave it up to the readers to take what we want from them which is wonderful on so many levels.
In addition to the above mentioned podcast I had time this morning for another from Jan 2025. In that interview Lois you mention not yet having read "Thinking Fast and Slow". Have you had a chance to read it since then, in part or in full?
It is at the top of my list of non-fiction recommendations to folks and I would love to hear your review of it.
Sandy wrote: "Lois wrote: "Kevin wrote: ""There is a certain cadre of reader-reviewers, I have noticed over the *cough*-many years, who seem to be tone-deaf to spiritual issues..."
I'm not a reader-reviewer, bu..."
I've not yet read Thinking Fast and Slow -- thanks for the reminder. I have a couple other books in my library queue to chew through at the moment, but I'll download the Kindle sample as a note to myself.
Ta, L
Kevin wrote: ""There is a certain cadre of reader-reviewers, I have noticed over the *cough*-many years, who seem to be tone-deaf to spiritual issues..."
I'm not a reader-reviewer, but, Ms. Bujold, I am tone-de..."
The "they looked at each other, then back at me" detail is significant, I think. To a huge extent, the reason in-groups exist is the need to punish out-groups. It's a crude hand of evolution in action. And keep in mind that you fear your fellow in-groupers will reject you if you're not with the program.
I'm both fascinated by, and annoyed with, myself, for how badly I wanted to butt in and point out all of the book's details & clues that they're overlooking, when discussing the gods' relationships with their people.
I wanted them to notice & recall the book describing the gods' ability (or not) to reach a particular mind being affected by... all the things that the book so slyly mentions in passing: that the gods gamble with predictability of human nature on the one hand vs human free will on the other: how a person will behave in a novel situation is never a sure thing.
Not to mention the communication! The gods' perpetual communication uncertainties of, Can they hear you? if so, will they listen? if so, will they interpret correctly? if so, will they go along with it? if so, will they prevail? Or will they be stopped by despair, mischance, misjudgement, opposing forces? --and so on. Because it *all* happened, both ways, to Ista, and several times, in consistent ways, to dy Cabon.
"There is a certain cadre of reader-reviewers, I have noticed over the *cough*-many years, who seem to be tone-deaf to spiritual issues..."
About age 7 my Mom enrolled me in a Unitarian Sunday School, (long story omitted) and I still consider myself a UU at 80. As a teen I had an irrational fear of succumbing to Fundamentalism--in part from the film "Elmer Gantry"--but I'd outgrown it when I read the WO5G books. Lois's speculative theology doesn't bother me a bit, yet I can imagine readers with ridgid religious beliefs might tune out or defocalize on aspects of her speculative theology they find discomforting. Sorry, no advice on how to communicate with them.
I LOVE this series - wish there was more follow up on Ista - but appreciate so much the Penric series. Thanks for writing them. BTW - am also a UU, but could see myself in the WO5G universe! Makes more sense to me than most others!
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Kevin wrote: ""There is a certain cadre of reader-reviewers, I have noticed over the *cough*-many years, who seem to be tone-deaf to spiritual issues..."I'm not a reader-reviewer, but, Ms. Bujold, I am tone-de..."
Heh. Fair.
Although it's always seemed to me the hell-enthusiasts are much less concerned with spiritual redemption (a personal and internal concern that needn't, actually, have anything to do with a theorized afterlife) than they are with revenge (settling scores upon persons otherwise inaccessible to them for wrongs real or imagined, two eyes for an eye by preference.)
Good grief, Mr. Dante... Also, the Buddhist hell is a trip and a half. So that seems to be a rather wide-spread human impulse.
Ta, L.
The sad thing is, those were two of the nicest people I've ever known. But their pastor/preacher/whatever said non-believers go to Hell, so...(On the plus side, I seem to be resistant to cults and conspiracy theories. On the minus, I'm going There when all is said and done. Doesn't seem like the most positive outcome.)
It wasn't just one incident with those two, either. I've had a few other less-than-pleasant interactions.
But this post is about the podcast, not religion in general, so I'll shut up now, hoping that regulars can post their reactions! (I'm hard of hearing, and would always rather read than view/listen.)
Lois wrote: "Kevin wrote: ""There is a certain cadre of reader-reviewers, I have noticed over the *cough*-many years, who seem to be tone-deaf to spiritual issues..."I'm not a reader-reviewer, but, Ms. Bujold..."
This is an interesting topic considering how a major focus of the story is Ista's rejection of the gods and of religion in general. Which isn't even a question of faith since she knows painfully and keenly how real the gods of her world are. It reminds me more of that phase of life when a child realizes their parent isn't perfect (sometimes leading to rejection and sometimes leading to greater understanding and acceptance). Which I feel like is an evolution of thought that goes both ways for Ista as she learns to accept the limitations of her gods and also the limitations of herself as a person and as a parent. I enjoyed how they noted this tension and explored it some in the podcast. They also note the restrictions of the various roles in life that Ista and other characters are restrained by and in the end how Ista finds a way to redefine her role and give herself new boundaries. Which is one of the aspects I love about this story. She isn't sitting and waiting for something to happen, she realizes she has to make things happen and actively work toward what she wants (even with the power of a god essentially in her pocket). So many classic fairy tales or happy endings happen due to something beyond the character's control just befalling them. The fairy godmother shows up to help Cinderella for instance. Then the prince comes and finds her, so she really just has to meekly stay put until things are suddenly better for her. But Ista realizes that isn't going to happen and she has to make things happen. I imagine books like this were a big part in helping many folks become more aware of the gap between waiting for things and actively making them happen. One of many lessons from these books so useful in real life. Not that these books ever read like lessons books. They are never preachy and are so enjoyable, and leave it up to the readers to take what we want from them which is wonderful on so many levels.
In addition to the above mentioned podcast I had time this morning for another from Jan 2025. In that interview Lois you mention not yet having read "Thinking Fast and Slow". Have you had a chance to read it since then, in part or in full?
It is at the top of my list of non-fiction recommendations to folks and I would love to hear your review of it.
Sandy wrote: "Lois wrote: "Kevin wrote: ""There is a certain cadre of reader-reviewers, I have noticed over the *cough*-many years, who seem to be tone-deaf to spiritual issues..."I'm not a reader-reviewer, bu..."
I've not yet read Thinking Fast and Slow -- thanks for the reminder. I have a couple other books in my library queue to chew through at the moment, but I'll download the Kindle sample as a note to myself.
Ta, L
Kevin wrote: ""There is a certain cadre of reader-reviewers, I have noticed over the *cough*-many years, who seem to be tone-deaf to spiritual issues..."I'm not a reader-reviewer, but, Ms. Bujold, I am tone-de..."
The "they looked at each other, then back at me" detail is significant, I think. To a huge extent, the reason in-groups exist is the need to punish out-groups. It's a crude hand of evolution in action. And keep in mind that you fear your fellow in-groupers will reject you if you're not with the program.
I'm both fascinated by, and annoyed with, myself, for how badly I wanted to butt in and point out all of the book's details & clues that they're overlooking, when discussing the gods' relationships with their people.I wanted them to notice & recall the book describing the gods' ability (or not) to reach a particular mind being affected by... all the things that the book so slyly mentions in passing: that the gods gamble with predictability of human nature on the one hand vs human free will on the other: how a person will behave in a novel situation is never a sure thing.
Not to mention the communication! The gods' perpetual communication uncertainties of, Can they hear you? if so, will they listen? if so, will they interpret correctly? if so, will they go along with it? if so, will they prevail? Or will they be stopped by despair, mischance, misjudgement, opposing forces? --and so on. Because it *all* happened, both ways, to Ista, and several times, in consistent ways, to dy Cabon.
"There is a certain cadre of reader-reviewers, I have noticed over the *cough*-many years, who seem to be tone-deaf to spiritual issues..."About age 7 my Mom enrolled me in a Unitarian Sunday School, (long story omitted) and I still consider myself a UU at 80. As a teen I had an irrational fear of succumbing to Fundamentalism--in part from the film "Elmer Gantry"--but I'd outgrown it when I read the WO5G books. Lois's speculative theology doesn't bother me a bit, yet I can imagine readers with ridgid religious beliefs might tune out or defocalize on aspects of her speculative theology they find discomforting. Sorry, no advice on how to communicate with them.
I LOVE this series - wish there was more follow up on Ista - but appreciate so much the Penric series. Thanks for writing them. BTW - am also a UU, but could see myself in the WO5G universe! Makes more sense to me than most others!
I'm not a reader-reviewer, but, Ms. Bujold, I am tone-deaf to spiritual issues because they are, too often, offensive.
I still remember talking with a couple of friends who'd gotten religion back when, and saying:
"So, I'm going to Hell?"
They looked at each other, then back at me. "Yes."
So, yes, I'm tone-deaf to religion. I live a much more pleasant life that way. My wife is Christian, and she's the tolerant kind. But not all are - and I prefer not to be reminded of them.