CHAT ROOM > Likes and Comments

We have had such a good discussion on the Presidential Election thread that I thought it would be a good idea to have a general Chat Room to discuss less serious topics unrelated to the A&S threads, which might stop them getting hijacked by our chatter. Shall we see if it works? (Don't let's make it too political:))

I have edited and moved the last few posts about nuclear radiation/fallout/power stations etc which Gary and I have had on the How do you find proof of the Biblical God? thread. Perhaps other would like to join us:-

Gary wrote: I've also studied nuclear physics and visited one of our own most infamous plants.

My point isn't that radiation isn't dangerous, it's just that people tend to fear it and the word "nuclear" a lot more than is warranted.

Take for example Fukashima, Japan. Yes it was dangerous, yes it was an environmental disaster. No one was killed, but there is obviously a chance of a small raise in cancer rates in and around the affected area. Did it deserve to equal or even eclipse the news stories of 15,000+ dead from the Tsunami? Was it worth watching the poor physicist head the desk repeatedly while being asked by a US journalist about the dangers of radiation from Fukashima reaching America.

The disaster itself got public opinion in Japan and Germany (perhaps briefly) to consider closing all of their nuclear plants, despite the fact that the replacements would be fossil fuel dependency leading to accelerated climate change which could quickly eclipse the damage from all nuclear accidents in history (http://www.newscientist.com/article/m...) and ironically Coal fire reactors put out up to 100 times more radioactive contaminants than nuclear plants per joule of energy.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/art...

If terrorists ever successfully explode a "nuclear" dirty bomb (which is actually just a regular bomb packed with radioactive contaminants) the projected deaths would be probably none from the radiation (as anyone close enough for a deadly dose would have been blasted apart anyway), next the number killed by the blast, while the potential biggest killer would be the panic caused.

It irritates me because otherwise sensible conservationists freeze up at the mention of nuclear power and there is great public pressure against it despite fossil fuels being so much more damaging to the environment and lethal to people.

Worse is that it has drastically limited funding for technology like fission-fusion hybrids (which physically cannot undergo meltdown and can actually use existing nuclear waste as fuel while decomposing it) and fusion which fuel can be extracted from water and who's waste is inert helium gas.

MadgeUK wrote: I agree with you that radiation from the new nuclear plants would not be as bad now as from Chernobyl but I was mainly talking about fallout and radiation from a nuclear bomb or from bombing a nuclear bomb installation, as some Americans want to do in Iraq and so spark of a nuclear war involving Israel. Suitcase bombs are very different from what Israel has in its arsenal.

And you can't compare tsunami deaths because they aren't man made - we have control over what we do with nuclear technology.

Gary wrote: MadgeUK wrote: "I was mainly talking about fallout and radiation from a nuclear bomb or from bombing a nuclear bomb installation"

Blowing up a nuclear bomb is again not nearly as dangerous as detonating it (the radioactive material will be scattered rather than creating a lot of new material) and the fallout from a nuclear bomb is a lot less devastating than it's actual blast, and of course the fact that using a nuclear bomb would invite its use in a reprisal.

MadgeUK wrote: "And you can't compare tsunami deaths because they aren't man made - we have control over what we do with nuclear technology. "

Gary wrote: I was comparing disasters between one that killed no-one to one that killed 15,000+ and yet saw equal or greater fear in the media.

Also, tsunamis and earthquakes are a predicted consequence of a warming Earth, so if pumping out millions of tonnes of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere does what science predicts it does, then Earthquakes, Tsunamis and superstorms are all potential man-triggered (if not man-made) consequences.

MadgeUK wrote: "As some Americans want to do in Iraq and so spark of a nuclear war involving Israel. Suitcase bombs are very different from what Israel has in its arsenal."

I don't support the unilateral use of force against Iran's nuclear program. However, I would be understandably concerned by any theocratic power gaining access for such weapons because belief in 'righteousness' can and has overridden sensible concern for consequences in the past.

Unfortunately the really scary part is what a lot of the US evangelistic politicians believe about Israel. It has been hinted that America's support of Israel may have a scary reason than just the lobbying from wealthy Americans with interests or relatives in Israel. According to these American leaders, to fulfil biblical end-time prophecy there needs to be an Israel to be attacked or destroyed. They believe this will herald the 'rapture', the 'second coming' and all the horrors that Christian believers are actively hoping will visit the world.

From people who influence the control of the largest nuclear arsenal in the world, that's not a happy thought.

Exactly, and that is why I do not trust any form of nuclear activity at the moment - there are too many loonies in America, Israel and Iran! Fortunately the re-election of Obama, who has been much more cautious about the Israel/Iran scenario, might take the heat of the loony arguments and promote a more sensible, safer, peaceable approach.

Ok, two separate issues to address here, but both relating to the same root cause which is a heightened fear of radioactivity in the public eye.

Nuclear Power
Nuclear Fission certainly has its risks and is not an ideal solution to the worlds total energy needs, however it certainly is not nearly as bad as the public fears and in very real terms nuclear power is a lot better than using fossil fuels. Unfortunately, scares like Fukashima and Chernobyl (which are both old designs with known significant flaws) have once more set nuclear power back.

Astoundingly Germany and China both moved to reduce their nuclear capability in favour of fossil fuels despite the risks from radiation being possibilities while pollution from fossil fuels are known killers with an associated death toll.

The real risk from nuclear power is failure to update reactors and failure to deal effectively with waste. Unfortunately funding for upgrades is a political hot potato thanks to anti-nuclear groups and several promising concepts in waste processing rather than dumping have little funding for the same reason.

Based on the current technology of renewable energy and the increasing instability of the climate I think that it is vital that fossil fuels be reduced dramatically as quickly as is feasible. First because of the inefficiencies inherent in transmitting power over long distances a more distributed grid needs to be set up, second wastage in homes and business needs to be addressed, finally fossil fuels need to be removed from strategic power so that the supply for transport, plastics and fertilisers is maintained as long as possible, but the shortfall needs to be made up with other sources. At the moment renewables have their own environmental impact to address as well as being not yet mature enough to entirely replace fossil fuel.

So in the short term at least I feel nuclear power has an important role to play, if it is developed and brought up to date. I also would hope that induced degradation of waste by particle beam, or use of high grade waste in Fission/Fusion hybrids could not only help address the issue of waste from earlier reactor designs, but could also become a groundbreaking business for the person who finds an alternative to long term storage.

Nuclear Weapons
I certainly hope that there is never a cause to use one of these weapons again, however I am heartened that for over 60 years no one has been stupid enough to use one again. Yet it is the kind of state that is dominated by religion that concerns me, as certainly no rational person would risk a nuclear exchange, but no rational person would fly an airliner into a building.

Israel's nuclear capability is either a brilliant smokescreen or the deliberately worst kept secret in the intelligence world. If they do indeed have the weapons they don't officially admit to, then they have used restraint against provocation so far. However, I'm not exactly heartened by the thought since they refuse to sign the NPT and do continue to follow their own agenda.

Iran certainly is the big risk, as it's easy to imagine the ruling theocracy using such a weapon. Fortunately, they do not have the delivery systems to be a great threat to the west, but supplying Islamic extremists or using the weapon on Israel (the country that the Iranian President has said should be wiped out) is not just a paranoid fantasy.

Saying that though, the west has a terrible record of being right about this sort of thing, so I would not support a unilateral move by the US or UK to attack based on intelligence reports. Yet in the extremis I would not want Iran to have the capability of triggering a nuclear exchange.

In my opinion though, diplomacy has a long way to go, and I think that the Iranian people may eventually deal with the problem themselves.

Dutch wrote: "Oh.. I thought there was going to be an actual chatroom created on a different site. But I guess what we have is our fun thread!

Pass the mince pie..."

No, we have a nice little chatty group of friends here and others can join us as they join the A&S discussions. Like minds and all that.

Yet it is the kind of state that is dominated by religion that concerns me, as certainly no rational person would risk a nuclear exchange, but no rational person would fly an airliner into a building.

It wasn't a nation which flew an aircraft into a building and it is the loony religious people at the top of certain nations which should concern us. They exist in the US, in Israel, in Iran, in Pakistan and in North Korea - quite a lot of loonies to worry about!! I do not think that Iran is any more of a worry than Israel with its unstable minority governments or than the powerful US if the religious right took hold. And the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan show with what little provocation the US will go to war if it perceives it to be in their interests - oil being the key. How much, for instance, could the US benefit from Iranian oil supplies or from a strategic position amongst the oil producing nations? The expansionists behind PNAC are still there - they pushed Bush into Iraq and could push another president into another war, though hopefully not this one.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/sta...

I agree that nuclear power has an important role to play but it is important that we recognise what its offshoots can get us into.

But perhaps this is getting too political already!!!

Politics is fine as long as you use the same principles as talking about conflicting scientific ideas or indeed faith. Talk evidence and reason and be prepared to respectfully disagree. :-)

However, I do agree with much of what you wrote, including my mistrust of the religious loons of the US let alone anyone else. Especially stuff like PNAC.

However, I am not willing to condemn any move against Iran, I'd just rather it be the last resort and wait for reasonable international support first.

'Jaw jaw not war war' Gary.

Madge, yes, Scott, Hell yes...

Good article on the election and gay rights:-

'Gay rights have inertia, not momentum, on their side: the effort it takes to convince someone to oppress someone else has become greater than the effort needed to maintain the status quo.'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfr...

MadgeUK wrote: "Good article on the election and gay rights:-

'Gay rights have inertia, not momentum, on their side: the effort it takes to convince someone to oppress someone else has become greater than the eff..."

Also, kids. The kids these days seem to understand that The Gay isn't contagious and are more accepting. Even young evangelical christians are getting in on this, with nearly half favoring gay marriage.

Yes, youngsters today are much more tolerant than their parents/grandparents in many ways - thank goodness.

Some Japanese believe that your blood type determines your personality:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20...

It reminds me of the pseudo science of phrenology which was popular in the Vrictorian era.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/1...
Lies damn lies and etc etc
Interesting (read the whole article though).
A tongue in cheek look at how stats can be interpreted.

Yes, you do need to be wary of statistics, especially those with small, unrepresentative samples.

I will be quoting it often though to justify chocolate consumption...even if it's pish.
:)

'A crash victim thought to have been in a vegetative state for more than a decade has used the power of thought to tell scientists he is not in pain.'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/201...

I wonder if they will ask him if he would like to die or if they think it is more important to keep him alive for the experiment?

Wow, that's very interesting. Makes me wonder. I had an uncle who was in a coma, and then a "vegetative" state for... I want to say around ten years? Perhaps he was more aware than anyone thought.

Think of all the conversations people have had right in front of people in this condition. Hard to imagine what kinds of things they would have overheard.

A really beautiful film I enjoyed that touched upon some of the frustrations of being trapped inside one's own body was 'The Diving Bell and the Butterfly'.

On a more positive note, perhaps scientists will be able to combine this discovery with the following:

http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/16/bra...

and this:

http://www.popsci.com/science/article...

I wonder if the human mind could be kept alive and functioning after the rest of the body died, and functional using these technologies...then I remembered Krang. Yikes...

David wrote: "A really beautiful film I enjoyed that touched upon some of the frustrations of being trapped inside one's own body was 'The Diving Bell and the Butterfly'."

Yes, I love that film!

Do you think this lifestyle could catch on?!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20...

Admirable, but not likely and perhaps not necessary. If this works, a lot of things become possible.

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/...

http://www.gizmag.com/tesla-superchar...

And looking more feasible because of this:
http://ca.gizmodo.com/5893120/the-ion...

As a side note, I'm working on a kind of political 'white paper' that includes something of a variation on Mujica's idea. Current working title 'A few Radical Ideas' -- although I'm thinking of changing it to 'A Pragmatic Future' as some people start foaming at the mouth and looking under their beds when they hear the word 'Radical' -- ;)

I look forward to seeing it in my PM box:)

We already have quite a few electric cars on the road here but Americans do far longer distances of course. There are even more in Italy and at least one town in Switzerland, Zermatt, at the foot of the Matterhorn, does not allow anything but electric vehicles in the town - beautiful, peaceful, quiet place.

http://www.zermatt.ch/en/page.cfm/zer...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lyehock/...

;) Will gladly send it along.

I think the 'game changer' with Tesla is the solar-powered totally $ free charging stations. Once that network is built, I hope they put out an economy car and large trucks, which would respectively mean mobility on the cheap for everyone and a drastic drop in the price of transporting goods, thus the costs of goods as well, which have skyrocketed with the price of oil over the past couple years...well, except for bread, that's the same price...but the loaves are noticeably shorter.
Oh, what a world. :)

Happy Thanksgiving to all American A&Sers! I hope there isn't too much 'thanking the Lord' around the dinner table!

MadgeUK wrote: "Happy Thanksgiving to all American A&Sers! I hope there isn't too much 'thanking the Lord' around the dinner table!"

Well I often thank my creator... I say thank f--- for that!

LOL.

Here's a video of an interesting take on a near death experience:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video...

That was good.

Folks might be interested in this 360o panorama from the top of our new tallest building, The Shard:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesig...

I had the most SPLENDIFEROUS 80th birthday yesterday! First, my elder daughter and younger son took me to the MARVELLOUS Ice Age Exhibition at the British Museum, where everything was older than I was:). Then for tea at the LUXURIOUS venue of the Palm Court Restaurant, Langham's Hotel in the West End where, SURPRISE SURPRISE, not only were my other two children and six grandchildren waiting but a whole gang of other friends and former colleagues, several of whom I had not seen for years and years!!!

http://www.britishmuseum.org/whats_on...

http://www.palm-court.co.uk/#/afterno...

And today, another present, a new black cat, two year old Lucy, is being delivered from a nearby Rescue Centre.

http://www.woodgreen.org.uk/rehome/ca...

Glad to hear it. Cool cat too.

The woodgreen link takes you to the main page (not your fault, it's something to do with their site) but if anyone wants to see Lucy, click 'Cat Rehoming' and Lucy can be found on page 3 (a page 3 girl, no less!)

Anyway, congrats. Happy 80th.

Thanks David. Does this link work - they may have taken her off their website now as she is now mine:)

http://www.woodgreen.org.uk/rehome/ca...

She's still on the site but the link doesn't pull up her listing directly...it's an issue on their side, part of how they've designed their site...but you can still find her by following the steps I mentioned.

Her status has been updated too. :)

This link to the picture on their site will probably come down shortly, but I'll post it for now.

[image error]

Strange, it pulls it up for me from that link. Must be UK only. Nice pic, thanks:) She was very affectionate when I went to view her on Thursday so I am looking forward to renewing our acquaintance today. I don't know how to copy and paste a photo here?

If anyone is interested in Tai Chi, my son has just published this little book on Amazon. He is a well qualified teacher (Dan) of Chinese Martial Arts:-

http://www.amazon.com/Internal-Exerci...

Congratulations on your 80th MadgeUK, I'm glad you had such a nice day! The Ice Age exhibition looks fascinating - I was thinking of going down to see it, and I see there is some overlap with the the one on Pompeii..

I hope your lovely new friend settles in well - she looks gorgeous!

Dear friends, acquaintances, and other visitors;

I am leaving all groups on Goodreads and erasing my booklist (no doubt the NSA will keep a copy). It has been a wonderful experience chatting with everyone on a variety of topics, some contentious, some mundane, some exploratory, some just for fun. Lots of interesting people, vibrant conversations, heated debates and intellectual stimulation, to be sure. You will all be missed.

Even Rod, who I often found irritating and may disagree with on many points, presents an interesting perspective as part of a community of minds in what is the ongoing discussion, that discussion, I believe to be integral to democracy itself. I will miss his antics and pot-stirring, not because I enjoyed them particularly, but because that is part of inclusion, that a person be allowed to speak freely, and the points they present, whatever the may be, discussed and debated, at least heard, even in opposition. Sorry to single you out in a seemingly negative way, Rod, but whether I agree with you or not, and sometimes wanted you to go away, I would never want for you to be silenced, for it would go against basic principles, which I hold dear.

A seeming contradiction, my own silence is in simple protest, since the thing that is most valuable to the world of social networking is social networking itself. If the Internet, which was once heralded as a means for the free exchange of information and ideas, is to be treated as a marketing and surveillance tool, then I will respond in kind and use it for business purposes only.

For the record, I do not leave these threads out of fear of any action by authority, for I am not and have never been involved in any kind of terrorism, nor would I ever wish to be, as I value humanity and treasure human life and liberty and consider them integral to one another. I will also not remove my back posts on these threads. These lively conversations represent my communicating in good faith and understanding that we are all learning and figuring out things as we go, in context. However, I do not support the informational collusion between government and these private companies in terms of how they are and can be used to create pictures of who we are as individuals. A profile or history of comments on a website is merely an aspect of a person, and does not give a true context of a person. It is unfortunate that it may be regarded as such by some, and I do not have any faith at this time in our various legislators that they will not, at some point in the near or distant future, re-purpose their apparatus to sociological or political means.

A person's speech, their movements in this world, who are their friends, acquaintances or random people who have 'friended' them on the Internet, those things are none of the government's business outside of the very specific and strictly defined search for those who might engage in acts of violent terrorism. Watch for such terms to perhaps also be redefined in the days to come. Goalposts can be and often are moved and the terms of today can be redefined through repetition, creating false or misleading interpretations in the future of things said in the past.

Without context, words lose their meaning, reduced to search terms, a binary, an algorithm, and a rating applied, according to who knows what criterion.

All the best to you and I wish you all a benevolent future.

Sincerest regards.

Very sorry to hear you feel this way David, although I sympathise with your p.o.v. Your intelligent and wise contributions will be missed.

I'm gonna miss you David!

If you haven't already, check out rightwingwatch.org and au.org ...interesting stuff!

Hilarious!

Hello. I am me. Hi. I live in England (Whoop) and am a thorough atheist. I have (at least partially) made it my hobby to show people who have little faith why they should have no faith. I don't bother the devout. They're generally idiotic and close-minded.

Hi, I'm Adrian. I've been an Atheist for years. I agree with leaving the devout alone, some people aren't really worth the fight. besides, I try not to proselytize but that has something to do with me being the southern USA where I wouldn't get anywhere anyway.

Hi I'm Jan. 57 years a Bible believing church attending praying Christian who went on a search for truth and at the age of 58 became an atheist much to the dismay of siblings who are still in shock. Fortunately my husband came to a similar conclusion at around the same time.
A big hello to Madge! Yes it's me.....so don't give up on the devout....some of us retain sufficient critical thinking ability to overcome many years of indoctrination.
Reactions of mainly Christian friends and family are very interesting to say the least.

Hi Jan - nice to see you here!

Thanks Madge. Greetings to you and the family. I posted a bit more on the introductions thread...I didn't spot it at first.

Has anyone downloaded the GR app? I put it on my tablet a couple of weeks ago but have found it unsatisfactory so uninstalled it today. When posting comments you cannot edit, delete or flag and when notified of a comment you have to scroll through the entire, sometimes lengthy, thread to get to it. I found the inability to edit infuriating as on my small tablet keyboard I make lots of errors and I also have a lot of afterthoughts so often return to my posts to add things. How have others found it? I think it needs to go back to the drawing board.

Madge wrote: "Has anyone downloaded the GR app? I put it on my tablet a couple of weeks ago but have found it unsatisfactory so uninstalled it today. When posting comments you cannot edit, delete or flag and whe..."

I have the app on my iPhone and iPad. The app is not very good, the only one redeeming value is the notification feature. I use the app for quick postings and updates of books I read. Usually when I get a notification I use the web browser and not the app. Also I tend to block all emails from Goodreads because it can fill up the mailbox rapidly. Where I can remove all notifications with a single click.

I get notifications by email either way Mickey, on my tablet and on my phone. If you click on the 'Read the comment' link it takes you straight to the thread but in the browser it takes you to the last comment, as now. One of my groups often runs into 20+ pages and I didn't fancy scrolling through them all, as the app makes you do. Silly error!