St. Francis of Assissi > Likes and Comments

This is the buddy read thread for St. Francis of Assissi by G.K. Chesterton to begin December 22, 2025.

Sara wrote: "This is the buddy read thread for St. Francis of Assissi by G.K. Chesterton to begin December 22, 2025."

Thank you Sara!

Nice, and thanks! . I wondered when this was going to start. I have my Kindle edition ready and look forward to this one. Thanks Greg for suggesting and recommending.

I think it can be flexible for the start time Franky, but I'm going to start on December 23rd. I don't think spoilers will be too big a concern for this one.

I will also join in. I have often heard of St. Francis of Assissi being mentioned, but I don't know much about him!

Austin wrote: "I will also join in. I have often heard of St. Francis of Assissi being mentioned, but I don't know much about him!"

You're very welcome Austin! I don't know too much either, other than some tidbits that I have picked up from other people in casual conversations. I'm looking forward to finding out more!

I'm planning to start this one tomorrow. I took a sneak peek at the first introductory section "1. The Problem of St. Francis" when I got my copy from the library, and it looks like there will be lots for me to love in this book. I'm really intrigued to see where Chesterton goes!

Does anyone have a preference in regards to spoilers? Personally, for a book of non-fiction like this, I'm not too worried about having details of his life spoiled for me in advance. But we can definitely use spoiler tags if anyone prefers that. Let me know if anyone would prefer that, and I'll put my comments under spoilers based on chapter!

If not, I'll read the first few short sections tomorrow and post some thoughts on those tomorrow night. Everyone else is of course very welcome (and encouraged!) to post whatever they like of their own thoughts. No worries if anyone gets ahead and posts on that or falls a little behind and posts later. It's a short book, and I think we all can just post as we go.

I've been very much looking forward to this read!

I will be reading with you.

Sam wrote: "I will be reading with you."

Great Sam! You are very welcome!!

I'm going to start this either tonight or tomorrow (depending on how busy my tomorrow looks). I'm so glad to see that your library has this book, Greg!

Personally, I dislike spoilers. I usually post the chapter at the top of my post and then my comments, so if others see the chapter, they can say, "Oh, I haven't read that chapter yet," and not read my comments until they do. Like this:

Chapter 2:

Chesterton says "Blah, blah, blah ....."

Does that make sense?

Sam wrote: "I will be reading with you."

Yay!!

Cleo wrote: "Personally, I dislike spoilers. I usually post the chapter at the top of my post and then my comments, so if others see the chapter, they can say, "Oh, I haven't read that chapter yet," and not read my comments until they do."

I like this approach Cleo, and I think it's a good approach for us to follow! I'll do that.

I know bits and pieces about St Francis but have no in-depth understanding. Knowing Chesterson, he will have much to say! I will either start late tonight or tomorrow afternoon.

I went to a Catholic school and the patron saint of that school and the church parish was St.Francis, so I have some background , but it's been awhile. I started a little early, up to about chapter 4 and enjoying it so far. There are some stories in here that I wasn't aware of about Francis. Looking forward to the discussion and everyone's thoughts.

Franky wrote: "I went to a Catholic school and the patron saint of that school and the church parish was St.Francis, so I have some background , but it's been awhile. I started a little early, up to about chapter..."

A Catholic school and St. Francis was your patron saint?! You may have some valuable insight for us. I'm not Catholic but I took some courses at a Catholic college just to understand it better. It was very enlightening!

I am joining this read too . I've never read G.K. Chesterton before , so looking forward to this introduction and the elucidating comments by my fellow readers !
Cleo and Greg : I agree with Cleo's suggestion about not needing to put spoiler tags , but rather to just mention the chapter number .
Austin : Meeting you in a book thread after a long while ! Looking forward to your comments!

I like Cleo's idea of just putting the chapter number on the comments too. I'm looking forward to our read.

Hi Savita and Connie! Gosh, there is so many of us. This is going to be extra fun!

I agree with the idea of chapter spoilers as well. Great idea !

Cleo wrote: "Hi Savita and Connie! Gosh, there is so many of us. This is going to be extra fun!"

Hi , Cleo ! 😊

I read the first two chapters which are pretty much background material. I do love the way Chesterton writes. I do not know everyone's background but if you don't know much about Saint Francis, you might want to catch up on the facts because Chesterton presumes the reader has some knowledge. Goodreads is giving me trouble so I am done for the day.

Hi, I will be reading with you also. I have been wanting to read something by Chesterton. I’ve read 1st chapter and am looking forward to this buddy read.

Marti wrote: "Hi, I will be reading with you also. I have been wanting to read something by Chesterton. I’ve read 1st chapter and am looking forward to this buddy read."

Hello and welcome Marti!

Chapters 1-2:

Like Sam, I read the first two chapters today, and I'll post my detailed thoughts later.

In a nutshell, I loved the first chapter.

But I thought the second chapter mostly reflected Chesterton's personal historical view; like any broad overarching attempt to encapsulate all of history in one single sweep, this chapter doesn't really hold together well for me.

I liked the first two chapters. I do , agree, though that Chesterton is giving his own theories and takes, like Greg mentions. I like how he is laying the groundwork for Francis' story by giving proper historical context into this time period as far as religion and his take on writing biographies in general. It feels very philosophical in tone, but I think he is reflecting.

I like these quotes:
"...into what sort of world St. Francis entered and what has been the history of that world, at least so far as it affected him."

"While it was yet twilight a figure appeared silently and suddenly on a little hill above the city, dark against the fading darkness. For it was the end of a long and stern night, a night of vigil, not unvisited by stars. He stood with his hands lifted, as in so many statues and pictures, and about him was a burst of birds singing; and behind him was the break of day."

Franky wrote: "I liked the first two chapters. I do , agree, though that Chesterton is giving his own theories and takes, like Greg mentions. I like how he is laying the groundwork for Francis' story by giving pr..."

That last quote you mentioned struck me too Franky. Chesterton writes lyrically and beautifully, and that shines through even in this non-fiction in places

ok, and here's my more detailed thoughts on Chapters 1-2:

Chapter 1:

I loved this chapter.

The tidbits he shares of St. Francis' life are fascinating. I'm hoping later that we hear a little more of events like him interceding with the emperor for the birds and him trying to end the Crusades by talking to the Saracens!

Also, I like this point that it is precisely St. Francis' grounding in Christian mysticism that makes these things possible, that he is motivated not by theories or theologies but by a "love affair" . . . not a lover of "humanity" in the abstract but actual men, not a lover of Christianity as an theology or idea but of Christ.

I also find it fascinating how Chesterton says that things that appeared to him "dark and barbarous from the outside" now appear "lucid and enlightened . . . from the inside." It would be interesting to hear about this in more detail to know exactly what he means.

Chapter 2:

This is a fascinating chapter, and I do agree with some of what he says here. The problem for me is that I feel he draws conclusions that are way too broad.

Yes, the Romans and Greeks had customs that we would nowadays consider barbarous; that I think is somewhat true. And sexuality for the Romans in particular became oddly entwined with power and hierarchy in deeply unhealthy ways. But Chesterton draws the conclusion that all of this is somehow a natural conclusion of what he calls "nature worship."

"The immediate effect of saluting the sun and the sunny sanity of nature was a perversion spreading like a pestilence."

Well, it's not possible for him to be clear than that. I'm not an animist, and at first it sounds good, but is this really a reasonable conclusion? What about all of the other animist cultures outside of the traditional West that never descended into sexual chaos and disorder? For example, not all native peoples lived peacefully, but there were definitely some peoples (particularly Island peoples) who had completely animist religions who were almost completely peaceful and cooperative. So, is it really true that the immediate effect of sun worship is a chaos of perversion and pestilence?

It seems to me that Roman and Greek world might have had an altogether different problem than nature worship, one based in perverse power structures. And why does Chesterton say the Romans have a more "decent tradition" than the Greeks, when the Romans engaged in more barbarous behavior as a whole? Did the Greek world birth Nero? Did the Greeks claim that their leaders or emperors were actual gods?

I'm not a classical scholar, and I'm not at all qualified to go down this rabbit hole. It just seems to me that Chesterton is painting with a really broad brush here, and he is looking at things from a very Western angle that misses a lot historically. This isn't really Chesterton's fault. I'm just not sure that anyone, no matter how intelligent, would have enough learning to paint a history of the Western World in broad strokes in 20 pages that isn't full of contradictions and major problems!

There were similar issues in Chesterton's treatment of slavery in this chapter. He didn't have the benefit of knowing what Christian nations would later be doing to support slavery; so of course, he can't be responsible for that. But it's kind of the point. His brush strokes are just too broad.

I thought he did have some great points in this chapter though. I like how he talks about how reporters and historians often only highlight the end of the story. The Inquisition did not spontaneously exist; there was a history that caused it to happen, and there were reasons that people did it, however flawed those might have been. It's useful to know the backstory. And I liked his pointing out Pope Gregory's reasoning for requiring celibacy. Also, I found his idea interesting, that after Greek and Roman excesses that the Western world might have needed a dose of asceticism to break itself out of those and to forge a different path. Maybe so.

I don't disagree with him on everything; I just think that he overgeneralizes in this chapter, and he draws too many conclusions too broadly in a way that puts me off.

As Franky says, the writing itself is beautiful though, and there are moments of inspiration. But personally, I'm looking forward to the next chapter, when I'm guessing the focus will go back to Saint Francis. :)

I have finished the first chapter. It's very profound and requires concentrated reading. I am glad the author has chosen the third option to give the readers a better understanding of St.Francis . It seems , to me , the most realistic and mature approach. Certainly I, now , wish to know more about St Francis.
More thoughts on this chapter soon .

Savita wrote: "I have finished the first chapter. It's very profound and requires concentrated reading. I am glad the author has chosen the third option to give the readers a better understanding of St.Francis . ..."

I am also glad for the third option Savita!

Chapter 1

Chesterton uses Renan and Matthew Arnold as a critique to show us an incomplete understanding of Saint Francis. Arnold was pretty much an agnostic and Renan wrote a Life of Jesus, but he wrote it as if Jesus was simply a good teacher and wonderful human being. So Chesterton points out that these men can only go so far, and in fact are only willing to go so far, into Saint Francis' life and works, and are unable to appreciate or delve into the spiritual aspect of them.

Greg, mentioned where Chesterton says that Saint Francis was not a lover of humanity, but a lover of man (which he says is opposite of a philanthopist --- interesting ....) It puts me in mind of the Dostoyevsky quote in The Brothers Karamazov, "The more I love humanity in general the less I love man in particular. In my dreams, I often make plans for the service of humanity, and perhaps I might actually face crucifixion if it were suddenly necessary. Yet I am incapable of living in the same room with anyone for two days together. I know from experience. As soon as anyone is near me, his personality disturbs me and restricts my freedom. In twenty-four hours I begin to hate the best of men: one because he’s too long over his dinner, another because he has a cold and keeps on blowing his nose. I become hostile to people the moment they come close to me. But it has always happened that the more I hate men individually the more I love humanity.” Must be a philanthropist, lol!

It seems to me in this chapter, Chesterton is laying a foundation that will help the non-believers, or perhaps even conservative Christians, better understand St. Francis. St. Francis does not follow a theology of theory or philosophy, but more a religion of mysticism and romance. Chesterton is preparing the way and encouraging us to open our minds so we don't just encounter a simple man who loves nature and animals but one who has encountered God in a way that is truly unique. I'm interested to read more!

Here is a quote from Chesterton which perhaps applies to Chapter 2 (at least, what I’ve read so far) with regard to Chesterton’s view of true historians:

”To anyone with a general view of history, the really remarkable and interesting thing is the toleration of the last Pagans by the first Christians. The Church certainly never swept away all record of the ancient gods as Mahomet swept away the ancient idols. It never merely burned books as the Iconoclasts destroyed statues. The attitude of Augustine toward Plato, as of Aquinas toward Aristotle, is really much more respectful and understanding than the attitude of Hobbes or Hume towards Aquinas. In short, Christians have always committed countless crimes; but these Christians did not commit this one crime. They were not unhistorical.”
-G. K. Chesterton, The Winter Feast

Greg wrote: "But Chesterton draws the conclusion that all of this is somehow a natural conclusion of what he calls "nature worship."..."

(Chapter 2)

I think what Chesterton is trying to say is that nature-worship is a distortion of God and from that distortion come consequences. You're right, in that it would be nice if he explained more how he thinks these consequences came about. But perhaps he thinks they're implicit. I confess that I'm drawing off some of C.S. Lewis' works with my guess. I know Lewis much better than Chesterton, but I could see them having the same viewpoints.

I also think what corrupted the Greeks, Romans, etc. in addition to their paganism was the complexity of their societies. Chesterton sort of alludes to this when he contrasts them to the simplicity of Saint Francis.

With regard to slavery, from what I read, I don't believe that Chesterton was saying that every Christian agreed with the ending of slavery, only that it was the church who spearheaded its eventual demise in many countries. He mentions priests, but William Wilberforce's work produced a ban on trans-Atlantic slavery in the very early 1800s, so any trafficking after that would have been illegal.

Yes, Pope Gregory's reasoning for celibacy was enlightening, wasn't it. It seems to be human nature that if something swings too far one way, then it swings wildly back again to an opposite extreme. As humans we find it difficult to keep a balance.

One thing Chesterton has done in this chapter is to make me realize my deficiencies in history, such as the Crusades and the Dark Ages. One must have a never-ending reading schedule! 📚

Cleo wrote: "It puts me in mind of the Dostoyevsky quote in The Brothers Karamazov, "The more I love humanity in general the less I love man in particular.."

This is a great post Cleo, and it seems to me that this Dostoyevsky quote is exactly what Chesterton means to say! Of course it is very possible to try to love humanity as a whole without actually loving particular people, which is not very useful or good. But I think maybe it is also possible to love both human beings in particular as well as humanity as a whole at the same time?

In my personal experience, I don't feel like I hate humanity in general, and yet I do definitely deeply love particular people . . . so I guess in my particular case, I don't fit Dostoyevsky's idea. In fact, in my personal experience, the more negatively I feel about humanity as a whole, the more grumpy I feel, and being grumpy makes me less tolerant of particular people. But I guess maybe for Dostoyevsky and Chesterton it worked the opposite way? I guess for them, hating humanity as a whole made them more tolerant of individual human flaws since they expected those imperfections? It's so different from my own personal experience that it's hard for me to understand, but I completely believe that this was their honest experience. I wonder if this is common or if more people feel the opposite way in their personal experience like I do?

Cleo wrote: "I think what Chesterton is trying to say is that nature-worship is a distortion of God and from that distortion come consequences.."

I agree that this is what Chesterton is trying to say. He says that this causes "perversion . . . spreading like pestilence."

But it just seems to me that this can't always be true because there are many nature worshipping societies in the world that never had any of the problems that Chesterton describes. So it can't be true that nature worshipping always causes all these perversions.

It feels to me like Chesterton is starting with his theological beliefs, and he is trying to make historical facts fit those beliefs. Sometimes it fits, but other times it just doesn't fit. For that reason, my experience of chapter 2 was a little rocky.

Chapters 3-4:

I enjoyed these chapters very much . . . very glad to have the focus back on Saint Francis!

It's interesting these stories of his early life. I liked hearing of the way that Saint Francis was just as gracious with the enemies of Assisi during the war between city states as he was with the citizens of Assisi. And I liked Chesterton's thoughts about Saint Francis' speed or rashness as well as his showing of a much greater courage in throwing his arms around the leper than even the courage required in war.

He seems like a man of unusually strong character, with his carrying the rocks to rebuild the church himself and his forming of the leper colony with his two friends.

Cleo , Greg : commenting on the above posts ( Chapters 1 and 2 ) though I have , as yet , read chapter 1 only :
The blurb posted by Franky included the following lines : He was a great paradoxical figure , a man who loved women but vowed himself to chastity , an artist who loved the pleasures of the natural world, but vowed himself to austere poverty ........ While reading chapter 1 , I presumed that when the author mentions in chapter 1 , especially at the end .. ... treading on grounds where angels would fear to tread ?... the author means daring to understand and analyze the.. .. dark , remote .. aspect of St. Francis, an aspect from which Renan and others hurried away from because of poverty in understanding ??

Msg cont'd below ⬇️

Msg 35 continued: Regarding love for humanity versus love for individuals only , I agree with Greg's thoughts . I feel that a person who gets repulsed by all those close to him / her , sounds too intolerant, something that could improve by counseling. And , that such an individual can , however, be a lover of humanity is difficult to understand.
We are just human beings down here on earth , often erring, yet seeking the correct path . Instead of scorning and being intolerant of other people 's faults , why not take up Ralph Emerson 's beautiful suggestion: Treat a man as he is , and he remains as he is ; Treat a man as he could be, and he will become what he should be. 🤔🕯 And , the other saying, why not Dare to Care ! .
Greg , in a post in the Fahrenheit 451 thread , had posted similar thoughts ( to the Ralph Emerson quote ) , but expressed in his own way . It sounds a better way forward.
And , regarding being able to love a few individuals, but not humanity as a whole ... well , I don't know , this also doesn't seem right to me . We're really not so bad , mostly. I don't think St.Francis didn't love humanity. Maybe I am not getting right what the author is trying to say . Things will clear up in the upcoming chapters. This book definitely makes you stop and think often .

I am enjoying it too and loved the story about the leper and Francis' reaction of going back and finding him. It feels like Chesterton has some diversions in his thoughts, but I like it best when he just focuses on Francis' stories and impacts. I also like he was so gracious and kind to even his enemies.

An after thought to the above comments on Chapters 1 and 2 : G.K.Chesterton may be new to me , but I need no introduction to F.Dostoevsky . His Crime and Punishment is a powerful , poignant book with a most beautiful, reassuring end . When F Dostoevsky is saying something, it cannot actually be dismissed without unease. Russian authors are unafraid to put forward perfectly disillusioned, bald , unmitigated facts / truths about life and human behavior... that may make the reader wince and at first deny in dismay 🤔 . But these lessons by Russian authors ( grim , daringly honest and courageous) if imbibed / admixed / complemented with the light of optimism ( also based on genuine reasons) could serve as a wholesome pathlighter , much more easily, readily and cheerfully accepted by the floundering travelers trying to find a way out of this perplexing labyrinth of life 🤔.. 🌑⚫🌥🌤🌞🌅 .
In the following msg I will attempt to illustrate these thoughts by juxtapositioning an assortment of facts / sayings / examples which when seen as a whole , I hope , will make sense .

1) Familiarity breeds contempt . ✔🌑.. can't deny . But this is what's being pointed out by the F.Dostoevsky quote mentioned by Cleo .
2) But the Ralph Emerson quote I had mentioned above in msg 36 ( about treating a man as he could be .... ) offers a wholesome , healthy approach to improving our human relationships, spreading happiness within our own selves and in the lives of those around us . Or , to put it in other words ....
3) Dare to Care ✔🕯
4) Then , there's Victor Hugo 's story of The Bishop's Silver Candlesticks , which cannot but soften the sternest and most skeptical of hearts .
If humanity is to successfully gain Salvation, we must all go forward together, because we all need each other to get to , and to stay on the correct pathway ... the pathway of love , brotherhood and peace . Wasn't that the message Christ brought to humanity ?

May I wish all the members a Very Merry Christmas and a beautiful New Year to come ! 🔔🕯 🎄💒🎄🕯🔔 God Bless 🙏🤲🙏

Proceeding to chapter 2 , which should not take much time . In the first chapter I had to stop many times to search relevant information on the internet... even to , for example, refesh my mind on the difference in faiths of Catholic and Protestant Christians.

Chapter 4 Francis the Builder

I like this quote when Francis hears a voice calling him to his mission of rebuilding St. Damian's church:
"Francis, seest thou not that my house is in ruins? Go and restore it for me."

Merry Christmas everyone!

Franky wrote: "Chapter 4 Francis the Builder

I like this quote when Francis hears a voice calling him to his mission of rebuilding St. Damian's church:
"Francis, seest thou not that my house is in ruins? Go and..."

I wonder if the Almighty possibly meant , too , beyond St.Damian's church , the Almighty 's earthly home in its entirety ... each home , here on earth , with all its humbleness ...to all its majestic splendors ! For , every home , big or small , ultimately is owned by Heaven. And that's where , too , God lives . May be that was God's command to St.Francis.
A recent G- 20 summit's motto was .. One World , One Family. There's still a lot of grievous conflict ongoing in our world today, but there's , too , a growing wish for peace and brotherhood as is evident from one of the G- 20's recent motto : One World , One Family ... ➡️ One Home .. God's Home , here on earth , which we share with our Heavenly Father .
So , beyond St. Damian's church, God's command would be inclusive of all our homes . Amen ! ⚫🌥🌤🌞🕯🕯🕯🕯🕯.....

Franky wrote: "Chapter 4 Francis the Builder

I like this quote when Francis hears a voice calling him to his mission of rebuilding St. Damian's church:
"Francis, seest thou not that my house is in ruins? Go and..."


Merry Christmas to you and your family, too , Franky ! 🔔🎄🎄🔔

There go my well-laid plans, lol. I just purchased a copy of this. The reading may run into January for me.

Yay , Lynn , most welcome to this deeply thought provoking read !

I have finished. I want to mention that I joined this read for the chance to read more Chesterton, and that was the payoff IMO. The biography is less a biography than an essay by Chesterton on Saint Francis in which he interprets his view of Saint Francis and explains to the readers why he feels Saint Francis and his opinion on the topic are important. So while Chesterton is using Saint Francis as a vehicle, we are mostly getting Chesterton. This is fine with me since I find Chesterton's skill with words enviable. Once again I suggest you read the wikipedia page on Saint Francis if you are not familiar with the details of his life upon which Chesterton expounds. I am not well versed on the subject and had to do some extra reading but still managed to follow what Chesterton discussed. One necessary read is the Francis poem, "The Canticle of the Sun," or "Canticle of the Creatures." I am linking the Wiki article that has the poem in original Umbrian dialect and English Translation. Following that is a well done short inspirational video on the poem which also incorporate biographical details of Saint Francis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canticl...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFTpT...

There are several films on Saint Francis. I am rewatching "Brother Sun, Sister Moon," 1972 by Franco Zeffirelli today to complete this delve into Francis. It is a film biography very rooted in the time the film was made.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMpUL...

Looking forward to seeing how background information, character, and actions--and more--fit together to show us the man.

Greg I have watched that movie Brother Sun, Sister Moon. Very good. Very much a product of its time, yes.

My reading progress is going a bit slow because I am reading 2 books side by side .. The Moon-Spinners and St. Francis of Assisi . Both reads are captivating !
In this read , I've reached half way through chap 2 . It's nice that the author has stopped to furnish background details . Neither Greg, nor Sam appear to be fully happy with this chapter ( for the reasons they've mentioned ) . Sam : Thank you for the references and links posted in msg 47 . I intend to go through these once I have finished chapter 2 ( probably by tomorrow ) .

The author is unapproving of nature worship . Here I disagree . Tomorrow, I will make a brief comment on this ... Hinduism ( major religion in India ) also includes nature worship , but nature worship is only a part of Hinduism, .... while profound religious teachings and directions are given through ancient religious texts like the Gita , the Ramayan , the Upanishads ( from which Somerset Maugham had taken the epigram for his novel The Razor's Edge .. etc . Where nature is worshipped.. that , too , is symbolic ( not superstitions) .. beautiful and inspiring: like the spiritual meaning of the lotus flower , or prayers to the sun god , or considering the cow as a sacred animal ( referred to as Maa , ie , Mother ...... Nature is really just one of the physical footprints of the Almighty. It should not be considered heathen to respect it and draw guiding , divine inspiration from it . [ I will explain the significance of the lotus and the sun tomorrow ( just in brief , so as not to deviate too much from the subject of this thread , but enough to explain my point ) ] .