Human drive: why and what for? > Likes and Comments

Dear Friends,

Human drive seems to be a unique phenomenon that separates us from other animals.

The latter are perfectly restful and content once they got shelter/food/plenty of females; for humans this is definitely not enough.

We need.. hundreds of pairs of shoes! twenty cars; 3 holiday homes; global businesses; three marriages and so on.

Our unquenchable thirst seems to relate to both material and nonmaterial matters; it leads to overuse of resources, and our own misery- for after you've got the said " 3 wives-20 cars-5 global businesses" and you still feel empty inside, where do you go after that...?

I would love to learn what you think- why is evolution putting us through such paces? why did the drive appear as a unique human trait; perhaps there is a hidden purpose we are yet to discover??

Cant wait to hear from you!

:)

Jasmine

Chandler wrote: "Hi Jasmine!

You bring up some fascinating points about the human condition and our relentless pursuit of more. It seems that our drive for material and non-material things goes beyond mere surviva..."

Hi Chandler :))

Thank you for joining in! Yes, you are right, personal growth, spiritual fulfilment definitely sound like the way to go, and yet humanity's efforts to improve, or even, "purify" human nature (within framework of many religions, and otherwise) do not seem to have succeeded very much at all, despite millennia worth of efforts.. are we " missing a trick", somehow??

Please consider looking at the last post within " Human nature, good or bad" thread, its here within the fringe science folder also; I wonder if there is some common route and/or, purpose to both the morals and the drive??

Jasmine

Honestly this "humanity is a virus" narrative has always made me chuckle a little bit. For hundreds of thousands of years mankind has lived in close harmony with nature. We've of course had tools and technology for a long time, but it really wasn't until the industrial revolution and the advent of capitalism that you see such a push for heavy consumption. The ruling class greatly needs us to consume at levels way above our needs in order to prop up the system in the first place. They then have the unmitigated gall to blame the excess consumption on us.

Not to mention things like designing the entire infrastructure of our communities to revolve solely around the car so that we can't even walk or back if we wanted to. I strongly feel that most people don't desire our current way of living, but a trillion dollar proganda system coupled with centuries of gratuitous violence have convinced them otherwise.

Cooper wrote: "Not to mention things like designing the entire infrastructure of our communities to revolve solely around the car so that we can't even walk or back if we wanted to. I strongly feel that most peop..."

Dear Cooper,

Without a doubt, your common sense stance is correct; if most of us could learn to live off the land, with bare necessities of love and compassion being our focus, and not the material things, this will be a much better world.

The problem is- how to "suppress" this drive? I like your expression of it being "a virus" we do not seem to be able to control.

Do you have any ideas.. how we could??

Jasmine

A start would be to overthrow our industrial capitalist system and replace it with something more equitable lol

Cooper wrote: "A start would be to overthrow our industrial capitalist system and replace it with something more equitable lol"

Dear Cooper, I hear you!! But remember when Russian working classes assassinated their royalty in 1917?? Soon enough, despots and dictators emerged from within the very same working classes...along with their billions-worth empires and gigantic scale corruption.

The answer must lie in some unique pursuit that humanity did not try yet, I feel..?? or, perhaps, did try but in some small way, without fully realising that it works?

:)

Jasmine

Reading through this discussion, I can’t help noticing one thing that often gets overlooked: perhaps the reason our drive can never be fully satisfied is because this world was never meant to provide absolute fulfillment.

Even our happiest moments come in waves. Two people fall in love — pure joy, but soon there is “but…” Marriage — happiness, but then “but we need a home.” A home — wonderful, but then “but we need to renovate.” A child — incredible blessing, but then “but I can’t wait till they sleep through the night.” Then “but I can’t wait till they grow.” And so on, endlessly.

There is always another “but.” Always another step, another desire, another restlessness.

Maybe the human drive is not a flaw at all, but a signal — a reminder that perfect, absolute happiness does not belong to this world. Here, fulfillment is always partial, fragile, temporary. The heart seems designed for something beyond this place, and it keeps reaching for it.

So perhaps the real purpose of the drive is not to find perfection here, but to point us toward a higher destination.

— V. Kazmirchuk

I know it was a bit cheeky to say "just do revolution", but in all honesty my true answer is probably somewhere along the lines of what the modern degrowth movement advocates for (I'm a big fan of Jason Hickel and co.). This of course doesn't necessarily involve universal degrowth, since obviously places in the global south will desperately need growth in order to catch up with the north.

However, the real question is basically a social one. How do we get people to become skeptical of a system based on infinite growth and fossil fuels. I really don't have a clue on this one. Things appear to be coming to a head with capitalism, but that most definitely doesn't mean it'll give up without a fight. I did read a fascinating post by John Ganz talking about a theory pertaining to the great stagnation that's been part of our lives since the dawn of the neoliberal era in the mid-1970s (https://www.unpopularfront.news/p/pol...). The premise is that falling profits are part and parcel to our current system and unlikely to be alleviated anytime soon. What this means for our near future is of course impossible to say, but probably doesn't spell joy in the near term.

But as for the broader picture of how to handle consumerist desire, while I do think that getting rid of a multi-billion dollar per year advertising industry should help, we are tool making creatures by nature (some could say it's our defining attribute and the reason for our ascendance). I think redirecting these passions in to sustainability is probably our best hope for any sort of non-miserable future.

Vasyl wrote: "Reading through this discussion, I can’t help noticing one thing that often gets overlooked: perhaps the reason our drive can never be fully satisfied is because this world was never meant to provi..."

Hi Vasyl :)

Universe is made of movement, therefore we are always meant to be at least a little uncomfortable otherwise we'll " stagnate and do nothing"; this is what you are referring to, right?

And I feel in my heart that you are right; us having morals and drive ( the former and the latter being inseparable from each other) does have a meaning, and purpose; I do not believe its an " error" of evolution. I've just copy pasted below my last message from " human nature, good or bad?" thread; please comment what do you think about our drive possibly being necessary to achieve what is described below... :)

"...Let me ask a somewhat controversial question: what if what we call "human frailty" is not frailty at all?

Perhaps from an impartial (universe's point of view, that is), we are meant to have our morals, and our suffering is merely a by product of the latter.

My next question would be- if we are "meant" to have morals, where does this lead humanity in evolutionary sense? To the other planets, perhaps??

I'll explain what I mean. If there is such a thing as civilisation that populates more than one planet, there must have been some very strong incentive to make them leave their first planet in the first place- do you agree?

If our actions make planet Earth unliveable that's a possible incentive.

On the other hand, our morals might, eventually, lead us to becoming peace loving creatures, that co-exist in harmony with other forms of life on Earth. In this case, achieving the latter is akin "to passing a test" humanity needs to pass before becoming part of the galaxy's community of intelligent forms of life, could this be a plan Universe has for us and other intelligent forms of
life?

And yes, I am aware its incorrect to anthropomorphize the actions of the universe, but perhaps, there is a simple explanation? Such as, the space and energy are used most efficiently by every planetary system including a habitable planet? "

:))

Jasmine

Cooper wrote: "I know it was a bit cheeky to say "just do revolution", but in all honesty my true answer is probably somewhere along the lines of what the modern degrowth movement advocates for (I'm a big fan of ..."

Dear Cooper,

You've just hit a nail on its head, in my opinion- we need to redirect our passions! But how...? I am exploring this in my Human Condition series books, but the shortest answer would be a very simple one:

reduce all human drives, wishes and desires to just one.

You know when they conducted a famous experiment, years ago, on some rats ( poor rats!!), where the button was connected to a pleasure centre in their brain. The rats had food and water in their cages yet they all starved to death. They didnt eat, they didnt drink, for they just kept pressing onto the button, 24/7.

Where is that button on a human, I wonder ??

:))

Jasmine

Reading through this discussion, I keep returning to one thought:

Perhaps imperfection is perfection.

There was a famous experiment on mice: when they were given absolutely everything — food, comfort, safety — the colony eventually collapsed.
Not because something was missing, but because nothing was missing.
Without challenge, without striving, life itself began to break down.

Maybe humans are the same.
If the universe wanted beings who feel complete, still, and satisfied, it would create stones — not people.
Our constant sense of “something more” may not be a flaw, but the engine that keeps us moving, loving, growing, creating.

Even our happiest moments come in waves. There is always another “but.” Another step. Another longing.
Maybe this restlessness is not meant to be cured at all — because it is the very thing that keeps our humanity alive.

Perfection might not be a state, but a movement.
And imperfection is what makes that movement possible.

— Vasyl

Vasyl wrote: "Reading through this discussion, I keep returning to one thought:

Perhaps imperfection is perfection.

There was a famous experiment on mice: when they were given absolutely everything — food, com..."

Hi Vasyl,

imperfection, and movement, yes and yes! However, please try and comment on the question I've posed above re possible extra-terrestrial future being the direction of the collective imperfections- your opinion could really help me, as I am a bit stuck on that point in my book- thank you :)

Hi Jasmine :)

Thank you for your question — it’s a fascinating one.

I think our “collective imperfections” can push us in two opposite directions.

On one hand, they might drive us toward an extra-terrestrial future: our restlessness, curiosity and inability to be fully satisfied with what we have will always make some of us look at the sky and say, “There must be more.” In that sense, our flaws and longings become the fuel that sends us beyond this planet.

On the other hand, if we go to other worlds without changing inwardly, we may simply export the same broken patterns — greed, domination, carelessness — to a larger stage. Then space travel is not an evolution of our imperfections, but an expansion of them.

So maybe the “test” is this:
can we let our imperfections push us to grow morally and spiritually before they push us to the stars?

If we learn to carry responsibility, compassion and self-restraint, then an extra-terrestrial future could be a beautiful extension of our story, not an escape from our failures.

That’s how I currently see it — very curious how you’ll use this in your book :)

— Vasyl

Dr. wrote: "Vasyl wrote: "Reading through this discussion, I keep returning to one thought:

Perhaps imperfection is perfection.

There was a famous experiment on mice: when they were given absolutely everythi..."

Dear Vasyl, you are sweetheart (hugs!!) You have basically just summarised exactly what I have worked out ( great minds think alike? :))

My book considers solving humanity's main problems and also offers " a map" for humanity evolution from 3 points of view- metaphysical, scientific and human; with insights from arts and religions and folklore too! It all seems to fit, but a very long road to reach perfection :)

You literally made my day, Vasyl- it feels like I am definitely on a right track- back to writing :))

Jasmine

Dear Jasmine,

Your message truly warmed my heart — thank you.
It’s amazing to see how your work weaves together metaphysics, science, and the human experience into one bigger picture. And honestly, the fact that our thoughts aligned so naturally feels less like coincidence and more like the kind of resonance that happens when two people look at the same question from different angles but with the same sincerity.

I’m glad my reflections could support you in your writing today.
Please keep going — the world always needs voices that try to understand rather than judge, to integrate rather than divide.

Wishing you clarity and inspiration as you continue forward :)

— Vasyl

Dear Jasmine, Vasyl, and everyone contributing to this beautiful thread,

Reading through your reflections has felt like witnessing a constellation forming—each thought a star, distant yet connected, illuminating the same vast question from a different angle.

Jasmine, your inquiry about whether humanity’s moral evolution might be guiding us toward an extraterrestrial future touches on something both ancient and prophetic. Civilizations have always looked to the sky when the ground beneath them felt too small. Whether this impulse arises from collective imperfection, spiritual restlessness, or an evolutionary necessity, it reveals something essential:
humanity grows by leaning toward the unknown.

Vasyl, your insight that imperfection may be the very engine of our movement resonates deeply with me. If perfection were a static state, perhaps life would have settled into silence long ago. But our cracks, our contradictions, our longing for “more”—these may be the currents that keep consciousness from becoming stagnant.

If we imagine a future among the stars, perhaps the real question is not whether we will get there, but who we will be when we arrive.
Will we carry our unresolved shadows into new worlds, or will moral awareness reshape us into beings capable of coexistence rather than conquest?

Maybe the “test,” as you beautifully phrased it, is learning to refine our inner landscapes before expanding our outer one. After all, a civilization that has not learned harmony on its own soil may struggle to plant anything other than its own fractures elsewhere.

For me, this whole dialogue reflects something I deeply believe as a writer:
our imperfections are not obstacles to transcendence; they are the very material from which transcendence is shaped.

Thank you both—and everyone here—for offering thoughts that feel less like debate and more like shared exploration. Conversations like this remind me that curiosity may be humanity’s most honest form of hope.

Warm regards,
Raphaël Zéla

Raphaël wrote: "Dear Jasmine, Vasyl, and everyone contributing to this beautiful thread,

Reading through your reflections has felt like witnessing a constellation forming—each thought a star, distant yet connecte..."

Hi Raphael :)

Thank you for your beautiful summary, and it feels great being part of the constellation, also :))

I'd like you to comment further on your thought of " moral awareness might reshape us", I agree this is a big part of spiritual growth. But I also wonder if " intellectual, or brain awareness" is just as important?

Here is what I mean. Most humans understand "the right thing" with their heart, but its a feeling that is often intangible. On the other hand, you might speak to someone or read a book and , SUDDENLY! the evasive feeling becomes a thought, you recognise it. At that point, you can act on it; its much easier to act on a thought, than to act on a vague feeling, right?

So may be its not just heart, ie " moral awareness", but also brain, or " intellectual awareness" that is required; both of them, perhaps? Even though heart seems to command the brain and not vice versa :)) I really love knowing this! Here is the science source in case someone is interested in this subject :

"The heart appeared to be sending meaningful messages to the brain that it not only understood, but also obeyed".

- professor Mohamed Omar Salem (21st century British and Qatar psychiatrist)

https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/defaul...

Hi Jasmine,

Thank you for such a thoughtful expansion of the idea — you always manage to illuminate a nuance that was quietly waiting to be seen.

I agree with you: moral awareness often begins as an indistinct pulse in the heart, a kind of inner resonance that tells us something matters, even if we cannot yet articulate why. But as you beautifully pointed out, this resonance can remain for years without becoming action—until the mind names it.

Perhaps what reshapes us is not the heart alone, nor the intellect alone, but the moment they finally recognize each other.

The heart feels the truth first, but the mind gives it form.
The heart urges us toward the right direction, but the mind builds the path.
And maybe growth happens precisely in that meeting point—
where a vague moral intuition becomes a conscious understanding,
and understanding becomes responsibility.

In that sense, emotional awareness and intellectual awareness are not separate realms; they are two halves of the same inner compass. One reveals, the other clarifies. One whispers, the other translates.

I also love your observation about the heart “commanding” the brain. Whether metaphorical or literal, it speaks to something ancient in human experience—the idea that wisdom begins as a feeling long before it becomes a philosophy.

Thank you again for deepening the conversation. Your reflections always open a door to a wider horizon.

Warmly,
Raphaël

Raphaël wrote: "Hi Jasmine,

Thank you for such a thoughtful expansion of the idea — you always manage to illuminate a nuance that was quietly waiting to be seen.

I agree with you: moral awareness often begins as..."

:))

Thank you all for this illuminating discussion and food for thought!

Choyang wrote: "Thank you all for this illuminating discussion and food for thought!"

Dear Choyang,

You are very welcome- feel free to suggest what other topic we should jointly "illuminate" : )))

Jasmine

In my opinion, it is not evolution that puts us in these situations, but the lack of it, more specifically, the lack of inner growth.
Many times if we ask ourselves quietly why, for what, we discover that the decisions made did not belong to us but came as a result of the invisible influence to which we are exposed every day, the desire to belong, to be seen. This desire to be seen manifests itself differently from person to person, and is influenced by many factors, including the financial one that makes us buy many things that we do not necessarily need.

Cristi wrote: "In my opinion, it is not evolution that puts us in these situations, but the lack of it, more specifically, the lack of inner growth.
Many times if we ask ourselves quietly why, for what, we disco..."

Hi Christi :)

Happy New Year :) and thank you for this interesting point of view :)

When you say "desire to be seen", do you mean that each human being wants to be respected and acknowledged? If so, then how do you think the latter might be linked with emotional pain most of us carry?

In a simplistic example, one might want some "retail therapy" to cheer himself up after a stressful day at work; the extreme example, such as "rags to reaches" phenomenon had been long associated with wanting to compensate for childhood of poverty and deprivation.

I am curious to hear your thoughts :)

Jasmine

Cristi wrote: "In my opinion, it is not evolution that puts us in these situations, but the lack of it, more specifically, the lack of inner growth.
Many times if we ask ourselves quietly why, for what, we disco..."



Thank you, a happy new year to you and your loved ones.


The desire to be seen is often connected to the need to buy something you don't really need. That's what I meant. But it can also be associated with respect in some cases when we do it to gain respect in the eyes of others. Although I don't see it as an ideal method of gaining respect, it's everyone's choice that I don't judge. I believe it can be connected to emotional pain. To compensate for the shortcomings we had in childhood? Yes, but in my opinion this usually doesn't lead to excesses. I think in the end it comes down to our mentality, discipline and internal growth. But no matter how disciplined we are, at the end of the day we are human and no one can keep a straight line. We all do what we feel is best for us at every moment of our lives. The decisions we make reflect the capacity we are at that moment.

Cristi wrote: "Cristi wrote: "In my opinion, it is not evolution that puts us in these situations, but the lack of it, more specifically, the lack of inner growth.
Many times if we ask ourselves quietly why, for..."

Hi Christi :)

Yes, its hard for most of us to walk a straight line, it seems :)

I am a family doctor, and in my experience, " discipline and internal growth" are not at all common in general population.. in fact, quite rare.

And did you know-psychologists tell us -that at current stage of human brain development (evolutionary stage that is), its hard for us to think "beyond the short term", therefore, again, you are right- most of us merely " do what is best at every moment"..
and yet making a bit of an effort, and thinking further ahead could improve our lives immeasurably :)

Jasmine