Warwick’s review of Question 7 > Likes and Comments
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Thanks for this cogent discussion. As a historian who also writes fiction, I appreciate your willingness to draw a sharp line, as here: That intellectual duty you bring up, "to recognise what is real and what isn't," strikes me as the essence of both the historian's and the novelist's craft. Even in writing fiction, the world you create, the rules and morality that govern the characters' motivations, must be plausible. A meaningful reality is created.
Well, I agree, Lisa! Flanagan's historical fiction plays very loose with the facts on record, which is by design – part of his project seems to be to question the whole notion of reliable history – but it sometimes feels ‘off’ to me. Then again, when I read Hilary Mantel I feel she sticks too rigorously to what really happened, and find myself longing for aliens to touch down in Tudor London. Somewhere I feel there is a line between intellectual playfulness and some kind of…dereliction of duty.
Warwick wrote: "Somewhere I feel there is a line between intellectual playfulness and some kind of…dereliction of duty."
Oh, absolutely! I love historical fiction that tiptoes right up to the boundary of what actually happened and what might have happened. Pat Barker's Regeneration trilogy comes to mind.
I did find a few whimsical moments in Wolf Hall, such as a scene where Mantel gives a gargoyle's-eye-view of a procession, but I think I did respond to it more as a historian, gleaning insights into the mindset of the age.
A friend of mine, recently retired as a curator at the Huntington Library in San Marino, California, a repository of Tudor-Stuart manuscripts, told me that Mantel was a diligent researcher, spent about a year working there, had many conversations with the head of that division, testing out ideas and interpretations.
I trust him more than you, I think, even when the prose is a little languid or floral; his hits are very much worth the misses.
I agree. But this is only the second of his books I've read, so I'm still adjusting to his qualities I think.
He pops up with essays and features in Australian media and is a very valuable voice in that context; I have not loved his fiction TBH
excellent review, thank you! can you recommend another book in this vein that hits the mark for you? i'm on the hunt for exactly this kind of brain food but don't even know what to call it :-)
This book was a great waste of my time.
Ryandake ...... If you're looking for a book where the profound-sounding sentences actually bear up a little better to inspection, you could try "Any Human Heart" by William Boyd. A very different genre - but that author's opus work, and one not lacking in depth of living.
Great review, Warwick. The things I found most interesting about this book were the connections he makes, which you have summed up so succinctly, and his thinking about time, influenced by the Yolnju fourth tense that leads to s tense of infinite continuity, which I feel as a looping spiral, not the straight line of western time.
Thanks Lyn! Yes I was a bit doubtful about the linguistics there, but I agree, the way he makes connections between those ideas is very inspiring.
Wonderful review but here's a thing - you made me want to read it then you made me not want to read it!
Thanks man. I think you'd get a lot out of it, but then again, I think you might also have more problems with it than I did. That doesn't help, I realise.
I felt everything you wrote but couldn’t articulate those feelings cogently! I felt like all the pieces fell into place as I read your comments. Beautiful review.
I really adore this book. Flanagan is a magnificent essayist, much better than in his novels.
I've only read one of his novels I think, and yes I preferred him here in discursive essayist mode!
Nice review. I also found that Flanagan's hesitation to engage with some of the more objective aspects of history a bit frustrating. You can't hide behind moral ambiguity forever.
Yeah it started to frustrate me slightly. Still, no denying that this is a pretty stimulating investigation into these subjects.
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Lisa
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Jan 11, 2024 10:24AM
Thanks for this cogent discussion. As a historian who also writes fiction, I appreciate your willingness to draw a sharp line, as here: That intellectual duty you bring up, "to recognise what is real and what isn't," strikes me as the essence of both the historian's and the novelist's craft. Even in writing fiction, the world you create, the rules and morality that govern the characters' motivations, must be plausible. A meaningful reality is created.
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Well, I agree, Lisa! Flanagan's historical fiction plays very loose with the facts on record, which is by design – part of his project seems to be to question the whole notion of reliable history – but it sometimes feels ‘off’ to me. Then again, when I read Hilary Mantel I feel she sticks too rigorously to what really happened, and find myself longing for aliens to touch down in Tudor London. Somewhere I feel there is a line between intellectual playfulness and some kind of…dereliction of duty.
Warwick wrote: "Somewhere I feel there is a line between intellectual playfulness and some kind of…dereliction of duty."Oh, absolutely! I love historical fiction that tiptoes right up to the boundary of what actually happened and what might have happened. Pat Barker's Regeneration trilogy comes to mind.
I did find a few whimsical moments in Wolf Hall, such as a scene where Mantel gives a gargoyle's-eye-view of a procession, but I think I did respond to it more as a historian, gleaning insights into the mindset of the age.
A friend of mine, recently retired as a curator at the Huntington Library in San Marino, California, a repository of Tudor-Stuart manuscripts, told me that Mantel was a diligent researcher, spent about a year working there, had many conversations with the head of that division, testing out ideas and interpretations.
I trust him more than you, I think, even when the prose is a little languid or floral; his hits are very much worth the misses.
I agree. But this is only the second of his books I've read, so I'm still adjusting to his qualities I think.
He pops up with essays and features in Australian media and is a very valuable voice in that context; I have not loved his fiction TBH
excellent review, thank you! can you recommend another book in this vein that hits the mark for you? i'm on the hunt for exactly this kind of brain food but don't even know what to call it :-)
This book was a great waste of my time.
Ryandake ...... If you're looking for a book where the profound-sounding sentences actually bear up a little better to inspection, you could try "Any Human Heart" by William Boyd. A very different genre - but that author's opus work, and one not lacking in depth of living.
Great review, Warwick. The things I found most interesting about this book were the connections he makes, which you have summed up so succinctly, and his thinking about time, influenced by the Yolnju fourth tense that leads to s tense of infinite continuity, which I feel as a looping spiral, not the straight line of western time.
Thanks Lyn! Yes I was a bit doubtful about the linguistics there, but I agree, the way he makes connections between those ideas is very inspiring.
Wonderful review but here's a thing - you made me want to read it then you made me not want to read it!
Thanks man. I think you'd get a lot out of it, but then again, I think you might also have more problems with it than I did. That doesn't help, I realise.
I felt everything you wrote but couldn’t articulate those feelings cogently! I felt like all the pieces fell into place as I read your comments. Beautiful review.
I really adore this book. Flanagan is a magnificent essayist, much better than in his novels.
I've only read one of his novels I think, and yes I preferred him here in discursive essayist mode!
Nice review. I also found that Flanagan's hesitation to engage with some of the more objective aspects of history a bit frustrating. You can't hide behind moral ambiguity forever.
Yeah it started to frustrate me slightly. Still, no denying that this is a pretty stimulating investigation into these subjects.
