Meike’s review of The Idiot > Likes and Comments
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Ahh! That bad? :(
nettebuecherkiste wrote: "Ui..."
Sarah wrote: "Ahh! That bad? :("
I simply cannot go on with this: Selin's "problems" are so pretentious and the narrative style is so slow and extensive, it really upsets me. I gave this audiobook around 8 hours of my life, and it gave me nothing in return! :-(
Just read your review and it does sound pretty awful! Might have to give it a miss now.
I am still not sure what you thought of the book Meike. Did you enjoy it.
Sarah wrote: "Just read your review and it does sound pretty awful! Might have to give it a miss now."
I'd like to warn you, though: I read some other reviews, and some people do like this for pretty much the same reasons that I disliked it! Maybe you'll want to check out some other opinions as well. But you're right, I found it pretty awful! :-)
Gumble's Yard wrote: "I am still not sure what you thought of the book Meike. Did you enjoy it."
Haha, I am sorry that I am remaining so vague, Gumble, but I have to protect my reputation as an international woman of mystery! :-)
Trudie wrote: "Awesome"
Don't celebrate my suffering! :-) :-) :-)
Meike, thank you for another excellent review. Now I can use your review as justification for why I abandoned The Idiot after the second or third page.
BTW you might be interested or horrified to know this book is progressing well through The Tournament of Books. There is a detailed essay on why the judge loved it here https://themorningnews.org/tob/2018/w...
Dan wrote: "Meike, thank you for another excellent review. Now I can use your review as justification for why I abandoned The Idiot after the second or third page."
Thank you, Dan! I wish I had abandoned the book after the second or third page as well! :-)
Trudie wrote: "BTW you might be interested or horrified to know this book is progressing well through The Tournament of Books. There is a detailed essay on why the judge loved it here https://themorningnews.org/t..."
You know what's truly crazy? This judge is agreeing with me and repeatedly calls the book pretentious and boring, e.g.: "it’s often dull if not outright tedious; its plot tends to be faint at best" and "I probably found The Idiot so intensely relatable because it’s a book that is willing to risk being boring." What kind of praise is that when you could summarize her review as "Wow, the book is so blasé and boring, it has no plot or message, I respect that!" - seriously??
Haha, yep I know. I guess we are in a universe where up is down and vice versa. What is especially egregious to me is that White Tears is sensational:(
Oh yes, I read your review, and I definitely need to read "White Tears" as well!
Havent read the book but your review is hilarious. excellen!
Mark Hebwood wrote: "Havent read the book but your review is hilarious. excellen!"
Thanks! :-)
Meike. I fear your review has backfired for me. I put the book off to the last of the long list after reading yours and others comments.
But you set my expectations so low that I am now finding it surprisingly enjoyable almost against my will !!
Gumble's Yard wrote: "Meike. I fear your review has backfired for me. I put the book off to the last of the long list after reading yours and others comments. But you set my expectations so low that I am now finding i..."
As I do not enjoy to see you suffer while reading a book, I think this is definitely a good thing! :-) And let's be real, it's hard to hate Batuman's oeuvre more than I do! :-)
I am really sorry and surprised to say that I loved the book
Gumble's Yard wrote: "I am really sorry and surprised to say that I loved the book"
Gumble, I hope you're getting help! :-) :-) :-)
Now I am confused! Two of the people who’s opinions I value with different views. I don’t know what to do! Ok, actually, I know the answer is “read it for yourself and make up your own mind”.
Neil wrote: "Now I am confused! Two of the people who’s opinions I value with different views. I don’t know what to do! Ok, actually, I know the answer is “read it for yourself and make up your own mind”."
Although I really disliked the book, I think it can be a good sign when people find valid reasons for both loving or hating it - at least Batuman evokes strong opinions, that can be a value in itself. I am curious to hear your thoughts, Neil!
I will check whether my library has it. I am not sure I want to spend money on a book when it seems equally likely I will love it or hate it.
Neil wrote: "I will check whether my library has it. I am not sure I want to spend money on a book when it seems equally likely I will love it or hate it."
Please read the new Rachel Cusk instead, I would love to discuss it with you!
Can’t read Kudos until May when it is published. But my local library has a copy of this on the shelf which I have reserved.
Neil - I think your views have coincided far more with Meike than mine recently. Maybe read my review (just posted) and see if it appeals or appals
My confusion is more that my reaction to this book reminded me of that to The Nix - and I can see that someone like Paul who hated that would hate this - but I know Meike was a Nix-lover.
Neil wrote: "Can’t read Kudos until May when it is published. But my local library has a copy of this on the shelf which I have reserved."
Okay - let's see what you make of Batuman's ...äähh...manifesto? :-)
Gumble's Yard wrote: "My confusion is more that my reaction to this book reminded me of that to The Nix - and I can see that someone like Paul who hated that would hate this - but I know Meike was a Nix-lover."
Oh, this is interesting - why did it make you think of your reaction to The Nix? Because you're right, of course: I loved The Nix!
I've finished this now. I also really enjoyed The Nix, but I didn't see any comparison between the two. This one was way too random, stream-of-consciousness, all over the place. It reads like someone diary entries (because we do get to hear about nearly every day of the year it covers) rather than a story. Maybe we just didn't get it and need to read it in a different light?
I suspect you are better writing this one off and moving on (like I did with Subutex). It's clear from Goodreads reviews wider than just ours that this is another "marmite" book.
Neil wrote: "I've finished this now. I also really enjoyed The Nix, but I didn't see any comparison between the two. This one was way too random, stream-of-consciousness, all over the place. It reads like someo..."
The Neil-Meike-Test never fails!! :-) I think we totally got this one (and The Nix) - we just hate "The Idiot" for what it is! :-) In the comments above, Trudie posted an interesting article as to why a judge for the Tournament of Books loved it, and she states all that's horrible about the book (IMHO) as a positive! This Selin girl is just a whiny bore, rambling over more than 400 pages...can't deal with that either! :-)
Gumble's absolutely right: That's another marmite book. Btw: I LOOOOOVE Subutex 2, can't wait to discuss it with you!
Anna wrote: "Just a side note on the e-mail in the 90s complaint: in a country not very far from Turkey, I went to college in the late 90s and I had almost no idea what e-mail was. I opened my first account in ..."
As I said in my review: I am slightly too young to judge Selin's experience regarding this (and she lives in the States, which is pretty much the forefront of the internet, unlike Eastern Europe in the 90's), but I was annoyed by the cutesy "oh gosh, is that a computer" remarks - and by around 538465 aspects of this book.
I worked in a major financial services company just outside London until 1996 and we had no email and only dumb terminals rather than Pcs
Gumble's Yard wrote: "I worked in a major financial services company just outside London until 1996 and we had no email and only dumb terminals rather than Pcs"
I believe you guys, but I wasn't working or going to college in the late 90's, I was chilling in middle School (a German Gymnasium), and we did have computers there, and I also had e-mail. A guy in my class even founded an internet company in 1999! (Which is still up and running.) So why all this amazement by an American Harvard student? I find it prententious, like the whole rest of the book, although, as I said in the review, this particular aspect could also refer back to age - the rest doesn't though! :-)
I started work in 1982 in the IT industry. It must have been the crowd I mixed with because when we moved to email from faxes, we were just glad things took less time. There was no sense of wonder or amazement or confusion. The only people I know who were confused by email are my parents generation who were already older adults by the time it arrived.
an awful lot changed between 1995 and even 1998 for example webmail
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webmail
So this criticism is just incorrect I think
But as you say you also hated 538465 other things and I am not sure I can argue with any of those :-)
At least you finished it, Subutex I actually threw in the waste basket.
Gumble's Yard wrote: "an awful lot changed between 1995 and even 1998 for example webmail
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webmail
So this criticism is just incorrect I think
But as you say you also hated 538465 othe..."
How does this render my statement incorrect?
Neil wrote: "I started work in 1982 in the IT industry. It must have been the crowd I mixed with because when we moved to email from faxes, we were just glad things took less time. There was no sense of wonder ..."
Yes - I also remember that we simply started to use e-mail, and that's that - no parades, parties or particular amazement about that. Older people certainly got confused and were astounded, but young people just shrugged and went on with their lives.
I think Selin simply feels like everything - EVERYTHING - is a challenge to her, how she speaks, and dresses, and walks and whatever. The kid has too much time on her hands.
On a slightly different topic (slight spoilers ahead, so only read this if you have read the book), I was going to give this 2 stars until the final paragraph. I've seen several reviews that refer to it as "devastating" but my word for it would be different. It made me feel that the whole book had been a waste of time because nothing happened, there was no character development. The whole rambling, stream-of-consciousness stuff is like Knausgard with (bad) jokes. And I am one of the very few people who didn't like Knausgard.
Meike, Subutex 2 is published in English in June, so I will get there in a few weeks. I am incredibly (and genuinely) envious of people who can read in more than one language!
Neil wrote: "On a slightly different topic (slight spoilers ahead, so only read this if you have read the book), I was going to give this 2 stars until the final paragraph. I've seen several reviews that refer ..."
Haha, I didn't even make it 'til the end! :-)
And in case you want to learn German, I'm here to support you! Melodic languages are overrated anyway! :-)
I can understand that you didn't like the book but I feel I should counter some of your reasons. People who go to Harvard have just as much "right" to be confused and disoriented as people who go to college anywhere. I am sensitive to this because of the current political climate of anti-intelligence. I'm not very far into the book yet, but I don't think Selin is a "Whiny Harvard freshman" - I think she's an astute observer and a funny one at that. I should probably also say - my son is a student at Harvard.
I was starting to think I was the only one in our Goodreads group of friends who did not hate this book.
I was not arguing against Harvard, I was arguing against being whiny when you're as privileged as Selin who, objectively, has zero real problems and doesn't even realize it. The same would apply if she went to another school - Harvard just adds to it because going to Harvard is an additional privilege. I don't feel like she's an astute observer or particularly funny either, in fact I think she's pretty unbearable, but that is also a question of personal attitude and, in this case, personal background and experience. Frankly, I don't understand how you can bring my review into the context of anti-intellectualism - people who attended other schools can also be pretty sharp, so maybe one shouldn't argue that people who criticize Harvard (which I didn't even do) are anti-intelligence, as this is the kind of non-logic that plays into the hands of those you are intending to fight (btw, one of the schools I attended also plays in the Harvard league, but I don't feel like I'm more intelligent than others because of that - actually, to assume that wouldn't be particularly intelligent on my part!).
Plus: George W. Bush and some comparable geniuses also went to Harvard, so much for the "you have to be an intellectual"-factor...
...as privileged as Selin... ...has zero real problems...
That's what I am arguing against. I don't like that anyone's problems have to be justified against their background or their current situation.
Your comments about anti-intellectualism and what you say I meant don't match what I wrote so I'm not sure what to say about them.
I do, because people have to be aware of their privileges, learn that they exist in a context, and be appreciative of what life gives them. If your problems are independent of your background and current situation (which btw was not my argument, I said that these things are crucial for how the reader judges Selin), does that mean that you can declare absolutely everything to be a problem, and would that really be a good thing for someone like Selin?
You claimed that I said that people who attend Harvard don't have a right to be confused, and that you see that in relation to a climate of "anti-intelligence", and that's what I answered to.
I'm not that far in the book yet, but you and I view Selin very differently. I'm not seeing anything being declared as a problem. They come across to me simply as observations.
I haven’t read this book so far but I must say Meike this is simply one of your most amusing reviews.
“Whiny Harvard Freshman” don’t nobody need that ;) and I am still gobsmacked this was chosen over the masterpiece I consider “White Tears” to be in this years ToB.
Trudie wrote: "I haven’t read this book so far but I must say Meike this is simply one of your most amusing reviews.
“Whiny Harvard Freshman” don’t nobody need that ;) and I am still gobsmacked this was chosen ..."
Thanks, Trudie! And YES re "White Tears"! :-)
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Sarah
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Mar 15, 2018 11:21AM
Ahh! That bad? :(
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nettebuecherkiste wrote: "Ui..."Sarah wrote: "Ahh! That bad? :("
I simply cannot go on with this: Selin's "problems" are so pretentious and the narrative style is so slow and extensive, it really upsets me. I gave this audiobook around 8 hours of my life, and it gave me nothing in return! :-(
Just read your review and it does sound pretty awful! Might have to give it a miss now.
I am still not sure what you thought of the book Meike. Did you enjoy it.
Sarah wrote: "Just read your review and it does sound pretty awful! Might have to give it a miss now."I'd like to warn you, though: I read some other reviews, and some people do like this for pretty much the same reasons that I disliked it! Maybe you'll want to check out some other opinions as well. But you're right, I found it pretty awful! :-)
Gumble's Yard wrote: "I am still not sure what you thought of the book Meike. Did you enjoy it."Haha, I am sorry that I am remaining so vague, Gumble, but I have to protect my reputation as an international woman of mystery! :-)
Trudie wrote: "Awesome"Don't celebrate my suffering! :-) :-) :-)
Meike, thank you for another excellent review. Now I can use your review as justification for why I abandoned The Idiot after the second or third page.
BTW you might be interested or horrified to know this book is progressing well through The Tournament of Books. There is a detailed essay on why the judge loved it here https://themorningnews.org/tob/2018/w...
Dan wrote: "Meike, thank you for another excellent review. Now I can use your review as justification for why I abandoned The Idiot after the second or third page."Thank you, Dan! I wish I had abandoned the book after the second or third page as well! :-)
Trudie wrote: "BTW you might be interested or horrified to know this book is progressing well through The Tournament of Books. There is a detailed essay on why the judge loved it here https://themorningnews.org/t..."You know what's truly crazy? This judge is agreeing with me and repeatedly calls the book pretentious and boring, e.g.: "it’s often dull if not outright tedious; its plot tends to be faint at best" and "I probably found The Idiot so intensely relatable because it’s a book that is willing to risk being boring." What kind of praise is that when you could summarize her review as "Wow, the book is so blasé and boring, it has no plot or message, I respect that!" - seriously??
Haha, yep I know. I guess we are in a universe where up is down and vice versa. What is especially egregious to me is that White Tears is sensational:(
Oh yes, I read your review, and I definitely need to read "White Tears" as well!
Havent read the book but your review is hilarious. excellen!
Mark Hebwood wrote: "Havent read the book but your review is hilarious. excellen!"Thanks! :-)
Meike. I fear your review has backfired for me. I put the book off to the last of the long list after reading yours and others comments. But you set my expectations so low that I am now finding it surprisingly enjoyable almost against my will !!
Gumble's Yard wrote: "Meike. I fear your review has backfired for me. I put the book off to the last of the long list after reading yours and others comments. But you set my expectations so low that I am now finding i..."As I do not enjoy to see you suffer while reading a book, I think this is definitely a good thing! :-) And let's be real, it's hard to hate Batuman's oeuvre more than I do! :-)
I am really sorry and surprised to say that I loved the book
Gumble's Yard wrote: "I am really sorry and surprised to say that I loved the book"Gumble, I hope you're getting help! :-) :-) :-)
Now I am confused! Two of the people who’s opinions I value with different views. I don’t know what to do! Ok, actually, I know the answer is “read it for yourself and make up your own mind”.
Neil wrote: "Now I am confused! Two of the people who’s opinions I value with different views. I don’t know what to do! Ok, actually, I know the answer is “read it for yourself and make up your own mind”."Although I really disliked the book, I think it can be a good sign when people find valid reasons for both loving or hating it - at least Batuman evokes strong opinions, that can be a value in itself. I am curious to hear your thoughts, Neil!
I will check whether my library has it. I am not sure I want to spend money on a book when it seems equally likely I will love it or hate it.
Neil wrote: "I will check whether my library has it. I am not sure I want to spend money on a book when it seems equally likely I will love it or hate it."Please read the new Rachel Cusk instead, I would love to discuss it with you!
Can’t read Kudos until May when it is published. But my local library has a copy of this on the shelf which I have reserved.
Neil - I think your views have coincided far more with Meike than mine recently. Maybe read my review (just posted) and see if it appeals or appalsMy confusion is more that my reaction to this book reminded me of that to The Nix - and I can see that someone like Paul who hated that would hate this - but I know Meike was a Nix-lover.
Neil wrote: "Can’t read Kudos until May when it is published. But my local library has a copy of this on the shelf which I have reserved."Okay - let's see what you make of Batuman's ...äähh...manifesto? :-)
Gumble's Yard wrote: "My confusion is more that my reaction to this book reminded me of that to The Nix - and I can see that someone like Paul who hated that would hate this - but I know Meike was a Nix-lover."Oh, this is interesting - why did it make you think of your reaction to The Nix? Because you're right, of course: I loved The Nix!
I've finished this now. I also really enjoyed The Nix, but I didn't see any comparison between the two. This one was way too random, stream-of-consciousness, all over the place. It reads like someone diary entries (because we do get to hear about nearly every day of the year it covers) rather than a story. Maybe we just didn't get it and need to read it in a different light?
I suspect you are better writing this one off and moving on (like I did with Subutex). It's clear from Goodreads reviews wider than just ours that this is another "marmite" book.
Neil wrote: "I've finished this now. I also really enjoyed The Nix, but I didn't see any comparison between the two. This one was way too random, stream-of-consciousness, all over the place. It reads like someo..."The Neil-Meike-Test never fails!! :-) I think we totally got this one (and The Nix) - we just hate "The Idiot" for what it is! :-) In the comments above, Trudie posted an interesting article as to why a judge for the Tournament of Books loved it, and she states all that's horrible about the book (IMHO) as a positive! This Selin girl is just a whiny bore, rambling over more than 400 pages...can't deal with that either! :-)
Gumble's absolutely right: That's another marmite book. Btw: I LOOOOOVE Subutex 2, can't wait to discuss it with you!
Just a side note on the e-mail in the 90s complaint: in a country not very far from Turkey, I went to college in the late 90s and I had almost no idea what e-mail was. I opened my first account in 1999 and it was still close to magical.
I follow both Neil's and Gumble's Yard's reviews and seeing their conflicting opinions, now I'm really curious about this book :)
I follow both Neil's and Gumble's Yard's reviews and seeing their conflicting opinions, now I'm really curious about this book :)
Anna wrote: "Just a side note on the e-mail in the 90s complaint: in a country not very far from Turkey, I went to college in the late 90s and I had almost no idea what e-mail was. I opened my first account in ..."As I said in my review: I am slightly too young to judge Selin's experience regarding this (and she lives in the States, which is pretty much the forefront of the internet, unlike Eastern Europe in the 90's), but I was annoyed by the cutesy "oh gosh, is that a computer" remarks - and by around 538465 aspects of this book.
I worked in a major financial services company just outside London until 1996 and we had no email and only dumb terminals rather than Pcs
Gumble's Yard wrote: "I worked in a major financial services company just outside London until 1996 and we had no email and only dumb terminals rather than Pcs"I believe you guys, but I wasn't working or going to college in the late 90's, I was chilling in middle School (a German Gymnasium), and we did have computers there, and I also had e-mail. A guy in my class even founded an internet company in 1999! (Which is still up and running.) So why all this amazement by an American Harvard student? I find it prententious, like the whole rest of the book, although, as I said in the review, this particular aspect could also refer back to age - the rest doesn't though! :-)
I started work in 1982 in the IT industry. It must have been the crowd I mixed with because when we moved to email from faxes, we were just glad things took less time. There was no sense of wonder or amazement or confusion. The only people I know who were confused by email are my parents generation who were already older adults by the time it arrived.
an awful lot changed between 1995 and even 1998 for example webmailhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webmail
So this criticism is just incorrect I think
But as you say you also hated 538465 other things and I am not sure I can argue with any of those :-)
At least you finished it, Subutex I actually threw in the waste basket.
Gumble's Yard wrote: "an awful lot changed between 1995 and even 1998 for example webmailhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webmail
So this criticism is just incorrect I think
But as you say you also hated 538465 othe..."
How does this render my statement incorrect?
Neil wrote: "I started work in 1982 in the IT industry. It must have been the crowd I mixed with because when we moved to email from faxes, we were just glad things took less time. There was no sense of wonder ..."Yes - I also remember that we simply started to use e-mail, and that's that - no parades, parties or particular amazement about that. Older people certainly got confused and were astounded, but young people just shrugged and went on with their lives.
I think Selin simply feels like everything - EVERYTHING - is a challenge to her, how she speaks, and dresses, and walks and whatever. The kid has too much time on her hands.
On a slightly different topic (slight spoilers ahead, so only read this if you have read the book), I was going to give this 2 stars until the final paragraph. I've seen several reviews that refer to it as "devastating" but my word for it would be different. It made me feel that the whole book had been a waste of time because nothing happened, there was no character development. The whole rambling, stream-of-consciousness stuff is like Knausgard with (bad) jokes. And I am one of the very few people who didn't like Knausgard.Meike, Subutex 2 is published in English in June, so I will get there in a few weeks. I am incredibly (and genuinely) envious of people who can read in more than one language!
Neil wrote: "On a slightly different topic (slight spoilers ahead, so only read this if you have read the book), I was going to give this 2 stars until the final paragraph. I've seen several reviews that refer ..."Haha, I didn't even make it 'til the end! :-)
And in case you want to learn German, I'm here to support you! Melodic languages are overrated anyway! :-)
I can understand that you didn't like the book but I feel I should counter some of your reasons. People who go to Harvard have just as much "right" to be confused and disoriented as people who go to college anywhere. I am sensitive to this because of the current political climate of anti-intelligence. I'm not very far into the book yet, but I don't think Selin is a "Whiny Harvard freshman" - I think she's an astute observer and a funny one at that. I should probably also say - my son is a student at Harvard.
I was starting to think I was the only one in our Goodreads group of friends who did not hate this book.
I was not arguing against Harvard, I was arguing against being whiny when you're as privileged as Selin who, objectively, has zero real problems and doesn't even realize it. The same would apply if she went to another school - Harvard just adds to it because going to Harvard is an additional privilege. I don't feel like she's an astute observer or particularly funny either, in fact I think she's pretty unbearable, but that is also a question of personal attitude and, in this case, personal background and experience. Frankly, I don't understand how you can bring my review into the context of anti-intellectualism - people who attended other schools can also be pretty sharp, so maybe one shouldn't argue that people who criticize Harvard (which I didn't even do) are anti-intelligence, as this is the kind of non-logic that plays into the hands of those you are intending to fight (btw, one of the schools I attended also plays in the Harvard league, but I don't feel like I'm more intelligent than others because of that - actually, to assume that wouldn't be particularly intelligent on my part!). Plus: George W. Bush and some comparable geniuses also went to Harvard, so much for the "you have to be an intellectual"-factor...
...as privileged as Selin... ...has zero real problems...That's what I am arguing against. I don't like that anyone's problems have to be justified against their background or their current situation.
Your comments about anti-intellectualism and what you say I meant don't match what I wrote so I'm not sure what to say about them.
I do, because people have to be aware of their privileges, learn that they exist in a context, and be appreciative of what life gives them. If your problems are independent of your background and current situation (which btw was not my argument, I said that these things are crucial for how the reader judges Selin), does that mean that you can declare absolutely everything to be a problem, and would that really be a good thing for someone like Selin? You claimed that I said that people who attend Harvard don't have a right to be confused, and that you see that in relation to a climate of "anti-intelligence", and that's what I answered to.
I'm not that far in the book yet, but you and I view Selin very differently. I'm not seeing anything being declared as a problem. They come across to me simply as observations.
I haven’t read this book so far but I must say Meike this is simply one of your most amusing reviews. “Whiny Harvard Freshman” don’t nobody need that ;) and I am still gobsmacked this was chosen over the masterpiece I consider “White Tears” to be in this years ToB.
Trudie wrote: "I haven’t read this book so far but I must say Meike this is simply one of your most amusing reviews. “Whiny Harvard Freshman” don’t nobody need that ;) and I am still gobsmacked this was chosen ..."
Thanks, Trudie! And YES re "White Tears"! :-)
