leynes’s review of Girl, Woman, Other > Likes and Comments
1135 likes · Like
Bummer.
I just added this to my TBR 😅 oh well i will see what you have to say about it before i remove it or let it stay there
Ivy wrote: "I just added this to my TBR 😅 oh well i will see what you have to say about it before i remove it or let it stay there"
Yeah, I don't really know what to say as of now ... it felt very constructed / artificial to me, and on top of that it was very buzz-wordy, which made it seem as if the characters were mouthpieces for the specific "identity" they were representing, instead of real human beings in the flesh ... it was weird. But I don't want to deter you from reading it, I know lots of people who loved it.
In my upcoming review I'll try to work with some quotes so that you can get a picture of the writing style. :)
Cedricsmom wrote: "Bummer."
I know ... :(
leynes wrote: "Yeah, I don't really know what to say as of now ... it felt very..."
I completely agree with you on it being very "buzz-wordy" and the characters being mouthpieces for different identities! It really frustrated me while reading it, and I didn't believe any of the characters, because, like you said, they felt artificial... :(
Liisabet wrote: "leynes wrote: "Yeah, I don't really know what to say as of now ... it felt very..."
I completely agree with you on it being very "buzz-wordy" and the characters being mouthpieces for different iden..."
Interesting that you also felt this way; I think we're in the minority here. ;)
thanks for sharing your thoughts on this! its a shame you felt it so constructed - i always find it interesting what different readers see in a work so appreciate you laying it down like this - food for thought!
I really wanna massage his balls ☹ yes i'm skipping this one 🤣
Ivy wrote: "I really wanna massage his balls ☹ yes i'm skipping this one 🤣"
That was the low point of the whole book for me. :D
Tanya wrote: "thanks for sharing your thoughts on this! its a shame you felt it so constructed - i always find it interesting what different readers see in a work so appreciate you laying it down like this - foo..."
First and foremost, I'm glad you enjoyed this book so much. :) Like you, I also like to engage with reviewers who don't share my opinion but can give reasonable explanations instead of just hating on a book! :)
Thank you for the honest review. I've dipped into this novel in book stores and wasn't sure, but felt like I needed to like it due to the acclaim it received. I may try it myself, but won't feel guilty anymore if I don't.
Melody wrote: "Thank you for the honest review. I've dipped into this novel in book stores and wasn't sure, but felt like I needed to like it due to the acclaim it received. I may try it myself, but won't feel gu..."
Unfortunately, I feel like many people feel like they need to like certain stories due to their important or sensitive subject matter and/or critical acclaim. That's totally not the case. We can like and dislike whatever we want. :) Glad you're no longer feeling guilty about it! <3
This review is spot on! I was very disappointed by this book.
Nehrlisa wrote: "This review is spot on! I was very disappointed by this book."
Glad you agree. :)
I agree that your review is spot on. I got more and more annoyed as I read on. Every human being is ultimately a mystery and I think it is the job of fiction to show that, and there is no sense at all of that in this book. No, this book is glib and 'clever'. For a book which is supposedly about the struggles of black women, I get no sense at all of struggle. They just do things, whether it be getting clean in 9 days (done and dusted), spending a working life at a difficult working class school or having an affair with your daughter's husband. They just did it. It all felt smug and self-congratulatory. I am probably venturing into dangerous territory here, but these women were basically all 'successful' in societal terms, even the trans-gender PERSON who became (effortlessly) a social media influencer. And they all seem to have done it in 1, or, due to the unfairness of life, 2, generations. Are they not just repeating the trajectory of the white British working class when the heavy hand of upper class oppression faltered and failed after WWII? My grandfather was a working class English man, his kids all went to university, my aunt became a professor. Does Bernadine Evaristo think that her black women are the first group in history to do this? How blind. That is the other problem I have with this book - no historical awareness or context. And yes, all groups that have thrown off the shackles have had to struggle. They did not win without effort. Winning never comes witthout effort.
I liked this book a lot more than you did. I saw all the buzz word stuff as actually poking fun at it, but maybe that was because of where I am. But your line, "Have you ever looked at a person for the first time in your life and thought to yourself "DAMN, I REALLY WANNA MASSAGE HIS BALLS"???" made me laugh out loud. And also true.
Susan wrote: "I liked this book a lot more than you did. I saw all the buzz word stuff as actually poking fun at it, but maybe that was because of where I am. But your line, "Have you ever looked at a person for..."
Happy to hear you enjoyed it more than I did. :) And yes, that line still makes me cackle as well ... I can't believe she actually put it in the book. "Massage his balls"... like, really? :D
this is such a bad faith review. and wow the comments are incredibly immature—you all realize that sex and relationships are a huge part of people’s lives right? typical censorships of women’s wants and desires is why we need books like this to begin with. i can’t imagine you’d be cackling about a line from a man “I’d like to grasp her breasts” let alone want to put a book down because of it.
Hana wrote: "this is such a bad faith review. and wow the comments are incredibly immature—you all realize that sex and relationships are a huge part of people’s lives right? typical censorships of women’s want..."
This comment made me think. I almost definitely wouldn't cackle if the first thing a man thought upon meeting his daughter-in-law was "I really want to grab her breasts." But I might indeed put the book down because I have been noticing that so many books I have been reading lately involve older men preying on younger women/girls, and I really hate it. So, you are correct, there is definitely gender bias in my thoughts, although I would be more angry if the genders were reversed in this scene. My book group was weirded out by this relationship in the book, but we are all female. Wish I had seen your comment before we met!
Hana wrote: "this is such a bad faith review. and wow the comments are incredibly immature—you all realize that sex and relationships are a huge part of people’s lives right? typical censorships of women’s want..."
I respect your opinion but let me clarify something. Like I wrote in the review, my initial reaction to that line in the book was:
"What the fuck is wrong with you??? I'm sorry. Have you ever looked at a person for the first time in your life and thought to yourself "DAMN, I REALLY WANNA MASSAGE HIS BALLS"???? I am confusion."
And that would be my first reaction as well had the gender be reversed. So had a man thought about a woman "Damn, I really wanna massage her pussy", my initial reaction also would've been "WTF is wrong with you?"
Since English is only my third language, I now realize, after actually looking up the word (lmao), that "to cackle" does actually not mean what I thought it meant. What I wanted to express with my comment (responding to that other person) was that when I now think about these lines, I wanna snort and shake my head because I can't believe how ridiculous that moment in the book was because Bernadine Evaristo wrote it as this kind of "female empowerment" moment, when in reality, it's hella predatory and weird. Like I said before, regardless of gender (even though I have to agree with Susan that my response of disgust would've been higher if it was written from a male perspective ... which shows my bias because women can be predators as well^^).
If my mom or dad reacted in that way when seeing my boyfriend or girlfriend I would be fucking mortified. For me, that has nothing to do with "reclaiming women's sexuality" or anything like that. Whether it's one of Evaristo's character's first thoughts being "I wanna massage his balls" or Trump saying "grab her by the pussy" ... it's a NO GO for me.
And sure thing, sex is important for most people. However, I find the topic incredibly boring. And people being caught up in sex and relationships (and nothing more than that) are hella boring (and unrelatable to me). I'm not advocating for censorship for women's desires (???), I just found the book to be hella superficial and very badly plotted out and written, as I detail in my review.^^
One of my guilty pleasures is reading "bad" reviews on Goodreads, and I loved this one. You had me cackling at that Rupi Kaur comparison - I'll have to see if you've reviewed any of hers. That said, I appreciate how in-depth your reviews are!
Rielle wrote: "One of my guilty pleasures is reading "bad" reviews on Goodreads, and I loved this one. You had me cackling at that Rupi Kaur comparison - I'll have to see if you've reviewed any of hers. That said..."
I love a good Rupi drag ... only read Milk & Honey but that was enough for me. :D
Ana wrote: "How is you laughing at a woman being absolutely unrealistic and weird [and hella predatory] a way of you trynna silence/undermine women's desires?? If all a book can offer is really bad sex drama i..."
Yeah, I didn't understand that argument as well.
But it made me realize that there may be an argument to have about how differently we treat predatory behaviour from women (= laughable, ridiculous) and men (= disgusting, dangerous) in fiction and real life ... when both is disgusting and dangerous... but again, I didn't laugh because the character was predatory, I laughed because it was presented as this "feminist"-moment and that's just ridiculous.
You just captured so much of what I thought.
Toffy wrote: "You just captured so much of what I thought."
Glad to hear that, even though it's of course unfortunate that we both ended up not enjoying this book!
Great review. I also like how you reminded me to read more of Gloria Baylor’s work. I totally agree about this book. I couldn’t even finish it. I had chalked it up to my not being in the right head space for it, but now I don’t think it was just that.
Haha, great review. I really enjoyed the book but still take your point on some of the weaknesses you’ve pinpointed. Yazz and her squad in particular were poorly executed and unbelievable.
However, overall I did really enjoy it and part of the reason was that I did feel that the characters responded and acted in ways that we weren’t necessarily intended to agree with, allowing us the space to judge for ourselves.
The most important thing is, keep reading. It’s great to see people feel so passionate about books.
Ann wrote: "Haha, great review. I really enjoyed the book but still take your point on some of the weaknesses you’ve pinpointed. Yazz and her squad in particular were poorly executed and unbelievable.
Howeve..."
Happy to hear you enjoyed the book! It's great to see people with different taste(s) in literature being open-minded and engaging with other opinions. :)
And like you said, the most important thing is to keep reading.
Have a lovely Sunday!
Thanks for your review!
I have to agree with most of it. I was frustrated by the lack of depth and ability to get to know the characters. I rated three stars though, maybe because I’m a thirty-something-British-woman who could relate to a lot of the experiences we WERE privy to in the book. I think that deserves some acknowledgment for the author, because I have to admit, as a straight white female, the initial few chapters, with the lack of capital letters and punctuation and super feminist/lesbian/lefty vibes I was getting, were almost enough to make me stop and think ‘I don’t have the energy for this... chai latte is too much hipster for me’. And I’m not against any of that, by the way, it’s just not necessarily the book I’d have picked off the shelf just now.
Nevertheless, I enjoyed the initial intro to most of the characters that the book does give. I guess I related mostly to Carole so a gripe I have with the lack of insight is that I wanted to see her have kids, have a happy healthy relationship with her seemingly great husband, and I want to see her let herself go a bit (not to the red wine and coke fuelled extent of Amma and Dominique, but like, some yoga and a cocktail frenzy with some good, secure, happy mates).
One character I really didn’t like was Yazz’s gay dad. I think it’s a cop out for a pro-lesbian/trans/LGBTQ+ book to portray the main male gay guy as a total bitch. Yawn. It’s been done. Gay guys can be nice and make very loving, hands on dads, however they become a father. I can see how Yazz became such a jumped up cockwomble seeing as her mum seems intent on putting herself, her sex life, social life and career above everything, Yazz included, and the same can be said about her scathing, bitchy and bitter dad. Sigh.
Would I read again? No. But I think I enjoyed it... or, I didn’t NOT enjoy it. Is that the same?!
Lauren wrote: "Thanks for your review!
I have to agree with most of it. I was frustrated by the lack of depth and ability to get to know the characters. I rated three stars though, maybe because I’m a thirty-so..."
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Totally see where you're coming from and I agree that based on one's own experiences the level of being able to related to the characters will differ. So someone like you, who is from the UK herself, will probably have a vastly different reading experience than good ole German-me.
That review exactly matches my views but I couldn't have written it so clearly. Very contrived, All obsessed with sex! meh! Everyone I know who have read it loved it can't see why
Sharonb wrote: "That review exactly matches my views but I couldn't have written it so clearly. Very contrived, All obsessed with sex! meh! Everyone I know who have read it loved it can't see why"
Happy to hear I could put some of your thoughts into words!
I completely agree with you and felt like I was missing something as it's been so raced about, but found the characters insufferable, cliched and patronising to the point where I had to stop reading it out of frustration.
Thank you for posting this review. I’m struggling to finish this book and am finding nothing here to compel me to stay with these characters. Maybe it’s simply because I personally don’t relate to them in my own demographic - I’m not clear on that.
Melissa wrote: "Thank you for posting this review. I’m struggling to finish this book and am finding nothing here to compel me to stay with these characters. Maybe it’s simply because I personally don’t relate to ..."
You're welcome. I'm not from the UK, but as a European Black woman myself I've found the characters impossible to relate to, so it might not be a demographic thing ... it could really just be that some of us simply don't vibe with Evaristo's writing style, narrative choice and characterisation. And if you're not feeling like it, just DNF the book. There's no shame in that.
Lucy wrote: "I completely agree with you and felt like I was missing something as it's been so raced about, but found the characters insufferable, cliched and patronising to the point where I had to stop readin..."
I totally understand DNFing this book!
I totally agree with everything you said. I wish I could have explained it as well.
Hats off to you for reading the book in 10 days although you didn’t like it! I have been reading it for a week now, currently struggling at 9th% thinking of leaving it unfinished and finding something worth my time.
Michaela wrote: "Hats off to you for reading the book in 10 days although you didn’t like it! I have been reading it for a week now, currently struggling at 9th% thinking of leaving it unfinished and finding someth..."
Sometimes DNFing a book is the best option. If you're not enjoying yourself, definitely find something more worthy of your time!
You've managed to convey everything I think about this novel more eloquently than I ever could. Thank you for the very nuanced review and thank you for the literature suggestions of novels that managed to pull off what this one couldn't, it's important to have examples of how something is done properly when critiquing.
I agree with nearly all your comments. Except that some of the conversations you critique probably were valid: intellectuals on coke may actually sound affected and pretentious! Though I did not like the lack of caps and quotes: are we rediscovering ee cummings?) I especially agree that the characters raisin d'etre was not to live their lives, but to allow the author to speak through them to the point that they, themselves, felt hollow.
I'm so relieved to read this review. I honestly am struggling through this book. There is no depth, no plot, no character, and she has asking so much of the reader, every chapter you have to commit to learning and liking a character. It's exhausting
Vaanie wrote: "I'm so relieved to read this review. I honestly am struggling through this book. There is no depth, no plot, no character, and she has asking so much of the reader, every chapter you have to commit..."
Yup. That's how I felt too. I mean if you don't feel like it at all, you can always stop reading and pick up something more engaging. :)
Your review has been so helpful for me.
I used to read every book I started right through to the end, as if it was my duty. The last few years I realized we only get one lifetime, so why waste it reading books we don't enjoy? These days, I will drop a book if I read a chunk of it and determine that the way it's written is too obnoxious to continue. With that said, it's pretty rare for me to drop a book. I don't have to LOVE a book to read it through, and I have broad interests. Even if a book isn't quite my cup of tea, I will still read it through and appreciate the good in it. A book has to really rub me the wrong way for me to drop it.
I've been struggling with Girl, Woman, Other, unsure if I should drop it or give it a chance. I'm not very far into it at all...only halfway through Yazz's section. I don't like it so far, for all the reasons you describe, but because it is divided into separate character stories, I haven't been 100% sure if my problem is with the author's style and approach, or if it's just these characters. I thought there might be a chance that the author intended to write a couple narcissistic characters at the beginning, but would somehow contextualize and deepen with an overarching narrative that builds through the characters that come later.
It sounds like that just doesn't happen, and if I don't like what I've read so far I will probably be further disappointed by the rest of the book. It's too bad. I heard such good things about this one, and I really wanted to be drawn into it. But it just reads like a laundry list of why each character is an awesome zany genius. They read like manic pixie dream girls, which is a weird comparison because MPDGs are usually written by and for the benefit of men and male characters, which isn't the case here. Even so, Amma and Yazz read like MPDGs because they seem like the author's fantasy of the coolest women ever, but it's all surface and they completely lack depth of character or believability. They just don't feel like real people at all, and I keep asking myself...why am I reading this?
I'm gonna drop it. Thank you for your review!
Molly wrote: "Your review has been so helpful for me.
I used to read every book I started right through to the end, as if it was my duty. The last few years I realized we only get one lifetime, so why waste it..."
Thanks for sharing your thought process with us! I totally get how you feel. I rarely DNF books and more often than not I feel like I "have" to give every book another chance. But then, just like you said, I try to remind myself that my time here is precious. I would rather spent it on books I enjoy or that teach me something.
If you didn't like the first two chapters of this particular book, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't enjoy the rest of it either ... it's all written in the same style and none of the characters feel real. So I think you're making a smart decision switching to another book! :)
Hi people well we all know that this book is all about girls and women.😘😘😘😘😘
As harsh as your review is, I cannot help but concur with most of it.
As a 3rd generation British-African woman, I have grandparents who had a not so similar but relatable migration to England as Hattie and Slim (but not really because my grandparent's had a deeper tie to Africa). As I read on discovering the different characters the more and more I just could not connect with any of them. The only thing I could relate to was her referencing the song ' My boy lollipop' from the 60s - My grandma loved that song.
I totally get her intention, but the characters seemed forced, fake and phoney. Just like the Live Aid Charity era, which painted a whole continent of people as poverty stricken, in need of a white saviour to feed the world with patronising propaganda, Evaristo is shedding light on a very narrow, very obtuse and ignorant perception of black women with African heritage. In fact I think her cultural knowledge is extermemly external. It's like reading someone write about what they THINK African woman's lives are like rather than from experience. I do get the understanding though that Evaristo is biracial as only the biracial characters seemed somewhat real to me.
It's a pander book. Pandering to people from the western culture who want to know more about African Diaspora. And you won't get the real deal of that from this book. Read Zadie Smith's White Teeth instead.
Anne-Marie wrote: "As harsh as your review is, I cannot help but concur with most of it.
As a 3rd generation British-African woman, I have grandparents who had a not so similar but relatable migration to England as..."
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have always wanted to read more from Zadie Smith, I might check out White Teeth. So thanks for the recommendation as well!
I completely agree with this review. I feel like for all the good points this book has (being centred around solely black/mixed race people, all women or non-binary, touching on contemporary social issues) all of that was trivialised by how it was presented. The characters felt two dimensional, and therefore all of their struggles, challenges, and traumas felt insignificant, and as though they had been included for the sake of it. It felt like forced representatives of contemporary tropes, and very tokenistic at times.
Also I cannot agree more that there could be so much more to a book like this than just sex and romance, I get it's a big aspect of a lot of people's lives, but where's the depth?
Maz wrote: "I completely agree with this review. I feel like for all the good points this book has (being centred around solely black/mixed race people, all women or non-binary, touching on contemporary social..."
Yeah, this book really didn't sit right with me. For a novel, that is so clearly character-driven it's quite frustrating how flat all the characters were.
I picked up this book with high expectations. And I honestly could not even get past the first chapter and then I felt bad. I don’t like to quit a book.
Reading your review though has me relieved. Thanks for taking the time to write your thoughts on the book.
Sanwali wrote: "I picked up this book with high expectations. And I honestly could not even get past the first chapter and then I felt bad. I don’t like to quit a book.
Reading your review though has me relieved...."
No problem. :) There's no shame in quitting a book, your time and attention is worth too much to be spend on books you don't enjoy!
back to top
message 1:
by
Cedricsmom
(new)
Mar 15, 2020 02:28PM
Bummer.
reply
|
flag
I just added this to my TBR 😅 oh well i will see what you have to say about it before i remove it or let it stay there
Ivy wrote: "I just added this to my TBR 😅 oh well i will see what you have to say about it before i remove it or let it stay there"Yeah, I don't really know what to say as of now ... it felt very constructed / artificial to me, and on top of that it was very buzz-wordy, which made it seem as if the characters were mouthpieces for the specific "identity" they were representing, instead of real human beings in the flesh ... it was weird. But I don't want to deter you from reading it, I know lots of people who loved it.
In my upcoming review I'll try to work with some quotes so that you can get a picture of the writing style. :)
Cedricsmom wrote: "Bummer."
I know ... :(
leynes wrote: "Yeah, I don't really know what to say as of now ... it felt very..."I completely agree with you on it being very "buzz-wordy" and the characters being mouthpieces for different identities! It really frustrated me while reading it, and I didn't believe any of the characters, because, like you said, they felt artificial... :(
Liisabet wrote: "leynes wrote: "Yeah, I don't really know what to say as of now ... it felt very..."I completely agree with you on it being very "buzz-wordy" and the characters being mouthpieces for different iden..."
Interesting that you also felt this way; I think we're in the minority here. ;)
thanks for sharing your thoughts on this! its a shame you felt it so constructed - i always find it interesting what different readers see in a work so appreciate you laying it down like this - food for thought!
I really wanna massage his balls ☹ yes i'm skipping this one 🤣
Ivy wrote: "I really wanna massage his balls ☹ yes i'm skipping this one 🤣"That was the low point of the whole book for me. :D
Tanya wrote: "thanks for sharing your thoughts on this! its a shame you felt it so constructed - i always find it interesting what different readers see in a work so appreciate you laying it down like this - foo..."
First and foremost, I'm glad you enjoyed this book so much. :) Like you, I also like to engage with reviewers who don't share my opinion but can give reasonable explanations instead of just hating on a book! :)
Thank you for the honest review. I've dipped into this novel in book stores and wasn't sure, but felt like I needed to like it due to the acclaim it received. I may try it myself, but won't feel guilty anymore if I don't.
Melody wrote: "Thank you for the honest review. I've dipped into this novel in book stores and wasn't sure, but felt like I needed to like it due to the acclaim it received. I may try it myself, but won't feel gu..."Unfortunately, I feel like many people feel like they need to like certain stories due to their important or sensitive subject matter and/or critical acclaim. That's totally not the case. We can like and dislike whatever we want. :) Glad you're no longer feeling guilty about it! <3
This review is spot on! I was very disappointed by this book.
Nehrlisa wrote: "This review is spot on! I was very disappointed by this book."Glad you agree. :)
I agree that your review is spot on. I got more and more annoyed as I read on. Every human being is ultimately a mystery and I think it is the job of fiction to show that, and there is no sense at all of that in this book. No, this book is glib and 'clever'. For a book which is supposedly about the struggles of black women, I get no sense at all of struggle. They just do things, whether it be getting clean in 9 days (done and dusted), spending a working life at a difficult working class school or having an affair with your daughter's husband. They just did it. It all felt smug and self-congratulatory. I am probably venturing into dangerous territory here, but these women were basically all 'successful' in societal terms, even the trans-gender PERSON who became (effortlessly) a social media influencer. And they all seem to have done it in 1, or, due to the unfairness of life, 2, generations. Are they not just repeating the trajectory of the white British working class when the heavy hand of upper class oppression faltered and failed after WWII? My grandfather was a working class English man, his kids all went to university, my aunt became a professor. Does Bernadine Evaristo think that her black women are the first group in history to do this? How blind. That is the other problem I have with this book - no historical awareness or context. And yes, all groups that have thrown off the shackles have had to struggle. They did not win without effort. Winning never comes witthout effort.
I liked this book a lot more than you did. I saw all the buzz word stuff as actually poking fun at it, but maybe that was because of where I am. But your line, "Have you ever looked at a person for the first time in your life and thought to yourself "DAMN, I REALLY WANNA MASSAGE HIS BALLS"???" made me laugh out loud. And also true.
Susan wrote: "I liked this book a lot more than you did. I saw all the buzz word stuff as actually poking fun at it, but maybe that was because of where I am. But your line, "Have you ever looked at a person for..."Happy to hear you enjoyed it more than I did. :) And yes, that line still makes me cackle as well ... I can't believe she actually put it in the book. "Massage his balls"... like, really? :D
this is such a bad faith review. and wow the comments are incredibly immature—you all realize that sex and relationships are a huge part of people’s lives right? typical censorships of women’s wants and desires is why we need books like this to begin with. i can’t imagine you’d be cackling about a line from a man “I’d like to grasp her breasts” let alone want to put a book down because of it.
Hana wrote: "this is such a bad faith review. and wow the comments are incredibly immature—you all realize that sex and relationships are a huge part of people’s lives right? typical censorships of women’s want..."This comment made me think. I almost definitely wouldn't cackle if the first thing a man thought upon meeting his daughter-in-law was "I really want to grab her breasts." But I might indeed put the book down because I have been noticing that so many books I have been reading lately involve older men preying on younger women/girls, and I really hate it. So, you are correct, there is definitely gender bias in my thoughts, although I would be more angry if the genders were reversed in this scene. My book group was weirded out by this relationship in the book, but we are all female. Wish I had seen your comment before we met!
Hana wrote: "this is such a bad faith review. and wow the comments are incredibly immature—you all realize that sex and relationships are a huge part of people’s lives right? typical censorships of women’s want..."I respect your opinion but let me clarify something. Like I wrote in the review, my initial reaction to that line in the book was:
"What the fuck is wrong with you??? I'm sorry. Have you ever looked at a person for the first time in your life and thought to yourself "DAMN, I REALLY WANNA MASSAGE HIS BALLS"???? I am confusion."
And that would be my first reaction as well had the gender be reversed. So had a man thought about a woman "Damn, I really wanna massage her pussy", my initial reaction also would've been "WTF is wrong with you?"
Since English is only my third language, I now realize, after actually looking up the word (lmao), that "to cackle" does actually not mean what I thought it meant. What I wanted to express with my comment (responding to that other person) was that when I now think about these lines, I wanna snort and shake my head because I can't believe how ridiculous that moment in the book was because Bernadine Evaristo wrote it as this kind of "female empowerment" moment, when in reality, it's hella predatory and weird. Like I said before, regardless of gender (even though I have to agree with Susan that my response of disgust would've been higher if it was written from a male perspective ... which shows my bias because women can be predators as well^^).
If my mom or dad reacted in that way when seeing my boyfriend or girlfriend I would be fucking mortified. For me, that has nothing to do with "reclaiming women's sexuality" or anything like that. Whether it's one of Evaristo's character's first thoughts being "I wanna massage his balls" or Trump saying "grab her by the pussy" ... it's a NO GO for me.
And sure thing, sex is important for most people. However, I find the topic incredibly boring. And people being caught up in sex and relationships (and nothing more than that) are hella boring (and unrelatable to me). I'm not advocating for censorship for women's desires (???), I just found the book to be hella superficial and very badly plotted out and written, as I detail in my review.^^
One of my guilty pleasures is reading "bad" reviews on Goodreads, and I loved this one. You had me cackling at that Rupi Kaur comparison - I'll have to see if you've reviewed any of hers. That said, I appreciate how in-depth your reviews are!
Rielle wrote: "One of my guilty pleasures is reading "bad" reviews on Goodreads, and I loved this one. You had me cackling at that Rupi Kaur comparison - I'll have to see if you've reviewed any of hers. That said..."I love a good Rupi drag ... only read Milk & Honey but that was enough for me. :D
Ana wrote: "How is you laughing at a woman being absolutely unrealistic and weird [and hella predatory] a way of you trynna silence/undermine women's desires?? If all a book can offer is really bad sex drama i..."Yeah, I didn't understand that argument as well.
But it made me realize that there may be an argument to have about how differently we treat predatory behaviour from women (= laughable, ridiculous) and men (= disgusting, dangerous) in fiction and real life ... when both is disgusting and dangerous... but again, I didn't laugh because the character was predatory, I laughed because it was presented as this "feminist"-moment and that's just ridiculous.
You just captured so much of what I thought.
Toffy wrote: "You just captured so much of what I thought."Glad to hear that, even though it's of course unfortunate that we both ended up not enjoying this book!
Great review. I also like how you reminded me to read more of Gloria Baylor’s work. I totally agree about this book. I couldn’t even finish it. I had chalked it up to my not being in the right head space for it, but now I don’t think it was just that.
Haha, great review. I really enjoyed the book but still take your point on some of the weaknesses you’ve pinpointed. Yazz and her squad in particular were poorly executed and unbelievable. However, overall I did really enjoy it and part of the reason was that I did feel that the characters responded and acted in ways that we weren’t necessarily intended to agree with, allowing us the space to judge for ourselves.
The most important thing is, keep reading. It’s great to see people feel so passionate about books.
Ann wrote: "Haha, great review. I really enjoyed the book but still take your point on some of the weaknesses you’ve pinpointed. Yazz and her squad in particular were poorly executed and unbelievable. Howeve..."
Happy to hear you enjoyed the book! It's great to see people with different taste(s) in literature being open-minded and engaging with other opinions. :)
And like you said, the most important thing is to keep reading.
Have a lovely Sunday!
Thanks for your review! I have to agree with most of it. I was frustrated by the lack of depth and ability to get to know the characters. I rated three stars though, maybe because I’m a thirty-something-British-woman who could relate to a lot of the experiences we WERE privy to in the book. I think that deserves some acknowledgment for the author, because I have to admit, as a straight white female, the initial few chapters, with the lack of capital letters and punctuation and super feminist/lesbian/lefty vibes I was getting, were almost enough to make me stop and think ‘I don’t have the energy for this... chai latte is too much hipster for me’. And I’m not against any of that, by the way, it’s just not necessarily the book I’d have picked off the shelf just now.
Nevertheless, I enjoyed the initial intro to most of the characters that the book does give. I guess I related mostly to Carole so a gripe I have with the lack of insight is that I wanted to see her have kids, have a happy healthy relationship with her seemingly great husband, and I want to see her let herself go a bit (not to the red wine and coke fuelled extent of Amma and Dominique, but like, some yoga and a cocktail frenzy with some good, secure, happy mates).
One character I really didn’t like was Yazz’s gay dad. I think it’s a cop out for a pro-lesbian/trans/LGBTQ+ book to portray the main male gay guy as a total bitch. Yawn. It’s been done. Gay guys can be nice and make very loving, hands on dads, however they become a father. I can see how Yazz became such a jumped up cockwomble seeing as her mum seems intent on putting herself, her sex life, social life and career above everything, Yazz included, and the same can be said about her scathing, bitchy and bitter dad. Sigh.
Would I read again? No. But I think I enjoyed it... or, I didn’t NOT enjoy it. Is that the same?!
Lauren wrote: "Thanks for your review! I have to agree with most of it. I was frustrated by the lack of depth and ability to get to know the characters. I rated three stars though, maybe because I’m a thirty-so..."
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Totally see where you're coming from and I agree that based on one's own experiences the level of being able to related to the characters will differ. So someone like you, who is from the UK herself, will probably have a vastly different reading experience than good ole German-me.
That review exactly matches my views but I couldn't have written it so clearly. Very contrived, All obsessed with sex! meh! Everyone I know who have read it loved it can't see why
Sharonb wrote: "That review exactly matches my views but I couldn't have written it so clearly. Very contrived, All obsessed with sex! meh! Everyone I know who have read it loved it can't see why"Happy to hear I could put some of your thoughts into words!
I completely agree with you and felt like I was missing something as it's been so raced about, but found the characters insufferable, cliched and patronising to the point where I had to stop reading it out of frustration.
Thank you for posting this review. I’m struggling to finish this book and am finding nothing here to compel me to stay with these characters. Maybe it’s simply because I personally don’t relate to them in my own demographic - I’m not clear on that.
Melissa wrote: "Thank you for posting this review. I’m struggling to finish this book and am finding nothing here to compel me to stay with these characters. Maybe it’s simply because I personally don’t relate to ..."You're welcome. I'm not from the UK, but as a European Black woman myself I've found the characters impossible to relate to, so it might not be a demographic thing ... it could really just be that some of us simply don't vibe with Evaristo's writing style, narrative choice and characterisation. And if you're not feeling like it, just DNF the book. There's no shame in that.
Lucy wrote: "I completely agree with you and felt like I was missing something as it's been so raced about, but found the characters insufferable, cliched and patronising to the point where I had to stop readin..."
I totally understand DNFing this book!
I totally agree with everything you said. I wish I could have explained it as well.
Hats off to you for reading the book in 10 days although you didn’t like it! I have been reading it for a week now, currently struggling at 9th% thinking of leaving it unfinished and finding something worth my time.
Michaela wrote: "Hats off to you for reading the book in 10 days although you didn’t like it! I have been reading it for a week now, currently struggling at 9th% thinking of leaving it unfinished and finding someth..."Sometimes DNFing a book is the best option. If you're not enjoying yourself, definitely find something more worthy of your time!
You've managed to convey everything I think about this novel more eloquently than I ever could. Thank you for the very nuanced review and thank you for the literature suggestions of novels that managed to pull off what this one couldn't, it's important to have examples of how something is done properly when critiquing.
I agree with nearly all your comments. Except that some of the conversations you critique probably were valid: intellectuals on coke may actually sound affected and pretentious! Though I did not like the lack of caps and quotes: are we rediscovering ee cummings?) I especially agree that the characters raisin d'etre was not to live their lives, but to allow the author to speak through them to the point that they, themselves, felt hollow.
I'm so relieved to read this review. I honestly am struggling through this book. There is no depth, no plot, no character, and she has asking so much of the reader, every chapter you have to commit to learning and liking a character. It's exhausting
Vaanie wrote: "I'm so relieved to read this review. I honestly am struggling through this book. There is no depth, no plot, no character, and she has asking so much of the reader, every chapter you have to commit..."Yup. That's how I felt too. I mean if you don't feel like it at all, you can always stop reading and pick up something more engaging. :)
Your review has been so helpful for me. I used to read every book I started right through to the end, as if it was my duty. The last few years I realized we only get one lifetime, so why waste it reading books we don't enjoy? These days, I will drop a book if I read a chunk of it and determine that the way it's written is too obnoxious to continue. With that said, it's pretty rare for me to drop a book. I don't have to LOVE a book to read it through, and I have broad interests. Even if a book isn't quite my cup of tea, I will still read it through and appreciate the good in it. A book has to really rub me the wrong way for me to drop it.
I've been struggling with Girl, Woman, Other, unsure if I should drop it or give it a chance. I'm not very far into it at all...only halfway through Yazz's section. I don't like it so far, for all the reasons you describe, but because it is divided into separate character stories, I haven't been 100% sure if my problem is with the author's style and approach, or if it's just these characters. I thought there might be a chance that the author intended to write a couple narcissistic characters at the beginning, but would somehow contextualize and deepen with an overarching narrative that builds through the characters that come later.
It sounds like that just doesn't happen, and if I don't like what I've read so far I will probably be further disappointed by the rest of the book. It's too bad. I heard such good things about this one, and I really wanted to be drawn into it. But it just reads like a laundry list of why each character is an awesome zany genius. They read like manic pixie dream girls, which is a weird comparison because MPDGs are usually written by and for the benefit of men and male characters, which isn't the case here. Even so, Amma and Yazz read like MPDGs because they seem like the author's fantasy of the coolest women ever, but it's all surface and they completely lack depth of character or believability. They just don't feel like real people at all, and I keep asking myself...why am I reading this?
I'm gonna drop it. Thank you for your review!
Molly wrote: "Your review has been so helpful for me. I used to read every book I started right through to the end, as if it was my duty. The last few years I realized we only get one lifetime, so why waste it..."
Thanks for sharing your thought process with us! I totally get how you feel. I rarely DNF books and more often than not I feel like I "have" to give every book another chance. But then, just like you said, I try to remind myself that my time here is precious. I would rather spent it on books I enjoy or that teach me something.
If you didn't like the first two chapters of this particular book, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't enjoy the rest of it either ... it's all written in the same style and none of the characters feel real. So I think you're making a smart decision switching to another book! :)
Hi people well we all know that this book is all about girls and women.😘😘😘😘😘
As harsh as your review is, I cannot help but concur with most of it. As a 3rd generation British-African woman, I have grandparents who had a not so similar but relatable migration to England as Hattie and Slim (but not really because my grandparent's had a deeper tie to Africa). As I read on discovering the different characters the more and more I just could not connect with any of them. The only thing I could relate to was her referencing the song ' My boy lollipop' from the 60s - My grandma loved that song.
I totally get her intention, but the characters seemed forced, fake and phoney. Just like the Live Aid Charity era, which painted a whole continent of people as poverty stricken, in need of a white saviour to feed the world with patronising propaganda, Evaristo is shedding light on a very narrow, very obtuse and ignorant perception of black women with African heritage. In fact I think her cultural knowledge is extermemly external. It's like reading someone write about what they THINK African woman's lives are like rather than from experience. I do get the understanding though that Evaristo is biracial as only the biracial characters seemed somewhat real to me.
It's a pander book. Pandering to people from the western culture who want to know more about African Diaspora. And you won't get the real deal of that from this book. Read Zadie Smith's White Teeth instead.
Anne-Marie wrote: "As harsh as your review is, I cannot help but concur with most of it. As a 3rd generation British-African woman, I have grandparents who had a not so similar but relatable migration to England as..."
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I have always wanted to read more from Zadie Smith, I might check out White Teeth. So thanks for the recommendation as well!
I completely agree with this review. I feel like for all the good points this book has (being centred around solely black/mixed race people, all women or non-binary, touching on contemporary social issues) all of that was trivialised by how it was presented. The characters felt two dimensional, and therefore all of their struggles, challenges, and traumas felt insignificant, and as though they had been included for the sake of it. It felt like forced representatives of contemporary tropes, and very tokenistic at times. Also I cannot agree more that there could be so much more to a book like this than just sex and romance, I get it's a big aspect of a lot of people's lives, but where's the depth?
Maz wrote: "I completely agree with this review. I feel like for all the good points this book has (being centred around solely black/mixed race people, all women or non-binary, touching on contemporary social..."Yeah, this book really didn't sit right with me. For a novel, that is so clearly character-driven it's quite frustrating how flat all the characters were.
I picked up this book with high expectations. And I honestly could not even get past the first chapter and then I felt bad. I don’t like to quit a book. Reading your review though has me relieved. Thanks for taking the time to write your thoughts on the book.
Sanwali wrote: "I picked up this book with high expectations. And I honestly could not even get past the first chapter and then I felt bad. I don’t like to quit a book. Reading your review though has me relieved...."
No problem. :) There's no shame in quitting a book, your time and attention is worth too much to be spend on books you don't enjoy!
