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I don't think there's a substantial difference, really. A lot of people will argue that the book and the author are two different things, but I've been going through EG recently after having read it 10-12 years ago, and I can see a lot more of his character in the book than I recognized in that first read. That's mostly because I was unaware of his views and other writing, so what I read before and thought, "Well, that's a bit odd..." now I realize is the product of his beliefs.
Still, I take your point. A lot of people do want to make the distinction, even if it is a somewhat haphazardly applied one....
THAT said, I'm not really of the opinion that the covert presentation of homophobia is going to TURN someone homophobic, or that the clandestine militarist agenda of EG is going to turn someone into a pro-war political thinker. One is inclined one way or another... and those who are likely to tip one way could as easily tip the other, and those of firmer ideas are going to be largely unaffected. So, I'm not terribly worried about that underlying agenda. As long as people are informed, they are good to go.
As an author, I can say that quite a bit of self gets into what I write. That said in a militaristic setting things are very familiar. children thrust into that setting still have an immature side. Making someone else feel uncomfortable when you're trying to build yourself up is, regrettably, something kids often do without even realizing it.
Agreed, Allan. In a typical situation, I'd go with that standard male/male banter and derision that goes on in locker rooms and such-like places.
Knowing what I know about OSC's views on homosexuality, however, a lot of little tidbits in his work start to seem more about his own fantasies than about characterizing "military" dynamics. Take, for instances, this little tidbit:
"Ender Wiggin, the little farthead who leads the standings, what a pleasure to have you with us." The commander of Rat Army lay sprawled on a lower bunk wearing only his desk.
Wait a second. He's "[w]earing only his desk" for some reason? The kid is naked in his bunk greeting people who just stroll in? That's a little weird.... I've been in barracks/dorms before. Some guy sitting around naked is a little odd.
I don't think it's the kind of thing that most people notice unless they are aware of it. There are an awful lot of those little bits in the book. Heck, the title of the thing is a euphemism for anal sex....
But, again, that probably slips past most readers, so I don't think it should necessarily mean an 11-year-old shouldn't read the book.
Gary wrote: "Agreed, Allan. In a typical situation, I'd go with that standard male/male banter and derision that goes on in locker rooms and such-like places.
Knowing what I know about OSC's views on homosexua..."
I did not read Enders game before I published my first novel. One of my characters surnames is Enders, I intended nothing when I chose it randomly.
I agree, I wouldn't have written it the way Card had. While I thought it disturbingly odd I took it as a form of intimidation using open sexuality than any homoerotic motive by Card. Knowing of his personal stance on the matter, to me, underscores his
I might suggest that in today's modern day and age, homosexuality is accepted as a norm, and this should be encouraged, and in Ender's Game, it seemed very much like a very normal thing, as it should be. The story isn't about Ender having a relationship with another boy, Ender doesn't even get in a relationship in the story in the first place, except for paternal ones, and the biggest imo being with the girl, whatsHerName >_>. From this perspective, I believe that it is something that a child should be encouraged to read even if there were hints of homosexuality in the book, as it would encourage him to push away homophobic thoughts...
Ummm, I don't think you understood that the homoeroticism in the book is not the "good" kind.
Exactly, F/Lname. Homoeroticism and pubescent boys.... There's a line there. Again, though, I don't think MOST people recognize it in EG, so I doubt the average 11-year-old will even recognize it, and I seriously doubt reading OSC is going to proscribe any particular gender-oriented behavior.... However, I'm not a parent, and I know folks are touchy about that kind of stuff, so I think it's worth bringing up. In sum, I don't think I'd recommend the book to most people....
Most "children's books" are really meant for an adult reader to get as well. The Wizard of Oz is really about economics. (The film adaptation is a Freudian nightmare....) Gulliver's Travels is about imperialist Britain. With that kind of thing in mind Ender's Game is more than a bit problematic....
I do not think it was intended to be homoeroticism so much as based on the horror stories of all-boys' schools everywhere.
The basis of boys' school horror stories *is* homoerotic.
Yup, it really is. A boy's school "horror" story is based on the concepts of sexual power and dominance. It plays upon the fear of sexuality, sublimates it into aggression and then casts it as "boys will be boys" run amok. That might not be something easy to reconcile with the forces of denial that seem to go along with it, but that's what it is.
See, for example, The Lord of the Flies or A Separate Peace or the film Taps. (Or you could read Ender's Game again....)
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I don't think there's a substantial difference, really. A lot of people will argue that the book and the author are two different things, but I've been going through EG recently after having read it 10-12 years ago, and I can see a lot more of his character in the book than I recognized in that first read. That's mostly because I was unaware of his views and other writing, so what I read before and thought, "Well, that's a bit odd..." now I realize is the product of his beliefs.Still, I take your point. A lot of people do want to make the distinction, even if it is a somewhat haphazardly applied one....
THAT said, I'm not really of the opinion that the covert presentation of homophobia is going to TURN someone homophobic, or that the clandestine militarist agenda of EG is going to turn someone into a pro-war political thinker. One is inclined one way or another... and those who are likely to tip one way could as easily tip the other, and those of firmer ideas are going to be largely unaffected. So, I'm not terribly worried about that underlying agenda. As long as people are informed, they are good to go.
As an author, I can say that quite a bit of self gets into what I write. That said in a militaristic setting things are very familiar. children thrust into that setting still have an immature side. Making someone else feel uncomfortable when you're trying to build yourself up is, regrettably, something kids often do without even realizing it.
Agreed, Allan. In a typical situation, I'd go with that standard male/male banter and derision that goes on in locker rooms and such-like places.Knowing what I know about OSC's views on homosexuality, however, a lot of little tidbits in his work start to seem more about his own fantasies than about characterizing "military" dynamics. Take, for instances, this little tidbit:
"Ender Wiggin, the little farthead who leads the standings, what a pleasure to have you with us." The commander of Rat Army lay sprawled on a lower bunk wearing only his desk.
Wait a second. He's "[w]earing only his desk" for some reason? The kid is naked in his bunk greeting people who just stroll in? That's a little weird.... I've been in barracks/dorms before. Some guy sitting around naked is a little odd.
I don't think it's the kind of thing that most people notice unless they are aware of it. There are an awful lot of those little bits in the book. Heck, the title of the thing is a euphemism for anal sex....
But, again, that probably slips past most readers, so I don't think it should necessarily mean an 11-year-old shouldn't read the book.
Gary wrote: "Agreed, Allan. In a typical situation, I'd go with that standard male/male banter and derision that goes on in locker rooms and such-like places.Knowing what I know about OSC's views on homosexua..."
I did not read Enders game before I published my first novel. One of my characters surnames is Enders, I intended nothing when I chose it randomly.
I agree, I wouldn't have written it the way Card had. While I thought it disturbingly odd I took it as a form of intimidation using open sexuality than any homoerotic motive by Card. Knowing of his personal stance on the matter, to me, underscores his
I might suggest that in today's modern day and age, homosexuality is accepted as a norm, and this should be encouraged, and in Ender's Game, it seemed very much like a very normal thing, as it should be. The story isn't about Ender having a relationship with another boy, Ender doesn't even get in a relationship in the story in the first place, except for paternal ones, and the biggest imo being with the girl, whatsHerName >_>. From this perspective, I believe that it is something that a child should be encouraged to read even if there were hints of homosexuality in the book, as it would encourage him to push away homophobic thoughts...
Ummm, I don't think you understood that the homoeroticism in the book is not the "good" kind.
Exactly, F/Lname. Homoeroticism and pubescent boys.... There's a line there. Again, though, I don't think MOST people recognize it in EG, so I doubt the average 11-year-old will even recognize it, and I seriously doubt reading OSC is going to proscribe any particular gender-oriented behavior.... However, I'm not a parent, and I know folks are touchy about that kind of stuff, so I think it's worth bringing up. In sum, I don't think I'd recommend the book to most people....Most "children's books" are really meant for an adult reader to get as well. The Wizard of Oz is really about economics. (The film adaptation is a Freudian nightmare....) Gulliver's Travels is about imperialist Britain. With that kind of thing in mind Ender's Game is more than a bit problematic....
I do not think it was intended to be homoeroticism so much as based on the horror stories of all-boys' schools everywhere.
The basis of boys' school horror stories *is* homoerotic.
Yup, it really is. A boy's school "horror" story is based on the concepts of sexual power and dominance. It plays upon the fear of sexuality, sublimates it into aggression and then casts it as "boys will be boys" run amok. That might not be something easy to reconcile with the forces of denial that seem to go along with it, but that's what it is.See, for example, The Lord of the Flies or A Separate Peace or the film Taps. (Or you could read Ender's Game again....)
Contentwise, I think the violence and themes are something an average 11-year-old could handle.
I've never been one to give much credence to the argument that the term Buggers in the context of the novel was intended to be or can be read as a gay-bashing slur. Nor have I seen much weight in the rather Freudian analysis of some of the Battle School scenes.
That said, I'm not sure I would buy it for my child. But that's an ethical discussion well covered elsewhere.