"About the Thenardier siblings: I read an analysis on this point somewhere that perhaps it's Hugo's way of saying, "Look, there are still miserable people out there and it's up to you what you're going to do with them." I think it's a charming idea. The last time those two mentioned the older one took care of the younger compassionately, and I love that scene so much."
Thanks, Listra. That would make sense about Hugo's intentions.
"I also think about Valjean the same way as you do. I mean, he's like torturing himself. Believe me or not, in real live there are people who choose the same way of torturing themselves as well."
Oh, it's not hard at all for me to believe. I think many of us have done that at one point or another in our lives. :)
"They are trapped between despair and desire (in Jean's case, it's the desire to still be Cosette's father). I was just mad when I read that part."
Yeah, I was pretty frustrated as well. I loved the way Hugo wrapped up the story with Thenardier dishing to Marius, but I was mostly infuriated with Valjean's spiral downward.
"Marius, well, there are some points that I love in him."
Yes, Marius has a lot of good qualities too. I just brought up the ones I didn't like. ;)
"1) His determination when he went out of his grandfather's house. He might be a proud bloke but he lived up to his pride. He's quite admirable in the third volume, before he met Cosette, that is."
Yes, that was all admirable, including the way he revered his father after learning more about him.
"2) He treated Cosette as a lady. He didn't take advantage of Cosette's naivety. I feel a chaste and sweet love between the two and I love that."
I loved that too. A heady but innocent romance. Yes, Marius behaved like a real gentleman, and his letter to Cosette was even poetic.
"Certainly, I don't really like him in the end. Your 1st and 3rd point being my greatest reasons."
I liked the way he finally embraced Valjean (then again, who wouldn't have?), but was miffed that it was too late and that Marius had already pushed him over the edge.
"I also don't understand why Marius despises Jean. I mean, the fact that he confesses all his crime to Marius is enough to tell him that this man has changed for good."
Hugo says that Marius wasn't totally progressive yet, so that explains a lot of it. It was Marius's pride--and prejudice, to use that cliche.
"Also Cosette's childhood story (if she tells it) would reveal the excessive kindness that Jean shows towards Cosette. Not mentioning Marius' own experience watching Jean giving money to the Thenardiers."
Yeah, Marius was a bit thick. :P
"I love the guys in the barricade. I know some students who talk about change and do nothing to make it happen. But the Amis are different."
I liked their enthusiasm, but they just seemed so out of control in the end to me. What I didn't like was the pages and pages Hugo went into when introducing the ABC Society. I thought his detailed descriptions of each member were kind of pointless and boring, because it was difficult to care about any of them at that point.
"I am more concerned about how Hugo seems to make an impression that the insurrection was in vain. I just feel that way. It's like, "They are dead, so, now what?" sort-of thing."
IIRC he basically sympathizes with the rebels, saying that while their uprising was kind of futile, it was hard to blame them for trying--that their hearts were perhaps in the right place.
"But in reality things like that happened, right?"
I would imagine. I'm no expert in French history, but then again, after reading all the stuff that Hugo threw at us, maybe I really am!! LOL.
"There are so many things that we can think about when reading Les Miserables."
Amen to that. If LM is food for thought, then we could easily be munching for months and months!! ;)
Thanks, Listra. That would make sense about Hugo's intentions.
"I also think about Valjean the same way as you do. I mean, he's like torturing himself. Believe me or not, in real live there are people who choose the same way of torturing themselves as well."
Oh, it's not hard at all for me to believe. I think many of us have done that at one point or another in our lives. :)
"They are trapped between despair and desire (in Jean's case, it's the desire to still be Cosette's father). I was just mad when I read that part."
Yeah, I was pretty frustrated as well. I loved the way Hugo wrapped up the story with Thenardier dishing to Marius, but I was mostly infuriated with Valjean's spiral downward.
"Marius, well, there are some points that I love in him."
Yes, Marius has a lot of good qualities too. I just brought up the ones I didn't like. ;)
"1) His determination when he went out of his grandfather's house. He might be a proud bloke but he lived up to his pride. He's quite admirable in the third volume, before he met Cosette, that is."
Yes, that was all admirable, including the way he revered his father after learning more about him.
"2) He treated Cosette as a lady. He didn't take advantage of Cosette's naivety. I feel a chaste and sweet love between the two and I love that."
I loved that too. A heady but innocent romance. Yes, Marius behaved like a real gentleman, and his letter to Cosette was even poetic.
"Certainly, I don't really like him in the end. Your 1st and 3rd point being my greatest reasons."
I liked the way he finally embraced Valjean (then again, who wouldn't have?), but was miffed that it was too late and that Marius had already pushed him over the edge.
"I also don't understand why Marius despises Jean. I mean, the fact that he confesses all his crime to Marius is enough to tell him that this man has changed for good."
Hugo says that Marius wasn't totally progressive yet, so that explains a lot of it. It was Marius's pride--and prejudice, to use that cliche.
"Also Cosette's childhood story (if she tells it) would reveal the excessive kindness that Jean shows towards Cosette. Not mentioning Marius' own experience watching Jean giving money to the Thenardiers."
Yeah, Marius was a bit thick. :P
"I love the guys in the barricade. I know some students who talk about change and do nothing to make it happen. But the Amis are different."
I liked their enthusiasm, but they just seemed so out of control in the end to me. What I didn't like was the pages and pages Hugo went into when introducing the ABC Society. I thought his detailed descriptions of each member were kind of pointless and boring, because it was difficult to care about any of them at that point.
"I am more concerned about how Hugo seems to make an impression that the insurrection was in vain. I just feel that way. It's like, "They are dead, so, now what?" sort-of thing."
IIRC he basically sympathizes with the rebels, saying that while their uprising was kind of futile, it was hard to blame them for trying--that their hearts were perhaps in the right place.
"But in reality things like that happened, right?"
I would imagine. I'm no expert in French history, but then again, after reading all the stuff that Hugo threw at us, maybe I really am!! LOL.
"There are so many things that we can think about when reading Les Miserables."
Amen to that. If LM is food for thought, then we could easily be munching for months and months!! ;)
Thanks for your comments, Listra.