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Perhaps books are the only place some girls ever are made aware of the dangers in life. The violent sex scenes were hard for me to read in this book, but so necessary to the character development. I read Valley of the Dolls in high school. I feel it helped me mature and become aware of the dangers in the world.
Valley of the Dolls was pretty tame by comparison of this book. I felt in some ways we were going step by step through a rape scene. I remember Valley of the Dolls and there are only two scenes that I would say constitute rape but the writing was really weak on the outrage of the act. In fact I remember the character (the model/dancer) being only annoyed.
I just feel like a freshmen is too young for this book. 14 is pretty young, and while the world forces them to grow up faster and faster I think we are doing them a disservice.
But I will say I will be a very happy person when the only violent sex in the world is on the page!
It's beyond me how people won't let their kids read these books and advocate for Twilight. I'll never understand people's values. Twilight teaches that there is no moral outcome for being suicidal, selfish, or violent as long as you feel sort of bad. Tattoo teaches a lot of values that are beyond Meyer. Do people honestly think 14 year olds don't see far more inventive sex and violence than is in this set of books?
I agree that these books play towards the more mature audience. However, rape it a terrifying thing. People don't take it seriously, and Larson was aware of this, the man was very much for women's rights and made a point of writing that scene in because its something that many people don't think is a huge deal. I myself wrote a very detailed rape scene for a script I worked on about 3 months ago. People asked why I did this, I told them "Because people need to see the ugly side to understand the seriousness." There is also that matter that books like Twilight advocates for very unhealthy relationships, causing the reader to view them in a positive light. Larson showed that Lisbeth was not someone a little girl should aspire to be, though personally I admire her smarts and bravery. In the end, her relationships with people in general are sad, but very real, but it doesn't glorify the dark sides of humanity, it merely warns shines a light on a subject that many wouldn't touch with a 20 foot pole.
Annemarie wrote: "Valley of the Dolls was pretty tame by comparison of this book. I felt in some ways we were going step by step through a rape scene. I remember Valley of the Dolls and there are only two scenes tha..."
Catherine wrote: "Perhaps books are the only place some girls ever are made aware of the dangers in life. The violent sex scenes were hard for me to read in this book, but so necessary to the character development...."
I know that Valley of the Dolls is very tame compared to this book, however, for the time it was just as controversial. I have enjoyed this thread as it is a touchie issue and one many have to deal with.
Gordon, first off I wouldn't let my kid read Twilight for the same reason I won't let them eat McDonald's at every meal. Second, I think there's something to embracing childhood. All children are different and some mature fast while others slowly. Some mature through their own impetus while others are forced to by society and influence. I'd rather a daughter of mine learn about sex in books by actually looking at enjoyable sex as being a fun activity participated in by two grown and willing adults. I'd like to keep my 14 year old students away from the fact that there are men in the world who would abuse them and objectify them for as long as I can. Third, don't ever mention Twilight again, gross.
I don't have kids, but I have many students (many of which are young woman) we read about rape in the book Lucky and Speak. I think both those books bring up the reality and harshness of rape without being too graphic for my younger readers.
Annemarie wrote: "Gordon, first off I wouldn't let my kid read Twilight for the same reason I won't let them eat McDonald's at every meal. Second, I think there's something to embracing childhood. All children are d..."
That's a good choice as a teacher, personally I love Speak, one of my favorite books of all time. It was actually challenged in the south by some priest who claimed it contained "soft porn." I nearly hit the ceiling when I heard about that. I have couple book recommendations that work into the subject of Speak by well, give the author Ellen Hopkins a look, she is a very unique and interesting writer, and covers the topic teen struggles that involve depression, drug abuse, sex, religious bias in the family, and the suppression of homosexuality.
Are you kidding, Soft Core Porn? What was pornographic about that book? Yikes!
Thanks for the leads on the other books, I'm always trying to get more in there for my girls (and boys) to read. Actually I'm very proud I've had two boys pick up Speak this semester and loved it. I think books like this will help young boys turn into men who will speak out against sexual violence.
Thanks again Sara!
Annemarie wrote: "Are you kidding, Soft Core Porn? What was pornographic about that book? Yikes!
Thanks for the leads on the other books, I'm always trying to get more in there for my girls (and boys) to read. Actua..."
No problem, those kinds of books are a personal interest of mine. When I was younger I was bullied a lot so I turned to that genera of books to cope and get some ideas of how to deal with the people. It's good to see teenage boys taking an interest in a book that involves a female rape victim. Many of the guys I've met are very uncomfortable on the subject... You should also give Rolling the R's a look. Its a college base book, which I just finished for a comparative lit. class, but it's short and written in verse. I'm sure if it's appropriate or not for the age level you are teaching at. When I was 14 I was already reading some very adult books and some of my own stuff. So that's left for you to decide.
Thank you. Sorry you were bullied. We just finished Ally week at my school and it was very positive, the kids are very respectful of each other and it's touching to see this. I think there's a stigma that men feel when talking about sexual violence, which is understandable. They feel ganged up on, but really we can't stop violence until men start talking about the role their half of the species plays in it. I just finished the Macho Paradox, pretty good read. Also read Sold which was a book about child prostitution told in verse, very very upsetting.
Annemarie wrote: "Thank you. Sorry you were bullied. We just finished Ally week at my school and it was very positive, the kids are very respectful of each other and it's touching to see this. I think there's a stig..."
Oh, I loved "Sold." An enjoyable read, and a major eye opener. I read it after reading a novel in high school that basically detailed the life of a young Chinese farm girl name Lalu, who is sold by her family to Americans in the western gold mines. The book was called "A Thousand Pieces of Gold," a wonderful read.
I hope you enjoy at much as I did, it's really a wonderful read!
I love this thread. I have not read any of the books in this thread, but I will check them out. I just want to mention that there is usually a great deal of difference between 14 year old and 15 year old.
Catherine, could not agree with you more. I tell my students that the age difference between a freshmen and a senior is enormous, bigger than a 30 and 45 year old. Most of the time they can see it. But every teen is different.
Annemarie wrote: "Catherine, could not agree with you more. I tell my students that the age difference between a freshmen and a senior is enormous, bigger than a 30 and 45 year old. Most of the time they can see it...."
I remember when i was in high school. You could normally tell the difference between Freshmen and Seniors by their height difference, the fact that freshmen liked to socialize in the middle of the hallways, and the maturity difference. It was so palpable, you could cut it with a knife. Of course you've got the freshmen who actually look and act like seniors. Ooh the joys of high school.
HA! You are so correct! My hallways are a nightmare. Freshmen with enormous backpacks (which are back in style for some reason) stand in huge clumps clogging up the isle! As far as height goes, sister, I'm 5 even. They all dwarf me!
I'm so glad I tread the halls of college now. Everything is either outside or the schedules are so erratic, that you don't need to worry about crowding....The only thing you need to concern yourself with are the distance between buildings and getting run over by skateboarders and bicyclists.
HA! I love college! I'm just finishing my MA program and can feel myself having withdrawals... I'm going to have to get another master's degree within a year.
Annemarie wrote: "HA! I love college! I'm just finishing my MA program and can feel myself having withdrawals... I'm going to have to get another master's degree within a year."
I'm on my second term, and doing a dual enrollment at University and Community. I've also finally declared my major (English.) I actually prefer college over high school, less drama, more work but in big clumps so you can hash it out fast. High school was fun, but I find college to be less of a gossip place.
College is much much more fun than high school. I had a good time in high school, but you are exactly right - much much less drama (actually NO drama if you meet the right people and avoid the wrongs). The work is more meaningful and I like that you can focus on what is interesting and valuable to your study.
Annemarie wrote: "College is much much more fun than high school. I had a good time in high school, but you are exactly right - much much less drama (actually NO drama if you meet the right people and avoid the wron..."
Exactly, wooo college!
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Catherine
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Feb 05, 2012 04:28AM
Perhaps books are the only place some girls ever are made aware of the dangers in life. The violent sex scenes were hard for me to read in this book, but so necessary to the character development. I read Valley of the Dolls in high school. I feel it helped me mature and become aware of the dangers in the world.
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Valley of the Dolls was pretty tame by comparison of this book. I felt in some ways we were going step by step through a rape scene. I remember Valley of the Dolls and there are only two scenes that I would say constitute rape but the writing was really weak on the outrage of the act. In fact I remember the character (the model/dancer) being only annoyed.I just feel like a freshmen is too young for this book. 14 is pretty young, and while the world forces them to grow up faster and faster I think we are doing them a disservice.
But I will say I will be a very happy person when the only violent sex in the world is on the page!
It's beyond me how people won't let their kids read these books and advocate for Twilight. I'll never understand people's values. Twilight teaches that there is no moral outcome for being suicidal, selfish, or violent as long as you feel sort of bad. Tattoo teaches a lot of values that are beyond Meyer. Do people honestly think 14 year olds don't see far more inventive sex and violence than is in this set of books?
I agree that these books play towards the more mature audience. However, rape it a terrifying thing. People don't take it seriously, and Larson was aware of this, the man was very much for women's rights and made a point of writing that scene in because its something that many people don't think is a huge deal. I myself wrote a very detailed rape scene for a script I worked on about 3 months ago. People asked why I did this, I told them "Because people need to see the ugly side to understand the seriousness." There is also that matter that books like Twilight advocates for very unhealthy relationships, causing the reader to view them in a positive light. Larson showed that Lisbeth was not someone a little girl should aspire to be, though personally I admire her smarts and bravery. In the end, her relationships with people in general are sad, but very real, but it doesn't glorify the dark sides of humanity, it merely warns shines a light on a subject that many wouldn't touch with a 20 foot pole.
Annemarie wrote: "Valley of the Dolls was pretty tame by comparison of this book. I felt in some ways we were going step by step through a rape scene. I remember Valley of the Dolls and there are only two scenes tha..."Catherine wrote: "Perhaps books are the only place some girls ever are made aware of the dangers in life. The violent sex scenes were hard for me to read in this book, but so necessary to the character development...."
I know that Valley of the Dolls is very tame compared to this book, however, for the time it was just as controversial. I have enjoyed this thread as it is a touchie issue and one many have to deal with.
Gordon, first off I wouldn't let my kid read Twilight for the same reason I won't let them eat McDonald's at every meal. Second, I think there's something to embracing childhood. All children are different and some mature fast while others slowly. Some mature through their own impetus while others are forced to by society and influence. I'd rather a daughter of mine learn about sex in books by actually looking at enjoyable sex as being a fun activity participated in by two grown and willing adults. I'd like to keep my 14 year old students away from the fact that there are men in the world who would abuse them and objectify them for as long as I can. Third, don't ever mention Twilight again, gross.I don't have kids, but I have many students (many of which are young woman) we read about rape in the book Lucky and Speak. I think both those books bring up the reality and harshness of rape without being too graphic for my younger readers.
Annemarie wrote: "Gordon, first off I wouldn't let my kid read Twilight for the same reason I won't let them eat McDonald's at every meal. Second, I think there's something to embracing childhood. All children are d..."That's a good choice as a teacher, personally I love Speak, one of my favorite books of all time. It was actually challenged in the south by some priest who claimed it contained "soft porn." I nearly hit the ceiling when I heard about that. I have couple book recommendations that work into the subject of Speak by well, give the author Ellen Hopkins a look, she is a very unique and interesting writer, and covers the topic teen struggles that involve depression, drug abuse, sex, religious bias in the family, and the suppression of homosexuality.
Are you kidding, Soft Core Porn? What was pornographic about that book? Yikes!Thanks for the leads on the other books, I'm always trying to get more in there for my girls (and boys) to read. Actually I'm very proud I've had two boys pick up Speak this semester and loved it. I think books like this will help young boys turn into men who will speak out against sexual violence.
Thanks again Sara!
Annemarie wrote: "Are you kidding, Soft Core Porn? What was pornographic about that book? Yikes!Thanks for the leads on the other books, I'm always trying to get more in there for my girls (and boys) to read. Actua..."
No problem, those kinds of books are a personal interest of mine. When I was younger I was bullied a lot so I turned to that genera of books to cope and get some ideas of how to deal with the people. It's good to see teenage boys taking an interest in a book that involves a female rape victim. Many of the guys I've met are very uncomfortable on the subject... You should also give Rolling the R's a look. Its a college base book, which I just finished for a comparative lit. class, but it's short and written in verse. I'm sure if it's appropriate or not for the age level you are teaching at. When I was 14 I was already reading some very adult books and some of my own stuff. So that's left for you to decide.
Thank you. Sorry you were bullied. We just finished Ally week at my school and it was very positive, the kids are very respectful of each other and it's touching to see this. I think there's a stigma that men feel when talking about sexual violence, which is understandable. They feel ganged up on, but really we can't stop violence until men start talking about the role their half of the species plays in it. I just finished the Macho Paradox, pretty good read. Also read Sold which was a book about child prostitution told in verse, very very upsetting.
Annemarie wrote: "Thank you. Sorry you were bullied. We just finished Ally week at my school and it was very positive, the kids are very respectful of each other and it's touching to see this. I think there's a stig..."Oh, I loved "Sold." An enjoyable read, and a major eye opener. I read it after reading a novel in high school that basically detailed the life of a young Chinese farm girl name Lalu, who is sold by her family to Americans in the western gold mines. The book was called "A Thousand Pieces of Gold," a wonderful read.
I hope you enjoy at much as I did, it's really a wonderful read!
I love this thread. I have not read any of the books in this thread, but I will check them out. I just want to mention that there is usually a great deal of difference between 14 year old and 15 year old.
Catherine, could not agree with you more. I tell my students that the age difference between a freshmen and a senior is enormous, bigger than a 30 and 45 year old. Most of the time they can see it. But every teen is different.
Annemarie wrote: "Catherine, could not agree with you more. I tell my students that the age difference between a freshmen and a senior is enormous, bigger than a 30 and 45 year old. Most of the time they can see it...."I remember when i was in high school. You could normally tell the difference between Freshmen and Seniors by their height difference, the fact that freshmen liked to socialize in the middle of the hallways, and the maturity difference. It was so palpable, you could cut it with a knife. Of course you've got the freshmen who actually look and act like seniors. Ooh the joys of high school.
HA! You are so correct! My hallways are a nightmare. Freshmen with enormous backpacks (which are back in style for some reason) stand in huge clumps clogging up the isle! As far as height goes, sister, I'm 5 even. They all dwarf me!
I'm so glad I tread the halls of college now. Everything is either outside or the schedules are so erratic, that you don't need to worry about crowding....The only thing you need to concern yourself with are the distance between buildings and getting run over by skateboarders and bicyclists.
HA! I love college! I'm just finishing my MA program and can feel myself having withdrawals... I'm going to have to get another master's degree within a year.
Annemarie wrote: "HA! I love college! I'm just finishing my MA program and can feel myself having withdrawals... I'm going to have to get another master's degree within a year."I'm on my second term, and doing a dual enrollment at University and Community. I've also finally declared my major (English.) I actually prefer college over high school, less drama, more work but in big clumps so you can hash it out fast. High school was fun, but I find college to be less of a gossip place.
College is much much more fun than high school. I had a good time in high school, but you are exactly right - much much less drama (actually NO drama if you meet the right people and avoid the wrongs). The work is more meaningful and I like that you can focus on what is interesting and valuable to your study.
Annemarie wrote: "College is much much more fun than high school. I had a good time in high school, but you are exactly right - much much less drama (actually NO drama if you meet the right people and avoid the wron..."Exactly, wooo college!
