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message 1: by Maxi (new)

Maxi I don't quite understand your question. Could you extrapolate?


message 2: by Kristin (new)

Kristin They are their own species basically. Why would they be limited to human coloring? They aren't white, red, black or yellow. They are vampire. Their coloring wouldn't necessarily reflect the human population.


 ~*~Princess Nya Vasiliev~*~ I get your logic Kristen, but the fact that Ward uses human race, ethinic features/characteristics to describe these Vamps, that kinda throws that logic out of the water. They obviously have varying races etc.. that they are born from. If they didn't, then all of them would look exactly the same. Would they not? Kinda like how Aliens resemble each other.


 ~*~Princess Nya Vasiliev~*~ Sorry I misspelled your name Kristin. My stupid phone. LOL


message 5: by Kristin (new)

Kristin Do we all look the same?


message 6: by Kristin (new)

Kristin I'm sure the virgin scribe created them to blend in with humans but they are still a very different beast. Hypothetically we all evolved from the same origin and still have differences. It doesn't matter if you credit that to creationism or something else.


 ~*~Princess Nya Vasiliev~*~ Like I said, I get what you're saying Kristin, they are Vampire. Not human. Not really. But the fact that Ward/Scribe Virgin created them to "blend" as you say, with the Human population, she obviously made them to mirror a variety of races. That's all I'm saying. The fact they look human & resemble humans of different races, are described in looking certain ways is testiment to that. So I can see how the conversation of race/ethnic backgrounds etc.. would come into play. Cos even though they are something "Other" they are still described/defined to a certain degree, within Human standards.


 ~*~Princess Nya Vasiliev~*~ That's why I used the compariosn of Aliens. If she truly wanted them to look/be set apart from other races etc.. she would have made them resemble more of what their nature represents and not that of their human counterparts so much. That's just what I think though.


message 9: by Kristin (new)

Kristin The alien thing doesn't fly with me either, though. The only alien appearances we have to go on are human creations. I am sure actual aliens would have variations too. Although knowing humans, we'd still probably not see the individual, just the differences that scare us.


 ~*~Princess Nya Vasiliev~*~ Yeah some will ALWAYS see differences and based on their fear or ignorance of those differences, will always proceed accordingly. Whether that be in the fiction or the real world. But it's those rare individuals who can still see and acknowledge/discuss those differences without allowing those things to influence their take/liking/opinion about the individual beneath. :)


 ~*~Princess Nya Vasiliev~*~ .....They (we) set the example. And unfortunately, in many cases regarding this subject are the exception rather than the rule.


message 12: by karinova (new)

karinova Er, but they do interbreed. ALL of the vampires save Wrath are part human. This is mentioned repeatedly; it's pretty hard to miss! Also, Beth is half human. Ditto Butch. Tohr is at least a quarter human.

They've been mixing with humanity for centuries. They were doing that before they ever left the Old Country. And now they're in the most racially diverse part of the US, still doing it (even though it's vaguely frowned upon). So my thought is, why WOULDN'T they pick up some of those characteristics?


 ~*~Princess Nya Vasiliev~*~ I agree Karinova.. as I said earlier in this thread "Well, this doesn't bother me. I guess on a larger scale when u think about it, there has to be Vamps that come from all ethnic backgrounds considering how populated the world is, but the trend I think, is that most authors who write these types of books, write characters with whom they are comfortable with writing about. I think it has nothing to do with race per se, it's just that they write what they know & that's it......" I don't think it should matter. It's obvious there are vamps of different races etc.. But if the fact that there aren't enough minorities in the genre for some, then I think peeps need to just use their imaginations on that & make the characters what they envision. That's the beauty of reading right? Imagination. But for me, I don't care about the race of a character. If the story is interesting & the characters are as well. Then that's what I'm interested in.


message 14: by Kristin (new)

Kristin Agreed.


message 15: by Maxi (new)

Maxi ~*~Princess Nhya~*~ and Kristen,

The reason race in books matters to me is because in western literature the default is always white, and white people have the privilege of not having to use their imaginations, as you put it, to enjoy the books. This irritates me because any somewhat decent author would put in the little extra effort to include all, or at least some, people who do not adhere to the "dominant we"–the majority. The near complete erasure of different ethnicities, specifically the ethnicities of the women in the series, ruins the believability of the world the author creates. J.R. Ward's racial blindspot is her biggest downfall.


message 16: by Maxi (new)

Maxi Karinova, I agree with you about interracial liaisons between vampires and humans being "vaguely frowned upon" for reasons relating to what is described about the vampires' heritage. I picked up an insidious old money type of rhetoric in the tone of the narrative. Also, I would like to know at what part in the books you were made racially aware of the story and characters, because I found it interesting that you would bring that up.


message 17: by Kristin (new)

Kristin People are supposed to write what they know and in the world where everything is held under a microscope I don't blame most authors for playing it safe. What we really need are more people supporting authors of diverse backgrounds. And no one who reads fails to use their imagination. That would be the people who never read. But I understand your frustration. I rarely picture everything the author describes. I'm influenced heavily by my own experiences and tend to picture whatever makes my brain happily lazy.


message 18: by Kristin (new)

Kristin And as far as interbreeding...maybe the vampires were racist. Not a stretch considering the elite vampires are speciest.


message 19: by Maxi (new)

Maxi I agree with you Kristen, and it's not about being able to be lazy and not use one's imagination–it's about representation and the lack thereof. I think that the excuse that the author only writes what she knows can only be used up to a certain point, because a GOOD author would do research and thoroughly develop a dynamic world with dynamic characters.


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