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New "find at" links on book pages
With the last release we changed our "find at" links that appear on our book pages. I wanted to make sure everyone knew our reasoning for doing so.
Amazon recently updated their Terms of Service for developers, and at their behest we have changed our book page to conform to the new terms of service (which go into effect August 15). Much of our book data (especially our book covers) comes from Amazon, which is why we are required to make this change.
The term in question is:
The order of the book links can still be customized, however e-commerce sites will not show up on the book page, but instead on the "more options.." link found to the right of the Amazon link. Non e-commerce book links will still show up on the book page, which is why many of you might see WorldCat as an option.
I can understand Amazon's reasoning in this change, as their API and affiliate program both exist as ways to increase their revenue, and it makes sense they'd act in their own interest. Goodreads owes a debt of gratitude to Amazon for this, as you would not believe the price to purchase book meta-data from other sources. Amazon's price (free, but with strings attached) - is actually pretty good - not to mention we actually make some money from affiliate fees! As to why book meta-data is expensive in the first place, that's a rant for another day - just suffice it to say that it's mind-bogglingly illogical.
In other areas however I'm not sure Amazon's thinking is so clear. For instance, Goodreads is expressly not allowed to build an iphone app as long as we use Amazon data. We aren't the only ones - see a recent Techcrunch article about Delicious Library's app being pulled. Here is the term that prevents this:
Happily for us, web-based mobile sites are fine - which is why we've been putting time into improving our Mobile Site. Note that we did try to apply for permission, and were rejected.
Amazon has done a great job sparking innovation with it's Product API and Affiliate Program. It's sad to see that trend starting to be reversed.
Here's a screenshot of what the new links look like. We added a nifty icon too:
Amazon recently updated their Terms of Service for developers, and at their behest we have changed our book page to conform to the new terms of service (which go into effect August 15). Much of our book data (especially our book covers) comes from Amazon, which is why we are required to make this change.
The term in question is:
(d) You will link each use of Product Advertising Content to, and only to, the related Product detail page of the Amazon Site, and you will not link any Product Advertising Content to, or in conjunction with any Product Advertising Content direct traffic to, any page of a site other than the Amazon Site (however, parts of your application that are not closely associated with Product Advertising Content may contain links to sites other than the Amazon Site).
The order of the book links can still be customized, however e-commerce sites will not show up on the book page, but instead on the "more options.." link found to the right of the Amazon link. Non e-commerce book links will still show up on the book page, which is why many of you might see WorldCat as an option.
I can understand Amazon's reasoning in this change, as their API and affiliate program both exist as ways to increase their revenue, and it makes sense they'd act in their own interest. Goodreads owes a debt of gratitude to Amazon for this, as you would not believe the price to purchase book meta-data from other sources. Amazon's price (free, but with strings attached) - is actually pretty good - not to mention we actually make some money from affiliate fees! As to why book meta-data is expensive in the first place, that's a rant for another day - just suffice it to say that it's mind-bogglingly illogical.
In other areas however I'm not sure Amazon's thinking is so clear. For instance, Goodreads is expressly not allowed to build an iphone app as long as we use Amazon data. We aren't the only ones - see a recent Techcrunch article about Delicious Library's app being pulled. Here is the term that prevents this:
(e) You will not, without our express prior written approval requested via this link , use any Product Advertising Content on or in connection with any site or application designed or intended for use with a mobile phone or other handheld device.
Happily for us, web-based mobile sites are fine - which is why we've been putting time into improving our Mobile Site. Note that we did try to apply for permission, and were rejected.
Amazon has done a great job sparking innovation with it's Product API and Affiliate Program. It's sad to see that trend starting to be reversed.
Here's a screenshot of what the new links look like. We added a nifty icon too:
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Personal attacks don't work well either, bowerbird. There's no call for that.
Who is Bowerbird - no books, no friends, no groups, been a member for 6 months.... Troll?
Or an alt, pulled out for occasions like this one. I agree with Cyn -- the personal attacks are not helpful.
my goodness, goodness gracious.what i have said -- you can buy books wherever you choose --
should've been patently obvious to all of you from the outset...
(and yes, i realize that most members here realized that fully,
which is why they weren't bothering to bitch and moan here.)
but you'd rather rail at goodreads, and call me a "troll", instead of
facing that simple fact. so much for being a "social" network, and
now you can figure out why i've made so few commitments here...
-bowerbird
this "discussion" is too low-quality for me to continue.-bowerbird
p.s. it's pretty clear you people just want to kick a dog. :+)
Dear Otis, Elizabeth, et al,
I hope you can either find another datasource or that Goodreads can negotiate individual terms with Amazon. Amazon are the one site who definitely know the difference between being "1-Click" or two clicks away and want to make sure they're the only choice for most people who will not click through to the other choices.
Amazon seem intent on taking over all the interesting book-related parts of the internet -- and then, as they become increasingly just a basic supermarket, everything else in a very Walmart-type fashion and while we sometimes sell remainders through them, the same way we do with other used book stores and sites, I have an economic and cultural interest in them not being the only choice available.
We use Goodreads widgets on our site, Small Beer Press -- I used to use LibraryThing until Amazon bought a stake in it and insisted that the widgets linked only to Amazon -- and have encouraged other people to join the site but will perhaps stop pushing it so much. We do not link to Amazon on our site.
Sending readers and book buyers to sites other than Amazon is important to us because of Amazon's:
— near-monopoly position in online bookselling
— distributor-level discounts from publishers
And: supporting indie stores is important as it encourages many voices instead of one monolithic voice.
I like Goodreads as it is a non-pushy form of social media and hope to keep using it. I don't know that I would pay much to subscribe but since I tend to advertise in magazines (Bitch, Conjunctions, F&SF, Mystery Scene) and on sites I like or that are a good fit for our books (Facebook, Google Adwords, Bookslut) I had expected to advertise on Goodreads in spring when our Holly Black collection comes out as the site is a natural fit. I wish Goodreads the best of luck in finding a way to deal with the 800lb online gorilla.
I hope you can either find another datasource or that Goodreads can negotiate individual terms with Amazon. Amazon are the one site who definitely know the difference between being "1-Click" or two clicks away and want to make sure they're the only choice for most people who will not click through to the other choices.
Amazon seem intent on taking over all the interesting book-related parts of the internet -- and then, as they become increasingly just a basic supermarket, everything else in a very Walmart-type fashion and while we sometimes sell remainders through them, the same way we do with other used book stores and sites, I have an economic and cultural interest in them not being the only choice available.
We use Goodreads widgets on our site, Small Beer Press -- I used to use LibraryThing until Amazon bought a stake in it and insisted that the widgets linked only to Amazon -- and have encouraged other people to join the site but will perhaps stop pushing it so much. We do not link to Amazon on our site.
Sending readers and book buyers to sites other than Amazon is important to us because of Amazon's:
— near-monopoly position in online bookselling
— distributor-level discounts from publishers
And: supporting indie stores is important as it encourages many voices instead of one monolithic voice.
I like Goodreads as it is a non-pushy form of social media and hope to keep using it. I don't know that I would pay much to subscribe but since I tend to advertise in magazines (Bitch, Conjunctions, F&SF, Mystery Scene) and on sites I like or that are a good fit for our books (Facebook, Google Adwords, Bookslut) I had expected to advertise on Goodreads in spring when our Holly Black collection comes out as the site is a natural fit. I wish Goodreads the best of luck in finding a way to deal with the 800lb online gorilla.
when you are sitting in the stupid corner...
folks, just bookmark your favorite bookseller.
there's no reason you have to click on the
amazon link on the pages of this site. ok?
you just spoiled the vacation of otis and
elizabeth for no good reason, none at all.
-bowerbird