more cookie time: Here's Your Mary Sue

more cookie time: Here's Your Mary Sue:

yaflash:



naamahdarling:



homoeroticismforthewin:



adventuresofcomicbookgirl:



Looks like this essay was needed, so I went ahead and did it. Not sure I said everything I wanted to say, but I tried.


So, there’s this girl. She’s tragically orphaned and richer than anyone on the planet. Every guy she meets falls in love with her, but in between torrid romances she rejects them all because she dedicated to what is Pure and Good. She has genius level intellect, Olympic-athelete level athletic ability and incredible good looks. She is consumed by terrible angst, but this only makes guys want her more. She has no superhuman abilities, yet she is more competent than her superhuman friends and defeats superhumans with ease. She has unshakably loyal friends and allies, despite the fact she treats them pretty badly.  They fear and respect her, and defer to her orders. Everyone is obsessed with her, even her enemies are attracted to her. She can plan ahead for anything and she’s generally right with any conclusion she makes. People who defy her are inevitably wrong.


 God, what a Mary Sue.


I just described Batman.


  Wish fulfillment characters have been around since the beginning of time. The good guys tend to win, get the girl and have everything fall into place for them. It’s only when women started doing it that it became a problem.




READ THIS I BEG OF YOU.



FUCKING. NICE.



I mean really



Okay, let me be clear: I LOVE THIS POST and everything it has to say, and I’d like to see more of these (akin to Maureen Johnson’s cover flip?).


That said… oh lawd, please don’t come at me with knives, but I have one tiny quibble: I’m not sure this is an accurate description of Batman. It’s a great description of the Batman of yore. But the Batman of Frank Miller’s Dark Knight? Of Nolan’s Batman trilogy? These are men plagued by physical limitations (though Nolan’s Batman apparently has one hell of a chiropractor) and character deficiencies that inform their journeys and DO undermine their relations with others.


This doesn’t change any of the impact or value of the original post. Like I said, it’s a quibble. Batman STILL embodies wish-fulfillment. So does Han Solo. So does Jack Reacher. And there’s no question that genres dominated by male wish-fulfillment are treated with greater tolerance and less condescension than genres that give primacy to female desires and characters.


I think that post-modern (or post-post-modern or whatever the hell) wish-fulfillment looks slightly different than old-school wish-fulfillment and it’s worth considering that in the way that people respond to perceived “Mary Sues.” But whichever Batman is on the page, he’s still probably going to get a fairer shake than a female protagonist. And don’t even get me started on Hawkeye.

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Published on August 27, 2013 19:13
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message 1: by Jenny Lynn (new)

Jenny Lynn No knives here. I was actually thinking the same thing after the Batman reveal. He's definitely not as perfect anymore as he used to be, which is a good thing in my opinion.
But yeah, the ladies of literature do tend to get the fuzzy end of the lollipop more so than their male counterparts. I'm actually trying to work on my more visceral reactions to female protagonists and their faults when I read and when I write (I've currently got a minor character in a book I'm writing that's just kind of evil and I'm trying to come up with some way not to just make her a stock villain the whole time. It's hard though).
And now I'm done with my weird rambling. Please enjoy your regular programming.


message 2: by Leigh (new)

Leigh Bardugo Oddly enough, the last female character I remember responding to truly negatively (in that visceral, irritated, this goes beyond the narrative way) is Rita from Dexter.

As for your character, is her cause convincing? I mean, if you sat across from her at a pub, would she be able to talk you into saying, "Huh, that's not such a bad idea"?


message 3: by Jenny Lynn (new)

Jenny Lynn So far she's just catty, mean, and a little possessive. I think she's mainly just there to be a foil for my protagonist. The way she's written now, I don't think she could talk me into anything. I'm having a hard time trying to make her a more rounded character and not just a static bad guy.

P.S. Writing is hard (but then I'm sure you know that).


message 4: by Leigh (new)

Leigh Bardugo Well, does that give her some place to go over the course of the book? I like stories where the hero/heroine isn't the only one with a character arc.

Good luck!!


message 5: by Jenny Lynn (new)

Jenny Lynn Thanks! That's definitely something I've been contemplating. I'd love to have a scene worked in where they both get a little drunk and discuss where all their animosity comes from and maybe even become friends for half a second. I would just have to figure out where to fit that in.
But thank you so much for the advice! Hopefully I'll figure out these characters soon.


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