Relationship dynamics/Where will gay fiction go?

I once spoke with a gay author who read some excerpts from "Bright", and politely informed me about how gay readers are tiring of gay fiction being mostly about gay erotica and indiscriminate gay "encounters". He did not like the way the characters "Monty" and "Walter" seemed to fall all over each within a day or 2 of meeting, and admittedly stopped reading my excerpts when he came to the first kiss scene in the dugout.

The thing is, "being gay" is still a matter of controversy in the world. I completely realize that gay people are tired of their orientation being "sensationalized" and put thru a microscope, but the very words "gay" and "homosexual" and "lesbian" are not only about identity, they are about sexuality. How can a film be a "gay" film if it's not about their sexual identity in some capacity? You don't have to show sex scenes or erotica, but the very word "gay" in film or in literature carries that sexual identity with it. I think that once the world decides that gay people are "just like anyone else" and that their sexual lives are no more or less interesting than the rest of the world's, maybe "gay" fiction will read like anything else.

"Bright" is a different story than "Crush." Crush was about the aftermath of sexual, physical and emotional abuse, and the consequence of mistrust, fear of intimacy and vulnerability, and recovery from self hate in children.

In Bright, neither of the 2 principals suffers from "fear" of sex. Neither of them has to tackle the issue of distrust or fear of each other. They both fear other people, but from the start, Monty and Walter are so comfortable with each other that they almost immediately become intimate.

In Crush, it took 16 years, albeit because they were physically separated too, but really, Tammy and Jamie were so traumatized and so afraid of homophobic ridicule that it impeded them being together. Crush is proof that I don't write stories about gay men just jumping each other's bones 5 mins. after they meet LOL.

I don't want to spoil Bright too much yet, but the fact is, M and W are different people than T and J. Their story is different and their reactions to what's happening are different. This story will not be so much about sexual abuse/molestation and child abuse (although there is an incident of rape and a history of one of the characters being spanked quite often by his parents) as much as it is about spiritual abuse, the abuse that occurs within fanatically religious homes.

The other themes of Bright are suicide/suicidal behavior, insecurity and doubt in each other's love, and jealousy and covetousness. Yes, there is erotica, and yes, M&W really do hook up soon in comparison with T&J, but a huge part of the story is how powerful their sexual connection is, and how they love each other so much it both thrills and scares them, and how some people keep searching for happiness when it is right there in front of them. The 2 are immediately bound when Monty nearly dies after crashing into the river.

In response to my friend's remarks, I have made the decision to write at least one more gay fiction novel. I have been watching and reading a lot of material about the kidnapping cases of Jaycee Dugard, Adam Walsh, Etan Patz, and Polly Klaas. If I'm to prove that not only are gay people "regular" people like all of us, but that bad things happen to them too. The premise is, a married gay couple's son is kidnapped. There's no place for erotica in a story like this, and I think it would make an excellent story for anyone seeking gay fiction that isn't about sex. It will be a few years before this one comes to fruition, but I'm sure it will be a good one :)
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Published on February 06, 2013 05:26
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message 1: by [deleted user] (new)

I'm not sure how things will develop in gay fiction and I centainly hope that romance, the good high quality kind, continues to thrive, but I think things have hit a point where there isn't much quality to go around, which is why I deeply appreciate books like Crush are obviously written with care.

Looking forward to Monty and Walter's story, sexual encounters and all.


message 2: by Laura (new)

Laura Susan Johnson Lauraadriana wrote: "I'm not sure how things will develop in gay fiction and I centainly hope that romance, the good high quality kind, continues to thrive, but I think things have hit a point where there isn't much qu..."

Thank you so much!!! :)


message 3: by Laura (last edited Feb 06, 2013 06:35AM) (new)

Laura Susan Johnson Borrowing a quote from Jamie, "It is never God's will for children to be hurt, or violated, or worse..."

The novel about the child abduction will not have any violence either. It will mostly be about the horrific grief and frustration and questioning why "God" allows such sickening things to happen, and about how homophobic society will taunt this couple, saying they deserve this since they are "evil" gays. Also it will be about the arrest and court trial, but still no details of violence. After Crush, I can't bear to write violence against children again.

Lauraadriana, are you familiar with Twin Shadow??? I have added 3 of his songs to my "dream" Bright music list. He's awesome!!!


message 4: by [deleted user] (new)

Laura wrote: "Borrowing a quote from Jamie, "It is never God's will for children to be hurt, or violated, or worse..."

The novel about the child abduction will not have any violence either. It will mostly be ab..."


I have not, but I am just about to walk to a meeting so will look for him on Spotify and have a listen :) Thanks for the rec I love discovering new artists!


message 5: by Laura (new)

Laura Susan Johnson He's from the DR. He has an awesome new wave sort of sound. He sounds like he's from the 80s!


message 6: by Laura (new)

Laura Susan Johnson Thank you, Edina :) I enjoy some gay erotic romance, but yes, I agree, when it's really shallow, you can feel it. I wanted Crush to be much more than 2 men having sex. The sex is fun, yes, but it's placed into this particular story to illustrate the recovery these 2 made after such horrible childhoods.


message 7: by Debbie (last edited Feb 07, 2013 07:24AM) (new)

Debbie McGowan I wanted Crush to be much more than 2 men having sex. The sex is fun, yes, but it's placed into this particular story to illustrate the recovery these 2 made after such horrible childhoods.

I think you actually do this very well Laura, although I don't agree with you when you say "the very words "gay" and "homosexual" and "lesbian" are not only about identity, they are about sexuality". True, society associates the identity with the sex act (in terms of 'homosexual', but 'gay' and 'lesbian' could indicate 'homoromantic'), but within fiction we can explore and look forward to a future where this is not so.

Perhaps I'm hoping too much of our readers?


message 8: by Laura (new)

Laura Susan Johnson "Homoromantic" might have been a better choice to explain myself. No you're not hoping too much. :) Although erotica is fun and many readers seek it out to read it, it's entirely possible to write a book about gay people without including sex scenes.

The gay author I spoke with wrote a book about his relationship with a gay man with disassociative identity disorder (MPD).


message 9: by Debbie (new)

Debbie McGowan Yes, it is possible to write a book about gay people without sex scenes... (can't say more than this - spoilers)

Sounds like an interesting book (the gay author with the partner with DID) - is it published?


message 10: by Larry (new)

Larry Benjamin I have to say I was enraged by your second paragraph. As a writer and a gay man I am completely put off by your assertion that “the very words "gay" and "homosexual" and "lesbian" are not only about identity, they are about sexuality.”
I don’t agree. And as a gay man I think I ought to know: being gay, lesbian, homosexual is about attraction, it’s about who you want to hold hands with, who you want to go to prom with. Sex is an outgrowth of attraction, an expression of something. And yes, sometimes it’s just a primal urge but surely not all the time, not every time, not exclusively.
I think we’re seeing this change in the larger world, so why is gay fiction so slow to change and reflect the fact that as gay men and women we are more than disembodied sexual parts seeking other parts in all kinds of unlikely places.


message 11: by Laura (new)

Laura Susan Johnson I agree with you Larry, and I'm sorry I offended you. That wasn't my intention at all. I obviously expressed my thoughts badly.
Therefore, I will either delete this blog post or reword it.


message 12: by Debbie (new)

Debbie McGowan I accept your point Larry, but do think there is some validity to this assertion, although as regards the stereotyping of a homogenous gay community by the heterosexual (political) majority (certainly here in the UK). That said, some identities (gay male, bisexual) are more sexualised than others, and this is something that is coming through far too much in m/m fiction. On the other hand, the heterosexual public at large also appear more comfortable with the notion of gay men as one-dimensional sexual beings and I get the feeling that they are the people reading 'gay erotica' (they certainly seem to be the ones who are writing it).

As authors, regardless of our gender or sexuality, perhaps we have a moral obligation to challenge these stereotypes, although the same can also be said of the persistent portrayal of heterosexual women as weak females in need of strong men in traditional romance novels. Thus, are we looking at the systematic objectification of gay men in much the same way as women are / were objectified in pornography?

I just did that social scientist thing again. Sorry! :) I'll bow out now!


message 13: by Laura (new)

Laura Susan Johnson I think one of the biggest reasons I've always been turned off by hetero romances is that the men are always so one dimensional. They always seem to be arrogant, condescending to the women, and of course they've bedded and deflowered tons of women before meeting the heroine, who is always an emotionally and sexually immature simpleton with heaving bosoms who has never masturbated or explored sexuality in any way. Naturally, when she meets "our" hero, he introduces her to orgasmic bliss while she in turn, makes him "believe in love" for the first time in his life. Gawd.

Yes, many gay erotica books seem to be about the men being interested in sex and not much else. I read and enjoyed "Not His Kiss To Take" but I admit, it's not the sort of thing I want to read constantly.

I'm also thinking of writing romantic fiction with female characters who are not hourglass figures with perfect tiny waists, heaving boobs and the mentalities of 2 year olds LOL but with real women...overweight women, divorced women, women with children, women with mental illness or drug problems...and help get rid of the female romance stereotype too. Just an idea :)


message 14: by Debbie (new)

Debbie McGowan Yeah - go for it!

I love your analysis of hetero romances!


message 15: by Larry (new)

Larry Benjamin Laura wrote: "I agree with you Larry, and I'm sorry I offended you. That wasn't my intention at all. I obviously expressed my thoughts badly.
Therefore, I will either delete this blog post or reword it."


Laura please don't delete this blog--blogs are about exploring different points of view. I'm not mad at you--I'm just a bit sensitive. Give me a litttle bit to organize my thoughts and I'll post a more lucid response re my earlier response


message 16: by Laura (new)

Laura Susan Johnson I didn't delete but I decided I needed to do a new post to be less generalizing. I think my post did come off as a bit presumptuous in hindsight. I thought you were mad at me...I just have a thin skin too, that's all :) I told Debbie I'm a little weepy in mood these days anyway...seasonal depression.

Thank you for your response...I'm sighing in relief I didn't totally alienate you :)


message 17: by Larry (new)

Larry Benjamin Laura wrote: "I didn't delete but I decided I needed to do a new post to be less generalizing. I think my post did come off as a bit presumptuous in hindsight. I thought you were mad at me...I just have a thin s..."

No worries. We're good. I just saw your most recent post but thought I'd refrain from commenting there, though I do agree with your viewpoint and explanations. I slept on yesterday's "conversation" and decided rather than hijack your blog, I would post about my feelings on the matter. I hope you don't mind but I referenced (and linked to both) your blog posts)


message 18: by Rebecca (new)

Rebecca Oh Laura I don't know if I could read a story about a missing child! Sounds so terrible!


message 19: by Laura (new)

Laura Susan Johnson It will be difficult. I'm still debating on whether it will be a novel or a short story.


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