A Little Kindness
I'd like to ask a favor, please...
I'm just about done with the last edits on Show Me Yours, my second free Love is Always Write story. In avoiding those edits (because I loathe revising and am always looking for excuses to delay it) I've looked at some of the other LiAW stories that have come out. There are some wonderful pieces of work, and others less to my taste. But already, there is more great free reading than I have time for.
The other less-pleasant thing that struck me as I looked around was how many of them had at least one pretty-harsh review.
I want to ask you all, as you read these, to remember what this M/M Romance writing event is about.
Some of us are professionals - you have every right to expect my writing to be up to whatever standards you are looking for. If you don't like my style, if you hate one of my characters, disbelieve my plot, get bored or, hell, if you hate the color of socks my MC wears, feel free to review my story as harshly as you choose. Almost every story I've ever written has received 1-star ratings from someone. That's your right and privilege. Maybe you'll warn off other readers who hate pedantic language or green socks. Go for it.
But some of the writers for this event are putting their work in the public eye for the very first time. We ask them to do this. As Group members, we coax, and encourage, and tell them how much fun it will be. We push them to expose their creative baby to the world even if they're feeling a little unsure. And they do.
People who have never written a short story before work for a month and a half, and then tentatively, anxiously, and with tender pride, present the result to us. For free.
And some reviewers are writing reviews with one star, or exclamations points and bold letters about how wrong/bad/not to their taste the story was. I'm a pro and these would be painful for me, but they'd be part of the deal. For these new writers it seems unfair.
I'm not asking you to lie and say a story you didn't like was wonderful. I'm definitely not asking you to perjure yourself or misrepresent your tastes. All I'm asking for is a little kindness towards the amateurs and first-timers who are giving you the gift of their efforts.
Before you rate a story you didn't like, go look at the author page. If this is the only story listed, if the author has never charged anyone for their writing, be kind. If you hate the story, do you really even need to write that review? No one is losing money buying these. If someone else is going to hate it too, they'll know soon enough. If that review is going to be all about the story's failings, maybe you can just mark it as "read" and move on.
If you're determined to write your analysis of a story and it's not favorable, be polite. Don't highlight and underline it. If you can, round your stars up and not down. Find something, anything, that you did like to mention. These new writers spent many, many hours of effort, sweat and emotion in the creation of their story. (If you think that's an exaggeration, you go write one and see how demanding that first effort can be.) Perhaps in your eyes they failed. But give them some leeway and courtesy for the effort. It was a gift to you. You don't have to like it, but don't throw it back in the giver's face.
Please keep it generous, keep it kind, so I can feel truthful next year when I say to a newbie, "Try it. It's a lot of fun."
I'm just about done with the last edits on Show Me Yours, my second free Love is Always Write story. In avoiding those edits (because I loathe revising and am always looking for excuses to delay it) I've looked at some of the other LiAW stories that have come out. There are some wonderful pieces of work, and others less to my taste. But already, there is more great free reading than I have time for.
The other less-pleasant thing that struck me as I looked around was how many of them had at least one pretty-harsh review.
I want to ask you all, as you read these, to remember what this M/M Romance writing event is about.
Some of us are professionals - you have every right to expect my writing to be up to whatever standards you are looking for. If you don't like my style, if you hate one of my characters, disbelieve my plot, get bored or, hell, if you hate the color of socks my MC wears, feel free to review my story as harshly as you choose. Almost every story I've ever written has received 1-star ratings from someone. That's your right and privilege. Maybe you'll warn off other readers who hate pedantic language or green socks. Go for it.
But some of the writers for this event are putting their work in the public eye for the very first time. We ask them to do this. As Group members, we coax, and encourage, and tell them how much fun it will be. We push them to expose their creative baby to the world even if they're feeling a little unsure. And they do.
People who have never written a short story before work for a month and a half, and then tentatively, anxiously, and with tender pride, present the result to us. For free.
And some reviewers are writing reviews with one star, or exclamations points and bold letters about how wrong/bad/not to their taste the story was. I'm a pro and these would be painful for me, but they'd be part of the deal. For these new writers it seems unfair.
I'm not asking you to lie and say a story you didn't like was wonderful. I'm definitely not asking you to perjure yourself or misrepresent your tastes. All I'm asking for is a little kindness towards the amateurs and first-timers who are giving you the gift of their efforts.
Before you rate a story you didn't like, go look at the author page. If this is the only story listed, if the author has never charged anyone for their writing, be kind. If you hate the story, do you really even need to write that review? No one is losing money buying these. If someone else is going to hate it too, they'll know soon enough. If that review is going to be all about the story's failings, maybe you can just mark it as "read" and move on.
If you're determined to write your analysis of a story and it's not favorable, be polite. Don't highlight and underline it. If you can, round your stars up and not down. Find something, anything, that you did like to mention. These new writers spent many, many hours of effort, sweat and emotion in the creation of their story. (If you think that's an exaggeration, you go write one and see how demanding that first effort can be.) Perhaps in your eyes they failed. But give them some leeway and courtesy for the effort. It was a gift to you. You don't have to like it, but don't throw it back in the giver's face.
Please keep it generous, keep it kind, so I can feel truthful next year when I say to a newbie, "Try it. It's a lot of fun."
Thanks for the thoughtful comments. My main purpose was to try to point out what kind of event this was, to those who might be unaware, so they could place the stories appropriately on their continuum of standards to which they hold the work. Some people may not have a continuum, but a fixed standard. That's their privilege. I work with some teens putting their writing out in public for the first time. I treat it gently. I have a continuum. For me, given the structure and constraints on these stories, those of first-time-writers come in the category that I give just a little more care to on the low end of the ratings.
You are right that some of my phrases were infelicitous. In trying to point out the differences I perceive between some of these new authors and those of us who write for self pub or professionally, I gave in to the temptation to be glib.
I simply feel that there are ways to phrase a bad review that make it less personal, or less absolute, and this is a time to make those choices. I respect the fact that some people do not.
BTW -it's totally off topic, but I have to say I love your avatar name - I saw it pop up on my email, and had to come see the pic that went with it.
Kaje wrote: "Penny wrote: "Hmmm. I have mixed feelings on this one because my first story will be posted as part of the LiAW event. Here's the thing, I want people to be honest, because I'd like to learn from t..."Thanks Kaje. I wish that for everyone too. On the whole though, I think the M/M Group is a pretty supportive crew.
Isa wrote: "Dani wrote: "I can't help but wonder if you're doing it wrong!"Neurological condition ^.^ Vibration is like white noise to me I guess. But that's okay. Vibrators are for uncreative people *lol*"
Isa- It's not just you. :)
Kaje, I only read a few of the first comments, so this may seem out of the blue. But I'm unclear on what exactly is going on here. Are these newbie stories being turned into ebooks and given their own GR listing? And is this where these disparaging reviews are showing up? Or are they showing up in the comment on the post within the MM romance community?If the latter, I'd agree that's in poor taste (although as you say, every member's 'right'). But honestly, it sounds as though these are being listed on GR as their own books, which basically puts them out for review. I wonder if maybe it isn't such a wise idea for Jen (or whoever) to be doing that, especially for newbie, nervous authors? I mean, that essentially *is* an act of publication and is setting them up.
I think probably that new writer's works should not be made automatically available to the general GR community. I'm not sure that anyone but another author can know just how difficult it is to learn to write well (editing can polish, but it can't write the story).
If this gets bad enough, maybe we should bring this up with whoever runs this series...? To at least make the GR listing an option?
Oco wrote: "Are these newbie stories being turned into ebooks and given their own GR listing?"Yes. I see on your profile that you wrote a story for the Stuff My Stocking event. It's basically the same event that's going on, except without the Xmas theme. Hope that clarifies the matter.
Oco wrote: "To at least make the GR listing an option?"
Wouldn't do any good. Someone else will make a book page for it anyhow once they come across it.
I put these newbie stories on the same level as fanfiction. Fanfiction are "legit" enough for GoodReads to document them. And goodness readers don't hesitate to negatively review a fanfic if it suck if I know anything about the fanfic community. Same kind of deal here with these original fics.
Actually, Exp, the "Stuff my Stocking" was released as anthology, not as individuals, and each author individually agreed to be included. And although readers CAN make entries, they won't unless the story is one that at least some people love. Also, since the MM romance group is private, the entry would have to link back to a site that only MM romance members could get to.And if readers created an ebook -- well, that would be copyright infringement, which of course we all know doesn't happen, and I'm sure you aren't advocating.
Oco wrote: "And although readers CAN make entries, they won't unless the story is one that at least some people love."Going to put on my GoodReads Librarian hat here and say that is against GoodReads' rule. If the story was only released in an anthology and never as a stand-alone, a book page cannot be created for the story alone.
Oco wrote: "Also, since the MM romance group is private, the entry would have to link back to a site that only MM romance members could get to."
Regardless of the group's status, the stories the MM-rom group release are not private... AFAIK. Moreover, I cannot think of a rule that forbids member for making a book page for private stories.
Not sure how those comments relate to the discussion at hand. Sorry. Maybe it's just me missing all the excitement of in-between comments, but it feels sort of like you're bobbing a cat-toy in front of me to rile me up, but... I'm not a cat. Think I'll wander off, thanks. :)
Oco wrote: "Not sure how those comments relate to the discussion at hand. Sorry. Maybe it's just me missing all the excitement of in-between comments, but it feels sort of like you're bobbing a cat-toy in fron..."I'm saying your suggestion to "at least make the GR listing an option" is futile. The discussion is heated, but I don't believe I am actively radiating any particular hostility. I apologize if you find it differently. If you'd like, I would be open to hearing how my words should be more civilly put. I don't intend to deliberately antagonize anyone here.
Blip wrote: "authors working together to silence reader reaction to controversial blog posts asking readers to be nice to author peers."I don't know about any other authors but from knowing Dani I'm pretty sure he didn't have any nefarious plan to silence reader reaction. I've become friends with him and he's pretty genuine.
Utterly Huggable Quills wrote: "I wasn't on the fence before but your post made me closer to joining those who are. While I can understand what you are asking for and why, and although I may keep this post in mind when I get arou..."You said exactly what I was thinking. I wasn't trying to put words in anyone's mouth but wording of the post made it come across a certain way. It didn't feel, to me, like a favor was being asked. It felt like a lot of the posts that have been coming from authors lately. Hence me grouping it in with those other posts.
I couldn't agree more, the ability to down shots and roll up one stars in order to smoke them, are important life skills as a writer! What's more, given time, I'm sure that these are skills that even I could excel at. :D
Do I have anything sensible to add to the discussion, not really, I just couldn't resist sticking my head in. Peace all, it's bloody hard being a writer and showing your work to others, but if readers aren't honest we get nowhere. Personally if I didn't like the work enough to give it a reasonable rating, I wouldn't admit to having read it. But I'm a writer, I have to step carefully, it comes with the job (along with the one star joints and rows of shots!).
Do I have anything sensible to add to the discussion, not really, I just couldn't resist sticking my head in. Peace all, it's bloody hard being a writer and showing your work to others, but if readers aren't honest we get nowhere. Personally if I didn't like the work enough to give it a reasonable rating, I wouldn't admit to having read it. But I'm a writer, I have to step carefully, it comes with the job (along with the one star joints and rows of shots!).
♥Laddie♥ wrote: "I don't know about any other authors but from knowing Dani I'm pretty sure he didn't have any nefarious plan to silence reader reaction. I've become friends with him and he's pretty genuine."I'd say exactly the same thing about Kage. :) As she said in an earlier comment, some of her word choices were a bit infelicitous in the larger context, but I know her heart was in the right place.
Blip wrote: "Just because someone's heart is in the right place doesn't make everything okay and rainbows and unicorns. Kaje is a woman with a heart of gold and it makes me mad when she, from the depths of that..."I'm sorry you feel it was inappropriate to ask. I guess I'm not as polite as you'd wish, because I do that - if I'm in a cafe and someone is belittling someone else, using harsh words and making them feel bad, I will sometimes ask them to stop, even if they're strangers. If some young kid just starting on the job has someone yelling at them about how incompetent they are and what swill they've produced, I might ask that person to give the kid a break. I have a right to ask, I think, just as they have a right to tell me to get out of their face and out of their business.
Maybe I made them think differently about how their words have struck an observer, maybe I've just made them mad. But how can I not ask? So when I think harsh reviews have gone beyond what is justified in this particular unusual situation I did the same. The LiAW writers can't ask to have their stories not listed for review at all. That's not an option once you publish on GR. They have to take whatever is dished out. I was hoping that people might be mindful, if reminded of how this event works. I'm sorry if that felt coercive to you.
Blip wrote: "There's a phrase about hell and good intentions. I'm sure the efforts (and I believe they were efforts) to steer the conversation into a fun romp about sex were "well intentioned" but still intentioned to stop the heated discussion (silence readers taking issue with again being told asked to behave a certain way)."I ignored your first comment about this because I thought it wasn't worth the effort to address a ridiculous accusation, but since you seem bound and determined to let everyone know how badly you are being oppressed I've changed my mind.
Grow up.
There has been no "heated discussion" here. Someone posted an opinion, a bunch of people disagreed. Everyone got to express themselves as much as they wanted, everyone's opinion was heard, people agreed to disagree respectfully and then because most of us know each other and are used to commenting on each other's statuses and reviews we went back to talking amongst ourselves. That's all.
I'm sorry we didn't sway and fall down at your feet for blessing us with your opinion, but if you think that's shutting down a conversation then you must get shut down a lot. Where I come from we call this having a conversation like adults, they're not about one side senselessly beating another until "the winner" is clear. If that's what you expect you are hanging out with the wrong group of people in this post.
I commented on your status update because I wanted to make you feel comfortable in this conversation. To show that even though we disagree, I wasn't offended by you speaking your mind, felt you spoke well and was sure that others felt so too. Now I see that was a mistake because it only fed into your persecution complex.
And you know what's really ironic about this? NONE of the people who disagree with Kaje have actually written the type of review she's talking about, including yourself. So why is it so important that we all hate each other, scream, pull hair, etc when we can sit back and talk about porn instead? Why is that such an offensive idea?
Kaje, you seem to have placed yourself in the position of mentor to these new writers. That's your choice. Where it crosses the line for most of us is that you want other readers to take on that same role either by providing positive feedback, giving a higher rating to improve morale or at the very least not saying anything that might reduce someone's self confidence. Sorry, but I don't participate on GR to train or encourage young writers. That's not MY choice. So asking me to change how I rate or review a story is you trying to coopt me for your own agenda, it's not just you asking people to be courteous.
The solution to people not being crushed by negative comments or poor ratings is to leave the stories as threads in the m/m group rather than give them individual book pages. Once they are out in the wilds of GR they take their chances along with every other writer.
The solution to people not being crushed by negative comments or poor ratings is to leave the stories as threads in the m/m group rather than give them individual book pages. Once they are out in the wilds of GR they take their chances along with every other writer.
Kate wrote: "The solution to people not being crushed by negative comments or poor ratings is to leave the stories as threads in the m/m group rather than give them individual book pages. Once they are out in the wilds of GR they take their chances along with every other writer...."
Unfortunately even the ones that are on the threads only are also out to be rated, whether the writer would prefer it or not. Anything can be and is listed, with or without the writer's okay, when a reader who chooses to read it decides to do that. We've seen that with non-LiAW stories in the past too. There is literally no way to prevent that or choose otherwise. Because Goodreads is for readers, they get to decide what is listed, just as you are fully in control of how you review. That's not a problem - that's just the way things are.
And perhaps the solution is to discourage new writers who do not feel confident about their work, rather than encouraging them to participate. You should feel free to do that.
All debate is people trying to change hearts and minds on a topic. I don't feel I need to apologize for trying to change your opinion of how to treat new unpublished writers in a group event, any more than you have to apologize for saying, nope, you're not going to do that. That's what discussion and debate is.
Blip wrote: "I'm sure the efforts (and I believe they were efforts) to steer the conversation into a fun romp about sex were "well intentioned" but still intentioned to stop the heated discussion (silence readers taking issue with again being told asked to behave a certain way)."I had also decided to let this go, until you came back and pushed your agenda onto me.
It's not often I get angry, especially at a reader, but I don't appreciate people ascribing motives to my behavior that just aren't there. At no time did I try to change the subject purposefully to silence anyone.
Lori K was upset and angry, I wanted to make her laugh. That's who I am and what I'm about, it's what I always do.
At no time in any discussion have I ever sought to silence anyone. And nothing I've said here prevents anyone from continuing their discussion. I just chose/choose not to take part in that part of the discussion.
Kaje wrote: "Thanks for the thoughtful comments. My main purpose was to try to point out what kind of event this was, to those who might be unaware, so they could place the stories appropriately on their conti..."I do understand because I once held the same view. It is funny how people change over time. In a way, I still feel as if some of the reviews are just too cruel, but I also want to respect the rights of those who post them. I just ignore the ones I feel go overboard. Have I written stuff that might be considered such? Yes, depending on at what degree you draw the line. It's one of the reasons why my resolution this year was to rewrite some of my reviews from last year. Alas, I'm not doing so well with my New Year's Resolutions. :)
Thanks, Kaje. I was trying to find a quirky name to go with the avatar and just followed the theme from my last handle. :)
Utterly Huggable Quills wrote: "Thanks, Kaje. I was trying to find a quirky name to go with the avatar and just followed the theme from my last handle. :) .."
Well you succeeded.
I do understand where you are all coming from with readers' rights to free speech. That is undeniable.
I hadn't meant to open this can of worms at all about reviews, because I'm on the free speech end most of the time. I feel anyone has a right to comment on my stuff in any way they see fit, as long as there is no hate-speech involved. Even the folks who put "1-star horrible sinful homosexual plot line" on my reviews are entitled.
I think the problem for me was that I did see these stories more as gifts from the writers. The event is set up so a readers asks, "Dear Author, please write me a story with this guy and X, Y and Z in it!" and the author spends a month fitting X,Y,Z, and the guy into a story, comes back and posts it for free and says, "Here you are, I hope you like it." The stories are currently available to the group only (other than the downloadable ones) so everyone rating these should be a member and aware that these are reader-request stories. So when a newbie made this their first writing effort, I felt it deserved a little less harshness. Obviously others disagree. Their right.
And I think I did go along with the side-tracking in relief that the topic was being derailed for our amusement. Because to that point everyone, those who agreed and those who felt I was out of line, had been civil and well-spoken in their opinions. It was a relief to think our opinions were out there, and the topic was closing without a flame-war or unforgivable things being said.
So Blip is right in my regard, I was ready to shut discussion down. I felt like everything had pretty much been said, and we were at the point of diminishing returns. And I love Dani's humor. It seemed like a win.
Thanks for the post, Kaje!That's something I've been thinking about for a while now and I agree with what you said.
Last year, during the Hot Summer Days event, I came across some stories that I thought hadn't been so good. Considering how the stories came into being and that some of them were written by readers just for the fun of it without any intent to publish to a bigger audience or even for money, I decided not to rate them.
To me it's a question of politeness (meaning not always say what one thinks) to not "look a gift horse in the mouth" and throw the gift back into the givers face. I'll say thank you for your effort and smile and that's it.
I don't have qualms to speak my mind in a review if the book is published or selfpublished in the usual way and the author should have known what they were getting themselves into when they asked me to pay money for the right to read their story.
And now please stop me before I start on how simple politness is the reason we individuals can live together in a social enviroment...
ETA: Didn't see your last post. Essentially this, yes. *nods*
I kind of feel like it's a bit inappropriate to ask people to hold off on their reactions to something they spent their time (which for some of us can be more valuable than the $2.99) reading.
I know this has been thoroughly discussed, but I felt I'd put my two cents in. I like your books Kaje, and I think you're awesome to spend so much of your time in the YA group, however I feel it's kind of a bit too much to ask people to not say what they think.
If these authors are not ready to receive criticism, then they should probably refrain from publish their work (free of cost or otherwise).
This genre is becoming riddled with amateur authors that are not doing much for it other than bringing the quality down. There are spaces for people who are getting their feet wet to publish their work without feeling like they are being scolded publicly, fictionpress, smashwords, livejournal...Why not use that as a soundboard? Well because with the M/M group they automatically get a lot of exposure to people that buy books compulsively. So getting that kind of spingboard for your work has to come at a cost.
These writing events are great, but if you are starting to write and want to use the M/M Group as a platform to get your writing read by hundreds of people that probably would not otherwise than there must be some sort of catch...I mean goodness, if the writing is BAD, it's bad, no matter how nice you are. Bad writing is bad writing. If I go to a free dinner at a restaurant and I get food poisoning you better believe I'm going to complain!
Didn't mean to beat the dead horse deader...but there it is.
I know this has been thoroughly discussed, but I felt I'd put my two cents in. I like your books Kaje, and I think you're awesome to spend so much of your time in the YA group, however I feel it's kind of a bit too much to ask people to not say what they think.
If these authors are not ready to receive criticism, then they should probably refrain from publish their work (free of cost or otherwise).
This genre is becoming riddled with amateur authors that are not doing much for it other than bringing the quality down. There are spaces for people who are getting their feet wet to publish their work without feeling like they are being scolded publicly, fictionpress, smashwords, livejournal...Why not use that as a soundboard? Well because with the M/M group they automatically get a lot of exposure to people that buy books compulsively. So getting that kind of spingboard for your work has to come at a cost.
These writing events are great, but if you are starting to write and want to use the M/M Group as a platform to get your writing read by hundreds of people that probably would not otherwise than there must be some sort of catch...I mean goodness, if the writing is BAD, it's bad, no matter how nice you are. Bad writing is bad writing. If I go to a free dinner at a restaurant and I get food poisoning you better believe I'm going to complain!
Didn't mean to beat the dead horse deader...but there it is.
What was your honest goal with this post? The people that agree with you already would be doing that. And the people that don't like being told what to do and having it be implied their unkind for being honest are obviously going to be offended by this.
I don't think anyone needed a reminder about what these stories are. Most you have to be logged into the mm group to even read. It's pretty obvious when you look at the photo and prompt what the author was working with. If they can't handle that they shouldn't have claimed the prompt.
I have been reading reviews and the fluffy positive ones far out weigh the few negative ones. If they can't handle that they really shouldn't be putting their work out for the public.
After this blog I hope you're not also the aspiring authors role model for being professional.
And you're wrong I don't get off being mean to people I just believe in posting my honest opinions.
I like expressing my opinion in my review however I want.
Your post won't change that just makes me lose even more respect you as an author.
Bubbles wrote: "What was your honest goal with this post? The people that agree with you already would be doing that. And the people that don't like being told what to do and having it be implied their unkind fo..."
I guess I just wanted to remind people that this event to me has a different quality than when people publish fiction on their own as self-pub. We promote it to new writers, we present it as an opportunity to participate in a low-pressure environment, we have readers making requests for some very specific stories that they want to see, a short time frame, and amateurs at all levels of production.
To me, this is a group event that was intended to be more fun and less serious. I wanted to encourage other people to consider keeping a little bit of that feeling in their reviews for those writers joining in for the first time.
After this blog I hope you're not also the aspiring authors role model for being professional.
Hell, I do too. I make a lot of mistakes. This blog post may have been one of them, although I hope not. I've spoken up asking for courtesy and kindness elsewhere, and that may be wrong too. I can only do my best, and in this case I felt my best included writing some kind of reminder that LiAW is not just another publishing venue for professional writers looking for publicity.
I like expressing my opinion in my review however I want.
Your post won't change that just makes me lose even more respect you as an author.
I'm sorry about that. But my self-respect has to come first, and speaking up when I think I should comes in that category. I certainly expect you to continue to do the same.
You promote to new writers, but you want to censor any negative feedback? For me I think if the "new writer" wants to grow in their writing craft they need to see both sides. Not just the "I loved it. So cute" side. I don't see being honest, even of its negative in the reviews as being mean. If they can't handle a couple negative reviews when the majority are positive they probably shouldn't write for public consumption.
.....you done trolling yet Bubbles? -_-;;;;;
Isa wrote: ".....you done trolling yet Bubbles? -_-;;;;;"
Wow for someone who consistently gets called out for exoressing her opinions I think calling Dane a Trolll either makes you amnesiav or a hypocrite.
Wow for someone who consistently gets called out for exoressing her opinions I think calling Dane a Trolll either makes you amnesiav or a hypocrite.
Bubbles wrote: "You promote to new writers, but you want to censor any negative feedback? For me I think if the "new writer" wants to grow in their writing craft they need to see both sides. Not just the "I loved ..."I don't want you to lie and say you loved it - you're right, that is a disservice to the writer and other readers. There is just a range at the bottom of the "I didn't like this" end, where you can be discouraging but kind - ("Although this book has some interesting characters, the writing is rough and full of POV shifts and needs more work.) Or you can be harsh. ("This was crap - I couldn't tell whose head I was in and didn't care.") I was asking people to just avoid the harsh end for newbies in this event.
Constructive criticism is helpful - I learned a lot from the negative points in my reviews, especially at first. But I didn't learn anything from the one that said, "Totally boring. I hated it. Crappy writing." (I had that - luckily not my first review, or I might have never published anything again. They had the right to say it, but it was harsh.)
I'd love the reviewers of these stories to be honest, be specific, but not harsh. But if the world bowed to my wishes, I'd be a millionaire.
You do as you see fit, that is your perfect right. Maybe someone else will look at this event in a little kinder light because of what I wrote, and to me that would be a good thing..
Kaje wrote: "Bubbles wrote: "You promote to new writers, but you want to censor any negative feedback? For me I think if the "new writer" wants to grow in their writing craft they need to see both sides. Not ju..."Fair enough. Not the tone I picked up reading your post at all but fair enough.
Isa wrote: ".....you done trolling yet Bubbles? -_-;;;;;"Let's not descend to name-calling on either side please.
Lauraadriana wrote: "Isa wrote: ".....you done trolling yet Bubbles? -_-;;;;;"
Wow for someone who consistently gets called out for exoressing her opinions I think calling Dane a Trolll either makes you amnesiav or a ..."
ditto
Bubbles made his points, I tried to answer them. Any chance we can be done now and keep it civilized?
Bubbles wrote: "Fair enough. Not the tone I picked up reading your post at all but fair enough. ..."I appreciate that. I guess I was unclear (a bad thing for a writer.)
And hey, Bubbles, I wrote a 63K story covering 69 years for this one without any flashbacks (I think.) I thought of you when I did it. :)
Kaje wrote: "And hey, Bubbles, I wrote a 63K story for this one without any flashbacks (I think.) I thought of you when I did it. :)"Lol thanks. I am not a fan of historicals but Tina said I'd still probably like it. I just have a hard time motiving myself to read something set before the 90's
Lauraadriana wrote: "Isa wrote: ".....you done trolling yet Bubbles? -_-;;;;;"Wow for someone who consistently gets called out for exoressing her opinions I think calling Dane a Trolll either makes you amnesiav or a ..."
Awww man Kaje :( I had a really snappy comeback too! All right, I've deleted it ... we're done here. Let's get the shovel out and bury this damn thing out back.
Bubbles wrote: "Kaje wrote: "And hey, Bubbles, I wrote a 63K story for this one without any flashbacks (I think.) I thought of you when I did it. :)"Lol thanks. I am not a fan of historicals but Tina said I'd st..."
Well, it is definitely a historical. It may not be up your alley. I just finished the damned thing, realized I'd gotten through the whole length without being flashbacky, and remembered your comment on "Taste of Summer". It made me smile.
Don't feel like you should read it if you don't like historicals. Some of the stuff the guys faced back then seriously could make you mad.
Anyway, there are always more good books than time. No reason to pick up something you won't really enjoy.
Isa wrote: "but since you brought up hypocrisy I think there's something both of you need to hear: ..."Isa, I appreciate you, but could we not have this fight here please?
Kaje wrote: "Isa wrote: "but since you brought up hypocrisy I think there's something both of you need to hear: ..."Isa, I appreciate you, but could we not have this fight here please?"
Yeah, I got it ^_^ You guys just post too fast for me *lol*
Isa wrote: "Yeah, I got it ^_^ You guys just post too fast for me *lol*..."
Mad typing skills - I need then to write all the darned stories. (actually, I lie - I still have to look at the keyboard. But I'm pretty fast.)
And I'm up for a burial about now. Thanks.
Thanks for your comments Isa...I swore off Bingo and left M/M Group months ago so have had nothing to say about LiAW since I cant even comment in there, and the only story I've read was Kaje which I really liked. So yeah...
Lauraadriana wrote: "Thanks for your comments Isa...I swore off Bingo and left M/M Group months ago so have had nothing to say about LiAW since I cant even comment in there, and the only story I've read was Kaje which I really liked. So yeah......"
I'm glad you liked the story - at least you got that out of it. Thanks for saying so here.
Kaje wrote: "Isa wrote: "Yeah, I got it ^_^ You guys just post too fast for me *lol*..."
Mad typing skills - I need then to write all the darned stories. (actually, I lie - I still have to look at the keyboa..."
Yeah I apologize if I was out of line. You don't need me to defend you ^_^;;;;;;; I like being honest with my friends because I want them to be honest with me (and hopefully Bubbles is still in that category? O.O *clings* BUBBLES DON'T LEAVE ME!!! Who will supply me with dirty gifs? *sobs*), but I acknowledge that this was the wrong time/place for that and I was probably coming very close to making this much worse o.o;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Bubbles is the king of dirty gifs. I hope you can make it up to him, should he feel that's necessary.
Kaje wrote: "Bubbles is the king of dirty gifs. I hope you can make it up to him, should he feel that's necessary."#####O__O##### Err... no comment XD
Aargh - someone just put malware into my website. Hopefully just coincidental, but I'd better go try to clean it up.
Isa wrote: "Kaje wrote: "Isa wrote: "Yeah, I got it ^_^ You guys just post too fast for me *lol*..."
Some reason I found your feedback less than honest. I seem to remember doing fine at bingo and finishing my books early. Did I complain about the lack of selections in categories? Of course but instill did them all so not sure how I excepte the bingo rules to be bent to my whim. But whatever
For liaw no where in the rules did it say you couldn't post a gif image. I read them twice. So again thanks for pointing out I can't read rules and Expect every mm event to go through me for approval. I had no idea I expected that so thanks for pointing that our to me along with your other observations.
Honestly Im not sure how you could stand to be friends with someone as full of theirself as you pointed out I am. Here and in status updates. Well no worries I fixed that problem for you. But the things you thought I needed to hear we're quite insightful so it was really appreciated.
Kaje you can delete this comment if you want I was just responded and am done responding to Isa so no worries of future drama here between me and her
Kaje wrote: "Bubbles wrote: "Kaje wrote: "And hey, Bubbles, I wrote a 63K story for this one without any flashbacks (I think.) I thought of you when I did it. :)"Lol thanks. I am not a fan of historicals but ..."
I'm also not a fan of war or military stories. And I read the war scene was long. So I really doubt I will read it unless I get in a really weird mood. I've only been reading certain stories for hc to let her know if she can read them and I try to avoid the ones I know I won't like. And I'm still waffling over yours since Tina said I would probably like it.
Meanwhile, in the YA community:"Publishing personal information about a reviewer, whether or not you agree with them, is above and beyond behaviour that anyone could find acceptable."
—http://cuddlebuggery.com/2012/05/vani...
Oh God I saw that. That is absolutely horrifying O_O I don't understand how anyone could do that.
Isa wrote: "Oh God I saw that. That is absolutely horrifying O_O I don't understand how anyone could do that."I think it's this: Author's worst enemy is not bad review, it's obscurity. A quick (and horrible) way to get publicity is to find a popular reviewer and bash her. And why stick with ad hominem when you can out the reviewer and tell everyone where she live and work and such.
I have to say that it would be unrealistic (not saying that you are expecting it, just not sure how best to word it) to expect readers to be kind based on what this event is about because not everyone reading the stories will be aware of it. I know that when I read my first ones (the Stuff My Stocking anthology) I wasn't aware. All I saw were a bunch of stories that were free for download on GR, and from those, I found new authors I was willing to actually purchase books from. Did I leave 1-2 star reviews? Yes, but I also noted why I did so. (I think it also helped to review an anthology rather than individual pieces. It doesn't make the negative reviews/ratings stand out as much.)
I wonder though whether it would be kinder to just leave a rating, leaving the author wondering why the reader disliked it so? Or whether it would be kinder to not rate or say anything at all, leaving the author wondering whether anyone was reading his/her work at all? Or is it kinder to only offer tentative praise without teaching new authors skills in dealing with the negative aspects of (author) life? How about the readers? Is it kind to them to make them feel guilty about having their opinions known, regardless of how it was expressed? I really like Ami's suggestion. I think that that is probably one of the most valuable skills an experienced author could teach new authors.
I understand the message, and I can see what prompted you to write it but I think that your use of the same/similar phrases and arguments other authors have used ("If you hate the story, do you really even need to write that review?" "If you think that's an exaggeration, you go write one and see how demanding that first effort can be." "It was a gift to you. You don't have to like it, but don't throw it back in the giver's face.") for more selfish purposes kind of tarnishes the way your post came across. At least, that's how it felt to me.
Editing to add what Hannah said since she said what I deleted from my own post. lol