Rob Prince's Blog, page 55

Warm Churches vs. Cool Churches (Hint: It’s not about temperature)

Cool is out.  Warm is in.  This is not a statement regarding weather patterns on the Great Lakes or temperatures in the sanctuary.  This isn’t a new farmer’s almanac proclamation or a slogan from a HVAC seminar, instead this cool/warm discussion is regarding churches and reaching people for Jesus.

“Cool” churches in the not too distant past meant worship services filled with smoke, lights, a wood pallet background, skinny jean wearing worship leaders and a pastor with earrings and tattoos. These fad-based churches generally had a cool name that sounded more like a geological formation or a city park than a church. But like a Detroit Lions’ winning streak, cool churches don’t last.  The fad fades.

I’ll take warm instead.[image error]

In a moment of full disclosure, as if there has ever been any doubt, I’ve never been cool. Back in the day, when I was able to fit into skinny jeans, skinny jeans weren’t cool. Bell Bottoms were in style way back then (think: the exact opposite of skinny jeans).  In my high school senior picture (see photo) that handsome devil weighed 95 pounds, wore a handmade by my mom green suit and had an afro. You can’t be more uncool than a Q-tipped shaped leprechaun. But I digress, this isn’t about my uncoolness, it’s about churches and reaching people for Jesus.

Warm churches are warm not because of the temperature, like when someone recently flipped off our air conditioning in the sanctuary on a Sunday morning. “Warm” doesn’t mean stuffy and stifling. Warm churches are genuine, authentic and real.  Warm churches love one another even if their parishioners (an uncool description of people who come to church) aren’t cool and don’t drive a Prius with a peace sign bumper sticker. Warm churches love Jesus and love their neighbors. Warm churches aren’t judgmental but still preach the truth.  Even when the truth hurts, the folks gathered know that they are loved unconditionally and intentionally.  When someone messes up in a warm church, they aren’t tossed to the side of the road like a worn-out sofa, but are loved even more.  Who needs more love than someone who has recently failed, sinned or messed up? Warm churches do their best to eliminate labels and recognize that everyone can have a place around God’s table even the uncool, the unkempt, unhappy and unappreciated.

No church where I preach on a regular basis will ever have the baggage of being labelled “cool” (I have no earrings or tattoos, and trust me when I say no one wants to see me in skinny jeans).  Still I hope the church that calls me “pastor” is warm and getting warmer.  In a day when people are becoming more and more isolated, more and more lonely and more and more depressed, I am convinced that people are looking for warm not cool.  Folks would rather know they are loved, than whether there’s a fog machine and a wood pallet stage design. Cool is out. Warm is in.

 

A Case of the Mondays

On Monday mornings, I typically find myself beginning the day at Starbucks.  Today, I got here around 5:45AM.  I send out a weekend recap to the church board and pastors. I also send out a weekly reminder of the week ahead to the pastoral and office staff. And I generally evaluate the previous Sunday—the good, the bad and the ugly.

I am usually harder on myself than what others are (except for the few folks in my congregation who believe that their “spiritual gift” is “Pointing Out that the Preacher stinks”). I evaluate my sermon, the worship services, the intangibles like weather, building issues (yesterday we had to call the HVAC company… twice) and overall ministry effectiveness. Some weeks are better than others. I tend to brush off the compliments and grab a hold of the complaints to a much greater degree. Sometimes people’s comments dig a little deeper.  Sometimes I get too defensive. I think that’s where I was this morning.

So today as I was doing my evaluating, Monday moaning, and probably complaining a bit too much to the Lord in my devotions, I ran across Psalm 5:11-12 just in the nick of time (God has this habit of smacking us and/or reminding us of what is important at the exact right moment).  Anyway, for me this morning it came in the form of Psalm 5 that reads:

  But let all who take refuge in you be glad; let them ever sing for joy. Spread your protection over them that those who love your name may rejoice in you.  Surely, Lord, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield.

On this day, when I was having a “case of the Mondays” I needed to be reminded that I can be glad in the refuge I find in the Lord.  I can sing for joy (even when it easier to sing a dirge). God surrounds me with his favor which is infinitely better than anyone else’s favor or disfavor. I can rejoice even when things aren’t perfect. Getting my eyes off the imperfections around me (and in me) and onto the perfect, present, powerful Lord is the best cure for a case of the Mondays. So today I am rejoicing that Jesus is Lord not just of Sundays but Mondays too.

 

 

“Prayer Works” but maybe not in the way you think Prayer Works

We believe prayer works! Usually when people say, “Prayer works,” they mean, “God answered my prayer in the way I wanted God to answer it.” But even if the prayers we pray are not answered in the manner in which we prayed, prayer still works!  Whenever we spend extended time with God we are changed, shaped and moved. God is God and we are not, and we can ALWAYS trust him are the lessons of prayer.

“Prayer works” can imply that prayer is like a vending machine.  It’s not. You don’t drop in a prayer and assume God is not “out of order,” and the prayer is automatically and, more importantly, affirmatively answered. Simply because someone, somewhere prayed does not mean that God is compelled to automatically answer that prayer request with a great big “Yes.”  (If that were the case, the Detroit Lions would have won the Super Bowl years ago). In my past, I thought I knew what was best and prayed for it (only to later learn it wasn’t the best), and I’m glad God said “No.” I don’t think God replied, “Hey knucklehead, are you crazy?” to my requests, but once I had the advantage of all of the facts, I realized how thankful I should be that God said, “No.”

If the previous two paragraphs are correct (and I’d like to think they are), then here are my three words of advice when we spend times in genuine prayer:  Fasten your seatbelts!

Here’s why:

James 5:13 says: The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. (I know plenty of people who are rightly called “prayer warriors”). And…

1 Peter 3:12 says:“For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their prayer.” (Did I mention that some of the finest people I know are pray-ers?)

And the big KABOOM! is in Matthew 7:7, where Jesus said: “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.”  Now I don’t know how God will work. I don’t know when God will work. I don’t know the nitty, gritty details of God’s working, but I know as God responds (either with a “Yes,” “No,” or “Wait”), God is always up to something good. ALWAYS. Jesus went on to say, “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone?  Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake?  If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! (Matthew 7:9-11).  In other words, following times of genuine prayer from genuine people, fasten your seatbelts we are in for an amazing ride because you got it: “Prayer works!”

 

 

If the Church were More Like Rosy’s Diner in Escanaba…

This week I ate lunch (which for me was really breakfast) at Rosy’s Diner. The restaurant can best be described as a “dive” in Upper Peninsula town of Escanaba.  Rosy’s diner is the #1 rated restaurant on YELP for Escanaba (by the way, Krystal Jo’s on Fenton Road is #1 in Flint).  Once I took Karla to Krystal Jo’s (did I mention we only went there once?), Karla wasn’t a fan.  She would have rated Rosy’s similarly.  Not me.  I loved it.

Rosy, I learned, has owned the diner for 19 years.  How did I acquire such news?  Rosy talked nonstop.  From the time we entered until the time we left, she shared her opinions in a loud booming voice.  The entire restaurant (which seats probably 25 people, including those at the counter) also heard her various comments and life commentary. She was better than any late-night TV host. I learned that her feet hurt, the help was slow (from my vantage point I thought the other lady was working hard), and the guy eating at the counter, his wife and her “old man” are planning to go “side by siding” this weekend (which is some type of off road adventuring and has nothing to do with home repairs or having matching refrigerators).  When a family with a couple teenagers came into the diner she said, “Where you been?  You’ve only been here four times this year.” (There are a few people I’d like to say that to at my church, but I digress).  She then turned to one of the teenagers and said, “Are you going to get a hot dog again? You know I can cook other things than dogs.” I learned plenty of other things in the time it took me to eat the eggs and biscuits and gravy that she prepared like “mama used to make.”  When it was time for us to leave, we were told, “You ain’t been here if you haven’t signed my guestbook.” (Have you ever been to a restaurant where you signed a guestbook like you were at a wedding or funeral?  Me neither.) I signed it.

Rosy has to be the reason her diner is #1 on YELP.  It wasn’t for the décor. I doubt anything has changed in her 19 years of ownership.  It wasn’t for the biscuits and gravy (her mama should have used a different recipe).  But Rosy’s love for her diner and the people who entered through her door was evident. We were treated like long lost friends.  Even though this troll lives below the Mackinaw bridge and had never been to Escanaba, I felt like Rosy was family. I would go back again and again just to see Rosy and her boisterous personality in action.

The church needs to be more like Rosy’s Diner and less like some fine dining establishment with table cloths and fancy dinner music. Warm is better than cool. Our love should be evident and contagious just like at Rosy’s place. Some of the things we get bent out of shape over (décor, worship style, and proper decorum), are not nearly as important as newcomers feeling less like visitors and more like long lost family returning home. It the church were more like Rosy’s Diner even strangers would feel like family; we’d tell our stories and want to hear theirs; we’d know each other and we’d be known; we’d be honest and say things like “Hey, where have you been” if you’ve had less than frequent attendance, and we’d probably all leave smelling like grease. But I don’t think anyone would mind.

God’s Money or Our Money?

Down through the years I have had people try to manipulate the church because of finances.  Probably every pastor has had a person threaten to quit tithing because of some dumb reason.  When pastoring in the early 90’s in Michigan (FYI: we build cars in Michigan), I had an auto worker parishioner threaten to quit paying his tithe if I drove a foreign car (I’ve never owned a foreign can, wasn’t thinking about buying one, and probably my auto worker dad would have written me out of his will too).  Still I didn’t like that he tried to hold God hostage to my automobile preference. I resisted the temptation to tell him that the Bible says the early disciples drove a Honda. It’s true. In the book of Acts, Luke says they were “all in one Accord.” (That’s a dumb joke, even if you think robbing God of His tithe is a legitimate form of protest). Another time a man wanted to give his nephew $10,000, but his plan was to give the money to the church (so he could get a tax write off) and then have the church give the money to his nephew. He was going to toss the church a few hundred dollars for our troubles.  Can you say “money-laundering,” boys and girls? I did not ask if he would also start calling me “Rev. Al Capone” if we agreed to his plan. I simply told him, “Thanks but no thanks.” Moreover, we have all heard tales of TV preachers who went on the air begging for money from the gullible viewers with promises of God blessing their “seed money,” only to be discovered living a lavish lifestyle off of the money given. I saw that one such preacher recently drove to church in his $325,000 automobile, that’s a far cry from Jesus riding into Jerusalem on a donkey. No wonder Paul told Timothy “the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.”(1 Timothy 6:10).

There have always been con-artists and profiteers who have tried to make a buck off of the church. In Acts 8, there is a crazy story about a guy named Simon who is described as a “sorcerer.” Some versions call him a “witch doctor.” The basic facts are: he offered to pay for the ability to lay his hands on people so that they might receive the Holy Spirit. As you could imagine, Peter was less than enthused by his offer and replied, “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God.  Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart.  For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.” (Acts 8:20-23).  Take that as a great big “No” from Peter regarding Simon’s scheme.  God’s blessings weren’t for sale.

How we handle the money and blessings God provides are important. The question for us is what are we doing with what God has given us?  Are we using his blessings for His glory or ours?  Are we praying “Thy kingdom come” or “My kingdom come”? I’ve seen too many people like Simon get their eyes on money or other things instead of Jesus, and have also observed how bad behaviors or attitudes like Simon’s that can lead to a dangerous or wicked place. The bottom line is this: Seek the Lord, not money. Seek the Lord, not glory.  Seek the Lord, not even happiness.  Seek the Lord, not the approval of others. Seek the Lord, not some supernatural abilities and gifts. Seek the Lord, not anything else and He will supply everything you truly need!

 

Five Tips for my fellow Male Pastors Regarding Women in Ministry

I’m glad for my denomination’s stance on women in ministry, I’m glad that we have always had female pastors and leaders. I’m glad we have a female General Superintendent (Carla Sunberg), that we elected a female DS this summer (Rose Brower-Young on the Canada West District) and I’m glad that one of our large, historical churches (Pasadena First Church is pastored by a woman (Tara Beth Leach). Having said that, (instead of complaining that we aren’t doing enough, which, by the way, we aren’t providing enough opportunities), allow me to offer my fellow male pastors some tips on ways we can do better:

1).  Hire Female Staff members.  (And not just in the children’s area.  In a moment of full disclosure both of the children’s pastors at my church are female and they are great, but we also have another female pastor on staff.  In past churches I have pastored we have had female visitation pastors, middle school pastors, evangelism pastors, and discipleship pastors).

2).  Enlist Female Role Model Preachers.  Find the best female preachers and invite them to speak at revivals, mission’s gatherings, special services, whatever.  Give those who are being called positive role models.

3). Preach about God calling woman and men.  Remind your congregation that God needs female voices as well as male voices to reach this generation.

4).  Let Young Preacher’s Preach.  When God calls these females to preach (and God will) let them preach. Give them opportunities. This past Sunday night, one of our young preacher’s preached. She did great! She did far better than I would have done as a 19-year-old, I guarantee you that! She is talented and called and will be a great pastor one day.

5).  Encourage your District Leadership to include female preachers on interview lists of churches and to serve as interim and supply preachers, schedule women preachers for pastors’ retreats (not just for the spouses of the ministers at such retreats) but as the actual main speaker and for events like camp meetings and District Assembly and Pastors’ Day enrichment experiences.

If we truly believe Peter’s words in his Pentecost sermon where he quoted the prophet Joel:

“‘In the last days, God says,

I will pour out my Spirit on all people.

Your sons and daughters will prophesy,

your young men will see visions,

your old men will dream dreams. Acts 2:17

 Then do all you can to encourage your daughters to prophesy along with your sons.  Call them to follow God’s calling upon their life and encourage them to become the Women of Christ that God will use for the Kingdom’s glory!

 

 

Five Tips for Dealing with Church Politics

The rule of thumb in the art of not offending people is to avoid two conversations that generally get people’s panties in a bunch: politics and religion. Talk about the weather, sports, or something innocuous and no one is offended. Talk about the democrats, republicans or the Second Coming and tread lightly. As a pastor, it’s kind of hard (read: Impossible) to not talk about religion. Call it an occupational hazard. But politics is an area I try my best to avoid knowing I will get into a fight with half the crowd quicker than I can say “Russian Collusion.” But even more dangerous is to venture into the even murkier merged world of “politics in the church.” This topic virtually assures that church folks will be offended at some point in this little essay. (I apologize in advance).

You could make the argument that politics within the church has been around since Ananias and Sapphira wanted to make a big splash with their donated land scheme. What would you call the election of the deacons in Acts 6 if it was not politics in the church? Surely there was some backroom church politics discussions with the circumcised/not circumcised debate of Acts 15. And Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 1 about those who follow himself or Apollos or Cephas or Christ sounds an awful like a political brouhaha. All of this to say that church politics have been around nearly as long as cheesy potatoes at church potlucks.

Not a News Flash: Politics still exist in the church today. When pastors with a thoroughly unremarkable record get appointed to the role of District Superintendent based on the big wig they know and not on what they have done, politics is at work. When a district “votes” on a lone candidate during an “election,” then you might assume some backroom politics were in play. When a female pastor with a Masters of Divinity can’t get a sniff at an interview with a church, but a first-year home study male pastor does, then you know church political “gerryMANdering” has taken place. When a pastor with a famous last name gets a choice assignment and more qualified candidates get passed over, nepotism is still in style. When people refuse to speak up at injustices within the church for fear it might hurt their career or hurt their chances at the next sweet assignment, church politics is thriving as the shadowy underbelly of the church.

As stated politics within the church have been around for nearly as long as the church has existed, so what is the answer? Here are a few reminders, I’ve told myself:

1) Remember the church isn’t perfect (neither are you). Humility, gentleness and submission to Jesus’ are still the answer to shortcomings within and without of the church.

2) Refuse to become bitter when you see things that might discourage you about the church.

3) Be glad your name is in the Lamb’s Book of Life more than on a church ballot or on a “big wig’s list of candidates.”

4) Walk in the footsteps of Jesus who according to John 1:14 came “full of truth and grace.” Be that way too– truthful and loving. Always.

5) Your work is for the Lord, not anything or anyone else. I have a friend who was snubbed this week by a religious big wig remind me, “I work for Jesus not that guy.”  Sometimes I need to remember that too.

In response to my questioning of the “Diversity” of the Global Ministry Center Leadership of the Church of the Nazarene

Following yesterday’s blog on the lack of diversity in the leadership of the Church of the Nazarene (with the exception of the Board of General Superintendents), I received a few less-than-supportive messages questioning how I could possibly believe that the Church of the Nazarene was not diverse or how I was simply wanting to be “politically correct” to suggest that we should be more diverse. I believe the term is “doubling down” (a gambling term that this life-long Nazarene shouldn’t know) and I confess that the accusations that I am less-than-loyal to a church that I deeply love may have gotten my “panties in a bunch.”

From the chart below (which admittedly might not be complete. If there are mistakes message me without calling me names, and I will adjust it.  And for some reason I couldn’t justify the columns, I apologize for that too), you decide on the question of whether there needs to be more diversity at the Global Ministry Center and how “international” our leadership really is at the GMC.

Draw your own conclusions on how well our 1,917,022 non-USA/Canada members (out of a total membership of 2,550,374 members) is represented with the below list of leaders.

Once again for the record: I love the people on this list (I was pastor to some of them when I served as Lenexa Central’s pastor).  I have no beef with the people or their qualifications or competence. I know they love Jesus and the Church of the Nazarene.

My issue is simply: If we are going to call ourselves an “international church” instead of an American Church that has some missions’ programs shouldn’t we be a bit more “international”?

Position                           Name                  Nation of Origin

General Secretary           Gary Hartke             USA

General Treasurer           Keith Cox                  USA

Chief Financial Officer   Bill Sawyer               USA

Global Mission Director  Vern Ward               USA

President the Naz Foundation Ken Roney       USA

Pres. The Fountry Pub        Mark Brown          USA

NYI Director                 Position Open

NMI Director                 Lola Brickey                 USA

SDMI Director               Scott Rainey                 USA

Clergy Education/Ed Comm     Dan Copp         USA

General Editor               Frank Moore                 USA

Regional Director            Bob Broadbrooks       USA

P&B Director                 Don Walter                    USA

Research                     Dale Jones                         USA

Church Planting              Mark Bane                  USA

Communications               Cort Miller                USA

Multicultural                Roberto Hodgson         Guatemala?

Stewardship                 Position Open

IT Director                  Jeff Beam                         USA

HR Director                  Cindy Armstrong         USA

BGS Office Manager           Joy Hartke              USA

NCM Director                 Nell Sweeden               USA

Global Mission Personnel     Marty Haskins           USA

General Counsel              Michael Thompson        USA

JFHP Director                Brian Helstrom          USA

NCN News                     Chad Schnarr            USA

Editor of Holiness Today     Charles Christian       USA

I completely agree that some of these positions should be filled by folks from USA/Canada (maybe even more than half… I don’t know the “magic number” that would be fair and equitable).  But can’t we agree that as a denomination we can do better?  Can’t we agree that if heaven is going to be as diverse as Revelation 7:9 indicates (“I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb”), then our goal should be that we are a reflection of heaven too if we are praying for God’s kingdom to come and His will done on earth (at the GMC) as it is in heaven.

I love the Church of the Nazarene and pray that we can improve and truly be representative of heaven on earth.

No Congratulations Yet on the Leadership Demographics in the Church of Nazarene

A quick look at the Church of the Nazarene leadership says changes are happening. Three of the six general superintendents are non-Americans (two African and one Guatemalan) and there is a female GS. This summer along with the typical white, middle aged men who were elected District Superintendents in the USA/Canada region, also elected were a man born in the West Indies, a Hispanic man and a woman. All were good choices and this is good news. Our leadership demographics look a little more like the diversity that will exist in heaven than before the last General Assembly!

But let’s not start patting ourselves on the back just yet. Over the last few years those who were elected to the other general leadership positions in the church have all been white, Americans. (Please know, I have nothing against any of these people.  Some I know very well, and think they are great.  They love Jesus, love the Church of the Nazarene and are qualified to do the jobs they’ve been asked to do).  My problem isn’t with the individual selections or their qualifications but rather with a system that seems to favor white, USA born males in key leadership roles.

In the last few years, William Sawyer was elected to be the Chief Administrator of the Global Ministry Center.  The announcement is here.  Keith Cox was elected as General Treasurer.  The announcement is here.  Gary Hartke was elected as General Secretary. The announcement is here. Scott Rainey was elected to be the Global Director of Sunday School and Discipleship Ministries.  The announcement is here.  The lone exception is Nell Sweeden, a female from the USA who was elected to be the Director of Nazarene Compassionate Ministries.  Her announcement is here.

What do all of these major decision makers have in common?  Yes, they are all qualified for their respective positions.  They are also all white men (except for Nell) from the USA (including Nell).  We are a global church, aren’t we? There are more Nazarenes living outside the USA than in it. Surely there must be some wonderful, competent Nazarenes worldwide that can fulfill the duties and obligations in these important roles.

As the search for a new Global Nazarene Youth International Director (to take Dr. Hartke’s place) is being conducted can this white, American, middle aged pastor request that we look outside of the USA to find someone to fill this role?  If we are going to be an international church, then we need to diversify our meeting places (read: General Assemblies not just in the USA) and diversify our key leadership roles (not just the Board of General Superintendents).  I’m glad that three of our six General Superintendents are from outside of the USA and a few of the USA/Canada DSs are from minority groups, but can we admit that we can do much better. If we want our “international” church to be an answer to Jesus prayer that His Kingdom would come and His will done on earth as it is in heaven, then I think our church will look a little more international, a little less white and a lot more diversified in all areas of church leadership and not just at the tippy top.

Is God answering our Prayer in the Church of the Nazarene? I think so!

At our local Nazarene church in Flint Michigan, we are constantly praying a slightly altered version of the prayer that the Lord taught us to pray.  We pray that “God’s kingdom would come and His will be done in Flint as it is in heaven.”  We believe that is a prayer that Jesus not only told us to pray, but a prayer that we should expect and want God to answer.

What would it look like if God actually answered that prayer?  When “God’s kingdom comes and His will is done” then love for neighbor will be continually experienced.  We will only have neighbors in heaven. No outsiders allowed. In Revelation 7, John gives us a glimpse into heaven when he talks of seeing “a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.” (Revelation 7:9). I’m pretty sure that means there will be no barriers based on where one’s passport is issued, the color of one’s skin, one’s ancestry, or any of the other things that too often divide us. Jesus talks about heaven being like a great banquet, as such plenty not poverty will characterize the gathering of saints.  Later the Revelator says it will be a place where ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain” (Revelation 21:4).  Healthy and happy will describe us.  All of this happens, when God’s kingdom comes and his will is done.

Some look at our world and say, “We aren’t close to the Lord answering that prayer. There are problems and divisions like never before.” But like the people the Old Testament prophet Zechariah called us to be, I am a “prisoner of hope.” As such that doesn’t mean we have to put on “rose colored glasses,” instead you just need to look a little closer to see God’s work. I refuse to believe that God is done. He still wants to answer that prayer that Christians have been praying for 2,000 years. We have a long, long way to go, but I see evidence of his working.

Take my little tribe, the Church of the Nazarene, for example.  When you looked at our leadership circles a few years ago, it looked like we were communicating that the kingdom of heaven would only be occupied by white haired, American men (and who mostly pastored a church in Olathe, Kansas).  But now our six General Superintendents includes two from Africa, one from Guatemala and a woman. This summer in the USA/Canada region we have elected a Hispanic man, a man born in West Indies and a woman to the role of District Superintendent. All this to say, we are changing.  We are looking more and more like heaven.

I know the change (the answer to the Lord’s prayer) is not happening as fast as some would prefer. I know we have a long, long way to go. I know our country is divided and sometimes those divisions are seen in the church.  We still have problems. But I am a prisoner of hope and believe that God is at work both in my local church and in the larger global makeup of the Church of the Nazarene. So, I’m going to keep being a prisoner of hope and keep praying and keep expecting that God’s kingdom will come and his will done on earth, in Flint, in the Church of the Nazarene as it is in heaven.  Won’t you join me in praying that prayer too.