Andy Paul's Blog, page 25

#613: How to Prepare for Difficult Conversations w/ Bridget Gleason

 

Bridget Gleason is VP of Sales for Logz.io and my regular partner on Front Line Fridays. Special guest on this episode is Susan Steinbrecher, President and CEO of Steinbrecher & Associates, Inc.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Susan Steinbrecher is the special guest in this episode. The topic is having ‘difficult conversations,’ with subordinates, peers, or customers.
Susan formed Steinbrecher & Associates, Inc. 25 years ago. Steinbrecher & Associates focuses on leadership development and leadership training.
Susan noticed a pattern with her clients where they were uncomfortable with hard conversations. She also saw polarization in society. She decided to address the issues.
How do we communicate difficult topics effectively? Where there is a lot of stress, clarity is key. People don’t feel competent to approach conflict, so they avoid it.
There are two jobs to it. Internally, you need to manage your emotions with resilience and self-control. Externally, you need to know the step-by-step process to work through the conversation from beginning to end.
Some difficult conversations seem more emotionally weighted, and grievance-based. We don’t operate at our best if we’re not sleeping well or eating well. Susan teaches tactics to help you when you find yourself upset.
When there is extreme emotion, recognize it, pause, and ask to reconvene the next day after time for reflection. Consider what the options are, and choose intentionally. This may be one conversation of many.
In a difficult conversation, first, lay out the reason for the conversation, so no one is confused. Besides the stated goals, it is important to facilitate the emotions of the other person. Empathize (do not agree) with the situation.
Susan teaches techniques, such as empathizing, active listening skills, involve them in the solution, to defuse a situation. Bridget notes it takes self-awareness to navigate these conversations. Recognize triggers.
Susan felt that these skills and tools are not common. These techniques need to be taught in homes, schools, and prisons, as well as at work. People often don’t know why they are being triggered. These skills take practice.
‘One and done’ is not enough. This training takes a facilitator and multiple sessions with feedback and coaching. People think they are better at these skills than they show up to be when observed and critiqued.
Proper communication can determine the success of an organization. The organization needs to be aligned to thrive. There are models of personal style of conversation. Susan shows people how they show up.

 

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#612: Accelerate Sales Engagement for SDRs and AEs w/ Chris Rothstein

 

Chris Rothstein, CEO at Groove.co, joins me on this episode of Accelerate!

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Chris says the single biggest challenge facing sales reps today is overall noise. There are more products, so, to stand out, you have to provide true value that your competitors can’t or don’t offer. Bring your ‘A’ Game.
Groove.co is a sales engagement platform helping reps while they are selling, by email or phone. The target market is midsize and large companies, with 20 to 50 reps up to thousands. Groove is data-driven and efficient.
Groove.co has an all-in-one solution for the entire sales team — SDRs and AEs. Google was one of their early customers and Groove built processes for the needs of Google’s complex sales force.
Started in the Midwest, Groove has brick-and-mortar clients but now focuses on analytics in the tech space. It works well with A/B testing.
Andy talks about InsideSales.com’s audit of cadences and activities. Cadence is largely fictional unless you count sending one email as a cadence. Chris has seen some companies go all in for cadence. It comes from the top.
How do you drive the adoption of cadences in a way that makes a difference to outcomes? We are in the Golden Age of sales tech but where are the outcomes? It’s not enough just to blast more emails; you burn relationships.
ABM is great for a small segment of the market but what do we do with small customers? Groove.co knows the top 10,000 accounts they want to get into; they tier them and work the list analytically.
Groove.co uses a variety of tools, including some of their own scripts to generate data. They organize the accounts and they match an AE to an SDR to get as much business out of their list as possible.
Chris tells his definition of sales productivity. Every company seems to measure productivity in their own way. Can a dollar amount be assigned per hour of selling time? Can paperwork be removed from selling time?
Chris believes that for every efficiency made available to a rep, more information is demanded, so reps never get a break from data entry to use that time for selling.
It’s hard to make clean comparisons between now and five years ago, but are reps doing better now than then?
Andy and Chris discuss what is happening with customers who do their own research to the point where they are self-qualified when they enter the pipeline. Why are closing reps still so low? Is sales overstaffed per client?

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#611: Effective Use of Marketing to Win More B2B Sales w/ Joe Apfelbaum

 

Joe Apfelbaum, CEO of Ajax Union, business strategist, keynote speaker, coach, and author, joins me on this episode of #Accelerate!

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Joe says the single biggest challenge facing sales reps today is having a solid list of customers to pursue. Get Marketing to qualify leads so reps see the right leads.
Joe has worked with over 11,000 companies. Many were failing by sending salespeople to work unqualified leads, instead of identifying ideal leads for salespeople to sell.
Joe distinguishes between Marketing Qualified Leads and Sales Qualified Leads. A name, a number, and an email address do not make a Sales Qualified Lead. Send salespeople after prospects who are qualified to buy.
There is a debate about who has responsibility for qualifying leads. Cold calling is a marketing tool. It is not Why give it to a salesperson? What is the most efficient use of a salesperson’s time?
Joe gives a case study of an Adwords campaign giving salespeople too many leads to qualify. Their sales went down. Joe got them to use a process to qualify the leads. Then, with qualified leads, their sales doubled.
Joe does a rap that nobody forgets. He always does something new for an elevator pitch. Find something unique. Joe has guests on his podcast to find good leads.
Ajax started with Alan Friedman, Joe, and X (the customer). Ajax helps B2B companies generate new leads using the internet and nurture leads by marketing automation in Account-Based Marketing.
Ajax developed B2Bx technology to show you who’s coming to your website, what they do on it, and what they googled or clicked on to call you.
Ajax uses a new digital methodology for ABM. Combining ABM within social media allows you to target the right people at the right time. Send the right top-of-funnel messages to the right top-of-funnel prospects.
Don’t make presumptions in ABM that you wouldn’t make in a face-to-face engagement. Look at your social messaging. It may not match your targets.
Get in front of people. Use technology as a tool to get you closer to people, not further away.
B2Bx is available as part of the consulting services of Ajax and is now also available as a separate offering. Joe contrasts competing software tools with B2Bx. Part of the service Ajax offers is education and coaching.

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Reflections on 600 Conversations about Sales

Last month I published the 600th episode of my podcast, Accelerate! 

Many people have asked me what I’ve learned from the more than 600 in-depth conversations I’ve had with the sharpest minds in sales, marketing, management and leadership.

Here are just a few of the key observations I’ve drawn from these conversations. These are just observations. I’ll reserve my recommendations for future posts.

1. Selling has changed less than people want to believe
That’s right, despite all the new buzzwords and technology that are flooding into sales, selling really hasn’t changed that much. Effective B2B selling primarily is still about what happens in those critical person-to-person moments when the seller communicates with and delivers value to the buyer. Those moments can’t be outsourced to technology today no matter what vendors may promise you.

I’ve spoken with some very clever marketers that are attempting to repackage and relabel sales strategies that have been around since the Pleistocene Era of B2B selling. Some of these are fads and shall pass. In the meantime, my guests have been nearly unanimous is believing that sellers need to remain focused on mastering the fundamental principles of sales. Sellers will always be able to depend on these.

2. Technology is going to have a massive impact on sales outcomes. But, not yet.
Despite the massive infusion of technology into sales, there’s no data that exists to prove that it’s contributing to higher levels of sales or elevated levels of true sales productivity. In other words, are the companies that are investing heavily in sales technologies generating more revenue dollars per employee than they did without the technology? Entire business models have been created around the assumption that the answer to that question is “yes.” However, it’s not evident that is the case. It should be. And, it will be. But, we’re not there yet.

It’s important to keep in mind Amara’s Law. Roy Amara was a leading futurist. His succinct formulation about the impact of technology is very relevant here. “We tend to overestimate the effect of a technology in the short run and underestimate the effect in the long run.” This is what is happening in sales with sales technologies.

3. Sellers are not paying enough attention to the actual science of selling.
There are two camps that tout the science of selling. One camp is focused on the data of selling and the other on the social psychology of influence.

The science of selling is touted by the data camp as ‘the death of the art of selling.’ Of course, that is just plain silly. What many believe is the science of selling is really basic math centered around the idea that sales is just a numbers game. That’s hardly science and these particular equations about sales based on stage conversion rates have been around since the Jurassic era of B2B Selling.

The current limitation is that the ability to generate more sophisticated data about sales is generally outstripping the abilities of sales leaders to rationally use that data to make better decisions about their sales efforts. Again, we are going to learn how to use data to transform the productivity of average sales people. We’re just not quite there yet.

On the other hand, the science of selling based on the research revolution in social psychology that has occurred over the past 50 years deserves more attention from sellers. If you’re in sales, you’re in the business of serving your buyers. Therefore, don’t you think you’d be well served to invest your time to study how your buyers process information and make decisions? This is the actual science of selling. Every minute we can spend to better understand our buyers is a minute well spent.

4. We are over-complicating sales and overwhelming sales reps.
The influx of sales technology has created in many sales leaders a blind conformity to their sales process rather than blind devotion to serving the needs of their buyers. For many sales teams this has resulted in an unwieldy sales process and an out of control sales tech stack that creates a burden on their sellers. Salespeople are overwhelmed and distracted. It’s a problem sales leaders have largely created. And one they need to take responsibility for solving.

5. Sales leaders still don’t understand the fundamentals of productivity in sales.
Here’s the problem: we confuse performance with productivity. They aren’t the same. Productivity is a rate of output based on the investment of a unit of input. That’s how we should measure productivity in sales. Instead we are still aiming at the fixed target of a quota. As long as sales leaders are fixated on quota attainment, instead of being focused on improving the dollar amount of sales produced per hour of sales time by an individual seller, sales productivity won’t improve.

6. Sales leaders and sales people are not investing enough in their own development.
It has been a consensus among my guests that the sales training model is broken. A new model for sales education is required. Again, the right solution hasn’t been developed. Yet. However, until that happens, sellers at all levels have to assume greater responsibility for their own professional development.

Guest after guest on Accelerate! has lamented the lack of curiosity among professional sellers to learn more about their craft. I’m at one extreme. I’ve read approximately 150 books on sales, marketing and leadership in the past two years. Unfortunately, the other extreme is zero. However, can zero be considered an extreme if that is the typical number of sales books read by the average sales leader and sales professional each year? Changing this even slightly (one book per month?) would have a profound impact on overall performance in the sales profession.

 

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#610: Learning the Complex Sale w/ Bridget Gleason

 

Bridget Gleason is VP of Sales for Logz.io and my regular partner on Front Line Fridays. Special guest on this episode is Trong Nguyen, the author of Winning the Cloud: Sales Stories and Advice from my Days at Microsoft.

 

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Trong introduces his book, Winning the Cloud. Trong worked at Microsoft for seven years, and the book follows his insights and experiences there, related to moving data and services to the cloud.
Trong loves sales and sees it as a craft. His book is intended to help salespeople accelerate their careers. Reps must know their customers, their customer’s business, their own competition, and their product case.
Andy compares bicycle racing to sales. How much are you willing to suffer to win the deal? Trong talks about sacrificing personal time, vacation time, and family time to win. Bridget asks what is the upside?
The extrinsic reward is, the harder you work, the ‘luckier’ you get, and the more money you can make. The intrinsic reward is to know the difference you are making for your customers, and how you have changed their business.
Research shows money is not the primary motivator for most salespeople. Trong discusses a maturity curve. Early in his career, he was driven by the money. Later on, he sought more the intrinsic rewards of helping people.
For Bridget, the money aspect was always important, because of the work and stress of sales. But what she loves about sales are the intrinsic rewards of serving people and solving problems.
Now that Trong starts with how he can solve customer problems, and help them grow their business, he is massively more successful than when he focused on deals and dollars. Now he builds relationships.
Trong talks about integrating work and life. He used to work 80 hours a week. Now he takes Karate to exercise, reads a book a month, and spends more time devoted to family, with no multi-tasking in their presence.
Andy states that being present, wherever you are, is the key. Put your ‘tech’ away when you are with someone. Extract the maximum out of every moment.
Being happy is essential to success in business and in life. One behavior is to stop trying to multi-task. Happiness and productivity go up when you are focused and present. Don’t be a ‘superchecker’ of your phone.
In your home, you might keep screens and devices out of bedrooms. Andy talks about how pervasive smartphones have become in the past few years.
Trong discusses The Challenger Sale from the point of view of challenging yourself as a salesperson. Often, the customer knows best, even about the product you sell.

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#609: Is Quota Still an Effective Measure of Performance? w/ Rowan Tonkin

Rowan Tonkin, Marketing Apps Leader at Anaplan, joins me on this episode of #Accelerate!

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Rowan says the single biggest challenge facing sales reps today is getting the attention from their prospects to get the meeting. We’re all distracted by millions of things every day.
We are contributing to the problem with barrages of approaches to our prospects. No one wants to be the first company to do less. The customer is overwhelmed.
Some organizations are unlocking all their content, and waiting for the contacts to approach them after consuming what interests them.
What’s the rationale for paying a commission, in this landscape? Commissions motivate the A-players. It results in behavior change. CSO Insights shows that the percentage of reps meeting quota is decreasing.
Rowan suggests this reflects the market. We have optimistic quota setters, which makes it harder to achieve them. Organizations should think about compensation in alignment with their quota setting.
According to a survey by The Alexander Group, the quota-setting process has been the number one problem in sales compensation plans for the last 13 years. There is a misalignment that needs to be corrected.
What strategy for compensation would help the middle salespeople improve their results by 2% to 5%? How should sales compensation be personalized? Technology is available to personalize compensation. Anaplan uses it.
To make an effective compensation plan: make it simple and easy to communicate; understand corporate goals and use quotas to meet the goals; and provide team and personal plan commission options. Don’t try this in Excel!
Rowan talks about missing quota, and why that might happen. Productivity is another measurement of profit. Assuming that leads are equitably distributed, conversion of leads is essential. Quotas don’t fill themselves.
Andy believes quotas are overthought. Whatever is the issue, quota attainment is much lower than it should be.

 

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

For Vice Presidents of Sales of high-growth companies based on a recurring revenue model — Andy is teaming up with his friend Jacco van der Kooij, founder of Winning by Design and author of Blueprints of a SaaS Sales Organization, to launch the Sales Leadership Accelerator Mastermind, an intensive 12-month learning, coaching, and mastermind program for the Vice Presidents of Sales of high-growth companies. If the responsibility sits on your shoulders to scale your revenue team, to hit the $100 million mark ARR and beyond, then the Sales Leadership Accelerator Mastermind will help you transform how you sell, scale, and develop the capabilities of your team to crush your goals. Enrollment is limited to a very small group, so go to SaaSSLAM.com now, to learn more and enroll today.

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#608: Use Your Passion to Achieve Breakthroughs in Sales w/ Jay Abraham

Jay Abraham, Founder and CEO of Abraham Group, Inc. and business book author, joins me on this episode of #Accelerate!

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Jay says the single biggest challenge facing sales professionals today is authenticity, credibility, and true intent on behalf of the prospective buyer. Sales reps are rewarded for the actual value they create for others.
The solution you provide must fairly remedy the pain the prospective buyer has, whether for productivity, savings, labor, time-to-market, or other need.
More sales are made with storytelling, metaphors, and analogies than are made with Powerpoint decks. Jay does not respond to requests for ‘a deck.’ It is a disservice to a product to think a prospect can see its value in a deck.
The best presentations do not involve a laptop or tablet. They harness passion for the people the solution will benefit.
Andy recently read The Abraham Mindshift Challenge that examines a different way to do business. Don’t look at what other companies in your category are doing. Look at meeting the needs of your market.
Andy quotes a statement about breakthroughs from Jay’s Getting Everything You Can book. Don’t network only within your industry, but mainly outside of it. Big breakthroughs come from outside an industry. Jay explains by examples.
The key to success is examining, understanding, appreciating, recognizing, exploring, acknowledging, and respecting how the ‘other side’ is experiencing life. It is empathy in practice. Jay tells attitudes to avoid in sales.
Jay discusses Stephen M.R. Covey’s research on trust. He found that 90% of people working in fields that rely on trust are sub-optimal in their ability to generate trust. Noble and worthy values are not found universally.
Empathy decreased year after year among college freshman for three decades according to the University of Michigan. It seems to be replaced by self-absorption. Salespeople need human values, especially empathy.
Jay talks about teaching young people how to connect with others. Breakthroughs come by open-mindedness, including curiosity. Don’t be hardened in your positions.
Jay has a 747 flight story. He learned that if the wings were rigid they would crack off. Flexibility is essential to successful flight, or to anything else in life. Knowledge doubles quickly. No one knows it all.
It’s improbable that your particular company has discovered the very best method of doing anything they do. There is always going to be a better way to do things.

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#607: Key Traits Shared by Top Sales Performers w/ Bridget Gleason

Bridget Gleason is VP of Sales for Logz.io and my regular partner on Front Line Fridays.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Andy and Bridget discuss going to Dreamforce. Andy was interviewed by Matthew Bellows of Yesware. Dreamforce took over several venues in San Francisco.
Bridget is going to Reinvent in Las Vegas. Amazon books all venues and sells them to sponsors.
Bridget will go to Boulder to visit a friend’s book club discussing The Lemon Tree. At work, there is always more to do than there is time to do it, as is typical with a startup.
Andy has been talking with leaders about who should choose sales strategies and tactics — reps, managers, or executives? Is there too much command and control in sales? Where do the science and art of selling combine?
Andy believes we are hurting ourselves by constraining the creativity and individuality of our reps and account executives. It shows itself in industry-wide results. But we have a system that leaders are loath to change.
Sales reps follow a script to sell to personas. Frontline managers are like helicopter parents. They do not let reps solve problems. Andy tells how he was given freedom — once he was trained — to adapt his process to hit quota.
Bridget attributes Andy’s case to the better training that was given in the past than reps receive today, and to the longer time a rep stayed in a role then, contrasted with reps, today. Reps today look for structure in their role.
Bridget and Andy discuss one thing top performers have in common. Bridget says it is self-motivation. Andy says it’s that they all break the rules. They shape the process to what works best for them.
Andy says we are not providing an environment to create more top performers. The people who try successful measures are given more rope to explore. He worries that holds back average performers. Are quotas too high?
How do you engage the middle group of sellers to elevate their success? Andy gives one idea.
Investors put pressure on startups to scale up, but hiring more sales reps dilutes the quality of deals and sales. Is the quota still serving profit interests?
CSO Insights says 50% of reps make quota. Another source says we are closing 20% of deals in the pipeline. A fundamental change is needed in sales thinking. Once people taste success, they want to keep succeeding

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#606: Harvest Vital Sales Intelligence from Reply Emails w/ Matt Benati

 

Matt Benati, CEO & Co-founder at LeadGnome, joins me on this episode of Accelerate!

 

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Matt says the single biggest challenge facing sales reps today is getting a voice and standing out from the rest. Prospects are overloaded. To adjust, provide true value to prospects as a partner, helping all along the sales cycle.
To stand out in any medium, don’t send the same email to every prospect. Look at email from the prospect’s point of view. When a prospect replies, listen well and follow up with information that is highly important them.
LeadGnome came from Matt’s efforts to use information found in reply email. LeadGnome uses AI to harvest relevant client information from every reply and adds the data to your account automation or CRM system.
A notice of a changing email domain could represent a rebranding or a merger/acquisition. This is critical intelligence to provide to the account team, after changing the email address as indicated.
Reply email contains intelligence from within accounts that matter to the sales team now — prospects they have already approached. This intelligence helps align marketing and sales.
LeadGnome’s ICP includes mid-market to enterprise companies sending out so many email messages that their teams cannot analyze all the replies generated. They must be savvy in their marketing stack and sales stack.
LeadGnome believes that email as a component of your go-to-market strategy is here to stay. Email has a strong conversion rate, compared to social.
Messaging and texts are areas that LeadGnome is exploring for future products.
Matt discusses strategies for timing your emails for best open rates. LeadGnome sends out one email a week, on Tuesday evening. They use double opt-in; their unsubscribe rate is negligible.
Matt compares the levels of intrusion between phone calls, emails, and texts. He suggests how to meet customer expectations about scheduling calls.
LeadGnome is not driven by investors, so they set their own goals.

 

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

For Vice Presidents of Sales of high-growth companies based on a recurring revenue model — Andy is teaming up with his friend Jacco van der Kooij, founder of Winning by Design and author of Blueprints of a SaaS Sales Organization, to launch the Sales Leadership Accelerator Mastermind, an intensive 12-month learning, coaching, and mastermind program for the Vice Presidents of Sales of high-growth companies. If the responsibility sits on your shoulders to scale your revenue team, to hit the $100 million mark ARR and beyond, then the Sales Leadership Accelerator Mastermind will help you transform how you sell, scale, and develop the capabilities of your team to crush your goals. Enrollment is limited to a very small group, so go to SaaSSLAM.com now, to learn more and enroll today.

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#605 How to Grow from Manager to Sales Leader w/ Tim Sanders

Tim Sanders, author of four books, including the New York Times bestseller Love Is the Killer App: How to Win Business & Influence Friends and Dealstorming: The Secret Weapon That Can Solve Your Toughest Sales Challenges, joins me for the second time on this episode of #Accelerate!

KEY TAKEAWAYS

Tim says the single biggest challenge facing sales reps today is the overwhelming technology. Organizations must simplify processes and choose the tools that make the biggest difference. Sales is getting more complex.
Buyer stakeholders are increasing in number but there is one dominant mobilizer and the sales rep may be able to meet that person once. Reps need a creative advantage, such as a heroic journey or a well-chosen metaphor.
A story is not an anecdote about your company. A story has movement and tension. The only way your prospect will retell the story internally is if the prospect sees themself as the protagonist. A metaphor works for this.
Tim tells how Yahoo responded when clients demanded to pay per click. Yahoo argued an iceberg metaphor for digital influence beyond the click. The metaphor made a huge impact on Yahoo’s own influence reach.
Tim shares a more recent metaphor used by Regus for the enterprise. They went from running into a brick wall to reaching the ‘cloud.’ Use either an archetypal metaphor or a contemporary metaphor to stick in the memory.
Account-Based Marketing is one segment of the market. Dealstorming has a place in ABS and ABM. Dealstorming teams in ABS are smaller and tend to stay intact over time. Tim explains how they operate.
Most IT decisions are now made by managers buying software without consulting IT. IT is sweeping out ‘shadow IT’ solutions. Go through the IT department for success at a client. Land-and-expand only works through channels.
Tim notes the difference between a sales manager and a sales leader. It’s ‘zeroes’ or ‘commas.’ Sell the larger products.
Tim talks about hiring and management and the leader-management-exchange or LMX theory in sales. Reward competence and dedication with latitude. Similarly, reps give value to prospects in return for time.
KPIs and activity metrics are not the keys to success. Tim tells a story of CareerBuilder shaping their culture through rewarding competency commitment and dedication.
Demonstrate an intense level of curiosity. Create your own learning plan outside of the company’s learning plan. Show EQ.
Develop competency in the human elements of sales.

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

For Vice Presidents of Sales of high-growth companies and built on recurring revenue — Andy is teaming up with his friend Jacco van der Kooij, founder of Winning by Design and author of Blueprints of a SaaS Sales Organization, to launch the Sales Leadership Accelerator Mastermind, an intensive 12-month learning, coaching, and mastermind program for the Vice Presidents of Sales of high-growth subscription-based companies. If the responsibility sits on your shoulders to scale your revenue team, to hit the $100 million mark ARR and beyond, then the Sales Leadership Accelerator Mastermind will help you transform how you sell, scale, and develop the capabilities of your team to crush your goals. Enrollment is limited to a very small group, so go to SaaSSLAM.com now, to learn more and enroll today.

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