Rachel Held Evans's Blog, page 32

Faith, Doubt and the Idol of Certainty: An Interview with Greg Boyd

“The quest to feel certain becomes an idol when a person’s sense of significance to God and security before God is anchored not in their simple trust of God’s character, as revealed on the cross, but in how certain they feel about the rightness of their beliefs.” – Greg Boyd 

Today I am just thrilled to share an interview with theologian and teacher Greg Boyd, whose new book, Benefit of the Doubt, releases this week.  Greg is the co-founder of Woodland Hills Church in St. Paul, Minnesota where he serves as Senior Pastor, speaking to thousands each week. He has authored or co-authored 18 books and numerous academic articles, including his best-selling and award-winning Letters From a Skeptic and his recent books Repenting of Religion and The Myth of a Christian Nation. Greg has also been featured on the front page of The New York Times, The Charlie Rose Show, CNN, National Public Radio, the BBC and numerous other television and radio venues. 

What I love about Greg’s work is his commitment to both intellectual integrity and faithful obedience. His books always challenge me to not only think, but to act. And his latest, Benefit of the Doubt, is right up my alley…and likely many of yours too…for it tackles issues related to faith, doubt, certainty, and obedience. I think you will find many of Greg’s thoughts here helpful and profound. Enjoy! 

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Rachel: First of all, thank you so much for this book.  I really related to your personal experience with doubt and found myself underlining paragraph after paragraph of Benefit of the Doubt, praying your words would reach those who need it the most.  To start off, tell us a little of your own story. What triggered your first doubts about your faith?

Greg: Thanks Rachel, I appreciate the opportunity to talk.  I don’t know if I can say when I first had doubts about my faith, because my faith has pretty much always been accompanied by doubt.  But it was a prayer meeting I attended twenty-some years ago that first got me questioning the very concept of faith that most Christians embrace today.  A dozen or so other people and I had gathered to pray for a young man who had been diagnosed with brain cancer.  At the beginning of the meeting the lady who owned the house we were in stood up and read Jesus’ statement, “according to your faith it will be done to you.”  She then told us that if our faith was free of doubt, this young man would be healed. The implication was that if we doubted, he would not be healed. 

As we entered into prayer for this young man, everyone in the room felt pressure to try to make ourselves certain that this man was in fact going to be healed. As I share in my book, after a couple of minutes of praying the image of the Lion on the Wizard of Oz suddenly popped into my mind and I saw him saying, “I do believe, I do believe, I do, I do, I DO believe!” just as he does in the movie.  It occurred to me that this was exactly what we were doing. We were trying to talk ourselves into becoming certain, as if faith was a sort of psychological gimmick.  And it made me wonder what kind of God would leverage the life of a young man on how well we were to perform this psychological gimmickry, and about a matter that, if we’re honest with ourselves, we can’t be certain of.  It seemed like we were caught in a cruel, twisted joke! 

This motivated me to begin to seriously question whether the notion that our faith is as strong as we are free of doubt is really an accurate understanding of faith. The Benefit of the Doubt is really the outcome of that line of questioning that began in that prayer meeting so many years ago.  

 Can you explain what “certainty-seeking faith” is and why you claim that it's a problem today? 

 “Certain-seeking faith” is the sort of faith that people were trying to exercise in the prayer meeting I just talked about.  It’s the assumption that a person’s faith is as strong as they are free of doubt and that striving to have a “strong” (viz. doubt-free) faith somehow pleases God. I’ve found that this is how most Christians today think about faith, and it causes far more damage than most people realize (I spend two chapters in my book fleshing out these problems).  In fact, I argue that this misguided model of faith is at the root of most of the struggles believers have with the Christian faith and behind most of the negative things non-believers associate with the Christian faith. 

Among other things, as I stated earlier, this model reduces faith to a psychological gimmick in which people try to convince themselves that their beliefs are true beyond what the evidence warrants.  Thoughtful people legitimately wonder why God would consider this ability virtuous, to the point of leveraging people’s eternal welfare on it!  So too, this model makes thoughtful people who have perfectly reasonable doubts feel guilty and rewards people who either lack the concern or the intellectual curiosity to question their beliefs by making them feel like they have “strong” faith.  

On top of this, those who embrace “certainty-seeking faith” tend to become narrow-minded, for honestly trying to see things from other peoples’ point of view might lead them to question their faith and thereby jeopardize their “salvation.“ In fact, this model can easily lead people to develop learning phobias, for if you dare to read broadly and learn to see things from other people’s point of view, you might uncovering facts that could shake your certainty and thus displease God. I’m convinced this explains why Christians, especially conservative Christians, have a well-deserved reputation in the broader culture for being narrow-minded.

You go so far as to claim that certainty-seeking faith is “idolatrous.”  That is a huge claim, especially since this is the kind of faith most Christians today embrace! Can you explain it further? And how can we break free from it?

In the book I make the case that we are created with a core need to feel fully alive, unconditionally loved and worthwhile, and ultimately secure, and God created us with this need because he wants to meet it, and is the only one who can actually meet it.  An idol, I argue, is anything we use in place of God to meet this core need. While many people try to meet this need with the idols of wealth, power, success, sex and other such things, many Christians try to meet it with the idol of certainty-seeking faith. The quest to feel certain becomes an idol when a person’s sense of significance to God and security before God is anchored not in their simple trust of God’s character, as revealed on the cross, but in how certain they feel about the rightness of their beliefs. This form of idolatry is a danger whenever people assume (rightly) that they are saved by faith while also (mistakenly) equating faith with their sense of certainty.  For it means they now feel “saved” – uniquely significant and secure before God – on the basis of their psychological certainty. 

As I show in Benefit of the Doubt, the only way to get free from this without falling into some other form of idolatry is to realize that biblical faith isn’t about feeling certain, but about a willingness to commit to living for God in the face of uncertainty.  We need to accept that uncertainty is simply part of what it means to be human and to trust that God’s love for us, revealed most perfectly on Calvary, isn’t dependent on how certain or uncertain we feel.  The God revealed on Calvary isn’t a God who is impressed with people’s ability to make themselves feel certain that their beliefs are right.  He’s rather a God who simply wants us to trust him, in the face of uncertainty, by lovingly laying down our lives for him in response the way he has lovingly laid down his life for us. 

What difference do you see between ‘faith’ and ‘belief’?  And why do you believe this distinction is important?

 As I define them, “belief “ is an opinion about something or someone, while “faith” is a willingness to commit to a course of action on the basis of that opinion.  When I married Shelley, my wife, I had to first believe a number of things about her, but I only became married to her when I demonstrated faith by being willing to commit to living the rest of my life as her husband. 

The most important thing for people to realize about this is that salvation is not merely about beliefs that people hold.  James tells us the demons “believe,” but it does them absolutely no good (Ja 2:19).  Salvation is rather about entering into a marriage-like, covenantal, relationship with God through Jesus Christ by exercising faith. And whereas one might measure beliefs in terms of how certain or uncertain a person feels, the measure of faith is simply about how willing one is to trust God’s character and how faithful a person is in living out the covenantal relationship they have with the Lord, despite the uncertainties they may have.  

Sadly, many today think that people are “saved” simply because they espouse certain beliefs, apart from any consideration of how they live.  This is why research demonstrates that the vast majority of Americans admit to believing in Jesus (and a host of other “Christian” things) while also demonstrating that this belief has very little impact on how they actually live.   It also explains why so many mistakenly think God is impressed with our level of certainty over our beliefs, when in fact the only thing that means anything to God is how faithful his people are in trusting his character and in living in relationship with him, regardless of whatever level of certainty they have, or don’t have.

In the book you write that, “God enters covenants, not contracts, with people.” Could you share a little about how the court-of-law framework of theology has affected how we read the Bible? 

This is a very important point that I spend a lot of time on in my book. Whereas a “contract” is a deal between parties, a “covenant” is a commitment that involves the parties themselves.  Contracts involve exchanging money, work or possessions, while covenants involve a commitment of our life. And while covenants are rooted in people trusting one another, contracts are only necessary when people don’t trust one another. So too, while contracts are about what different parties can get from one another, covenants are about what different parties pledge to give of themselves toward one another.   Buying a car or house involves a contract: getting married involves a covenant.  

Unfortunately, while covenants permeated the lives of people in biblical times, western culture is entirely contractual. Indeed, marriage is the only remaining covenant we have, and people today are unfortunately increasingly viewing even this in terms of a contract.  Because of this, most contemporary western Christians interpret Scripture’s covenantal concepts as if they were contractual, and as I show in Benefit of the Doubt, this has fundamentally screwed up our understanding of a number of theological concepts in Scripture. 

Can you give us an example? 

Sure. Consider the way most Christians think about “salvation.” They think of it primarily in legal and contractual ways. God the Father is the judge, we are the guilty defendants, and Jesus is our lawyer.  In this view, the Father was going to send us to eternal prison (hell), which we deserved, until Jesus stepped in and worked out a strange deal with the Father in which he somehow takes on our guilt and our punishment, while we are acquitted, assuming we can believe these things are true with a requisite degree of certainty. 

It’s of course true the Bible uses some legal metaphors to describe salvation, but as I demonstrate in my book, the primary framework, and the framework in which even the legal metaphors should be understood, is covenantal.  This dramatically changes everything! Understood as a covenantal concept, salvation, isn’t about a deal that takes place between us and God. It’s rather about entering into a marriage-like relationship with God – a relationship that involves us pledging ourselves to him in response to the pledge of himself he offered us on Calvary. So too, whereas the legal model was focused on belief and therefore didn’t involve our character transformation as a central consideration, the covenant model is all about character, for its anchored in faith, and as I’ve said, covenantal faith is about our willingness to trust another and to live in a trustworthy way in relation to another. 

You can also see the significant difference between these two models of salvation by the sorts of questions they inspire. If a person is thinking in terms of the contractual model, there are all sorts of legal-type questions that need to be addressed. For example, since salvation is a legal deal, it makes sense to wonder if the deal can be “undone” (the debate about eternal security)?  If it can’t be “undone,” it makes sense to wonder what, if any, are the negative consequences for living in ways we know God disapproves of?  

On the other hand, if the “salvation-deal” can be undone, it makes sense to wonder what are the precise legal conditions that would undo it? Is the “salvation-deal” undone if a person fornicates, for example, and dies before they can repent? And (here’s one I’ve found Christian engaged couples ask frequently), what exactly does it mean to “fornicate”?  How close to “vaginal penetration” can you get before you “cross the line?  In the contractual framework, it naturally makes sense to want to get away with as much as you can without “crossing the line,” for contracts, recall, are predicated on a lack of trust and are about what individuals can get from one another. 

The mindset behind these questions makes perfect sense in a contractual, court-of-law framework, but that make no sense whatsoever in a covenantal framework. No one in a remotely healthy marriage would ever wonder about how much they could get away with before their spouse would divorce them, for example.  And if a spouse ever did wonder about this, it would simply reveal that he or she was already dishonoring their covenant.  For one only resorts to contractual thinking when the covenantal pledge to give of oneself to another and to trust and be trustworthy toward another is absent. 

In this light, and in light of how pervasive the legal paradigm is in contemporary Christ thinking, is it any wonder we see so live covenantal trust and trustworthiness in the lives of professing Christians today?  

You acknowledge that one of the greatest challenges confronting people who believe the Bible is “God’s Word” concerns the violent portraits of God in the Bible. and you spend a whole chapter on this topic. What advice do you have for people who are deeply troubled by these portraits?

There are three things I share in Benefit of the Doubt about this incredibly important topic.  The first is that I attempt to show that the revelation of God in Jesus Christ isn’t just one revelation among many others in Scripture. He is rather depicted as the supreme revelation that culminates and surpasses all others. God spoke in many different ways in the past, the author of Hebrews tells us, but in these “last days” he has spoken “through the Son.”  And in contrast to all that came before, the Son is “the radiance of his glory” and “the exact representation of his being (hupostasis, meaning “essence,” Heb. 1:1-3).  This is why Jesus could say such radical things as; “If you see me, you see the Father” (Jn.14:9) and could claim that all Scripture points to him (Jn 5:39-45; Lk 24: 25-7; 44-7). What this implies, I contend, is that, whether we can explain the violent portraits of God in the OT or not,   it would be unfaithful for us to ever allow anything we find in the OT to compromise what we learn about God in him. 

Second, I argue that as the NT depicts it, the cross sums up and supremely expresses everything Jesus was about.   This is why John said, on the basis of what he learned about God from Jesus, that “God is love” (I Jn,.4:8) and then defined the kind of “love” that God is by pointing us to the cross (I Jn 3:16). God’s very essence, in other words, is cross-like love. On the one hand, this increases the problem of the OT’s violent portraits of God, for the cross reveals a God who would rather did for his enemies than use his power to crush them.  So we have to wonder, how do portraits of God commanding genocide or causing mothers to cannibalize their babies point to the enemy-loving, non-violent God revealed on the cross?!  On the other hand, however, I argue that the cross itself holds the key to solving this problem, which leads to my third point. 

The cross reveals that, out of his covenantal faithfulness and unfathomable love, God is willing to stoop to bear the sin of his people and thereby take on an appearance that reflects the ugliness of their sin. Yet, in doing this, God reveals his true nature, for as we look upon the God-forsaken, guilty-appearing criminal on the cross, we know that it was God who voluntarily stooped an infinite distance to become this for us.  Now, if the cross reveals what God is really like, then it reveals what God has always been like. And this means we should read Scripture with the awareness that God has always been willing to stoop to bear the sin of his people and take on appearances that reflect the ugliness of their sin.  

I thus suggest that we should read all Scripture “through the lens of the cross,” and when we do this, we can begin to see how even the most horrendous portraits of God in the OT bear witness to the God revealed on the cross.  The cross reveals God to us only when we look past the surface appearance that reflects the ugliness of our sin and discern in its depth our gracious God stooping to bear our sin and take on this ugly appearance for us.  In this light, I suggest we should read Scripture always asking, where else might we find that God is revealed not by how he appears on the surface, but by what faith can discern as we look past the surface to discern God humbly stooping to bear the sin of his people? 

My short answer to this question is that, whenever we come upon portraits of God that, to one degree or another, fall beneath the beautiful, non-violent portrait we are given in the crucified Christ, we should assume that the revelatory content of these portraits is, to this degree, not found on the surface of the portrait itself, but in what faith can discern happening beneath the surface as it beholds God stooping to bear the sin if his people.  Hence, I submit that the ugliness of portraits such as the one of Yahweh commanding his people to slaughter “everything that breathes” or of causing mothers to cannibalize their children reflects the ugly, fallen, culturally conditioned hearts of his people, not God himself. What rather reveals God is that, out of his covenantal faithfulness and unfathomable love, he was willing to stoop to bear the sin of his people by being willing to take on this literary appearance in the inspired record of his covenantal activity (viz. the biblical narrative). 

You are such a prolific writer and theologian, and you’ve written about everything from open theism, to Satan and demons, to politics (The Myth of a Christian Nation is among my most often recommend books), to the problem of suffering. What’s next on the horizon for you? What are you feeling most passionate about right now? 

Right now I’m in the final stages of a massive research project I’ve been working on for five years that develops and defends the thesis I just outlined in response to your previous question.  It’s entitled The Crucifixion of the Warrior God: Reinterpreting the Old Testament’s Violent Portraits of God in Light of the Cross. To say I’m “passionate” about this topic  is a massive understatement! I’ve been absolutely obsessed with this Scripture’s’ violent portraits of God, for I believe these portraits constitute one of the biggest reasons why many abandon the faith while many others refuse to take the Bible as God’s Word seriously. It’s also the primary reason why most Christians today refuse to accept that God is altogether as beautiful as he’s revealed to be on the cross and/or that God is unconditionally opposed to all violence.  

Because I’m proposing a new hermeneutic, I needed to make my case as airtight and as comprehensive as possible, which is why the book has taken me five years to research and write and has now evolved to over 600 pages! But non-academics need not worry, because I plan on following it quickly with a much shorter work that will capture the gist of my argument, but without all the scholarly material that’s packed into the larger academic book. I hope to have both finished by the beginning of 2014 which means they should be published (by InterVarsity Press) by the end of 2014. 

 When it comes to theology, you seem to have a curious mind and an explorer’s heart. How do you handle the inevitable criticism that comes along with that? 

I make it my primary goal of every day to get all of my “life” – my core need to be loved, to feel worthwhile, and to feel ultimate secure – from what God thinks about me as revealed on the cross.  I believe this is the most fundamental objective for disciples of Jesus.  To the extent that Christ is our “life,” we don’t need to be trying to get “life” from what people think about us, or from any other potential idol I might latch onto.  But to the degree we don’t get all our “life” from Christ, we can’t help but try to get it from what people think about us, or from some other idol.  This is sheer bondage.  Only to the degree that all our “life” is from Christ can we live in true freedom.  And only to this degree can we “die to ourselves” and live out the radical call of the kingdom to imitate Jesus by lovingly sacrificing ourselves for all others, including those who would identify themselves as our “enemy.”

Thanks so much for asking such great questions Rachel! Keep up your great Kingdom work! 

Thanks for this profound and thought-provoking responses, Greg. You are ALWAYS welcome here! 

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Be sure to check out Greg’s new book, Benefit of the Doubt. And if you haven’t found Greg’s ReKnew site, you’re missing out; there are tons of great resources, articles, and discussions there. And if you’re interested in hearing Greg speak on the topics covered in this interview, consider participating in the upcoming ReKnew conference on Faith, Doubt, and the Idol of Certainty, September 27-28 at Wooldand Hills Church in St. Paul, MN. 

 

Does the Bible really condemn committed gay relationships?

For a lot of Christians, particularly evangelical Christians, that’s the million-dollar question, isn’t it? 

Most of us who grew up in a conservative church environment are familiar with the texts typically associated with this question—found in Genesis 19, Leviticus 18 & 20, Romans 1, I Corinthians 6, and 1 Timothy 1—and their interpretation from the traditional perspective. 

So how do Christians who believe in the authority of Scripture and who also support committed gay/lesbian relationships interpret these passages? 

I’ve read several books and articles exploring both the traditional and affirming perspectives, but perhaps no one else so succinctly, persuasively, and carefully presents the affirming view than Matthew Vines in his now-famous no-frills, one-hour lecture on the topic, delivered at a church in his Kansas hometown. Upon confronting the reality that he was gay, Matthew, a committed Christian, left college to devote two years to studying the topic. Now he has launched The Reformation Project, a non-profit organization dedicated to changing church teaching on sexual orientation and gender identity. He is currently writing a book for publication by Random House in early 2014.

While Matthew is essentially just presenting the same arguments various biblical scholars have been making for decades, he summarized the position so well, it’s worth sharing for discussion. So I’ve embedded the video and linked to the transcript below.

I know it’s a bit long, but if we’re going to discuss this issue, it’s only fair to familiarize ourselves with both “sides” in the discussion and, unfortunately, what I hear most often from evangelicals is that the Bible is absolutely unambiguous on the topic and that those who would deny that are simply denying the authority of Scripture. I think this shows that there are thoughtful Christians who are both committed to Scripture and unconvinced that all gay relationships are sinful. You don’t have to agree with them to take them and their perspectives seriously and respond to them charitably. 

Here’s the video (with captioning): 

Here’s the transcript: 

The Gay Debate: The Bible and Homosexuality

You can read a conservative critique of Matthew Vines’ presentation here and here. 

A few questions for discussion: 

What most resonated with you from Matthew’s presentation? Which points were the strongest, and which would you say were the weakest? Which traditionalist response offered the best crituqe? Did the responses adequately address the challenges to the traditionalist viewpoint raised by Matthew? How so? How do you interpret these passages and how did you arrive at that posture? What would you say is the strongest point made by those with whom you disagree? What is the weakest? What are you most unsure about? 

[I'll share some of my thoughts in a comment below.] 

Let’s keep the conversation civil and constructive, and please take the time to read/watch before weighing in. (I realize this requires some time commitment, but given the intensity of this debate and the profoundly personal nature of it, I think it’s worth taking the time to seriously consider the various viewpoints—whether through these resources or others; don’t you? I’ll make sure to check the comments throughout the week so you have plenty of time to read/watch before weighing in.) 

 

Sunday Superlatives 9/15/13

IRL…

I felt right at home this weekend with the good people of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship of South Carolina, who not only make amazingly delicious food but also love to talk college football! It was a special privilege to meet Suzii Paynter, (left), the executive coordinator of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship and one of just a few women in the U.S. elected as the head of a Christian denomination. I’m pictured here with Suzii and Jay Kieve, coordinator for CBF South Carolina and all-around "dude of valor."  Now I’m an SEC girl through and through, but I confess I may have caught just a touch of Clemson fever while in town! Thanks to everyone at CBF for their encouragement and support. 

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Also, please be in prayer for Dan's sweet mom, Norma. A CT scan recently revealed a tennis-ball-sized pituitary tumor in her head. While it is benign and likely operable, it's still scary. Pray for Dan and his brothers and sisters as they surround Mom Norma and support her through this tough time. 

Around the Blogosphere…

Most Inspiriting (nominated by Rebecca Lujan Loveless) 
Rachel Macy Stafford at The Huffington Post with “Six Words You Should Say Today”

“My daughter slowly leaned into me, resting her damp head against my chest for several seconds, and expelled a heavy sigh. And in doing so, I swear I could read her mind: The pressure's off. She just loves to watch me swim; that is all.”

Most Insightful: 
Geoff Holsclaw at Missio Alliance with “The Scandal of the Evangelical Memory, Part 2”

“…Only by understanding our history will we understand that evangelicalism should not be judged by its adherence to Neo-Reformed distinctives, nor that being “conservative” as opposed to liberal is its founding moment.  If we don’t know our history we are destined to continue repeating our false history, perpetually stuck in a conservative-liberal battle.  And we are liable to keep blowing people away just like Leon the replicant.” 

Most Relatable: 
Abby Norman with “Maybe We Need to Need”

“But when are we allowed to be tired? When does someone pick us up? I wonder if we are leaving the church because what we need is to put on yoga pants and have some tea and really see each other. We need to spill the tangled mess of our harried lives to each other and just cry together.  Instead, what we are being offered is more programming that someone has to run. Maybe us.”

Most Powerful:
Diana Trautwein  at Deeper Story with “The Language of Lament” 

“But. . . I cannot, indeed, I must not, get to those words without first singing out the plaintive words of lament, without first acknowledging my pain, my confusion, my sorrow. Lament leads me where I need to be. Lament loosens something inside, opens doors and windows into the soul and the psyche. Lament, even the angriest, darkest lament, allows me to be me, to be real, to be honest. And when someone comes alongside me when I am in the midst of the grief, I need that someone to listen, maybe even to offer some harmony in that minor key. I do not need reminders of God’s goodness, God’s plan, God’s sovereignty. Not yet. I’ll get there. But when I’m sitting in the in-between, when I am walking through the valley — please let me sing the sad song for as long as I need to. And if you can, sing it with me. Then, together, we can turn the corner as the psalmists do. We can pour out the pain and make room for the praise, we can sit in the ashes and reach for the roses, we can discover again that we are safe in the presence of God.”

Most Challenging (nominated by Kelley Nikondeha)
D.L. Mayfield with “If You Knew Me, You Would Care” 

“But it’s easier to close the book, go back to my life of worries. I write blog posts about downward mobility and dream at night of one day having a space for my child to run in the grass; I spend an hour or two praying for eyes to see and hands to bless my neighborhood, and sink exhausted on my couch every night, escaping either into a book or a television show. Because I know people now, and they have made me care. But here is the other truth that no one want to talk about, that we spend all our time protecting at all costs: our culture thrives on forgetting. On distractions, petty concerns, and the crushing pursuit of individual comfort. Every day is a struggle to care. The only thing that makes it easier is if you are forced to confront it, time and time again. If you put yourself in the position where you can’t opt out–where there are no drive-through Starbucks, clean and bright Barnes and Nobles, massive church complexes with state-of-the-art sets. Where instead there are tangible evidences of the disparity of our economic system, where people are much more comfortable in voicing both their joys and complaints in the streets. In order to care, it turns out, I have to be in a place where every day I have to look one simple truth in the eye: my reality is not the reality of the majority world.”

Most Fascinating: 
David Mitchell with “A Peak Into My Son’s Head” (on the translation of Naoki Higashida’s “The Reason I Jump” into English) 

Most Vulnerable: 
Osheta Moore with “For the days I don’t feel black enough”

“Then my own hair betrayed me, telling me, ‘you’re not even black enough to take better care of me.’” 

Most Prayerful (nominated by Leigha Cann and Abby Norman) 
Esther Emery with “Blessings for the Weary” 

“For the hour of the weary, and the day that you are just plumb tired. I pray that you would know this hour, too, as sacred. Even these weary moments. Even these gaps between gold stars and Hallmark cards.”

Most Thoughtful: 
Joyce Maynard at the New York Times with “Was Salinger Too Pure For This World?”

“Sadly, this is not an uncommon story, and has been played out by many besides Salinger. It seems the myth survives in our culture still, that a young girl’s worth, measured against that of a great man, may be of lesser consequence. As the mother of a daughter myself, I would say rather that a man who treats those offering up their love and trust as expendable is lesser himself for having done so. There is art, and there are artists. Let’s not confuse the two.” 

Most Important:
Luke Harms at Deeper Story with “Your Story Is Worth Finishing”

“I started thinking about a new note, one to reach out for help instead of offering premature goodbyes.”

Best Storytelling: 
Nathan Kennedy at Registered Runaway’s blog with “These Hallowed Grounds: Nathan’s Story” 

“And yes, people will make fun of me for being the guy in white loafers. They will mutter their insults and their epithets, try to convince me that the God I seek hates everything about my sexuality, and even have me fear for my very safety at times. But they can never take from me what I have won for myself: the unity of my outer and inner worlds; the integrity of my identity with my expression. That, after all, is what being out means. It’s the reclamation of the humanity of my sexuality – and the refusal to submit it to inauthentic definitions.”

Best Analysis: 
Nathan Smith (with Vinoth Ramachandra) with “The Gospel Coalition’s ‘Theological Famine’” 

"Sounds loving, until one asks: who decides who is theologically famished and who is not? who selects what “resources” to send the famished? who decides what constitutes “equipping” and who should be doing it? The answer is always the same. A small group of white, well-to-do American or British males. We have experienced such paternalistic, colonial “mission” before- others deciding what is the “Good News” for us, what is “sound doctrine”, which authors to read and whom to avoid, etc. They have exported their theological blind-spots and sectarian rivalries, reproducing carbon-copies of themselves in the global South rather than nurturing real leaders. The learning and theological traffic is all one-way. Perhaps a day spent with leaders like Pope Francis or Desmond Tutu may be more useful for African pastors than all the “resources” from north America.”

Best Lecture: 
Scot McKnight with “Are Atonement Theories Like Golf Clubs?” 

 

Best Series: 

Best Series:
Brown-Eyed Amazon with “Out of the Closet and Into the Pews” 

Best Line: 
Joy Ubani in “#BlackGirlProblmes at a Christian College" with ““Frankly, I thought my hair washing regimen was my business.” 

Best New (To Me) Gif-Based Tumblr 
Ev’ry Day I’m Pastorin’ 

Best Critique: 
Michael Wiltshire reviews Mark Driscoll’s book “Pastor Dad” 

Bravest: 
Grace Biskie with “Come Hiter, Men, I Have Sex Demons” 

“This little girl who was 4 feet, 10 inches tall & barely 80 pounds with no breasts was given one repeated message: the whole of you is for sex.” 

Wisest:
Charles Self at Missio Alliance with “Liberated From Ideological Captivity: Becoming Creative, Ecumenical and Hospitable” 

“When free from ideological constraints, the creativity of the Holy Spirit can inspire solutions to apparently intractable problems. Creativity is more than compromise or a facile “third way.” Within the bounds of the ways of God, creativity comes to individuals and communities, church boards and mission agencies. It may even be found among business and political leaders willing to serve the common good.”

Coolest Initiative: 
Redefine Positive

Redefine - Reforming HIV/AIDS Education from North 40 Productions on Vimeo.

[And a hearty “eshet chayil to Jode Howerton for spearheading this project!]

From Guatemala…

Jamie Wright with “Fighting Poverty is Like So 2012” and “Seedlings” 

“Admittedly, World Vision is doing a whole bunch of cool things here in Guatemala that are way more practical than a music program. But this? These proud kids and their proud Moms, this was the thing that moved me. I know it's not gritty or gross. It's not appalling. It's certainly not the face of poverty we're used to. But maybe it's time to give poverty a new face. And maybe it's time to change her name. I think Hope has a nice ring to it, don't you?” 

Micha Boyett with “Let’s Be Ordinary. Let’s Be Extravagant.” 

“I’m in Guatemala this week to tell you small stories about real people. I’m here to ask you to do the most ordinary sort of thing, which is to love one person extravagantly.” 

Zack Hunt with “What if we’re the ones that need saving?”

“And so amongst the ruins of my old theology, rich and poor, old and young, Americans and Guatemalans, we broke bread together and shared the cup together and together we caught a glimpse of the kingdom of God.”

Shelby Zacharias with “Guide Mother” 

 “The Guide Mother, like Marta, is a volunteer with World Vision. She is trained and in this case she opens her home to be a community center to evaluate the progress of the children and to teach their mothers proper care. Recovery starts with a 12 day educational course where mothers come to learn about health and nutrition. After the 12 day course, the mothers monitor their children’s health over time as they implement the skills they learned. Once a month the mothers meet for meals like this to continue their education and to evaluate the well-being of the children. They also receive help in the areas where they are struggling. They learn skills like how to prepare water for various tasks, how to properly wash dishes, how to make their meal more nutritious and how to maintain basic hygiene practices. As the mothers learn and practice good nutrition and hygiene, they go on to share what they have learned with their friends and other mothers, becoming guide mothers themselves. This is the knowledge chain that World Vision uses to create sustainable health practices. Where mothers teach mothers. This is community building. Neighbors helping neighbors. Mothers helping mothers.”

Matthew Paul Turner with “Proof That God Exists”

“Instead, when we hear the word poverty or read about the thousand or more consequences of poverty, our hearts and minds shut down. We grow cynical. We turn skeptical. We’re bored.”

Note: I confess I was something of a child sponsorship skeptic before I had the chance to see what World Vision was doing on the ground in Bolivia. After soliciting questions and concerns from readers, I wrote a post entitled “Confessions of a Sponsorship Skeptic” that you can check out if you have questions yourself, and you can read all my posts from Bolivia here.  Please consider sponsoring a child in Guatemala. 

On the blog…

Most Popular Post:
“The Thing I’d Love to Forget About the People I Disagree With”

Most Popular Comment: 
In response to “From the Wife of a Queer Man,” Tiffany Bridge wrote: 

The writer is careful to say (which I appreciate and strongly agree with) that her marriage should not be used as a cudgel for other LGBTQ people. I do think there is one instructive point here, however, that I hope is not too presumptuous of a conclusion to draw: It seems to me that this marriage is a blessing to the people in it for the same reason marriage is a blessing to other people- no one is trying to hide who they are from their spouse, and their spouse isn't sitting around waiting for them to change. It's based on openness, honesty, and enthusiastic acceptance. Whether the husband thinks of himself as someone attracted to men but with the significant exception of his wife, or whether he thinks of himself as bisexual, is beside the point. They've created an atmosphere without shame where they can be fully themselves. The reason "reparative therapy" and "ex-gay" ministries are so destructive is because they are, fundamentally, based on shame and lack of acceptance. If we stopped shaming people and assuming that we know better than they do about the contours of their sexuality, how much better could we love LGBTQ people.

***

So, what caught your eye online this week? What’s happening on your blog? 

 

Ask Derek Webb...(Response)

Today I am thrilled to share the latest installment of our “Ask…” interview series featuring your questions and responses from singer-songwriter Derek Webb. 

Derek has been back in the headlines recently with the release of his latest album, I Was Wrong, I’m Sorry & I Love You .  A veteran of the Christian music industry, he first gained prominence as a member of the folk rock band Caedmon’s Call, and then later embarked on a successful solo career. As a member of Caedmon’s Call, Derek saw career sales approaching 1 million records, along with 10 GMA Dove Award nominations, three Dove Award wins, and six #1 Christian radio hits. Since leaving Caedmon’s Call, Derek has released seven studio albums, generating some controversy—particular with Stockholm Syndrome, a more electronic album in which Derek wrestles with tough questions around sexuality, race, and social justice. Derek lives in Nashville, Tennessee, with his wife, fellow singer-songwriter Sandra McCracken. 

You asked some great questions, which we narrowed down to seven, and Derek didn’t take a pass on a single one. I think you will appreciate the thoughtfulness with which he responds. Enjoy!

From Rachel: When I think about what the "Christian" music industry was like back when Caedmon's Call was playing all around the country (when I was in high school/college) and what it is like today, it's really kind of mind-blowing. Much ink has been spilt over how much the industry has changed, but I'm wondering how those changes have affected you personally as someone who has managed to be a continuous creative force throughout them. So, what do you miss the most about the "Christian music heyday" of the 80s and 90s and what do you miss the least?

Yeah, a lot has changed in that scene.  When we came into it, the “Christian” music industry was at its peak of efficiency.  Long term contracts were being signed, large budgets were being handed out, and lots of records were being sold.  As it has always been, it was a sub-culture living off the scraps of the dominant culture (rather than more rightly being the counter-culture it was designed to be).  Caedmon’s had a great run at a great moment, maybe the last moment when success like that, achieved that way, was possible.  

But unfortunately, as happens with a lot of artists, I feel like it got the better of us.  A wise man once said that the two worst things for a band are success and failure, especially in that order.  So once we had a taste of things we hadn’t previously cared about or wanted and were no longer receiving them, we started to even sub-consciously accept pressure to put our hands on those controls in order to find our way back to that ‘success’.  

And that’s the great risk of concentrated success.  You wind up in the ‘platform maintenance’ business, spending all of your time and creativity building and securing a platform that you are less and less likely to ever ascend.  And that becomes the whole job, just building and tinkering with that platform.  But the higher it gets and the higher the stakes get because of people whose livelihoods are wrapped up in it, it begins to eclipse the reason you started in the first place.

So my goal in my career has been to stay low to the ground, even to self-sabotage if necessary.  That way, if I get knocked off of my platform as a result of doing my job well, it’s easy to climb back on. And if the platform is destroyed beneath my feet, I can quickly course-correct and rebuild it.  It keeps me honest and keeps me in the job.

From J.R.: You have put a lot of thought and effort into discussing the church over the years. Is there one thing you see as the biggest issue/blind spot for the church, an area where Christianity is failing to live up to its promise and purpose? What, if any, solution do you see?

If I had to distill it to one issue (which is almost impossible to do fairly or accurately, seeking to describe such a diverse body), I would say it’s that the visible church seems to care more about ideas than people.  Listen, I know that the universal church are ‘diverse members of one body,’ and are therefore actually supposed to disagree.  It would be arguably sinful if we were all reaching the same conclusions on how to build the kingdom, if we had the same opinions about issues of politics or sexuality.  But what matters more than that is that we disagree in a way that is civil, if not loving.  

We must remain diverse and yet value each other more than we value our opinions.  I would never ask someone to change their opinion as much as I might ask them to change the tone and posture with which they express that opinion.  I think until we can find a way to more than tolerate, but truly love, people who are different that we are, we will be really bad advertisements for Jesus.

From Norman: Imagine a church is burying a time capsule, to be opened in the year 2113. They want to put one of your solo studio albums in it, with a short note from you attached. Which album would you put in, and what would you write on the note?

Hard to say.  I suppose I would put my first album, She Must & Shall Go Free in there.  And the note would read: “Without knowing the needs or reality of the world in which you live, I know that your hearts are no different than mine here in 2013.  I wish for this music to be sanity-restoring in a world that like mine, seeks to steal your sanity from you.

From Kristen: Can you coach me on how to have a well-publicized feud with a hip-hop artist? I tried to start one with Biz Markie but he totally ignored me.

All I can tell you is how I managed mine: Be a huge fan, express what a huge fan you are, sprinkle in a little honesty about the frequency of their tweets (and your own, to be fair), get blocked.  It’s just as simple as that.

From Registered Runaway: First of all, Derek, when I heard the song "Wedding Dress" on a road trip with my brother, I cried a little. It is still one of my favorite songs, so, thank you for creating it! As a gay Christian man, my question to you is, how have your views evolved in the LGBT conversation. I saw that you were touring with Jennifer Knapp and were receiving some flack from the conservative community about singing with an "unrepentant homosexual." I also saw that you played at the GCN conference and have been very active in loving your gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. Have you reached your own theological conclusions on this? Or are you, like much of the Christian community, still *wrestling* through your thoughts? (which is fine, by the way, and necessary!) Looking forward to downloading your latest!

I have always been concerned watching the way the church fumbles with their treatment of and response to the LGBT community.  I have had many close friends and family members who have been at the business end of the church’s judgment on those issues.  And I have been largely reluctant to talk publicly about my opinions on the morality of the issue, something I believe the church has said enough about at this point (and recklessly so, which has done more harm than good).

The main reason for my silence on this issue is that answering would likely remove me from the unique position I am in to be able to stand between these two groups, to try and hold hands with both and work for reconciliation.  I am ok with being disliked and potentially misunderstood (and therefore judged) if it means doing my job well.  Answering essentially anonymous people online to their satisfaction only benefits them, and potentially destroys the relationship I have on one or both sides.

I am less interested in discussing or seeking to change anyone’s mind regarding their opinion on the morality as much as I am interested in engaging how people in the church treat gay people.  I believe this is an honest point of unity even for those who vehemently disagree on those points: whether it’s your opinion that the Bible prohibits or permits homosexuality, your opinions should in no way inform your response to gay people.  In either case, the response is love.  Not just tolerance, but love.  Tolerance is a secular value though it feels like wisdom in many cases.  But honestly, who wants to be ‘tolerated’?  I don’t wish to be simply ‘tolerated,’ I wish to be loved.  And this is what we must strive for if we wish to in any way communicate the priorities and mission of our savior.

Since I am bound to fail at striking the correct balance, my m.o. has typically been to favor recklessly over-loving rather than fearfully under-loving, repenting all the while.

From Mary: You tend to avoid making direct doctrinal/opinion statements in the media or through the limited venue of twitter. Based on your personal experience, is there ever a valid context for more concrete theological statements or discussions? Is that something that should only be approached on an individual basis, or is there ever a suitable time for more public discussion?

I have simply tried to avoid giving short answers to questions for which there are no short answers.  And I know there is a real temptation in our culture that we must.  But that is a lie.  Just because someone asks doesn’t mean you have to answer, especially if goes against what feels like wisdom or against your conscience.  So I do think there can be moments to make bold public statements, but one must always do so in a way that is loving and measured, never cavalier. 

And if you’re ever cornered into a complex situation, do what Jesus did: ask a follow-up.  Answer with a question. Make sure you understand what’s being asked and who is asking before you even consider answering.  Anything less is irresponsible and reckless, if not a destructive witness. 

Some short answer questions from Ryan: Do you watch Shark week? What are three fiction books you like? When you are performing, what's your go-to meal after? (Pizza? Buffalo wings?) How many pushups can you do? If you could wake up with one skill at an expert level, what would it be? You're driving from Maine to San Diego, CA. You can take three people. Who do you take? (Can't be your wife/family.) What's one place you'd visit on the way. Cubs or White Sox? (Don't dodge this question Derek.) All that to say, Derek. We love you and we appreciate your voice. And I really don't give a @)#$* if you take this stance or that stance. We hear your music. We know your heart. And that has made all the difference.

No.  Daemon (by Daniel Suarez), Mr. Penumbra’s 24-Hour Bookstore (by Robin Sloan), and Makers (by Cory Doctorow).  Pizza (Dominos thin crust, delivered to hotel room).  Maybe 50.  Car repair.  Alive or dead? (sorry, you didn’t specify and I just talked about answering questions with questions) Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.  Honestly, I don’t follow sports. And, thanks, Ryan.

*** 

Derek's new album, which released just last week, is entitled I Was Wrong, I’m Sorry, & I Love You.  Derek says the themes on the album include battling cynicism (“Everything Will Change”), coming to terms with who God made you to be (“Eye of the Hurricane”), Jesus’ nearness to those who are disenfranchised (“Closer Than You Think”), unity among the divisions of the church (“A Place at Your Table”), the hard work of marriage (“The Vow”), and God’s great love (“Love Part 3”). He says that the album is “easily the most confessional and autobiographical work of my career.” Be sure to check it out. 

Here's a cool acoustic performance video of "The Vow" : 

The thing I’d love to forget about the people I disagree with

I was talking the other day with a person with whom I disagree on just about everything—theology, politics, women in ministry, faith and science, biblical interpretation, doubt, hell, homosexuality, you name it. We were in the awkward process of making peace after some lines had been crossed and feelings hurt, and as we got to know one another a little better in that conversation, we had the chance to share more about our personal journeys and how we came to see the world in the ways that we do. 

As we talked, I realized how much I had wanted to assume this guy was just taking the easy way out, simply toeing the conservative party line and falling in step with what everyone around him believed. But as his story emerged, I learned that he too had wrestled with his beliefs, that they had a profound personal impact on his life and his relationships, and that these beliefs indeed came with a cost. I had assumed he had taken the easiest path when he hadn't. 

It bothers me when people make the same careless assumptions about me. 

Just yesterday I was warned by someone that my support for women in ministry and my inclusion of LGBT voices on the blog represented an effort “to be liked by other people and win the approval of the world.” I shook my head and released a sad laugh. This person had no idea how much hell I’ve taken from people in my evangelical community for writing about my doubts, my questions related to heaven and hell, my views on biblical interpretation and theology, and my support for women in ministry and other marginalized people in the Church.  For believing that the earth is more than 6,000 years old, I’ve been called an idolatrous shrew who hates the Bible and has no business calling herself a Christian. I’ve been denied speaking and writing opportunities and banned from bookstores. I’ve wept as close friends slowly distanced themselves from me and well-meaning church people treated me like a project—someone to pray about, gossip about, and fix.  Institutions that once welcomed me as a daughter have essentially disowned me. It’s nothing compared to what many other people experience in the Church, but it’s painful. And there are indeed many professors who have lost their jobs, pastors who have lost their congregations, and others who have lost their families and friends as a result of their evolving perspectives on faith. It's not a road you take because it's easy. 

I don’t ask these questions and explore these issues because I want to be liked; I ask these questions and explore these issues because I want to believe what’s true. I want to do what’s right. I want my faith to make sense in both my heart and my head and I want to honor Jesus with my life, my words, my actions. You can dismiss my views as unfounded or wrongheaded or unbiblical, but dismissing my journey in arriving at them as simply “taking the easy way out” or “capitulating to culture” makes a lot of unfair assumptions about me and my story. It also underestimates the degree to which various religious communities can themselves function as subcultures, complete with expectations, economies, peer pressure, blacklists, marginalization, and spoken and unspoken rules. 

And yet…

I do the same thing to those with whom I disagree. I assumed this hard-core  complementarian Calvinist was just going along with the majority, just making the easiest decisions,  just bumbling along without considering the views or experiences of other people so that his safe little religious world would remain intact. 

And I was wrong. 

It simplifies things when we can write-off the thoughts and opinions of other people by assuming they’ve taken the easy way out, that they're just trying to be popular and liked. It’s oddly affirming to tell ourselves that we’re the ones living counter-culturally, we’re the ones taking all the risks for the truth, we’re the ones getting persecuted for our right and true beliefs. 

And it’s a bit disconcerting to confront the reality that it’s possible to wrestle with the same God and walk with the same limp and yet reach different conclusions. 

Perhaps it is in the wrestling itself that we can find some common ground. 

*** 

Have you ever made assumptions about how someone arrived at their beliefs only to be proven wrong? Ever get tired of other people assuming you believe what you believe because it’s easy….when it’s not?  How do we move past our own persecution complexes while also acknowledging the very real pain in one another's faith journeys? 

 

'All Things New': A Review of 'Pastrix' by Nadia Bolz-Weber

So my friend Nadia Bolz-Weber and I don’t have a lot in common—at least not on the surface.

Nadia's tall, buff, and typically decked out in a black tank top to show off her tattoos. I’m short, plump, and given to flowey, floral peasant skirts and colorful beaded jewelry. Nadia cusses like a truck driver and tells it like it is. I’ve got a sweet Southern accent and can charm my way through uncomfortable situations just like my mama taught me.  Though we both grew up in conservative church cultures, Nadia spent much of her young adulthood battling addictions while I kept working the good-girl schtick, even when it wasn’t working for me, even when it became shallow and untrue. We’re both in different types of recoveries, you might say.

And yet somehow we keep running into each other and making sense with one another as we travel the speaking circuit. I think it’s got something to do with the way the Kingdom draws unlikely people together in our shared brokenness and hope, our shared need for grace. 

Grace. 

If there was one word to describe Nadia’s new book, Pastrix, it’s grace….though let me assure you, she’s got some saltier ones sprinkled throughout it. (The first words of the memoir are, “’Shit,’ I thought to myself, ‘I’m going to be late to New Testament class.’” So if you have a problem with that type of language, you probably won’t like the book.) 

Pastrix: The Cranky, Beautiful Faith of a Sinner & Saint is an irreverent, funny, and beautifully-written memoir that strips this faith thing down to its bare bones. Weaving the story of Mary Magdalene through her own, Nadia reclaims the term “pastrix” (used derisively by some Christians who refuse to recognize female pastors) to highlight the absurdity and goodness of a God who would choose someone like her to be a “pastor to her people”— alcoholics, depressives, misfits, and cynics. It’s a compelling page-turner that takes the reader from the wobbly chairs of Alcoholics Anonymous to a smoky downtown comedy club to the pews of the Lutheran Church where Nadia pastors called House for All Sinners and Saints. 

But here’s the thing: In this book, Nadia isn’t just a pastor to the textbook down-and-outs; she is a pastor to people like me, people whose struggles may not be the easy-to-identify homelessness or alcoholism, but are instead the sneaky ones like pride, cynicism, discouragement, fear, and perfectionism. At a time when I was dealing with some serious burnout with the Church, when I was angry about all the judgment and division I’ve come to expect from it, Pastrix arrived and dropped a badly-needed Truth bomb right in the middle of all my crap.  

This book reminded me of why I am a Christian.  It stripped everything down to its most essential, its most hopeful.  It reminded me of the goodness and grace of God in ways I struggle to articulate here.  I cried through entire paragraphs, overwhelmed with both conviction and relief. 

Who would have thought a foul-mouthed, tattooed Lutheran preacher could have such an effect on a sweet, Southern evangelical? 

But I think that’s what I like best about this book. It’s not really about Nadia. Where she could have easily relied on her larger-than-life personality to carry the story, Nadia instead gets out of the way…at just the right moments.  She gets out of the way and lets God do God's thing. She leaves you marveling at the beauty and absurdity of grace. 

Grace for Rick, the homeless, pathological liar who attends Nadia’s church. Grace for the faithful Lutheran pastor who mentored Nadia and who, before the policy changed, was once removed from the official clergy roster of the ELCA because he was gay. Grace for the LGBT people in Nadia’s community and grace for the people who would oppose their presence there. Grace for her conservative parents who upon learning that she planned to enter full-time ministry pulled out the family Bible and pointed not to 1 Timothy 2:12 but to Esther 4:14. Grace for herself when she got mad at her congregation for not doing things her way. Grace for one of her most relentless critics—a man who calls himself “Pirate Christian”—to whom she declared, “Chris, I have two things to say to you. One, you are a beautiful child of God. Two, I think that maybe you and I are desperate enough to hear the Gospel that we can even hear it from one another.”  

As Nadia puts it: 

“God’s grace is not defined as God being forgiving to us even though we sin. Grace is when God is a source of wholeness, which makes up for my failings. My failings hurt me and others and even the planet, and God’s grace to me is that my brokenness is not the final word. My selfishness is not the end-all…instead, it’s that God makes beautiful things out of even my own shit. Grace isn’t about God creating humans as flawed beings and then acting all hurt when we inevitably fail and then stepping in like the hero to grant us peace—like saying, ‘Oh, it’s OK, I’ll be a good guy and forgive you.’ It’s God saying, ‘I love the world too much to let your sin define you and be the final word. I am a God who makes all things new.” (51)

I cannot recommend this book enough. If it has even close to the same effect on you as it had on me, it will restore your faith in God, your hope for the Church, and your love for yourself and your neighbor. It will remind you that you don’t  have to be cynical on the one hand or naïve on the other to gather under the Big Tent of grace. You just have to be hungry, thirsty, ready. 

***

Be sure to pick up a copy of Pastrix: The Cranky, Beautiful Faith of a Sinner & Saint. And if you’ve never “met” Nadia, this video is a nice introduction: 

From the Wife of a Queer Man...

Today's post comes to us from a friend and fellow writer who wishes to remain anonymous. The author attends graduate school and works for a non-profit. She has been a member of the RHE community for a number of years now.

I'm so grateful for her openness and wisdom in sharing her story with us. She will be available for interaction in the comments, but asks for patience as she may not be able to respond to all of them. 

 ***

American Christians are in the midst of a conversation about sexuality. This conversation is important (yet heart-wrenching) to gay Christians for obvious reasons. Among straight Christians (with whom I identify), some of us have the conversation for ministerial reasons. Others have it so that we can know how to better love our friends and family members (which in my opinion, is ministerial!). And then there is a small contingent of us who approach this conversation from a unique vantage point--we are in a heterosexual marriage with someone who does not entirely identify as heterosexual. 

Today, I speak into this conversation as the wife of a queer man.

I don't know how to tell our story. If you know us personally, you probably know it already. We're fairly open about it. (We were conflicted about whether or not this should be anonymous. We finally decided that it would be most loving and protective of certain family members who are ashamed of this part of our story to remain anonymous at this point. We hope you understand.) 

My husband and I were friends long before we dated, and I've nearly always known about his attraction to men. It was part of who he was, but never the defining thing. He was always kind, smart, fun-loving, generous, and more. When we were friends, he was wrestling with his sexuality, and we talked about it fairly openly among our close group of friends. He was a Christian and did not feel at peace with his attraction to men. He felt even less at peace when he was in relationships with men. They were hard, hard years for him. 

It's hard to explain briefly, but here's my best attempt: Our friendship led to a tentative romance. And then our romance led to sexual attraction. (This applied on both counts. I was not aching for him when we were friends.) There were bumps and bruises along the way, but eventually we decided that we wanted to swear off all other romantic and sexual interests for life and commit completely to each other. We were married and have enjoyed an amazing marriage since.

(Now, I want to pause to say this loud and clear: My husband is not all queer men. His story, our story, is unique, and we do *not* want it to be used to guilt, shame, or condemn anyone. If you want to share it with a gay friend/son/brother to motivate him to find a wife, you are not loving him well. This story is intended to explain my perspective as the wife of a queer man, not provide any sort of template for healthy sexuality. Far be it from me.) 

Today, my husband has come to peace with the reality that he is a queer man. He is attracted to men and me, so he doesn't consider himself gay, nor do I. Our "heterosexual" marriage has provided him a safe space from which he can advocate for LGBTQ individuals who are both inside and outside the Church. He advocates for them because he identifies as one, even though it doesn't appear that way to many outsiders. I am so proud of him for this, yet I also know how hard it is for him at times.

There's a lot I could say about my experiences, but as his wife, I would like to make a few points for everyone to consider as we continue discussing sexuality in the Church:

1) In any conversation, you should not assume that everyone who "passes" as heterosexual is in fact heterosexual.

I cannot tell you the number of conversations we have sat in on that left us clutching each other's hands in frustration. Those judgmental things you say about LGBTQ people, they hurt us both. Those judgmental things you say about people "trapped in false marriages," they hurt us as well.

2) My marriage is real and healthy and blessed by God.

Please do not mock me or it. My husband and I are not in denial, nor are we "just roommates." I hate that I feel the need to tell you this, but, for what it's worth, we have great sex. Just like most of our married friends, we have periods when we have sex every day, and periods when we have "snack" sex between less frequent "banquet" sex. And then there are the times when sex doesn't come so easily--when we're both too busy, I'm struggling through pregnancy sickness, or following a birth. In short, we are more sexually normal than you think. 

3) I am convinced that there are millions of spouses like me, but most live in secret.

I think all of our stories are different. Some of us are Christians, many are not. Some of us found out about our spouse's sexuality before marriage, some after. Some of our spouses are at peace about their sexuality, many are not. Some of us have been lied to or cheated on, many have not. Some of us have happy marriages, some do not. All of these differences create a world of varied experiences. But we are here, even though we don't often speak up. I personally know many wives in a situation similar to mine, but I only know one other couple who lives openly amongst friends as my husband and I do. I wish more of us could. 

4) The "Side A" and "Side B" dichotomy that is often talked about is not exhaustive of the experiences of gay Christians.

These sides can even encourage a false dichotomy in our conversations. I don't want to imply that everyone has other options, because that would be false. But the story I've lived and the stories I know don't fit into "Side A" or "Side B," and it is somewhat frustrating to feel as if our stories not real, recognized, or legitimate. 

5) My husband and I are both convinced, largely because of our experience, that sexuality is more flexible than many people are admitting right now.

We completely understand why there is such vehement rhetoric that people can't change. We do not believe in or support gay conversion therapy. But we have lived a story of flexible sexuality. He was sure he was a 6 on the Kinsey scale before he fell in love with me. But fall in love he did, and it changed him. This observation feels like a betrayal to many people we love, so I don't know what to do with it. But it's the reality of our stories. 

But those observations aside, when you click away from this post, what I want you to hear loudest from me is this: My husband and I are both blessed by our marriage; it is not a burden. I have in no way married a second-rate man, and he has in no way settled for second-rate sex. Christian marriage should be a closing off of oneself to all sexual options save one, and in embracing that reality we have experienced shalom. 

 ***

I'm so grateful for this story. I'm starting to wonder if, because sexuality has become so politicized and such an unfortunate theological line-in-the-sand, we tend to brush aside stories that don't fit our preferred paradigm for fear they will provide "ammunition" to the other side. In so doing, I wonder if we've veered too far from the reality that human sexuality is indeed very complex. It's so tempting to take one person's story and use it to make a point while simultaneously dismissing another person's story because it doesn't line up with my assumptions. This happens on both "sides" (or, perhaps more accurately ALL sides), and I'm not sure how to stop it. What do you think? How do you respond to this story and how can we make more space for people whose sexuality doesn't fit in a box?

[See also: "On Mixed Orientation Marriages: Four Stories"] 

Sunday Superlatives 9/8/13

IRL…

I went to the optometrist only to learn my critics have been right all along: 

Around the blogosphere…

Best Prayer:
Kimberly Knight with “Praying for Peace with Pope Francis”

“Prince of peace, unfurl our clenched fists that our hands may reach for our neighbors with tender herbs of healing.”

Best Interview: 
Krista Tippett interviews Nadia Bolz-Weber for “On Being”

Best Conversation-Starter: (really looking forward to this series!) 
Geoff Holsclaw at Missio Alliance with “The Scandal of the Evangelical Memory” 

“In essence, I hope to encourage all those in the ‘messy middle’ of evangelicalism by letting them know they are the true heirs of evangelicalism, but they don’t know this because their memory has been replaced.  In essence, we don’t remember who we really are and until we do, we will keep living in and out of dreams and nightmares.”

Best List:
The 16 Most Annoying Things People of ‘House Hunters’ Say

Best Summary:
Scot McKnight with “A Game-Changer in the Genesis 1-2 Debates"

Best Use of the Phrase ‘Slap Bang’
Osheta Moore with “Slap-Bang tastic Back to School”

“They’re printable (read: you can’t mess this baby up if your life depended on it). They’re chalkboard themed.  They’re cute.  They’re free! Perfect to redeem my awesomeness fail…”

[This will make more sense if you've read 'A Year of Biblical Womanhood'.]

Best Series: 
Laura Turner’s series on growing up evangelical 

Best Reminder: 
Natalie Trust with "Christians, Divorce, and Marriage: On Being Excluded from Conversations"

“My journey led me to places of abandonment, betrayal, humiliation, and heartache. But I am still here, still standing, willing to share what I know and be honest about what I don’t know. I have more than just the pain to talk about; I carry more than just “baggage” from the past. I bear scars, but I have found beauty in them, and I’d like to share about that.”

Best Advocate: 
Hugh McNally at Christians for Biblical Equality with “Tertullian’s Ghost"

“Biblical equality is not a secular power-grab by women trying to reinterpret the Bible for their own benefit. Biblical equality is about the freedom of the gospel, which has for too long been overshadowed by the patriarchal worldviews of great men like Tertullian and Calvin. It is the power of the Holy Spirit freeing all people to use their gifts for service in God’s kingdom. If not for the ministry of a woman, I would not have surrendered my life to Christ sixty-five years ago. How many people could the church reach if it supported the full participation of women! I look forward to the day when women and men will be fully empowered to serve God together as partners in their homes, churches, and society, using the gifts God has given them."

Best Video: 
Jay Smooth with “How to Tell People They Sound Racist” 
[This is from 2008, but Bruce Reyes-Chow shared it at the Lion & Lamb festival last weekend and I thought it was helpful]

Wisest: 
Margaret Manning with “A New Legalism”

“Perhaps humans find it easier to love legalities because it is easier than loving people. People are inconsistent and imperfect, and are more easily controlled and confined by rules. Jesus, in his life and ministry, frequently shattered these easy definitions put in place by those legalists in his day. He upended expectations and eluded the tightly drawn categories of those who sought to control him. He often kept company with those deemed unrighteous—prostitutes, tax collectors, and others called sinners—and he earned the label of “glutton and a drunkard” by those whose laws drew clear boundaries around appropriate company. For those who had clear rules about the Messiah of Israel, Jesus eschewed political power and stood silently before those who would eventually order his crucifixion. And for those who wanted a “rebel” Jesus, wholly antinomian and defying every convention, he answered by challenging his followers towards a righteousness that exceeded that of the most religious-of-the-religious in his day. In his own words he told those who would follow him that he did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.”

Funniest (language warning) 
The Bloggess with “15 Things You Absolutely Must Know About Social Media orYour Face Will Melt Off and Get Eaten By Goats” 

“SEO is very important.  It stands for Screw Everyone Over.  Or something.  I don’t actually know, but apparently it’s something you should be paying people for.  Or not.  I prefer not.”

Simplest:
Alyssa Bacon-Liu with “I’m Listening” 

“Here's what we can do: I'll commit to listening and then you can commit to listening and then I really do think there will be so much beautiful grace flowing around that we won't even know what to do with ourselves besides just say I'm listening and listen some more.”

Most Provocative: 
Peter Chin with “Shelve Your Passions”

“The reason I am engaged with these aspects of faith is not because I have always felt a gravitational pull to these ideas, but because this is what God has given me to do. I speak about suffering not because I consider myself an astute theologian – I actually believe the opposite.  I talk about suffering because my family endured it, and continues to.  It’s not a passion of mine in that sense.  And when this position as interim pastor of Peace Fellowship came up, I was very reluctant to accept it because I never saw myself as “that” kind of pastor, and doubted that I had the skills and passion to do well in such a position.  These callings that God has laid before me were altogether unexpected. And so it wouldn’t be truthful for me to simply say, “I am passionate about racial reconciliation and comforting the suffering.” Instead, I think it is more appropriate to say that I have learned to be passionate about whatever God puts in front of me.  Because where I find myself now is more the result of God’s plans and purposes, rather than my own.”

Most Moving: 
Stephen at Sacred Tension with “The Good Father: Of God, Doubt, and Gay Relationships”

“The only reason I am alive is because, three years ago in a tiny mountain Catholic parish, I started to learn how to trust, and to cling to the Cross. I learned to trust that God is bigger than my shortcomings, my questions, my capacity for rightness and wrongness. I started to trust that God has tempered justice with mercy, and that mercy covers me even when my best attempts fail in both action and understanding.”

Most Relatable: 
Rachel Marie Stone with “Kicking the Outrage Habit in the Blogosphere”

"If you find yourself addicted to Internet outrage–even as an observer–it might be good to ask what, exactly, you’re wishing you could shine some light on. And whatever that may be, I do hope you find it via a more peaceful path."

Most Practical:
Kathy Escobar with “Educate, Advocate, Agitate” 

“anytime the status quo is challenged, there’s sure to be trouble.  we will be known as rebellious, trouble-makers, loudmouths,unladylike, “those liberal feminists”, you name it.  i’ve come to take it as a compliment. change comes at a cost. there’s no way around it. the forces against women in this world (not just the church) are strong; there’s a horrid bent against women in almost every culture and we won’t get to new places by being quiet and hoping and praying the systems will change.  the only way to something new is to stir the pot, subvert the system, risk our pride, and agitate the status quo through educating, advocating, and stepping into our passions and callings.  for those of us who are people-pleasers, that’s the hardest part.  we will have to live with disapproval, but it’s worth it.”

Best of Social Media…

Anne Lamott on preparing for a book release

If we answer the question of "what is God like" with anything other than Jesus of Nazareth, we end with something less than the gospel.

— Jonathan Martin (@renovatuspastor) September 6, 2013

Dear woman on your cell at the gym: it's only been 10 minutes and I know your #enneagram number.

— Courtney Perry (@CoPerryPhoto) September 7, 2013

hey. just maybe, the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church is a prism. it's hard, but I really don't think we should all look the same.

— Antonia (@antoniaterrazas) September 5, 2013

From the Road…

I had a wonderful time at the Lion & Lamb Festival in Ft. Wayne, Indiana last week, where I got to hang out with some very cool writers, artists, and ministers including Bruce Reyes Chow, Andrew Peterson, Amy Cox, Richard Kentopp,  Erica Granados, Robb McCoy, Jill Howard, and Corey Howard. 

Bruce spoke about his new book, But I Don’t See You as Asian, and opened up a really helpful, practical conversation about race from which I learned a ton. I’d recommend checking the book out. 

And I picked up this adorable little monkey (and a gorgeous yellow necklace) at the Yobel Market booth. Yobel Market sells all sorts of fairly-traded, sustainably-created wares from around the world to help empower people who have been exploited, displaced and impoverished. If you want a monkey for yourself, check them out! 

This week’s travels…

On Thursday and Friday, I’m headed to Clemson, South Carolina to hang out with students from Clemson University and the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship of South Carolina for their Fall Event, “Growing Up With Your Faith.” I’ll be speaking on Thursday night, Friday afternoon, and Friday night. The events are open to the public, so stop by and say hello. Learn more here.

***

So, what caught your eye online this week? What’s happening on your blog? 

 

‘More Than Serving Tea’: A Conversation with Kathy Khang and Nikki Toyama-Szeto

As happens with many good books, I stumbled upon More Than Serving Tea by accident, after I read an interview with one of its authors, Nikki Toyama-Szeto, at Intervarsity’s “The Well” blog. In the interview, Nikki spoke about power and privilege in ways I’d never really heard before, ways that were both practical and challenging.  I followed the link to her book, More Than Serving Tea, which she co-wrote with several other Asian American women, including Kathy Khang, who had also written a post for “The Well” about ambition entitled “The Dirty ‘A’ Word” which had me standing on my desk chair, waving my hanky, and shouting ‘amen’! 

Rarely do Christian women speak so candidly and practically about things like ambition, power, privilege, and race. So of course my next thought was, I have to get these ladies on the blog! Today I’m grateful to introduce you to these extraordinary women of valor and to their excellent book, More Than Serving Tea. 

Enjoy! 

***

Rachel: Nikki, tell us a little about your new role at International Justice Mission. What will you be doing? 

Nikki: I’m the Sr. Director of Biblical Justice Integration and Mobilization.  This means I help oversee the work of the IJM Institute—which is where our group grapples with the issues raised by our work in the field, and asks the questions, “How does our faith inform our response?”  I also oversee the world of our global prayer mobilization.  Some people believe that power is found in the size of your army, or in the depth of your wallet.  But I believe that the world and history are changed by praying grannies—the most powerful beings in the universe.  So we work with an extraordinary network of intercessors around the world who do the work of justice through prayer.

Nikki

Rachel: Kathy, tell us about your role at InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. What do you do as the director of regional multiethnic ministries?  

Kathy: I am essentially the set of eyes that looks at student and staff leadership development and programming and staff supervision through the lens of multiethnicity so that InterVarsity's ministry more effectively reaches out to the diverse student populations on campuses across Illinois and Indiana. I also serve on InterVarsity's national Asian American Ministries Leadership Team.

Kathy  

Rachel: In More Than Serving Tea you two join four other Asian American women explore how family expectations and cultural stereotypes often assume that Asian American women can only fill rigidly defined roles. Can you share a little of how you have experienced that in your life? What's the 'good news' for Asian American women who feel frustrated or burdened by these expectations?  

Nikki: Most of my interactions with cultural stereotypes have assumed that because I’m an Asian woman, I could be either a dragon lady, a newscaster, or a demure sexualized object. Those are the portrayals of AA women.  Today we have more diverse pictures.  But it’s the small comments of, “your English is so good” and “where are you from?” that communicate that you’re an outsider or that you don’t belong.   I was born in Chicago and I’m fourth-generation American, but still I will receive these  questions that my friend, a recent immigrant from Poland, never will receive.

I think AA women need to acknowledge that we live in a world that makes quick judgments about who you are based on what you look like and based on others past experiences.  It was hard to acknowledge for me—but one element of “good news” about that is Asian woman have some opportunities because they can turn the stereotypes on their heads.

Dealing with the expectations of others is common to all folks.  But perhaps there is an extra burden, a certain kind of expectation, that AA women experience.  Women who don’t follow the paths laid out for them can be seen as being “un-asian”.  I’ve heard so many women describe themselves as, “I’m not a typical Asian woman…”  Instead, I wish people would say, “I am a typical Asian woman—we just come in many shapes, sizes, and volumes.”

Kathy: I grew up with one younger sister. There were no sons for my parents to rely on in their old age, to provide for their retirement, and then to care for them; that was the message I heard directly and indirectly from family and the extended "aunties" and "uncles" who were not blood relatives but connected by ethnic heritage, culture, and language. I was told that I would be a worthy daughter by playing the role of firstborn son. But then the messages started to include complex addendum. I could be successful academically and then professionally and bring honor to my family, but I also needed to temper those goals because I needed to be fit to be married, which meant I couldn't be too successful and forget that my role would also include daughter-in-law. 

Because I married a second generation Korean-American, I married deeper into the culture. My worth then came from not only being a good daughter but a good daughter-in-law - who bear sons, cares for my children and releases my husband from domestic duties so that he could provide financially for the family (which includes his parents). My husband and I struggled to honor the expectations of our parents but still honor one another in our marriage.

The good news is that there is a deep gift in that ability to consider other's needs and expectations while still being able to clearly identify your own personal ambitions and values. There is a skill and diplomacy to know how to put aside the cultural expectations and still live out Christ's love and generosity much like the father in the story of the prodigal son - both sons and the father knew the cultural rules, but when it came down to it, the father, who had much to lose, put aside those cultural burdens in order to love lavishly.

There is also the example of Queen Esther who plays the game, passes as a Persian queen and hides her Jewishness. Her success and survival in the palace depends on living by the cultural rules and roles; she is at the mercy of the king. But she presses into the situation and takes advantage of her role as hostess to gain an audience and build trust. What I have often first experienced as burdens and frustrations are truly opportunities to allow God to redeem the brokenness in culture.

Rachel: Kathy, you wrote a chapter on sexuality in More Than Serving Tea in which you address the powerful effects of shame on Christian women. What are some truths that can replace the lies women tell about themselves? 

Kathy: As an Asian American woman who grew up in a shame-based culture, I have an intimate relationship with shame. Shame is different than experiencing guilt, feeling bad that you got caught doing something wrong. I've read that shame in its most toxic form is believing that you are inherently wrong, broken, a mistake, and unredeemable. That in itself is a lie. I believe that to some degree it is a good thing that we experience shame, much like Adam and Eve experienced shame when they realized they were buck naked and tried to cover themselves with leaves. It can remind us that we are not doing, being what God intended for us to be and do.

The lie is that shame of our big mistake is all that is left, and that is not what scripture tells us. God did not leave Adam and Eve covered in leaves. Peter's story doesn't end with him denying Christ three times. Tamar, Rahab, Ruth, and Mary in name don't belong in Jesus' family tree because they are women with some culturally suspect backgrounds. There is nothing that keeps us from God because God pursues us and is with us, even when we don't think it "feels" like He is. And from where we sit, we can't imagine the full picture. 

Rachel, Nikki: I love what you said in your recent interview with "The Well" about stewardship of power. Tell us a little about the danger of unacknowledged power and privilege. How can we become more aware of our own power, and how can we steward it in ways that bring about justice, shalom, and reconciliation? 

Nikki: Different people have power.  And people have different levels of comfort with the power that they have.  But I think some of the most dangerous folks are the ones who have power but don’t think that they have it—they play the “but there’s nothing I can do” card.  I think some of the ways we can be more aware of our power is to recognize some of the privileges we have, privileges we take for granted and assume everyone has: our education level, our able-bodiedness level, our sexual orientation, the passport we have, etc. Are there ways that people in power carry our views?  

How to use that to bring about justice, shalom and reconciliation is varied.  I think for me, I try to think about the justice issues that are optional for me—and then press myself to “opt-in.”  For me, it’s a luxury to be able to say, “I’m not going to care about that today.”  For example, I would love to be able to not have my race or gender affect my interactions for one day—to be able to rest from that.  But that’s not optional for me—and I long for white sojourners who will say,  “I’m going to choose to not let that be optional for me either.”

Rachel: Nikki, in the interview with "The Well" you also talk about how, in some cases, the most faithful response to power is to actually step in and claim it. Do you think that’s a hard thing for Christian women in particular to do sometimes? What advice would you give women who feel disempowered in the Church?

Nikki: I do think that it can be challenging for women, Christian women, to step up and claim power.  There are the images of Christian women (meek and mild) that put a theological layer on top.  But for women, I think they can advocate on behalf of other women.  Champion those other women around you, who you think could and should step up.  I do think our churches benefit from active engagement of all its members.  

For women who feel disempowered in the Church, that’s a big question.  One of the things that gives me hope is thinking of Rosa Parks—and just how immovable the currents systems must have seemed to her, when she decided to sit on the bus.   It can be easy to just dis-engage, to give up.  Ask God, where are you in this situation? And what is your invitation to me?  I’m not advocating that everyone should step in and grab power—that’s the way of the world.  But what I do want to free us from us from is assumptions about Christian stewardship of power.  Sometimes God does call us to step up.  Even if your culture, your gender roles, others expectations are speaking differently.  And I would say particularly those who’ve been on the margins, in your church, in your community—you have a perspective that is really important for the life and health of our Christian communities.  Our faiths will be anemic, pithy, and shallow if some of these voices continue to stay quiet.  I think it takes a truly anointed and strong leader to make space for dissonant voices.

Kathy, in your article at "The Well,"  you wrote about how 'ambition' is treated as a dirty word among Christian women. Why do you think that is? 

Kathy: I'm not sure we Christians are comfortable with the idea of ambition because, as I wrote in the piece in The Well, it is often mistaken as the opposite of humility. Christians value humility so we can talk about leadership so long as we remind one another that we are talking about "servant leadership". Instead of creating a new culture around the word "ambition" that better reflects our Christian worldview, we add "Christian" words assuming that will reclaim what the secular world has tainted. 

I've found as a Christian woman it is often better & safer to lead the conversation by talking about my dreams and hopes because having ambitions often assumes a secular worldview where promotions, opportunities, and recognition is about money, success, and ego. We've almost assumed ambition is masculine, which assumes Christian men get a pass and Christian women shouldn't be ambitious if they want to be feminine. And this is where it gets dicier because at the core we Christians have a tough time talking about gender - the differences, similarities, and stereotypes. The Church has its own version of "boys will be boys" and "sugar and spice and everything nice" where men can be servant leaders but women lead by serving. 

Beyond semantics, it is how so many of my Christian friends grew up - dichotomizing our spiritual and occupational lives. It's a little crazy if you ask me. 

Rachel: Kathy, What can Christian women do to recognize and celebrate their ambitions rather than feel guilty about them? 

Kathy: We need to be one another's biggest fans and cheerleaders regardless of the arena in which our ambitions - our God-given gifts we are to steward well and faithfully - play out. We need to be the ones destroying any sense of competition or judgment between socially-constructed divisions amongst women. Single, married, divorced, young, old, SAHM, working outside of the home with kids - we should be leveraging the gift of a multigenerational Church and the examples we see in scripture to see what we are doing aligns with what women have been doing all through history.

I'd also love to see more churches do away with the awkward Mother's Day Sunday sermons and Children's programs and celebrate women more consistently through the year. I had ambitions before I got married and certainly before I had children. 

On a very practical level, celebrate your friends' ambitions in tangible ways. Write a note or send a card congratulating someone on a new job or with a word of encouragement. Share prayer requests with one another and keep track of how God answers those prayers. Ask questions and find out what the women around you are achieving, creating, and leading. And help one another achieve those ambitions. When I was writing More Than Serving Tea I confided in a few friends who helped my husband juggle the preschool and elementary school schedules so that I could get away to write, edit, and promote the book. Christian women and men made that possible.

And to celebrate and recognize personal ambitions, think of meaningful ways that resonate with you personally. I keep a private blog full of incomplete posts. And when More Than Serving Tea went to contract I gave half of the advance check to my mother and then went out to buy myself a pair of pearl earrings as a symbol of celebration.

Rachel: Christians love to talk about how faith is changing in the U.S. and we often point to statistics that paint a gloomy picture of church attendance and religious involvement. We also have a bad habit of ignoring the continued growth of Christianity among immigrant and ethnic minority communities in the U.S. What's something you wish more people knew about Asian American Christians? What are some common mistakes we make in discussing multiethnic Christianity?

Nikki: I wish that people knew that Asian American Christianity is not a monolith—but a diverse group of creative, and committed followers of Christ. Asian American churches come in many shapes and sizes, and span the theological spectrum.  They might be some of the best places to go to learn about powerful prayer, costly discipleship, death to self, life in community.  I think there are lots of different values that God holds dear that are being expressed in the life of our Asian American churches.  Asian American Christians are usually bi-cultural—we have to be in order to function in both our families, as well as in broader American society.  And I think that’s something that the American church can receive from the Asian American church.

Kathy: I would say that even in your question, Rachel, you make a common mistake. I was late to the emergent/emerging church conversations because Christians who were loving the talk about how faith is and continues to change in the U.S. were and continue to be predominantly White. "We" can mean different groups of people in different contexts, and honestly I often have to point out that the "we" too often excludes non-White voices at the table. Those gloomy statistics are gloomy if you are a White church in a White-lead religious movement. Diversity and multiethnicity is then, at its worst, seen as a threat to the "way it was", a gilded memory of a Christian and secular history that has been documented and repeated through White, dominant culture's lens and messengers. If "we" want to discuss multiethnicity, we all need to know what our cultural lenses are. That is where the White Church may have some good work ahead in understanding its own culture, preferences, and strengths as well as differences within the White, dominant cultural experience. Phew!

Multiethnicity in Christianity cannot be limited to conversations about race in Black and White terms and history or how we are going to change up musical worship to include some Gospel music and a song sung in Spanish. We cannot assume token gestures and good intentions mean churches have "arrived", and being together in the same space doesn't mean being on the same page. Proximity isn't unity. 

The Asian American Christian church is extremely diverse, vibrant, multigenerational, and cutting edge with all the struggles and concerns of the historically White Church - evangelical and mainline. I wish more people understood that "Asian American" includes Thai, Hmong, Laotian, Vietnamese, Pilipino, Pakistani, Indian, and Pacific Islander as well as Chinese, Japanese and Korean. Our cultures are not all the same. There are nuances to shared values as well as distinct differences, and that plays out in the beautiful, diverse expressions of our faith and faith practices. 

And that goes back to the discussions about multiethnicity. There is a cost for a hyphenated American like me to help what once was a White church become multiethnic. I have to leave my immigrant church, a concern for first generation congregations who saw and still see churches as a both a strategy and physical space to connect generations divided by language, education, power, and levels of assimilation through faith. I'd love to see more conversations about the cost of asking English-speaking second generation Asian Americans to leave their comfortable, homogenous Asian American churches without offering up a similar call to the White church. (Should I duck now?)

Rachel: No ducking necessary! Thank you both so much for your time. This was encouraging and enlightening. 

***

Be sure to check out Nikki’s interview with The Well and Kathy’s interview with The Well and of course More Than Serving Tea. You can learn more about International Justice Mission here and Intervarsity Christian Fellowship here. 

 

When it’s too big (a reflection on Syria)

When you’ve tried your best to educate yourself,

When the more you learn the less clear it all becomes,

When images of disfigured children creep into your dreams,

When you watch as things get politicized and theologized and
shoved into 140 characters,

When you want to love your enemies but don’t know how,

When you’ve sent money for the refugees but feel foolish for
the smallness of your efforts,

When you'd like to think you would open your doors to them, but aren't really sure you would, 

When you catch yourself worrying about what to wear, what movie to see, 

When you doubt yourself, doubt your government, doubt your
pastor, doubt God,

When you hate how the news has made graphics and theme music,  

When you realize that your opinion will do nothing to change
the matter,

When your utter helplessness follows you around like a dark
presence and laughs at all the empty things you say,

When it’s just too big….

All that’s left is prayer and fasting.

Lord, have mercy.

Christ, have mercy.

Lord, have mercy.

All that’s left are tears and ash.

Lord, have mercy.

Christ, have mercy.

Lord, have mercy.

All that’s left is to acknowledge your smallness.

Lord, have mercy.

Christ, have mercy.

Lord, have mercy.

All that’s left is to sit in quiet with the world and beg
for peace and wisdom and clear paths.

Lord, have mercy.

Christ, have mercy.

Lord, have mercy.

It doesn’t matter whether it’s enough because it’s all that’s
left to do.

So be faithful, and do it. 

Be helpless for a while.

Be at God's mercy and pray.  

***

This is what I've been telling myself lately because I feel so totally baffled and helpless by the situation in
Syria. Pope Francis has called for a day of fasting and prayer for
peace in Syria, in the entire Mideast region, and throughout the whole world to
be held on Saturday, September 7th, and I’m inclined to join...mainly because I have no idea what else to do. 

Also, while I cannot believe that Christ is in sarin
gas or airstrikes, I believe Christ is in the stranger, the foreigner, the
poor, the sick, and the hungry, so consider praying especially for Syria’s
refugees and supporting the people and organizations caring for them. (See The
UN Refugee Agency, World Vision, UNICEF, Doctors Without Borders, and Samaritan’s
Purse.)

Does anyone have appropriate prayers to share?