Denver Carlos Snuffer Jr.'s Blog, page 15

Inquiry About Talks

I received an
inquiry from someone who asked:
I've been reading your 40 Years talks.
I came across a post on a blog that states: 




"Regarding this talk and all
of them really. Before they are given, I will clear the room, spiritually, then
shield it and have Warrior Angels stand guard. It is all done in praise, honor
and to the glory of our God, the Eternal Father with proper priesthood. … A
good friend was told to come also by the Lord. She was told to produce a huge
ball of energy above your heads. It had to be rotated at the right frequency,
color and rate. That is to bring those attending up in their own frequency
(spirit) so they could have clear heads and understand what he was saying at a
higher level. If your frequency or light is at a low level the understanding
isn't there. If you ‘vibrate’ at a higher frequency, as do beings of light,
then you can understand at that level. There were several that left at the
first brake and a bunch more at the second. I know that some had obligations.
But some of these were those in severe judgment. We pray that they won't be
able to take the light. Sometimes those in that much judgment will flee the
light like cockroaches and some did. That made it even better for those there.
As darkness leaves the light gets brighter." 



Are these things true? Do you
concur with the statements, specifically, the room shielding, Warrior Angels
and the ball of energy?
______________________________________



I do not belong
to or read other blogs. Therefore, I do not know all of what is discussed or
by whom. But I would like to be clear. Since I have given five talks (in the
latest series) totaling over twelve hours, and I have thirteen books in print to date, what I believe or concur with should be apparent from what I have published. I have
a blog that I have written for years about the gospel. I teach openly and publicly
what I believe. I have no spokesmen or agents who speak for me in any place, or
with any right to attribute more or less to what I have written, taught, said
and declared openly. If you want to know what I would like for others to
understand about the gospel, then read or listen to what I have written or said. I cannot be
responsible for any other statement, discussion, claim, conclusion or
declaration other than those I make directly, publicly and openly.



There are
people or friends with whom I have private discussions about a number of topics, i.e the idea of multiple mortalities (not mentioned in the inquiry above
but mentioned in a number of emails and blog comments). This is the
position I have taken on that topic - ALWAYS: What possible good can it do you to know
about your pre-earth record. The challenge in front of us all has “sufficient
evil unto the day thereof” without, like the Indigo Girls, to “try and
get it right” for some other life. The challenge is underway. Fight now. Win in
this present estate and focus on what it takes to get out of here with honor.
Nothing else matters. Isn’t this life challenge enough for you? You have time
to contemplate what you might have done in some other place, time, circumstance
or experience? If the topic were important enough that it should influence you
today, don’t you think the scriptures would make the question plain enough so
the doctrine is out in the open? If it is veiled, even if it were true, then it
is left obscure for a reason.




When Christ
asked His disciples, “Who do men say that I am?” The responses varied from
Jeremiah to Elijah, to John the Baptist. The Lord never responded to these
speculations. Instead, Christ refocused the question and asked, “But who do you
say that I am?” That second question mattered. To it, the declaration, made by
revelation from heaven announced, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God.”
To this the Lord responded, confirming it not only true but to have been given
by revelation from heaven. And “upon this rock” of living revelation from the Father,
Christ said “I will build my church.” That church is not made with hands and
does not need a building. It needs only a foundation in revelation, and the
buildings will all be temples in which Christ and the Father will come to
dwell. They will “take up their abode” within such temples.



I can point
you in the right direction. I can testify to what is true. But do not expect me
to lead you there. I am unworthy to do so. There is only one Lord who can save
men. I testify of Him and I work to establish understanding of Him. The fact I
am the subject of discussion disappoints me. Any moment spent thinking about me
or talking about me is a moment you might have spent thinking and talking about
the Lord.
If you want
to know what I believe, then listen to what I have said. Read what I have
written. I believe in Christ and His mission to save some few souls in the
last days. This will be a big enough challenge that there is no time to
refocus the discussion away from Him, His prophecies and how great things He
will yet do with those who will follow Him.  

Orem Transcript - Priesthood

The transcript from the Orem talk on Priesthood is up. Because the subject required more time than could be taken, the transcript has been edited and enlarged.

First Rung

I got this question handed to me on Saturday: "what is the first rung on Jacob's Ladder?"



It is to have your calling and election made sure through the Holy Spirit of Promise. That is the beginning.

Details for Saturday

The building is a secured building with a business occupying it. It will be locked until approximately 9:00 a.m. The entrance is on the East, but you must park in the West lot, as the East lot is reserved for employees.



I got an inquiry about seating numbers. There should be approximately 400 seats, which is expected to be more than enough for all who come.

Fenway

After a 95 year hiatus, the winning World Series game happened last night. At Fenway Park.



Sure hope they re-sign Jacoby.



Loved that Drew hit that home run. He was due.



Papi got walked to TIE the WS record for walks in a game (a milestone in pitching cowardice).



What a Series.  Just when you think you've seen it all you get an outcome deciding obstruction call in one game followed by a pick-off walk-off in the next.



Molina missed that tag at the plate. Didn't matter, though.



A BALK in the WS?!?! Wow, now I gotta cut my daughter slack.



Parade today in Boston.

November 2 Talk, and another review

The next talk will be Saturday, November 2 at 9:30 a.m.



Canyon Park Technology Center - J Auditorium - Map

1401 North Research Way

Orem, UT  84097



Also, here is another review of Passing the Heavenly Gift. Enjoy.

Part 2 of Passing Up The Heavenly Gift

Here is a second installment of a reviewer's criticism of PTHG.



Enjoy.



[The contrast between his attributions to me and the text I wrote is remarkable.]



The very odd thing about those who are busy damning the book is that:

1. My book is a defense of faith in the restoration. I'm actually on the "same team" (so to speak) as those who hate the book.

2. Testimonies have been strengthened, people have returned to activity, and bitter feelings have been soothed by those for whom it was written.



I bear my critics no animosity. They are doing and saying what they honestly believe to be worthwhile when they say and write what they do. There was a time when I would have joined them in that view.



Mormonism is a faith which simply cannot be confined to a single tightly controlled confession of faith, because it was always designed to "comprehend all truth." Think about that for just a moment. If it encompasses all truth, then it is vast in scope. Endless, really. So, at any given moment, Mormons will include those who are beginning to study the faith, those who have brought a background in Buddhism, those who have a foundation in science, or any number of other pre-conversion talents, capacities and preferences. These new believers will use those backgrounds to search into the Gospel.



Those varieties of talents were always intended to be a blessing, even a strength, to the restoration. Any requirement for absolute uniformity will not permit those who have vastly different capacities to share in faith, even though they are honest, believing and acceptable to God.



Coming into the "uniformity of faith" is an ideal that will require a lot of work, a lot of communication and sharing, and a process that allows people of honest intentions and good faith to speak openly across diverse views. Remarkably, many of those who have been the object of official church ire are more open and willing to discuss faith issues than are those who are extremely active, or employed by the church.



I am a Mormon. I've done a series of posts on that. I remain a Mormon, though now a cast-away saint. I'm fine with my status. Nothing has changed in my soul as a result of the current situation. God and I still have a relationship which continues uninterrupted by the excitement which PtHG has caused.



Some day Gregory Smith will drop his defensiveness and become capable of an open and friendly discussion, and we will be friends. This is because we both have far more in common that we do in opposition:

-He and I accept Joseph Smith as a prophet of God.

-He and I both accept the Book of Mormon as scripture.

-He and I both believe in the revelations which came through Joseph Smith.

-He and I are both trying to live our lives in harmony with our faith.

These are vastly more important than our differences about what happened following Joseph's death.



These important beliefs we share between us make him my brother. Therefore, I regard his misunderstanding of the book and his attribution of motives which I simply do not possess as only his opening position. It will not be his final position. He will be led to a better conclusion about me in years to come. His motives arise from defending what he honestly believes to be threatened by what I wrote. This is good, even commendable. His mistake is to read with such alarm and fear that he turns a difference in understanding into an attack on me and my motives. With time and patience he will figure those things out much better than he does at present. Given the Lord's patience with me, can I give Gregory Smith any less patience?



Read charitably his review. That is how I have taken it. At present I am too busy to go through and respond point-by-point to his rant. If I find the time, I may respond to his review.



If Gregory Smith reads this (or someone knows him) I'd like to invite him to come to the talk I will be giving on November 2nd in Orem at 9:30 a.m. The address and directions will be posted soon.

Understanding How To Read PTHG

If you are going to read PtHG, then read the words in the text rather than overlaying your own fears and conclusions. Your reaction to the book is not indicative of what I wrote.



There is very little of me in the book. Nor does the book represent all of what I think or know about the topics covered. It is an overview, not a comprehensive treatment.



The book assumes it is competing with another tradition taught to us by the church, and only suggests there may be another way to view events. It does not claim to be right. That is left to the reader to decide. In many specific topics the material reaches a "tie" and leaves it to the reader to choose the result.



Careful readers have claimed I am "wishy-washy" because I refrain from making conclusions. Others who read carelessly have instead damned me for their own conclusions, using "Snuffer claims" or "Snuffer views" and "Snuffer wrongly assumes" to substitute their internal reactions for what I have written.



It is not until Chapter 15 that I move from recounting what scripture and church leaders wrote or said to assume the proposed new view is true. That chapter opens with this explanation: "For purposes of this chapter, I am going to assume the church never obtained the fullness offered by the Lord in Nauvoo." Then I give all the reasons why I would choose to believe, and remain faithful to the church. That is the point at which my voice emerges into the narrative. It comes to quiet alarm, reassure belief and to muster support for the church.



Eventually the furor will calm down and the book will have a dispassionate reading. When we finally get there, people will wonder why the reactions were so overwrought. I hope the many things now written by the pseudo-defenders of Mormonism remain available, so they can inform future saints on how to react with less fear toward unwelcome ideas.



The purpose of Passing the Heavenly Gift it to awaken all of us to how delicate a proposition it is to live faithfully. Perhaps the most offensive character treatment is given to Heber J. Grant. The offense is taken from his own hand, recorded in his own diary, preserving his own mother's criticism of him. But those are his words and the words of his mother. I defend him and praise his candor and honest introspection. My voice praises the man; his condemns. The distinction between these two voices is altogether lost on at least one of the most harshest reviewers of PtHG. His quarrel is not with me. It is with others.



I would suggest that it is better to take a look at the source material and consider that, and leave me out of the equation.



The Nauvoo Temple was not complete. Ever. Nor did they perform any endowment in a completed structure. When they left Nauvoo after shutting down the rites, they prayed to be allowed to complete the Temple so they might be able to dedicate it. The next day the attic caught fire and the area where the endowment had been performed was badly damaged. While they re-covered the roof, the attic was not repaired. Finally they abandoned work and "considered it complete enough to dedicate." These events are chronicled and the sources quoted. In light of Section 124, those events matter. I was hoping to provoke some effort to examine those facts. Instead all I see are personal attacks directed at me borne out of ignorance and insecurity. Your insecurities do not belong to me. When you react to the book by attacking me, you expose your own doubts.



We should confidently state the case for Mormonism. I've done that in PtHG, even with historical lacunas in our story lines. If a reviewer wants to react to the events, then it would be a better service to everybody, myself included, to fill in the missing connections.

Daymon Smith's Cultural History of the Book of Mormon

I have written reviews of the first three
volumes of Daymon Smith’s planned five volume set titled “A Cultural History of the Book of Mormon.”  It is available on Amazon.com for those who
are interested. It is not easy to navigate your way through the first volume,
but it gets easier in the two which follow. I enjoyed all of them, but some
will find the writing style difficult.



Daymon’s work is not without its weaknesses.
But this is a valuable ground-breaking attempt to account for early Mormon
history as an explanation for how the Book of Mormon has been sadly neglected
or, to the extent it has been used at all, misused.
Below are the reviews I have put onto
Amazon for each of the first three volumes:








Review of Volume 1(Setting, a Foundation of Stones to Stumble Over):
When someone you love is terribly ill, but
unwilling to accept treatment, what is the solution? Is fiction about their
condition an adequate substitute for dealing with their illness? Can you lie
your way out of such difficulties? What if the necessary treatment will be
unpleasant? Even painful? Does your love of her justify causing her pain? And
so it is that Daymon Smith ventures into treatment of his beloved faith in
Mormonism. I don't think she's going to appreciate it (or at least her
management won't).



Here is an effort to search into the origins of the mythical and
tradition-ridden retelling of the origins of Mormonism in a substantial and
candid way. The resulting exposure of events, measured against the contemporary
source material (which made no effort to conceal what happened by adopting
later interpretations and reinterpretations), requires a new lens to be
accepted.



For some this new lens will be disorienting, even confusing. This retelling
makes no allowance for the fictions created to support the traditions which
encumber Mormonism. Some will reject this outright because it disagrees with
their lifelong understanding of events. But in the end it is fiction, not
truth, which really threatens our world.



If we are viewing Mormonism from within (as the author and this reviewer does)
or from without, it deserves the respect of as honest an assessment of its
origins and meaning as we can give the topic. This book is a delightful search
into, and then an honest of a retelling of the events that those living it
might have understood and agreed with it. Some of them would be shocked at the
face of both modern corporate Mormonism and the stories it tells about Mormon
origins. They might not recognize themselves in the corporate accounts, but
likely would see themselves in this book.



The influence of Parley Pratt and Sidney Rigdon upon the original trajectory of
Mormonism is parsed and shown to be considerable. Much like the foreign
occupiers of Egypt anciently who claimed to conquer Egypt, only to find themselves
conquered by it (Pharaoh Alexander, for example)so too Mormonism's triumph in
the first Mission to the Lamanites failed to convert any of the targeted
audience, instead bringing aboard the Campbellite community at Kirtland, Ohio.
This missionary success became an instant burden on Joseph Smith's original
path, bringing into the "church" what would be a body of beliefs
which entwined themselves into Mormonism and begin immediately to dominate the
faith.



In this book Smith tracks these cultural and religious influences to
demonstrate how the hallmarks of the "restoration" through Joseph
Smith grew to include much of the zeitgeist of the Scotts, through Thomas and
then Alexander Campbell, then Rigdon to Pratt and into Mormonism. The "Old
Independents" and John Glas were among those who set in motion a stone
rolling downhill, and Smith searches for the many historical antecedents which
Mormonism acquired as it first rolled forth.



This history tells the "context" in which the Book of Mormon appeared
to emerge into the foreground. That "context" then substituted
pretext for text, metatext for reading meaning INTO the Book of Mormon rather
than allowing meaning to come FROM the text itself.



I found this book hard to put down. But some readers will have a difficult time
with this author. He should be read for substance and not necessarily for
style. His anthropological bent and graduate school vocabulary will leave some
readers wondering what he's getting at. As I read it I came away fearing this
would not be wideread or well understood except for a very few. Hence the four
instead of five stars. I'd encourage everyone intersted in Mormonism to make
the try.



At the book's end Smith quotes from Michel Foucault this line: "How can we
reduce the great peril, the great danger with which fiction threatens our
world?" Inspired by the question Smith has undertaken a work to value
truth above fiction with a result I found delightful and entertaining at the
same time.






 



Volume 2A (Voicing, Being, Power):
The second volume of Daymon Smith's
Cultural History of the Book of Mormon is better than the first. It is more
accessible and less technical in writing style, but every bit as important in
content. Like the first, I found the book hard to put down.



Daymon Smith's retelling of Mormonism's neglect, abuse and misunderstanding of
the Book of Mormon is gripping and tragic. From the opening moments of the
book's appearance, it was overwhelmed by an artificial forced interpretation
which rendered it merely a secondary support for the Bible. When read for its
own content, the Book of Mormon roundly condemns the Bible as a corrupted text
which has had important covenants removed by men.



The Book of Mormon voices Jesus Christ's message. That message is not aligned with
Biblical traditions. But the faith which claims The Book of Mormon as its
foundational scripture has never actually allowed the text to inform the faith
claims.



As Daymon Smith acknowledges, it is not as linear as "Campbell begot
Rigdon, who begot Pratt, who begot Mormonism" however all of these
operated together to make The Book of Mormon into a Bible meta-text. The effort
underway in this series of books tracks the beginning of Mormonism using the
archival material generated at the time, and permits the reader to see how the
religion that emerged was not well informed by The Book of Mormon itself.
Instead The Book of Mormon has been required to fit into another, prior
tradition.



The second volume is a bit more reader friendly, but you will need to have read
the first beforehand. The story continues here, but you need to be familiar
with the material that precedes it to appreciate the evolution of Mormonism.
Because it is more readable, I give this volume more stars than the first. But
they are equally valuable.






 



Volume 2B (Follies, Epic and Novel):
This volume in Daymon Smith's series
continues the account of how Mormonism's descent into a wilderness was
physical, cultural and spiritual. Heedless that the possible cause could have
been God's ire with the Latter-day Saints, Mormon leadership blamed their
followers for insufficient fidelity to the leaders. It was unthinkable to even
consider the leaders were themselves pursuing a course unapproved by God.



The Mormon Reformation only intensified the notion that Mormonism could advance
only at the cost of submission to the leaders, because God's disapproval was
evident. The cause could not have been the follies, epic and novel, of the
direction leaders had taken the work begun by Joseph Smith.



In this volume the story begun in the earlier volumes continues, with chilling
accounts of the depths to which the early Mormon followers fell in search of
pleasing their leaders, if not God.



Particularly interesting in this volume is the account of how "keys and
power" were claimed to have been continued through a replacement
hierarchy, then a replacement "prophet" which descended thereafter to
the leaders who followed. The foundation of sand is recast into stone by
rhetoric originating in an affidavit from Orson Hyde between September 1844 and
March 1845 which none of the other apostles would sign. Daymon Smith reflects
on the document as reading "like an obsequious boosting of apostolic
ambitions to take collectively the powers of the church, by copying the image
of the Prophet onto their countenance." (P. 50.)



Enjoyable and `tough love' throughout, this is an unrelenting stare into the
eyes of the foundation of the beast which now claims to be the Restoration
through Joseph Smith. If you have an appetite for candor and a willingness to
go on an adventure in humanity's insufficient best-efforts, then you will find
this a great read. This is Mormonism stripped of varnish and left naked,
completely unaided by soft lighting and an unfocused lens. The truth requires
something as important as the Restoration through Joseph Smith to be allowed to
define itself, not to have pretensions and presumptions act as substitute.



It is the failure of Mormons to allow The Book of Mormon to ever have spoken
which drives this series. Daymon Smith is hoping to allow that to at last
begin. But first an honest seeker must overcome the opposition now to be found
in the institution which has made its fortune by selling a different version.

Centerville Transcript - Covenants

Blogger links are broken right now. Here is the Scribd link to the Centerville talk.