Marc Tyler Nobleman's Blog, page 144

Super '70s and '80s: "Batman and Robin Meet Dr. Danger"

Introduction to series "Super '70s and '80s."

In the late 1970s, Rodger Hess produced a series of stage shows featuring live-action superheroes. This was one.

Of the ten shows/topics I'm covering in this series, this is, I believe, the only one that had literally no other Google-able presence online beforehand. And they say the Internet knows all.

I got permission to post all images; if you want to repost, please do the same and ask me first.

Performers interviewed:

Gary Meitrott
James Rebhorn

Gary Meitrott

James Rebhorn

[NOTE: I did not interview them at the same time; I combined their answers since they were part of the same production.]

How did you get the job on Batman and Robin Meet Dr. Danger?

Gary Meitrott: I auditioned for it. I had watched the TV series and I could mimic very well the actor who portrayed [Robin]. When I went into my act, I could tell the producer was sold on me.
James Rebhorn: I auditioned via an agent submission, although I was hired to do an earlier version of the show featuring only myself [as Batman] and Gary Meitrott, who played Robin. We toured the country playing shopping malls. It was a safety show for kids.

What were you doing before that?

Gary Meitrott: I was new to New York City. I had come to seek my fortune in the Big Apple on the Broadway stage,
James Rebhorn: Pretty much whatever I could do as an actor. Commercials, dinner theatre, showcases productions in New York, etc.

How old were you during the show?

Gary Meitrott: I was around 23-24.
James Rebhorn: I can't recall my exact age, but I was in my early twenties.

How much did you know about those character(s) before your role in the show?

James Rebhorn: Having never read comic books, other than an occasional viewing of the original Batman TV show, I knew very little.

Where did you perform the show?

Gary Meitrott: We performed mostly in malls throughout the country. But for one performance, which was a special treat to me, [we performed] on the world famous Steel Pier on the boardwalk in Atlantic City, New Jersey.
James Rebhorn: At shopping malls around the country and I think also at a park in Brooklyn.

For how long did you perform with the show?

Gary Meitrott: I was in it longer than Jim—two to three years.
James Rebhorn: On and off for about a year and a half, as I recall. Rarely were the gigs scheduled back-to-back, so there was a considerable amount of down time.

How much rehearsal did you do before the show opened?

Gary Meitrott: Initially this was treated like a play with a director and enough creative effort went into it to make me feel that I was a real actor playing a character in a performance piece.

How did the show work—i.e. how many shows a day, how many days a week? How much travel?

Gary Meitrott: We would work for two days on the weekend and do three or four shows a day. The show was about 30 minutes long.
James Rebhorn: Generally, we did three shows a day. Since the show was designed for kids, most of the time the engagements started on a Friday and ended on a Sunday. During the summer, we'd also play midweek. Gary and I both had microphones with remote control buttons that controlled a tape recorder. Dr. Danger's lines were all-prerecorded. When it was his turn to speak, we pressed the remote control button. Gary and I traveled alone. We did all the setup and takedowns.

What was the show's storyline?

Gary Meitrott: Robin fell under the spell of Dr. Danger and started to play with matches, broken glass, etc. Batman had to use the audience to shake me out of it! They succeeded!

What was a typical audience reaction?

Gary Meitrott: Very responsive. Depending on the size of the city and how well the promotion director did his/her job, we could have up to 4,000 people at a performance.

Any goofs or accidents that happened during a performance?

Gary Meitrott: Oh, yes, of course! It's live theatre. One time we had multiple shows and we needed to get our costumes dry cleaned between shows; during the show, the cleaning solvent started to irritate and then eat our skin. I was whimpering saying my lines…I am a firm believer in the show must go on!
James Rebhorn: All the time, but none that I can specifically recall. Our skills at improvisation saved the bacon on many occasions.

What was the music like?

Gary Meitrott: No music.
James Rebhorn: Typical Batman stuff. "DadadadadadadaBatman!"

Did you meet with fans afterward while in costume? If so, did you sign autographs?

Gary Meitrott: Oh, yes. There would be long lines. And I very much enjoyed doing it. However, as I learned, security had to be in place and doing their job. Once security was not doing a good job and I pulled Batman away from the crowd and said we're going! The management was not happy with me and I explained why I did it. Management did not take my first warning seriously. My action got their attention and response.

Did the show lead to other work for you?

Gary Meitrott: Yes, to the Rally DuPont Car Wax commercial. Flew out to LA, big-time commercial, big million-dollar director, big set, big crew. I was on cloud nine, making big money, thinking I had made it…not so!
James Rebhorn: Gary and I did a Batman and Robin commercial for Rally Car Wax. The ad opened with me sliding down the Batpole hearing Robin say, "Hurry, Batman, the Joker's loose!" To which my response was, "Wait, Robin, the Batmobile needs waxing!" We had a blast.

Jim and Gary shooting commercial for Rally DuPont Car Wax.
Courtesy of Gary Meitrott.

What are you doing these days (professionally and personally)?

Gary Meitrott: I am teaching at a private college in Vermont. I am in the music and theatre departments. I have my own ethnic hand percussion school called Drum Journeys of Earth. I am the artistic director of Shakespeare on Main Street, an outdoor summer theatre. Between African, Cuban, Haitian, Brazilian, and Middle Eastern percussion and directing Shakespeare, I am in paradise! I live in the woods in a very small "hobbit hut" and have a compost outhouse for the past 16 years. I completed my Masters in conscious studies from Goddard College and my focus is ecstatic trance. I have a live event called Soul Bath Trance Dance with a ten-member band called the Twice Baked Orchestra. We take people on a journey to collective joy!
James Rebhorn: I'm currently working on a new Comedy Central series called Big Lake. [It debuted in 2010 and co-starred former Saturday Night Live cast members Chris Parnell and Horatio Sanz. James has appeared in numerous other films and TV shows including Independence Day, Scent of a Woman, and the series finale of Seinfeld.]

If you have children and/or grandchildren, what do they think about your time as a superhero?

Gary Meitrott: I have two nieces and nephews. My two sisters each had a boy and a girl. My sister Melody and her children are considerably older than my younger sister, Merilee, and her two children. Melody's children would have remembered most likely. I cannot recall their reaction.
James Rebhorn: They were both born after my Batman days and don't see my career in spandex as having much relevance to their lives. Good for them!

Has anyone else ever interviewed you about your time with the show?

James Rebhorn: No.

What was your reaction when you first heard I was contacting you about your time as a superhero?

Gary Meitrott: A great ball of joy exploded inside of me, with a smile that hurt my face muscles with incredible sensations of memories flashing before me.

What is your fondest memory of the show?

Gary Meitrott: Working with Jim Rebhorn. I was going through my martial arts moves and Jim gave me this knowing look and then the inflection of his voice let me know I had tickled him. He was fond of saying, " Gary, you are a constant source entertainment."
James Rebhorn: Working with Gary. We had a great time and played well off of each other.

Are you still in touch?

Gary Meitrott: Very infrequently with Jim. I have worked with two other Batmans. With one of them it was just a professional relationship, but the other I became good friends for years after we worked together. I do not know if he is still alive now. His name is Dan Deray.

Thank you for your time and memories.

Gary Meitrott: It's been a pleasure to speak of this with you. You have an authentic depth to you that I can tell brings not only pleasure but a depth of human connection that I find missing in most instances.

Next: Bugs Bunny Meets the Superheroes.

Bill Finger was 4-F in WWII

Please come back tomorrow for the continuation of the massive "Super '70s and '80s" series, running most days between now and 10/12/11! And for today, a post of "regularly scheduled content":

Early in my research on Bill Finger, uncredited co-creator and resident visionary behind Batman, I learned that Finger (born 1914) was declared 4-F (unfit for service) for World War II. I talked to everyone still alive who might remember why, but none did—except for onetime DC Comics writer Alvin Schwartz (born 1916!).

Thing is, he ain't telling.

Well, he did kindly share plenty about Bill, but out of respect for his old friend, he wouldn't divulge the reason for the 4-F classification. "That's really private," he wrote me.

There's speculation the 4-F may have related to Bill's childhood history with scarlet fever, but my uninformed guess is that scarlet fever is not something that would be considered private. I have wondered if it was something mental.

So I contacted the military. Since Bill never served, I presumed they would have no record of him, but alas, they did keep selective service records of all who registered whether or not they were then drafted.

However, WWII medical records met a different fate.

My contact at the Military Personnel Records Center wrote "The last of [the medical records were] apparently destroyed in 1978 by the Selective Service System in accordance with approved record retention schedules."

When I asked if he could infer a cause for the 4-F based on what is in the records they do have, he wrote, "I would assume it was something in his induction physical, but I really have nothing to base that on."

I then asked, "From the Classification Record, it appears Finger was first classified 3A, but then changed to 4F? Is that how it seems to you? Either way, the next page then classifies him as 4A...can you confirm if I'm reading all this correctly, and if so, what it means that he had three different classifications?"

His response: "Those classifications he received would make sense. It would seem a logical progression that he was made available for military service, then deferred because of dependency [NOTE: I thought this meant children, which Bill didn't yet have during the war, but my contact said it could've meant spouse] issues, then made available due to need of the military (perhaps they redefined dependency guidelines during this time) but ultimately rejected for medical reasons … All these classifications would have come over time as he was tracked by the Selective Service system. Generally everyone is given a 1-A from the start, then based on their circumstances and the need for men in the military, their classifications change."

Here is what I did learn (some of which is from the forms posted here while some comes from registration book tabloid pages they mailed me copies of but which are too big for me to scan in one piece):

he registered under his given name even though he'd already started going by Billhe registered 10/16/40 (age 27)he lived at the same address as his fatherhe listed his employers as "Bob Kane [space] All-American Comics" (no National, which published Batman)the government mailed him its questionnaire 7/7/41; he returned it 7/17/41 (he wasn't known for being so prompt with his scripts!)he appeared for a physical exam 4/20/43the date he was to report for induction appears to be 7/14/43 but is crossed outhe was rejected 7/29/43
And some vital stats:

5"7"
brown eyes
brown hair
light complexion
"scar on left cheek"

So while I was able to inch closer to the answer to the 4-F mystery than I initially expected, unless Alvin changes his mind, I may never find it.

Super '70s and '80s: "Legends of the Superheroes"—Barbara Joyce (Huntress)

Introduction to series "Super '70s and '80s."

Introduction to subseries "Legends of the Superheroes" (including list of interviewees).

I began looking for Barbara Joyce in January 2010 and found her in January 2011.

But she had passed away in March 2010.

I was disappointed in general and even more so because she had been alive when I started to look for her. I was too late. However, I had the fortune to find her family, and both her ex-husband and her niece, who was closest to Barbara, kindly shared some recollections.

Once I found that Barbara had died, I stumbled into the fact that she had an ex-husband in checking a public records database. Barbara was born in 1941 and her ex in 1920. I was pleasantly surprised to find that he was alive and well and most kind.

He didn't know about LOTS. To verify we were talking about the same Barbara Joyce, he asked if mine is "big-busted"; I said according to the photos I've seen, it seems so.

He then told me the following:

Barbara Joyce was her theatrical name.They separated around 1978 (just before LOTS).She had no children.Her parents are dead.She never remarried.A niece of Barbara's had called to tell Stan that Barbara had died but he didn't get her name, it went so fast.Her brother was a dentist in Florida. Barbara and her brother, somewhat recently.

Luckily, Barbara's brother had an unusual last name through which I was able to connect with her family. Glimpses I learned from her nephew:

He also didn't know about LOTS.Barbara smoked "forever" and died of lung cancer.She had appeared on TV with Sonny and Cher (presumably on their eponymous show).She would never tell you how old she was.She was funny.

The last person to see Barbara was her niece (and this nephew's sister) Courtney. Barbara left all Courtney's young daughter.

What else Courtney shared (along with all the photos shown here):

Barbara would read Abbott and Costello scripts to Courtney over the phone.After acting, Barbara did odd jobs, including a little modeling.She moved to Florida and became a receptionist.She moved to Washington State, where she helped run a bed and breakfast and where she was living when she died.Courtney flew up to see her just before she died.
Did you think you'd ever see the prom photo of the
woman who played the first live-action Huntress?






This is a sweet expression.

Barbara Joyce 1941-2010

Next: Batman and Robin Meet Dr. Danger.

Super '70s and '80s: "Legends of the Superheroes"—the actors, part 2 of 2

Introduction to series "Super '70s and '80s."

Introduction to subseries "Legends of the Superheroes" (including list of interviewees).

Legends of the Superheroes actors, part 1 of 2.

[NOTE: The actors included here are Garrett Craig (Captain Marvel), Rod Haase (Flash), and Bill Nuckols (Hawkman). I did not interview them at the same time; I combined their answers since they were part of the same production.]

What, if any, mistakes or accidents happened during the shoots?

Garrett Craig: Did you ever own anything that looked really, really awesome but didn't work well? These yellow boots made me the Man of Steel from the knees down and yet everybody wanted Action Boy. Like the day Regis Philbin came to do an interview with someone from the LOTS cast…

I did sometimes ad-lib on set. So you can imagine how wet-finger-in-the-socket shocked I was when they told me to go with Regis for the interview. At the time, I think Regis was working A.M. Los Angeles. When I swung open the padded door, in my Santa red skinny jeans, the rafters immediately rattled with Regis's electric Bronx [accent], "Hey Captain Marvel—fly over here."

I'd seen the show and I knew he was quick to riff with. Regis [said], "Why don't you jump off a ladder into the interview, like you're flying in?" I told him that normally I loved being wicked ape, but that I'm not really wearing Superboots. [They were more] like solid yellow sewer plates. I [said I] can't do it—I'd land harder than an anvil on Wile E. Coyote.

When Regis has an idea, he seems to move faster than the speed of sound because he didn't hear me! Since he thought it was a union job, he kept looking for some Teamster to move the ladder he found for me to jump off of. We waited and waited. Finally, I just grabbed the ladder, climbed to the second step, and jumped off. Regis stared at me like he had just seen Mary Poppins in a thong. Regis laughed so hard, he ended up, I think out of pity, asking me to [a] party [he was having].

What were your expectations for the shows?

Garrett Craig: If you have any idea of what is going to succeed in Hollywood, you probably already work for Pixar. As long as I can remember, critics have said this genre or that is as dead as Robert Downey, Jr.'s career. In defense of critics, picking a winning flick is a lot like guessing what mistakes from your past the woman in your life will be using in your next argument.

We all worked and hoped to make it a creative, funny take on superheroes. There were so many talented people, production, acting…[but still] the lightning could have gone into the bottle from any direction.
Bill Nuckols: I hoped it would do well.

Did you think the concept would get picked up as a series? Did you want it to?

Garrett Craig: We didn't get to see dailies and we were shooting in so many different locations [that] I don't know if it [would have been] possible to know how the parade would end. And even if we could see what the producers were seeing, what would you base the success on? New Family in Town fails [to be picked up], [is retooled as Happy Days], [and] ends up running forever. There is such a magical combination of everyone involved in a series, you have to understand that, in most cases, talent won't get you there…but it will keep you there.
Bill Nuckols: That would have been nice, but I don't know what the producers had in mind.
Rod Haase: I didn't think there was any chance of LOTS being picked up as a series—there were too many superhero characters. As I recall, Batman and Robin were in LOTS and they had already had a TV series. The other thing about this production was that it was so cheesy, with really inane dialogue—not much imagination in the way of plot or story arc.

Was there a wrap party or did any of the cast get together to celebrate in any way?

Garrett Craig: I'm not even sure if actors getting together qualifies as a celebration. If a huge number of people with varying degrees of multiple personality problems get together, that's [either] rehab or Congress. Besides, at that time, we weren't sure what we had to celebrate. If there was a cast party, much like my prom, I didn't know about it.

How long did you keep the shows on your resume? What other jobs, if any, did they help you get?

Garrett Craig: My agent pointed out that most actors work five to ten years to be "discovered from nowhere."
Bill Nuckols: Always kept them on. Was in movie Sunset Cover and TV series Supertrain.

What did you do professionally after the shows?

Garrett Craig: I wanted to stay near show business so I tried to think outside the forum. I started [by] becoming the after-game "crowd coordinator" for the L.A. Lakers. It just seemed to me [that] most real Lakers fans were so unprepared for that level of civil disobedience.
Bill Nuckols: I slowly drifted out of acting.

Did you stay in touch with any of the other stars after the show?

Garrett Craig: I tried to [ask] Burt Ward to help me with the marketing [for my Lakers job], but apparently he wants some kind of fee to call you back.
Bill Nuckols: I did not.

Did you bump into any of the other stars at any point afterward?

Garrett Craig: During the LOTS shoot of "The Roast," Ed McMahon had been the very positive, vocal, sell-the-product kind of gent that you heard he was. He always had an uplifting attitude and made no excuses; he wanted to see LOTS become a success. All the conversations we had were both very humorous and very driven to find ways to make the show better.

Back [then], there was a club called Dino's Lodge where a lot of people would go to have breakfast waaay after hours. It was a place where you could kind of hide after the other clubs or studios were closed. [One] evening as I glanced up over my favorite, [a] mountain of Eggs Benedict, I saw McMahon's 6'4" expansive self fighting his way through the jungle of people. With a smile like a warm beacon through the darkened room, [he said], "Hey Captain, where's the cape?" [When Ed was] almost to my table, I could see [he] had two very attractive blond friends under each arm. "How bad was the accident?" I said. Ed was waving at other friends but turned back to see what I was on about. "What?" he [said as he] stopped at my table. "The accident…so bad you have to have crutches?" Without [missing] a beat, McMahon said ([accompanied by] that booming laugh), "No, no…these ladies are security. If I fall, one cushions the blow and the other gives me mouth to mouth." The girls laughed even harder. Too many years with Carson for anybody to corner the big man on the chessboard that easily.

Did anyone on the street ever recognize you from the shows?

Garrett Craig: There was this one time and I did get very excited! I was walking through Westwood and this girl went into hysteria shouting, "I know you…you're that guy on TV!" I was thrilled and said, "Well, yeah." She [said], "You wear that red suit." I was trying to keep shy and cool "Yeah, I do." Now she was jumping up and down saying, "I knew it! I watch Teletubbies all the time with my little sister!"
Rod Haase: Not as I recall.
Bill Nuckols: No. My face was covered in the show.

What memorabilia, if any, did you save from LOTS (TV Guide ad, your costume, press kit, call sheets, your contract, props, etc.)?

Garrett Craig: I did save some of the TV Guides, complete with Doritos stains.

Have you ever heard from fans about the shows (letters, phone calls, e-mails)?

Garrett Craig: Actually…no. The only fans I have use crayons.
Rod Haase: Two or three comic book fans in 30 years.
Bill Nuckols: I got some fan mail shortly after the shows.

Have you ever heard from writers (before me) about the shows? If so, do you know how they found you?

Garrett Craig: Are you kidding, Marc? Who else would take a year to find this long gone LOTS cast? You're the only one I know with such dynamics and perseverance that you make the Energizer Bunny look like Eeyore getting a ransom note from Winnie-the-Pooh, written on his broken honey jar.
Bill Nuckols: You are the first.

What was your reaction when you heard I had found you and wanted to interview you?

Garrett Craig: I felt like anybody else [these days] who gets a message from someone [he doesn't] know…panic!
Rod Haase: Hmmm.
Bill Nuckols: I was surprised.

Did you know what a cult following the show has today?

Garrett Craig: I don't know how many fans we have. It would be great if it were true. And on the side of stranger things have happened, I suppose if the E*TRADE talking baby, Cats & Dogs 2, Vampires Suck, and karaoke can have fans, then I suppose LOTS could, [too]?

And if you're out there LOTS fans, HOLLA! Wazup? RESPECT! You walkin' to yer own rhythm.
Rod Haase: No.
Bill Nuckols: No, I didn't.

Where do you live now?

Garrett Craig: California.
Rod Haase: California.
Bill Nuckols: Baltimore/DC area.

What do you do for a living?

Garrett Craig: Elementary school substitute teacher.
Rod Haase: Mortgage broker. I did a number of other TV shows, movies of the week, features, and commercials, but by 1985, I was pretty much out of the business. I didn't go into mortgage brokering until 2001.
Bill Nuckols: In between work right now.

Do you have children?

Garrett Craig: I have one daughter named Cindy, who to date has kept this immaculately organized life in her home and the children's ministry she oversees. She has been able to lead a sure balance in her family life. It has been a perfect picture until now! Now, however, the picture contains new royalty, Princess Aubree, three years old. The Queen is not dead but has met with her majestic match.

There is also a son. I think we call him Jim or at least that's the name we keep on the refrigerator to remind us of him when he comes home. He is very funny.

And finally there is our party girl, Donna. She makes every birthday, Christmas, holiday like a Disney theme park. She truly puts so much love into everything she plans, which is why we had so much hope for her newborn son. But it's not quite the way she planned it. Let's just say if Mattel made a "Toy Son" that ran through walls, bounced off stairs, leaped from the tops of trees, and never slept, our daughter's newborn son, Josiah, would have broken Mattel's Toy Son within ten minutes.
Rod Haase: None.
Bill Nuckols: No.

What do your kids think of your time as a superhero?

Garrett Craig: If you look online, you can see some good reports and some people just talkin' smack about LOTS. For my time on this planet, I find the goal is as important as the people and the experiences during and on the way to Oz. Guaranteed there will be flying monkeys, but you learn to see the good hearts and wisdom of people who become great friends. I try, do not always succeed, to be as worthy a service as I can to the mission I am given. I sincerely felt like everyone did their best to bring laughter to LOTS.

Of the six billion people on this planet, we got to try and create something very special. Is it special if only 30 million people see it? Or is it enough that [only] the mother bird sees her baby fly? For a few minutes, we flew! So was I honored? Was it too cool to have been chosen to run rampant through a comic book fantasy? You bet! It was the best of times to pretend, with a lot of other great pretenders. So I do gratefully thank everyone involved in this super providence…especially Mr. Marc Nobleman for the opportunity to say it out loud.

If a comic book/pop culture convention paid your way, would you attend and sign autographs for fans?

Garrett Craig: Yes, I would go to sign autographs for our fans. But wouldn't it be easier just to go out for a hamburger with both of them?
Rod Haase: Probably not.
Bill Nuckols: Perhaps.

How do you look back at your experience on this show?

Garrett Craig: I look back on it a lot like I look back on kindergarten. It would have been nice to have known more, to have done more but…it brings back awesome memories.
Bill Nuckols: It was fun. Maybe I should have stayed out there, tried for other parts.

Do you have a favorite memory about the LOTS shows?

Garrett Craig: My last scene was with the incredibly versatile Frank Gorshin. I had seen him do his stand-up impressions. When Frank came along, impressions were kind of cheesy and corny. He [recast] it into whole new 3-D experience. Frank was like Rich Little [crossed with] Jim Carrey. I assumed he was too big to rehearse with a newbie and we would just go live on set. That's when I felt the tap on my shoulder. I turned around and Gorshin, as Jimmy Cagney, asked me, "You wouldn't be Marvel, would you?" I hung my head, swayed my shoulder, peered up as John Wayne, and said, "Well, Pilgrim…that would be me." Later, when we got to know each other, we would argue who had the best "Duke." In my act, I did some of Frank's characters: Cary Grant, Eddie G. Robinson, Jimmy Stewart, Karloff, Brando, and Bogie. But none of my characters came with the speed and expressions of Gorshin's; he was a master. Without hesitating, he asked, "You know your lines? I said 'I [do]…and I know yours, too!" He waved me towards his Cadillac and said, "Good, 'cause I don't know any of mine yet. Let's rehearse."

For the next few hours, I was treated to a position I had not begun to earn but I was beyond blessed to be part of. I got access to years of training and experience that you could not begin to pay for. There were stories about actors, engagements, trials and errors, hard work ethic, and a whole lotta' laughter. Frank told me that in his act, he had a bit where he sang a popular commercial of the day: "I wish I were an Oscar Mayer wiener." He said the people at Oscar Mayer [then] sent him a year's supply of hot dogs. "Now in my act," [he continued], "I sing, 'I wish I were a Lincoln Con-ti-nen-tal.'"

We actually [developed] a far funnier routine [with] Marvel actually going crazy and off into impersonation wonderland with Gorshin. But Carruthers would not allow one word to be changed…

It was getting late. Carruthers [said], "I'm sorry, Frank, we don't have enough sunlight to shoot the scene. Frank [said], "What d'ya mean, there's plenty of light!" Carruthers shook his head no [and said], "Only to do the master; the sun will be over the hill by the time we get to the pick-ups." Frank: "Okay, no sweat! Marvel and I will do it in one take."

Note: A four minute scene in theater…no sweat. A four minute scene on tape, shot/reverse shot, close-up, wide, all of which the camera people have to choreograph in what is known as a R-E-H-E-A-R-S-A-L…forgetaboutit!

Carruthers: "Frank, I'm sorry. We just don't have enough time. I think it's already too dark." Frank motioned to the lead camera [and said], "You got enough time if we do it in one take?" Not wanting to cross Carruthers, he looked down [but said], "I think so." Carruthers shot me a hard glance [and said], "Marvel, don't screw up!"

Usually there are a few nerves before a scene, but Frank and I had shredded this script like a CIA secret. [If this were] vaudeville, I [would've been] what was called the "second banana"; I had to do the straight lines and give Frank something to bounce off of. He was slipping in and out of personalities like Madonna through an all-men's college. My character was supposed to be very confused…so I could not show how much wicked crazy fun I was having doing comedy with one of the best in town. When Carruthers yelled cut, Frank looked over at me sweating big time from all his antics; [he gave a] thumb up and mouth[ed] the words, "One take!" The entire cast and crew erupted in a standing ovation, which you can't quite understand unless you've tried to be in the business.

Anything else you'd like to add?

Garrett Craig: I thank and appreciate everyone who believed in all of us enough to give us a chance to become [superheroes]. I thank you for recognizing we tried our best. I hope in the true spirit of all superheroes that you are inspired to try, to enjoy, to never give up becoming. To persevere until you find your gift. It is my true wish that you become the superhero you were made to be.

Next: Barbara Joyce (Huntress).

Super '70s and '80s: "Legends of the Superheroes"—the actors, part 1 of 2

Introduction to series "Super '70s and '80s."

Introduction to subseries "Legends of the Superheroes" (including list of interviewees).

[NOTE: I did not interview them at the same time; I combined their answers since they were part of the same production.]

Garrett Craig as Captain Marvel

Rod Haase as Flash

Bill Nuckols as Hawkman
How old were you when you appeared in LOTS?

Bill Nuckols: 26.

What was your background before appearing in LOTS?

Garrett Craig: I came to LA to do comedy. I did stand-up at the Ice House, Troubadour, and Comedy Store starting when Sammy Shore first gave comics a shot at open mike night. But I quickly found an even easier way to make money. On a good night, comics love to say they "killed." When they would come offstage, I would show them that I could mimic their rhythm, characters, and personality. I came with one-liners to fill the dead air. It didn't get me that sweet crib in Malibu but I did get to meet people like Johnny Carson, Redd Foxx, and George Carlin.

Back in the day, you could pick up the price of a dinner by standing in a police lineup. This particular evening was a three-card Monte of flasher…flasher…who can find the flasher? Everybody in the lineup had to open his trench coat, one at a time. To my confidence-shattering surprise, when I opened my coat, the lady screamed, "That's him, that's the guy!" The detective leaned forward and squinted in my direction and said, "I don't see anything." The frantic woman: "I know…and I know what I didn't see…and that's him!"
Rod Haase: I don't recall when LOTS came up in my illustrious film career; however, I played a number of superheroes around this time. One was in a film called Hero at Large with John Ritter. I don't recall the character's name [NOTE: Captain Avenger], but at one point the film was the title of the superhero and later changed. I portrayed Flash Gordon as part of a "say no to drugs" campaign that was part of the Reagan administration's drug policy; it featured Nancy Reagan. I had also done seven or eight commercials for an amusement park in Los Angeles called Magic Mountain. My character was another superhero named Speed King who claimed to have built the park more or less single-handedly. Magic Mountain was later acquired by Six Flags Over Texas. Among the rides [my character] was credited with having built was the first rollercoaster that did a full 360-degree revolution and another mammoth rollercoaster named Colossus.
Bill Nuckols: Bodybuilder.

How did you hear about the audition?

Garrett Craig: Networking. Connections. Rumors about jobs are like flies…never a shortage of them but try catching one! [When] I heard about LOTS, I was doing comedy punch-up (rewriting and adding jokes) for a producer friend of mine. He was also a friend of Bill Carruthers, director of LOTS (with Chris Darley). My friend had a script of LOTS and thought I might get some work there. "Why don't you rework this?" He said if I did, he would try to get me a meeting with Mr. Carruthers. He tossed the script to me [and said], "I think you can see more humor in it." It seemed like a really hot idea at the time. From the distance it even looked like the spark of a firing success…but as I got closer it was more like a blindfold and firing squad.
Bill Nuckols: I had an agent.

What do you remember about the audition?

Garrett Craig: I didn't know how close to production they were and that they had not cast Captain Marvel. I had been up all night pumping up the one-liners but not changing the plot, hoping to sell some joke copy. When I met with Mr. Carruthers, he asked, "What have you got for me?" But [he was] looking at me like he was a T. rex and I was wearing a meat hat. Usually with a pitch, you've got about three sentences before the floor slides out from under you.

So all the time I'm doing my best vocal Cirque du Soleil of all the superhero parts in LOTS, Carruthers is nodding as if he's interested in my rewrites, but he's slithering me around backstage through booms and props like a witch doctor getting the tribal virgin to the edge of the volcano for sacrifice. Carruthers never looked but he never ran into anything, either. Suddenly, he threw open the casting door to Lee Schaff Guardino. "You think that cape would fit him?" Carruthers said.

Carruthers told me the writing on the script was locked because they were going to start shooting in two days, but if I wanted I could play Captain Marvel. I spun toward Ms. Guardino to see if I was being punk'd and said, "So you want a Marvel that does one-liners and dresses like an overcooked Caped-Potater?" Guardino, who always seemed to get me, nodded and said, "We even have some boots that look like the yellow cheese to go with that Potater." The yellow boots would turn out to be the least funny thing about the Marvel outfit!
Bill Nuckols: Seemed to get it on the first try.

Did you need to try on a costume?

Bill Nuckols: No.

Did you try out for any other characters besides the one you ended up portraying?

Garrett Craig: That would be a negative, Houston. Although I would liked to have read for the Weather Wizard—absolutely nothing against Jeff Altman's portrayal. I say that because one, it was great, and two because Jeff scares me! When I watched Jeff working, I would always imagine a lion with its tail on fire in a herd of zebras. [No], I wished I could've tried the Wiz because I really wanted to run lines with Adam West. We spent a lot of time on set together and he was a very funny, stand-up dude. And I was sure that if he was allowed to get crazy—away from the Batman cadence of comedy delivery, people would see an even more mad-dog, funnier side to him.

Had you heard of your character before portraying him?

Garrett Craig: Like most boys, I had heard of the Justice League. I wanted to be like Plastic Man so I could reach the top shelf where my mom stashed the cookies. Like Batman so I could have the cool ride. [I was too young to know about insurance and gas mileage.] Did you know that Adam West's Batmobile got up to only about 20 miles per hour and Adam in most scenes had to hold the driver side door closed with his left arm? It's the reason he never won Miss Congeniality in any parade…he couldn't wave! Last and most importantly, I wanted to be like Superman, strong enough to leap tall buildings in a single bound and faster than a speeding bullet so I could please just once finish eating my mom's meatloaf surprise. My stomach was never strong enough to eat it, and I wasn't fast enough to hide it.
Rod Haase: Yes.
Bill Nuckols: Yes, I had read comic books.

Do you remember getting the job? What was your reaction?

Garrett Craig: Do you remember going trick-or-treating? It was all just too good to believe when you got home! It became like my first kiss—I had no idea what I was doing or how I got there but I wanted everybody to know I did it.
Bill Nuckols: Don't really remember, but I must have been happy.

How did you feel dressing like a superhero?

Garrett Craig: Once we started shooting, it became every kid's towel wrapped around your neck, hands extended in flight, running screaming through the backyard…full-out fun Fantasyland.
Rod Haase: I didn't feel anything particularly special about dressing as a superhero—it was just another costume to get in and out of. One thing I do recall is that I made a suggestion to the costumers at MGM that they fashion the boots around running shoes. They ignored my suggestion and I found it virtually impossible, as did the stunt men, to exhibit a catlike grace while running across rooftops in boots.
Bill Nuckols: I thought my costume was cool.

How long were the shoots (both hours in a day and number of days)?

Bill Nuckols: Maybe six hours day for 7-10 days.

Did any onlookers call out to/interact with you in costume while shooting on location?

Garrett Craig: After makeup at 6 a.m., before I went across the street for the shoot, I thought I'd see if anybody would stop for a superhero. Some college girls wanted to know if I had the boots in size 6. And a [guy who almost hit me] hissed, "Get out of the street…and for God's sake, learn how to accessorize!" The prize for the morning, though, went to some very vogue woman in a Corvette who rolled down her window and said, "Sweetheart, I could have told you…computer dating sucks!"
Bill Nuckols: No, pretty much closed sets.

What was the hardest stunt in the shows (whether or not you were the one doing it)?

Garrett Craig: The production team stopped at a park in the Hollywood Hills. Carruthers ordered, "Camera here! Monitor here! Ladder there! Marvel, jump off the ladder! Look like you're flying into the scene." This time, there was a Teamster to plant the ladder. Carruthers said, "Third step, Marvel. Make it look real." I stood on the edge of the step, knowing there was no way to soft land. The jump felt forever. When I hit, absolutely nothing gave except my spine, which made a sound like a monster truck running over forty cases of Corn Flakes! The crew, actors, and audience all took a professional two-second beat so not to ruin the take, then collectively let out an anguished "Oooooouuu!"

Carruthers shouted, "Land like you're weightless, not like [you're] Stonehenge! And higher. The sixth step." Up to the top step on the ladder. [And then] suddenly, I was in horrifying freefall.

My boots bashed into the defiant dirt. I rolled up, then bounced into the air, my arms and legs shot out. I flopped to the ground like a deboned halibut into a cloud of flour.

After I slammed down, I can only report to you like the Apostle Paul, "Whether I was in the body or out, only God knows."
Bill Nuckols: When they were driving around the Batmobile.

What did you think of the storylines of the shows?

Garrett Craig: LOTS was supposed to be satire in satin shorts. Good comedy doesn't need to have a great plot. Only Shakespeare and people who have passed on need to have a plot. If you can cash in on the comedy of the characters and situations, the audience will forget about the mortgage on the plot.

I read some of the critiques: "Oooh, I say, what a frightful lack of story development. Like a carnival spinning out of control!" These guys are the same brain trust that nominate the Marx Brothers, W.C. Fields, and Laurel & Hardy as their standard of comic genius year after year. Which they are totally right about! Except they seem to have forgotten those plotlines made less sense than Yoko Ono videos.

You have to decide if you're making a picture about sense or nonsense! I even heard Chris Darley, one of the directors of LOTS, saying he forgets, it was so long ago, but LOTS was supposed to be a cartoon that morphed into a TV series that did a half gainer into a comedy. He didn't know what happened, but nobody was to blame. But isn't the director supposed to bring the compass?
Bill Nuckols: I thought they were pretty cool.

Were you starstruck by any of your fellow performers, and if so, which ones?

Garrett Craig: There were a lot of stars that I was thrilled to meet and work with: Ed McMahon, William Schallert, Burt Ward, Howard Morris, Frank Gorshin, Ruth Buzzi, Jeff Altman, and, of course, Adam West. From the producers to directors to cast, everyone, deservedly so, respected Adam. He was the best at what he did.

We sat next to each other as superheroes on "The Roast." Adam acted like we had been fishing buddies forever. During breaks, we talked about things we both enjoyed—fishing, movies, golf. I think sometimes when you are so successful in a role like Batman, people forget to see the real guy, the genuinely nice, humorous, and talented sides to your personality. He had a lot more in his utility belt than people let him show.
Rod Haase: No.
Bill Nuckols: I guess by Adam West and Burt Ward.

What do you remember about any of your fellow performers?

Garrett Craig: Burt Ward was daily amassing an empire. He was way ahead of his time. When he rolled onto the studio, his Lincoln actually became the first Transformer: "Optimus Retail Time." His trunk was like the Home Shopping Network—8x10s, shirts, memorabilia. He was good; before Adam West could finish his lunch, [Burt had] the sandwich wrapper, still warm, autographed and for sale in an 8x10" frame.

I painfully recall that Howard Murphy was much smarter than me. One day on the shoot, the AD walked up to Howard and me and asked if either of us could row a boat. Howard just blinked and stared blankly as if the AD had asked in Swahili, "Do you know how to make an Oompa-Loompa float?"

I, of course, saw my chance to flip Green Lantern like a turtle in the sun, and in a way-too-confident voice, said yes. I thought, this is too cool—I get camera time! I am going to score while Howard stands on the shore. Fifteen minutes later, I'm set to row Howard in a Super Race across the lake for the next thirty takes. (Howard was laughing loudly.)

In the meantime, I have told Howard to go to the bow of the boat so it will make it easier to row. What I didn't say was, easier to row backward and flip him into the water. Problem was, Howard the Lantern may [have used] light to transport himself but Howard the Person was not light to transport. The back rowing move failed and Howard said if I tried it again he would throw me overboard and watch laughing as the yellow voodoo boots took me to the bottom of the lake. In fact, I liked Howard, and if you're reading this "Lantern Boy," I hope you didn't get too tired standing in the boat while I rowed all day in the blazing sun!

Saying Charlie Callas (Sinestro) was a little Crazy is like saying a hurricane is a little distracting. Charlie had a face like Play-Doh in a Cuisinart. Faster than the Flash to 7-Eleven and back, Charlie would be doing these molten manic monologues complete with an outlandish library of his own sound effects.

Rod Haase was more careful. He wanted to make sure it got off at the right time. Rod was easy to hang with. He was very professional, liked everyone, and worked very well with the cast. We both wore red suits but Rod was really tall. Most of the time we never stood too close together in the red suits because the grips said we looked like King Kong's hemorrhoids. We joked a lot with each other and shot a lot of smack about who would get the most mail if this show flew. I didn't want to slam his ego too bad, but I had to remind him that if the ladies had a choice between two lightning bolts and one was named the Flash and the other was named Marvel, who do you think was going to get the date? Seriously, Rod was a very together guy; I knew he would do well with whatever he tried. And if he didn't, he could do it over again faster than anyone could see.

I think with the addition of [each additional] cast member to a production, like adding more people to a lifeboat, tends to lean more toward sinking than floating. Take William Schallert (Retired Man/Scarlet Cyclone). Individually, a true actor, but with so many other actors, we never got to see all the colors of his character. He had a lot of physical shtick to go with his addled comic delivery, but there was not enough time to develop the gags.

I have been on the sets of Laugh-In, Happy Days, Mork & Mindy, Barney Miller, and Moonlighting, and by and large with these very successful series it seemed to me their policy on ad-libs was "if it's funny, keep it…if it ain't, sweep it!"

One break, Adam was talking to Burt while the crew was setting up for a big explosion by Mordru. The assistant director came by with ear plugs, and not wanting to disturb Adam and Burt, he handed them all to me. I waited, and when Adam looked back to me, I held out the ear plugs. Adam [had a look like] "And what do you want me to do with those?" Keeping a sincere scientific tone, I said, "They're Ben Wa balls for our ears!" Adam generously thought I might have a chance in town if Carruthers didn't end up using me as a tent peg for the catering
canopy.

By the end of the day, we were exhausted and more than a little chafed from running around in suits that were tighter and more cramped than Donald Trump's money clip. I went over and crashed in a chair next to Adam. Panting, I asked, "How are you not experiencing spontaneous combustion?" Adam looked around like a black ops agent and whispered, "Silk. Silk lining in the Batsuit. No chafing. You should have wardrobe do it for you."

The next day in makeup, I slinked by Adam and said, "Good news, bad news." As usual, Adam squinted at me like a colorless Rubik's Cube. "Silk," I said. "Last night wardrobe cut out enough silk to line my suit. That's the good news. The bad news…they cut the silk from the parachute I'm supposed to use today for my jump." Adam smirked, "Don't worry. Even if the chute worked, the voodoo boots would have killed you. Besides, I'll get you a huge discount on the coffin now that you've already got the silk." You know what's better than being a superhero? Being a super nice guy. Thank you, Mr. West, for the memories.
Bill Nuckols: They all seemed professional, like they had worked in film before.

Was there any romance among actors that you know of?

Garrett Craig: I've never told this story, but I kissed Ruth Buzzi! Ruth had come in for a cameo as Aunt Minerva for "The Roast" and there was a scene where she was supposed to take control of me with a kiss. McMahon, Buzzi, and I are spiking lines back and forth to keep the comedy ball in play. To save himself, McMahon throws me under the bus and Buzzi is supposed to mack me and melt my face.

"Cut," Carruthers shouted. Through the laughter jumps Buzzi up under my chin, still with the gat in her hand, and says, "Do you not know how to kiss? Don't French kiss me!" Snap… I was so
focused on the scene, I did not even know I had not done a stage kiss.

"I'm sorry", I just got too into the part," I said. "Yes, yes, I know, I was there! You! Too into the part! No more parts! Don't make me remove the parts!" The gun wagged under my nose. Now I was way embarrassed, and so flushed, with the supersuit, I looked like a bright red glow stick.
Bill Nuckols: Not aware of any.

What did you get paid for appearing in LOTS?

Garrett Craig: The first day I found out everybody else was getting paid I went to Mr. Carruthers and asked him when I could get paid. Carruthers said, "Are you a good actor?" I said, "Yeah, I'm good." "Then act like you're getting paid!" And he finally laughed!

I went to my crack agent or my agent on crack—I can't remember how he introduced himself—and asked [when I'd get paid]. My agent said, "First they have to pick up the pilot. Then the series has to run three years successfully. Finally, if it goes into syndication, there will be more money than you can shake a stick at."
Rod Haase: I don't recall, but it wasn't much.
Bill Nuckols: $10,000.

Next: Legends of the Superheroes actors, part 2 of 2.

Super '70s and '80s: "Legends of the Superheroes"—Chris Darley, co-producer/associate director

Introduction to series "Super '70s and '80s."

Introduction to subseries "Legends of the Superheroes" (including list of interviewees).

What was your background before LOTS?

Directed game shows, live events. I had worked with [show director] Bill Carruthers for several years prior.

Before doing the show, what was your familiarity with these particular superhero characters?

Not very much, other than Batman and Robin. And I was always a fan of the comic books, not the TVshow.

How long were the shoots (both hours in a day and number of days)?

I think about 12-14 hours long and I believe between the two shows we shot for about five or six days.





Unless otherwise indicated, all photos courtesy of Barry Koeb.

What, if any, mistakes or accidents happened during the shoots?

No accidents…some retakes with stunt doubles but nothing unusual. The normal starts and stops.

This Black Canary is a stunt double.

What did you think of the storylines of the shows?

I don't believe any of us were very happy with the storylines but we were hindered by a severe time constraint and lack of money for this type of ambitious project. This whole concept was a last-minute substitute for another kind of project. I don't remember the original concept.


What do you remember about the performers (as many as possible)?

Adam and Burt were really cooperative and in the spirit. Frank Gorshin (Riddler) was amazing and funny. Some of the others were very young and had little prior experience, but all worked very hard. Ed McMahon was, as always, a delight.

What were your expectations for the shows?

I hoped for better than the shows received. Time slot and, as I said, budget both figured in. A lot of people worked very hard and I doubt anyone was totally pleased.

What did you do professionally after the shows?

I continued to direct live events, game shows, specials, etc., before retiring in 2006.

Did you stay in touch with any of the other cast or crew after the show?

No, other than Bill Carruthers and Joel Stein [one of the producers]. None of the actors.

Had you heard from writers (before me) about LOTS?

No.

What was your reaction when you heard why I wanted to interview you?

Surprised that anyone remembered those shows.

Did you know what a cult following LOTS has among fans today?

No, but again I'm surprised and very flattered. As I said, lots of people worked very hard on a project that was not easy to pull off, especially with the lack of special effects technology available at that time.

Any funny/unusual show anecdotes about LOTS that you didn't already address?

Not really. The taping of the jet ski sequence was fun and the comedians were great to work with.

Where do you live now?

Kentucky.

How do you look back at your experience on this show?

Very hard work. Difficult concept to pull off given the aforementioned constraints, but after all was said and done, it was a good learning experience for me, although I haven't thought about the shows in years…

Next: Legends of the Superheroes actors, part 1 of 2.

Super '70s and '80s: "Legends of the Superheroes"—introduction

Introduction to series "Super '70s and '80s."

In back-to-back weeks in January 1979, two hourlong, primetime, live-action superhero specials called Legends of the Superheroes aired on NBC; they were called "The Challenge" and "The Roast."




This Variety page was too big for one scan.

Produced by animation studio Hanna-Barbera, these shows have sometimes been described as a live-action version of Saturday morning cartoon Super Friends, which was near or at its peak of popularity at the time. Deliberately hokey to begin with, the shows were ratings failures and have dated even worse…which in part explains why they've become cult classics.

The character lineup included only two of the five mainstay Super Friends; rights to Superman and Wonder Woman were tied up in bigger and better ways and much-maligned Aquaman was probably not even considered.

Though Adam West and Burt Ward reprised their iconic 1960s roles as Batman and Robin and most of the villains were portrayed by established comedians of the day, I was more interested in talking to those performers whom we had not heard of before—or heard from since. Meaning just about everyone else in the cast.

The show featured the first live-action film portrayals of Flash, Green Lantern, Hawkman, Black Canary, Huntress, and Atom and the first-ever live-action portrayals of Hawkman, Huntress, and Atom (Flash, Green Lantern, and Black Canary were in the Sea World superheroes water ski show, which began in 1976).

This unused studio shot is especially charming because the two ladies at right
are laughing and Sinestro is sticking out his tongue.

Interesting to read "comic book heroes are very much in vogue."
We hear that a lot these days, but this article was written in 1979.
Also interesting to note that the superhero the paper chose to show was
the least well-known of the bunch. And I loved the zinger presuming
that Adam West and Burt Ward "evidently have decided to give up
their fight against typecasting."

Though these performers were superheroes only on TV, it felt like they were now operating under real-life secret identities. The easiest to find was Rod Haase (Flash). The hardest was everyone else (including two whom I have still not found).

In the first year of searching (sandwiched between more urgent projects), I found only Rod and Bill Nuckols (Hawkman).


Rod Haase today

Photos courtesy of Rod Haase and Bill Nuckols.

On that search, this is one tactic I tried with some of the performers (using Howard Murphy [Green Lantern] as an example): I sent a blanket e-mail to the most common e-mail formats (howardmurphy, howard.murphy, howard_murphy) at the biggest domains (gmail.com, yahoo.com, hotmail.com, aol.com, and so on...even juno.com, for heck's sake). I got some perplexed responses but none from the right people.

In January 2011, a year after I began my own personal "Challenge" to find these guys, I felt I was almost out of options. But rather than stick a fork in my "Roast," I decided to place an ad in Variety, figuring even as I did it that it was more than a long shot.

Within a couple of weeks of the ad running, I'd found both Garrett Craig (Captain Marvel) and Barbara Joyce (Huntress)…but the ad had nothing to do with it. I heard from no one in response to the ad.

And with Barbara, I was too late. More on her in her own post…

As with many others I tracked down for this blog series, the LOTS performers were astounded that someone would bother. None suspected that more than a handful of people would even remember the shows, and most answered my interview questions skeptical that anyone today would care about the answers. (Hence some of the responses are brief.)

The two I have failed to track down are Howard Murphy and Danuta Wesley (Black Canary).


Before we get to the interviews themselves, a bit more on two of the performers I did find.

How I found Bill Nuckols:

Thanks to Andy Mangels's article on this show in Back Issue #25 (12/07), I knew Bill had been a bodybuilder, so I poked around on bodybuilding forums.I contacted a person named Joe because he was clearly knowledgeable about bodybuilders of the 1970s, when Bill had been active in the scene.Joe wrote back. He didn't know where Bill was now but did pass on details from the two articles about Bill in his possession.I used those details to try to get closer, but to no avail.Joe then gave me names of three of Bill's former competitors; I e-mailed the two for whom I could find e-mails.The third is a Hollywood stuntman, and apparently a well-known one. SAG gave me his contact information and he most kindly shared what he remembered. The key piece of information was that Bill and his wife (whose name he remembered) had divorced and had no kids.I checked California divorce records, which gave me the hinge I needed: Bill's middle initial. (Yes, I, too, was surprised that there were more than one Bill Nuckols in the country.)Searching multiple public records databases, I found who I thought was my Bill Nuckols, but there was no contact information. However, the record listed names of relatives, and I could find a phone number for some of them. The first I called turned out to be Bill's mother.
She said "He doesn't look the same," but then, who would after 30 years? Through her, I was soon able to speak directly with Bill. Somewhat cautious at first, he said that when one comes from California (which he left in 1983), all kinds of people might come looking for you. Once I further explained myself, he opened up.

He lives a block from a comic shop and has never gone in there.

Finding Garrett Craig:

I got almost nothing out of SAG, as per protocol, but I was able to squeeze from them that mail had last been returned from Garrett's last known address in 1998 or so. I had to find him another way. However, SAG also mentioned that there were "significant funds" waiting for Garrett, and since they weren't looking for him, it made me all the more determined to find him.

I was prepared to accept no substitute for Garrett…until I learned he is a substitute. A resident sub at an elementary school, to be exact—and from what I can tell, one most beloved by students and staff alike.

Ultimately it was not a school but rather a former address that proved to be the vital link to Garrett. After finding him, I urged him to contact SAG…and he did…and was sent a check for $130.

So much for "significant."


Photos courtesy of Garrett Craig.

I have since had the good fortune to meet the saintly Garrett Craig in person.

In late 2010, Warner Bros. released the DVD of the show. None of the performers I've been in touch with heard from Warner beforehand, nor are any receiving residuals.

I got permission to post all personal images; if you want to repost, please do the same and ask me first.

Special thanks to Andy Mangels.

Welcome to the first-ever oral history of Legends of the Superheroes.

Production staff interviewed (1 part):

Chris Darley, co-producer/associate director

Performers interviewed (2 parts):

Garrett Craig (Captain Marvel)
Rod Haase (Flash)
Bill Nuckols (Hawkman)

In memoriam (1 part):

Barbara Joyce (Huntress)

Performers I'm still looking for:

Howard Murphy (Green Lantern)
Danuta Wesley (Black Canary)

Howard or Danuta or anyone who knows either of you: if you're reading this, no matter when, please contact me at the e-mail address at top right!

Super '70s and '80s: "Superman: The Movie"—Bo Rucker (pimp)

Introduction to series "Super '70s and '80s."

Introduction to subseries "Superman: The Movie" (including list of interviewees).

How did you get cast in Superman: The Movie?

Through an agent.

What was your thought when you heard it was Superman?

When you're in the business, you don't jump over broomsticks. You don't jump and down. You just go and give it a shot. You always believe you can do it.



What were you doing before that?

I was just starting out as an actor. I'd been studying acting. I met someone from an agency at the health club, a gym. I've worked out all my life. At the time I think I was doing an off-Broadway play. I was playing Bigger Thomas in Native Son. I was knocking down commercials. I used to do a lot of commercials—McDonald's, shaving. The money's very good in commercials. You get paid for 2-3 years for one commercial.

Was that your first film role?

Yes.

How many days were you on set?

About four days. They make sure you don't go nowhere. They might've paid for me the whole week just to have me on call.

Always at night?

My scene was at night.

Where was it filmed?

57th Street. The building has a big red "9" in front. Everyone had a trailer. A lot of time I'd be down on the set watching them shoot other stuff.

What did your family think about your involvement with something as famous as Superman?

I've always been very subtle. I'm a humble person. People usually don't know I did something till they see it on the screen or stage. Like when I've done Broadway, they learn from the reviews.

Do you still save reviews of your Broadway work?

Down there somewhere. I'm sure if I went digging I could find it. They keep reviews at the library at Lincoln Center. I did Streamers off-Broadway. I got a lot of play out of that. Native Son, I won a Theatre World Award. It was my first play!


Any anecdotes about filming STM?

The funniest part is people see you've got on this pimp uniform and people see you and actually think you're a pimp! There's always a lot of people watching. People asked me if I was smoking dope.

The casting people told you in advance that the role was a pimp?

I didn't know it was a pimp till I got there. I mean, I was excited to get it. They could have given me a rabbi and I would've played him. (laughs) I'm a student of life.

When they said it was a pimp, what was your reaction?

The casting director gives you a script to read to see what you can do with it. I thought there was something very funny about the line ["Say, Jim—whoo! That's a bad out-fit! Whoo!"]. I liked the way the line sounded. It was easy money.

The fact that they cast you as a pimp didn't bother you?

No, it didn't. Morgan Freeman was nominated for an Oscar for playing a pimp! In a movie with Christopher Reeve. And Terence Howard in Hustle and Flow. It could be a person negative to society, but [that can be a good] role.

What were you paid?

I don't remember but I still get residuals from it. They pop up with other stuff. Whenever they show it in Europe or on TV or on DVD. You don't get rich but you get a piece of the change.

Do you still have any props or other memorabilia (call sheets, correspondence, your contract, etc.) from the shoot?

No, I threw away a lot of scripts I had. Nobody thinks like that at that time.

Do you have any personal photographs from the shoot?

No.

Did you see the other Superman movies?

Yeah, I always did.

Did you attend the STM premiere in Washington DC? If so, what do you remember about it?

No, I didn't. I could've gone.

Do you remember why you didn't?

No, I don't. I probably went to the New York screening.

Did you make friends with anyone in the cast of STM?

No. You meet everybody. They have a cast party in a restaurant. But it was like different worlds meeting and partying and disappearing, like smoke.

Do you remember a cast party?

I remember going to dinner somewhere in New York.

What was Christopher Reeve like?

Our meetings were brief but he was a very humble, nice person. He loved what he was doing. He was into it.

Did you think he was doing a good job?

I thought it was a great role for somebody. He was tall. They had a brand they were promoting and he fit the bill.

Did you ever see him after the movie was done?

I just missed him in Wurtsboro, New York. There's a little airport up there and he had a little German-built fiberglass glider there that cost $30,000, like in The Thomas Crown Affair. I used to go up there but I wasn't a pilot. You'd pay and they'd take you up. The pilot that I went up with once told me that Christopher Reeve was just there.

Did the pilot know you were in STM?

No, I didn't mention it to him.

Even after he mentioned Christopher Reeve?

I didn't mention it.

You really are modest! Has anyone else interviewed you about STM?

I don't think so.

Have any strangers ever recognized you from STM?

People recognize you from anything. [For example:] "I know you from [1996 ABC Afterschool Special] Daddy's Girl."

But has anyone recognized you from STM recently?

No. How many years ago was that?

More than thirty. Where would people have recognized you?

In the gym, on the street, in your building. [mentions something about Law and Order]

Were you on Law and Order?

I think every actor in New York was on it.

Do you have children?

I have two children. [he did not want to reveal more]

What do they think of your link to Superman?

They know everything I've been in. They saw it a long time ago.

But if they saw it for the first time as kids, were they excited?

They said "That's my daddy!"

Some of the friends you've made in your life must have seen you in STM before you met them. Any funny stories about that?

That would happen. People would even say "I didn't even know you acted." Now I'm working on some writing. Other than that, I keep on a low profile.

What kind of writing?

It'll probably be a novel or a script.

For adults or kids?

Not for young kids.

Where do you live now?

I lived in New York then and still do. I still have the same phone number.

What do you like to do when not working?

I like camping. I like long walks in the woods. I got what I call my shack in upstate New York. Door-to-door two hours from the city. It's not deep in the woods. But it looks like a lot of property. You see mountains in the distance. Black bears, deer, possums, foxes, coyotes show up back there. I think I saw a bobcat! I took my samurai sword with me. I don't carry guns. I followed him on tiptoe. He came back and had a groundhog in his mouth. I like watching birds of prey. I have a lot of bird houses up in the woods. I got to meet a lot of birds. I learn through osmosis. You start to feed them and then you by a book. I like horseback riding. I used to ride in Manhattan at a stable before they closed it. I like motorcycles.

What do you do for a living now?

Personal fitness. Privately at people's homes and gyms in the apartment buildings.

How do you market yourself?

I don't really market. It's word of mouth. I would never get rich from it.

What did you think when you heard why I was contacting you?

I kept trying to understand. I thought there must be some ulterior motive. This sounded too easy, too good to be true. I don't like to filet myself. (laughs) That makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't know you [so I was wary to agree to an interview].

Hopefully you feel differently now!

I'm trying to. (laughs)

What do you think when I say a lot of Superman fans really want to know what's going with you?

It's hard to fathom that. That's mind-blowing if that's true.

Would you be open to attending a comics convention as a guest to meet fans?

I would.

[I then expressed gratitude for his time, especially since I know he went outside his comfort zone to do this; I said I owe him lunch]

You don't owe me anything. When I'm driving if I see someone who needs help, I stop. They always want to give you money but I don't take it. I say, "If you see anyone stranded, you stop and help him. That's all I want you to do."

Spoken like a Superman...

Next: Legends of the Superheroes.

Super '70s and '80s: "Superman: The Movie"—Jeff East (Clark Kent as a teenager)

Introduction to series "Super '70s and '80s."

Introduction to subseries "Superman: The Movie" (including list of interviewees).

How did you get cast in Superman: The Movie?

I was cast by Richard Donner in April 1977 at Lynn Stallmaster's office in Los Angeles. Richard had seen me star in a film called The Hazing and he had me come in and cast me on the spot.

What was the first movie you were in?

Tom Sawyer (1973) with Johnny Whitaker and Jody Foster. I was Huck Finn.

Before filming STM, what did you want to do for a living? Did you change your mind after filming it?

I have been an actor since I was 14.

What do you remember about filming your scenes?

I was uncomfortable with the wig and nose piece at first, but eventually got used to it. It was fun to travel to London to shoot and Canada as well.

Where were your scenes shot?

London and Calgary.

If it was an actual location, not a set, have you been back there since?

I have not been back.

Do you know how many days your shoot was?

I was on the film from April through October 1977.

What was your impression of Christopher Reeve?

Chris Reeve and I got along okay. I would say it was a professional respect for each other but he was a little uneasy having another person playing him at a young age.

Any funny, scary, or just odd stories from the set? Did you hang out with the other actors at night/when not shooting?

Lana Lang and I had a fling.

Did you pay much attention to Superman before you worked on the movie?

Not really.

Did you like him after?

Yes, very much. I was always a fan of the TV series with George Reeves.

Did you see the other movies?

I have seen the other films and I think STM is still the best-made.

Lots of actors who've done superhero movies or shows go on to do voice-overs in superhero cartoons. Have you, or would you?

I have done some voice-overs. In 1983, I did the singing voice for Meatball in [the cartoon] Meatballs and Spaghetti for CBS.

Did you ever correspond with anyone else from the cast of STM at any point?

I am still good friends with Marc McClure and Jack O'Halloran and Sara Douglas and Valerie Perrine.

Did you ever meet Christopher Reeve?

Chris and I spent a lot of time together on the film so I could get to know his personal traits.

Were there ever any cast reunions?

There was a 30-year reunion Warner Bros. held for the DVD distribution.

When/who else has interviewed you on STM? Were you ever interviewed on TV?

Merv Griffin.

Have any strangers ever recognized you as the young Clark from STM?

Yes.

Do you have children? If so, have they seen you in STM? What do they think?

I have two children, Alexander and Madison. They both love the film and their friends get a kick out of it.

Did you see Superman Returns? Did you watch Smallville? If yes to either, what do you think?

I did not like Superman Returns and I have watched Smallville. It's a good show. John Schneider is a friend.

Do you ever still act? If not, do you want to?

I am still acting and I am producing as well. I am currently producing a remake of the film Macon Country Line.

Would you be open to attending a comics convention as a guest to meet fans?

I have done [a couple of comic conventions] and yes, I would be interested in doing more.

Next: Bo Rucker (pimp/fashion consultant).

Super '70s and '80s: "Superman: The Movie"—Aaron Smolinski (Kal-El as a toddler)

Introduction to series "Super '70s and '80s."

Introduction to subseries "Superman: The Movie" (including list of interviewees).

[NOTE: Interview conducted 12/09. Special thanks to Jason Thomas for scanning and sending the images and to Aaron, of course, for providing them in the first place.]

How did you get cast in Superman: The Movie?

They had a big casting call and my aunt called my mom and told her about it. So down we went and waited in line. My brother was chosen first as the six-year-old (never made the cut) and I was the second choice for the part. On set, the first choice did not cooperate and I did, so they used me. They had to dye my hair because I was a blonde.




Was it the first movie you were in?

This was the first movie I was in.

What is your first memory of the whole experience?

I remember most of it, but I think my first memory is getting on the bus at the gas station to go to the location.

What else do you remember about filming your scenes?

I remember a lot. Richard Donner was great. He would wrap me in a blanket between takes, let me talk in his walkie-talkie, show me his trailer. I remember having lunch in the tent, hanging around in the "ship" as they were lighting. I remember my arms being soar from holding them up.





Where were your outdoor scenes shot?

They were filmed in Blackie, Alberta, Canada.

Do you know how many days your shoot was?

It was about eight or nine days.

Do you know what your parents thought about you having to stand under the truck? Were they worried?

I think they were. My mum more than my dad. I think afterwards they were like "what were we thinking letting him stand under a truck?"


Do you remember what the filmmakers and/or your parents explained to you before shooting? Did you understand the story you were a part of?

I don't remember them really explaining it. I remember just doing what I was told. And was happy to do it.

Do you have any "regular" anecdotes you've told friends over the years about filming STM?

Well, [they had to bargain with me] to come out of the capsule. I was shy and didn't really want to come out naked, so they had to bribe me. They first gave me a snow globe (which I still have). That didn't work so they asked what I wanted. I said a six-pack of Coke, so out that came. Then I still wasn't convinced so they asked again. "Juicy Fruit gum," I said. They obliged and here I came in my full glory.

There is also a blooper where Ma Kent says "He doesn't have any family" and then I say "Yes I do." That is why she ended up saying not around here anyway, because she went with it. Every time she said I didn't have any family, I kept saying [I did]; my mom and dad were there. She went with it but Mr. Ford wasn't so amused.

Since you were a boy when you filmed STM, did you get any special treatment on set? Or after? Lots of Superman action figures from Warner Bros., or anything like that?

The only special treatment I received was from Richard Donner and the cast and crew. Warner Bros. screwed me and gave me nothing (including residuals). But I am not bitter. In all fairness, Warner Bros. wasn't involved at that time (at least I don't think they were).

Have you ever approached them to renegotiate?

No, but may try.

Do you still have any props or other memorabilia (call sheets, correspondence, your contract, etc.) from the shoot?

I still have my contract (or lack thereof), the snow globe, and I am sure my mom has other stuff.

Do you know if your parents were instantly okay with your onscreen nudity? Today, of course, a superhero movie (or most any mainstream movie) would probably not show a naked child. What do you think about the way our cultural sensibility has changed in that regard?

Back then there wasn't as much cynicism as there is now. They were cautious, but not like people would be today. I mean, I was only three. I think our culture is overly sensitive, but you can never be too careful. Now when it airs on TV they don't show that part, which I am not sure why I haven't objected to it. You can go online and see those images or buy the movie, so…? I think if I was five or older, then I would agree, but I was basically a baby. To each his own. I do think that times are very different and we actually have to protect children now. They can't protect themselves. Not sure if this answers your question. I may respond more to this.

What if any disapproval have you personally heard about the fact that STM showed a boy naked?

The only disapproval I hear now is that they don't show it anymore. People, fans, say that was a big part of the scene and they think WB is being over protective.

Do you remember hearing what happened to the boy who played the baby in STM?

Lee Quigley, passed away. I never met him.

Do you remember if you liked Superman before you worked on the movie?

I don't think I really knew much about him.

Did you like him after?

I liked him, but wasn't obsessed.

Did you see the other movies?

I did see the other movies. They used the same scene for Superman II (which they didn't pay me for), and then I was in Superman III (kid at the photo booth. The lady who played my mom was my mom). I have seen them all.

Did you read Superman comics?

No.

Did you attend the STM premiere?

NO.

Lots of actors who've done superhero movies or shows go on to do voice-overs in superhero cartoons? Have you, or would you?

Haven't but would love to.

Did you ever correspond with anyone else from the cast of STM at any point?

I did speak with Richard Donner when I moved to LA.

Did you ever meet Christopher Reeve?

I met him during the filming of Superman III. The first thing I remember is shaking his hand and mine disappearing. He had such big hands (at least to an 8-year-old). He would also sit with me and all the extras and crew during lunch, which the other cast members wouldn't do. He was someone I looked up to. During my acting career, I was always loyal to my "fans" and never turned away from them. I am a firm believer that they are the reason actors can work and get paid for what they do. I think this came from my personality, but also from Christopher Reeve.


Were there ever any cast reunions?

I think so, but I was never invited. I think WB was trying to keep me on the low knowing that they kinda took advantage of me and my family. That's a story on its own.

When/who else has interviewed you about STM? Were you ever interviewed on TV?

I think I did a radio interview during Superman III. I was never interviewed on TV.


Have any strangers ever recognized you as the young boy from STM?

No…not without knowing that was me.

You're a father now. How old are your children? (Depending on that answer, have they seen you in STM? What do they think?)

My son is two and he has seen it. He is too young to really have an opinion, but thinks it is neat.

Most of the friends you've made in your life must have seen you in STM before you met them. Any funny stories about that?

They all make fun of the naked scene and say, "I hope things have changed…" To that I have a rebuttal…which I will keep to myself.

Did you see Superman Returns? Did you watch Smallville? If yes to either, what do you think?

Thought Superman Returns was better than I thought it would be. I didn't really watch Smallville.

The producers of Smallville often cast actors associated with past Superman or superhero TV shows. Were you approached?

[Actually], I was up for a part in the pilot—a friend of Clark's. Other than [that], I never auditioned [nor was I] approached. People told me all the time that I needed to get on it.

What do you do for a living now?

I am still plugging away, writing, acting, and hopefully producing a script I have. But the best job of all is being a husband and father.

Next: Jeff East (Clark Kent as a teenager).