Zeljana’s answer to “What does it mean when someone"spoke in dialect", or in "thick dialect"? I understand that the book…” > Likes and Comments
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Thank you for the explanation Zeljana. I guess I don't understand why it is necessary for us as the reader to know when they are using dialect?
Laura, as Zeljana says, dialect signals that they are lower class, a central element of the theme. Seeing when the characters switch into Italian and then back into dialect tells you a lot about their education (as when someone can't express himself adequately in Italian or isn't comfortable saying certain types of things in it), and you see the class and power dynamic between that person and the ones who can speak Italian better. AT the end, Elena with her superior education is already feeling she must get out of the neighborhood and separate herself from the people she grew up with, and she isn't even in college yet. I haven't read the next book yet, but I bet this will affect her friendship with Lina and certainly her relationship with her family.
That's interesting. How then is dialect a metaphor for class? Is it that lower-class people in 1950s Naples didn't learn Italian well enough to speak it fluently? I've read all the books now and my impression is that being able to speak Italian well was a sign of being well educated and all that went with it.
Thanks so much for this! As a writer myself I love learning these details of language.
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Laura
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Jan 07, 2016 05:31AM
Thank you for the explanation Zeljana. I guess I don't understand why it is necessary for us as the reader to know when they are using dialect?
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Laura, as Zeljana says, dialect signals that they are lower class, a central element of the theme. Seeing when the characters switch into Italian and then back into dialect tells you a lot about their education (as when someone can't express himself adequately in Italian or isn't comfortable saying certain types of things in it), and you see the class and power dynamic between that person and the ones who can speak Italian better. AT the end, Elena with her superior education is already feeling she must get out of the neighborhood and separate herself from the people she grew up with, and she isn't even in college yet. I haven't read the next book yet, but I bet this will affect her friendship with Lina and certainly her relationship with her family.
No, it is not a class issue, although in the book it is a metaphor for class. Everyone from any particular area speaks dialect, not as a sign of belonging, but because that's the language they learned. Ticinese, for instance, from the Italian speaking part of Switzerland, is much different from Italian. Children learn Italian from the first grade and German as well. At breakfast the bank president, the brain surgeon and the carpenter all speak Ticinese. They do so at work as well. Or German.
That's interesting. How then is dialect a metaphor for class? Is it that lower-class people in 1950s Naples didn't learn Italian well enough to speak it fluently? I've read all the books now and my impression is that being able to speak Italian well was a sign of being well educated and all that went with it.
Read the last part of the wedding scene. As Lenu begins to realize that she is setting herself apart from her background, she also begins to think that she needs better educated friends. She leans towards men who speak standard Italian. I suspect that the following books, if I read them, will show that she finds this at some point wrong, but as she is a bit of a narcisist, who knows.
It's not that the people of the 1950's didn't learn Italian well enough, but that some left school after the primary or even before that. Your path in Europe is determined by the time you are about 10 years old. You either take a track towards an academic or business career or into the trades, The academic track is usually the "Middle School" as it is in this book..essentially junior high. There are trade schools and business schools, usually more clerical and directed to posts in hospitality, and there are apprenticeships, which may or may not at that time have accompanied the trade schools (fine mechanic like watch maker, cook, carpenter, etc). Furthermore some did not continue school but went into the family business, as did most of Lila's friends and circle. Your Italian (which is the normal language of places like Turin and Florence, I believe) would be more polished with more education, but Italian is taught at the lower levels and anyone working in an atellier can speak to you in Italian. They just wouldn't converse. I taught college level in Europe and we would never have considered speaking anything but dialect in the teachers' lounge.
It's not that the people of the 1950's didn't learn Italian well enough, but that some left school after the primary or even before that. Your path in Europe is determined by the time you are about 10 years old. You either take a track towards an academic or business career or into the trades, The academic track is usually the "Middle School" as it is in this book..essentially junior high. There are trade schools and business schools, usually more clerical and directed to posts in hospitality, and there are apprenticeships, which may or may not at that time have accompanied the trade schools (fine mechanic like watch maker, cook, carpenter, etc). Furthermore some did not continue school but went into the family business, as did most of Lila's friends and circle. Your Italian (which is the normal language of places like Turin and Florence, I believe) would be more polished with more education, but Italian is taught at the lower levels and anyone working in an atellier can speak to you in Italian. They just wouldn't converse. I taught college level in Europe and we would never have considered speaking anything but dialect in the teachers' lounge.
Thanks so much for this! As a writer myself I love learning these details of language.
