Lois’s answer to “Mark's my absolute favorite character of the series, and I've got a question about his psychology. …” > Likes and Comments
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So glad Mark has fans! But no, I don't plan anything more with him at this time.
Interestingly, his characterization got a brief mention in an article in a tome about the philosophy of psychology... (checks shelves) The Oxford Handbook of Philosophy and Psychiatry (2013), a curious juxtaposition of subjects. Chapter 53, "Personal Identity and Identity Disorders" by Stephen R. L. Clark.
Ta, L.
Oh, I'll go check it out! Thank you so much for letting me know! :D
~Michelle
I can't believe I didn't ask the following question in my original message. I think I had vacation brain before because I was out of state at the start of this thread.
When it comes to love, does Mark love anyone outside of Kareen? Is what he feels for Miles and their parents love, per se? It's obvious he LIKES them, but I'd be curious where Mark stands on the relationships with his family.
Also, does he still employ Enrique?
Michelle, I feel like you do about Mark, he's definitely one of the most fascinating characters I've ever read. He's also incredibly real to me - his struggle and dysfunctional relationship with food and weight in Mirror Dance reminds me so vividly of certain times in my life.
Lois, thanks for answering Michelle's questions and also pointing out Mark's appearence in The Oxford Handbook of Philosophy and Psychiatry!
Kate, thanks for sharing! :) I identify with him too in certain ways, though those ways are difficult to share without sounding crazy. I remember not trusting Mark at first when I read Mirror Dance the first time, but then I loved getting to know him and related to him. I'm now fiercely protective of him. Haha! Remember when Kou called Mark a mistake in A Civil Campaign? I like Kou, but that made me want to jump through the page and give him a good smack.
I'm not sure if Ms. Bujold saw my other question I posted above your comment. Hopefully she will. Mark is very intriguing to me, and I love discussing him. Thanks for commenting!
I know what you mean about difficult to share without sounding crazy :)
My favourite Mark scene is the one in Mirror Dance where Cordelia and Aral are discussing him in the library not knowing that he's there and can hear them. I love his internal thoughts which accompany their conversation, and also his realisation about what integrity actually is.
It must be so incredibly hard for someone with his screwed up upbringing to integrate into "normal" society (whatever normal is of course YMMV!!), and I think that Lois does an incredible job of writing someone who has been broken, but who starts to put himself back together. Of course, Kareen is very helpful. I do sometimes wonder what she sees in Mark that others don't because they can't hear his internal monologue.
Thanks for replying Michelle :)
That's a good scene! I'm unsure which scene is my favorite, honestly. I adore him so much. To this day though, I cry at his time with Ryoval, though I think that was a very important element in him becoming who he is. I think it made perfect sense that it brought a kind of calmness within him after all of that happened. Whereas I'm not glad it happened to him, I'm glad he turned himself around and did well for himself. I, too, think Kareen is very helpful and would love to see maybe a side story about their relationship. I think they make quite an interesting couple. I'm not holding my breath for that side story, but we'll see what happens.
Remember the dinner party in A Civil Campaign? I can't help but cringe and laugh at Kou's reaction, but I also cheer for Mark's progress.
Wow, there's so much I want to say, but I'm unsure how protected this thread is when it comes to spoilers. When I asked my question, I marked it as having spoilers, but I'm unsure how that effects what people see. I'm brand new to Goodreads.
Oh yes, the dinner party, that makes me cringe but also howl with laughter every time! You can just imagine the expressions on everyone's faces and the silence spreading out across the table!!!
Goodreads is great, I use it to keep up with a couple of good friends who read similar books and also to keep tabs on what I've read (and also to review stuff), and look for new and interesting things to read. As far as spoilers go, I think that it's polite to stick one in with your question, but if people have read this far down the comments, they probably know the books!
ME at June 30 --
Sorry for the belated reply; it's been a busy couple of weeks, plus the first half of your question was hard to figure out how to answer.
Yes, Mark still employs Enrique, who is doing very well -- some geeks age into assurance and couth, and he's one of that sort.
To answer the first half, one would have to define "love" in all its possible permutations. Mark cares about his family, in his own Markian way.
(I also suspect that Kareen had an unconscious fat fetish which, brought out into the open and thoroughly examined and explained during their time on Beta, will not ambush either one of them henceforth. Mark is not the only one of that pair who's a bit squirrely, but Kareen has way more natural advantages as far as "passing" goes. I never committed to this notion in text, though, so it remains an optional speculation, for those who find entertainment in psychoanalyzing fictional constructs. All of the pleasures of gossip with none of the guilt!)
Ta, L.
Lois, thanks so much for expanding (pun not intended) on the Mark and Kareen relationship. I did wonder whether she rather liked a certain aspect of the Black Gang - there are definitely hints of it in A Civil Campaign, especially when she's disappointed that he's lost so much weight via the Duronas' clinic in Escobar.
And yes, it must be easier for Kareen to pass, after all her fetish isn't visible on her, unlike Mark.
Love this conversation, thanks so much Lois and Michelle, it's made my evening :)
Kate and Lois, I'll mark my responses below.
Kate - I laugh too! My best friend and I love dinner scenes, and in A Civil Campaign, that one has to be at the top of the list of my favorites! I love how various authors handle disastrous dinner parties. :D
THAT'S true, that those who have read the series are probably the only ones who have read this far down. And if you ever want to discuss Mark further, feel free to message me. :) CAN you private message people on here? I haven't found anything that allow for that, but maybe I'm missing something.
Lois - That's okay!
I'm glad Enrique is still employed with Mark. I love their working relationship. Enrique is adorable in his own way, but I must say that my favorite part in ACC with him was when Aral witnessed Enrique looking for the butter bugs, and as Enrique is looking he looks under something and asks, "Buggy buggy?" *LOL* I laugh so much at that image!
As far as Mark and love, I'm sort of under the impression his love might be... different from what others feel. I'm really not sure how to say it better than that. I guess your way of explaining it IS the best way - he loves in his own Markian way.
And I'm soooo tempted to ask what might be an embarrassing question about him, but I'm unsure if I should or not. *LOL* Do people sometimes ask you embarrassing questions about your characters? Well, I guess the topic itself isn't embarrassing. What might be embarrassing is if I ask it.
Michelle, have sent you a message, I don't know if you'd get email notification, so thought I'd let you know here.
Got it! :)
And I can't believe I forgot to mention the Kareen stuff! D: (Well, really, after going to the neurologist today, I can given what I learned - I suffer from migraines/headaches, and certain mental faculties are effected. Bleh.)
I'm so glad we now have insight into Kareen too! I wouldn't have pegged her as having a fat fetish, but hey, it works out! I love getting insight into characters that would be expressly in the books! <3 I so love Mark and Kareen together!
Lois, count me as a Mark fan too!
I've occasionally thought that his business / Jacksonian expertise might make him an interesting alternate Auditor if Miles is no longer suitable. I've also wondered if he might ever trade in his fat for muscles as a different way to distinguish himself from Miles (but your answer upthread about Kareen seems to make that unlikely).
I'd think making him a more muscular version of Miles wouldn't make as much sense. If he's overweight, seeing both Miles and Mark from a distance would be easier to distinguish who from who. IMO. And whereas I'm no sniper or trained in any way Mark is, maybe he took being seen at a distance into consideration? I'm not sure Kareen would be too keen on him losing the weight either. ;)
Ah, I love Mark and Kareen together. <3
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So glad Mark has fans! But no, I don't plan anything more with him at this time.Interestingly, his characterization got a brief mention in an article in a tome about the philosophy of psychology... (checks shelves) The Oxford Handbook of Philosophy and Psychiatry (2013), a curious juxtaposition of subjects. Chapter 53, "Personal Identity and Identity Disorders" by Stephen R. L. Clark.
Ta, L.
Oh, I'll go check it out! Thank you so much for letting me know! :D ~Michelle
I can't believe I didn't ask the following question in my original message. I think I had vacation brain before because I was out of state at the start of this thread.When it comes to love, does Mark love anyone outside of Kareen? Is what he feels for Miles and their parents love, per se? It's obvious he LIKES them, but I'd be curious where Mark stands on the relationships with his family.
Also, does he still employ Enrique?
Michelle, I feel like you do about Mark, he's definitely one of the most fascinating characters I've ever read. He's also incredibly real to me - his struggle and dysfunctional relationship with food and weight in Mirror Dance reminds me so vividly of certain times in my life.Lois, thanks for answering Michelle's questions and also pointing out Mark's appearence in The Oxford Handbook of Philosophy and Psychiatry!
Kate, thanks for sharing! :) I identify with him too in certain ways, though those ways are difficult to share without sounding crazy. I remember not trusting Mark at first when I read Mirror Dance the first time, but then I loved getting to know him and related to him. I'm now fiercely protective of him. Haha! Remember when Kou called Mark a mistake in A Civil Campaign? I like Kou, but that made me want to jump through the page and give him a good smack.I'm not sure if Ms. Bujold saw my other question I posted above your comment. Hopefully she will. Mark is very intriguing to me, and I love discussing him. Thanks for commenting!
I know what you mean about difficult to share without sounding crazy :) My favourite Mark scene is the one in Mirror Dance where Cordelia and Aral are discussing him in the library not knowing that he's there and can hear them. I love his internal thoughts which accompany their conversation, and also his realisation about what integrity actually is.
It must be so incredibly hard for someone with his screwed up upbringing to integrate into "normal" society (whatever normal is of course YMMV!!), and I think that Lois does an incredible job of writing someone who has been broken, but who starts to put himself back together. Of course, Kareen is very helpful. I do sometimes wonder what she sees in Mark that others don't because they can't hear his internal monologue.
Thanks for replying Michelle :)
That's a good scene! I'm unsure which scene is my favorite, honestly. I adore him so much. To this day though, I cry at his time with Ryoval, though I think that was a very important element in him becoming who he is. I think it made perfect sense that it brought a kind of calmness within him after all of that happened. Whereas I'm not glad it happened to him, I'm glad he turned himself around and did well for himself. I, too, think Kareen is very helpful and would love to see maybe a side story about their relationship. I think they make quite an interesting couple. I'm not holding my breath for that side story, but we'll see what happens.Remember the dinner party in A Civil Campaign? I can't help but cringe and laugh at Kou's reaction, but I also cheer for Mark's progress.
Wow, there's so much I want to say, but I'm unsure how protected this thread is when it comes to spoilers. When I asked my question, I marked it as having spoilers, but I'm unsure how that effects what people see. I'm brand new to Goodreads.
Oh yes, the dinner party, that makes me cringe but also howl with laughter every time! You can just imagine the expressions on everyone's faces and the silence spreading out across the table!!! Goodreads is great, I use it to keep up with a couple of good friends who read similar books and also to keep tabs on what I've read (and also to review stuff), and look for new and interesting things to read. As far as spoilers go, I think that it's polite to stick one in with your question, but if people have read this far down the comments, they probably know the books!
ME at June 30 --Sorry for the belated reply; it's been a busy couple of weeks, plus the first half of your question was hard to figure out how to answer.
Yes, Mark still employs Enrique, who is doing very well -- some geeks age into assurance and couth, and he's one of that sort.
To answer the first half, one would have to define "love" in all its possible permutations. Mark cares about his family, in his own Markian way.
(I also suspect that Kareen had an unconscious fat fetish which, brought out into the open and thoroughly examined and explained during their time on Beta, will not ambush either one of them henceforth. Mark is not the only one of that pair who's a bit squirrely, but Kareen has way more natural advantages as far as "passing" goes. I never committed to this notion in text, though, so it remains an optional speculation, for those who find entertainment in psychoanalyzing fictional constructs. All of the pleasures of gossip with none of the guilt!)
Ta, L.
Lois, thanks so much for expanding (pun not intended) on the Mark and Kareen relationship. I did wonder whether she rather liked a certain aspect of the Black Gang - there are definitely hints of it in A Civil Campaign, especially when she's disappointed that he's lost so much weight via the Duronas' clinic in Escobar. And yes, it must be easier for Kareen to pass, after all her fetish isn't visible on her, unlike Mark.
Love this conversation, thanks so much Lois and Michelle, it's made my evening :)
Kate and Lois, I'll mark my responses below.Kate - I laugh too! My best friend and I love dinner scenes, and in A Civil Campaign, that one has to be at the top of the list of my favorites! I love how various authors handle disastrous dinner parties. :D
THAT'S true, that those who have read the series are probably the only ones who have read this far down. And if you ever want to discuss Mark further, feel free to message me. :) CAN you private message people on here? I haven't found anything that allow for that, but maybe I'm missing something.
Lois - That's okay!
I'm glad Enrique is still employed with Mark. I love their working relationship. Enrique is adorable in his own way, but I must say that my favorite part in ACC with him was when Aral witnessed Enrique looking for the butter bugs, and as Enrique is looking he looks under something and asks, "Buggy buggy?" *LOL* I laugh so much at that image!
As far as Mark and love, I'm sort of under the impression his love might be... different from what others feel. I'm really not sure how to say it better than that. I guess your way of explaining it IS the best way - he loves in his own Markian way.
And I'm soooo tempted to ask what might be an embarrassing question about him, but I'm unsure if I should or not. *LOL* Do people sometimes ask you embarrassing questions about your characters? Well, I guess the topic itself isn't embarrassing. What might be embarrassing is if I ask it.
Michelle, have sent you a message, I don't know if you'd get email notification, so thought I'd let you know here.
Got it! :)And I can't believe I forgot to mention the Kareen stuff! D: (Well, really, after going to the neurologist today, I can given what I learned - I suffer from migraines/headaches, and certain mental faculties are effected. Bleh.)
I'm so glad we now have insight into Kareen too! I wouldn't have pegged her as having a fat fetish, but hey, it works out! I love getting insight into characters that would be expressly in the books! <3 I so love Mark and Kareen together!
Lois, count me as a Mark fan too!I've occasionally thought that his business / Jacksonian expertise might make him an interesting alternate Auditor if Miles is no longer suitable. I've also wondered if he might ever trade in his fat for muscles as a different way to distinguish himself from Miles (but your answer upthread about Kareen seems to make that unlikely).
I'd think making him a more muscular version of Miles wouldn't make as much sense. If he's overweight, seeing both Miles and Mark from a distance would be easier to distinguish who from who. IMO. And whereas I'm no sniper or trained in any way Mark is, maybe he took being seen at a distance into consideration? I'm not sure Kareen would be too keen on him losing the weight either. ;) Ah, I love Mark and Kareen together. <3
I'm doubtful, but do you see a novella or something about what Mark is doing, or should I not hold my breath? Each time a book is released, I look forward to being with other characters again, but a part of me alwats peeks in and says, "Mark? Mark? Will he be there too?" ;)
~Michelle