Ruth’s answer to “Anyone finished who wants to discuss the ending? I am still not sure how I feel about it, am rumin…” > Likes and Comments
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Thank you so much for your detailed thoughts! I loved reading this
Of course! Thanks for posing the question! It's the first one I looked for when finishing the novel yesterday, lol, b/c I do think it's more ambiguous than the author meant it to be (based on an interview I read) ... and then, maddeningly, rather than saying: "she ends up with __," she just said, paraphrased, "go back and read the last paragraph really carefully." sigh.
Ruth, thank you for your thoughts! I had forgotten about the "you don't know if you'll regret the swim if you don't take it" line from Wallace. I think you summed everything up perfectly. Thanks again!
Thank you for this, I too have be looking all over for peoples thoughts and opinions. This is a beautiful explanation of it. So thank you for taking the time to write this. To speak to your first point, I think Elle sacrificed a part of herself for her mom and Wallace's happiness. In a way at the end I felt as if Wallace was saying it is time that Elle put her own happiness before her mother's and do something for her.
I do agree, I don't like how she lied and the comment about being with Jonas would be like incest... I could have done without that.
Sure thing, Jessica and Rachel!
LOL re: the incest comment, Rachel, and I *completely* agree.
I think one of the reasons we feel so "off" about the ending ... or, at least I did ... is that we got only the idea of the resolution rather than the resolution itself.
I *hate* that the last image we have of Jonas (other than that waiting silhouette) is of him being all pale and heartbroken b/c Elle won't take the ring. And then we get that awful incest comment, which we KNOW isn't true.
It would have been nice to be able to share Jonas's joy and Peter's ... well ... validation, at least, since deep down, he knows what he saw b/t Jonas and Elle (i.e., love and longing).
I re-read the pages/parts of just the "day" and feel she chose Jonas. Once Rosemary told Elle about Conrad, I feel that released Elle to go with her life long feeling s for Jonas.
Rosie: agreed! Elle seems to feel like she has to punish herself for Conrad's death, and she does that by denying herself Jonas. Once her frame of mind changes, and she starts to think of herself as Rosemary's rescuer, she is able to be with the man she loves, fully.
Ruth, thank you so much. I was going crazy with no one to discuss the ending with and I agree with you but you put it so much better than I could in my head,
Excellent commentary. Thank you. You have helped me clarify this ending. Finished it before bed last night and couldn’t stop thinking about it. I agree with everything you said. 😃
Ruth, you mention a point I didn't consider when you wrote, "but, in the end, walking out and facing the very natural gravitational pull towards her soulmate is the necessary and brave thing to do." Her mother's message throughout Elle's life is that we're not cowards.. we face truth head on.
No problem, Mary Jean & Victoria! Thanks for your sweet comments. :-)
Marilyn: yes! Great point! When I went back and re-read "the day," I was struck by how observant and intuitive her mother was. She knew what was going on well before their talk, as only mothers do. ;-)
I did not get that at all. i thought for sure she ended up with Peter because she could not bear to hurt him & the kids. It was too late for Jonas even though they had resolved the guilt they both felt.
She stays with her husband & family, the decision was already made. Heller just threw in the wedding ring at the last second to get people talking about the book.
Yeah, I don't think so, Marian and James ... It feels to me very much like a retelling of Wuthering Heights, but with a happier ending for Heathcliff/Jonas and Catherine/Elle.
You're right, of course, that Elle very much wants to stay with Peter in certain moments ... even makes up her mind to do so ... but it becomes harder and harder as the day progresses. There's no way that Elle can stay when she is silently crying for Jonas during intimate moments with her husband. That's unsustainable. But she is with her family, regardless. Plenty of ex-spouses co-parent, and Jonas is family too.
Why do Elle & Jonas get sexual all of a sudden, when they've been adult couples friends for years. What happened? She's crying because she mistook PTSD for love.
They get sexual, because they've always loved each other in a romantic, sexual way. Elle never allowed herself to have Jonas, because of guilt over what happened to Conrad. She cries after she realizes that she cannot have a satisfying sexual experience unless she's "thinking of the other man I love." The "truth about Jonas" is that they're meant to be together, because they're soulmates; and, when she realizes this, she no longer cries for "what I have lost" —i.e., Peter.
even so...why now? Elle's guilt magically disappears so she can finally "allow" herself to have Jonas? What causes her to suddenly realize they're soulmates?
Wallace is a horrible role model, why would Elle care about her "blessing" or take any advice from her? And the kids will not be ok. Elle knows her selfish choice to chase after a childhood fantasy will implode the lives of everyone involved.
^yes. Her rape and Conrad's death really was that traumatic. And there's this thing about mothers and daughters: Wallace didn't get everything right, of course, but Elle knows that she has her best interest at heart. The kids would also be affected by Elle and Peter becoming increasingly unhappy and distant, and Elle is confident in her assurance that "Peter is not vindictive—whatever happens, he would never take them away from me, never create a rift between me and them" (354).
Again, to suggest that children will not be okay if their parents divorce makes a pretty myopic assumption about half the population of kids in the U.S. alone.
Agree to disagree about who wins the prize for Most Dysfunctional Character in this deeply flawed & exploitive story. You read a lot more into it than I did.
^lol ... I got my PhD in English Literature ... so you're right there: reading deeply is what I get paid to do. ;-)
I was a high school English teacher for 30 yrs. & do copy editing online now...this story still didn't resonate with me, but I only have a Master's degree, so you can have the last word. LOL
Wow I enjoyed reading this as much as the book.
Agree! Ruth presented an excellent analysis of this story. But as a last word...I don't see it as a lost love regained; it's Elle self-indulgently giving herself a pass to become sexual with Jonas in the adrenaline rush she feels after talking to Rosemary (whose confession actually didn't justify or change anything.) Elle had a lifetime to choose Jonas & never did; there's no happy ending for them now, only more guilt ahead.
YES - I was trying to repost because I remembered the thing her mother said about the SWIM. You are the only one who mentioned. I was trying to figure out if her mother was giving her blessing or letting Elle know that she understood ELle had already "done it". But yes- that line is everything. HOWEVER!!!!!! What was the deal with Dixon - what were the clues in that - what was the purpose of this character and his relationship with women and being so sexual. AND WHAT ABOUT the boy on the farm who lost his mom to violence and was killing deer to reinact the moment so he could cuddle with them while they were dying. That to me signified Elles feelings towards children being traumatized and something she would never do to her children. Part of the reasaon I would never believe the suicide theory.
Who cares what Wallace says about "taking the swim", her life was a mess, why would anyone take advice from her? Elle's just looking for justification anywhere she can find it,
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Denise
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Jul 25, 2021 01:10AM
Thank you so much for your detailed thoughts! I loved reading this
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Of course! Thanks for posing the question! It's the first one I looked for when finishing the novel yesterday, lol, b/c I do think it's more ambiguous than the author meant it to be (based on an interview I read) ... and then, maddeningly, rather than saying: "she ends up with __," she just said, paraphrased, "go back and read the last paragraph really carefully." sigh.
Ruth, thank you for your thoughts! I had forgotten about the "you don't know if you'll regret the swim if you don't take it" line from Wallace. I think you summed everything up perfectly. Thanks again!
Thank you for this, I too have be looking all over for peoples thoughts and opinions. This is a beautiful explanation of it. So thank you for taking the time to write this. To speak to your first point, I think Elle sacrificed a part of herself for her mom and Wallace's happiness. In a way at the end I felt as if Wallace was saying it is time that Elle put her own happiness before her mother's and do something for her. I do agree, I don't like how she lied and the comment about being with Jonas would be like incest... I could have done without that.
Sure thing, Jessica and Rachel! LOL re: the incest comment, Rachel, and I *completely* agree.
I think one of the reasons we feel so "off" about the ending ... or, at least I did ... is that we got only the idea of the resolution rather than the resolution itself.
I *hate* that the last image we have of Jonas (other than that waiting silhouette) is of him being all pale and heartbroken b/c Elle won't take the ring. And then we get that awful incest comment, which we KNOW isn't true.
It would have been nice to be able to share Jonas's joy and Peter's ... well ... validation, at least, since deep down, he knows what he saw b/t Jonas and Elle (i.e., love and longing).
I re-read the pages/parts of just the "day" and feel she chose Jonas. Once Rosemary told Elle about Conrad, I feel that released Elle to go with her life long feeling s for Jonas.
Rosie: agreed! Elle seems to feel like she has to punish herself for Conrad's death, and she does that by denying herself Jonas. Once her frame of mind changes, and she starts to think of herself as Rosemary's rescuer, she is able to be with the man she loves, fully.
Ruth, thank you so much. I was going crazy with no one to discuss the ending with and I agree with you but you put it so much better than I could in my head,
Excellent commentary. Thank you. You have helped me clarify this ending. Finished it before bed last night and couldn’t stop thinking about it. I agree with everything you said. 😃
Ruth, you mention a point I didn't consider when you wrote, "but, in the end, walking out and facing the very natural gravitational pull towards her soulmate is the necessary and brave thing to do." Her mother's message throughout Elle's life is that we're not cowards.. we face truth head on.
No problem, Mary Jean & Victoria! Thanks for your sweet comments. :-) Marilyn: yes! Great point! When I went back and re-read "the day," I was struck by how observant and intuitive her mother was. She knew what was going on well before their talk, as only mothers do. ;-)
I did not get that at all. i thought for sure she ended up with Peter because she could not bear to hurt him & the kids. It was too late for Jonas even though they had resolved the guilt they both felt.
She stays with her husband & family, the decision was already made. Heller just threw in the wedding ring at the last second to get people talking about the book.
Yeah, I don't think so, Marian and James ... It feels to me very much like a retelling of Wuthering Heights, but with a happier ending for Heathcliff/Jonas and Catherine/Elle. You're right, of course, that Elle very much wants to stay with Peter in certain moments ... even makes up her mind to do so ... but it becomes harder and harder as the day progresses. There's no way that Elle can stay when she is silently crying for Jonas during intimate moments with her husband. That's unsustainable. But she is with her family, regardless. Plenty of ex-spouses co-parent, and Jonas is family too.
Why do Elle & Jonas get sexual all of a sudden, when they've been adult couples friends for years. What happened? She's crying because she mistook PTSD for love.
They get sexual, because they've always loved each other in a romantic, sexual way. Elle never allowed herself to have Jonas, because of guilt over what happened to Conrad. She cries after she realizes that she cannot have a satisfying sexual experience unless she's "thinking of the other man I love." The "truth about Jonas" is that they're meant to be together, because they're soulmates; and, when she realizes this, she no longer cries for "what I have lost" —i.e., Peter.
even so...why now? Elle's guilt magically disappears so she can finally "allow" herself to have Jonas? What causes her to suddenly realize they're soulmates? Wallace is a horrible role model, why would Elle care about her "blessing" or take any advice from her? And the kids will not be ok. Elle knows her selfish choice to chase after a childhood fantasy will implode the lives of everyone involved.
^yes. Her rape and Conrad's death really was that traumatic. And there's this thing about mothers and daughters: Wallace didn't get everything right, of course, but Elle knows that she has her best interest at heart. The kids would also be affected by Elle and Peter becoming increasingly unhappy and distant, and Elle is confident in her assurance that "Peter is not vindictive—whatever happens, he would never take them away from me, never create a rift between me and them" (354). Again, to suggest that children will not be okay if their parents divorce makes a pretty myopic assumption about half the population of kids in the U.S. alone.
Agree to disagree about who wins the prize for Most Dysfunctional Character in this deeply flawed & exploitive story. You read a lot more into it than I did.
^lol ... I got my PhD in English Literature ... so you're right there: reading deeply is what I get paid to do. ;-)
I was a high school English teacher for 30 yrs. & do copy editing online now...this story still didn't resonate with me, but I only have a Master's degree, so you can have the last word. LOL
Wow I enjoyed reading this as much as the book.
Agree! Ruth presented an excellent analysis of this story. But as a last word...I don't see it as a lost love regained; it's Elle self-indulgently giving herself a pass to become sexual with Jonas in the adrenaline rush she feels after talking to Rosemary (whose confession actually didn't justify or change anything.) Elle had a lifetime to choose Jonas & never did; there's no happy ending for them now, only more guilt ahead.
YES - I was trying to repost because I remembered the thing her mother said about the SWIM. You are the only one who mentioned. I was trying to figure out if her mother was giving her blessing or letting Elle know that she understood ELle had already "done it". But yes- that line is everything. HOWEVER!!!!!! What was the deal with Dixon - what were the clues in that - what was the purpose of this character and his relationship with women and being so sexual. AND WHAT ABOUT the boy on the farm who lost his mom to violence and was killing deer to reinact the moment so he could cuddle with them while they were dying. That to me signified Elles feelings towards children being traumatized and something she would never do to her children. Part of the reasaon I would never believe the suicide theory.
Who cares what Wallace says about "taking the swim", her life was a mess, why would anyone take advice from her? Elle's just looking for justification anywhere she can find it,
