Seb’s answer to “Why are reviewers not acknowledging the fact that entire premise is utterly ridiculous? A virus th…” > Likes and Comments
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Leaving aside the fact that I find Marvel films infantile, I have no problem suspending disbelief. But motivation should be credible at least.
You might want to watch a Marvel film or two before you declare them infantile, Paul.
Why are you assuming I haven’t tried, Shelli?
I have no problem with other people enjoying them, just as I enjoy things that other people find infantile.
“Infantile”? It seems we’re not exactly on the same page about the definition of that word. Unless of course you enjoy age- and diaper-play, in which case, I absolutely don’t judge.
Try the Cambridge definition: "typical of a child and therefore unsuitable for an adult". That is how Marvel films come across to me, just as Doctor Who (which I enjoy) comes across to some other people.
And let's leave it there.
Paul, I withdraw my previous snark, sincerely and with my apologies. I see you are from the UK, and this appears to be a bona fide example of the ol’ “two countries divided by a common language” scenario. Americans don’t generally use the word “infantile” as broadly as you cite – c.f. Miriam-Webster (a Yankee institution if there ever was one):
1 : of or relating to infants or infancy
2 : suitable to or characteristic of an infant
In other words, it’s not a synonym for “childish” or “immature”, not even in an exaggerated sense, unless there was some sort of overt joke being made (which would have needed at least a bit of context to be readily picked up).
Anyway, I still agree with Seb’s point 100% – I’d be a very bored reader without any speculative fiction in my life – but I did not mean to engage you at the level I did over the MCU films (I assume you meant MCU proper as opposed to generic Marvel-related films?) when you were not even saying what I thought you were about them. (Even though both viewers and critics generally disagree that the MCU oeuvre can reasonably be labeled “unsuitable for adults”, I definitely am not one of those raging fangirls who rant that no one’s allowed to dislike superhero movies.)
However, I do have to say, these two measures of your taste – this book for having an “utterly ridiculous” premise and MCU films for being “unsuitable for adults” – *do* seem like cases of inability/unwillingness to suspend disbelief. Of course, two examples are not enough to draw any general conclusions. For instance, I personally find some current American governmental… circumstances, shall we say? bizarre to the point that I would have found a novel with the same scenario(s) as its premise but written, say, 25-30 years ago, utterly straining my credulity. But I’ve found that not judging novels by their premises has opened me up to a whole new world of stories that I might not have previously touched with a ten-foot pole. I can’t say a) if this is even a trend for you, or b) that this book is one worth breaking it for, but it could be something worth thinking about.
And maybe try “Black Panther”, or “Captain America: Civil War”. 😁
Shelli, my sincere thanks to you for clearing up that gap of understanding and turning this into a potentially fruitful discussion.
Regarding suspension of disbelief, I have been reading science fiction fairly constantly since about 1977, when I was 14. I was mostly interested in realistic space travel stories, but I did move on to Ray Bradbury's poetic but unrealistic stuff, notably his Martian Chronicles, which dealt with a Mars that was known not to exist even at the time of writing. Then Philip K. Dick's mind-twisting stuff, Burroughs (Edgar Rice AND William S.), Robert Holdstock's wonderful Mythago Wood, Gene Wolfe, Robert Silverberg, Ursula LeGuin and many, many others.
I've also written my own, including a Doctor Who novel published under the name Paul Saint, and recently a book called Strange Doorways which features doorways hidden in plain sight which lead to physical nightmares and other versions of England.
So it's really not an issue with suspension of disbelief.
There are certain things I am not willing to buy into, though. We KNOW that a bite from a radioactive spider doesn't enable you to do the things a spider does, for instance, and I'm not sufficiently thrilled by the idea to overlook this fact. By contrast, I would love to travel in time, so I am prepared to overlook the fact that it will probably never be possible.
Generally, I am okay with stories based more or less on fact (e.g. The Martian), based on technology that we may or may not one day achieve and which gets the story moving (e.g. hyperdrives in many, many science fiction stories).
I am also keen on stories that have no explanation, especially where the characters are as surprised as we are, e.g. the early zombie stories, although this subgenre has now oversaturated the market.
I also enjoy stories where inexplicable events happen, but they happen consistently, and it's a matter of working out what the rules are so that the characters can use them to survive, e.g. the Ringu books and films.
Crucially, though, the behaviour of characters has to be "true".
Finally, yes, I agree with you about American governmental circumstances. But then again, it was all predicted in Back To The Future! ;)
while I'm not an MCU fanboy, I did enjoy the first spiderman, the early Iron Man movies, Black Panther, and especially the Guardians of the Galaxy movies, the Taika Thor's, and the avenger's infinity war/end game movies. GOTG and Thor Ragnarok were freakin hilarious! ditto for deadpool (marvel but apparently not MCU)
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Paul
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Nov 24, 2020 11:27AM
Leaving aside the fact that I find Marvel films infantile, I have no problem suspending disbelief. But motivation should be credible at least.
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You might want to watch a Marvel film or two before you declare them infantile, Paul.
Why are you assuming I haven’t tried, Shelli?I have no problem with other people enjoying them, just as I enjoy things that other people find infantile.
“Infantile”? It seems we’re not exactly on the same page about the definition of that word. Unless of course you enjoy age- and diaper-play, in which case, I absolutely don’t judge.
Try the Cambridge definition: "typical of a child and therefore unsuitable for an adult". That is how Marvel films come across to me, just as Doctor Who (which I enjoy) comes across to some other people.And let's leave it there.
Paul, I withdraw my previous snark, sincerely and with my apologies. I see you are from the UK, and this appears to be a bona fide example of the ol’ “two countries divided by a common language” scenario. Americans don’t generally use the word “infantile” as broadly as you cite – c.f. Miriam-Webster (a Yankee institution if there ever was one):1 : of or relating to infants or infancy
2 : suitable to or characteristic of an infant
In other words, it’s not a synonym for “childish” or “immature”, not even in an exaggerated sense, unless there was some sort of overt joke being made (which would have needed at least a bit of context to be readily picked up).
Anyway, I still agree with Seb’s point 100% – I’d be a very bored reader without any speculative fiction in my life – but I did not mean to engage you at the level I did over the MCU films (I assume you meant MCU proper as opposed to generic Marvel-related films?) when you were not even saying what I thought you were about them. (Even though both viewers and critics generally disagree that the MCU oeuvre can reasonably be labeled “unsuitable for adults”, I definitely am not one of those raging fangirls who rant that no one’s allowed to dislike superhero movies.)
However, I do have to say, these two measures of your taste – this book for having an “utterly ridiculous” premise and MCU films for being “unsuitable for adults” – *do* seem like cases of inability/unwillingness to suspend disbelief. Of course, two examples are not enough to draw any general conclusions. For instance, I personally find some current American governmental… circumstances, shall we say? bizarre to the point that I would have found a novel with the same scenario(s) as its premise but written, say, 25-30 years ago, utterly straining my credulity. But I’ve found that not judging novels by their premises has opened me up to a whole new world of stories that I might not have previously touched with a ten-foot pole. I can’t say a) if this is even a trend for you, or b) that this book is one worth breaking it for, but it could be something worth thinking about.
And maybe try “Black Panther”, or “Captain America: Civil War”. 😁
Shelli, my sincere thanks to you for clearing up that gap of understanding and turning this into a potentially fruitful discussion.Regarding suspension of disbelief, I have been reading science fiction fairly constantly since about 1977, when I was 14. I was mostly interested in realistic space travel stories, but I did move on to Ray Bradbury's poetic but unrealistic stuff, notably his Martian Chronicles, which dealt with a Mars that was known not to exist even at the time of writing. Then Philip K. Dick's mind-twisting stuff, Burroughs (Edgar Rice AND William S.), Robert Holdstock's wonderful Mythago Wood, Gene Wolfe, Robert Silverberg, Ursula LeGuin and many, many others.
I've also written my own, including a Doctor Who novel published under the name Paul Saint, and recently a book called Strange Doorways which features doorways hidden in plain sight which lead to physical nightmares and other versions of England.
So it's really not an issue with suspension of disbelief.
There are certain things I am not willing to buy into, though. We KNOW that a bite from a radioactive spider doesn't enable you to do the things a spider does, for instance, and I'm not sufficiently thrilled by the idea to overlook this fact. By contrast, I would love to travel in time, so I am prepared to overlook the fact that it will probably never be possible.
Generally, I am okay with stories based more or less on fact (e.g. The Martian), based on technology that we may or may not one day achieve and which gets the story moving (e.g. hyperdrives in many, many science fiction stories).
I am also keen on stories that have no explanation, especially where the characters are as surprised as we are, e.g. the early zombie stories, although this subgenre has now oversaturated the market.
I also enjoy stories where inexplicable events happen, but they happen consistently, and it's a matter of working out what the rules are so that the characters can use them to survive, e.g. the Ringu books and films.
Crucially, though, the behaviour of characters has to be "true".
Finally, yes, I agree with you about American governmental circumstances. But then again, it was all predicted in Back To The Future! ;)
while I'm not an MCU fanboy, I did enjoy the first spiderman, the early Iron Man movies, Black Panther, and especially the Guardians of the Galaxy movies, the Taika Thor's, and the avenger's infinity war/end game movies. GOTG and Thor Ragnarok were freakin hilarious! ditto for deadpool (marvel but apparently not MCU)
