Bir Varmış Bir Yokmuş Türkler ile Ermeniler Nefret ile İhtimaller Arasında Bir Yolculuk

by Meline Toumani

Kimi kesimlerin bir ihanet metni olarak algıladığı, kimi çevrelerinse sessizlikle geçiştirmek istediği, eleştirelliği, dürüstlüğü ve titizliğiyle büyük ses getiren ve tartışmalara konu olan çarpıcı bir çalışma. Amerikalı-Ermeni gazeteci Meline Toumani, Bir Varmış Bir Yokmuş: Türkler ile Ermeniler, Nefret ile İhtimaller Arasında Bir Yolculuk’ta asırlık “Türk-Ermeni Sorunu” etrafındaki fikirsel dönüşüm evrelerini ortaya koyarken, Türk ve Ermeni toplumlarına biraz içeriden, birazdan dışardan bakarak iki tarafı da anlamaya ve bu sayede, eğer varsa, barışmak için bir ihtimal bulmaya çalışıyor.

Çocukluğunu ve gençliğini Türklerden nefret eden ve kendi ifadesiyle “saplantılı” bir şekilde soykırımın tanınması için çabalayan Ermeniler arasında geçiren Toumani bir noktada bu halin Ermenilere faydadan çok zarar getirdiğini fark ediyor. 2007’de hiç tanımadığı Türkleri yakından tanımak için İstanbul’a taşınan Toumani burada kaldığı dört yıl boyunca konu 1915’te yaşananlar olduğunda Türklerin de Ermenilerden bir farkı olmadığını, onların da aynı tarihe dair kendi anlatılarına sarsılmaz bir biçimde sıkıca tutunduklarını görüyor. Toumani Türkiye’de farklı görüşlerden birçok insanla görüşerek Türkiye toplumunu anlamaya çalışırken hızla değişen bir ülkeye de tanıklık ediyor. Toumani’nin, diasporalı Ermeni kimliği, belleğin göreliliği, önyargı ve sorunlu önkabullerin yaygınlığı, geçmişin araçsallaştırılması ve Türkiye toplumuna dair tespitleri alışılmadık ve kimilerine ise sindirilmesi zor gelecek.

Genres: Nonfiction, History, Memoir, Travel, Middle East, Politics, Biography

320 pages, Paperback

First published March 11, 2014

About the author

Meline Toumani has written extensively for The New York Times on Turkey and Armenia as well as on music, dance, and film. Her work has also appeared in n+1, The Nation, Salon, and The Boston Globe. She has been a journalism fellow at the Institute for Human Sciences in Vienna, Austria, and coordinator of the Russian-American Journalism Institute in Rostov-on-Don, Russia. Born in Iran and ethnically Armenian, she grew up in New Jersey and California and now lives in New York City.

Reviews

[Jaylia3 · Rating 5 out of 5]

Though I was well aware of the conflict between Armenia and Turkey I was fuzzy on the details so the first thing I appreciate about this deeply felt book is that it brought me up to date about a still relevant enmity that dates back at least as far as the massacre of 1915. What I found at least as interesting and valuable has, I think, an even broader relevance--the author's personal quest to find a path to some kind of reconciliation between two antagonistic groups of people with diametrically opposed, passionately held, self-evident (to them) beliefs.

Broadly speaking Armenians believe they are victims of genocide, while Turkish people believe there were acts of war on both sides. The author is an Armenian American, born in Iran, and she was brought up with unshakable given assumptions about Turkey and its people that were embedded in her understanding of who she was, which she never the less began to struggle with and question. Meline Toumani didn’t doubt the idea of genocide, and she admits that as an Armenian she’s telling her side of the story, but she did start to wonder if some of the actions of the Armenian diaspora were counterproductive and actually making things more difficult for Armenians living next to Turkey in Armenia and for those Armenians whose families have lived in Turkey all along.

Rather than demanding a specifically worded apology, an all consuming quest that has led some members of the Armenian diaspora to self-justified violence, Toumani decided to do something that was to her at first almost inconceivable--move to Istanbul to better understand the Turkish people and to see if personal interactions, focused discussions, and casual conversations could lead to a better appreciation of each other and a greater alignment of beliefs and worldviews.

This book tells the story of that often difficult and frustrating journey, and it’s dramatic, fascinating, moving, and sometimes disturbing. It made me wonder about my own unexamined but deeply held ideas, and Toumani’s experiences have implications for understanding other grievous mental legacies of oppressed and oppressor like racism, colonialism, anti-semitism, etc. The title, There Was and There Was Not, is the phrase that both Armenians and Turkish people use to begin a tale and it’s ambiguity is an apt reflection of the conflicting senses of reality that people on both sides of the divide hold dear.

I read an advanced review copy of this book. Review opinions are mine.

[Emma Deplores Goodreads Censorship · Rating 5 out of 5]

A thoughtful, incisive, courageous memoir of my favorite sort, where an author digs deep and with an open mind into big questions about painful events. Toumani, an Armenian-American journalist, grew up surrounded by the fairly militant rhetoric of the Armenian diaspora around the need to gain recognition and punish Turkey for its early 20th century genocide of its Armenian population. As an adult, however, she came to question whether her community’s obsession with the genocide was healthy, and wound up spending several years in Turkey: traveling, learning the language and the politics, and exploring whether possibilities for reconciliation exist.

Toumani is an excellent writer, who’s clearly engaged in a lot of in-depth, nuanced thought about these issues and presents the evolution of her own thinking—as well as the people around her—skillfully on the page. Not knowing much about Turkey, Armenia, or the history of Armenians in Turkey (most of what is now eastern Turkey was at one point part of the Armenian kingdom, and remained ethnically Armenian under the Ottoman Empire), I learned a lot from this. I was also continually impressed by Toumani’s ability to ask bold questions and face people and opinions she knew would be uncomfortable. Some of her conversations with Turkish genocide deniers (unfortunately there are a lot of these, as the Turkish government denies the genocide and has worked to erase the history of Armenians in Turkey—except as minor villains) made me uncomfortable, and I have no stake in this!

Toumani’s ultimate conclusions are not starry-eyed, however. She ultimately realizes that after too long in Turkey, she’s starting to internalize the oppression of Armenians there, feeling as if she comes from a lesser group and needs to win the favor of Turks she encounters. And while she’s able to befriend some Kurdish students as well as a handful of ethnic Turks who accept that the genocide occurred, she can’t truly connect with most Turks, who (being generally gracious people) tend to treat her identity as an unfortunate fact that they will politely overlook. Still, she comes out of the experience with a far more nuanced view of a country the Armenian diaspora tends to view as evil incarnate, even to the point of mistreating Armenians who live there.

Not an altogether perfect book—the section on the author’s travels to Armenia feels truncated, focused on the diaspora rather than Armenian citizens themselves, and the final conclusions feel rather abrupt—but certainly a superior one. Worth a read for anyone interested in the effects of nationalism, in group identity and historical tragedies, and in questions of historical memory itself, as well as those who simply enjoy intelligent and deeply-felt memoirs. Those who want more memoirs along this line might also be interested in Echoes from the Dead Zone (about the conflict in Cyprus) and In My Mother's Footsteps (Palestine).

[Adelle Waldman · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is a terrifically smart and original book that is both important and a pleasure to read because it is so psychologically astute and beautifully written. It is about an Armenian-American writer who grew up being told that Turkey was the enemy As an adult, she decided to move to Turkey and learn the language to try and see if it was somehow possible to move beyond demonization without compromising her identity as an Armenian or her loyalty to her community.

The questions that the book raises about nationalism vs. liberalism, the limits of liberalism, politics and art are profound--there are no easy answers here. Toumani is also wonderfully incisive about how these larger dynamics play out in individual relationships and social interactions, which she narrates with great skill. She is a truly gifted close observer, and the book is engrossing and absorbing even as it raises all these large philosophical issues. I looked forward to coming back to it each night, to falling under the spell of Toumani's voice. Easily one of the best books I've read in ages!

[Louise · Rating 5 out of 5]

Meline Toumani’s discussion of the issues surrounding Armenians, Turks and the genocide of 1915 begins in the USA. She writes of the Armenian summer camp she went to as a child where, along with sports, canoeing, singing, Saturday dance night, she got the message about 1915. One quote from the camp’s newsletter says: “It’s fun to be at Camp Haiastan because it’s fun to learn how people died.” An evening speaker begins “Tonight we are here to discuss what we are willing to do to achieve Hai Tahd” (the cause).”

From here, Toumani goes on to show how those in “Armenian diaspora” work towards “the cause”. There are press availabilities with nonagenarian survivors in nursing homes who ramble about their experiences. There are student groups who challenge professors. There are terrorist groups that have bombed Turkish embassies and killed diplomats. There are lobbying groups pressuring countries to pressure Turkey and boycotts of Turkish goods. From her state-side life, Toumani sees the anger consuming Armenians and sees the resulting political actions as detrimental to Armenians in Turkey and Armenia, itself.

Her visits to Turkey were an eye opener for both Toumani and the reader. Turkey, as “a nation for Turks” is not minority friendly. While Armenians, Jews and Greeks are “officially recognized”, they, like the Kurds (the largest minority group) face institutional and personal discrimination. Criticizing the government or using the word “genocide” can get you in jail. Taking up the genocide recognition cause can mean trouble. Hrant Dink, a Turkish-Armenian editor was tried for using the word “genocide” and being critical of the government. He was later assassinated by a right wing nationalist with political ties.

Toumani shows how in Turkey everything about Armenia and Armenians is mitigated or hidden. The Turkish language has pejoratives with Armenian references. School children learn that Armenians were favored by the Sultan and in the events leading up to World War I betrayed Turkey. The restoration of Akhtamar, an Armenian church, should not have been a controversy but everything about it, especially the cross at the top was an issue. (Armenians are Christian and Turks, Muslim.) Upon its opening, the word “Anatolian” was substituted for “Armenian”. Similarly, the city museum has no mention of Armenians. Yusuf Halacolgla, president of the Turkish Historical Society is a master at changing the conversation on any current or past discussion of Armenians. Even flights from Istanbul to Armenia are not listed anywhere, even at the airport gate where they take off.

In her visit to Armenia Tourmani finds that feelings against the Turks, even Armenian Turks, also run high. There is an interesting chapter about a sports event where Armenians who have settled around the world compete. There are descriptions of the towns, relatives and a genocide memorial.

The book ends with a few positive notes. The Akhtamar church has its cross. A Turk-originated online petition has over 30,000 signatures supporting recognition.

This is a highly readable book. While I have outlined the content, the heart of the book is the emotional experience of the author in observing this impasse from two sides. The author, in showing how her views evolved, is very even handed. For a layman with little knowledge of this subject that emerges in the news from time to time, I feel very well informed.

[Jenny (Reading Envy) · Rating 4 out of 5]

An advanced reader copy of this book was provided to me by the publisher, after my request. All quotations are not in their final form and may not appear in the printing, but I wanted to include a few tastes of what to expect.

Meline Toumani is an Armenian-American who was born in Iran. After a childhood saturated with the Armenian genocide, she decides to take a trip to Turkey to try to get a more balanced view. I admire her tenacity and curiosity, particularly since this topic is now one hundred years old and does not show signs of either side relenting. The Armenians insist that the Turkish people (and the rest of the world) call the events of 1915 a genocide; the Turkish government has gone as far as outlawing the use of the word genocide in relation to these same events. It is a complex issue I was not expecting to personally encounter, but almost every Turkish person I have met in the last few years has felt obligated to teach me that there was no genocide. I have had the conversation steered in that direction from topics ranging from language learning to vegetables! I was puzzled, I was unprepared, so I was interesting in reading Toumani's experience and perspective.

"To deny the truth about a historical event, like a genocide, requires building a raft of justifications, weaving together ideas about the distant acts of unseen players, balancing each component just so, in order that the raft may float under the right conditions. This kind of denial flourishes in books and conversations, in government rhetoric. But such denial has a corollary that is more perplexing - less like statecraft and more like witchcraft, less like euphemism and more like hallucination; the ability to ignore things - tangible objects, even - that are right in front of your eyes."

I would not say she came up with a universal solution; surely if one existed it would not still be such a source of conflict! But she does point out the barriers to resolution on both sides, while focusing on the individuals she encountered and how they are each effected in their daily lives. She strives to understand the different views while fully acknowledging her lifelong ingrained bias. I was most buoyed by the groups combining Armenian and Turkish efforts, for peace, for research, and community building. They seem to hold more promise than the governments of these two countries in making any progress in reconciliation.

I also learned a lot about Armenia and Armenians, which I previously could not have claimed to know much about except for in the context of genocide or not genocide. For instance, Mount Ararat and Noah's Ark are considered symbols of Armenia, even though they are now officially in lands claimed by Turkey. That there are 8 million Armenians in the world but 2/3 of that number do not live in Armenia!

[Daniyela · Rating 5 out of 5]

Ik kreeg dit boek, samen met tientallen anderen in mijn handen geschoven door Roland Breeur. Het was toen eind januari 2023. Ik ben meermaals herbegonnen en in alle eerlijkheid vond ik in die eerste drie pagina's niets wat me kon vastgrijpen. Ongeduldig als ik ben, sla ik boeken dan ook gewoon dicht.
Kort geleden deed ik nog eens een poging. Ik liet Meline eindelijk ononderbroken haar verhaal doen en droeg haar met me mee; ze werd een beetje zoals een vriendin waarmee ik elke twee weken koffie ging drinken om over genocide te spreken.
Ik las het zonet uit en de toevalligheid van de tijd verwondert me opnieuw; ik sla immers het boek dicht op een moment waarop ik, na maanden lezen over genocide, op een verbintenis gestoten ben. (Ook al weet ik op dit moment nog niet wat die intieme verbintenis die ik in mij vond exact inhoudt)

Meline Toumani, ik bleef haar naam vergeten, die klinkt nu, net als de referentie in de titel van het boek, als een sprookje in mijn oren. Ik wist niet dat ik een andere vrouw zou ontmoeten die even thuis en even vreemd is in de Turkse cultuur als mij. Ik kreeg tranen in mijn ogen door de manier waarop ze details uit het Midden Oosten beschreef of misschien eerder hoe ze ervaringen beschreef uit iemands leven die in het westen leeft maar omringt is door het oosten.
Want Meline, ik en ongetwijfeld andere allochtoonse jongeren weten inderdaad niet hoe het is om in een verhouding te staan met hun ouders waarin onze ouders meer weten wij. Meer weten over cultuur, taal, kunst, enzovoort. Een wereld waarin zij wel gewoon hun administratie kunnen doen en zelf naar doktersafspraken kunnen, een wereld waarin wij geen intellectuele superioriteit en breder begrip van de lokale cultuur hebben. Ik vraag me af hoe het zou zijn om de andere positie te bekleden. Een wereld waarin ik niet geïrriteerd ben op mijn vader omdat hij niet weet hoe hij een document moet lezen maar waarin hij geïrriteerd is op mij omdat ik een fout gemaakt heb tijdens het weven van een tapijt.
Zulke voorbeelden komen subtiel aan bod in Melines zoektocht. De geuren, kleuren en smaken van Turkije en Armenië. De bittere genocideontkenning wordt spijtig genoeg niet uitgebalanceerd door de gastvrije zoetigheid van de Turkse mensen. Die twee facetten van de Turkse samenleving bestaan simultaan en worden aaneen gelijmd met onwetendheid.

"If this had been first or second grade, Middle Eastern wafers would have been embarrassing. But in kindergarten sugar conquered all, and I may have even been a little bit proud."
Oh en dit citaat. Als ik maar één ding mocht aanduiden in heel het boek dan zouden het deze zinnen zijn. Er verscheen in mijn verbeelding meteen een rechthoekige kartonnen gekleurde doos met vier rijen koeken in, daaronder nog eens vier rijen. Zulke 'wafers' worden niet per 10 of 12 ofzo verpakt, het gevolg ervan is dat dezelfde koekendoos wekenlang bovengehaald wordt en op een vreemde manier opgenomen wordt in de structuur en samenstelling van de kamer; zoals een stuk meubilair in de woonkamer of de waterkoker in de keuken. De smaak van goedkope koeken en thee kleven aan mijn gehemelte. En de schaamte -wat een specifieke soort schaamte is?- de inferioriteit die Meline in dat citaat beschrijft en volgens mij eigen is aan de ervaring van 'het kind zijn van immigranten' raakt mij.
Nee de koeken die ik mee krijg van thuis zijn niet vies.
Nee het feit dat ik komkommer eet op de speelplaats als tussendoortje is niet raar.
En de kweepeer onderaan in mijn rugzak trouwens ook niet.

De onderdanigheid manifesteert zich op diverse manieren en in dimensies; in de details van het zijn.
In voedsel; Wafers. Komkommers. Kweeperen.
Maar ook in de structuur van mijn gelaat. In mijn blik. En in die van de ander.
Die elkaar af en toe evenwaardig kruisen. Een moment waarin ik niet mijn ogen hoef neer te slaan en de koek in twee breek om te delen.

[Alex · Rating 5 out of 5]

There Was and There Was Not is a fantastic book - insightful, informative, and beautifully written. Although I am not Armenian, I empathized strongly with the author's exploration of group identity and history. Writing this book was clearly not an easy choice for her, and there are no easy answers to questions she raises. What does it mean to be an open, freethinking individual and still respect your family, your culture, and the history of your people? Can you do both? I highly recommend this book for anyone interested exploring the lines between self and group, for people interested in the fraught history of Armenians and Turks, and finally for anyone looking for a great read.

[Blue · Rating 5 out of 5]

First of all, I have to congratulate Meline Toumani for such a brave book, for a first book, and a daring attempt to break out of the very strict restraints one's identity can impose on the self.

Second of all, I should say, "I am Tunc." Readers have to read the book to understand what this means, but reading Toumani's account of her travels to Turkey, her interactions with Turks, Armenians and Turkish-Armenians made me think that if I were like anyone else in the book, I would be Tunc, down to the very last contradiction this identification holds (A Turk who has strong opposition to be a Turk even though s/he is a Turk.)

Most interesting for me was the dimension of the difference of opinion and experience between the diaspora Armenians and the Armenians who live in Turkey. It was no surprise that the diaspora, like all diasporas of all ethnic, racial, and national kinds, is made up of (in general) richer, more privileged people who live far far away from the homeland and fantasize about it to the point of being annoying and downright hated by the people who actually live in the homeland, who are descendants of more unfortunate (usually poorer, less educated) people of the same ethnicity/race/etc. Toumani's own account of her travels in Turkey made me think, in many instances, that here was an American, born and bred, traveling in uncharted territory; her reactions, her likes and dislikes were so American, or perhaps I recognized them as such because I am much more familiar with the American experience in Turkey than the Armenian-American experience in Turkey. And the lack of acknowledgement (not on Toumani's part, as she is very well aware) of the fortunate diaspora Armenians of their privileged lives as Westerners living in countries like the USA and Canada and Denmark and Norway and the UK, free to travel almost anywhere in the world, free to enter countries (including Turkey) by just paying $20 at the border, even free to write/say racist and inflammatory things if they want to... So the contempt and resentment the non-diaspora Armenians feel towards the diaspora was not surprising. Like everything to do with Armenia, it is a muddled love-hate relationship that will probably go on until the end of time; the experiences of the people are that different. What surprised me instead was the hatred Toumani chronicles directed at the Armenians who live in Turkey by the diaspora. This, I thought was very strange (though it made sense, in a twisted way). And in a way, it is a chronic disease of human division and intolerance to think one's own suffering (let's forget for a moment that this suffering means living in a Western country in relative comfort and freedom) is the worst, that those who remained did not suffer, do not, still, suffer, those who remained were and are traitors to the bigger cause...

I was surprised also that two points that I find confusing regarding the Turkish-Armenian history were not mentioned in Toumani's book. One is that the Ottomans "used" Kurds to do the worst to Armenians in 1915. And the second is that there is a strong Jewish lobby against what happened to Ottoman-Armenians in 1915 being recognized as the what the diaspora is so fixated on. And how interesting that Toumani feels, as expected, most comfortable in Turkey with the members of these other ethnic groups, all marginalized and oppressed one way or another in modern Turkey as they were before (or worse, or better, probably depends on individual experience). I often wonder if the Kurdish involvement is another Turkish propaganda ploy to deflect blame (I have heard someone say "Let the Kurds have their own country. Then they can apologize for 1915!") I don't know (I have long ago given up hope of getting "truth" about matters that so many feel so strongly about.) But the involvement of the Jewish lobby was told to me by one of my best friends from high school, who was Jewish and very much in touch with his community in Istanbul. I am, to this day, perplexed by these things, even if they are true. In the end it makes sense, because I often do wonder why "they" don't all get together and become a much stronger force than their individual parts. Perhaps, everyone has their own agenda. Surprise...

Another interesting point that I noticed as I was reading was that there was a blur between Ottoman and Turk. The fact that I noticed it made me realize how hardwired my Kemalist education is (Ataturk's main policy was to distance the modern nation from 1) Ottomans, and 2) Arabs and other Muslim nations, thus his main efforts were to silence the sultanists and the Islamists. In light of the current situation in the world, I consider him a man with a vision beyond his time. As a woman and a minority, I am thankful that he happened when he happened so I could live a relatively free, well educated life and pursue my passion in science. That does not mean I think he was right in doing everything he did or the way he did everything). Toumani criticizes Ataturk a lot, and I agree with most of her criticisms (I am Tunc, belonging not to the Kemalists because I do not worship Ataturk, nor to the anti-Kemalists, being too liberal, too female, and too other minorities to accept the Muslim-state-like ideologies, nor to any specific ethnic identity, though I have blood from the Kurds, Mecedonians, and Anatolians of all sorts). But the alternative (what we are more and more experiencing in Turkey today) is, and I would argue would be, worse worse worse for all minorities currently residing in Anatolia and Turkey. For all the wrongs Ataturk did, he had some visions that he tried to implement (again, I am not saying at all that he was right in everything, not that his vision was implemented well or even if it were implement, would have been great for everyone). He thought (I am speculating here, since I never spoke to the man himself) that for a land with so many conflicting identities, one unifying identity was a necessary compromise. I suspect he would have chosen something like "I am a green alien from the planet of HEPBERABER (all together)" IF he thought people would agree to it. There wasn't a lot of room for compromise. There weren't a lot of words to choose from. To this day, I wish he had chosen something like "Anatolian" instead of Turk (but perhaps then my grandfather would be offended, having been born in Selanik). Perhaps Kemal Pasa thought it was about time that we embrace the identity of Turks, with its good and bad. Perhaps he needed a word that the majority of people who could oppose the sultanists would accept. I am sure he said much about this subject, but it is difficult to know what he thought and what he felt he had to say. All I know is it is easy to judge, he in the 21st century, living in my comfortable condo in New York, looking back and shaking my head (though I do not yet have all of the Western privileges that people like Toumani, having been born in NJ, have). What would I have done?

Better yet, I question that I had was: what would the Armenians had done? There is no way of knowing; there is no control experiment, no parallel universe that we can peek into. If it weren't for 1915, would Armenians call themselves Turks? (I realize that this is an echo of the same question raised by Turks who wonder why, after living side by side peacefully for centuries Armenians rebelled against the Ottomans. But this is different. I don't believe anyone lived side by side for centuries peacefully as equals. Many were not equal and were separate in the Ottoman Empire; this is partly how they kept such a diverse group together under one rule, until it got too large even for that method and crumbled... So the question is even more important: if 1915 hadn't happened, would Armenians call themselves Turks? The answer is yes and no. It's complicated. As always.) So Ataturk had a vision. For years the powers that may tried to make this vision work at all costs. Now, there is a strong move, a rise, if you will, of the long oppressed religious group (or, those who can belong to this group with any measure of brainwashing and "education" just like the Kemalist education that I grew up with) against this vision, for it was flawed to begin with, and like all, made some bad decisions that cost lives and caused oppression. Now, we will see how it could have been if Ataturk never happened. And I wonder if Armenians will be as critical of Ataturk in a hundred years as they are now, if things go in the direction they seem to be going... (Interestingly, Erdogan could piss of the White Turks and the modern Turkish establishment by giving the Armenians the recognition they seek. But this cannot be, because then the Ottomans would be at fault, and he is very much into glorifying our Ottoman past [as long it does not involve sex and alcohol, like in the popular Tv series Muhtesem Yuzyil. Ha ha.) But I am sure his people could find a tricky way to do this, if one day, he decides to really piss everyone off.)

I am in awe of the Armenian diaspora for being able to instill such strong identities in their modern youth. I am sad that it is mostly based on a fantasy and hate. But I understand the hate. People have hated for much less in history. I find that they are entitled to all the hate they can muster. I just don't think it will change anything. But perhaps that's the point.

I normally end my book reviews with recommendations to certain group of people (i.e., recommended for those who like to read about history and Anatolia) but this book I am afraid to recommend to any of my Armenian friends. Is that weird? I will recommend it to the most open-minded people I know, people I know who won't be offended by the daring questions Toumani asks. They are all non-Armenian Turks. My mom might, after reading the book, find it appropriate to recommend to one of her best friends, who happens to be Armenian. I'll let her decide (the book would have to be translated to Turkish first, of course...)

I apologize that this was not just a review of the book. And thank Goodreads First Reads for a copy of the book.

ps. What is an ethnic Turk? I don't know what that means. It seems that many people know what this means, including Toumani. Is an ethnic Turk a definition by omission? Are we, all of a sudden, agreeing with the Turkish government, and calling whoever does not belong to a handful of official ethnicities is, by default, an ethnic Turk? To me it seems as ridiculous as an ethnic American (even Native Americans, if they went back long enough in their history, would probably argue that there are no ethnic Americans among them or they were ALL ethnic Americans!)
pps. The "Hi, Todd!" story is hilarious. It seems just like the thing I would do!
ppps. I still don't get what is really happening between the Erdogan clan and the Gulen clan. I tried to understand this in my recent visit, but could not really get a clear answer, other than vague concepts like megalomania and absolute power. This may seem tangential to the Armenian interest, but it is not, I don't think. In fact, it could be very important.

[Victoria · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is one of those books that after finishing, I am just so thankful that I heard about it and read it! The author, an Armenian born in Iran but raised mostly in America, decides to try to better understand the nation that she has been raised to hate - Turkey. Though the 1915 genocide takes up the forefront of the book - not in its re-hashing of details, but in the lingering reverbations throughout both Armenian and Turkish societies (and nations beyond, considering the widespread diaspora of the Armenian people). Perhaps like many Americans, I first encountered the history of the Armenian genocide in connection with Adolf Hitler’s quotation (justification?) of asking who remembered the Armenians. Even at my Loyola University 20th Century Genocide and the Holocaust class, though the Armenian genocide was discussed, none of the readings of the class were devoted entirely to it. A few years later, in a hotel in Zurich, I watched the film Ararat (which Toumani describes here from her perspective and gives a nice summary of not only the film, but its reception) and though I found it moving, took a while to track down to introduce to friends and family.

This memoir is definitely a thought-provoking and intimate (but not in an unpleasant or crass way, more intellectually intimate and honest). It’s definitely one that I wish had been available while I was taking that class - and one that I hope that history classes will use or at least refer to as a great starting point for a discussion. I think that book discussion groups, too, will find this to be a great one to read. I am completely impressed with the author’s candor and intelligently-put questions. It is a fascinating and illuminating read and one that I imagine will have much deeper emotional connections and meanings to Turkish and Armenian readers - yet it will still touch the hearts and minds of any members of its audience. I think that is a powerful memoir and one that takes such a unique perspective that it is almost unfathomable to see a similar title springing up from any other source to describe the continuing legacy of conflict and pain in the wake of such horrific actions. Bravo!

[Caroline · Rating 4 out of 5]

An important and in depth memoir that explores personal and national identity. Specifically, this book is about Turkish denial of the Armenian genocide, but it provides broad lessons and insight into the role history and culture play in how we relate to each other. Still, Toumani is wise not to make these connections for the reader and focuses strictly on Turkish-Armenian relations.

This book is exactly what I love to read: an exploration of difficult and seemingly unresolvable issues. The book may be as close to unbiased as one could get (meaning, it is biased, still) and Toumani is extremely honest about her ongoing internal conflict. This vulnerability is important to the narrative, but at times her naivete is a bit much.

[Filiz Demiral · Rating 5 out of 5]

Türk-Ermeni sorununa ilişkin okuma yapan biriyseniz okuyabilirsiniz, ben samimi buldum.

[Ingrid · Rating 5 out of 5]

Maybe at one point, I’ll edit this review to more accurately express how much I loved this book, but for now, I can only say that I sincerely appreciated the depth of questioning, vulnerability, openness, and opportunities it provided for connection as a reader. This book really has so much I want to talk about, but its expression and analysis of the long-lasting social effects of the Armenian genocide brought forth so many examples of discussions of identity (both individual and national) and the role of politics and power in the remembrance and forgetting of truth, at home and worldwide. I think it could have benefitted from connecting more with other conflicts focused on nationhood, othering, and who "belongs" (*cough cough* Israeli-Palestinian conflict), but I recognize that by focusing on Armenian and Turkish relations she kept herself from straying too far from the original message.

[Lilly Minasyan · Rating 5 out of 5]

“When you don’t want to see something, you don’t look for it, don’t know you are avoiding it.”

******
Starting the year with this amazing book that I came across accidentally, while searching on Goodreads the word "Armenia". The cover caught my attention and few minutes later I was sitting and diving into this book.
This book is written by an Armenian, who was born in Iran, but then grew up in the United States and later on, as an adult, she moves to Istanbul, Turkey, learns the language and does research about the attitude towards Armenians in Turkey, to kind of see their version of the history, which in my humble opinion is the best thing to do.
I promised myself in 2020, that I will read more books about Armenia, because I catch myself reading about WW2 way more than about my own history, so that had to change. I have read great books about the Armenian Genocide, but this book wasn't necessarily about the Genocide, it was more humans and how they perceive one another.
Like the above-mentioned quote, I try to see the things that I don't want to see, since I consider myself open-minded, I better act like one. Only then you can broaden your horizon and question your knowledge. One needs to questions themselves constantly.
Meline's book was the thing that I wanted, something different, not a book filled with facts, the stories about how Turks killed us, but rather how both sides have flawed mentality in many regards. Yes, I am doing the "bothsideism" because most of the time it takes two to tango. I think Armenians are separated into two groups:
1. eye for an eye.
2. Two wrongs don't make it right.
I am more subscribed to the second one, because I believe the best force of change is love and understanding, which is a rough path, but the one that I am willing to take. Mahatma Gandhi didn't go around and blow and kill people.
I liked how Meline tried to connect with Turks and Kurds to find a common ground, I think through friendly discourse you can gain supporters, rather shouting the same things over and over.
This book might be looked at criticism towards Armenians, but that's not what I think of it. I think we do need a voice of reason to point our wrongs, so we can fix it.
Meline's journey and her conversations brought so many memories of my own, when you try to talk about the Genocide and mostly turks say "we aren't historians, and we don't care about politics", such an easy way to not to hide your head into the sand and wash your hands. I even had a classmate, who was studying POLITICAL SCIENCE, saying this. Or once I was told "we are all Ottomans", meaning myself, I almost lost my brain cells, I am not an Ottoman, I am Armenian, period.
The one thing that was very different between me and Meline was the fact that she would call herself American in many occasions, then say that her origins are Armenian. Maybe it is because she had another option, but since I don't have, I love flaunting my Armenia-ness and find someone to debate over the Genocide. This is no way a criticism, just an observation, I wish she didn't have the feeling to hide it in few cases.
Anywayyyy, I think this is a good book to read, I really enjoyed it and read it almost in one breath. I think most people would like it!

[Katie · Rating 5 out of 5]

Meline Toumani is an Armenian-American who grew up in New Jersey. The Armenian-American community that she associated with during her childhood devoted a lot of energy to boycotting all things Turkish and working for genocide recognition by the US government. As she gets older, she begins to question this hardline stance against Turkey and the single issue politics of genocide recognition.

When she is an adult, she decides to travel to Turkey as a journalist, to meet with people from various backgrounds and learn more about the country that was taught to hate as a child. She is convinced that if she can report about civil, honest conversations with people from different backgrounds, the two sides will begin to understand each other and they can begin to work towards peace.

After spending time in Turkey, she discovers everything is a lot more complicated than she realized, including her own prejudices. The title of the book, There Was and There Was Not, comes from a traditional start to Turkish and Armenian stories, meant to illustrated the complicated nature of the story. This is not meant to indicate that every story contains equal truth, but rather that every story is imperfect and influenced by perspective and bias.

This book was really well written and very readable. The book was not meant to be completely objective, it is as much a memoir as anything else and Toumani is very honest about her personal reactions to people she meets and situations she encounters. I learned a lot, not so much about the genocide itself, but rather about how reactions to those events are still so prevalent in modern society.

[Caryn Jackson · Rating 3 out of 5]

I heard the author on NPR and was interested in the subject matter (Armenia and Turkey, what do I know about these countries ... nothing) and the point of the book (is it possible for Armenians and Turks to not hate each other). As an Armenian but US born woman in her early 30's, the author spent several years living in Turkey to understand the fractious relationship between Armenians and Turkey and whether that relationship is mendable -- the book centers on the failure of the Turks and the insistence of the Armenians to recognize the genocide of close to a million Armenians by the Turks at the end of the Ottoman Empire, around WWI. While her journey is important and commendable, I was saddened but not surprised to feel, after reading the book, that friendship between the two cultures cannot be "talked" through. Any warmth between the two will be exceedingly slow going, it will be the small ripples that come from the large blocks of ice thrown into the pond, which rarely happens. The book is a fairly easy read, as she is a good writer. I found the organization of the book sometimes difficult to follow. I am keen to learn more about this area of the world but not through dry history books.

[Laura · Rating 4 out of 5]

This was a remarkable book for me. As the granddaughter of a genocide survivor, this book was a very personal experience. I know my own fami
ly history and have read survivor's memoirs, history, and historical novels. So, I know the basics of the issue. Meline Toumani takes the issue of genocide recognition and the reconciliation with modern day Turkey to whole new level. This is not an obvious take on the issue and will likely offend many Armenians who cling to dogma. I appreciated her nuanced approach. This book is really about how an individual reconciles themselves to historical facts independent of what the clan purports. I would guess that other ethnic groups could relate to this as well. It is hard for me to recommend this to those who are not familiar with the issues mostly because I'm not sure of their interest. But it is very well-written and while a personal account, also there are the universal themes I mentioned above. It is also a travelogue and since Turkey is an inherently interesting place it has value in that way. So, I would recommend giving it a try.

[Steve · Rating 4 out of 5]

The Armenian genocide is a often forgotten tragedy, yet hundreds of books have been written on the subject. After 100 years of historical research and recollections, it seems there would be little new ground to cover. But Toumani found a new and modern perspective on the events of 1915.
It is important to discuss and understand the history, but it is also important to understand how the history affects both Armenian and Turkish people today. Toumani does this by traveling to both Armenia and Turkey, as well as discussing the issue with members of the Armenian diaspora. Her writing is beautiful and elegant but simple and conversational.
My mother is Armenian, so I am well-versed on the Armenian genocide, but I didn't grow up in a predominantly Armenian community. So I was fascinated with this book from the outset. Toumani describes growing up in a Armenian enclave in New Jersey, where all things Turkish were shunned, boycotted and despised. However, she chooses to move past this blind hatred and tries to understand the Turkish perspective on the Armenian genocide.

[Zeinab · Rating 2 out of 5]

I initially thought that I was going to give this book a high rating. I am on chapter 21 and have enjoyed reading up to this point.

But it’s become glaringly obvious that Meline Toumani is a Zionist. Talking about loving the Israeli accent, quoting Alan Dershowitz, and then mentioning that the Jewish people fled to Israel after the genocide to
have their own homeland, with no mention of the people that were already living there, the Palestinians.

Both the Armenians and the Jewish people were the victims of genocide. But that’s the extent of the parallel. The Armenians did not become ethnic cleansers themselves after the genocide. The Israelis, on the other hand, did.

It was really sad to see how someone like Ms. Toumani, who knows the suffering caused by ethnic cleansing and displacement, does not seem to acknowledge or recognize this suffering when it is carried out by Israelis.

Thank you, Ms. Toumani, for a great read on Armenia/Turkey. But I urge you to educate yourself on what is actually going on in Israel.

[Taffy · Rating 1 out of 5]

Horribly boring and redundant. Read a history book on the subject if you want to learn about the discourse between Armenians and Turks.

[Nicole Means · Rating 5 out of 5]

A beautiful story about one woman’s quest to find legitimacy.

[Jaz ♡ · Rating 5 out of 5]

couldn't sleep. review coming soon.

sunday, march 2, 2025:
Wow. The thoughtfulness, compassion, perception, and insight that Meline bring in this memoir reach a level that I aspire to achieve in my own life when it comes to interacting with the world and connecting with the people around me. The subtitle of this book is A Journey through Hate and Possibility in Turkey, Armenia, and Beyond, and I’d like to take a moment to appreciate how well Meline delivered on the “beyond” part. Though extremely specific in its detailed account of the history and complexities of Turkish-Armenian relations, this book also speaks to the universal experience of searching for one’s own identity, especially in the way that relates to one’s own heritage and culture. And it delves into linguistics in ways I didn’t expect. I mean, the very first section of the book after the map of Turkey and Armenia is “Notes on Language” - I think this should have clued me into the journey I was about to take on the complexities of language, how we try our very best to give meaning to our own thoughts and realities, yet sometimes find ourselves restricted to the ways it ends up being used.

One of the first things that struck me reading this memoir was how I saw my own grappling with identity reflected in Meline’s story. This is not new, I suppose. I have read many memoirs written by people who immigrated to the U.S., or are the children of immigrants themselves. And I always do feel seen reading about others’ experiences of feeling othered and displaced. It’s a familiar story. The steps to assimilation that my mother and I have achieved living in the U.S. contain layers that I continue to discover and process into adulthood.

Let me take a moment to be selfish and talk about my own experience being a child of Chinese immigrants, because this memoir really made me reflect on it, specifically when it comes to language. Though I’ve always known I started speaking more English when I began school as a child, I recently learned that one of the main reasons I stopped speaking Cantonese at home was for the sake of my adoptive father, a white man my mother married when I was very young, someone who was feeling left out of conversations he couldn’t understand. Last year, I started taking Cantonese lessons with an online teacher, the first time I’ve really tried to sit down to study the language formally, and I haven’t told anyone in my family about it. This is because my mother chastises almost every attempt I make to utter a Cantonese syllable, always teasing me with comments about how American I sound. The phobia that Meline forms as a child around speaking Armenian, largely a fear grown from using a different dialect than the larger Armenian immigrant community around her, really resonated with me. There is this dichotomy of shame I related to - shame for using my native language the “wrong” way, and shame for refusing to use it at all. It speaks to this larger challenge of people trying to hold onto their own identities and find community while assimilating to a new culture.

This memoir gave me so much insight on how difficult this challenge is for the Armenian diaspora in particular, for they’re so spread out all over the world. I didn’t realize before, but less than a third of the Armenian population actually lives in the country itself. I guess I find it kind of baffling every time I learn more about a particular population’s rich history, in all their triumphs and suffering. It reminds me just how big the world is, and I wonder why we don’t all try to learn more about the diverse cultures around us and connect with people from them. I feel we all have a lot to teach each other.

In the case of Meline’s journey in particular, she sought to understand specifically a people whose relationship with Armenians, I’ve learned, has become inextricable from the Armenian identity itself. Her goal to understand Turks through living in their country is shown to be seen as controversial by many people in her personal and public life at various points in the book. But after reading this work in its entirety, I think Meline presents a lot of important ideas for people to reflect upon. It is easy to fall into tribalism and the habit of sorting the world’s many complexities into more easily digestible binaries and absolutes. There is our people, and then there is the enemy. There was a genocide, and there was not. There is a good Armenian, and there is a bad one. The only friend of a Turk is a Turk. Meline navigates each of these ideas (and many more) with grace, curiosity, and empathy. I really admire the way she challenges the roots and responses to prejudices. The goal is to not fall victim to blind hatred of an entire people, to understand ourselves and others as complete individuals while also recognizing how institutions and systems are unfortunately built to disenfranchise marginalized groups. Meline’s journalism background gives her experience a scholastic approach which I appreciate, but she also doesn’t shy away from having unfailingly human, emotional responses to events and interactions.

I’m grateful to have read this book. If you made it this far into my review, I hope you consider reading it too. I certainly learned and reflected a lot from it. Thank you to the friend who recommended it to me. I feel like I understand a little bit more about how your brain works each time I read one of your favorite books. What an interesting language that is in and of itself.

-----
P. S. Meline’s family immigrated from Tehran to New Jersey because her dad got a job at Bell Labs. That means he worked at the location where Severance is filmed! Wow. Got a real Lumon guy over here. /j

[Hannah · Rating 5 out of 5]

By random chance I chose this out of my “to read” pile on April 24–Armenian Genocide Remembrance Day. I had forgotten what the book was about since buying it, so I also didn’t remember that it isn’t fiction. Though I wasn’t feeling ready at first to deal with a memoir/travelogue/deep personal journey of discovery, challenge, everything beyond, I do feel that it’s one of the most interesting books I’ve read in a long long time. Toumani does her absolute best to look at Turkish and Armenian history and relations from many different angles and it results in a fantastic book.

[Claire · Rating 4 out of 5]

An engaging exploration of the identity-defining power of collective trauma, the problem with the contact hypothesis, and the overwhelming power of autocracy. Discussions about the diaspora/home national relationship were particularly interesting. Unfortunately the author couldn’t get through the book without expressing her apparent Zionist perspective.

[Gin Jenny (Reading the End) · Rating 3 out of 5]

Identity is a complex and infinitely divisible monster. (Fight me sometime over the legitimacy of my claim to Southern-girl identity.) In the fascinating first few chapters of There Was and There Was Not: A Journey Through Hate and Possibility in Turkey, Armenia, and Beyond, Meline Toumani explores the close bonds among diaspora Armenians, as well as the oodles of ways they have found of distinguishing themselves from each other: speakers of Western Armenian vs. speakers of Eastern Armenian, Armenians from Lebanon vs. from Brazil vs. from Turkey vs. from actual Armenia. What they share in common is a mistrust of Turks and a passionate desire to make the Turks and the world recognize the Armenian genocide.

Hostility toward Turkey came in various forms, but in the American suburbs opportunities for conflict were limited, so it skewed toward the trivial. We . . . steered clear of shops rumored to have Turkish owners, and refused to buy products labeled “Made in Turkey.” My mother once spent weeks trying to buy a new bathrobe, but at store after store, every robe declared its Turkish origins; the Turks had cornered the market on terry cloth. One evening, my mom returned home, exhausted, with a large bag from Sears. “Don’t tell anyone,” she warned me. She clipped the label and then held out her plush, pale yellow purchase.

At some point, the kneejerk hatred of Turks and all things Turkish began to make Toumani uncomfortable. She decided to set off on a journalism project — first articles, eventually this book — that would require her to spend time in Turkey, to learn the Turkish language, and to talk to Turkish people about the Armenian genocide.

The result is a wonderful illustration of my motto, People are more than just one thing. On one hand, the Turks Toumani meets are, as is common in Muslim countries, almost uniformly welcoming and kind: she refers to their “glorious hospitality” as an “enchantment [that] never really broke; it only stretched to accommodate new realizations.”

Because alongside this kindness sits a kind of resistance to historical truth that’s all too familiar if, for instance, you’ve ever participated in a conversation with white Americans about reparations for slavery. Many of the Turks tried to sidestep the conversation about Armenian genocide altogether. Those who did talk about it would tell Toumani of their own ancestral suffering, and then assure her that they did not always harp on the wrongs of the past, they wanted to move forward, and why couldn’t Armenians do the same? Or they would emphasize the commonalities between the Turks and the Armenians, and wonder why the Armenians insisted on being so combative, when really Turks and Armenians are fundamentally the same. It’s a masterpiece of misdirection.

Toumani set out to learn if Turks were the genocide-denying enemy of her upbringing, or if there was good to be found in them. The answer, of course, is that both are true, and the two things sit uncomfortably alongside each other. Toumani can feel the warmth of Turkish hospitality, which is a true thing that exists and a credit to the Turkish character, while also knowing that she is at all times an outsider in this culture, a person whose history the Turks will ferociously deny.

She doesn’t draw any conclusions about what can be done, or what the future holds, for the Turkish-Armenian ideological conflict. Their relationship status remains, for the foreseeable future, “It’s complicated.”

[Judie · Rating 5 out of 5]

Feuds, be them among family members, groups, or countries, can last for generations, passed on from parents to children, religious leaders to congregations, government to citizens. Quite often the causes and continuation are identical: One or both sides feel abused. The other refuses to acknowledge the action or apologize for it. And so it continues festering, infecting people after the original victims and perpetrators are long gone and the actual details of the original event may have been forgotten or distorted.
Born in Iran and raised in the United States, Meline Toumani was very conscious of her Armenian roots. They were reinforced by attending Armenian camps and by the April 24th annual day of remembrance of the Genocide by Turkey against the Armenians in 1915. Out of 2.5 million Armenians, who had lived there for two thousand years, between 1915 and 1923, eight hundred thousand to a million Armenians died. About thirty thousand Turks and Kurds were killed by Armenians. At the end, two hundred thousand Armenians remained and they were then expelled.
The Armenian genocide influenced later world political actions. A banner at UC Berkeley on April 24, 1998 read: “‘Who today remembers the extermination of the Armenians?’ SAID ADOLF HITLER.”
As an adult, she began to question whether the focus on the nearly one-hundred-near-old calamity was helping or hurting her people. “I wondered whether our obsession with genocide recognition was worth its emotional and psychological price....I wondered whether there was a way to honor a history without being suffocated by it, to belong to a community without conforming to it, a way to remember a genocide without perpetuating the kind of hatred that gave rise to it in the first place.” There were political actions in many places, including the U.S. Congress, to garner recognition of the event. While they were largely successful, the efforts were complicated by Turkey’s insistence that there never was a genocide.
A journalist, she decided to go to Turkey to understand the Turks and learn what could be done to get beyond the suspicion, fear, hatred and anger. She talked to Turks about what they knew about and thought about the Armenians and the genocide as well as to Armenians about how current diaspora actions and events affected the Armenians living outside of Armenia. How the history is remembered and taught on both sides had great impact on each.
She discussed how the perpetrators of violence on either side are celebrated as heroes and what happens when one side claims the other was responsible for its own problems.
The Turks and the Armenians are not the only people who share this fate. In the United States, the Native Americans and the Blacks have had similar experiences dealing with the majority White population. The Israelis and Palestinian conflicts are always on the news.
THERE WAS AND THERE WAS NOT is her story of what she learned and how it affected her.
I usually finish reading a book in a couple of days. It took me more than a week to read THERE WAS AND THERE WAS NOT because I wanted to mull over what I was reading and I didn’t want the book to end.
I received an advance copy of this book through LibraryThing.

[dantelk · Rating 5 out of 5]

This one was a good read.

I was skeptic before the start, maybe expecting something lighter. Instead, I found the narrator to be well equipped about the subject, with good observations about the political, cultural issues. The author is also talented for literature, and the book was never boring for me even for a moment.

The interviews she made were bold, maybe sometimes bit naive, but it was definetely intresting to read about meeting with Halaçoğlu. I would say all the major characters I've heared of the Armenian issue were quoted in this text, and for someone living in Turkey, I found many chapters refreshening and eye opening to read (For example about the Akdamar Churh).

Toumani's emotions about Turkey are mixed, but I could easily emphatize with her about those, and she is clear about what was going in her mind through the text.

Some years ago I had been to Armenia to witness the 24th April events themselves, and I was so suprised to come acroess the massive crowd, gathering at the meorial site. I actually never knew that the whole thing was so alive and important for the Armenians; definetely my ignorance but, I've always tought it to be a minor event. I think we are still a long way from understanding each other's political and emotional stand, and we have to work harder. I don't know if this book will grant anyone that privilage, but it was a joy to read Meline's own struggle to take action about the situation. I think I am the first Turkish reviewer (figuring by the names), and the only drawback is that no translation of this text exists. And Meline Hanım, I had to download your book from dark web, hope you'll forgive me (Olsun???!!!). This book could be especially reccomended to Turkish readers, since the names and places they'll encounter will be very familiar, and they may discover their mutual feelings with the author about some topics discussed.

Oh, and I quote I liked a lot: "...I know that if somebody tells you that you belong to a terrible group of people, you will reject every single word that follows with all the force of your mind and spirit. What if somebody says to you that your history is ugly, your history is not heroic, your history does not have beauty in it? Not only that, you don’t know your history. What you have been taught by your mother and your father and your teachers, it’s false. You will retreat to a bomb shelter in your brain, collapse inward to protect yourself, because what has been said to you is nothing less than that your entire understanding of who you are is in danger. They will have said to you that your existence is without value. You, who wondered now and then what the meaning of your life was, who made a soft landing place for those worries by allowing yourself to feel a certain richness about where you came from and who and what came before you, will be left empty. The story you thought you were a part of does not exist. Neither do you exist..."

[Trish Remley · Rating 4 out of 5]

I enjoyed this book on several levels and was upset on many levels. After going to Turkey last year, it was fun to remember and relive so many of the unique customs & people's personalities. Also some of the customs that I did not experience myself, but that Eileen has talked about like going to have soup late at night after a night out or lowering a basket down on a rope with money and the local store bringing you the food or goods you need. Then there is the Armenian issue and how Turkey will not recognize the genocide of 1.5 million Armenians in 1915 at the end of the Ottoman Empire. How on April 14, every year President Obama will talk about this issue, but will never use the word genocide because the US does not want to upset the Turks and our relations with Turkey. I did not realize how many Armenians are in the US, how they keep their communities alive and that many of the children go to summer camp, in Massachusetts in this instance, and learn about this issue. In the US (as well as Turkey), the Turks and Armenians do not mix. It seems that some small steps have been made in relations, but here it is 100 years later and in Turkey if you ask most Turks about this issue they will either not know about it, or they feel it was a justified "war" because of issues and aggression on both sides. The Armenians are not totally exempt in that over the years they have assassinated Turks throughout the world. In the museums of history in Turkey, you will not find one word about this relationship. It was very interesting to see the roller coaster of emotions and reasoning of the author. It's all very sad and just another horrible example of mankind. I loved my visit to Turkey and the Turkish people were so helpful and genuinely nice. A few perpetuate the hate for all by not admitting to what truly happened. This history exists over and over and over again. Even in Turkey - what about the Kurds and the Greeks.

[Karenn · Rating 5 out of 5]

Toumani, like many diasporan Armenians, is raised in a close-knit family within the larger Armenian community. Upon the realization that much of her identity as an Armenian-American is based on the Armenian Genocide, which has left her with a mistrust of anything Turkish, she decides to actually move to Istanbul, learn Turkish, and live among Turks for two years. Her experiences show her both how much she has in common with at least certain segments of the Turkish population, such the many Kurds she befriends, but also how it feels to be a second-class citizen in a country where the best things anyone can say about an Armenian is to admit that they might be a good person because they "didn't choose to be born Armenian". The book asks difficult questions and even manages to answer several of them: whether it is possible to have an honest or even diplomatic relationship with someone if common history is unacknowledged or disputed, what effect a Genocide Resolution in the US would have upon Turkey and the Armenians living there, and what--if anything--holds together Armenian identity if not for the Genocide.

[Karen · Rating 5 out of 5]

There Was and Their Was Not is a memoir by a Armenian American woman who felt constrained and suffocated by the Armenian community's quest for recognition of the genocide. Hoping to understand the Turkish perspective and connect with authenticity and understanding she spends several years in Turkey. This is a book about individual identity in the context of community especially where there has been historical and present day trauma. Ms. Toumani's time in Turkey was filled with challenges given Turkey's intransigence over this issue and the laws and policies used to silence the Armenian people. The memoir was beautifully written, full of rich detail, historical review and emotional depth. It is hard to imagine how a person who is a minority could only be defined as an individual without community context (maybe nobody really can). I would not want this yet Ms. Toumani's struggle to do so is poignant and real.I read this book for the Early Reviewers program in LibraryThing.

[Alyce · Rating 4 out of 5]

"There was and there was not" is the "Once upon a time" of Turkey and Armenia, and it's the perfect title for Tourmani's exquisite exploration into the relationship between facts and feeling in the telling of history- in this case, of the 1915 death of 1 1/2 million Armenians under Ottoman rule. Although I am neither Turkish nor Armenian, I found that the marriage of the author's rare insight, honesty, wisdom, objectivity, exhaustive research and superb storytelling created a riveting narrative that no thinking person should miss.