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Kathleen Hale Is a Crazy Stalker
In six essays united by a common theme, Kathleen Hale traces some of the most treacherous fault lines in modern America—from sexual assault to Internet trolling, from environmental illness to our own animal nature. In these wide-ranging pieces, Hale proves herself to be an exhilarating new voice whose writing is both fearless and profound.
In “First I Got Pregnant. Then I Decided to Kill the Mountain Lion,” Hale recounts the month she spent tracking a wild cat lost in the Hollywood Hills while pregnant; in “Prey,” she tells the troubling story of her sexual assault as a freshman in college; other essays recount the mesmerizing stories of a trip to hunt wild hogs in Florida, and a standoff with an anonymous blogger. On the surface, Hale’s writing is deeply personal, but these essays also tell thought-provoking stories of predators and prey. Taking no prisoners and fearing no subject matter, Kathleen Hale wields razor-sharp wit, uncommon levels of empathy, and daring honesty, even in detailing some of the most difficult moments of her life.
Hilarious, candid, and sometimes unsettling, Kathleen Hale Is a Crazy Stalker introduces an arresting and unusual new voice for this strange American century.
In “First I Got Pregnant. Then I Decided to Kill the Mountain Lion,” Hale recounts the month she spent tracking a wild cat lost in the Hollywood Hills while pregnant; in “Prey,” she tells the troubling story of her sexual assault as a freshman in college; other essays recount the mesmerizing stories of a trip to hunt wild hogs in Florida, and a standoff with an anonymous blogger. On the surface, Hale’s writing is deeply personal, but these essays also tell thought-provoking stories of predators and prey. Taking no prisoners and fearing no subject matter, Kathleen Hale wields razor-sharp wit, uncommon levels of empathy, and daring honesty, even in detailing some of the most difficult moments of her life.
Hilarious, candid, and sometimes unsettling, Kathleen Hale Is a Crazy Stalker introduces an arresting and unusual new voice for this strange American century.
176 pages, Hardcover
First published June 4, 2019
19 people are currently reading
478 people want to read
About the author
Kathleen Hale
5 books274 followersKathleen Hale was born in Wisconsin and graduated from Harvard in 2010. She is the author of two novels, NO ONE ELSE CAN HAVE YOU and NOTHING BAD IS GOING TO HAPPEN (the latter is forthcoming from HarperTeen in 2015). She also writes pieces for places like Vice.com. One of her personal essays, "Quit Everything," will appear in the collection NEVER CAN SAY GOODBYE, forthcoming from Simon and Schuster this fall.
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January 4, 2019Who the fuck in publishing decided the woman who stalked a reviewer, paid for a background check on them, took their address from a publishing database & turned up at their house over a one star review should write a book about it??
And meanwhile good people with great books can’t even get agents/get published?? This is a mess
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jennaguillau...
https://www.killyourdarlings.com.au/2...
And meanwhile good people with great books can’t even get agents/get published?? This is a mess
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jennaguillau...
https://www.killyourdarlings.com.au/2...
January 3, 2019
nope nope nope nope nope nope aaaand nope.
Profiting off of the trama you put a goodreads reviewer through because she rated your terrible book low? nope. nope. how is this getting published? FUCK NO.
Profiting off of the trama you put a goodreads reviewer through because she rated your terrible book low? nope. nope. how is this getting published? FUCK NO.
June 4, 2019
Remember #HALENO:
She stalked a blogger here on GRs for a 1 star review of her book, and showed up at the blogger/reviewer's house to confront her, and bragged about the stalking.
NEVER FORGET:
https://smartbitchestrashybooks.com/2...
https://www.bustle.com/articles/44927...
https://jezebel.com/author-stalks-ano...
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jennaguillau...
UPDATE: Kathleen Hale hasn't learned anything. This interview with enrage readers and authors alike. She ignores that fact she stalked a reviewer and still blames that reviewer https://bookpage.com/interviews/24029...
She stalked a blogger here on GRs for a 1 star review of her book, and showed up at the blogger/reviewer's house to confront her, and bragged about the stalking.
NEVER FORGET:
https://smartbitchestrashybooks.com/2...
https://www.bustle.com/articles/44927...
https://jezebel.com/author-stalks-ano...
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jennaguillau...
UPDATE: Kathleen Hale hasn't learned anything. This interview with enrage readers and authors alike. She ignores that fact she stalked a reviewer and still blames that reviewer https://bookpage.com/interviews/24029...
January 3, 2019
Well I finally found the book that earns the second spot on my “Not if you fucking paid me” shelf. Seriously this woman stalks a reviewer all the way to her house and now she’s trying to make money out of it?
Fuck this book and fuck the publisher who is putting it out in the world!
Fuck this book and fuck the publisher who is putting it out in the world!
January 3, 2019
Hell. No.
I rarely blog anymore, but Kathleen Hale's decision to stalk a reviewer is forever burned into my brain. It happened just as I started blogging - and I don't think I'll ever forget how her actions silenced a funny, beloved, snarky blogger.
Criminal behavior shouldn't be rewarded with a book deal.
I rarely blog anymore, but Kathleen Hale's decision to stalk a reviewer is forever burned into my brain. It happened just as I started blogging - and I don't think I'll ever forget how her actions silenced a funny, beloved, snarky blogger.
Criminal behavior shouldn't be rewarded with a book deal.
thank-u-next
January 4, 2019Well, If I were the author I would be so happy for the following reasons:
This book made history as GR's lowest rated book
Too many profiles who gave this 1 star and that means many people to stalk and thus many future book to write!!
People are making shelves exclusively for this book. Take mine for example: I called it Thank U, Next and it is an exclusive shelf.
I guess we can all say congratulations?? 🎉🎉
This book made history as GR's lowest rated book
Too many profiles who gave this 1 star and that means many people to stalk and thus many future book to write!!
People are making shelves exclusively for this book. Take mine for example: I called it Thank U, Next and it is an exclusive shelf.
I guess we can all say congratulations?? 🎉🎉
not-gonna-happen-because-reasons
February 27, 2019From the synopsis:
In these six extraordinary essays, Hale proves herself to be an exhilarating new voice whose commentaries on womanhood, obsession, and the Internet are both hilarious and profound.
There is absolutely NOTHING hilarious nor profound about this author trying to monetize the very real and VERY SCARY fact that she stalked a reviewer online and then SHOWED UP AT THE REVIEWER'S HOME simply because they gave her book a one star review!!!
Shame on the author. And SHAME ON THE PUBLISHER. This is setting a disgusting precedent.
As a reviewer, and simply as a human being, to say I'm appalled is a severe understatement.
For a fuller picture, below are links to some articles regarding the incident.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jennaguillau...
https://www.bustle.com/articles/44927...
https://smartbitchestrashybooks.com/2...
https://jezebel.com/author-stalks-ano...
January 4, 2019
Words cannot describe my utter fury.
Blythe deserves better.
Also, I thought it was illegal in America to profit off a crime? Hale was never taken to court, but stalking is still a crime.
Blythe deserves better.
Also, I thought it was illegal in America to profit off a crime? Hale was never taken to court, but stalking is still a crime.
June 8, 2019
UPDATE 6/7/19:
Someone was kind enough to make a Twitter thread of photos capturing many pages of this book, which I read from there. I ain’t spending money on this. I’m not sure if I read the entire thing, but I did read a complete story of the situation involved Kathleen literally stalking a reviewer who gave her book one star. And..... it’s a fuckin trip. I do, however, want to mention that Kathleen cites that she experienced a mental breakdown from this whole ordeal, which I am genuinely sorry happened to her.
BUT, her side of the story very much paints her to be a victim. People she mentioned have come forward saying she fabricated the story in her favor and used certain language to make them look much worse than they really were. I believe that (mostly because those other people came with RECEIPTS or genuine, rational clarifications). Her account of everything that happened (even if its real to her and she does not see an issue with it) is very entitled and, in all honesty, delusional. Her behavior, even when she wrote it in a way that tried to make her look mostly innocent, was unacceptable and wrong.
She genuinely did stalk that reviewer. Over a ONE STAR REVIEW OF HER BOOK. She obsessively tried to figure out their identity. She contacted fucking Nev from Catfish several times to get his opinion. She paid for a background check on them. She went to their house. She contacted the reviewer at their job, MORE THAN ONCE, DEMANDING answers she honestly had no business receiving. She stalked their social media. She obsessively scrutinized everything they did. And when people in the industry gave her advice on the situation, she ignored them. What Kathleen did was terrifying and wrong. There is no excuse for that behavior.
I’m glad I read it so I now know, truly, that this situation was real. I stand by my previous review. I hope Kathleen gets the help she desperately needs, and the people she affected are healed or are on the path to doing so.
———————
I usually don't do petty stuff like this, but this author stalked and tormented a reviewer who gave her novel 1 star and now she's attempting to... profit off of it?
As a reader, this is scary, bizarre, and really f*cking gross. Authors should NEVER harass readers, or even CONTACT readers, in regards to their review of the book they wrote. It's unethical and also just... really inappropriate? Like, hello?
As an aspiring writer, this is so disheartening and again, gross. There are so many incredible books and authors out there just waiting for their chance, but the publishing industry is really planning on wasting their resources for some petty bullshit like this? It's a really bad look for this publisher. No one wants to read a book about something as spiteful and disgusting as this.
It's creepy and it's wrong. CLEARLY the author did not learn her lesson, and this makes her an even shittier person than I originally thought! Please do not support this book or this author! Let's support books that are genuinely good and not riddled with immaturity such as this, and writers who behave professionally and are passionate about their stories rather than the opinion of others.
Someone was kind enough to make a Twitter thread of photos capturing many pages of this book, which I read from there. I ain’t spending money on this. I’m not sure if I read the entire thing, but I did read a complete story of the situation involved Kathleen literally stalking a reviewer who gave her book one star. And..... it’s a fuckin trip. I do, however, want to mention that Kathleen cites that she experienced a mental breakdown from this whole ordeal, which I am genuinely sorry happened to her.
BUT, her side of the story very much paints her to be a victim. People she mentioned have come forward saying she fabricated the story in her favor and used certain language to make them look much worse than they really were. I believe that (mostly because those other people came with RECEIPTS or genuine, rational clarifications). Her account of everything that happened (even if its real to her and she does not see an issue with it) is very entitled and, in all honesty, delusional. Her behavior, even when she wrote it in a way that tried to make her look mostly innocent, was unacceptable and wrong.
She genuinely did stalk that reviewer. Over a ONE STAR REVIEW OF HER BOOK. She obsessively tried to figure out their identity. She contacted fucking Nev from Catfish several times to get his opinion. She paid for a background check on them. She went to their house. She contacted the reviewer at their job, MORE THAN ONCE, DEMANDING answers she honestly had no business receiving. She stalked their social media. She obsessively scrutinized everything they did. And when people in the industry gave her advice on the situation, she ignored them. What Kathleen did was terrifying and wrong. There is no excuse for that behavior.
I’m glad I read it so I now know, truly, that this situation was real. I stand by my previous review. I hope Kathleen gets the help she desperately needs, and the people she affected are healed or are on the path to doing so.
———————
I usually don't do petty stuff like this, but this author stalked and tormented a reviewer who gave her novel 1 star and now she's attempting to... profit off of it?
As a reader, this is scary, bizarre, and really f*cking gross. Authors should NEVER harass readers, or even CONTACT readers, in regards to their review of the book they wrote. It's unethical and also just... really inappropriate? Like, hello?
As an aspiring writer, this is so disheartening and again, gross. There are so many incredible books and authors out there just waiting for their chance, but the publishing industry is really planning on wasting their resources for some petty bullshit like this? It's a really bad look for this publisher. No one wants to read a book about something as spiteful and disgusting as this.
It's creepy and it's wrong. CLEARLY the author did not learn her lesson, and this makes her an even shittier person than I originally thought! Please do not support this book or this author! Let's support books that are genuinely good and not riddled with immaturity such as this, and writers who behave professionally and are passionate about their stories rather than the opinion of others.
January 3, 2019
Are you fucking kidding me... others have linked and documented all the shit this author did and the fact that this is being published is a joke.
zzzzz-did-not-finish
August 5, 2019tfw the title is a little too accurate
Okay like. It's been months but honest to god I have a thing to say about this. I'm upset this author still views herself as the victim of this scenario. She was not. A Goodreads reviewer wrote an honest review of her book - a mean one, perhaps, but who gives a shit? She responded by stalking this reviewer and publicly calling her a troll for years because she had. a fake name. A fake name. On her Goodreads profile. Somehow, this justifies stalking her to the point of going to her actual house.
I really hope Madam Katherine Hale realizes that Goodreads reviewers are not like, duplicitous evil people for hiding their real names. I really hope she knows that. There's this thing about internet safety.
Like actually. If you want to write a brilliant novel about realizing you were in the wrong I actually don't give a shit. Go do that. But it is so so out of line to play the victim in this situation and act as if it was blown out of proportion. It was not. You went to the home of a random Goodreads reviewer and then not only did you do that, you chose to brag about it. Absolutely fucking ridiculous. The internet does not owe you profit over you stalking someone.
Okay like. It's been months but honest to god I have a thing to say about this. I'm upset this author still views herself as the victim of this scenario. She was not. A Goodreads reviewer wrote an honest review of her book - a mean one, perhaps, but who gives a shit? She responded by stalking this reviewer and publicly calling her a troll for years because she had. a fake name. A fake name. On her Goodreads profile. Somehow, this justifies stalking her to the point of going to her actual house.
I really hope Madam Katherine Hale realizes that Goodreads reviewers are not like, duplicitous evil people for hiding their real names. I really hope she knows that. There's this thing about internet safety.
Like actually. If you want to write a brilliant novel about realizing you were in the wrong I actually don't give a shit. Go do that. But it is so so out of line to play the victim in this situation and act as if it was blown out of proportion. It was not. You went to the home of a random Goodreads reviewer and then not only did you do that, you chose to brag about it. Absolutely fucking ridiculous. The internet does not owe you profit over you stalking someone.
ceci-n-est-ce-pas-un-compte-rendu
May 28, 2019NOW AVAILABLE!! for what it's worth...
the BALLS on this one!
although, given the contemporary trend of people being rewarded/promoted/being given keys to a country after proving themselves to be made up of snips n' snails n' antisocial behavior n' terrible decision-making, i suppose this book was inevitable.
i do not think its ratings will be high here on goodreads.
the BALLS on this one!
although, given the contemporary trend of people being rewarded/promoted/being given keys to a country after proving themselves to be made up of snips n' snails n' antisocial behavior n' terrible decision-making, i suppose this book was inevitable.
i do not think its ratings will be high here on goodreads.
July 25, 2019
I ACTUALLY READ THE BOOK!
In case you’re curious to read a review by someone who actually read it and knows what is contained within (and what the quality of those contents is), I’m your guy. Most other reviews here seem based on “Hell No!” rather than looking at the material.
Deciding to pass on a book is totally valid, but I’m not sure I feel the same way about one-starring a book that you’ve never read.
People, we don’t need to all notify each other that we’re NOT doing something that we find distasteful. When a flat-Earther convention is happening in town, I don’t need to tell everyone that I’m not going, just in case someone was worried that I was. When a public figure says something stupid and abhorrent online, I don’t need to raise my hand and say, “Just so you know, I disagree.” Go ahead and just assume that I’m not an idiot badguy. Likewise, there are like a billion books on Goodreads. It’s a mathematically safe assumption that any individual is not reading any random book on Goodreads at any given time, let alone one they might have good reason to avoid. Before we even get into the weirdness of this book, just based on pure math, I would assume that nobody is reading this book at any given time.
But hey, there’s plenty of time for me to lose friends on Goodreads with this review without telling you how to live your life, so let’s get into it.
THE BOOK
This is a solid book of essays. My feelings on the events come in a bit, but if you’re looking for an essayist with a young perspective, writing flair, and voice-y style, Kathleen Hale is your lady. I can’t sully her good name based on writing merit. If you’re a person who subscribes to “trust the art, not the artist,” there’s a lot of good to find in this book. There’s an essay on rape and consent that’s really quite good and should be getting more attention than it is.
The essays vary, Hale keeps it short and sweet, and the writing feels like it comes from an original voice that I wouldn’t mind hearing more of. In every essay she’s in a situation that I will never find myself in (pregnant, visiting a community for people with poorly defined environmental allergies), and she does a great job as a storyteller helping me understand the emotions and situations.
Clarity is one of my most-valued qualities in writing. Making clear a situation involving emotions and actions that Hale herself doesn’t fully understand isn’t the easiest thing in the world, and I think she manages to do it across the board here.
I liked it. Not totally my wheelhouse, but she’s a good writer, the subjects are interesting, and I was entertained while I read. That checks the boxes for me.
THE CONTROVERSY
If you’re wondering what the hell everyone is talking about and why this book is titled the way it is, Kathleen Hale “stalked” a Goodreads reviewer who gave her a poor review on a previous book, going so far as to show up on the reviewer’s doorstep. Which is why everyone on GR is in a tizzy about this book’s very existence.
The controversial essay itself is pretty damn interesting, and it presents a story that’s different from the one I’d heard a couple years ago. Because I assume most people aren’t going to take the time to read it, I’ll highlight some of the stuff I didn’t know about. Keep in mind, this is all based Hale’s version of events, not a heavily researched dive I did into the case as part of a true crime podcast I’m starting that explores crimes that might not actually be crimes. I think we’ll last 3 episodes.
While the reviewer, Blythe, was presented as a victim of an insane author who was enraged about a book review, this isn’t exactly how it played out. According to Hale’s account, “Blythe” was catfishing in a non-romantic context, was well-known amongst authors for blackballing different books/writers, was putting up a completely false face (which isn’t a problem in itself, but she was claiming that she was very transparent and authentic while being the opposite), and may or may not have been engaging in some light identity theft (claiming someone else’s physical images, but not their social security number or money). The bad review prompted Hale’s interest, but it was only the opening to an internet rabbit hole that led her to a sort of Goodreads mafia of people who were a lot like Blythe. According to Hale, these are not just her opinions, and her thoughts and theories were confirmed by other authors and by social media people from publishing houses who warned her off of interacting with Blythe in any way.
The review itself was, again, according to Hale, objectively incorrect and based on only the first chapter of her book. It also attacked Hale, as a person, calling her a rape apologist and slut shamer. Not Hale's book, Hale.
I’m not here to blame the victim (Blythe). If you reviewed a book poorly, even savagely, and an author showed up on your doorstep, you’d be right to be extremely upset. I recognize there’s a line here. However, using your internet clout to ruin authors’ careers and attacking their character starts you scooting out of the realm of hapless victim, a simple reviewer of literature. It’s disingenuous to say Hale’s action is the result of simply getting a bad review.
I’m walking a line here, and I know it. But hear me for a second: If someone gets a poor performance review at work, that’s a tough thing. I’d say that’s the equivalent of getting a bad review of your book. If someone finds out that there is a group of individuals who are conspiring to get them fired (for totally subjective reasons), that’s a different level, and I think that those individuals play a role in subsequent events. While I don’t think it’s a good idea for the person being conspired against to show up at anyone’s house, it would be lying for the person who answered the door to say that this person was acting in a completely unreasonable fashion. Disproportionate? Yes. Stupid? Yes. Completely out of nowhere, without provocation, I barely know the guy? Well, no.
As far as the visit itself, you should know this comes after multiple attempts to talk to Blythe online. Hale, when she was offered an interview where she could pick her interviewer, tried to get Blythe to interview her. She tried to call her. These are weird things to do, totally, but something missing from the story as it was originally told is the escalation, which gives important context.
Quick aside for anyone who thinks context doesn’t matter: Woman A killed her loving, doting husband because she wanted to collect life insurance money, Woman B killed her husband in self-defense after a long marriage that involved some serious physical abuse. No difference?
The essay itself is more focused on Hale hitting a personally-identified rock bottom, and of how cyberbullying (for lack of a better term) plays out in the world of adults. I don’t remember these other parts before, but after the stalking, Hale made a pretty serious suicide attempt, sawing at her wrists with a knife, and wound up in an institution of some sort. I include these details because I think it’s important to note that Hale doesn’t seem to be defending herself or saying that what she did was justified. The essay, in my opinion, is not a defense of herself or an attack on Blythe. It’s an essay about the worst thing Hale ever did. If someone made an anthology based on the theme of “This is the worst thing I ever did,” I’d be interested.
Now I’m going to defend Kathleen Hale. Just a little bit. She didn’t defend herself, possibly because she didn’t want to, possibly because it’s not a good look. But I’m not involved, so I’ll make a case.
Let’s start with the concept of Hale being rewarded with a book contract for stalking a reviewer.
I think she’s being rewarded for creating a piece of art, which is based on something she did. Which is a very common thing in art. Hunter S. Thompson made a career of writing about terrible shit. Most war memoirs involve some heinous stuff. Not everyone is interested in reading about these experiences, and that’s cool, but I am definitely interested, and I don’t really care about narratives that present the narrator as perfect out-of-the-box. I read this as a very complicated situation, and people that find themselves in complicated situations act in complicated ways. The story of a writer who ignores bad reviews isn’t a story. It’s not interesting. Stories of people behaving morally can be inspiring, but they’re not the only kind of story, and I would hate to see only those stories exist in the world. If narratives don’t include true transgressions and bad decisions and actions, every person who has done something bad (or, everyone) has no narrative to look towards.
People can never seek redemption if they’re condemned for confessing.
I also fail to see how it’s okay for Buzzfeed to profit from the story but not Hale. If this story can acceptably exist next to a quiz where you pick a type of cake and find out which Hogwarts house you belong in, or in a follow-up essay that (I counted) has about a dozen ads peppered throughout, it can also exist in a well-crafted longform essay, in a book of essays. Plus, I don't know how much you all think writers get paid these days, but trust me, this book is not making Kathleen Hale a wealthy lady.
A lot of Blythe’s defenders will invoke a reviewer’s right to express their opinion, and I agree with that. However, you can’t defend one person’s right to their opinion and not someone else’s. The bad behavior is in showing up on Blythe’s doorstep. Writing an essay about it is, in my opinion, artistic expression based on an event that, though indefensible, is not a crime. I could be completely wrong about this, but I don't think Hale showed up on Blythe's doorstep to write an essay about it. You might feel differently, and that's cool. After reading this book, I feel like the essay came after some pretty serious reflection, and it would be tough to convince me that Hale had this terrible saga with Blythe because she just needed some shit to write about.
By the way, if you’re disagreeing with all of this and enjoy True Crime, go ahead and fuck off. The very concept of True Crime is based around individuals who profit from the suffering of others.
There’s another aspect of this whole thing as well, which has to do with creating art and the intersection of online culture.
When you write, you’re basically told: Don’t read the reviews. Don’t read the tweets. Don’t.
At the same time, when you write, you HAVE to read the tweets and the reviews. Your publisher WILL all but force you to get a Goodreads profile, get on Twitter, get on Instagram. I’ve submitted to publishers who specifically ask about your current social media clout in your submission form, presumably because if you’ve got a good following, they can reasonably expect that you’ll make for a good return on their investment.
It’s a rock and a hard place from the get-go. You can’t just avoid it entirely (as a note, Hale wasn’t even using social media before her book came out), you’re supposed to interact with fans, be authentic, and sell. And you’re supposed to have the superpower possessed by exactly no one: Completely ignore the negative shit. If you interact with negative reviews, you’re seen as a loser with nothing better to do than...seeing what people thought of something you worked hard on. Caring about it.
You have to interact, but nobody has to interact with you. When someone leaves that flaming bag of dog shit review on your porch, you have no choice but to open the door and breathe in the fumes.
The closest I came to anything like this on Goodreads was this time I almost, ALMOST clicked “Like” on a 1-star review of a book of poems I wrote. Because my first instinct was that I wanted the person who put the 1 star to know that I saw it, know that there is a real person who made that and has feelings about it.
I clicked on this person’s profile. I looked at how other books were rated. I went that far and stopped.
Luckily, I made the smart decision and let it go. BUT, what you should know is that decision basically amounts to, “I decided to just internalize my feelings, not express them, and do the unhealthiest emotional thing that people always tell you not to do by pretending that someone who said they strongly disliked what I did never said it, it didn’t affect me, and I’ll just smile and bliss out.”
Let’s be honest, when you put a pic on Instagram, how often do you check back for likes? How often have you put something up and thought, “What the hell, how come so-and-so didn’t like it? What does that mean?” Have you ever crafted a killer tweet and been disappointed that nobody laughed?
Now, imagine you spent several years putting something together, only for someone to tell you how terrible it is, how terrible you are, and what a piece of shit you’ve made. Take the amount of time you put into throwing something up in Instagram, multiply the effort by a few years, add in the fact that a novel is much closer to your sore spot than an Instragram pic, and then think about how you’d feel not only with a lack of attention, but from yahoos weighing in with their negative attention.
And keep in mind, if you end up making a life via social media, a skillset involved is dealing with assholes online. Sort of like making a career in HR means you have to be able to fire people. If you make a living as an author, dealing with assholes online is not necessarily your skillset.
Authors are not authors because they are immune to criticism. We don’t take classes where someone teaches us how to be good at taking shit. We don’t get any special meditation lessons or mantras or anything like that. We don't write books because we discovered we have no feelings about our work once it's published.
Now, I’ll say that I’ve learned A LOT about taking criticism from workshopping. But that’s different. In a workshop, for the most part, you’re working with people who have your best interest in mind, who want to help you create the best version of your work. That’s really different from someone saying you’re a shithead because you wrote a novel they don’t like. There’s a difference between someone saying your character voice is inconsistent and someone leaving you an Amazon review that says, “if you are reading this comment, you are the most screwed up person ever... i cant beleive anyone would write such a useless piece of crap. i was looking to see if anyone preserved the nintendo power magazines... and this piece of excrement comes up. wts. screw the person who write this book... what the crap…” Real Amazon review of one of my books, by the way.
In a workshop, face to face, people learn that if they are assholes without reason, nobody will want to workshop with them next week. If you’ve been ghosted by your workshop, it’s probably because you acted more interested in writing a scathing review than you did in helping others with their work. Online, you can act however you want, and it doesn't matter. Just move on to the next thing.
I don’t disagree with the idea that it requires some serious maturity to write books and open them up for criticism. That said, I don’t think that releasing a book excuses any and all behavior online. Authors putting their books in print and online means it’s open season? If they didn’t want to take shit, they wouldn’t publish? That stinks of “Well, if they didn’t want comments on their body, they wouldn’t dress that way.”
How to put this…
When I see a video online of a little kid teasing a cat, when the cat takes a swipe at the kid, I’m not devastated. There are better ways for kids to learn the lines with animals, I’m not rooting for the kid to lose an eye, but I think it’s a very natural part of life to experience something like this as a way of learning limits.
While I wouldn’t go to a reviewer’s house (obviously as I decided against even clicking the “like” on a 1-star review I got, I wouldn’t even go THAT far), there’s a part of me, and I recognize that this isn’t the most positive thing in the world, but there’s a part of me that isn’t so upset about the idea of someone bagging up the shit they were taking online and dumping that soggy bag on the sender’s doorstep. I don’t love the idea of someone showing up at someone else’s home, I don’t think this worked out well for anyone involved, but there is a part of me that doesn’t hate the idea that an author decided not to exist as a medium that absorbs criticism in a way that’s inhuman. That the author decided to assert the simple fact that she’s a real, human person, and if you want to go beyond criticizing her book and trash her career, I don’t know that the human person behind that career showing up and saying, “I exist, I’m real” is too great a consequence.
I say this as both someone who’s written books and someone who has written some harsh reviews.
It’s complicated. I don’t want reviewers to only say positive things because they’re scared. I don’t think people should disrupt each others’ expression. I do think it’s a very acceptable thing to negatively review a book, and I think it’s unacceptable to threaten someone for doing so.
And I think that’s what I really want to say about this book: It’s complicated. What happened is not as simple as this poor author was bullied online and reacted reasonably, and it’s not as simple as someone left a mildly negative review of a book and the author went Michael Myers on her. As with EVERYTHING, the story, as reported, is all fucked up. The reality is probably somewhere between the way it was reported and the way Kathleen Hale tells it. And I don’t know how you find the center without going to the poles and deciding for yourself.
That’s why I’d encourage people to read the essay. If you don’t want to “encourage bad behavior,” that’s cool. Pick up the book, read it, don’t buy it. Pick it up at your library, read it, and don’t actually check it out. Put it right back on the shelf. If you’re super opposed to supporting what you see as a negative, there are still ways you can avail yourself of the information and make your own choice. Don’t let Buzzfeed tell you what’s true, don’t let Goodreads reviewers tell you what’s true. Read and then decide.
I hope that telling Goodreads people to read and make their own decision isn’t offensive. If so, I don’t even know what the fuck is going on anymore.
In case you’re curious to read a review by someone who actually read it and knows what is contained within (and what the quality of those contents is), I’m your guy. Most other reviews here seem based on “Hell No!” rather than looking at the material.
Deciding to pass on a book is totally valid, but I’m not sure I feel the same way about one-starring a book that you’ve never read.
People, we don’t need to all notify each other that we’re NOT doing something that we find distasteful. When a flat-Earther convention is happening in town, I don’t need to tell everyone that I’m not going, just in case someone was worried that I was. When a public figure says something stupid and abhorrent online, I don’t need to raise my hand and say, “Just so you know, I disagree.” Go ahead and just assume that I’m not an idiot badguy. Likewise, there are like a billion books on Goodreads. It’s a mathematically safe assumption that any individual is not reading any random book on Goodreads at any given time, let alone one they might have good reason to avoid. Before we even get into the weirdness of this book, just based on pure math, I would assume that nobody is reading this book at any given time.
But hey, there’s plenty of time for me to lose friends on Goodreads with this review without telling you how to live your life, so let’s get into it.
THE BOOK
This is a solid book of essays. My feelings on the events come in a bit, but if you’re looking for an essayist with a young perspective, writing flair, and voice-y style, Kathleen Hale is your lady. I can’t sully her good name based on writing merit. If you’re a person who subscribes to “trust the art, not the artist,” there’s a lot of good to find in this book. There’s an essay on rape and consent that’s really quite good and should be getting more attention than it is.
The essays vary, Hale keeps it short and sweet, and the writing feels like it comes from an original voice that I wouldn’t mind hearing more of. In every essay she’s in a situation that I will never find myself in (pregnant, visiting a community for people with poorly defined environmental allergies), and she does a great job as a storyteller helping me understand the emotions and situations.
Clarity is one of my most-valued qualities in writing. Making clear a situation involving emotions and actions that Hale herself doesn’t fully understand isn’t the easiest thing in the world, and I think she manages to do it across the board here.
I liked it. Not totally my wheelhouse, but she’s a good writer, the subjects are interesting, and I was entertained while I read. That checks the boxes for me.
THE CONTROVERSY
If you’re wondering what the hell everyone is talking about and why this book is titled the way it is, Kathleen Hale “stalked” a Goodreads reviewer who gave her a poor review on a previous book, going so far as to show up on the reviewer’s doorstep. Which is why everyone on GR is in a tizzy about this book’s very existence.
The controversial essay itself is pretty damn interesting, and it presents a story that’s different from the one I’d heard a couple years ago. Because I assume most people aren’t going to take the time to read it, I’ll highlight some of the stuff I didn’t know about. Keep in mind, this is all based Hale’s version of events, not a heavily researched dive I did into the case as part of a true crime podcast I’m starting that explores crimes that might not actually be crimes. I think we’ll last 3 episodes.
While the reviewer, Blythe, was presented as a victim of an insane author who was enraged about a book review, this isn’t exactly how it played out. According to Hale’s account, “Blythe” was catfishing in a non-romantic context, was well-known amongst authors for blackballing different books/writers, was putting up a completely false face (which isn’t a problem in itself, but she was claiming that she was very transparent and authentic while being the opposite), and may or may not have been engaging in some light identity theft (claiming someone else’s physical images, but not their social security number or money). The bad review prompted Hale’s interest, but it was only the opening to an internet rabbit hole that led her to a sort of Goodreads mafia of people who were a lot like Blythe. According to Hale, these are not just her opinions, and her thoughts and theories were confirmed by other authors and by social media people from publishing houses who warned her off of interacting with Blythe in any way.
The review itself was, again, according to Hale, objectively incorrect and based on only the first chapter of her book. It also attacked Hale, as a person, calling her a rape apologist and slut shamer. Not Hale's book, Hale.
I’m not here to blame the victim (Blythe). If you reviewed a book poorly, even savagely, and an author showed up on your doorstep, you’d be right to be extremely upset. I recognize there’s a line here. However, using your internet clout to ruin authors’ careers and attacking their character starts you scooting out of the realm of hapless victim, a simple reviewer of literature. It’s disingenuous to say Hale’s action is the result of simply getting a bad review.
I’m walking a line here, and I know it. But hear me for a second: If someone gets a poor performance review at work, that’s a tough thing. I’d say that’s the equivalent of getting a bad review of your book. If someone finds out that there is a group of individuals who are conspiring to get them fired (for totally subjective reasons), that’s a different level, and I think that those individuals play a role in subsequent events. While I don’t think it’s a good idea for the person being conspired against to show up at anyone’s house, it would be lying for the person who answered the door to say that this person was acting in a completely unreasonable fashion. Disproportionate? Yes. Stupid? Yes. Completely out of nowhere, without provocation, I barely know the guy? Well, no.
As far as the visit itself, you should know this comes after multiple attempts to talk to Blythe online. Hale, when she was offered an interview where she could pick her interviewer, tried to get Blythe to interview her. She tried to call her. These are weird things to do, totally, but something missing from the story as it was originally told is the escalation, which gives important context.
Quick aside for anyone who thinks context doesn’t matter: Woman A killed her loving, doting husband because she wanted to collect life insurance money, Woman B killed her husband in self-defense after a long marriage that involved some serious physical abuse. No difference?
The essay itself is more focused on Hale hitting a personally-identified rock bottom, and of how cyberbullying (for lack of a better term) plays out in the world of adults. I don’t remember these other parts before, but after the stalking, Hale made a pretty serious suicide attempt, sawing at her wrists with a knife, and wound up in an institution of some sort. I include these details because I think it’s important to note that Hale doesn’t seem to be defending herself or saying that what she did was justified. The essay, in my opinion, is not a defense of herself or an attack on Blythe. It’s an essay about the worst thing Hale ever did. If someone made an anthology based on the theme of “This is the worst thing I ever did,” I’d be interested.
Now I’m going to defend Kathleen Hale. Just a little bit. She didn’t defend herself, possibly because she didn’t want to, possibly because it’s not a good look. But I’m not involved, so I’ll make a case.
Let’s start with the concept of Hale being rewarded with a book contract for stalking a reviewer.
I think she’s being rewarded for creating a piece of art, which is based on something she did. Which is a very common thing in art. Hunter S. Thompson made a career of writing about terrible shit. Most war memoirs involve some heinous stuff. Not everyone is interested in reading about these experiences, and that’s cool, but I am definitely interested, and I don’t really care about narratives that present the narrator as perfect out-of-the-box. I read this as a very complicated situation, and people that find themselves in complicated situations act in complicated ways. The story of a writer who ignores bad reviews isn’t a story. It’s not interesting. Stories of people behaving morally can be inspiring, but they’re not the only kind of story, and I would hate to see only those stories exist in the world. If narratives don’t include true transgressions and bad decisions and actions, every person who has done something bad (or, everyone) has no narrative to look towards.
People can never seek redemption if they’re condemned for confessing.
I also fail to see how it’s okay for Buzzfeed to profit from the story but not Hale. If this story can acceptably exist next to a quiz where you pick a type of cake and find out which Hogwarts house you belong in, or in a follow-up essay that (I counted) has about a dozen ads peppered throughout, it can also exist in a well-crafted longform essay, in a book of essays. Plus, I don't know how much you all think writers get paid these days, but trust me, this book is not making Kathleen Hale a wealthy lady.
A lot of Blythe’s defenders will invoke a reviewer’s right to express their opinion, and I agree with that. However, you can’t defend one person’s right to their opinion and not someone else’s. The bad behavior is in showing up on Blythe’s doorstep. Writing an essay about it is, in my opinion, artistic expression based on an event that, though indefensible, is not a crime. I could be completely wrong about this, but I don't think Hale showed up on Blythe's doorstep to write an essay about it. You might feel differently, and that's cool. After reading this book, I feel like the essay came after some pretty serious reflection, and it would be tough to convince me that Hale had this terrible saga with Blythe because she just needed some shit to write about.
By the way, if you’re disagreeing with all of this and enjoy True Crime, go ahead and fuck off. The very concept of True Crime is based around individuals who profit from the suffering of others.
There’s another aspect of this whole thing as well, which has to do with creating art and the intersection of online culture.
When you write, you’re basically told: Don’t read the reviews. Don’t read the tweets. Don’t.
At the same time, when you write, you HAVE to read the tweets and the reviews. Your publisher WILL all but force you to get a Goodreads profile, get on Twitter, get on Instagram. I’ve submitted to publishers who specifically ask about your current social media clout in your submission form, presumably because if you’ve got a good following, they can reasonably expect that you’ll make for a good return on their investment.
It’s a rock and a hard place from the get-go. You can’t just avoid it entirely (as a note, Hale wasn’t even using social media before her book came out), you’re supposed to interact with fans, be authentic, and sell. And you’re supposed to have the superpower possessed by exactly no one: Completely ignore the negative shit. If you interact with negative reviews, you’re seen as a loser with nothing better to do than...seeing what people thought of something you worked hard on. Caring about it.
You have to interact, but nobody has to interact with you. When someone leaves that flaming bag of dog shit review on your porch, you have no choice but to open the door and breathe in the fumes.
The closest I came to anything like this on Goodreads was this time I almost, ALMOST clicked “Like” on a 1-star review of a book of poems I wrote. Because my first instinct was that I wanted the person who put the 1 star to know that I saw it, know that there is a real person who made that and has feelings about it.
I clicked on this person’s profile. I looked at how other books were rated. I went that far and stopped.
Luckily, I made the smart decision and let it go. BUT, what you should know is that decision basically amounts to, “I decided to just internalize my feelings, not express them, and do the unhealthiest emotional thing that people always tell you not to do by pretending that someone who said they strongly disliked what I did never said it, it didn’t affect me, and I’ll just smile and bliss out.”
Let’s be honest, when you put a pic on Instagram, how often do you check back for likes? How often have you put something up and thought, “What the hell, how come so-and-so didn’t like it? What does that mean?” Have you ever crafted a killer tweet and been disappointed that nobody laughed?
Now, imagine you spent several years putting something together, only for someone to tell you how terrible it is, how terrible you are, and what a piece of shit you’ve made. Take the amount of time you put into throwing something up in Instagram, multiply the effort by a few years, add in the fact that a novel is much closer to your sore spot than an Instragram pic, and then think about how you’d feel not only with a lack of attention, but from yahoos weighing in with their negative attention.
And keep in mind, if you end up making a life via social media, a skillset involved is dealing with assholes online. Sort of like making a career in HR means you have to be able to fire people. If you make a living as an author, dealing with assholes online is not necessarily your skillset.
Authors are not authors because they are immune to criticism. We don’t take classes where someone teaches us how to be good at taking shit. We don’t get any special meditation lessons or mantras or anything like that. We don't write books because we discovered we have no feelings about our work once it's published.
Now, I’ll say that I’ve learned A LOT about taking criticism from workshopping. But that’s different. In a workshop, for the most part, you’re working with people who have your best interest in mind, who want to help you create the best version of your work. That’s really different from someone saying you’re a shithead because you wrote a novel they don’t like. There’s a difference between someone saying your character voice is inconsistent and someone leaving you an Amazon review that says, “if you are reading this comment, you are the most screwed up person ever... i cant beleive anyone would write such a useless piece of crap. i was looking to see if anyone preserved the nintendo power magazines... and this piece of excrement comes up. wts. screw the person who write this book... what the crap…” Real Amazon review of one of my books, by the way.
In a workshop, face to face, people learn that if they are assholes without reason, nobody will want to workshop with them next week. If you’ve been ghosted by your workshop, it’s probably because you acted more interested in writing a scathing review than you did in helping others with their work. Online, you can act however you want, and it doesn't matter. Just move on to the next thing.
I don’t disagree with the idea that it requires some serious maturity to write books and open them up for criticism. That said, I don’t think that releasing a book excuses any and all behavior online. Authors putting their books in print and online means it’s open season? If they didn’t want to take shit, they wouldn’t publish? That stinks of “Well, if they didn’t want comments on their body, they wouldn’t dress that way.”
How to put this…
When I see a video online of a little kid teasing a cat, when the cat takes a swipe at the kid, I’m not devastated. There are better ways for kids to learn the lines with animals, I’m not rooting for the kid to lose an eye, but I think it’s a very natural part of life to experience something like this as a way of learning limits.
While I wouldn’t go to a reviewer’s house (obviously as I decided against even clicking the “like” on a 1-star review I got, I wouldn’t even go THAT far), there’s a part of me, and I recognize that this isn’t the most positive thing in the world, but there’s a part of me that isn’t so upset about the idea of someone bagging up the shit they were taking online and dumping that soggy bag on the sender’s doorstep. I don’t love the idea of someone showing up at someone else’s home, I don’t think this worked out well for anyone involved, but there is a part of me that doesn’t hate the idea that an author decided not to exist as a medium that absorbs criticism in a way that’s inhuman. That the author decided to assert the simple fact that she’s a real, human person, and if you want to go beyond criticizing her book and trash her career, I don’t know that the human person behind that career showing up and saying, “I exist, I’m real” is too great a consequence.
I say this as both someone who’s written books and someone who has written some harsh reviews.
It’s complicated. I don’t want reviewers to only say positive things because they’re scared. I don’t think people should disrupt each others’ expression. I do think it’s a very acceptable thing to negatively review a book, and I think it’s unacceptable to threaten someone for doing so.
And I think that’s what I really want to say about this book: It’s complicated. What happened is not as simple as this poor author was bullied online and reacted reasonably, and it’s not as simple as someone left a mildly negative review of a book and the author went Michael Myers on her. As with EVERYTHING, the story, as reported, is all fucked up. The reality is probably somewhere between the way it was reported and the way Kathleen Hale tells it. And I don’t know how you find the center without going to the poles and deciding for yourself.
That’s why I’d encourage people to read the essay. If you don’t want to “encourage bad behavior,” that’s cool. Pick up the book, read it, don’t buy it. Pick it up at your library, read it, and don’t actually check it out. Put it right back on the shelf. If you’re super opposed to supporting what you see as a negative, there are still ways you can avail yourself of the information and make your own choice. Don’t let Buzzfeed tell you what’s true, don’t let Goodreads reviewers tell you what’s true. Read and then decide.
I hope that telling Goodreads people to read and make their own decision isn’t offensive. If so, I don’t even know what the fuck is going on anymore.
not-interested
January 4, 2019I'm standing with the people who refuse to read or support this book.
Kathleen Hale is one of the most extreme cases of why reviewers are sometimes scared to post their reviews. Usually posting a negative is fine, because most authors have the good sense not to read reviews at all or at least to shake the negative ones off the best they can.
On the other hand, there are authors like Hale who see a negative review, ask for the reviewer's address claiming that the reviewer has won a giveaway, and stalks the writer of the negative review at their home. She should not be rewarded with two new books deals and a platform to defend herself and profit off her crimes.
This would be a completely different case if a third part was writing a book following the case, because that would be way more factual and less biased. However, seeing the author who literally is a crazy stalker continue her career despite how much she's shaken up the publishing industry is repulsive.
I refuse to read this and highly suggest you do too.
Kathleen Hale is one of the most extreme cases of why reviewers are sometimes scared to post their reviews. Usually posting a negative is fine, because most authors have the good sense not to read reviews at all or at least to shake the negative ones off the best they can.
On the other hand, there are authors like Hale who see a negative review, ask for the reviewer's address claiming that the reviewer has won a giveaway, and stalks the writer of the negative review at their home. She should not be rewarded with two new books deals and a platform to defend herself and profit off her crimes.
This would be a completely different case if a third part was writing a book following the case, because that would be way more factual and less biased. However, seeing the author who literally is a crazy stalker continue her career despite how much she's shaken up the publishing industry is repulsive.
I refuse to read this and highly suggest you do too.
never-to-read
January 18, 2019That's... I'm just speechless. This is the feeling you have when you think you saw everything and then somebody just has to prove you wrong.
Let me tell you.
Is this the author's thinking?
So, let me tell you.
Let me tell you.
Is this the author's thinking?
So, let me tell you.
January 6, 2019
Wow Kathleen is officially the first person to make me feel unsafe on Goodreads : / Who the fuck decided it was a good idea to publish this shit??
January 3, 2019
A few years ago, Kathleen Hale catfished a blogger and then drove to her home. I would hope she'd learned from it, but since this experience is used for an essay in here and, based on the title, I would imagine not.
This is horrifying behavior, not a charming anecdote.
This is horrifying behavior, not a charming anecdote.
Read
May 23, 2020
hell-to-the-no
January 3, 2019i remember when the book community has erupted over the stalking situation and just seeing how this author is profiting over her story is both disgusting and just wrong. why did the publisher even agree to let her have this book published? that's the bigger question.
January 4, 2019
Yeah, no, I'm good. Profiting off stalking reviewers is a bad look, not just for 2019, but in all of mankind.
January 3, 2019
This isn't funny.
No.
No.
January 4, 2019
Never ever. You shouldn't get to commit a crime (stalking) and then profit from it, especially so callously and gleefully.
A reviewer not liking your book comes with the territory and does not excuse the actions of K.H. Her reactions (see: what happens when K.H. over-freaking-reacts to a bad review) were tasteless then and a publisher picking this book up now is even more so.
A reviewer not liking your book comes with the territory and does not excuse the actions of K.H. Her reactions (see: what happens when K.H. over-freaking-reacts to a bad review) were tasteless then and a publisher picking this book up now is even more so.
January 3, 2019
"...introduces an arresting and madcap new voice for this strange American century."
nopey-mcnopeface
January 4, 2019'Hilarious and profound'... Most people wouldn't use these words to describe someone who committed a crime and seeks to profit off it. Shame on everyone involved in this
Want to read
January 4, 2019
I ain’t skeered.
But seriously, I did read her first two books despite the fact that there was a chance she would show up at my door, so c'mon NetGalley do me a solid or I'll hit you over the head with a wine bottle. j/k - I'm not an author *wink*
January 4, 2019
I'm actually shaking as I write this. When I was 16, I was stalked by an older woman. (I'm 22 now). It was without a doubt one of the most horrifying experiences I've ever had. Every moment of every day I was on edge, wondering and waiting to see whether I would be safe for another day. In many respects I was lucky, because I didn't live in the same country as her. In other ways, I was not.
I was young. So, so fucking young. I thought I had found a place for myself online where I could be safe to be myself. But as the months piled up, and she got closer and closer to me, and gathered more information about me - my name, where I lived, all my social media - I realised that nowhere was safe. I began to have panic attacks, paranoia, and fell into a deep depression. This experience is one of the main reasons why I have been diagnosed with BPD in the past year.
Do not read this book. Do not laud the author as being brave, or fascinating. Because in my mind, she is no different to the woman who stalked and preyed on me. We should be thinking about the blogger, and what it must feel like for her to be dragged into the spotlight and forced to relive this experience for the entertainment of others. The fact that this publisher is prioritising the voice of an actual stalker is terrifying to me.
I am going to be emailing the publisher to express my horror at their decision to publish this book. I hope you will too.
I was young. So, so fucking young. I thought I had found a place for myself online where I could be safe to be myself. But as the months piled up, and she got closer and closer to me, and gathered more information about me - my name, where I lived, all my social media - I realised that nowhere was safe. I began to have panic attacks, paranoia, and fell into a deep depression. This experience is one of the main reasons why I have been diagnosed with BPD in the past year.
Do not read this book. Do not laud the author as being brave, or fascinating. Because in my mind, she is no different to the woman who stalked and preyed on me. We should be thinking about the blogger, and what it must feel like for her to be dragged into the spotlight and forced to relive this experience for the entertainment of others. The fact that this publisher is prioritising the voice of an actual stalker is terrifying to me.
I am going to be emailing the publisher to express my horror at their decision to publish this book. I hope you will too.
no-buy
January 3, 2019Is this... a joke?
I would hope our collective memory is not so short-term that we can't remember Kathleen Hale once stalked a reviewer, who gave a one-star review to Hale's book, and Hale showed up at her doorstep with the intent to confront her.
I copied these links from Katie(bab)'s review:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jennaguillau...
https://jezebel.com/author-stalks-ano...
https://www.bustle.com/articles/44927...
https://smartbitchestrashybooks.com/2...
Anyway it's been a while since I dusted off this Goodreads shelf. This book makes for a lovely addition.
Make good choices. Don't give money to people who may end up stalking you. :)
I would hope our collective memory is not so short-term that we can't remember Kathleen Hale once stalked a reviewer, who gave a one-star review to Hale's book, and Hale showed up at her doorstep with the intent to confront her.
I copied these links from Katie(bab)'s review:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jennaguillau...
https://jezebel.com/author-stalks-ano...
https://www.bustle.com/articles/44927...
https://smartbitchestrashybooks.com/2...
Anyway it's been a while since I dusted off this Goodreads shelf. This book makes for a lovely addition.
Make good choices. Don't give money to people who may end up stalking you. :)
decided-against
January 3, 2019Can we maybe... not reward authors who stalk and traumatise reviewers with book deals about that very event?
avoid
January 4, 2019And just when you think the book world can't sink any lower...
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