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Times Without Number (Revised)
If the past is tampered with, the present might be totally transformed. So the whole fabric of reality depends on the watchful efforts of the Society of Time. Don Miguel Navarro is a junior officer in this force dedicated to defending the Spanish Empire and the mother church from the results of meddling in history by time-travellers. But he begins to wonder just how dedicated the Society really is when he has to deal with a case of corruption involving fellow officers . . . After he has to rescue the entire court from death at the hands of Amazon warriors brought through time, his greatest trial becomes unavoidable. Facing a threat to the most vulnerable event in his world's history, can the young Don prevent catastrophe? Or will the glorious triumph of the Spanish Armada never have occurred?
Some editions list this as a novel. In practice, the three stories remain very separate in plot and location, although they do share a common protagonist and a few other characters. All three stories start from an alternative 1988, but take place in different towns and times, ending in two different times/realities.
The original 1962 magazine stories were abridged for their publication in book form. In 1969 this story collection was revised and expanded and grew from 139 to 156 paperback pages. Thus there are three different versions of these stories:
1962 magazine publication of individual stories
1962 abridged collection
1969 revised collection
Some editions list this as a novel. In practice, the three stories remain very separate in plot and location, although they do share a common protagonist and a few other characters. All three stories start from an alternative 1988, but take place in different towns and times, ending in two different times/realities.
The original 1962 magazine stories were abridged for their publication in book form. In 1969 this story collection was revised and expanded and grew from 139 to 156 paperback pages. Thus there are three different versions of these stories:
1962 magazine publication of individual stories
1962 abridged collection
1969 revised collection
156 pages, Mass Market Paperback
First published October 1, 1962
11 people are currently reading
461 people want to read
About the author
John Brunner
575 books476 followersJohn Brunner was born in Preston Crowmarsh, near Wallingford in Oxfordshire, and went to school at St Andrew's Prep School, Pangbourne, then to Cheltenham College. He wrote his first novel, Galactic Storm, at 17, and published it under the pen-name Gill Hunt, but he did not start writing full-time until 1958. He served as an officer in the Royal Air Force from 1953 to 1955, and married Marjorie Rosamond Sauer on 12 July 1958
At the beginning of his writing career Brunner wrote conventional space opera pulp science fiction. Brunner later began to experiment with the novel form. His 1968 novel "Stand on Zanzibar" exploits the fragmented organizational style John Dos Passos invented for his USA trilogy, but updates it in terms of the theory of media popularised by Marshall McLuhan.
"The Jagged Orbit" (1969) is set in a United States dominated by weapons proliferation and interracial violence, and has 100 numbered chapters varying in length from a single syllable to several pages in length. "The Sheep Look Up" (1972) depicts ecological catastrophe in America. Brunner is credited with coining the term "worm" and predicting the emergence of computer viruses in his 1975 novel "The Shockwave Rider", in which he used the term to describe software which reproduces itself across a computer network. Together with "Stand on Zanzibar", these novels have been called the "Club of Rome Quartet", named after the Club of Rome whose 1972 report The Limits to Growth warned of the dire effects of overpopulation.
Brunner's pen names include K. H. Brunner, Gill Hunt, John Loxmith, Trevor Staines, Ellis Quick, Henry Crosstrees Jr., and Keith Woodcott.
In addition to his fiction, Brunner wrote poetry and many unpaid articles in a variety of publications, particularly fanzines, but also 13 letters to the New Scientist and an article about the educational relevance of science fiction in Physics Education. Brunner was an active member of the organisation Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament and wrote the words to "The H-Bomb's Thunder", which was sung on the Aldermaston Marches.
Brunner had an uneasy relationship with British new wave writers, who often considered him too American in his settings and themes. He attempted to shift to a more mainstream readership in the early 1980s, without success. Before his death, most of his books had fallen out of print. Brunner accused publishers of a conspiracy against him, although he was difficult to deal with (his wife had handled his publishing relations before she died).[2]
Brunner's health began to decline in the 1980s and worsened with the death of his wife in 1986. He remarried, to Li Yi Tan, on 27 September 1991. He died of a heart attack in Glasgow on 25 August 1995, while attending the World Science Fiction Convention there
aka
K H Brunner, Henry Crosstrees Jr, Gill Hunt (with Dennis Hughes and E C Tubb), John Loxmith, Trevor Staines, Keith Woodcott
Winner of the ESFS Awards in 1980 as "Best Author" and 1n 1984 as "Novelist"..
At the beginning of his writing career Brunner wrote conventional space opera pulp science fiction. Brunner later began to experiment with the novel form. His 1968 novel "Stand on Zanzibar" exploits the fragmented organizational style John Dos Passos invented for his USA trilogy, but updates it in terms of the theory of media popularised by Marshall McLuhan.
"The Jagged Orbit" (1969) is set in a United States dominated by weapons proliferation and interracial violence, and has 100 numbered chapters varying in length from a single syllable to several pages in length. "The Sheep Look Up" (1972) depicts ecological catastrophe in America. Brunner is credited with coining the term "worm" and predicting the emergence of computer viruses in his 1975 novel "The Shockwave Rider", in which he used the term to describe software which reproduces itself across a computer network. Together with "Stand on Zanzibar", these novels have been called the "Club of Rome Quartet", named after the Club of Rome whose 1972 report The Limits to Growth warned of the dire effects of overpopulation.
Brunner's pen names include K. H. Brunner, Gill Hunt, John Loxmith, Trevor Staines, Ellis Quick, Henry Crosstrees Jr., and Keith Woodcott.
In addition to his fiction, Brunner wrote poetry and many unpaid articles in a variety of publications, particularly fanzines, but also 13 letters to the New Scientist and an article about the educational relevance of science fiction in Physics Education. Brunner was an active member of the organisation Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament and wrote the words to "The H-Bomb's Thunder", which was sung on the Aldermaston Marches.
Brunner had an uneasy relationship with British new wave writers, who often considered him too American in his settings and themes. He attempted to shift to a more mainstream readership in the early 1980s, without success. Before his death, most of his books had fallen out of print. Brunner accused publishers of a conspiracy against him, although he was difficult to deal with (his wife had handled his publishing relations before she died).[2]
Brunner's health began to decline in the 1980s and worsened with the death of his wife in 1986. He remarried, to Li Yi Tan, on 27 September 1991. He died of a heart attack in Glasgow on 25 August 1995, while attending the World Science Fiction Convention there
aka
K H Brunner, Henry Crosstrees Jr, Gill Hunt (with Dennis Hughes and E C Tubb), John Loxmith, Trevor Staines, Keith Woodcott
Winner of the ESFS Awards in 1980 as "Best Author" and 1n 1984 as "Novelist"..
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 34 reviews
December 8, 2019
Rating: 3.5* of five
That was a nice ride. It took me several days to read its 156pp due to a 2017 siege of thrice-damned migraines. Loaded onto your device, however, it's a long-post-office-line's worth of interruptable reading.
The ISFDB entry on the book describes it as a collection of three stories, only loosely interconnected. I don't feel argumentative, so I'll stipulate that the book started out that way and, in the 1969 edition I read, was made into a reasonable stitch-up.
Brunner wasn't the best-loved British SF writer of his day but he was popular in the US because of Stand on Zanzibar (1969 BSFA Award for Best Novel as well as the Hugo that year), and The Sheep Look Up (1972). It appears to me that the UK readership liked his third famous book, The Jagged Orbit, which won the 1970 BSFA Award for Best Novel best of all, as the US reviewers simply chewed it up for continuing the typographical trickery of its elder sibling. Something got up their collective British nose, mutterings about Brunner being too American. For what, one wonders; his writing was at the peak of its development and uniformly of high quality; that seems to me to be without a nationality. What do I know, I like good wherever I find it from Gwyneth Jones (criminally underknown-to-US Welsh author) to Jo Walton (Canadian by way of Wales) to Elisabeth Vonarburg (Francophone Canadian also criminally underknown and seldom translated).
This book is a minor entry into the Brunnerverse, it's true, but it's one I'll treasure now that I've read it because I*AM*MORTALLY*SICK*OF*ALT*HIST*ABOUT*WWII (this from a big fan of THE MAN IN THE HIGH CASTLE, whether PKD's novel or his daughter Isa Dick Hackett's TV series) and/or the US Civil War. Good Kleio above us! History contains so incalculably many stories with so incalculably many potential outcomes! Get y'all's heads outta Hitler's stinkin' ass and away from fuckin' Gettysburg! It. Has. Been. Done. To. Death.
The Spanish Armada succeeding is a wonderful, refreshing change of PoD. I suspect that the idea occurred to Brunner when he needed something to fulfill a deadline, because he does not do anything like justice to the potential for the story's effects. The ending of the third part feels as though it was in his mind from the moment that the idea was born...it's a true ending, in other words, not a stopping point...but the immense amounts of fatty, yummy, bacony story left cavalierly on the butcher's block...! The merest hints of the Northern Native American nations's development without a United States resulting from Protestant pollution of these shores alone could fill a trilogy.
Well, anyway, I read it, I liked it, it's O.P. in print though not on your ereader platform of choice in the Gollancz SF Gateway series. Hunt it up, alt hist fans. Civilians...well, it's got the virtue of being short, so maybe it's a good quick intro to the idea that History isn't A Story but really and truly His Story.
That was a nice ride. It took me several days to read its 156pp due to a 2017 siege of thrice-damned migraines. Loaded onto your device, however, it's a long-post-office-line's worth of interruptable reading.
The ISFDB entry on the book describes it as a collection of three stories, only loosely interconnected. I don't feel argumentative, so I'll stipulate that the book started out that way and, in the 1969 edition I read, was made into a reasonable stitch-up.
Brunner wasn't the best-loved British SF writer of his day but he was popular in the US because of Stand on Zanzibar (1969 BSFA Award for Best Novel as well as the Hugo that year), and The Sheep Look Up (1972). It appears to me that the UK readership liked his third famous book, The Jagged Orbit, which won the 1970 BSFA Award for Best Novel best of all, as the US reviewers simply chewed it up for continuing the typographical trickery of its elder sibling. Something got up their collective British nose, mutterings about Brunner being too American. For what, one wonders; his writing was at the peak of its development and uniformly of high quality; that seems to me to be without a nationality. What do I know, I like good wherever I find it from Gwyneth Jones (criminally underknown-to-US Welsh author) to Jo Walton (Canadian by way of Wales) to Elisabeth Vonarburg (Francophone Canadian also criminally underknown and seldom translated).
This book is a minor entry into the Brunnerverse, it's true, but it's one I'll treasure now that I've read it because I*AM*MORTALLY*SICK*OF*ALT*HIST*ABOUT*WWII (this from a big fan of THE MAN IN THE HIGH CASTLE, whether PKD's novel or his daughter Isa Dick Hackett's TV series) and/or the US Civil War. Good Kleio above us! History contains so incalculably many stories with so incalculably many potential outcomes! Get y'all's heads outta Hitler's stinkin' ass and away from fuckin' Gettysburg! It. Has. Been. Done. To. Death.
The Spanish Armada succeeding is a wonderful, refreshing change of PoD. I suspect that the idea occurred to Brunner when he needed something to fulfill a deadline, because he does not do anything like justice to the potential for the story's effects. The ending of the third part feels as though it was in his mind from the moment that the idea was born...it's a true ending, in other words, not a stopping point...but the immense amounts of fatty, yummy, bacony story left cavalierly on the butcher's block...! The merest hints of the Northern Native American nations's development without a United States resulting from Protestant pollution of these shores alone could fill a trilogy.
Well, anyway, I read it, I liked it, it's O.P. in print though not on your ereader platform of choice in the Gollancz SF Gateway series. Hunt it up, alt hist fans. Civilians...well, it's got the virtue of being short, so maybe it's a good quick intro to the idea that History isn't A Story but really and truly His Story.
November 29, 2023
I read this one by John Brunner back in high school and enjoyed it just as much upon rereading it for the new year. I like alternate history and this is a classic of the genre. It is 1988 and the Spanish Empire is preparing to celebrate the 400th anniversary of its greatest victory--the defeat of the English Navy by the Invincible Armada, which led to the invasion and occupation of England by the Spanish Army. Don Miguel, who lives in this world, is a member of the Society of Time, which utilizes a time machine to investigate the past in order to study history.
The story of Don Miguel and his Spanish-dominated world unfolds in three parts. In the first, the Don discovers an invaluable gold Aztec mask has been smuggled from the past and he has to undo the damage as well as prevent other threats to the time line. In the second, London experiences an invasion from the time machine by an army that did not exist in Don Miguel's world but in an alternate history. In the third, a Native American seeks to change history and bring about the downfall of the Spanish Empire by going into the past and changing the outcome of the Battle of the Spanish Armada..
The story of Don Miguel and his Spanish-dominated world unfolds in three parts. In the first, the Don discovers an invaluable gold Aztec mask has been smuggled from the past and he has to undo the damage as well as prevent other threats to the time line. In the second, London experiences an invasion from the time machine by an army that did not exist in Don Miguel's world but in an alternate history. In the third, a Native American seeks to change history and bring about the downfall of the Spanish Empire by going into the past and changing the outcome of the Battle of the Spanish Armada..
September 8, 2013
"Times Without Number" read like three progressively more complex short stories, each featuring the same protagonist which were later assembled into a single novel. I guessed right. John Brunner published each of the three acts as separate stories in 1962, and the novel in 1969. I enjoy a well done time travel alternative history and these adventures of Don Miguel Navarro, Licentiate in Ordinary of the Society of Time deliver. I won't say more for fear of creating a spoiler paradox.
April 7, 2015
Times Without Number (1969) 156 pages by John Brunner
To get my engineering degree some humanities credits were requires. When it came time to register for classes in my sophomore year of college I looked through the catalog and saw a science fiction course. I signed up. The reading list included The Road to Science Fiction #2 edited by James Gunn, Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, The Dispossessed by Leguin, A Case of Conscience by Blish, Childhood's End by Clarke and The Sheep Look Up by John Brunner. I still haven't read the last two, but I enjoyed the others enough that I have tried out all of the authors after I learned how to read [for fun].
Maybe I was a little disappointed that The Gate of Time didn't involve time travel, whatever it was I picked up Times without Number. It is split into three stories. In the first story Don Miguel is a lower level member in the Society of Time, the people authorized to go back in time and study history. While in his own time he runs across a brand new Aztec mask, and knows that it has been brought out of time illegally. He gets put on the case as sort of a detective, ends up solving it, and putting the mask back in it's place minutes after it was originally stolen.
The second story considers a bigger breach, and again Don Miguel is instrumental in putting things back to order.
The third story starts with Don Miguel trying to get a vacation to California after dealing with these previous two situations. He is confronted by some of the locals who have mines that are running out of ore before they should. They discover someone had harvested the precious metals from that area in the past.
It was a fun read. If you like time travel stories at all, this one is worth your time.
To get my engineering degree some humanities credits were requires. When it came time to register for classes in my sophomore year of college I looked through the catalog and saw a science fiction course. I signed up. The reading list included The Road to Science Fiction #2 edited by James Gunn, Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, The Dispossessed by Leguin, A Case of Conscience by Blish, Childhood's End by Clarke and The Sheep Look Up by John Brunner. I still haven't read the last two, but I enjoyed the others enough that I have tried out all of the authors after I learned how to read [for fun].
Maybe I was a little disappointed that The Gate of Time didn't involve time travel, whatever it was I picked up Times without Number. It is split into three stories. In the first story Don Miguel is a lower level member in the Society of Time, the people authorized to go back in time and study history. While in his own time he runs across a brand new Aztec mask, and knows that it has been brought out of time illegally. He gets put on the case as sort of a detective, ends up solving it, and putting the mask back in it's place minutes after it was originally stolen.
The second story considers a bigger breach, and again Don Miguel is instrumental in putting things back to order.
The third story starts with Don Miguel trying to get a vacation to California after dealing with these previous two situations. He is confronted by some of the locals who have mines that are running out of ore before they should. They discover someone had harvested the precious metals from that area in the past.
It was a fun read. If you like time travel stories at all, this one is worth your time.
January 27, 2012
My first ever trip to Florida was with Linda Harrington to visit her paternal grandmother in Tampa/St. Pete. It was August. It was insanely hot and humid. The only relief was a distant enclosed shopping mall and the development's pool.
The mall had a paperback exchange store at which I was able to pick up several books after reading the Durant volume I'd brought along. One of them was God of the Witches, another was this John Brunner novel.
Usually I don't like time travel stories. This, given the richness of its historical detail, was a cut above others I'd read.
The mall had a paperback exchange store at which I was able to pick up several books after reading the Durant volume I'd brought along. One of them was God of the Witches, another was this John Brunner novel.
Usually I don't like time travel stories. This, given the richness of its historical detail, was a cut above others I'd read.
Read
August 29, 2016Entertaining, trippingly written alt history time police fixup. Walk back several points for unforced errors, including Comic Relief Stock Ineffectual Feminist.
March 19, 2018
Don Miguel Navarro is a man with a most unusual job. As a Licentiate of the Society of Time, he is a time traveling agent for a Spanish Empire that continues to thrive four hundred years after the Armada successfully conquered England in 1588. Tasked with observing the past, he is always on the lookout for improper uses of time travel lest it bring about changes to the present. A casual encounter at a party results in just such a discovery, one that leads Don Miguel to a sinister conspiracy that threatens to alter history and undo the entire empire itself unless it is stopped.
John Brunner's novel is a cut above most of its counterparts. A collection of three interlocking tales that were originally published as separate short stories, together they offer a series of entertaining adventures in an imaginative setting. His Spanish Empire is one not much more advanced technologically than its 16th century predecessor, with time travel apparently more an accident of alchemy than science. Such a premise allows Brunner to offer some fresh approaches to the concept, most notably in the notion of the careful management of time travel by religious authorities. This serves as a springboard for some interesting metaphysical observations that, when combined with Brunner's entertaining writing style, makes for a time travel novel that any fan of the genre will enjoy.
John Brunner's novel is a cut above most of its counterparts. A collection of three interlocking tales that were originally published as separate short stories, together they offer a series of entertaining adventures in an imaginative setting. His Spanish Empire is one not much more advanced technologically than its 16th century predecessor, with time travel apparently more an accident of alchemy than science. Such a premise allows Brunner to offer some fresh approaches to the concept, most notably in the notion of the careful management of time travel by religious authorities. This serves as a springboard for some interesting metaphysical observations that, when combined with Brunner's entertaining writing style, makes for a time travel novel that any fan of the genre will enjoy.
December 10, 2019
John Brunner teve uma razoável importância na Ficção Científica dos anos 50 e 60. Seu Stand on Zanzibar talvez seja considerada sua obra mais conhecida. A despeito disso, não me recordo de haver lido nada dele.
Bem, gostei desse A História em perigo (Time without numbers). Não é seguramente a melhor coisa de viagens no tempo que já li, mas há coisas bem interessantes, caso da vitória da Invencível Armada, em 1588, ser a linha temporal original e a nossa ser, na verdade, a linha alterada. E não há múltiplos universos. Só existe uma linha do tempo. Se der errado, acabou tudo.
A tradução, como muitos dos livros da antiga coleção Panorama foi feita à marretadas e a revisão também não é grande coisa. Esse descuido atrapalha um tanto a leitura. Uma pena.
Mesmo assim, é possível ver elementos interessantes no livro e a linha temporal me pareceu bem consistente do ponto de vista interno.
Recomendaria o livro a quem se interessa por viagens no tempo.
Bem, gostei desse A História em perigo (Time without numbers). Não é seguramente a melhor coisa de viagens no tempo que já li, mas há coisas bem interessantes, caso da vitória da Invencível Armada, em 1588, ser a linha temporal original e a nossa ser, na verdade, a linha alterada. E não há múltiplos universos. Só existe uma linha do tempo. Se der errado, acabou tudo.
A tradução, como muitos dos livros da antiga coleção Panorama foi feita à marretadas e a revisão também não é grande coisa. Esse descuido atrapalha um tanto a leitura. Uma pena.
Mesmo assim, é possível ver elementos interessantes no livro e a linha temporal me pareceu bem consistente do ponto de vista interno.
Recomendaria o livro a quem se interessa por viagens no tempo.
February 6, 2024
"One of the most familiar justifications for the rule confining the purpose of time-travel to observation without interference was the argument that if this rule were not made and kept, then time-travelers from the future, visiting the past, would be noticed in the here-and-now. Therefore the rule was a good one; therefore it was to be kept."
It had its clever moments and was somewhat fun to read, I guess I struggled a little because of the alt-history take but I like the way it affected the purpose of this story. You have to bear in mind the time in which it was written, a lot is implied by stating nothing other than a person's nationality or gender, but other than that this is quite impressive for its age.
It had its clever moments and was somewhat fun to read, I guess I struggled a little because of the alt-history take but I like the way it affected the purpose of this story. You have to bear in mind the time in which it was written, a lot is implied by stating nothing other than a person's nationality or gender, but other than that this is quite impressive for its age.
August 21, 2017
I liked this book as a view of alt. history of a time period you wouldn't usually think of changing - the success of the Spanish Armada... I chuckled at the statement about it being so much easier to travel through time than space... it's a cute concept! I occasionally found the long and very technical descriptions about the how's and whys of temporal travel/interruption too hard to follow and found myself glossing over them because it was too much for me to try and understand so I really don't know whether that was feasible in scientific terms or just gobbledygook formulated to look feasible - I'm not a scientist. However, I liked the concept of this story and I certainly enjoyed the way it ended. It made for a good tale although the human interaction between characters could possibly have been explored more fully - I didn't engage with them as much as I would have liked to; it seemed rushed in this respect - the main character was certainly likeable and indeed, I would not have made it through the book if I hadn't been able to engage with Don Miguel - but I just would have liked to see other relationships developed more fully. However, overall, I'm glad I read this book.
January 2, 2025
Good plane read. Part 2 was my favorite, partially because part 1 was slower in comparison and part 3 was (at points) wildly difficult to follow. I did quite like the main character and the overall story was pretty captivating. With time travel being involved I figured it would be hard to follow but that was only true at points when the explanations and story were deep into time travel lore (a good chunk of part 3). Lots of rereading involved. Regardless, I would certainly recommend!
Read
May 21, 2024A delightfully convoluted little story about the potential conflicts which might arise when time travel permits us to interfere with history. I especially like the ending in which the protagonist arrives in a time/world which he does not recognize and realizes what he must do to secure a little piece in this place/time.
August 10, 2020
This was very good. The novella -length stories that make up the set really worked, edible time travel chunks were just about the right size I like how the style was very Holmesian Britain, even though the Empire was Spanish not British, and the end was quite a delight.
March 5, 2025
This easily readable tale is set in quite a well-made alternative world, has an active and well-paced plot and a good range of characters, and is competently written by the standards of 1960s sf. It explores the theory of time travel interestingly and described Larry Niven’s law of time travel before Larry Niven did.
However, it feels like a minor book, and when I decided to read it I had no memory of it, although my records tell me I’ve read it twice in the past. It’s not a book that sticks in the memory. Why is this?
1. Although there’s a range of diverse characters, none of them make much impression on the reader. I’ve spent the whole book in the company of the hero, Don Miguel Navarro, loyal subject of the Spanish Emperor, but his personality remains elusive: I don’t feel I know him. If I compare this to Randall Garrett’s Lord Darcy stories, which have a roughly similar 1960s writing style and a roughly similar kind of scenario, Garrett had the knack of quickly establishing the distinct personality of each character and then keeping it consistent; but Brunner lacked this knack. The personalities of his characters, although somewhat different, are neither clear nor consistent: they’re blurred and seem to wander about a bit.
2. The typical writing style of 1960s sf seems by now rather dated; the state of the art has advanced since then. This is not a deterrent if the story and the characters are good enough, but it’s worth mentioning if the story or characters don’t stand out.
3. Although I take some interest in it, sometimes time-travel theory gets too technical and I just want to read the story. It’s a common hazard of sf that some authors are fascinated by technical details that are less interesting to most readers.
So, I quite liked this book, it was quite a worthy effort by the standards of the time, but in another five or ten years I’ll probably have forgotten it again. It lacks the memorable characters and dramatic scenes that make a work of fiction stick in the memory.
However, it feels like a minor book, and when I decided to read it I had no memory of it, although my records tell me I’ve read it twice in the past. It’s not a book that sticks in the memory. Why is this?
1. Although there’s a range of diverse characters, none of them make much impression on the reader. I’ve spent the whole book in the company of the hero, Don Miguel Navarro, loyal subject of the Spanish Emperor, but his personality remains elusive: I don’t feel I know him. If I compare this to Randall Garrett’s Lord Darcy stories, which have a roughly similar 1960s writing style and a roughly similar kind of scenario, Garrett had the knack of quickly establishing the distinct personality of each character and then keeping it consistent; but Brunner lacked this knack. The personalities of his characters, although somewhat different, are neither clear nor consistent: they’re blurred and seem to wander about a bit.
2. The typical writing style of 1960s sf seems by now rather dated; the state of the art has advanced since then. This is not a deterrent if the story and the characters are good enough, but it’s worth mentioning if the story or characters don’t stand out.
3. Although I take some interest in it, sometimes time-travel theory gets too technical and I just want to read the story. It’s a common hazard of sf that some authors are fascinated by technical details that are less interesting to most readers.
So, I quite liked this book, it was quite a worthy effort by the standards of the time, but in another five or ten years I’ll probably have forgotten it again. It lacks the memorable characters and dramatic scenes that make a work of fiction stick in the memory.
October 17, 2008
I've read this book twice. The second time was while visiting my wife's paternal grandmother in her retirement community near St. Petersberg Florida. It was summer and it was hot, the only relief being staying at home, going to the community pool or hanging out at the mall. I got this one at the mall. The cover was different than the previous edition I'd read, so it was only after getting into it that it struck me as oddly predictable. Having nothing else at hand, and it being short, I reread the whole thing.
May 16, 2013
I had entirely forgotten about this alternate history until I was sorting through books for the community yard sale, and ran across this in the boxes that had been in storage. It's a nice chance of pace from all the alt-Civil-War and alt-World-War-II; this one's turning point is the Spanish Armada defeating the English. And then a few centuries later the Jesuits discover time travel.
It's not a super-heavy read, but it's fun and has some nice details. The New World characters are especially interesting - the Aztecs and the "Mohawks."
It's not a super-heavy read, but it's fun and has some nice details. The New World characters are especially interesting - the Aztecs and the "Mohawks."
October 26, 2020
I read this book by John Brunner for the first time back in the eighties. The realization that our world could be quite different depending on the outcome of a few key events left a truly enduring impression. History is a more probabilistic domain than most of we would like to admit.
Although quite short, this 1969 book combines three different adventures, all lead by Don Miguel Navarro, “Licentiate in Ordinary of the Society of Time”, with time travel, invented 100 years earlier, as a baseline. The first plot introduces the concept of timeline interference. Navarro avoids the disruption of his timeline by the greed actions of an antique collector. The second illustrates the possible tragic implications of such interference. Once again, through additional meddling with history, Navarro avoids the worst. The third and last one pinpoints the intrinsic instability of such universe and the ultimate futility of Navarro’s or anyone’s actions.
The adventures begin in 1988. Four hundred years before, the Spanish Armada, deemed “invincible”, actually overrode the English fleet. Like the Norman Conquest, a Spanish-speaking nobility replaced the English one. Furthermore, after the Iberia reconquest by the moors, England became the actual seat of the throne. On one hand, there was no industrial revolution or mass transportation, slavery is still widely practiced and women’s rights are in their infancy. On the other, big multinational empires govern the world. The nation-state did not fully develop. As consequence, it seems fair to presume, there was not the endless bickering that culminated in the industrialized murders of both World Wars or of the Holocaust.
I have thought about “Times Withouth Number” sporadically throughout the years and I keep finding references to the unique relevance of 1588. The most comprehensive one I ever read was a Quora answer to the question “What is the single biggest moment in history over the past 500 years?”. As the answerer succinctly put:
Don Miguel couldn’t offer a better summary of the outcome of his failure.
The convergences between the book and later fictional products are also remarkable. The Syfy TV series “12 Monkeys” (2015-2018) ended up with the realization that the plague that decimated humanity resulted from the creation of a time machine. Like Navarro’s universe, its undoing was a necessary condition for the stabilization of the timeline.
The Spanish TV series “The Ministry of Time” (now on its fourth season), for its turn, seems to come directly from Brunner’s work. In the final episode of the second season, for example, Phillip II of Spain goes back in time to assure the victory of Spanish Armada. As a result, he builds a regressive worldwide empire that lasts until our days. Members of the Ministry, like Navarro, do their best to preserve the original timeline. Unlike him, however, they succeed.
Like most time-travel stories, “Times Withouth Number” abound with paradoxes. Since the timeline is assumed to be unique, although replaceable, solving these paradoxes is even harder. The movie “Primer” (2004) comes to my mind as a rare example of success on this endeavor. Given the short nature of his book, I don’t think Brunner was particularly worried about it. In the end, his approach to the problem of an old recollection of events by a time traveler superseding the new recollection from the same character in a new timeline is perfunctory and unconvincing. Still, the book remains quite fun to read and to play with.
Although quite short, this 1969 book combines three different adventures, all lead by Don Miguel Navarro, “Licentiate in Ordinary of the Society of Time”, with time travel, invented 100 years earlier, as a baseline. The first plot introduces the concept of timeline interference. Navarro avoids the disruption of his timeline by the greed actions of an antique collector. The second illustrates the possible tragic implications of such interference. Once again, through additional meddling with history, Navarro avoids the worst. The third and last one pinpoints the intrinsic instability of such universe and the ultimate futility of Navarro’s or anyone’s actions.
The adventures begin in 1988. Four hundred years before, the Spanish Armada, deemed “invincible”, actually overrode the English fleet. Like the Norman Conquest, a Spanish-speaking nobility replaced the English one. Furthermore, after the Iberia reconquest by the moors, England became the actual seat of the throne. On one hand, there was no industrial revolution or mass transportation, slavery is still widely practiced and women’s rights are in their infancy. On the other, big multinational empires govern the world. The nation-state did not fully develop. As consequence, it seems fair to presume, there was not the endless bickering that culminated in the industrialized murders of both World Wars or of the Holocaust.
I have thought about “Times Withouth Number” sporadically throughout the years and I keep finding references to the unique relevance of 1588. The most comprehensive one I ever read was a Quora answer to the question “What is the single biggest moment in history over the past 500 years?”. As the answerer succinctly put:
“The consequence of the Anglo-Spanish War, was Great Britain’s decision to build an Empire. And these Viking Norman-Anglo-Saxon-Scots would build in the next 300 years the world’s largest Empire, ruling 25% of the world’s population.”
Don Miguel couldn’t offer a better summary of the outcome of his failure.
The convergences between the book and later fictional products are also remarkable. The Syfy TV series “12 Monkeys” (2015-2018) ended up with the realization that the plague that decimated humanity resulted from the creation of a time machine. Like Navarro’s universe, its undoing was a necessary condition for the stabilization of the timeline.
The Spanish TV series “The Ministry of Time” (now on its fourth season), for its turn, seems to come directly from Brunner’s work. In the final episode of the second season, for example, Phillip II of Spain goes back in time to assure the victory of Spanish Armada. As a result, he builds a regressive worldwide empire that lasts until our days. Members of the Ministry, like Navarro, do their best to preserve the original timeline. Unlike him, however, they succeed.
Like most time-travel stories, “Times Withouth Number” abound with paradoxes. Since the timeline is assumed to be unique, although replaceable, solving these paradoxes is even harder. The movie “Primer” (2004) comes to my mind as a rare example of success on this endeavor. Given the short nature of his book, I don’t think Brunner was particularly worried about it. In the end, his approach to the problem of an old recollection of events by a time traveler superseding the new recollection from the same character in a new timeline is perfunctory and unconvincing. Still, the book remains quite fun to read and to play with.
February 9, 2023
Mi-a plăcut.
Traducerea a fost ok-ish.
Acțiunea se întâmplă pe o axă temporală în care Invincibila Armada a învins Anglia și spaniolii au devenit puterea dominantă a lumii. Secolul XX al acelui viitor nu permite zborul cu aparate mai grele decât aerul (evident, nici zborul în spațiu), dar a dus la descoperirea călătoriei în timp. Cu paradoxurile și pericolele aferente.
Volumul e format din trei nuvele, pe care autorul a încercat să le perieze ca să sune cât mai unitar. I-a ieșit decent, deși fragmentarea în cele trei părți a afectat aprofundarea relațiilor dintre personaje. Însă, fiind o practică obișnuită în SF-ul acelei perioade, am digerat-o ca atare.
Mi-a plăcut modul cum a condus autorul acțiunea, încercând să găsească idei și soluții interesante în contextul temei. A fost pe gustul meu și modul cum a creionat acel viitor alternativ, sugerând tratate internaționale adaptate problemelor călătoriilor temporale, o structură politică diferită de cea actuală, un alt viitor al Americilor (și nu numai).
Nu a fost o carte care să mă dea pe spate nici la prima lectură, nici acum, la recitire. Dar îl consider un text peste medie, în contextul limitelor sale și al perioadei când a fost scris. Dacă ar fi fost prima carte a lui Brunner pe care aș fi citit-o vreodată, mi-aș fi dorit să mai citesc și altele.
Traducerea a fost ok-ish.
Acțiunea se întâmplă pe o axă temporală în care Invincibila Armada a învins Anglia și spaniolii au devenit puterea dominantă a lumii. Secolul XX al acelui viitor nu permite zborul cu aparate mai grele decât aerul (evident, nici zborul în spațiu), dar a dus la descoperirea călătoriei în timp. Cu paradoxurile și pericolele aferente.
Volumul e format din trei nuvele, pe care autorul a încercat să le perieze ca să sune cât mai unitar. I-a ieșit decent, deși fragmentarea în cele trei părți a afectat aprofundarea relațiilor dintre personaje. Însă, fiind o practică obișnuită în SF-ul acelei perioade, am digerat-o ca atare.
Mi-a plăcut modul cum a condus autorul acțiunea, încercând să găsească idei și soluții interesante în contextul temei. A fost pe gustul meu și modul cum a creionat acel viitor alternativ, sugerând tratate internaționale adaptate problemelor călătoriilor temporale, o structură politică diferită de cea actuală, un alt viitor al Americilor (și nu numai).
Nu a fost o carte care să mă dea pe spate nici la prima lectură, nici acum, la recitire. Dar îl consider un text peste medie, în contextul limitelor sale și al perioadei când a fost scris. Dacă ar fi fost prima carte a lui Brunner pe care aș fi citit-o vreodată, mi-aș fi dorit să mai citesc și altele.
Read
March 21, 2017Well, I'm glad Brunner went with a non- traditional ending, without necessarily feeling a need to tie together the plot's tensions toward a satisfying resolution. a neat reversal of fictive realitities, and discussion of technicalities near the end. The greatest scene for me, in the furor of movement, social relating, and characterizations, was the New Years Eve celebration (ultimately ending up being a one to shift gears for the plot)--- remind me vaguely of the socially riotous finale to the other early sci- fi I bought in bundle with this one, Purdom's Barons of Behavior ('72). The setup in the conceptual sense was one of the reasons I picked it, in addition to its publication era of the 60s. I'm curious to the earlier conceptual imaginations for less- than- grand, alternatives to the plot- movers and space opera intercivilization tension, and most well- known giants of the genre. Even though I may not derive pure satisfaction in the reading of these two older stories, I hope I can find more like them from those two decades, for the novelty of experience in the author's germ of an idea, more than its successful and influential realization. On to the next Brunner idea which caught my eye!
April 4, 2024
This book has a similar premise to Philip K Dick's award winning "Man in the High Castle". Both are alternate history worlds that turn into multiverses when the main character finds a way from their alternate world to our normal one. In Dick's case, it was an alternate history where Allies lost WWII. In Brunner's case, the Spanish Armada defeated England and by 1980s we all live in the Spanish Empire. Brunner's is a time travel story as well, riffing cleverly on "I killed my grandfather" types of time paradoxes. Time travelers messing with history on what gives rise to alternate histories.
Brunner's and Dick's books both came out in 1962. It's possible they communicated (they exchanged letters at times and admired each other's writing) or maybe there was "something in the water" that gave them similar ideas. Brunner and Dick both became darlings of the Sci-Fi New Wave in the 1970s, but back in 1962 were still young authors finding their voices.
Brunner's and Dick's books both came out in 1962. It's possible they communicated (they exchanged letters at times and admired each other's writing) or maybe there was "something in the water" that gave them similar ideas. Brunner and Dick both became darlings of the Sci-Fi New Wave in the 1970s, but back in 1962 were still young authors finding their voices.
January 3, 2025
Esta novela de John Brunner cayo en mis manos casualmente mientras hacia tiempo en una biblioteca de usados, y no es en absoluto su producto mas popular. Sin embargo, esta bien hecha y me deja una buena impresión. Es una historia de un mundo alterno donde España conquistó Inglaterra, pero se cuida mucho de caer en leyendas negras y nos muestra un mundo distinto al nuestro, pero ni peor ni mejor. No hubo revolucion industrial, pero se descubrio la maquina del tiempo. Se dice poco de la conquista de sudamerica, pero los pueblos indigenas de norteamericas fueron mas bien asimilados culturalmente que arrasados. Esto hace que al alejarnos del dia a dia yanki de cuando fue escrito, nos deja en un entorno atemporal, fresco. El protagonista es lo suficientemente inteligente como para ser respetable como lector, pero no es en absoluto desagradable. La novela entonces envejeció muy bien, y tiene buenas ideas y chispas como para distrutarla.
January 7, 2023
Alternate History/Time Travel Classic
I read this in my teen years and loved it. Revisited it now, 50 years later. It holds up well. Brunner was a SF master, right up there with Heinlein. It's a shame that his personality seems to have gotten him snubbed and ignored by publishers throughout his life.
This book examines, wonderfully, a world where it's the nineteen-eighties, the Spanish Empire rules the West, and controls time travel through the Inquisition. It's not a novel, but rather connected novelettes, with the same time traveler as the protagonist.
Good storytelling, as well as an exploration of the theory of time travel. It ends with what's become a SF trope, but I think Brunner may have done it first here; why a reality with time travel will eventually paradox itself out of existence.
I read this in my teen years and loved it. Revisited it now, 50 years later. It holds up well. Brunner was a SF master, right up there with Heinlein. It's a shame that his personality seems to have gotten him snubbed and ignored by publishers throughout his life.
This book examines, wonderfully, a world where it's the nineteen-eighties, the Spanish Empire rules the West, and controls time travel through the Inquisition. It's not a novel, but rather connected novelettes, with the same time traveler as the protagonist.
Good storytelling, as well as an exploration of the theory of time travel. It ends with what's become a SF trope, but I think Brunner may have done it first here; why a reality with time travel will eventually paradox itself out of existence.
December 24, 2021
Alternate History Meets Time Travel
Imagine an alternate history where the Spanish Armada conquered England. Then imagine time travel being invented in the 19th century. Fast forward to the 1980s and you have this book.
It’s not really a novel but more a collection of related stories featuring the same characters. The world of the 1980s here is animal powered, no electricity, no modern technology and is ruled by royalty. But they have time travel. The Society has a goal of exploring time and preventing its alteration.
The world in the book is interesting in its own right and that alone makes it worth reading.
Imagine an alternate history where the Spanish Armada conquered England. Then imagine time travel being invented in the 19th century. Fast forward to the 1980s and you have this book.
It’s not really a novel but more a collection of related stories featuring the same characters. The world of the 1980s here is animal powered, no electricity, no modern technology and is ruled by royalty. But they have time travel. The Society has a goal of exploring time and preventing its alteration.
The world in the book is interesting in its own right and that alone makes it worth reading.
October 29, 2024
It's hard to appreciate generic time-travel books when there are so many of them all exploring the same idea in the same kind of generic ways. Times Without Number is one of these. There's nothing very exciting here, and the idea of time travel is explored in a pretty slipshod and basic way. A lot of the humour is lost with stereotypes that have ceased to be at all funny, including a heavy reliance on historical claims/myths (such as about cannibalism) that have been thoroughly debunked (or at least severely curtailed) since the publication of the book. The book was quite readable and some of it mildly interesting but there are far more interesting books about time-travel out there.
February 24, 2019
A nice little time travel book of an alternate history from John Brunner. It's not his best by any means, but it's not bad. The story centers around Miguel, who is a member of the society of time in the Spanish Empire, that controls all of Europe and has alliances with the America's. The book is in three parts that are connected, but not all that well. Miguel must try and save his present from various situations where others are using time travel for their own destructive purposes.
March 31, 2019
What would it be like if Spain had become the imperial conquerer, instead of England? What would there be instead of the United States? Brunner creates an original idea for an alternate history. But whoever rules the empire, you can never escape the greed, cunning and hatred of his fellow man that the Species of humans claims as his own. And that is where the best laid plans of mice and men will end.
February 12, 2022
Science Fiction - my 1960's science fiction selection. I am reading too many time travel books. Don Miguel is in a time line where the Spanish Armada wins the sea battle with the English. They invent time travel and are now responsible for preserving their version of history. This book has aged well but it is still confusing when Brunner explains the logistics of time travel.
No Canadian or pharmacy references.
No Canadian or pharmacy references.
April 14, 2019
Interesting take on time travel and how what you did while in the backward travel could have ab impact of the present. Going back to fix things is not always easy.
Want to read
August 17, 2020This is a read-again, and now as an ebook, price sank under 2 Eur, so I bought it.
November 3, 2022
Wild ride. Brunner takes the reader on a tour of a bizarre alternate steampunk 20th century, where the Holy Roman Empire still rules and time travel is a commonplace.
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