Great Ladies: The Forgotten Witnesses to the Lives of Tudor Queens

by Sylvia Barbara Soberton

There has been a great deal written about Tudor queens, but less so about those women who surrounded the throne, who may have held even more power and influence than those who actually wore the golden crown. Some ladies who served at the Tudor court are only faceless silhouettes lost to the sands of time, but there are those who dedicated their lives to please their royal mistresses and left documentation, allowing us to piece their life stories together and link them to the stories of Tudor queens. These female attendants saw their queens and princesses up close and often used their intimate bonds to their own benefit. Some were beloved, others hated. This is the story of the ladies of the Tudor court like you’ve never read it before.

Genres: History, Nonfiction, Historical, Biography, Audiobook, Tudor Period, Royalty

254 pages, Kindle Edition

Published February 22, 2017

Reviews

[Les · Rating 5 out of 5]

For some inexplicable reason I am obsessed with the Tudors and the Tudor period. I didn't watch the TV show of recent years. I just find the entire Soap Opera ( and there is no other word for it) fascinating.

This book concentrates on the 'supporting players' of the Tudor period, specifically Women in a Supporting Role. Some men will be mentioned but mostly because of their wives and or sisters.

The Tudor courts were still medieval courts; which means that it was filled with nobles, minor royalty and hangers on who actually were used as servants. The titles like Ladies of the Bedchamber or Ladies of Wardrobe actually attached to jobs. The wives and daughters of high ranking gentlemen might have been making the Queen's bed or sweeping out the grate. Which sounds completely insane. They also did this without any sort of guaranteed salary. They got bed and board, many of the women actually slept on pallets in the Queen's chamber. Clothes and other trinkets might be dispensed as a gift or they might not. So why did they do it? Influence, power and the rewards. A favored courtier could receive titles, lands and more. Of course being out of favor during this time could cost you all of the above plus your head.

What I found the most interesting was amid all the chaos that was the Tudor reign from the beginning of Anne Boleyn's influence through the death of Elizabeth there were people who were in and out of favor who kept reappearing. Anne's sister in law ended up in the household of Jane Seymour, and managed to stay in the court through the death of Henry VIII

Text ends at 72% on my kindle then we are treated to Primary, secondary sources and illustrations of the various personages. A full 20% of the book is Footnotes so this is meticulously researched.

I am adding a new 'feature' to my reviews and my shelves named "vocab". This will include words which are new to me and their definitions that were found in a particular book. Note these will be real words and not imaginary words as found in many of the P&P FF I read

Expatiated- speak or write at length or in detail:
"she expatiated on working-class novelists"

opprobrium- Harsh criticism or censure.
‘the critical opprobrium generated by his films’

caparisoned -(of a horse) be decked out in rich decorative coverings.
‘his horse was caparisoned with coloured ribbons’

mésalliance - A marriage with a person thought to be unsuitable.
‘the loss of half a million francs only underlined the fact that her son was making a mésalliance’

[BAM doesn’t answer to her real name · Rating 2 out of 5]

ROYALTY READS PROJECT 2023

[Carole P. Roman · Rating 5 out of 5]

Tudor history is a rich tapestry overflowing with colorful personalities that often overshadow some of the smaller players that joined the court. The Tudor palaces were filled with the flowers of English society, whether it was the daughters of the house sent to find a husband or wives helping their family's travel up the social and political ladder. Soberton writes a delightful book listing many of the other women, the less famous- who walked the corridors, attending the queens, influenced fashion, and ideas, or even toppled a royal marriage. She begins with Henry VII, the court filled with Elizabeth of York's beautiful sisters and the marriages he negotiated to his advantage. He even kept Lady Katherine Gordon, wife of the pretender, Perkin Warbeck central in his court, paying for her keep, despite who her husband was.
Henry VIII liked a lively court filled with aristocratic girls, flocking to dance around him, serving Queen Katherine, sometimes betraying her. They were there to supply fresh faces for him to pick and choose a new companion. Each of his wives surrounded themselves with suitable a circle to comfort and serve them, never realizing they might be indeed promoting their own successor.
She goes on to discuss women likeFrances Grey, Katherine Brandon, and Anne Stanhope Seymour, al lady who tried to rival the dowager Queen Catherine Parr. She was her her sister in-law and was determined to see who was the supreme lady in the land. Some, like Queen Mary, surrounded herself with sycophants who encouraged her delusional behavior. Lastly, Elizabeth's ladies, who were made to endure her vicious behavior and strict rules or risk banishment or worse. This is a book about the women behind the throne, their quiet strength influenced the flavor and traditions of the court and supported the monarchy at the expense of their own freedom and personal lives.

[Carole · Rating 2 out of 5]

Title belies the content

I am sad that this book only merits 2 stars. From the title it wound be fair to assume that the content would illuminate those who were close, 'below stairs' servants of the Tudor Queens. There is nothing here that is new nor illuminating. The true Forgotten Witnesses would surely be those servants of both genders who worked behind the scenes, their contact with the Tudor Queens would have been tenuous but essential. Who were the servants who kept the day to day operations of the royal courts well oiled. What about the male servants who were in such roles. If you author a book on this subject, don't rehash the easily available stories regarding the established families. It's always the 'below stairs' servants who prove to the greater insight into what really went on and it is their voices who are the real Forgotten Witnesses. Instead, undertake some new real research and come up with new and unexplored evidence; evidencing the true witnesses whose stories this book should be telling.

[Adrienne Dillard · Rating 5 out of 5]

This book gets all the stars from me for two big reasons: Jane Boleyn and Catherine Carey Knollys. Thank GOD authors and historians are finally getting it right with these two. Ms. Soberton gives Jane the sympathetic treatment she wholeheartedly deserves and, even better, gives Catherine more than just a passing mention. So many historians ignore Lady Knollys and I haven't quite figured out why; she was one of Elizabeth I's closest companions. Two big bonuses to an already delightful read. Highly recommend!

[Kathy · Rating 2 out of 5]

I could not, in all conscience, give this book a very good rating.

This book is touted to be about the women who surrounded the Queens of England, and had an influence on them and their decision making. In truthfulness many women are named who served each Queen, but there is very little told about them except their connections to aristocracy. I would have much preferred fewer names and more about them as persons. I was disappointed in this book. Kathy R. Blackman

[Sammy · Rating 2 out of 5]

A bit dry at times, and nothing really new here, except for the authors own views and beliefs which are based on supposition, mostly.

I understand the temptation to, for example, try to be romantic and state that Robert Dudley was "the only man Elizabeth ever truly loved", but the fact of the matter is that that is guesswork, not fact. I prefer facts in my non-fiction, and where guessing, the author should clearly indicate that.

[Denise · Rating 3 out of 5]

Much has been written about the Tudors, not nearly as much about those who surrounded them - particularly the women who served as ladies in waiting to the Tudor princesses and queens. However, while this book gives us many of their names and some interesting glimpses of their lives, I was hoping for a little more material about them rather than mainly the royals they served.

[Kathleen · Rating 4 out of 5]

This was a fine read, a bit heavy on ElizabethI and known facts, but I enjoyed knowing about the interactions with Katherine Carey Knollys and others. Some little known interactions were mentioned which I appreciated reading about.

There were other less remarked upon vignettes, such as the brief life of Mary Seymour daughter of Katherine Parr and Thomas Seymour, that were the reason I decided to read the book.

I definitely have noted the other books by this author and will be aquiring them also. I am giving it 4 + Stars and definitely will recommend it to others.

[Linda Collings · Rating 5 out of 5]

Loved it I am obsessed with the Tudor era !

[Olivia · Rating 3 out of 5]

Intressant att lära sig mer om kvinnor som inte var kungligheter men ofta stod dem mycket nära. Iblans till katastrofala konsekvenser.

[Mariessa · Rating 3 out of 5]

I'm what I would call a Tudor geek and I judged from other reviews that this might have new material. It was a good introduction to ladies and waiting but if you are like me, it was a rehashing of the ladies I already knew.

[Claire · Rating 1 out of 5]

Important note: I knew going in that the major facts wouldn't be a shock to me, I have a hyperfixation on the War of the Roses and the Tudors. HOWEVER, I was really intrigued by the idea of the other background players in those times. I really do think there's something fascinating about being able to watch history through the people that got recorded in history by pure luck. I figured there wouldn't be a lot of info available so the size of the book made me hopeful it would not fluff around, get to the point, and unveil those stories through actual research. I figured the first few chapters were maybe setting the story, but it really wasn't. I think the ACTUAL information on background actors to Tudor queens in this book could really just fit in 2-3 pages.

Only towards the end does the author seemingly remember what the premise was. As other reviews said, it's really just a vague recollection of the Tudor dynasty with an occasional focus on...the names of some background people who were really not that "forgotten"? And don't come with the "you misunderstood the title", let's be honest here, they knew exactly what the title and blurb would lead people to assume.

At the end of each chapters, the narrator would start listing a name out of the ladies in waiting and give a couple random facts (she got married. She got into a fight, maybe, but actually probably not) and I'd remember the book wasn't just an ABC recollection of the events between Elizabeth of York and Elizabeth the first. There's maybe a couple stories that were actually really interesting and going beyond very basic information, at best.

The only things I found out that I didn't know already was mostly just how cruel and psycho Elizabeth Ist was - and that's just because I've never really read much beyond Jane Grey. This mostly gave me a vague idea of how different the courts were for ladies of the court depending on the Tudor queen or monarch in power? Even then, it really was mostly a recollection of the basic facts.

Idk honestly, I find it increasingly irritating that just about anyone off the street can do a random recollection of Wikipedia facts about the Tudor, slap in a few dates and quotes, maybe color in a lil picture of a rock that was once a castle, and publish it like they're a great historian. No disrespect to this author but the title and blurb are completely inaccurate, and this is what...An uninspired pile of regurgitated facts that aren't even as detailed as a random reddit post.

If you know nothing about the Tudors, you truly might still want to give this a go, but you'll have better luck with a 30 min browsing session on Wikipedia. Bonus point: the prose will be more engaging too. At least the 0.90 bucks price for the audiobook tells me the people setting the price don't think this is the next Alison Weir.

Bless the narrator of the audiobook who did a decent job at sounding coherent at 2.7x listening speed (I will not allow any book less than 200 pages to make me DNF, I have SOME pride).

[Paula · Rating 5 out of 5]

Not to be forgotten

I found this book to be a fascinating account of the women who served the Queens. I am amazed that Soberton's research yielded such information and am grateful to her work. These are the women who are usually written out of history and forgotten with time. An extremely interesting read that goes quickly, I highly recommend it for anyone interested in women's history or in Tudor England.

[Joy · Rating 2 out of 5]

The title is misleading. There is very little new here for someone familiar with the Tudor period.

[gillian a gillard · Rating 2 out of 5]

Interesting but!

A nice read but not much that is not already told countless times before
In other books, liked the pictures

[Avis Gill · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is a very interesting book about some of the lives of the Tudor Queens and the forgotten witnesses. You’ll start with Henry VII, who had spent 14 years in exile and when he was crowned. His mother was the formidable Lady Margaret Beaufort. Henry married Elizabeth of York in January 1486 and she was crowned two years after Henry in November 1487. Henry was much influenced by his mother and his wife the Queen did not like it! Continue to follow this story when their firstborn son, Arthur, marries Katherine of Aragon, who after Arthur’s death marries Arthur’s brother Henry VIII.
Of course, you know Henry VIII dilly - dallied behind Katherine’s back or so he thought. Read on about his divorces, marriages and deaths of his Queens and the children he sired. Some ladies who served at court dedicated their lives to please their royal mistresses and left documentations allowing us to piece together their life stories together and link them to the stories of the Tudor queens. Some were loved, others were hated.
If you love reading about Tudor times in history and looking at the picture section toward the end of the book that shows various drawings and portraits of the great ladies involved.
I recommend this book highly!

[James Crawford · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is a look behind-the-scenes of some of the English queens. They had various women working for them, sometimes called ladies-in-waiting, who basically were companions and workers. They took care of their mistress. Sometimes they were rewarded. Sometimes they were punished. They were expected to be beautiful, know the various 'womenly' arts of sewing, etc., and be utterly devoted to their mistress.

Of course that was the ideal. It didn't always work that way from either direction. Elizabeth I, for example, was known to beat the women working for her.

It makes for some rather interesting reading.

[Eowynselixure_book Love · Rating 4 out of 5]

Unfortunately there isn't much here that serious Tudor lovers won't already know. It's an account of Tudor history.

There are some very interesting titbits about ladies in waiting to tudor queens but I already knew about the ladies that betrayed Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard and Maria de Salinas's bravery in riding to Catherine of Aragon's death bed despite Henry VIII orders not to.

The overall sense of the book is about the well thumbed through accounts of the monarchs lives and I didn't really feel it gave much more to history.

However it may do to readers who don't know the Tudors story as well as I do and it was impeccably researched and written.

[Angie · Rating 3 out of 5]

Lots of information, lots of names, lots of Katherines (but this IS English history so...) Some of the family trees got a bit convoluted but the details were careful and researched. I was rather impressed at the way the author generally avoided playing favorites with the Tudor Queens - at least not much. I find that a lot of books about Henry's ladies take extreme sides (that bitch, that saint, etc) when we all need to realize that he was the jerk, really. :)

[Pam Shelton-Anderson · Rating 3 out of 5]

The "great ladies" are not actually looked at in any depth and there is not any information here that is not covered more extensively in some other books. Most of the women covered were the Tudor queens themselves and not substantially so. The writing is generally good and it is well foot-noted which is a plus.

[Michelle · Rating 5 out of 5]

An accessible introduction to the complex world of the Tudor court. Sylvia Barbara Soberton covers the history of the Tudor dynasty from its founding in 1483 with Henry VII to 1603 with the death of Elizabeth I. Focusing on the supporting women of the Tudor court, Soberton argues that the real power behind the throne were the ladies of the royal court.

[Marilyn Boyle · Rating 4 out of 5]

Very interesting tidbits about these influential but little recognized women. New scholarship has brought light on the Tudor era which brings it alive. This volume shows both the various personalities that composed the court and reveals the strategies and political transactions of court life in a fuller way than seen before.

[Kara · Rating 5 out of 5]

An impressive amount of detail, considering it covers 118 years of the bustling Tudor court.

Soberton digs up what she can on the women who served the Tudor monarchs, admitting the record is incomplete at many points, but doing an excellent job to show the specifics where she can find them and that, overall, the court was a busy place and the Tudors were almost never alone.

[Kate]

It's not bad, it's just nothing new. I thought this would be about ladies on the periphery, and they are mentioned, but they are mentioned very briefly. It's more about the main players/events (the queens) and I know a lot about Elizabeth Woodville and Elizabeth of York already, so this is not for me.

[Mary A · Rating 4 out of 5]

This was quite interesting, but it really was just a retelling of the lives of the Tudor monarchs with small details about the ladies in waiting thrown in. I was expecting a view of the period through the eyes of the ladies in waiting, but it certainly wasn’t that. There was also, in many cases, very little information about these women, which was a bit frustrating.

[Christine Cazeneuve · Rating 3 out of 5]

Good

As I have read so many books on all of these monarchs there wasn't much I didn't already know. However, there were a few interesting tidbits of new information. If you don't know much about these intriguing people this is a good place to start.

[Michelle · Rating 4 out of 5]

A very interesting read on women from the tudor era, many I had heard of before and some whose names were new to me, giving me more insight and avenues to look into for further information. I just wish that further information was given on each woman

[Lynnda · Rating 4 out of 5]

An entertaining if somewhat short history of the forgotten women of Tudor England.

[Victoria · Rating 4 out of 5]

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