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Sun, Moon and Talia
Le Soleil La Lune et Thalie
Giambattista Basile, poète, courtisan et écrivain italien (1566-1575)
Ce livre numérique présente «Le Soleil La Lune et Thalie», de Giambattista Basile, édité en texte intégral. Une table des matières dynamique permet d'accéder directement aux différentes sections.
Table des Matières
-01- Présentation
-02- Le Soleil, la Lune et Thalie
-03- Notes
Giambattista Basile, poète, courtisan et écrivain italien (1566-1575)
Ce livre numérique présente «Le Soleil La Lune et Thalie», de Giambattista Basile, édité en texte intégral. Une table des matières dynamique permet d'accéder directement aux différentes sections.
Table des Matières
-01- Présentation
-02- Le Soleil, la Lune et Thalie
-03- Notes
3 pages, Unknown Binding
First published January 1, 1634
19 people are currently reading
695 people want to read
About the author
Giambattista Basile
132 books57 followersBorn to a Neapolitan middle-class family, Basile was, during his career, a courtier and soldier to various Italian princes, including the doge of Venice. According to Benedetto Croce he was born in 1575, while other sources have February 1566. In Venice he began to write poetry. Later he returned to Naples to serve as a courtier under the patronage of Don Marino II Caracciolo, prince of Avellino, to whom he dedicated his idyll L’Aretusa (1618). By the time of his death he had reached the rank of "count" Conte di Torrone.
Basile's earliest known literary production is from 1604 in the form of a preface to the Vaiasseide of his friend the Neapolitan writer Giulio Cesare Cortese. The following year his villanella Smorza crudel amore was set to music and in 1608 he publish his poem Il Pianto della Vergine.
He is chiefly remembered for writing the collection of Neapolitan fairy tales titled Lo cunto de li cunti overo lo trattenemiento de peccerille (Neapolitan for The Tale of Tales, or Entertainment for Little Ones), also known as Il Pentamerone published posthumously in two volumes by his sister Adriana in Naples, Italy in 1634 and 1636 under the pseudonym Gian Alesio Abbatutis. It later became known as the Pentamerone. Although neglected for some time, the work received a great deal of attention after the Brothers Grimm praised it highly as the first national collection of fairy tales. Many of these fairy tales are the oldest known variants in existence. They include the earliest known versions of "Rapunzel" and "Cinderella".
Basile's earliest known literary production is from 1604 in the form of a preface to the Vaiasseide of his friend the Neapolitan writer Giulio Cesare Cortese. The following year his villanella Smorza crudel amore was set to music and in 1608 he publish his poem Il Pianto della Vergine.
He is chiefly remembered for writing the collection of Neapolitan fairy tales titled Lo cunto de li cunti overo lo trattenemiento de peccerille (Neapolitan for The Tale of Tales, or Entertainment for Little Ones), also known as Il Pentamerone published posthumously in two volumes by his sister Adriana in Naples, Italy in 1634 and 1636 under the pseudonym Gian Alesio Abbatutis. It later became known as the Pentamerone. Although neglected for some time, the work received a great deal of attention after the Brothers Grimm praised it highly as the first national collection of fairy tales. Many of these fairy tales are the oldest known variants in existence. They include the earliest known versions of "Rapunzel" and "Cinderella".
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 56 reviews
March 24, 2020
SOL, LUNA Y TALÍA de Giambattista Basile
Basile fue un cuentista napolitano del siglo XVII que escribió muchos cuentos que son recopilaciones de leyendas contemporáneas que más tarde fueron modificados por otros autores que son más conocidos que él como son los hermanos Grimm. Esta historia es el antecedente de "La bella durmiente", pero en este caso la historia es bastante diferente. Lo parecido desde luego es que en este caso Talía al nacer fue vaticinada a su padre que quedaría muerta en vida si lograba pincharse con una arista de lino. Cosa que eventualmente sucedió pero luego de ser abandonada por su propio padre muerto de dolor vino un rey que en circunstancias extrañas llega a relacionarse con ella. Tiene un final feliz pero varía bastante la historia.
Basile fue un cuentista napolitano del siglo XVII que escribió muchos cuentos que son recopilaciones de leyendas contemporáneas que más tarde fueron modificados por otros autores que son más conocidos que él como son los hermanos Grimm. Esta historia es el antecedente de "La bella durmiente", pero en este caso la historia es bastante diferente. Lo parecido desde luego es que en este caso Talía al nacer fue vaticinada a su padre que quedaría muerta en vida si lograba pincharse con una arista de lino. Cosa que eventualmente sucedió pero luego de ser abandonada por su propio padre muerto de dolor vino un rey que en circunstancias extrañas llega a relacionarse con ella. Tiene un final feliz pero varía bastante la historia.
May 24, 2016
This is one of the really early renditions of Sleeping Beauty, and I really hate it.
and here I thought Disney's version of this story featured a passive princess! This is such an awful way to tell the story and it doesn't make any sense (giving birth in your sleep? really?) I hate the way Talia is treated, I can't really justify it. I'm giving it a low rating because I'm definitely not okay with a story that tells you it's okay to be in love and forget that this man who claims to love you did actually take advantage of your body while you're vulnerable.
and here I thought Disney's version of this story featured a passive princess! This is such an awful way to tell the story and it doesn't make any sense (giving birth in your sleep? really?) I hate the way Talia is treated, I can't really justify it. I'm giving it a low rating because I'm definitely not okay with a story that tells you it's okay to be in love and forget that this man who claims to love you did actually take advantage of your body while you're vulnerable.
September 12, 2020
Había oído la leyenda urbana de que en el cuento de "La bella durmiente", el príncipe se aprovechaba de la princesa mientras dormía. Al leer la versión de Perrault llegué a la conclusión de que solo era un rumor, puesto que en esa versión Perrault explica que la princesa se despierta cuando el príncipe entra a su cuarto y ambos se enamoran en ese instante. En esta versión más antigua, la de Basile, aquí es en donde sí, el hombre se aprovecha de Talia cuando aún ella está hechizada y también bajo ese encantamiento ella pare a sus dos hijos, Sol y Luna.
Sé que no debo de juzgar una historia antigua bajo estándares actuales, pero no me gusta esta versión. El príncipe además de infiel, también es un violador.
Sé que no debo de juzgar una historia antigua bajo estándares actuales, pero no me gusta esta versión. El príncipe además de infiel, también es un violador.
February 15, 2018
If taken out of historical context which might have considered this kind of story alright on both a moral and social ground, it is a story of Rape and it stands against much (if not everything) we fight when we fight violence on women.
I read it and I feel that's all I can say.
I read it and I feel that's all I can say.
January 11, 2024
Writing-wise it is written well for a fairy tale released centuries ago but then, it is so vastly different from the variations which arose in Germany or Ireland. Potentially my first Italian fairy tale.
January 25, 2018
El primer cuento sobre la bella durmiente...horrible 😷
June 1, 2022
That was... something.
March 3, 2020
I’ve known about the twisted content of “Sun, Moon, and Talia”—considered by many the first version of Sleeping Beauty—for years. (It’s normally the primary example cited by anyone who wants to tell you how misogynist and awful fairytales are toward women.) But only recently did I actually read Basile’s text. Mainly I wanted to maintain my fairytale credibility, but I was also curious. Maybe the story’s more unpleasant aspects had been blown out of proportion by the snarky haters. Maybe there would be some redeeming content among the problematic gender representation.
I won’t mince words: this story isn’t pretty.
We start out with a rape that was apparently fairy-condoned (the fairies are said to be watching over Talia and they later take care of her babies while she’s still unconscious, so I can only assume that they passively sat by while the king had his way with her, too), and that alone is awful. But it’s only the tip of the iceberg.
We then learn that the king is not only a rapist but such a fickle loser that he totally forgets about the mysterious castle and unconscious woman that he had sex with for over a year, until he just randomly remembers one day and finds them again. The story subsequently endorses good old-fashioned adultery as the king cheats on his wife and has his secret family with Talia and her twin children. Talia’s benign response to all that has happened and docile attitude towards the king also endorses women accepting physical assault and loving their rapist.
Okay, I tried to reason. That’s all undeniably hideous. But what about the story’s legacy? I am a Sleeping Beauty defender and it’s quite likely that without this story many of my favorite retellings—and stories in general—wouldn’t exist at all. Can this tale’s future interpretations with feminist fairies, George Bruns’s music, and empowered survivor narratives excuse its revolting origins? I tried to give the story that, even if it was an incredibly squeamish concession.
I kept reading. The narrative turns to the king’s wife, where the story invokes the notorious women-hating-women trope. The queen is presented as a psychotic, murderous monster (Perrault literally made her character an ogre in his adaptation): when she finds out about the affair, she orders the twins to be chopped into stew for her and the king to eat and she tries to burn Talia alive. Rather than, you know, being mad at the husband who cheated on her in the first place. Blaming a woman for events that all happened to her when she was unconscious, and that she therefore had no control over, is a nice touch as well.
All right, I thought desperately, but maybe everything being so absurdly awful and violent is deliberate. Maybe we’re meant to dislike everyone in this story. Maybe Basile was going the Chaucer route and presenting us with these characters to make a greater commentary about something or just demonstrate human nastiness. Maybe readers or authors had a savage streak at the time and loved to tell stories about despicable idiots so that we could shake our heads at them and cheer as they meet their gruesome fates... Maybe???
But then I got to the story’s closing moral, which sounds harmless when read on its own but, in the context of the story, comes off like a roofie slogan—
“for those who are lucky, good rains down even when they are sleeping”
—and any chance of generous feeling evaporated.
Forget legacy, forget satire, forget historical context. This is downright icky. I’m not saying that Perrault’s and the Grimms’ versions were flawless, but they at least turned the material into something respectable and enchanting (and thank goodness for that). There’s no such redemption here: “Sun, Moon, and Talia” is better lost to time.
I won’t mince words: this story isn’t pretty.
We start out with a rape that was apparently fairy-condoned (the fairies are said to be watching over Talia and they later take care of her babies while she’s still unconscious, so I can only assume that they passively sat by while the king had his way with her, too), and that alone is awful. But it’s only the tip of the iceberg.
We then learn that the king is not only a rapist but such a fickle loser that he totally forgets about the mysterious castle and unconscious woman that he had sex with for over a year, until he just randomly remembers one day and finds them again. The story subsequently endorses good old-fashioned adultery as the king cheats on his wife and has his secret family with Talia and her twin children. Talia’s benign response to all that has happened and docile attitude towards the king also endorses women accepting physical assault and loving their rapist.
Okay, I tried to reason. That’s all undeniably hideous. But what about the story’s legacy? I am a Sleeping Beauty defender and it’s quite likely that without this story many of my favorite retellings—and stories in general—wouldn’t exist at all. Can this tale’s future interpretations with feminist fairies, George Bruns’s music, and empowered survivor narratives excuse its revolting origins? I tried to give the story that, even if it was an incredibly squeamish concession.
I kept reading. The narrative turns to the king’s wife, where the story invokes the notorious women-hating-women trope. The queen is presented as a psychotic, murderous monster (Perrault literally made her character an ogre in his adaptation): when she finds out about the affair, she orders the twins to be chopped into stew for her and the king to eat and she tries to burn Talia alive. Rather than, you know, being mad at the husband who cheated on her in the first place. Blaming a woman for events that all happened to her when she was unconscious, and that she therefore had no control over, is a nice touch as well.
All right, I thought desperately, but maybe everything being so absurdly awful and violent is deliberate. Maybe we’re meant to dislike everyone in this story. Maybe Basile was going the Chaucer route and presenting us with these characters to make a greater commentary about something or just demonstrate human nastiness. Maybe readers or authors had a savage streak at the time and loved to tell stories about despicable idiots so that we could shake our heads at them and cheer as they meet their gruesome fates... Maybe???
But then I got to the story’s closing moral, which sounds harmless when read on its own but, in the context of the story, comes off like a roofie slogan—
“for those who are lucky, good rains down even when they are sleeping”
—and any chance of generous feeling evaporated.
Forget legacy, forget satire, forget historical context. This is downright icky. I’m not saying that Perrault’s and the Grimms’ versions were flawless, but they at least turned the material into something respectable and enchanting (and thank goodness for that). There’s no such redemption here: “Sun, Moon, and Talia” is better lost to time.
March 27, 2015
Of all the Sleeping Beauty tales I read, I found “Sun, Moon, and Talia”, to be the most striking. This was definitely an entertaining tale for adults, and not meant for children. When Talia was considered dead, her wretched father “closed the doors and abandoned forever the house where he had suffered this great loss.” This father was not a loving one, because he left his daughter without a care, or proper mourning. This reveals to me that he is a coward and a man of no compassion.
The king takes advantage of Talia, while she is unconscious, “he beheld her charms and felt his blood course hotly through his veins. He lifted her in his arms and carried her to a bed, where he gathered the first fruits of love.” When he was finished, he left her on the bed, to return to his kingdom and pressing business, not knowing that he impregnated this virgin. I was shocked to find this written into a fairy tale! If this were read to a child, they may not have recognized the meaning of the language used, in referencing making love to a virgin; to, first fruits of love.
It turns out the king is already married, and when his wife finds out he is visiting another woman, who has bore his two children, she is infuriated. She told the cook to kill the children and serve them to the king.
The use of the word bitch in referencing the queen, is another indication that this could not have been written for children. As a child, I never read a fairy tale like this. If I had, I would probably not sleep well at all, for fear of ogre-like queens and unsuspecting kings!
The king takes advantage of Talia, while she is unconscious, “he beheld her charms and felt his blood course hotly through his veins. He lifted her in his arms and carried her to a bed, where he gathered the first fruits of love.” When he was finished, he left her on the bed, to return to his kingdom and pressing business, not knowing that he impregnated this virgin. I was shocked to find this written into a fairy tale! If this were read to a child, they may not have recognized the meaning of the language used, in referencing making love to a virgin; to, first fruits of love.
It turns out the king is already married, and when his wife finds out he is visiting another woman, who has bore his two children, she is infuriated. She told the cook to kill the children and serve them to the king.
The use of the word bitch in referencing the queen, is another indication that this could not have been written for children. As a child, I never read a fairy tale like this. If I had, I would probably not sleep well at all, for fear of ogre-like queens and unsuspecting kings!
March 11, 2017
So this is the story that originated Sleeping Beauty.
This is one of the weirdest things I have ever read.
I did not really understand the morals of these characters nor the moral of the story itself.
I guess in this world it's okay to rape an unconscious girl because she seems lovely; women can give birth to twins with the aid of kindly fairies while still unconscious, and easily fall in love with the man who raped them once he tells them what happened; jealous queens/wives will try to cook the bastard kids that came out of an affair their husbands/kings had with a random chick who just so happened to be unconscious in an abandoned castle, and serve them to their father/said husband/king. Amongst other creepy events.
Strange, gory and creepy, yet definitely entertaining.
This is one of the weirdest things I have ever read.
I did not really understand the morals of these characters nor the moral of the story itself.
I guess in this world it's okay to rape an unconscious girl because she seems lovely; women can give birth to twins with the aid of kindly fairies while still unconscious, and easily fall in love with the man who raped them once he tells them what happened; jealous queens/wives will try to cook the bastard kids that came out of an affair their husbands/kings had with a random chick who just so happened to be unconscious in an abandoned castle, and serve them to their father/said husband/king. Amongst other creepy events.
Strange, gory and creepy, yet definitely entertaining.
July 26, 2016
A very good book.I preferred it to the more well-known one as it was more gory and... well, it just wasn't what you would expect really.the storyline was very interesting and I think that if you get the chance to read it, then you should - it's a very short book. The original versions out fairytales are so much better than the Disney versions - at least, I think they are, and you might if you prefer gorier versions of things. :)
http://daryllorettecafe.typepad.com/t... - link to 'Sun, Moon and Talia'.
http://daryllorettecafe.typepad.com/t... - link to 'Sun, Moon and Talia'.
May 22, 2022
The original story that evolved into 'Sleeping Beauty'. Its interesting but also quite creepy.
October 22, 2014
Trauma.
February 21, 2015
This Sleeping Beauty retelling is so fuckin messed up. Creepy hell!
January 6, 2017
Dark and disturbing.
And I thought the original Little Red Riding Hood was dark...
And I thought the original Little Red Riding Hood was dark...
January 16, 2023
La historia es buena, pero no creo que sea de lo más apropiada para un cuento infantil, claramente no se hace mención textual de las cosas que están mal en el propio texto, al fin y al cabo se mantiene la ilusión de que es infantil, pero aún así existe el hecho de que están haciendo quedar a un abuso sexual como un acto de amor por parte del Rey a Talia; cuando en los siguientes párrafos de la historia hasta ella le dice a la Reina que su esposo tomo su cuerpo sin ella estar consiente y a la Reina no le importa, solo incrimina a Talia por lo sucedido, cómo si ella hubiera consentido el acto.
No sé, este cuento es raro, por un lado es entretenido pero por el otro tiene muchos aspectos que creo que no son aptos para la lectura de niños pequeños y puesto que es un predecesor de la historia de la Bella Durmiente me tiene algo mortificada que la protagonista quede embarazada estando bajo la maldición de estar dormida para siempre.
Bueno, creo que para consumo crítico es un buen entretenimiento, pero para consumo de disfrute infantil es algo incorrecto; descartando todo lo demás y tomando en cuenta que es un texto publicado en 1636 sigue siendo bastante entretenido y tiene giños a algo de mitología romana.
No sé, este cuento es raro, por un lado es entretenido pero por el otro tiene muchos aspectos que creo que no son aptos para la lectura de niños pequeños y puesto que es un predecesor de la historia de la Bella Durmiente me tiene algo mortificada que la protagonista quede embarazada estando bajo la maldición de estar dormida para siempre.
Bueno, creo que para consumo crítico es un buen entretenimiento, pero para consumo de disfrute infantil es algo incorrecto; descartando todo lo demás y tomando en cuenta que es un texto publicado en 1636 sigue siendo bastante entretenido y tiene giños a algo de mitología romana.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
October 3, 2023
El famoso y perturbante predecesor de "La bella durmiente" nos trae:
• Un padre cobarde y misógino
• Una protagonista sumisa
• Un rey abusador
• Una esposa irracional, pero es la única voz femenina que se hace notar (y por lo mismo es la mala)
En resumen: todo mal.
Pensando en la época (1636), llego a entender la representación y como la mujer valía menos que nada: para el padre ni siquiera valía la pena darle una apropiada sepultura a su hija (cuando la creía muerta); para el rey fue solo un botín que encontró y utilizó para lo único que le servía (placer); por último la falta de comprensión y rivalidad presentada entre las 2 mujeres porque ¿alguna debía ser la reina, no? ¿Qué otra función podían tener?
Claro que no apoyo estos estereotipos, pero (tristemente) a través de relatos como éste vemos cual era la posición de la mujer en la sociedad.
Gracias a la vida nací en esta época, porque no me imagino crecer escuchando esta historia.
#Romantizando_el_abuso_desde_tiempos_inmemorables <\3
• Un padre cobarde y misógino
• Una protagonista sumisa
• Un rey abusador
• Una esposa irracional, pero es la única voz femenina que se hace notar (y por lo mismo es la mala)
En resumen: todo mal.
Pensando en la época (1636), llego a entender la representación y como la mujer valía menos que nada: para el padre ni siquiera valía la pena darle una apropiada sepultura a su hija (cuando la creía muerta); para el rey fue solo un botín que encontró y utilizó para lo único que le servía (placer); por último la falta de comprensión y rivalidad presentada entre las 2 mujeres porque ¿alguna debía ser la reina, no? ¿Qué otra función podían tener?
Claro que no apoyo estos estereotipos, pero (tristemente) a través de relatos como éste vemos cual era la posición de la mujer en la sociedad.
Gracias a la vida nací en esta época, porque no me imagino crecer escuchando esta historia.
#Romantizando_el_abuso_desde_tiempos_inmemorables <\3
November 30, 2024
The story itself is interesting, but I had to knock off 3 stars for the sexual assault on the princess while asleep. We are supposed to believe this King, who cheated on his Queen and raped a princess while unconscious, is the GOOD GUY? No. Also to write that Talia was HAPPY to know she was raped by this king is so unreal. To end it with a proverb too. Yuck. Supposedly an early version of Sleeping Beauty, even the Brothers Grimm version made it better albeit very short. This is truly not a story to encourage. The Queen being angry is justified but her hatred is pointed in the wrong direction.
February 24, 2025
I was able to find a translation of this story which is the original "Sleeping Beauty." It is short but sweet with all the usual motifs of a great fairy tale: good vs. evil, king and queen, evil gets their in the end, and the rest live happily ever after. I think my biggest issue with this story is that Talia was impregnated while she was asleep, not just asleep but under a spell. I find this kind of element strange in stories for children.
May 30, 2019
I wonder what type of audience Basile was thinking when he was writing this. :(
May 20, 2024
Esta historia es una de las versiones escritas más antigua de La Bella Durmiente; esta es una historia en la que podemos encontrar temáticas como la violación, la necrofilia, o el canibalismo; en resumen, esta historia es una prueba absoluta de que los cuentos de hadas, no eran en un principio, obras dirigidas a los niños.
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June 11, 2025Tous les contes qui apparaissent sur mon compte actuellement sont lus pour le mémoire d'une amie. Cela dit, je recommande fortement la lecture de "Le Bel au Bois dormant et autres contes où les princesse volent au secours de leur prince" de Karrie Fransman et Jonathan Plackett et de "Remake : Leurs contes de Perrault" d'un collectif d'auteurices qui valent le détour.
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May 12, 2020The origin of sleeping beauty. For god sake. It a rape case glittered with stupidity of (I'm ok being rape as long as the u will love me forever) heck! And worst.. The king! Oh god how muchh I hate him! Thank god it was 18th centuries. Or it will be in law sued.
January 8, 2025
4.5 estrellas.
Una historia que todos conocemos, pero con un giro oscuro, pense que esto era unico de los hermanos Grimm, pero Basile cambia las cosas, o más bien, los demás pudieron cambiar la historia de Basile.
Una historia que todos conocemos, pero con un giro oscuro, pense que esto era unico de los hermanos Grimm, pero Basile cambia las cosas, o más bien, los demás pudieron cambiar la historia de Basile.
March 4, 2025
A story of rape and plotted murder has the ending lesson of - "Those whom fortune favors
Find good luck even in their sleep."... ... ... Girl pricked to death, raped while death by a married man, and then almost killed by his wife. - speechless.
Find good luck even in their sleep."... ... ... Girl pricked to death, raped while death by a married man, and then almost killed by his wife. - speechless.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
November 21, 2025
Estuvo muy meh.
La verdad es que yo llegue a entender a la esposa del rey por más cuestionable que fuera.
Ese hombre no se merecía dos mujeres locas por él y tampoco a sus hijos: Sol y Luna.
Talia es solo una víctima que se queda con ese papel hasta el final.
Me da pesar porque corre el riesgo de repetir la historia de la reina o hasta terminar peor.
Porque ella al tener hijos, tendrá impacto tanto físico como psicólogico. En cambio, la reina tenía la ventaja de no tener herederos.
La verdad es que yo llegue a entender a la esposa del rey por más cuestionable que fuera.
Ese hombre no se merecía dos mujeres locas por él y tampoco a sus hijos: Sol y Luna.
Talia es solo una víctima que se queda con ese papel hasta el final.
Me da pesar porque corre el riesgo de repetir la historia de la reina o hasta terminar peor.
Porque ella al tener hijos, tendrá impacto tanto físico como psicólogico. En cambio, la reina tenía la ventaja de no tener herederos.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
June 2, 2017
Some fairytales are unbelievable.
August 26, 2017
Dark and Gruesome! Loved it!
September 29, 2019
Read this for a blog post I wrote which you can find here:
https://feedthecrime.wordpress.com/20...
https://feedthecrime.wordpress.com/20...
March 8, 2021
what this is not it first off why u do this it messed up
Displaying 1 - 30 of 56 reviews