Jump to ratings and reviews
Rate this book

The Nether World [with Biographical Introduction]

Rate this book
The Nether World [with Biographical Introduction]

391 pages, Kindle Edition

First published January 1, 1889

46 people are currently reading
1847 people want to read

About the author

George Gissing

425 books200 followers
People best know British writer George Robert Gissing for his novels, such as New Grub Street (1891), about poverty and hardship.

This English novelist who published twenty-three novels between 1880 and 1903. From his early naturalistic works, he developed into one of the most accomplished realists of the late-Victorian era.

Born to lower-middle-class parents, Gissing went to win a scholarship to Owens College, the present-day University of Manchester. A brilliant student, he excelled at university, winning many coveted prizes, including the Shakespeare prize in 1875. Between 1891 and 1897 (his so-called middle period) he produced his best works, which include New Grub Street, Born in Exile , The Odd Women , In the Year of Jubilee , and The Whirlpool . The middle years of the decade saw his reputation reach new heights: some critics count him alongside George Meredith and Thomas Hardy, the best novelists of his day. He also enjoyed new friendships with fellow writers such as Henry James, and H.G. Wells, and came into contact with many other up-and-coming writers such as Joseph Conrad and Stephen Crane.

Ratings & Reviews

What do you think?
Rate this book

Friends & Following

Create a free account to discover what your friends think of this book!

Community Reviews

5 stars
310 (31%)
4 stars
380 (38%)
3 stars
206 (20%)
2 stars
68 (6%)
1 star
32 (3%)
Displaying 1 - 30 of 97 reviews
Profile Image for Laysee.
620 reviews328 followers
February 10, 2023
I cannot explain why I have so much trouble trying to recall the author’s name. I kept thinking ‘Henry Hissing’ and knew it was wrong. Silly me. I also wondered why I have never heard of him until the Obscure Reading Group picked his notable 1889 work for a group read.

George Gissing (1857 – 1903) was an English novelist, a realist writer of the late Victorian era, who had published 23 novels. His writing reminded me very much of Charles Dickens, an author I revere.

The Nether World painted a very bleak and brutal picture of life in Victorian London amongst the working poor. Gissing’s evocative prose allowed me to visualize the gloomy streets, the tiny rooms inhabited by bone-weary parents and hungry or sickly children, feel the harshness of winter when threadbare clothing was no protection, share the anxiety and desperation of folks who struggle to make ends meet. I believe Gissing wrote this novel from first-hand experience of poverty.

Here is a description of life in Clerkenwell:

”Go where you may in Clerkenwell, on every hand are multiform evidences of toil, intolerable as a nightmare…Here every alley is thronged with small industries; all but every door and window exhibits the advertisement of a craft that is carried on within, Here you may see how men have multiplied toil for toil’s sake, have wrought to devise work superfluous, have worn their lives away in imagining new forms of weariness… But that those who sit here through the livelong day, through every season, through all the years of the life that is granted them, who strain their eyesight, who overtax their muscles, who nurse disease in their frames, who put resolutely from them the thought of what existence might be – that these do it all without prospect or hope for reward save the permission to eat and sleep and bring into the world other creatures to strive with them for bread, surely that thought is yet more marvellous.”

Hard work alone does not make life in Clerkenwell the nether world. Gissing presented a world in which coming into unexpected wealth ironically precipitated great evil and suffering. Avaricious and self-serving individuals went all out to take what was not theirs when elderly Michael Snowdon came into a handsome inheritance This story illustrates the Biblical truth that the love of money is the root of all evil. One of the key characters, Kirkwood reflected, “There shall be no possibility of perfect faith between men until there is no such thing as money!”.

Gissing filled the nether world with detestable and cruel characters. Top of this vicious clan were Clem Peckover and her landlord mother who derived pleasure from starving their housemaid, Jane Snowdon. The latter was forced to sleep next to a coffin. The Peckover pests schemed and plotted to rob the rightful Snowdon heirs of their inherited wealth.

On top of poverty, there was domestic violence which simply made life hell. Consider Bob Hewett, a good-for-nothing loafer and odd-job laborer who battered his wife, Pennyloaf, and was glad when their baby died at birth. Nether world indeed.

One would hope that at least romance or love will save the day and make life more bearable for the protagonists, Cinderella-like Jane and Sidney Kirkwood, the first man who showed her kindness. However, the nether world extended into the romance department, too, with contenders (Clara Hewett and Clem Peckover) seeking Kirkwood’s attention and affection. You have to read the plotting, scheming, and emotional blackmail that made it all but impossible for true love to bring deliverance.

Like Dickens, Gissing was a master storyteller. He kept me turning pages even though round about chapter 24, I was worn out by all the venom amongst fighting and clawing females. That episode with the two aspiring actresses (Clara Hewett and Grace Rudd) vying for stardom was shocking. Gissing deserved credit for excellent characterization. His characters were so fully developed we know them well enough to predict decisions they would undertake, behaviors that were consistent with who Gissing made them out to be. Sometimes I wish they would act out of character (think Kirkwood). But in the nether world, this too was impossible.

Read The Nether World. It is a supremely well-written classic. Thank you, Obscure Group, for putting this book on my radar. Great pick for group read and discussion.
Profile Image for Beverly.
949 reviews444 followers
October 14, 2018
The Nether World is another great book by George Gissing, the unsung hero of the Victorian age. His New Grub Street exposes the writing world and its horrors and The Nether World examines the world of the poor. Poverty, then and now is thought of as the responsibility of the poor. As if you could somehow get a better job or if only you worked harder or kept to a straight path with no deviations you could pull yourself out of it. There was virtually no upward mobility then or now, but people born into the upper and middle class think that it's all dependent on the morality of the person.
Gissing shows that even the most decent, hard-working people are doomed from the start and must accept this and do accept this and the wonderful thing about them is that they continue to work and strive and put food on the table and house their families, even though there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
Profile Image for nastya .
388 reviews498 followers
March 20, 2023
It is a story about a vast cast of characters, all from the nether world, never to leave it. We meet characters full of dreams, young, hopeful and then we leave them weathered and a little bit broken. The biggest issue for them is money, the money to buy some meat for a sick malnutritioned child and some coles for warmth. And yet, whenever the character gets a substantial sum of money, they only bring misery and suffering.

I counted nine important characters in the cast but I think the main characters of the story are Jane and Sidney, she is the abused neglected child who grew up to be a kind caring woman. And him, an artistic young man who gets more on his plate than he can handle.

The novel is fantastic, it’s modern, polemical, introspective, with impeccable characterization. Maybe the writing is plain (I see your criticism, Woolf) and yet Gissing is such an astute observer of people. He created very complicated people that can live just near you, there’s no soapiness in his writing. The child who was abused and not fed suffers from ptsd as an adult and has difficulties in learning, she carries that trauma with her. The incredible weight of poverty and suffering drives people to alcohol at the point when they can no longer bear. There’s nothing quirky or twee in Gissing’s poverty, no I capture a castle nonsense.

Unlike in the North and South, we don’t have an outsider encountering poverty or poor people idolizing our heroine and used as a prop to teach her. Gissing just drops you inside that world. And yet Gissing's portrayal is empathetic, they are complicated humans to him. It’s institutions and society that are keeping them down.

I’ve seen people say this is depressing and bleak, and it is. But for me, the ending was bittersweet. Yes, they all suffer, and yet while they still have each other, all the people they love, they’ll manage. Not happiness exactly, but solace and sometimes that’s enough. And there’s always hope.

In each life little for congratulation. He with the ambitions of his youth frustrated; neither an artist, nor a leader of men in the battle for justice. She, no saviour of society by the force of a superb example; no daughter of the people, holding wealth in trust for the people’s needs. Yet to both was their work given. Unmarked, unencouraged save by their love of uprightness and mercy, they stood by the side of those more hapless, brought some comfort to hearts less courageous than their own. Where they abode it was not all dark. Sorrow certainly awaited them, perchance defeat in even the humble aims that they had set themselves; but at least their lives would remain a protest against those brute forces of society which fill with wreck the abysses of the nether world.

Not the easiest read but I don’t think I’ll forget these people any time soon.
Profile Image for robin friedman.
1,933 reviews386 followers
June 27, 2025
The Nether World

In his novel "The Nether World", George Gissing offers an unsentimental, grim, and uncompromising portrayal of life in the London slums in the last third of the nineteenth century. Gissing (1853 -- 1903) was a late Victorian English novelist who deserves to be better known. As a promising young student, Gissing fell in love with and stole to support a prostitute, Helen Harrison ("Nell").After a prison term and a subsequent stay in the United States, Gissing returned to England and married Nell in what proved to be a stormy and unhappy relationship for both parties. Nell died in 1888 after she and Gissing had been separated for six years. When Gissing saw the conditions of the foul room in which Nell lived, he vowed to write a book in her memory to expose the abysmal character of London slum life. The result was "The Nether World" (1889). It is Gissing's seventh novel and his fifth and final book set in the London slums. Together with "New Grub Street", "The Odd Women", and "Born in Exile" it is among Gissing's best novels. Unlike most of Gissing's books, "The Nether World" is generally in print and accessible.

Although Nell's death moved Gissing to write this novel, little in it is autobiographical. Gissing had lived in the slums of London he describes after his return from the United States. He was a compulsive and inveterate walker of city streets and a detailed observer of what he saw. He also did a great deal of reading, both of novels and of studies of the urban poor, that found its way into this book.

The book is lengthy and densely plotted. It is set in its entirety in a small area called Clerkenwell with few scenes of life outside the slum. On first blush, the novel can be read as a series of scenes and episodes of slum life and of characterizations of the varied residents of Clerkenwell. The elaborate plot initially appears hazy but emerges as the book proceeds. The novel includes an extended group of characters who are carefully delineated. The novel centers on a young man, Sidney Kirkwood and a younger woman, Jane Snowdon. As with other Gissing male lead characters, Kirkwood has a degree of artistic and intellectual interests that makes him restless. He has a steady job setting jewelry which places him on the higher levels of the nether world. Jane Snowdon is a young girl of 13 when the story begins and suffers from abusive treatment from the owners of a cheap rooming house, Clem Peckover and Clem's mother. Jane is rescued from the worst of the abuse by John Hewitt, an aging and struggling worker who rooms with his large family in the Peckover house.

The plot centers upon the appearance of an aged man, Jane's grandfather, Michael Snowdon, and separately upon the appearance of Jane's father, John Snowdon, a wastrel who abandoned Jane when she was young to the cruelties of the Peckovers for whom she works as a scullion. Michael Snowdon has lived in Australia and rumors, which prove to be well-founded, circulate throughout the nether world that he has become wealthy. The plot revolves around Michael's wealth and his will, as John Snowdon and the Peckovers scheme, together and against one another, to take the old man's money upon his death. Their attempts are vicious and low in the extreme. As Jane reaches the age of 16-17, she and Kirkwood fall in love. Kirkwood plans to marry her but backs off because he does not wish to be seen as scheming for Michael's money and because Michael has planned to use his money for charitable purposes only to be administered by Jane and by Sidney. Sidney marries the daughter of John Hewitt, Clara who had spurned him years earlier. Talented, ambitious, and selfish, Clara had run off from Clerkenwell in the hopes of becoming an actress. A rival had thrown acid in Clara's face permanently disfiguring her, and Clara had returned to her father in Clerkenwell because she had no other place to go. Largely out of a sense of duty, Sidney marries Clara in a relationship that proves depressingly unhappy.

Scenes of Clerkenwell, the streets, the garment factories, the fetid, crowded and unsanitary dwellings, the criminality, the hopelessness, and the venality of the residents are tightly drawn without hint of sentimentality or idealism, unlike, for example, Dickens. The descriptive scenes of the novel include a chapter called "Io Saturnalia!", which is a description of the poor masses during a bank holiday. Another chapter "The Soup Kitchen" describes the response of the Clerkenwell residents to attempted charity.

Among the many characters in the novel is a young woman named Pennyloaf Candy who marries Bob Hewitt, the rootless and ultimately criminal son of John. Pennyloadf is subjected to endless abuse which she endures unstintingly. Another figure from Clerkenwell is Mad Jack who functions as a prophetic figure. In a chapter "Mad Jack's dream" late in the book, Mad Jack exclaims:" This life you are now leading is that of the dammed; this place to which you are confined is Hell! There is no escape for you! From poor you shall become poorer; the older you grow, the lower shall you sink in want and misery; at the end there is waiting for you, one and all, a death in abandonment and despair. This is Hell -- Hell-Hell!"

Gissing's portrayal of the nether world is bleak. From this novel, he sees no hope of redemption, either in the form of education, charity, or social change. His attitude towards his characters is a difficult mixture of sympathy and hopelessness. "The Nether World" is Gissing at his harshest and most pessimistic. A difficult novel, "The Nether World" succeeds in capturing the world of a woman Gissing loved, Nell Harrison.

Robin Friedman
Profile Image for Katie Lumsden.
Author 3 books3,701 followers
July 22, 2017
A brilliant, brilliant read - one of the best and most-underrated Victorian novels. Although a bleak story, it examines the lives of the urban poor in 1870s London so brilliantly and paints such real portraits its characters that I can't help but adore this book.
Profile Image for Ken.
Author 3 books1,203 followers
Read
February 4, 2023
A pleasant surprise and nice how-do-you-do to a previously unknown Victorian author.
Profile Image for Kathleen.
Author 1 book257 followers
February 6, 2023
“To stab the root of a young tree, to hang crushing burdens upon it, to rend off its early branches—that is not the treatment likely to result in growth such as nature purposed. There will come of it a vicious formation, and the principle applies also to the youth of men.”

It’s the 1870’s, in the London slum of Clerkenwell. An old man has just arrived from Australia, and he’s looking for his son. We meet characters of a variety of ages, occupations and family situations, but with one thing in common: they are all struggling to survive or have intimately known that struggle. This isn’t a story of clashing classes. We’re deep inside the nether world where there is only one class--the poor, and we go down their streets, into their homes, and into their lives.

George Gissing uses a sort of smorgasbord of Victorian literary styles: settings written with the intensity I loved in Wuthering Heights; authorial intrusions of compassionate social commentary similar to George Eliot; Dickensian names, like Clem Peckover and Pennyloaf Candy. He adds to this mix his own flair for characterization and plot, giving his people detailed, diverse and realistic longings and showing how their fates ebb and flow with the twists and turns of his story.

It’s a strongly plot-driven novel, but one that revolves around a social condition: poverty. Gissing apparently had some experience of his own with this condition, and he has some opinions about what keeps people in this wretched state. Yes, he gives his own opinions to the reader at times, but they’re also effectively shown through the high-stakes lives of his characters.

I haven’t read Gissing before, and I’m very impressed with his gritty, unsentimental prose, something that feels modern and refreshing in a Victorian novel. I look forward to exploring more of his work.

“If only we had pity on one another, all the worst things we suffer from in this world would be at an end. It’s because men’s hearts are hard that life is so full of misery.”
Profile Image for Tara.
Author 14 books47 followers
May 24, 2009
This is a brilliant novel and George Gissing deserves more credit. He should be as famous as Dickens or Eliot. As the title suggests it is about the working class, set in Clerkenwell which was, in the Victorian era,one of the most deprived areas of London. Gissing came from a middle-class background and this shows, but his life was a difficult one and he experienced poverty at first hand. There are many characters, all strongly drawn and if some tend to be a little grotesque, this reflects the horror of their surroundings. Gissing sets up expectations only to destroy them, and the more heroic characters are eventually crushed by their baser neighbours. Unlike other social realists of the period, Gissing had little faith in either religion or philanthropy, and in this he resembles his French contemporary, Emile Zola. 'The Nether World' also seems to anticipate later works such as Hardy's Jude The Obscure. It is a long book and may seem a bit slow at first, the style is very much of its time - but Gissing was a truly gifted writer, and his bleak vision will ultimately take your breath away.
Profile Image for Matthew Ted.
975 reviews1,019 followers
January 24, 2023
14th book of 2023.

3.5. This is what I wanted from Dickens's Hard Times, funnily enough. In fact, this novel could easily be called Hard Times and not The Nether World. Gissing's chosen title sits more in line with some Dantean vision of those who struggled in late Victorian England to work and support their families. The novel surrounds a number of characters all entwined with one another, all of them trying to make their way in life. I found numerous plot points modern almost and ahead of their time. Gissing writes well, his prose is sturdy and readable. Some of the internal monologues the characters have were brilliant and I found myself highlighting them, particularly that of Clara, who leaves home with the dream of becoming an actress. That being said, the novel is bleak from start to finish and the sense of ruin and desperation reaches the final page. It's hard to see even a glimmer of hope in Gissing's Zola-like world of realism and poverty. I read this for a book club so will hopefully add more thoughts to this review once we've had our discussions. A surprisingly good first read by Gissing for me.
Profile Image for Sue.
1,418 reviews643 followers
February 9, 2023
Read this with The Obscure Reading Group and it has turned out to be a surprisingly good experience. Very Victorian in its portrait of the lower class of workers, of people, in England, more specifically London, in the late 19th century. This is the “nether world” of which Gissing writes, a world of no promise, with no upward mobility possible.

As the novel begins, the narrator outlines the world he sees and the varied futures awaiting each person depending on where, what street, and to which parents they are born. Some of the philosophy is delivered with rather heavy hands, but there can’t be any doubt about his beliefs. He has social concerns, doubts and fears for the future.

But once Gissing lays out the groundwork and the story begins, my interest level definitely increased. Initially most activity is interpersonal as primary characters are developed and the future of the Nether World is considered. Then gradually the plot develops and there is more physical action including a fight sequence that had me reading quickly to see what would result. I was surprised at the sense of energy in this passage.

I think I noted only one possible moment of humor in the novel. Gissing is not Dickens. He is serious and totally focused on the people’s lack of future and does not offer easy (or even difficult) paths to hope. But Gissing can write. If you favor under-read Victorian authors and books, The Nether World may well be for you. Recommended.
Profile Image for Plateresca.
424 reviews93 followers
Read
February 10, 2023
In the introduction to the Oxford World's Classics edition, Stephen Gill says,
"Gissing's 'testimony against the accursed social order' is eloquent, unflinching, and without hope."
I think that one couldn't describe this book better, so, basically, you don't have to read my review below :)

This book was definitely not for me, so I don't think I should be rating it. If I was, I'd have to give it one star because I did not enjoy it at all, but let me explain: I did not want to read this particular book, it was the choice of my reading group. Still, I was interested in reading something by Gissing because he's often compared to Dickens (not sure I still want to read the other book by him that I have).
And I see that some people in the group did enjoy reading this, and they're nice and clever people, so I feel that first of all I have to explain why I'm the wrong reader for this book: I'm prone to depression and misanthropy, so reading about miserable and disgusting people awakens my most unhappy qualities.

'...a day gravely set apart for the repose and recreation of multitudes who neither know how to rest nor how to refresh themselves with pastime.'
This is exactly my opinion of what a public holiday really is, but I also think that such an outlook is not conducive to anything positive.

Dickens has a lot of miserable or disgusting characters, too, - but Dickens also has a superb sense of humour - no trace of that here. There was sarcasm, which is not the same, but, unlike Dickens's novels, there was nothing here to make me laugh out loud, and I really missed this. Well, I was reading Tolkien's bio at the same time and it seemed so exciting and funny compared to this one, - normally I find fiction more entertaining than non-fiction.

I also think Gissing overexplains the psychology of his characters - consider this quote, for instance:
'Whenever she thought of Sidney Kirkwood, the injury he was inflicting upon her pride rankled into bitter resentment, unsoftened by the despairing thought of self-subdual which had at times visited her sick weariness.'

And nobody is very likeable, - but there are characters who behave decently.

So it's a very pessimistic book about the joyless, hopeless life of the poor of London. The plot is not uninteresting, but I thought the best parts of it were borrowed from, or were an homage to, Charlotte Brontë and Dickens.

To say something favourable, I liked it that the chapters have names.
I was so happy when I finished this glad that I've read this, so now I know that I love Dickens because he's Dickens, not because he's Victorian.

Regarding this particular edition, the old Oxford World's Classics with an introduction by Stephen Gill. The introduction - or rather, the article, because it contains spoilers and we're advised to read it after the novel itself - is very good, really informative. But the layout of this book is probably the worst I've seen - it was the first time ever that I preferred my Kindle edition to the paper edition. The text is very small, the interval between the lines is practically non-existent, and yet there's a huge margin at the end of the page.

I do hope to enjoy the rest of the books that I read this year much more :)
Profile Image for F.R..
Author 37 books221 followers
January 22, 2015
This evocation of the poorest people in the poorest parts of Victorian London does of course bring Dickens to mind. Yet this has none of young Charles’s sentimentality – we have little hope and no happy ending forced upon the characters. This probably comes from the differing biographies of the authors: Dickens was poor as a child but spent nearly all of his adulthood in affluent circumstances, while Gissing was constantly hard-up. This is reflected in the texture of the book, with the author viewing poverty as a grind whose permanency cannot be broken.

We follow a number of characters around industrial Clerkenwell (which is now a very media-friendly part of London) and discover their grim lives. The chapter concerning the marriage of Bob Hewitt and Pennyloaf Candy is particularly brutal. This is not an easy read, as it builds hardness onto hardness and offers little respite. However, the details and Gissing’s obvious sympathy with his characters (one pantomime villainess apart), makes it well worth persevering.
Profile Image for Candace.
Author 2 books77 followers
May 11, 2019
Once again, Gissing astonishes me. Why isn't he more well-known? His writing is superb and his subject matter, the effects of poverty and social oppression, are presented from first-hand knowledge. The grueling hardships of Victorian London's working poor test their character, for better or worse, yes, but it's the unrelenting struggle to obtain enough food and coal for themselves and their children that wears down even the hardiest of souls because ultimately, there is no hope for a better life. Yes, it's a depressing read, but it's honest and gripping. I'll always think of this when reading the more popular Victorian novels about the lives and loves of those in the upper classes.
Profile Image for Antoine Vanner.
Author 17 books51 followers
February 10, 2018
I've known of George Gissing's novels by reputation for many years but I was always put off reading them by the impression that they were depressing to the ultimate degree. I finally bit the bullet and read "The Nether World" recently and found that I could hardly put it down - I finished it in half-a-dozen sittings. Yes - the story is depressing, but it has such energy about it that carries the reader with it. Gissing has the gift of making one really care about the characters and hoping that all will turn out well for them (it mostly doesn't!). "The Nether World" provides insights into the most brutally squalid aspects of the life of the London poor in the 1880s - I cannot think of any other Victorian author that managed this so unsparingly. The obvious comparison is with Emile Zola, but even his work presents a less bleak view of existence. Gissing was a pessimist - his own life was wretchedly unhappy, largely through his own making - but despite this he has a remarkable ability to make on wonder "what happened next?" to his tragic characters. I followed reading "The Nether World" with Gissing's best-known work, "New Grub Street", and found it similarly enthralling.
Profile Image for Max Fincher.
Author 4 books1 follower
January 13, 2017
Although some readers may find Gissing's pessimism and lack of humour a turn off, his knowledge of what was the reality of the working poor of London, and Clerkenwell in particular, in the 1880s and 1890s is probably second only to Dickens. At times, it feels as if the shadow of Dickens lurks over Gissing - there are several influences at work, and obvious debts - but undoubtedly, 'The Nether World', like the French realist novelists (e.g. Zola) with whom Gissing was contemporary, shows us an unflinching and honest insight into how the idea of change from both within and without seemed almost impossible until the General Strike of the 1920s, when workers' rights were advanced, along with women's emancipation. The idea of an 'underclass' is not a new phenomenon; Gissing's novel is a document to it, warts and all.
Profile Image for Ricardo Moedano.
Author 19 books20 followers
August 15, 2015
splendour in squalor

It is fortunate indeed that Gissing, while exploring the seediest region of the capital of the British Empire at the close of the 19th century, and relating the loathsome conditions of its denizens, neither lost himself in maudlin meanderings as Dickens was wont to, nor did he, like Hardy, ordain every possible, however improbable, reason for distress to befall a single character. Gissing doles out calamities widely, plus, rather than resorting to prolix ramblings to point out what disgusts him, he makes concise remarks: Society produces many a monster, but the mass of those whom, after creating them, it pronounces bad are merely bad from the conventional point of view; they are guilty of weaknesses, not of crimes (chapter XXIX); Poverty makes a crime of every indulgence (chapter XXXI).

Now, in terms of framing the drama, Gissing is, as honest and loyal Sidney Kirkwood professed himself in chapter XXXI too, not one of those people who use every accident to point a moral, and begin by inventing the moral to suit their own convictions.

While the human baseness and general ordeal of the penurious population laid bare in this volume appalled me all along, its phrasing fascinated me: even those descriptions of the most gruesome environments and reflections on utter anguish are simply gorgeous if astonishing also. For instance:

On all the doorsteps sat little girls, themselves only just out of infancy, nursing or neglecting bald, red-eyed, doughy-limbed abortions in every stage of babyhood, hapless spawn of diseased humanity, born to embitter and brutalise yet further the lot of those who unwillingly gave them life. With wide, pitiful eyes Jane looked at each group she passed. Three years ago she would have seen nothing but the ordinary and the inevitable in such spectacles, but since then her moral and intellectual being had grown on rare nourishment; there was indignation as well as heartache in the feeling with which she had learnt to regard the world of her familiarity
. (chapter XV)
The tendencies which we agree to call good and bad became in her (Clara, the aspiring actress) merely directions of a native force which was at all times in revolt against circumstance. Characters thus moulded may go far in achievement, but can never pass beyond the bounds of suffering. Never is the world their friend, nor the world's law. (chapter XXXII)
Think of Hardy expounding on the countryside; although Gissing's object of observation is the metropolis, the zeal and detail wherewith Hardy executed his portrayals is also a feature in this book, nevertheless it now serves to illustrate corruption and degradation:
John Hewett was not the only father who has come forth after nightfall from an obscure home to look darkly at the faces passing on these broad pavements. At times he would shrink into a shadowed corner, and peer thence at those who went by under the gaslight. When he moved forward, it was with the uneasy gait of one who shuns observation; you would have thought, perchance, that he watched an opportunity of begging and was shamefaced: it happened now and then that he was regarded suspiciously. A rough-looking man, with grizzled beard, with eyes generally bloodshot, his shoulders stooping—naturally the miserable are always suspected where law is conscious of its injustice. (chapter XXIV)

Therefore, as far as the subject matter is concerned, I consider The People of the Abyss by Jack London the The Nether World's true next of kin; nay, a perfect supplement also, since the former work is a brutal yet authentic account of the author´s personal experience as a hobo in the East End slums of his namesake city fourteen years after Gissing's tale was published.

Still, all is not bitterness in the Nether World: as though driven by the sentence To pity, without the power to relieve, is still more painful than to ask and be denied (spoken by Surface in Sheridan's The School for Scandal; Act V., Scene I.), Michael Snowdon, with the view of alleviating somehow the woes of his fellow Clerkenwellers, imposes a tremendous task on his granddaughter Jane, which task entails many sacrifices for her whose childhood had been marked by cruelty and humiliation before he, on a happy and wholly unexpected turn in his position (Michael Snowdon comes into possession of wealth), rescued her, but alas! later on Mr. Snowdon curtailed Jane's own desires and natural development for the sake of his project, thus becoming, despite his altruistic designs for the legions of the damned, a tyrant himself to his ward. Big irony, uh? Well, here´s another one - this book is so dismal that it dazzles.

Beside Jane's father Joseph, a downright scoundrel, Mrs Peckover and her vulgar daughter Clem, a pair of vengeful scheming harpies, the chief agents of tragedy are abstract forces present within every person, regardless of class, for it is avarice, hatred, envy, ambition, laziness and cowardice that bring about disgrace to the Nether World folk. Moreover, contrary to the Dickensian formula, there is no easy and sudden solution to their troubles, as no angel of salvation appears out of the blue (or the grey, rather, in this case) to deliver comfort to the victims, and precious little retribution against the villains is effected (and that, as mere consequence of their actions, not by a ludicrous coincidence or accident).

Therefore this work is definitely not recommended to the faint-hearted idealists, but at any rate it might appeal to your sympathy for the oppressed - and I quote Gissing again to clinch my commentary: It is a virtuous world, and our frequent condemnations are invariably based on justice; will it be greatly harmful if for once we temper our righteous judgment with ever so little mercy? (chapter XXXII).
Profile Image for Fionaonaona.
9 reviews1 follower
February 4, 2012
I had read other reviews of this before I started it, and so had been warned that it was bleak, but I hadn’t anticipated quite how bleak it would leave me feeling.

The poor are depicted in the main as being hopeless, greedy, criminal, lazy, and profligate. Completely lacking in any moral fibre, they breed excessively and squander their resources on booze, puddings, and worthless entertainments.

In a society without the safety nets of a health service or state benefits system, the odds are stacked against those who do have a desire to improve their circumstances. Minor misfortunes and ill health can have catastrophic effects. With no state pensions, people needed to work until they dropped, and it was interesting to read of characters dying their hair in order to improve their chances of getting a job. For a family who could barely cover their own needs, providing for elderly relatives might just not be feasible.

For those born in such surroundings, rising out of them requires an enormous amount of self-discipline, hard work and dedication. Only those who were realistic and practical about their circumstances, understood the value of education, and practiced honesty, hard work and prudence had any chance of survival or improvement in their circumstances.

More depressing than the poor being trapped by their own fecklessness and criminality, is the theme of human relationships which with very few exceptions, are entirely selfish and conducted without real care or compassion for others.
Profile Image for Joel.
92 reviews4 followers
December 20, 2018
"... they stood by the side of those more hapless; brought some comfort to hearts less courageous than their own. Where they abode it was not all dark. Sorrow certainly awaited them, perchance defeat in even the humble aims that they had set themselves; but at least their lives would remain a protest against those brute forces of society which fill with wreck the abysses of the Nether World."


At no point in this novel —beginning with its somber first pages of an elderly traveler; shuffling through the dark, damp slums of London, lingering before a grimacing face carved atop a penitentiary’s stone entryway, plodding determinedly through a cemeteries mist, to its lugubrious final scene; a sober, silent reverie of two protagonists confronting a graveyard headstone, their hearts heavy in resignation— does author George Gissing ever ease up on his grim portrayal of the artisans, the factory-worker children, the slum-dwellers, or the industrialized poor living in 19th century London. At no point does he provide that auspicious resolution, that anticipated joyful final denouement, or that eventual, exultant turn of luck. No. At no point will there be relief from despair. Yet, his imagery is profound; presenting a world, stark and bitter, and still hinting of that romantic Victorian stoicism. Penned in an omniscient, naturalistic writing style, it is rhythmic in pace, and graphic in detail. And by becoming emotionally abyssal in its telling, Gissing pointedly designs a unique vision, conjuring up a variation of Dante's Circle of Hell, a topic he found so intriguing that it inspired his title, The Nether World.


Published 1889, the story centers primarily in Clerkenwell, an area of central London notorious for its workshop-dwellings, small factory trades, and its impoverished aspect. It is here, in this stew of social grime and communal stench, the plot begins. The reader will witness a parade of destitute figures of all ages and temperaments, methodically presented, and then, in almost relay-race like fashion, fade organically into a new narrative and a new character; who then also melds into another, and then into another, and so on. In this manner, we quickly learn of their principles, their natures, and how they interact, develop, connect, and / or repel against each other.

For Gissing has created a troupe of personalities that are most diverse: ranging from an elderly traveler arriving back home, to a young domestic servant girl he discovers to be his granddaughter; to a mean-spirited teen who mistreats the girl and her scheming, faithless mother; to a young gentleman jeweler, who’s friendship aids the girl along with another struggling family, all of whom huddle in single room. Among this family, is an overworked father frustrated with social inequity, sacrificing for his ailing wife and mother to a starving newborn, a daughter aspiring to be an actress, and a ne’er-do-well, opportunistic son, learning how to survive on trades outside the boundaries of the law. On the streets, there are the drunkards, beggars, and thieves, and the Public Houses; dour places giving voice to the outcries against the Upper World, for those of the Nether World are out of sight and mind.

"Oh that bitter curse of poverty, which puts corrupting poison into the wounds inflicted by nature, which outrages the spirit’s tenderness, which profanes with unutterable defilement the secret places of the mourning heart!"

For The Nether World becomes only a veiled reflection of other such famous Victorian Era novels, which include characters with notoriously iconic names like Pennyloaf Candy, and Clem Peckover; assuming a familiarity in both sound and design like many of the Dickens classics. However, there is no bright Charles Dickens-esque sunshine here; no light poking through and warming the dark endless clouds of misery, only more darkening clouds. For in the Clerkenwell destitution, there is only the fight for survival in the horrid of Gissing’s slums: Shooter’s Gardens, a “winding alley”, a “black horror”, possessed by “filth, rottenness, evil odours”, there is only the declining shades of smoldering grey and blackness; descending in levels of its starvation, soiled linens, and infant mortality. Rivalries abound, and conspiracies flourish for finding food, defending a place to sleep, and scheming for the affections for potential providers.

"The economy prevailing in to-day's architecture takes good care that no depressing circumstance shall be absent from the dwellings in which the poor find shelter... Vast, sheer walls, unbroken by even an attempt at ornament; row above row of windows in the mud-colored surface, upwards, upwards, lifeless eyes, murky openings that tell of bareness, disorder, comfortableness within."

It is thus, into this Nether World there arrives, not just a catalyst for reclaiming seldom seen providence and wisdom, but also a new agitator for inspiring deceit and treachery. It is Money. A coveted fortune, a relished inducement newly arriving in the form of an inheritance, and driven by one characters obsession to be generous and help London’s poor, and through this wealth the protagonist becomes philanthropy, the antagonist becomes dark avarice. To the questions of which characters these roles will be realized, Gissing provides no comfortable verdict. Instead, he has created a world where the lack of a story is the story. A time and place of static enterprise, where every alley is thronged with small industries; skilled trades such as watchmaking and jewelry, precious metal work, and specialist printing, bookbinding, and furniture trades. Mechanization has made craft-based skills redundant, and those who once earned high wages, now take any work they can find. Yet, those who struggle tend to fear risk. And with the lure of Money so close, true character traits become revealed under the taking of a risk most would never consider. It is in this world, one of industrialized poverty, that the foundations of this story and its ideals are generated; the environment directs its inhabitants to engage in its ideals, and not the other way around.

In the upper world a youth may 'sow his wild oats' and have done with it; in the nether, 'to have your fling' is almost necessarily to fall among criminals ...

There is, however, an attractive compassion to be found in many of these characters, their reality drives their response to the anguishing personal dilemmas; the tortures of temptation, of trust, and of obligation to others as well as themselves. In Gissing's account, it's this important social concern which mitigates and relieves some of the the pessimism and the melancholy that otherwise threatens to bewilder the reader in this dark novel. The heroism here, is not the easily defined victory of choice, or the willpower to not sink into corruption, but with the ability to retain a semblance of independence, hold some virtue of self esteem, and remain uncorrupted in a world where physical and emotional brutality provide an ample argument for tolerating all lapse of justice.


Despite its dark tone, The Nether World remains a engrossing read; memorable and unique in the respect that it never veer's in a direction —either with plot or characters— that the reader anticipates. Gissing's seems intent to deliberately underwhelm; to proffer hat one's choices often lead to the unremarkable, insisting that life is neither predictable. nor formulaic in providing that heroic transition from humble timidity. At no point either does he provide that antagonistic, malevolent reaping from the rife opportunities presenting themselves. None ever achieve either that good or ill they seemed destined for. His players, while austere, seem under-qualified for our empathy, with a tendency to disappoint our expectations while retaining only a slight lean toward either good or bad. And finally, at no point, does the reader ever find the opportunity to deliberate on their own cleverness on anticipating that shift in plot or story arc. instead, there is a message that recalls the familiar adage —with a welcome bit of irony— regarding the pointlessness of those "best laid plans" for oneself and for others ...

"Poverty makes a crime of every indulgence."
355 reviews58 followers
January 12, 2011
As other reviewers have written, this is a fascinating sociological document of working class Victorian London. I decided to read this book because of Fredric Jameson's discussion of it in his Political Unconscious. Biographical details matter: Gissing floated between nether- and upper worlds - and his relationship to the working classes was deeply ambivalent.

I think it is an interesting move that we never meet any characters from the upper world: these are only shadows. There are only various nether world denizens that aspire to escape, but even when they believe they have achieved a kind of escape velocity, it is eminently clear to the reader that a nether world creature only floats about its own world.

The narrator reminds the reader that she must suspend her sense of [bourgeois] morality in judgement of the downtrodden characters. "Were Bob Hewitt wealthy, this sort of behavior would have far different consequences." Drunkenness, hooliganism, cravenness, unfiliality, avarice, and explosive tempers of various low characters are judged harshly. Nonetheless, even the 'heroes' of the book are condemned for their own gross faults: Michael's impracticable idealism against Sidney's and Jane's dismal fatalism.
Profile Image for Marti.
431 reviews16 followers
April 2, 2020
When I downloaded this to my e-reader for $2.00 I did not realize that this was the author of New Grub Street which I probably enjoyed more because it dealt with the literary world and was probably a little more autobiographical. However, I am always drawn toward stories of Dickensian slum life. Although Gissing is not as good at creating memorable characters as Dickens, there are no eternally sunny upper-middle-class types to distract me from the interesting parts of the story (ie. the prisons, the workhouse, and squalid tenements).

However, at least two of the main protagonists of the story had a maddening propensity for for self denial in the name of preserving their integrity. I really doubted that this story could possibly have a happy ending, but I did not find out for sure until near the end. It had me turning the pages to see what would happen next.
Profile Image for booklady.
2,678 reviews99 followers
February 22, 2023
Victorian London under world or Nether World, where the poorest of the poor live ... or try to. Somehow Dickens made things come out alright for most of the good people, so the stark reality of poverty was not so stark ... and harsh in his stories. Things tend to work out for the good people and there is plenty of humor to soften the bitterness. In Gissing's tale, don't look for so much humor or many happy endings and yet in spite of the stark poverty and degradation, there is hope, kindness, friendship, salvation, honor, and love. It is rough, and yet it is a well-written memorable story.
Profile Image for Simon.
Author 5 books159 followers
December 10, 2011
That's really four and a half stars. This is very good, the psychology of the characters complex, the sustained critique of the effects of poverty very cogent. And you've got to love that one of the characters, whose name is "Penelope" but pronounced as three syllables, is called by everyone "Pennyloaf". I smiled every time I read her name despite her (slightly more than averagely) pathetic circumstances.
Profile Image for Stephen Goldenberg.
Author 3 books52 followers
April 6, 2016
A fascinating story of late Victorian poverty in London . Like so many Victorian novels, it revolves around a will and issues of inheritance. The two central characters are a bit too good to be true and the villains are in the end not quite villainous enough which makes Gissing somewhat of acut price Dickens. Nevertheless, a thoroughly enjoyable novel.
Profile Image for Kimberly.
119 reviews3 followers
January 28, 2016
This book was a great look at the struggle to survive and make a life in the poor districts of mid-18th century London and a glimpse at the numerous types of people to fill the houses of the poor, as well as being a commentary on the poor quality of living they could never expect to escape from. The Nether World broke my heart, but it was still an excellent book.
Profile Image for Cherisa B.
675 reviews72 followers
April 6, 2023
Negative and depressing, author extremely biased against the poor being lesser people of their just desserts. In the fashion of Dickens without the hopefulness or chance of betterment.
Profile Image for Kim.
712 reviews13 followers
January 22, 2020
OK, let me start by saying that the entire time I was reading this book I was reminded of Dickens. It was his London. The Victorian London, but the poor London. However, Dickens gives me moments of laughter, lots of them, and happy endings for at least some of the characters ( the good characters anyway). But not Gissing, no one laughed during entire book including me, and there were no happy endings for anybody. Dickens seemed to use his novels of the poor, for any who were suffering, for social reform. Not Gissing, in our Nether World we find that the usual remedies, whether they are political, philanthropy, trying to better oneself, – are tried during the course of the novel and none seem to help.

When I say the book was about the poor people of London, I really mean the poor people of London. There was only one person in the book who had any sort of wealth, Michael Snowdon, and all he and his money seemed to do was to make everyone else in the book more miserable than they were in the first place. Oh, if only he hadn't had the money, if only his son Joseph and so many others in the book wouldn't have tried by any means to get that money. How many lives would have ended differently? Michael didn't let anyone know he had any money, although many guessed that he did, he lived like one of the poor, but his big plan for Jane seemed to be to leave her all of his mysterious money, but only if she spends this money on charity and social work rather than on her own needs. This guy is obsessed with this idea.

Jane Snowdon is the granddaughter of Michael who has spent years working as a household servant for Mrs Peckover and her daughter Clem. She has been treated horribly by both of them, and at least her grandfather takes her away from that life when he arrives on the scene. He certainly does some good by doing that, but his money obsession ends up ruining her chance of happiness.

Then there is her annoying father Joseph, who disappeared years ago to go find work, leaving Jane with the Peckovers and not returning. Not until now anyway, now he's back and acting oh so nice to Jane and his father in the hopes of getting the money of course. He marries Clem Peckover, she marries him for the money she believes he will inherit, who knows why he marries her.

Another family in the book are the Hewitts. There is the father John, a man who can't seem to hold down and job for long, his wife who is always in poor health, getting weaker each time we see her, and all their starving children. There is Clara, their daughter, a young attractive woman. She leaves her poor family with an intention of becoming a famous actress and escaping poverty. She leaves without letting them know what happened to her and without another word for three years.

There is her absolutely horrible brother Bob, who marries another poor girl named Pennyloaf Candy. Pennyloaf is also being raised in a family filled with problems mostly stemming from her mother's constant drunkenness. Of Pennyloaf's mother it says this:

Over the fireplace, the stained wall bore certain singular ornaments.
These were five coloured cards, such as are signed by one who takes a
pledge of total abstinence; each presented the signature, 'Maria
Candy,' and it was noticeable that at each progressive date the
handwriting had become more unsteady. Yes, five times had Maria Candy
promised, with the help of God, to abstain,' &c. &c.; each time she was
in earnest. But it appeared that the help of God availed little against
the views of one Mrs. Green, who kept the beer-shop in Rosoman Street,
once Mrs. Peckover's, and who could on no account afford to lose so
good a customer.

Bob marries Pennyloaf and then ignores her, spends his money (what little he has) on his own pleasures leaving her and the children to starve, and eventually beats her. And the entire time she keeps telling people what a wonderful husband he is.

Most of these poor people, and there are many of them, seem to spend most of their time, instead of trying to help each through desperate situations, try to make the other people around them at least as miserable or more so than they already are. This book could have been so Dickens like. Jane Snowdon, after all she went through in Dickens world would have been happy in the end. Characters like Pennyloaf (what a great name!) could have been so humorous in a Dickens way. Bessie and Sam Byass too, could have had such wonderful Dickens personalities, but they didn't, they were all unhappy like everyone else.

Read the book. It probably doesn't sound like I would tell anyone to read this book, but I say, read the book. It was a good book, just be prepared to be depressed. Read it and see what horrible things Bob does to Pennyloaf, and what Grace does to Clara, and what Clem does to Jane, and who dies of what, who poisons who, and who is still alive at the end.

Lastly there is our main character Sidney Kirkwood, part of everyone's life in some way, who loves Jane but marries Clara, and they all live unhappily ever after.
Profile Image for Mark.
533 reviews19 followers
April 21, 2021
Surely The Nether World by George Gissing is his masterpiece? Having only read three of his novels (the other two being New Grub Street and The Private Papers of Henry Ryecroft), it may be a less than well-founded question. However, Gissing’s nether world—or underworld—is a graphic, realistic picture of subsistence living among the working class. Poverty is widespread, relentless, and crushing. Staple items can achieve luxury status; more often, lives are held together with bare necessities. A meal guaranteed tomorrow may require one to be missed entirely today. Such deprivation can grind down the most stout-hearted to a disposition of weariness and surrender. Diehard optimists can drift into hopelessness.

Gissing chooses to situate The Nether World in the Clerkenwell district of London and populate it with a number of desperate families—the Hewetts, Peckovers, and Candys—and and a number of equally desperate individuals, all scheming and conniving to secure their next penny or their next meal.

The plot is launched when an old man, Michael Snowdon, arrives looking for Jane Snowdon, a granddaughter he has never met. He has a fortune to bestow on her as his only living relative. Jane is 13 years old at the time; her mother is dead and her father has abandoned her to Clem Peckover and her mother, who abuse and torture her as their servant. Sidney Kirkwood, a compassionate, hardworking young man, befriends Jane and treats her kindly. He is attracted to Clara Hewett, who rebuffs him because all she wants to do is become a stage actress. Clara abandons her family and escapes from Sidney.

As years pass, it is impossible for Michael’s fortune to remain secret, and a variety of villainous and nefarious schemes arise from all and sundry to grab whatever piece of it they can. Complicating matters, Jane’s long-lost father, thought dead by all, shows up. He is an unscrupulous, mean-spirited crook, and begins plans to deceive his father and daughter out of the money. Clem Peckover becomes his partner in crime. Sidney and Jane develop affection for each other. However, Sidney has a principled but fragile ethic. He fears that people might think he is only after Jane’s future inheritance. Even though he confesses his love for Jane to her grandfather, he forces himself to back away. Jane meanwhile, sensitive about her lack of refinement and education, does not feel up to the task of fulfilling her grandfather’s wishes.

But this is the nether world, grim and brutal, where pessimism and hopelessness dominate. Clara, still trying her hand at the stage, runs afoul of a jealous rival and suffers a terrible tragedy. Bob Hewett, Clara’s brother, gets involved in a high-risk counterfeiting venture. When the walls begin to close in, he takes it out on his wife, Penelope Candy. How Gissing ties up all manner of loose ends is nothing short of brilliant.

Furthermore, this is a deeply psychological novel. The narrative skillfully peels away layer upon layer of each character, examining their unique measures of desperation. Gissing’s prose will tear at readers’ hearts as he describes various survival mechanisms—legal or otherwise—of these brutalized families. There is as much selfish, heartless behavior as there is overflowing compassion; as much true love as burning hate; and as much failure as redemption. And Gissing doesn’t offer much optimism as the story ends: readers may well be left with the harrowing notion that the reward for surviving the ravages of today in Clerkenwell is to face even more severe tests of resilience and fortitude tomorrow!
Profile Image for Cindy Newton.
783 reviews140 followers
March 18, 2023
I read this with the Obscure Group and enjoyed it (although I was REALLY behind and didn't participate in the group chat until everyone else had finished). The book is a glimpse into the desperate struggle for survival that defined the lives of those living in extreme poverty in 19th-century England. It doesn't focus on the criminal element, although some of the characters do eventually cross that line.

The story follows the fortunes of a young girl, Jane Snowdon and her family, the struggling Hewett family, and their friend, Sidney Kirkwood. Ultimately, none of the characters achieves the happiness they hoped to find, no matter how humble their expectations were. The book is a statement on how poverty not only robs people of luxuries and common necessities, but also intangibles such as opportunities, hope, and dignity.

There was some talk about comparisons to Dickens. While both address issues of social justice and reform in their writing, Dickens has, overall, a much lighter touch. Gissing lacks the comic relief provided by Dickens, and his protagonists never achieve their happily ever after. The Nether World is still a great read and highly recommended.
Profile Image for Bob Schnell.
634 reviews13 followers
October 9, 2018
Although similar to the bleaker books of Charles Dickens, George Gissing's "Nether World"goes a bit darker and adds some editorial comments along the way.

The action starts with the arrival of a mysterious stranger looking for someone by the name of Snowden. As he searches the London slums, we are introduced to several families and figures of the poor neighborhood. The book relates the entwined paths of these people, like a Victorian soap opera, with plenty of drama. There are twists and turns the reader won't expect and no guarantee of any happy endings. If the evil people seem a tad too evil and the nice people seem a little too ethical we at least are given the back stories to understand them.

Although I enjoyed the book I thought it was too long with too many scenes of characters' inner struggles and hand-wringing agonies.
Profile Image for Mike.
1,395 reviews53 followers
August 2, 2016
3.5 stars. In George Gissing I have discovered the cure for Dickens' cartoonish, overly sentimental pap. Here are gritty, honest, realistic depictions of the slums of London. Here are truly empathetic characters who aren't pathetic or patronizing. Here are moments of humor and heartache that never resort to cheap melodrama. Fran Lebowitz once called John O'Hara "the real Fitzgerald." After reading The Nether World, I'd have to borrow that turn-of-phrase and call George Gissing the real Dickens. I realize that Gissing is writing an entire generation (or two) after Dickens, but the thematic connections are so strong (and the influence so obvious) that I can't help but view Gissing as tackling the issues of class, criminality, law, and labor in a much more forceful and realistic manner, while still providing a page-turning read. Since his characters don't come off as cartoonish, I actually care about them.

In his critical study of Dickens (which I have only browsed and would love to read in full), Gissing mentions Dickens' empathy for childhood suffering, which was often accompanied by humor that heightened the humanity of his works. But it was precisely that humor that made Dickens' points ring hollow and sappy for me. Although Gissing defends Dickens against critics who berate him for creating "types," Gissing avoids that pitfall by toning down the humor significantly in The Nether World to succeed where Dickens fails in creating characters that are both memorable and believable, quirky and realistic.

Unlike some more naturalistic writers, Gissing doesn't give us the feeling he is manipulating characters like chess pieces or coldly analyzing them like so many bugs pinned to a spreading board. The result is a powerful reading experience that is more like Zola than Dickens, especially in the utter despair of the ending. I look forward to reading a few more of his novels in the future.
Displaying 1 - 30 of 97 reviews

Can't find what you're looking for?

Get help and learn more about the design.