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Darkover (Publication Order) #18
Thendara House
Magda, a Terran, joins the Free Amazons on Darkover, a group of women who have renounced all dependence on men
416 pages, Mass Market Paperback
First published January 1, 1983
11 people are currently reading
1127 people want to read
About the author
Marion Zimmer Bradley
800 books4,878 followersMarion Eleanor Zimmer Bradley was an American author of fantasy novels such as The Mists of Avalon and the Darkover series, often with a feminist outlook.
Bradley's first published novel-length work was Falcons of Narabedla, first published in the May 1957 issue of Other Worlds. When she was a child, Bradley stated that she enjoyed reading adventure fantasy authors such as Henry Kuttner, Edmond Hamilton, and Leigh Brackett, especially when they wrote about "the glint of strange suns on worlds that never were and never would be." Her first novel and much of her subsequent work show their influence strongly.
Early in her career, writing as Morgan Ives, Miriam Gardner, John Dexter, and Lee Chapman, Marion Zimmer Bradley produced several works outside the speculative fiction genre, including some gay and lesbian pulp fiction novels. For example, I Am a Lesbian was published in 1962. Though relatively tame by today's standards, they were considered pornographic when published, and for a long time she refused to disclose the titles she wrote under these pseudonyms.
Her 1958 story The Planet Savers introduced the planet of Darkover, which became the setting of a popular series by Bradley and other authors. The Darkover milieu may be considered as either fantasy with science fiction overtones or as science fiction with fantasy overtones, as Darkover is a lost earth colony where psi powers developed to an unusual degree. Bradley wrote many Darkover novels by herself, but in her later years collaborated with other authors for publication; her literary collaborators have continued the series since her death.
Bradley took an active role in science-fiction and fantasy fandom, promoting interaction with professional authors and publishers and making several important contributions to the subculture.
For many years, Bradley actively encouraged Darkover fan fiction and reprinted some of it in commercial Darkover anthologies, continuing to encourage submissions from unpublished authors, but this ended after a dispute with a fan over an unpublished Darkover novel of Bradley's that had similarities to some of the fan's stories. As a result, the novel remained unpublished, and Bradley demanded the cessation of all Darkover fan fiction.
Bradley was also the editor of the long-running Sword and Sorceress anthology series, which encouraged submissions of fantasy stories featuring original and non-traditional heroines from young and upcoming authors. Although she particularly encouraged young female authors, she was not averse to including male authors in her anthologies. Mercedes Lackey was just one of many authors who first appeared in the anthologies. She also maintained a large family of writers at her home in Berkeley. Ms Bradley was editing the final Sword and Sorceress manuscript up until the week of her death in September of 1999.
Probably her most famous single novel is The Mists of Avalon. A retelling of the Camelot legend from the point of view of Morgaine and Gwenhwyfar, it grew into a series of books; like the Darkover series, the later novels are written with or by other authors and have continued to appear after Bradley's death.
Her reputation has been posthumously marred by multiple accusations of child sexual abuse by her daughter Moira Greyland, and for allegedly assisting her second husband, convicted child abuser Walter Breen, in sexually abusing multiple unrelated children.
(from Wikipedia)
Bradley's first published novel-length work was Falcons of Narabedla, first published in the May 1957 issue of Other Worlds. When she was a child, Bradley stated that she enjoyed reading adventure fantasy authors such as Henry Kuttner, Edmond Hamilton, and Leigh Brackett, especially when they wrote about "the glint of strange suns on worlds that never were and never would be." Her first novel and much of her subsequent work show their influence strongly.
Early in her career, writing as Morgan Ives, Miriam Gardner, John Dexter, and Lee Chapman, Marion Zimmer Bradley produced several works outside the speculative fiction genre, including some gay and lesbian pulp fiction novels. For example, I Am a Lesbian was published in 1962. Though relatively tame by today's standards, they were considered pornographic when published, and for a long time she refused to disclose the titles she wrote under these pseudonyms.
Her 1958 story The Planet Savers introduced the planet of Darkover, which became the setting of a popular series by Bradley and other authors. The Darkover milieu may be considered as either fantasy with science fiction overtones or as science fiction with fantasy overtones, as Darkover is a lost earth colony where psi powers developed to an unusual degree. Bradley wrote many Darkover novels by herself, but in her later years collaborated with other authors for publication; her literary collaborators have continued the series since her death.
Bradley took an active role in science-fiction and fantasy fandom, promoting interaction with professional authors and publishers and making several important contributions to the subculture.
For many years, Bradley actively encouraged Darkover fan fiction and reprinted some of it in commercial Darkover anthologies, continuing to encourage submissions from unpublished authors, but this ended after a dispute with a fan over an unpublished Darkover novel of Bradley's that had similarities to some of the fan's stories. As a result, the novel remained unpublished, and Bradley demanded the cessation of all Darkover fan fiction.
Bradley was also the editor of the long-running Sword and Sorceress anthology series, which encouraged submissions of fantasy stories featuring original and non-traditional heroines from young and upcoming authors. Although she particularly encouraged young female authors, she was not averse to including male authors in her anthologies. Mercedes Lackey was just one of many authors who first appeared in the anthologies. She also maintained a large family of writers at her home in Berkeley. Ms Bradley was editing the final Sword and Sorceress manuscript up until the week of her death in September of 1999.
Probably her most famous single novel is The Mists of Avalon. A retelling of the Camelot legend from the point of view of Morgaine and Gwenhwyfar, it grew into a series of books; like the Darkover series, the later novels are written with or by other authors and have continued to appear after Bradley's death.
Her reputation has been posthumously marred by multiple accusations of child sexual abuse by her daughter Moira Greyland, and for allegedly assisting her second husband, convicted child abuser Walter Breen, in sexually abusing multiple unrelated children.
(from Wikipedia)
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 94 reviews
February 22, 2012
Series background: a human colony ship crash lands on the wrong planet. They name it Darkover and do their best to survive in a fairly hostile landscape. Over the centuries they forget their off-world origins and develop a vaguely feudal society. The nobility, called the Comyn, is comprised of seven families of red-heads with different psychic gifts. Women have few legal rights and are the property of fathers and husbands. Renunciates, sometimes called by others the Free Amazons, are women who reject the social system and band together in groups for mutual protection. There is also some emphasis on female virginity because only virgin women can become Keepers in the Towers where they use the the great Matrix crystals to amplify their psychic abilities.
Chronologically, the series takes place over a number of centuries, covering from the initial Darkover Landfall to eventual rediscovery by the galactic empire and its aftermath. The books were not written in chronological order, and the chronology seemed, when I tried to figure it out years ago, to not work out entirely. But most of the books work as stand-alones. The ones that have larger story-arcs and continuing characters tend to be set around the Rediscovery period. This book, for instance, comes a decade or so after The Shattered Chain and has some returning characters, but I think you could make sense of it without reading Shattered Chain first. But you really need to read this one before City of Sorcery.
Thendara House is set several years after the Terran Empire rediscovers the lost colony of Darkover. They have a base on the planet, and Madga has spent quite a bit of her childhood there and is familiar with the Darkovan culture. When her friend and colleague Peter is kidnapped and held for ransom, it makes sense that she travel "under-cover" to rescue him. Because of the oppression of native women, she decides to disguise herself as a Renunciate for safety. But when she meets a band of actual Renunciates, they quickly see through her disguise (for one thing, they never travel alone) and threaten to kill her, as is the standard practice for women who take the Renunciate name in vain. It doesn't come up in the context, but I guess this is fine with the government; their culture permits dueling et al and they don't seem to care much about what happens to women without families, anyway. Magda promises she will become a Renunciate for real if they spare her, and they help her save Peter. Jaelle, one of the Renunciates, falls in love with Peter and decides to marry him and live on the Terran Base. Magda takes her place in the Renunciate house in the capital city of Thendara.
That's all set-up. The bulk of the book is the two women's parallel experiences of culture-shock and adjustment. Despite the sword-and-sorcery setting, this is more anthropology than action and may be a decent place to dive into the series, as the perspective of Magda as a semi-outsider learning the nuances of the culture makes it clear more quickly than if you try to pick it up as you go along.
Chronologically, the series takes place over a number of centuries, covering from the initial Darkover Landfall to eventual rediscovery by the galactic empire and its aftermath. The books were not written in chronological order, and the chronology seemed, when I tried to figure it out years ago, to not work out entirely. But most of the books work as stand-alones. The ones that have larger story-arcs and continuing characters tend to be set around the Rediscovery period. This book, for instance, comes a decade or so after The Shattered Chain and has some returning characters, but I think you could make sense of it without reading Shattered Chain first. But you really need to read this one before City of Sorcery.
Thendara House is set several years after the Terran Empire rediscovers the lost colony of Darkover. They have a base on the planet, and Madga has spent quite a bit of her childhood there and is familiar with the Darkovan culture. When her friend and colleague Peter is kidnapped and held for ransom, it makes sense that she travel "under-cover" to rescue him. Because of the oppression of native women, she decides to disguise herself as a Renunciate for safety. But when she meets a band of actual Renunciates, they quickly see through her disguise (for one thing, they never travel alone) and threaten to kill her, as is the standard practice for women who take the Renunciate name in vain. It doesn't come up in the context, but I guess this is fine with the government; their culture permits dueling et al and they don't seem to care much about what happens to women without families, anyway. Magda promises she will become a Renunciate for real if they spare her, and they help her save Peter. Jaelle, one of the Renunciates, falls in love with Peter and decides to marry him and live on the Terran Base. Magda takes her place in the Renunciate house in the capital city of Thendara.
That's all set-up. The bulk of the book is the two women's parallel experiences of culture-shock and adjustment. Despite the sword-and-sorcery setting, this is more anthropology than action and may be a decent place to dive into the series, as the perspective of Magda as a semi-outsider learning the nuances of the culture makes it clear more quickly than if you try to pick it up as you go along.
March 7, 2017
This is the sequel to The Shattered Chain and begins directly where that book leaves off. It is less plot driven than the previous book; most of it deals with the culture shock experienced by the two main characters: Jaelle, the Darkovan woman who has been a Renunciate (aka Free Amazon) since she was a teen, and Magda, the Terran woman raised on Darkover who in the previous book joined the Renunciates. Both must struggle with being accepted by their new colleagues and coming to terms with the realities of - in Jaelle's case - the Terran zone with all its technological and bureaucratic strangeness, plus being in a marriage with Peter Haldane, Magda's ex husband, and -in the case of Magda/Margali - with the different expectations of the Renunciates who in effect deprogramme new members to break down the dependency on men that is normal to Darkovan women.
Magda, who is a product of both worlds, makes mistakes along the way, resulting in friction with other women in the Renunciate Guild House, while Jaelle contends with the indifference and lack of understanding of the Terrans. This is worsened by her husband's chauvinism. Magda previously divorced Peter because of his controlling ways and jealousy of her competence, although annoyingly for this reader, she continues to entertain doubts that perhaps it was her "fault" the marriage failed because she didn't want a child with him. He is an absolute pig who tries to destroy Jaelle's independence while exhibiting a smarmy 1950s style head-patting attitude. At one point, he orders her to fetch his shoes then throws a tantrum in the bathroom because she didn't order his beard removing cream! The problem is compounded because Jaelle's laran - the psychic ability a lot of Darkovans have - strengthens when she becomes pregnant, so she is made aware of his obsession with getting a son and also with climbing the greasy pole of career progression in the Terran Zone, where he sometimes views her as a liability.
Jaelle constantly has insights into Peter's bullying and small minded attitude, partly through the incipient telepathy she is developing, but she makes excuses for him to such an extent that I started to lose sympathy with her. It isn't till late on in the story that she gains the insight that . But because of this underlying reason, Jaelle becomes rather a whiny character in this book, and Magda is much more interesting and engaging, as is the new character of Cholayna Ares, an Empire woman who is dark skinned and is used by Bradley to examine the question of prejudice on a planet where the population, derived from an Earth colony centuries before, is exclusively white.
Magda, who was told in the previous book by Lady Rohana that she also has laran, experiences issues with it too, and it eventually brings her into the closeness with Jaelle that she has apparently been fighting all along. Both are caught up in a problem concerning the safety of a Terran Empire man who goes off into the foothills just before a serious storm, without waiting for help from a native guide, but there are political ramifications because he is trying to find a Terran called Andrew who has gone missing but is now operating as a Darkovan man.
Although the interactions of the various characters are of interest, some aspects of the book haven't dated well. Even in 1983, when this was published, surely the practice of referring to a married woman by her husband's name was swiftly dying out, so it comes across as ludicrous that this is the practice among Terrans thousands of years into our future: despite their supposedly 'egalitarian' society as the book blurb would have it, they insist on calling Jaelle Mrs Peter Haldane. In fact, it is pretty obvious that the Terrans as well as the Darkovans are male dominated; they just have a more 'equal' gloss over it. Despite the fact that Magda is repeatedly stated to be highly competent - her work is studied on other planets! - she is barred from senior rank supposedly because the Darkovans wouldn't accept a woman in a high position. Considering that Terran society is different in so many other aspects - chiefly its reliance on advanced technology for everything - why shouldn't the Terrans put women into prominent positions to gradually break down this attitude among the native population? Especially as women are accepted in certain roles among the Darkovan nobility, such as Keepers of the Towers and as representatives of the family from which Lady Rohana stems. This is obviously a completely transparent excuse for unfair discrimination against women, especially since the Empire would rather put a grossly incompetent man in charge who his underlings have to constantly steer into not causing a diplomatic incident. This issue isn't really explored in the book which dwells more on the aspects of male-female personal relationships, childbearing etc. So it features an interesting exploration of the issues up to a certain point, but ultimately it ducks the glass ceiling.
Magda, who is a product of both worlds, makes mistakes along the way, resulting in friction with other women in the Renunciate Guild House, while Jaelle contends with the indifference and lack of understanding of the Terrans. This is worsened by her husband's chauvinism. Magda previously divorced Peter because of his controlling ways and jealousy of her competence, although annoyingly for this reader, she continues to entertain doubts that perhaps it was her "fault" the marriage failed because she didn't want a child with him. He is an absolute pig who tries to destroy Jaelle's independence while exhibiting a smarmy 1950s style head-patting attitude. At one point, he orders her to fetch his shoes then throws a tantrum in the bathroom because she didn't order his beard removing cream! The problem is compounded because Jaelle's laran - the psychic ability a lot of Darkovans have - strengthens when she becomes pregnant, so she is made aware of his obsession with getting a son and also with climbing the greasy pole of career progression in the Terran Zone, where he sometimes views her as a liability.
Jaelle constantly has insights into Peter's bullying and small minded attitude, partly through the incipient telepathy she is developing, but she makes excuses for him to such an extent that I started to lose sympathy with her. It isn't till late on in the story that she gains the insight that . But because of this underlying reason, Jaelle becomes rather a whiny character in this book, and Magda is much more interesting and engaging, as is the new character of Cholayna Ares, an Empire woman who is dark skinned and is used by Bradley to examine the question of prejudice on a planet where the population, derived from an Earth colony centuries before, is exclusively white.
Magda, who was told in the previous book by Lady Rohana that she also has laran, experiences issues with it too, and it eventually brings her into the closeness with Jaelle that she has apparently been fighting all along. Both are caught up in a problem concerning the safety of a Terran Empire man who goes off into the foothills just before a serious storm, without waiting for help from a native guide, but there are political ramifications because he is trying to find a Terran called Andrew who has gone missing but is now operating as a Darkovan man.
Although the interactions of the various characters are of interest, some aspects of the book haven't dated well. Even in 1983, when this was published, surely the practice of referring to a married woman by her husband's name was swiftly dying out, so it comes across as ludicrous that this is the practice among Terrans thousands of years into our future: despite their supposedly 'egalitarian' society as the book blurb would have it, they insist on calling Jaelle Mrs Peter Haldane. In fact, it is pretty obvious that the Terrans as well as the Darkovans are male dominated; they just have a more 'equal' gloss over it. Despite the fact that Magda is repeatedly stated to be highly competent - her work is studied on other planets! - she is barred from senior rank supposedly because the Darkovans wouldn't accept a woman in a high position. Considering that Terran society is different in so many other aspects - chiefly its reliance on advanced technology for everything - why shouldn't the Terrans put women into prominent positions to gradually break down this attitude among the native population? Especially as women are accepted in certain roles among the Darkovan nobility, such as Keepers of the Towers and as representatives of the family from which Lady Rohana stems. This is obviously a completely transparent excuse for unfair discrimination against women, especially since the Empire would rather put a grossly incompetent man in charge who his underlings have to constantly steer into not causing a diplomatic incident. This issue isn't really explored in the book which dwells more on the aspects of male-female personal relationships, childbearing etc. So it features an interesting exploration of the issues up to a certain point, but ultimately it ducks the glass ceiling.
October 25, 2013
I'm on something like my third or fourth reading of this for a reason.
It made me stop, think, and write things down. I started to keep a commonplace book shortly before this last reread; I didn't expect to fill six-odd pages with bits from Thendara House. I knew, when I first read it, that the Oath had blown my mind -- in it went. But as Magda and Jaelle began to question how the Oath applied to them and their situations, so too did I find myself reframing my worldview. In writing down their questions, I questioned myself.
I've always understood the value of names, for instance; I know the difference between $BIRTHNAME and this chosen alias, this name that honors my mother and, of all things, my favorite fictional detective. I know that $BIRTHNAME, while my mother found it pretty, gained all kinds of unpleasant associations for me, so I ditched it, and over time, taught my family to call me differently. So when Jaelle gets indignant over the constant references to "Mrs. Peter Haldane", a form of address that is archaic now but was more common during the writing of this novel, I sympathize with her. She is not Mrs. Anyone Anything. She is Jaelle n'ha Melora, the daughter of her mother. Nobody refers to Cholayna Ares as only an attachment to a man, do they? Even Magda gets to be Magdalen Lorne again after her divorce.
A name can be a chain, too.
On the Terran side, and in our society today, there's less of a distinction between marriage di catenas and freemating. I posit that marriage as we know it is the former with aspirations toward the latter, except in certain religious groups. To so many, marriage ought to be as permanent as sticking bracelets on your wrists and never removing them -- wait, we have rings for that! The removal of a wedding ring, habitually worn, is tantamount to a declaration of separation. "If you liked it, then you should've put a ring on it" -- if you want me, mark me. A ring is a catena is a submissive's collar: all signs of ownership. That two of these three bonds can be dissolved with relative ease does not change the attitudes of the participants.
Peter Haldane is never Jaelle's freemate. He is her husband under Terran law and Terran attitudes, with undertones of a traditional Darkovan upbringing in which marriage di catenas is the norm. His treatment of Jaelle and his mindset surrounding her speaks to that. He wants to champion her. Once she falls pregnant, she becomes mostly the incubator of his unborn son (never mind that Jaelle has good reason to know she carries a daughter). He goes so far as to change her citizenship for her. Who does that? I'm pretty sure my mother would skin my father if he tried to apply for American citizenship on her behalf.
So it's little wonder that the stated aim of the Comhi-Letzii runs like this: "For now, we accept the world as men have made it because there is no other world available, but our goal is not to make women as aggressive as men, but to survive -- merely to survive -- until a saner day comes. [...] Yes, you will learn to wear women's clothes by choice and not from necessity, and to speak as you wish, not to keep your words and your minds in bonds for fear of being thought unmannerly or unwomanly. But none of these is the most important thing. [...] Nothing you will learn is of the slightest importance, save for this: you will learn to change the way you think about yourselves, and about other women."
Which brings us to the aforementioned Magdalen Lorne, or Margali n'ha Ysabet. She is increasingly at home being Margali as her confinement to the Guild-house drags on. (I should note that one cannot equate "half a year" with "six months" in this case. I've seen the Darkovan year given as something like fifteen months, so half of that year is in fact closer to seven and a half months. Think a full year's study at Cambridge instead, but going straight through all three terms, no breaks included.) I concur with the reviewer who found that Margali had it easier than Jaelle. Margali can throw off her Magda-self with a simple "Hey, Cholayna, I quit!" and trot back to the Guild-house where she is not, any longer, any piece of any partner. Whoever she takes up with, she chooses freely and for whatever duration suits her. In the Guild-house, nobody's ambition is steamrolling her or trying to force her to be someone she's not; Jaelle actually calls Peter out on that. "We cannot let you be passed over in your ambitions."
Margali learns, among other things, that she doesn't have to prioritize one kind of relationship over another. Her friendships, her chosen sisterhood, this can stand in the face of romantic love and mean as much as it did before. Camilla, for example, never demands Margali's loyalty above her loyalty to Jaelle, or to the Guild. Reading further on in the trilogy, Margali's obligations to the people she meets at the end of the novel, the leronyn of the Forbidden Tower don't even seem to excite any kind of possessive streak in Camilla.
Regarding Camilla: I'm not a huge fan of the relationship between Camilla and Margali. I don't get it. That aspect of the narrative felt like the author shoving something down my throat. "You WILL like this character!" Was there some aspect of Camilla that MZB herself wanted to embrace? Or had? Because very little feels organic about the way that relationship comes about. We're told more than shown Margali's attraction. I get more of that ooh-this-person's-exciting feeling between Jaelle and Margali than Margali and Camilla. Argh, probably just my gut, but I'd love to hear from other people who've read this.
I'm not fond of the "all women want babies" trope, either, but I can appreciate the way it happened here. The novel at least acknowledges that women don't just flip their attitudes when they see the Darkovan equivalent of the blue plus sign. Jaelle aborts through sheer will (!) and she and Margali both wait until they've found the right circumstances. In their case, the right circumstances conveniently include a woman, Ellemir (isn't that a gorgeous name?!) who mothers any child she stumbles across and an established polyamorous household. Well, that's my ideal, too, minus the whole messy bearing live young part. I think if I had to bother, I'd bother if an Ellemir existed to let me go about my business once I gave birth.
This is without doubt my favorite in the trilogy. Tightly-constructed, very few "just go with it" moments, the implication that there's more plot to come without a cliffhanger -- it's a story in itself as well as the middle in a series. The thing is that if you liked the first two, I'd strongly advise against reading the third, in which it all kind of goes to hell. Take it more as a pair of great novels with a sequel tacked on. Now I've got to get my hands on the Forbidden Tower books. I think my TBR pile would stretch to the moon if you laid the books end-to-end . . .
It made me stop, think, and write things down. I started to keep a commonplace book shortly before this last reread; I didn't expect to fill six-odd pages with bits from Thendara House. I knew, when I first read it, that the Oath had blown my mind -- in it went. But as Magda and Jaelle began to question how the Oath applied to them and their situations, so too did I find myself reframing my worldview. In writing down their questions, I questioned myself.
I've always understood the value of names, for instance; I know the difference between $BIRTHNAME and this chosen alias, this name that honors my mother and, of all things, my favorite fictional detective. I know that $BIRTHNAME, while my mother found it pretty, gained all kinds of unpleasant associations for me, so I ditched it, and over time, taught my family to call me differently. So when Jaelle gets indignant over the constant references to "Mrs. Peter Haldane", a form of address that is archaic now but was more common during the writing of this novel, I sympathize with her. She is not Mrs. Anyone Anything. She is Jaelle n'ha Melora, the daughter of her mother. Nobody refers to Cholayna Ares as only an attachment to a man, do they? Even Magda gets to be Magdalen Lorne again after her divorce.
A name can be a chain, too.
On the Terran side, and in our society today, there's less of a distinction between marriage di catenas and freemating. I posit that marriage as we know it is the former with aspirations toward the latter, except in certain religious groups. To so many, marriage ought to be as permanent as sticking bracelets on your wrists and never removing them -- wait, we have rings for that! The removal of a wedding ring, habitually worn, is tantamount to a declaration of separation. "If you liked it, then you should've put a ring on it" -- if you want me, mark me. A ring is a catena is a submissive's collar: all signs of ownership. That two of these three bonds can be dissolved with relative ease does not change the attitudes of the participants.
Peter Haldane is never Jaelle's freemate. He is her husband under Terran law and Terran attitudes, with undertones of a traditional Darkovan upbringing in which marriage di catenas is the norm. His treatment of Jaelle and his mindset surrounding her speaks to that. He wants to champion her. Once she falls pregnant, she becomes mostly the incubator of his unborn son (never mind that Jaelle has good reason to know she carries a daughter). He goes so far as to change her citizenship for her. Who does that? I'm pretty sure my mother would skin my father if he tried to apply for American citizenship on her behalf.
So it's little wonder that the stated aim of the Comhi-Letzii runs like this: "For now, we accept the world as men have made it because there is no other world available, but our goal is not to make women as aggressive as men, but to survive -- merely to survive -- until a saner day comes. [...] Yes, you will learn to wear women's clothes by choice and not from necessity, and to speak as you wish, not to keep your words and your minds in bonds for fear of being thought unmannerly or unwomanly. But none of these is the most important thing. [...] Nothing you will learn is of the slightest importance, save for this: you will learn to change the way you think about yourselves, and about other women."
Which brings us to the aforementioned Magdalen Lorne, or Margali n'ha Ysabet. She is increasingly at home being Margali as her confinement to the Guild-house drags on. (I should note that one cannot equate "half a year" with "six months" in this case. I've seen the Darkovan year given as something like fifteen months, so half of that year is in fact closer to seven and a half months. Think a full year's study at Cambridge instead, but going straight through all three terms, no breaks included.) I concur with the reviewer who found that Margali had it easier than Jaelle. Margali can throw off her Magda-self with a simple "Hey, Cholayna, I quit!" and trot back to the Guild-house where she is not, any longer, any piece of any partner. Whoever she takes up with, she chooses freely and for whatever duration suits her. In the Guild-house, nobody's ambition is steamrolling her or trying to force her to be someone she's not; Jaelle actually calls Peter out on that. "We cannot let you be passed over in your ambitions."
Margali learns, among other things, that she doesn't have to prioritize one kind of relationship over another. Her friendships, her chosen sisterhood, this can stand in the face of romantic love and mean as much as it did before. Camilla, for example, never demands Margali's loyalty above her loyalty to Jaelle, or to the Guild. Reading further on in the trilogy, Margali's obligations to the people she meets at the end of the novel, the leronyn of the Forbidden Tower don't even seem to excite any kind of possessive streak in Camilla.
Regarding Camilla: I'm not a huge fan of the relationship between Camilla and Margali. I don't get it. That aspect of the narrative felt like the author shoving something down my throat. "You WILL like this character!" Was there some aspect of Camilla that MZB herself wanted to embrace? Or had? Because very little feels organic about the way that relationship comes about. We're told more than shown Margali's attraction. I get more of that ooh-this-person's-exciting feeling between Jaelle and Margali than Margali and Camilla. Argh, probably just my gut, but I'd love to hear from other people who've read this.
I'm not fond of the "all women want babies" trope, either, but I can appreciate the way it happened here. The novel at least acknowledges that women don't just flip their attitudes when they see the Darkovan equivalent of the blue plus sign. Jaelle aborts through sheer will (!) and she and Margali both wait until they've found the right circumstances. In their case, the right circumstances conveniently include a woman, Ellemir (isn't that a gorgeous name?!) who mothers any child she stumbles across and an established polyamorous household. Well, that's my ideal, too, minus the whole messy bearing live young part. I think if I had to bother, I'd bother if an Ellemir existed to let me go about my business once I gave birth.
This is without doubt my favorite in the trilogy. Tightly-constructed, very few "just go with it" moments, the implication that there's more plot to come without a cliffhanger -- it's a story in itself as well as the middle in a series. The thing is that if you liked the first two, I'd strongly advise against reading the third, in which it all kind of goes to hell. Take it more as a pair of great novels with a sequel tacked on. Now I've got to get my hands on the Forbidden Tower books. I think my TBR pile would stretch to the moon if you laid the books end-to-end . . .
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
May 17, 2015
It's been a long time since I read Thendara House. When I first came across it, I loved the idea of a book in which strong and diverse women struggled with the big questions of technology, gender, sexuality, loyalties, belonging and even racism/xenophobia in a science-fiction milieu. I'd also been a fan of MZB's classic retelling of the Arthurian legend The Mists of Avalon. On one level, I read Thendara House as a sweeping discovery epic, but also that classic struggle to discover where one truly belonged.
With fresh eyes, Thendara House is that rare book that asks thought-provoking questions and leaves the answers to the reader, and the questions especially around issues of gender, are still very much with us today. I've read criticism that accused it of being preachy, but I disagree with that assessment. There's no true "good/bad" simplistic dichotomy here. The Renunciates, despite offering another way for tradition bound Darkovan women to live, still struggled with just what it meant to be a Renunciate.
Even though this is Jaelle and Margali's story, I admit my favorite characters have always been Cholayna Ares, the Terran representative who was one of the rare women of color in the sci-fi/fantasy universe and the emmasca Camilla, who took a horrific tragedy and basically re-created herself in a way that seemed rather drastic, and again, leaves a reader with more questions. And no, contrary to less than charitable critics, the male characters are not all one dimensional caricatures (though Russ Montray really tried my patience).
With fresh eyes, Thendara House is that rare book that asks thought-provoking questions and leaves the answers to the reader, and the questions especially around issues of gender, are still very much with us today. I've read criticism that accused it of being preachy, but I disagree with that assessment. There's no true "good/bad" simplistic dichotomy here. The Renunciates, despite offering another way for tradition bound Darkovan women to live, still struggled with just what it meant to be a Renunciate.
Even though this is Jaelle and Margali's story, I admit my favorite characters have always been Cholayna Ares, the Terran representative who was one of the rare women of color in the sci-fi/fantasy universe and the emmasca Camilla, who took a horrific tragedy and basically re-created herself in a way that seemed rather drastic, and again, leaves a reader with more questions. And no, contrary to less than charitable critics, the male characters are not all one dimensional caricatures (though Russ Montray really tried my patience).
January 14, 2021
Di questa serie continuo a non amare la narrazione ambientata nei luoghi occupati dai terrestri (e i relativi personaggi) mentre la adoro quando si entra nei territori della società darkovana, che ormai è stata esplorata da più punti di vista. Qui la storia ruota attorno a due personagge, una darkovana e una terrestre, che si scambiano i ruoli andando l'una a vivere nel territorio dell'altra. Magda, terrestre nata su Darkover e sempre in bilico fra le due culture, va a vivere alla Loggia delle Amazzoni dove l'ambiente e i dibattitti femministi la fanno riflettere sulla sua identità. La darkovana Jaelle dovrà invece cercare di adattarsi a vivere e lavorare al campo dei terrestri. Anche se le protagoniste sono adulte, si tratta di storie di formazione dove entrambe dovranno fare i conti col passato per decidere la loro strada per il futuro.
July 15, 2017
Thendara House is the sequel to The Shattered Chain and picks up almost immediately after that book ends, with Magdalen Lorne/Margali going to the titular house to live her initiatory period as a Renunciate and Jaelle, having married Peter Haldane, moving to the Terran Zone to assist the Terrans with their understanding of Darkovan culture.
My interest in this book went up and down like a sine wave constantly over the course of reading it. It's heavily tied into The Forbidden Tower, which I read two years ago and was very fond of but didn't remember many of the specifics, so I was confused who this guy "Carr" was and why the Terrans were so interested in him. I was very annoyed with Peter's behavior early on, but I can't say that it's unrealistic. I've seen it mentioned in other reviews of this book that the Terran Empire should be more socially advanced, being a society thousands of years in the future, but there's the real world isn't a Civilization tech tree. The Empire having legal gender equality but favoring men in practice in something that persists in the real world even in places that have made extensive efforts to eradicate it, and it's not like this wasn't previously evident in The Shattered Chain.
But it did mean that there were a lot of unlikable characters. Peter reverts to being entirely career-obsessed when among the Terrans, assuming that Jaelle will become a good Terran wife (whatever that means) with the example of the other Terrans around her when she's away from the Renunciates. The Terran administrators are mostly incompetent or sinister. Alessandro Li, the special agent dispatched to Darkover to determine its future status, has his own desire to learn more about the planet and obviously doesn't care that much about Darkovan cultural survival. Coordinator Montray hates Darkover because it's cold and lit by a red giant, unlike one of the other planets he could have been posted on. The Renunciates came off more sympathetically, but they were only in half of the narrative.
And Jaelle and Magda, the main characters that Thendara House splits its viewpoints between, spend too much time rehashing the themes of The Shattered Chain for me to develop too much interest. What happens when one has conflicting oaths and has to fulfill both of them? What does it mean to belong to a particular culture, and when a bicultural person is rejected by one or both of their birth cultures, or consciously rejects one in favor of the other when the people of that culture don't see it that way, what do they do to cope with that? Can people change? I feel like the The Shattered Chain explored some of these ideas better, and I didn't need to see them repeated her.
And I admit, some of my disappointment is that once again, the plot turns on laran. I was really hoping that in a book about the Renunciates, laran wouldn't be used to solve the problems the main characters encounter, but by about halfway through the book both Magda and Jaelle's laran awakens and they spend the rest of its length having visions, reading people's minds to learn new facts, and otherwise doing all the things with laran that happen in Darkover books to prevent the protagonists from being inconveniently ignorant of other people's traumatic backstories. We couldn't have that.
That and, well, some of the discussion about how men as a group can't be trusted and women can only rely on each other is pretty terrible in light of Bradley's own behavior. (CW: child abuse)
If there had been fewer overlapping themes with The Shattered Chain, I think I would have liked Thendara House better. As it was, I feel like it didn't do a good enough job of distinguishing itself.
Previous Review: The Shattered Chain.
My interest in this book went up and down like a sine wave constantly over the course of reading it. It's heavily tied into The Forbidden Tower, which I read two years ago and was very fond of but didn't remember many of the specifics, so I was confused who this guy "Carr" was and why the Terrans were so interested in him. I was very annoyed with Peter's behavior early on, but I can't say that it's unrealistic. I've seen it mentioned in other reviews of this book that the Terran Empire should be more socially advanced, being a society thousands of years in the future, but there's the real world isn't a Civilization tech tree. The Empire having legal gender equality but favoring men in practice in something that persists in the real world even in places that have made extensive efforts to eradicate it, and it's not like this wasn't previously evident in The Shattered Chain.
But it did mean that there were a lot of unlikable characters. Peter reverts to being entirely career-obsessed when among the Terrans, assuming that Jaelle will become a good Terran wife (whatever that means) with the example of the other Terrans around her when she's away from the Renunciates. The Terran administrators are mostly incompetent or sinister. Alessandro Li, the special agent dispatched to Darkover to determine its future status, has his own desire to learn more about the planet and obviously doesn't care that much about Darkovan cultural survival. Coordinator Montray hates Darkover because it's cold and lit by a red giant, unlike one of the other planets he could have been posted on. The Renunciates came off more sympathetically, but they were only in half of the narrative.
And Jaelle and Magda, the main characters that Thendara House splits its viewpoints between, spend too much time rehashing the themes of The Shattered Chain for me to develop too much interest. What happens when one has conflicting oaths and has to fulfill both of them? What does it mean to belong to a particular culture, and when a bicultural person is rejected by one or both of their birth cultures, or consciously rejects one in favor of the other when the people of that culture don't see it that way, what do they do to cope with that? Can people change? I feel like the The Shattered Chain explored some of these ideas better, and I didn't need to see them repeated her.
And I admit, some of my disappointment is that once again, the plot turns on laran. I was really hoping that in a book about the Renunciates, laran wouldn't be used to solve the problems the main characters encounter, but by about halfway through the book both Magda and Jaelle's laran awakens and they spend the rest of its length having visions, reading people's minds to learn new facts, and otherwise doing all the things with laran that happen in Darkover books to prevent the protagonists from being inconveniently ignorant of other people's traumatic backstories. We couldn't have that.
That and, well, some of the discussion about how men as a group can't be trusted and women can only rely on each other is pretty terrible in light of Bradley's own behavior. (CW: child abuse)
If there had been fewer overlapping themes with The Shattered Chain, I think I would have liked Thendara House better. As it was, I feel like it didn't do a good enough job of distinguishing itself.
Previous Review: The Shattered Chain.
June 17, 2015
Of all the Darkover novels I've read so far, I absolutely did not like this one. Marion Zimmer Bradley goes on and on about the same issues with the two characters Jaelle and Magdalen Lorne. Even the repetition of the routine at the Terran HQ was too much for me. I believe half of this novel can be edited out. She really had trouble with moving on with the story telling. I was interested in it when they actually left the guild house in search of Aleki, and the leronis from the Forbidden Tower. At one point, I considered to not finish the novel and just move on to the next book in the saga.
October 5, 2009
A fantasy/sci fi book tied up with social issues facing women. Cultural shock, bigotry, and even gender issues complicate this story. The story subtly draws you in and makes you care about the characters. A very engaging tale and worth reading.
December 16, 2016
If it has one star I liked it a lot
If it has two stars I liked it a lot and would recommend it
If it has three stars I really really liked it a lot
If it has four stars I insist you read it
If it has five stars it was life changing
If it has two stars I liked it a lot and would recommend it
If it has three stars I really really liked it a lot
If it has four stars I insist you read it
If it has five stars it was life changing
Read
June 12, 2014Careful reading of The Forbidden Tower places the start of this book right in the middle of the former. The end is well after the characters from The Forbidden Tower have returned home to Armida. Overlap doesn't really begin until toward the end.
Jaelle has more excuse than Margali for being ethnocentric. True, she has been involved in several different societies on Darkover--but, after all, the diversity of Darkovan societies is based on a very small, ethnically uniform founder group. Interbreeding with nonhumans (especially chieri), and adaptations to telepathy and a harsh environment (actually several) have induced variations in language, household structure, etc. But even having lived in several different Darkovan cultures wouldn't really prepare Jaelle to adapt to what must be a VERY varied palette of cultures in the Terran Empire. Her failure to accept the normative Terran solution of an official overculture superimposed on local variations is perhaps understandable--but not less a failure for all that.
Margali's more open and painful adjustment is, in a way, one she was better prepared for by her upbringing. Not only was she brought up in a Darkovan milieu, her Empire training was specifically designed to help her through such transitions. Nevertheless, she has not much less trouble with it than a native Darkovan and a Terran put together. If she manages to make it through, and with a better integrated persona at the end, it's a tribute to her honesty, strength, and flexibility. Though her family makes only cameo appearances in her biography, there's quite a bit of evidence that they gave her a good start, and she made the most of it. Of course, it doesn't help either of them that they're in delayed threshold sickness, and neither of them really grew up in a telepathic culture.
The feminist elements naturally take the foreground here, but the clashes between Darkovan and Empire values are perhaps best illustrated by the failure of the Terran bureaucrats to understand the significance of Jaelle taking PERSONAL responsibility in a matter which the Terrans would consider one of professional responsibility only. Unless or until THAT issue is cleared up, there are bound to continue to be misunderstandings (and even clashes).
Some afterthoughts: It may be more of a reflection of the time the book was written that the culture of the Terran Empire is represented as being so implacably homophobic. The Terrans who go 'over the wall' are not particularly more likely to escape cultural misunderstandings in homosexual than in heterosexual relationships, especially if what they're looking for is not an affair, but a long-term relationship.
On a linguistic note, it's odd that the Darkovans have no word for 'technology' It looks to me as if they're making an invalid distinction here, which can perhaps be traced back to the original settlers. Of COURSE the Darkovans have technology, and not only in the 'matrix sciences'. They have felting mills, windmills, cheesemaking...all 'technology', though there's a current tendency to set aside certain highly mechanized technologies and describe them as 'technology' preeminently.
In preparing for the housing of Darkovan employees, one of the reforms the Terrans might want to consider is eliminating 'Married Personnel Housing'. This is discriminatory. People should live with the same degree of privacy and community when they're married as when they're unmarried. One of the main sources of stress in Jaelle and Peter's marriage is that they're expected to share quarters during ALL their off-duty time. It's not only 'single' people who need 'room(s) of [their] own'. Compare, for example, in Sayers' Busman's Honeymoon, in which even a honeymooning couple are given their own bedrooms. Granted, it's a large house, but still... If you don't even have your own closet space, NATURALLY you're going to get on each other's nerves, even without conflicts in cultural expectations.
The 'deprogramming' that's done in the Guild house shouldn't be necessary. Why are people 'programmed' in the FIRST place? Bradley often bucked and reared about people being broken to harness, but she seems to have accepted without protest the idea that ANYBODY just tamely accepts the harness, and is never chafed by it. It may be possible for some people to live their lives on autopilot. I couldn't say personally, because I'VE never been able to. But I suspect that very few people actually accept the idea of senseless customs. If they don't get answers when they first ask "Why?", most people may just stop asking...but I doubt it.
I didn't actually delineate yet that this volume is divided into three 'books': I CONFLICTING OATHS; II SUNDERING; and III OUTGROWTH. When books are thus subdivided, there's a question the writer has to resolve: should chapter #s restart in each 'book', or should there be a continuous chapter numbering throughout? In this case, the practice of restarting with 'Chapter I' in each 'book' is followed. It would help, by the way, if there was a simple notation (a Table of Contents, maybe?) showing on what page the second and third 'books' begin.
In terms of timing, this book begins right after the end of The Shattered Chain. Lorill Hastur is still the Regent. His son Danvan Hastur, (who is preeminent in many later books), is still a very young man...scarcely more than a child.
The Shattered Chain ends with an attempt by the Renunciates to establish a way to negotiate labor and other collaboration with the Terrans. The women who were involved with this were far more than just the exchanged fosterlings Jaelle and Margali. It was also not just Thendara House. Although the misplaced Russ Montray is probably the worst possible representative of the Terran Empire (Jaelle wonders why the advanced civilization of the Terrans would send such an incompetent to Darkover--but she doesn't really catch the insulting implication that it's because, though the Darkovans care very much about the Terrans, the Terrans really don't care much about Darkover), his staff are often rather better representatives of the Empire as a whole. This volume introduces people like the head of Intelligence Cholayna Ares, the Wade Montray whose descendants will have such an impact on later history, and the Imperial Representative Allessandro Li, who isn't taken seriously because he doesn't take Darkover seriously: but perhaps should be taken more seriously than he is, because his decisions will have grave impacts on Darkover.
This story also provides an opportunity to see people we already know from the inside as they would appear to strangers. Dom Ann'dra Carr is puzzling to Margali, at least partly because she hadn't been told about the loss of the Mapping And Exploration aircraft which carried Andrew Carr, along with others who died (Mattingly is commonly cited, but there were others). Margali has few interactions with Comyn (except Jaelle, of course), until the end of the book. But she does meet some of them, on the fire lines--which Jaelle did not get to, because she was pregnant at the time.
This volume also includes more development of characters from other books. Domna Rohana, it's revealed, is a major patron (matron? sponsor, anyway) of Thendara House (she supplied the thermal baths, it's said). During the course of this book, the long-frail Gabriel of Ardais dies, and the incredibly long-lived Kyril Ardais (who was about 25 at the time) becomes Warden of Ardais, despite Rohana's attempts to get him to accept a regency. Turns out Ardais would have been much better off if Kyril HAD realized his own incompetence. Later accounts describe his behavior as not only scandalous (he's considered dissolute and at least a potential rapist--which seems likely, given his behavior toward Jaelle), but also so unstable that he's later confined under house arrest, while his son takes over as Regent. Dyan Ardais himself is hardly a model of stability. About all that can be said for him is that he wasn't as bad as his father. This sort of thing always makes me wonder what ABOUT the women? Kyril's daughters are almost all fostered away. His son is sent to Nevarsin at least partly (it's implied) so that Dyan will not be raped by his own father. But what happened to Kyril's wife? How was she protected from Kyril's abuses?
And for that matter, it's not really clear what happens to Domna Rohana. It's implied that she goes back to Aillard: but not to contend for leadership of that Domain, apparently. She does try to get the determinedly apolitical Jaelle to contend for leadership of Aillard--with, it seems, effectively no success.
In later books, Rohana is even more sidelined. She's mentioned in the past tense mostly, even when it seems likely that she's still alive. I would have liked to have seen at least one main volume that told her own story. How DID she relate to Cleindori, for example? Cleindori was fostered at Alton (because of who her father was, it's argued). But, being nedestro, she's a likely candidate to sit in Council for Aillard, since her mother was a nedestro of Aillard. Was it never even mooted to her?
One thing I've noted in all these books: when people have hallucinations, especially under the influence of kireseth, those hallucinations tend to be both clairvoyant and precognitive. The people experiencing the hallucinations seem rarely to stop and try to analyze them afterward: but someone familiar with the series can often figure out what the hallucinations indicate. Some of the images in this story clearly have to do with Cleindori's fate, for example. In many ways what happened to Cleindori is ironically clearer in the hallucinations than in any of the published volumes from after Cleindori's death.
Valdir Alton is still a boy at this period: even after the formation of the Forbidden Tower, there was a period of about six years before Valdir took over. This volume lasts about six (Darkovan) months. Valdir would probably have been about 12 or 13 by the time the book ends.
Jaelle has more excuse than Margali for being ethnocentric. True, she has been involved in several different societies on Darkover--but, after all, the diversity of Darkovan societies is based on a very small, ethnically uniform founder group. Interbreeding with nonhumans (especially chieri), and adaptations to telepathy and a harsh environment (actually several) have induced variations in language, household structure, etc. But even having lived in several different Darkovan cultures wouldn't really prepare Jaelle to adapt to what must be a VERY varied palette of cultures in the Terran Empire. Her failure to accept the normative Terran solution of an official overculture superimposed on local variations is perhaps understandable--but not less a failure for all that.
Margali's more open and painful adjustment is, in a way, one she was better prepared for by her upbringing. Not only was she brought up in a Darkovan milieu, her Empire training was specifically designed to help her through such transitions. Nevertheless, she has not much less trouble with it than a native Darkovan and a Terran put together. If she manages to make it through, and with a better integrated persona at the end, it's a tribute to her honesty, strength, and flexibility. Though her family makes only cameo appearances in her biography, there's quite a bit of evidence that they gave her a good start, and she made the most of it. Of course, it doesn't help either of them that they're in delayed threshold sickness, and neither of them really grew up in a telepathic culture.
The feminist elements naturally take the foreground here, but the clashes between Darkovan and Empire values are perhaps best illustrated by the failure of the Terran bureaucrats to understand the significance of Jaelle taking PERSONAL responsibility in a matter which the Terrans would consider one of professional responsibility only. Unless or until THAT issue is cleared up, there are bound to continue to be misunderstandings (and even clashes).
Some afterthoughts: It may be more of a reflection of the time the book was written that the culture of the Terran Empire is represented as being so implacably homophobic. The Terrans who go 'over the wall' are not particularly more likely to escape cultural misunderstandings in homosexual than in heterosexual relationships, especially if what they're looking for is not an affair, but a long-term relationship.
On a linguistic note, it's odd that the Darkovans have no word for 'technology' It looks to me as if they're making an invalid distinction here, which can perhaps be traced back to the original settlers. Of COURSE the Darkovans have technology, and not only in the 'matrix sciences'. They have felting mills, windmills, cheesemaking...all 'technology', though there's a current tendency to set aside certain highly mechanized technologies and describe them as 'technology' preeminently.
In preparing for the housing of Darkovan employees, one of the reforms the Terrans might want to consider is eliminating 'Married Personnel Housing'. This is discriminatory. People should live with the same degree of privacy and community when they're married as when they're unmarried. One of the main sources of stress in Jaelle and Peter's marriage is that they're expected to share quarters during ALL their off-duty time. It's not only 'single' people who need 'room(s) of [their] own'. Compare, for example, in Sayers' Busman's Honeymoon, in which even a honeymooning couple are given their own bedrooms. Granted, it's a large house, but still... If you don't even have your own closet space, NATURALLY you're going to get on each other's nerves, even without conflicts in cultural expectations.
The 'deprogramming' that's done in the Guild house shouldn't be necessary. Why are people 'programmed' in the FIRST place? Bradley often bucked and reared about people being broken to harness, but she seems to have accepted without protest the idea that ANYBODY just tamely accepts the harness, and is never chafed by it. It may be possible for some people to live their lives on autopilot. I couldn't say personally, because I'VE never been able to. But I suspect that very few people actually accept the idea of senseless customs. If they don't get answers when they first ask "Why?", most people may just stop asking...but I doubt it.
I didn't actually delineate yet that this volume is divided into three 'books': I CONFLICTING OATHS; II SUNDERING; and III OUTGROWTH. When books are thus subdivided, there's a question the writer has to resolve: should chapter #s restart in each 'book', or should there be a continuous chapter numbering throughout? In this case, the practice of restarting with 'Chapter I' in each 'book' is followed. It would help, by the way, if there was a simple notation (a Table of Contents, maybe?) showing on what page the second and third 'books' begin.
In terms of timing, this book begins right after the end of The Shattered Chain. Lorill Hastur is still the Regent. His son Danvan Hastur, (who is preeminent in many later books), is still a very young man...scarcely more than a child.
The Shattered Chain ends with an attempt by the Renunciates to establish a way to negotiate labor and other collaboration with the Terrans. The women who were involved with this were far more than just the exchanged fosterlings Jaelle and Margali. It was also not just Thendara House. Although the misplaced Russ Montray is probably the worst possible representative of the Terran Empire (Jaelle wonders why the advanced civilization of the Terrans would send such an incompetent to Darkover--but she doesn't really catch the insulting implication that it's because, though the Darkovans care very much about the Terrans, the Terrans really don't care much about Darkover), his staff are often rather better representatives of the Empire as a whole. This volume introduces people like the head of Intelligence Cholayna Ares, the Wade Montray whose descendants will have such an impact on later history, and the Imperial Representative Allessandro Li, who isn't taken seriously because he doesn't take Darkover seriously: but perhaps should be taken more seriously than he is, because his decisions will have grave impacts on Darkover.
This story also provides an opportunity to see people we already know from the inside as they would appear to strangers. Dom Ann'dra Carr is puzzling to Margali, at least partly because she hadn't been told about the loss of the Mapping And Exploration aircraft which carried Andrew Carr, along with others who died (Mattingly is commonly cited, but there were others). Margali has few interactions with Comyn (except Jaelle, of course), until the end of the book. But she does meet some of them, on the fire lines--which Jaelle did not get to, because she was pregnant at the time.
This volume also includes more development of characters from other books. Domna Rohana, it's revealed, is a major patron (matron? sponsor, anyway) of Thendara House (she supplied the thermal baths, it's said). During the course of this book, the long-frail Gabriel of Ardais dies, and the incredibly long-lived Kyril Ardais (who was about 25 at the time) becomes Warden of Ardais, despite Rohana's attempts to get him to accept a regency. Turns out Ardais would have been much better off if Kyril HAD realized his own incompetence. Later accounts describe his behavior as not only scandalous (he's considered dissolute and at least a potential rapist--which seems likely, given his behavior toward Jaelle), but also so unstable that he's later confined under house arrest, while his son takes over as Regent. Dyan Ardais himself is hardly a model of stability. About all that can be said for him is that he wasn't as bad as his father. This sort of thing always makes me wonder what ABOUT the women? Kyril's daughters are almost all fostered away. His son is sent to Nevarsin at least partly (it's implied) so that Dyan will not be raped by his own father. But what happened to Kyril's wife? How was she protected from Kyril's abuses?
And for that matter, it's not really clear what happens to Domna Rohana. It's implied that she goes back to Aillard: but not to contend for leadership of that Domain, apparently. She does try to get the determinedly apolitical Jaelle to contend for leadership of Aillard--with, it seems, effectively no success.
In later books, Rohana is even more sidelined. She's mentioned in the past tense mostly, even when it seems likely that she's still alive. I would have liked to have seen at least one main volume that told her own story. How DID she relate to Cleindori, for example? Cleindori was fostered at Alton (because of who her father was, it's argued). But, being nedestro, she's a likely candidate to sit in Council for Aillard, since her mother was a nedestro of Aillard. Was it never even mooted to her?
One thing I've noted in all these books: when people have hallucinations, especially under the influence of kireseth, those hallucinations tend to be both clairvoyant and precognitive. The people experiencing the hallucinations seem rarely to stop and try to analyze them afterward: but someone familiar with the series can often figure out what the hallucinations indicate. Some of the images in this story clearly have to do with Cleindori's fate, for example. In many ways what happened to Cleindori is ironically clearer in the hallucinations than in any of the published volumes from after Cleindori's death.
Valdir Alton is still a boy at this period: even after the formation of the Forbidden Tower, there was a period of about six years before Valdir took over. This volume lasts about six (Darkovan) months. Valdir would probably have been about 12 or 13 by the time the book ends.
December 21, 2025
This story is the continuation of Magda and Jaelle’s story. Magda was Terran and an agent of the Empire but ended up taking the oath of the Renunciates and Jaelle, was her Oath Mother. They were very close friends, and their first story is in “The Shattered Chain”. But Magda has to fulfill her housebound time in the Guild House as part of being a new Renunciate. And Jaelle has a freemate marriage to Peter Haldine, who is Terran, and takes Magda’s place working at the Terran HQ.
What is so interesting is that both of them feel so out of water in their new environments. They both are on the path of self-discovery. Magda had never thought that she could love a woman and had a very hard time coming to terms with that. Jaelle, having been rescued from Dry Town where women are chained once they are old enough and are the property of men, finds it hard to be in the Terran world. She had a hard time understanding the culture where a woman take a man’s name and use men for protection. She feels that it is against her oath.
A lot happens to both women during their time in HQ and the Guild House. Jaelle becomes pregnant and really doesn’t want a baby, her husband, Peter is thrilled and wants to coddle her. She is not having that at all. And since she is pregnant, her aunt wants her daughter and her to take a seat on the Comyn Council. Peter wants to run the HQ Headquarters and feels that Jaelle has to be that supportive wife and do what he says, and he really wants a son. Magda keeps her Terran heritage a secret to the others at the Guild House for fear that the other women would hate her. Camilla, her Oath Sister, is in love with Magda but their relationship is one that Magda has so many mixed feelings about.
After the ambassador, Sando Li, who goes off without any Darkovan guide, Jaelle feels responsible and goes out to find him. Magda feels that Jaelle is hurt and needs to find her. When she hears that Jaelle has gone off on her own into the Kilghard Hills, she gets permission to go and find her. Part of the problems between these two women comes from both of them struggling with how they feel about each other and suddenly developing laran where they are experiencing each other's nightmares. They were not trained to deal with laran and now to prevent it from affecting those near them.
It is a great story of how one comes to understand themselves, how to love themselves and others and finally how to deal with what they think are their obligations. They end up finding the Forbidden Tower which looks like it will help them. I am hoping that there will be more of how that relationship develops.
What is so interesting is that both of them feel so out of water in their new environments. They both are on the path of self-discovery. Magda had never thought that she could love a woman and had a very hard time coming to terms with that. Jaelle, having been rescued from Dry Town where women are chained once they are old enough and are the property of men, finds it hard to be in the Terran world. She had a hard time understanding the culture where a woman take a man’s name and use men for protection. She feels that it is against her oath.
A lot happens to both women during their time in HQ and the Guild House. Jaelle becomes pregnant and really doesn’t want a baby, her husband, Peter is thrilled and wants to coddle her. She is not having that at all. And since she is pregnant, her aunt wants her daughter and her to take a seat on the Comyn Council. Peter wants to run the HQ Headquarters and feels that Jaelle has to be that supportive wife and do what he says, and he really wants a son. Magda keeps her Terran heritage a secret to the others at the Guild House for fear that the other women would hate her. Camilla, her Oath Sister, is in love with Magda but their relationship is one that Magda has so many mixed feelings about.
After the ambassador, Sando Li, who goes off without any Darkovan guide, Jaelle feels responsible and goes out to find him. Magda feels that Jaelle is hurt and needs to find her. When she hears that Jaelle has gone off on her own into the Kilghard Hills, she gets permission to go and find her. Part of the problems between these two women comes from both of them struggling with how they feel about each other and suddenly developing laran where they are experiencing each other's nightmares. They were not trained to deal with laran and now to prevent it from affecting those near them.
It is a great story of how one comes to understand themselves, how to love themselves and others and finally how to deal with what they think are their obligations. They end up finding the Forbidden Tower which looks like it will help them. I am hoping that there will be more of how that relationship develops.
April 30, 2020
Si la suite des aventures de Margalie la Terrienne, Jaelle la jeune Amazone fourvoyée dans un mariage avec un Terrien, Camilla et le reste des Renonçantes de Ténébreuse est tout aussi palpitant dans l'univers fantasy riche et mystérieux créé par Marion Bradley, nous y retrouvons aussi, par le biais des pensées des personnages, des réunions de la Guilde, les débats féministes les plus segmentant qui ont du avoir lieu dans les années 70-80 entre des femmes qui voulaient totalement se séparer des hommes, y compris sexuellement bien sûr, et certaines qui pensaient qu'une vie plus émancipée les garantiraient de la domination de leur partenaire masculin, des hétéro libérées en quelque sorte.
L'autrice elle-même semble en lutte avec ces idées, sans doute due à la misogynie intériorisée qui devait guider certaines réflexions psychologiques de personnages ne faisant pas sens (Jaelle s'emprisonnant dans un mariage abusif alors qu'elle est une Amazone depuis des années, Magda qui ne semble pas réaliser que sa relation avec son ex-mari n'était que compétition et manipulation psychologique, régression d'émancipation sans raison apparente, Camilla, lesbienne et torturée par les hommes dans son passé mais qui respectent des soldats, car elle a servi à leur côté, alors qu'elle sait que ce sont de violents soudards). Et puis les dernières pages sont tellement ennuyeuses en comparaison de ce que l'histoire pouvait apporter, avec le piège de la maternité se refermant sur nos deux héroïnes, en dépit du Serment et de l'amour qui les unit.
Je ne serai pas surprise que cette histoire ne partage de nombreux points communs avec la vie personnelle de Marion Bradley car aucune femme ne créant des personnages de femmes libres dans un univers qu'elle peut créer de toutes pièces ne peut s'empêcher de créer chacune d'entre elles avec une part d'elle-même. C'est pourquoi, en dépit de certains passages décevants et irritants pour une lesbienne féministe comme moi, j'accorde à cette saga un intérêt certain car je n'ai jamais lu de livre qui essayait de parler des femmes, du lesbianisme et de la vie entre femmes avec autant de passion.
L'autrice elle-même semble en lutte avec ces idées, sans doute due à la misogynie intériorisée qui devait guider certaines réflexions psychologiques de personnages ne faisant pas sens (Jaelle s'emprisonnant dans un mariage abusif alors qu'elle est une Amazone depuis des années, Magda qui ne semble pas réaliser que sa relation avec son ex-mari n'était que compétition et manipulation psychologique, régression d'émancipation sans raison apparente, Camilla, lesbienne et torturée par les hommes dans son passé mais qui respectent des soldats, car elle a servi à leur côté, alors qu'elle sait que ce sont de violents soudards). Et puis les dernières pages sont tellement ennuyeuses en comparaison de ce que l'histoire pouvait apporter, avec le piège de la maternité se refermant sur nos deux héroïnes, en dépit du Serment et de l'amour qui les unit.
Je ne serai pas surprise que cette histoire ne partage de nombreux points communs avec la vie personnelle de Marion Bradley car aucune femme ne créant des personnages de femmes libres dans un univers qu'elle peut créer de toutes pièces ne peut s'empêcher de créer chacune d'entre elles avec une part d'elle-même. C'est pourquoi, en dépit de certains passages décevants et irritants pour une lesbienne féministe comme moi, j'accorde à cette saga un intérêt certain car je n'ai jamais lu de livre qui essayait de parler des femmes, du lesbianisme et de la vie entre femmes avec autant de passion.
November 29, 2023
Disclaimer: I haven't read the others in this series.
It feels insubstantial, like every character just barely exists in the setting, and the paper settings could fly away on a stiff breeze. Maybe in earlier episodes the scale of these places is made clear, but in this story, each set piece is only a collection of spaces.
The romances and spurts of sexuality had potential. Magda kissing Keitha out of the blue was shocking and exciting, but that's more or less the end of passion for her.
She has a whole romance with Camilla that ends in bed where they do nothing at all except sleep. The next thing you know Magda runs out on Camilla to rescue her real love, Jaelle.
Except when she finds Jaelle, again nothing happens between them. She saves Jaelle's life, Jaelle miscarries her baby, and the story ends.
There’s enough journey to carry the story to the end, but the destinations all fell flat.
It feels insubstantial, like every character just barely exists in the setting, and the paper settings could fly away on a stiff breeze. Maybe in earlier episodes the scale of these places is made clear, but in this story, each set piece is only a collection of spaces.
The romances and spurts of sexuality had potential. Magda kissing Keitha out of the blue was shocking and exciting, but that's more or less the end of passion for her.
She has a whole romance with Camilla that ends in bed where they do nothing at all except sleep. The next thing you know Magda runs out on Camilla to rescue her real love, Jaelle.
Except when she finds Jaelle, again nothing happens between them. She saves Jaelle's life, Jaelle miscarries her baby, and the story ends.
There’s enough journey to carry the story to the end, but the destinations all fell flat.
November 20, 2025
Marion Zimmer Bradley, and her literary work, must be viewed through two, often competing, lenses.
First, she was writing stories with strong, relatable female protagonists battling male oppression at a time when very few other authors were prepared to do so. Many modern readers cannot conceive of a time when women were not allowed to have a credit card in their own name, which was but one of the policies Bradley was dealing with in her time. She was a feminist long before it became fashionable. She was one of a very few voices that spoke powerfully to young women about their own worth. Much of her writing, read today, can be seen as trite, obvious, or overbearing, but it must be remembered that it was none of those things at the time it was written. This was a woman who co-founded, and named, the Society for Creative Anachronism, who championed pagan rights when the mainstream saw them as satanic, and who encouraged and published unknown female authors like Mercedes Lackey. Viewed through this lens, Bradley was a progressive woman to be lauded, as she was, posthumously, when she received the World Fantasy Award for lifetime achievement in 2000.
Second, and hideously, Bradley was a pedophile, who molested her own children. She also procured and groomed children for her husband, Walter Breen, to assault. She admitted to knowing what he was doing to these children, but refused to stop helping him, much less report him or interfere with his desires. Her own daughter was her accuser, so we can be assured this is not a "he said, she said" situation. Viewed through this lens, then, her life and work become irredeemably tainted.
We are, perhaps, used to evaluating art for art's sake, commenting on Ender's Game, or Harry Potter, as though their authors' views, hateful as they are, should not condemn the output of their minds and hands. Perhaps we are right to do so; after all, these views are only beliefs and words, no matter how widespread a bully pulpit their famous speakers are able to command. However, when beliefs and words turn into actions, we must draw the line. Since 2014, when definitive proof finally came to light, I have found myself unable to recommend anything written by Marion Zimmer Bradley. I remain so appalled by her actions that I can never give more than one star to anything she has written, no matter how groundbreaking, how heartfelt, how astounding it may be. I urge everyone reading this to join me in boycotting her work forever.
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* (extremely rare) There is something very wrong with this book &/or this author; never again.
** (seldom) Has flaws, or I just couldn’t get into it; no thanks.
*** (usual) Not great, not bad; no need to return to it.
**** (often) Better than average; I’d read it again.
***** (rare) A superb example of the genre, &/or an incredible piece of art; I re-read it often.
First, she was writing stories with strong, relatable female protagonists battling male oppression at a time when very few other authors were prepared to do so. Many modern readers cannot conceive of a time when women were not allowed to have a credit card in their own name, which was but one of the policies Bradley was dealing with in her time. She was a feminist long before it became fashionable. She was one of a very few voices that spoke powerfully to young women about their own worth. Much of her writing, read today, can be seen as trite, obvious, or overbearing, but it must be remembered that it was none of those things at the time it was written. This was a woman who co-founded, and named, the Society for Creative Anachronism, who championed pagan rights when the mainstream saw them as satanic, and who encouraged and published unknown female authors like Mercedes Lackey. Viewed through this lens, Bradley was a progressive woman to be lauded, as she was, posthumously, when she received the World Fantasy Award for lifetime achievement in 2000.
Second, and hideously, Bradley was a pedophile, who molested her own children. She also procured and groomed children for her husband, Walter Breen, to assault. She admitted to knowing what he was doing to these children, but refused to stop helping him, much less report him or interfere with his desires. Her own daughter was her accuser, so we can be assured this is not a "he said, she said" situation. Viewed through this lens, then, her life and work become irredeemably tainted.
We are, perhaps, used to evaluating art for art's sake, commenting on Ender's Game, or Harry Potter, as though their authors' views, hateful as they are, should not condemn the output of their minds and hands. Perhaps we are right to do so; after all, these views are only beliefs and words, no matter how widespread a bully pulpit their famous speakers are able to command. However, when beliefs and words turn into actions, we must draw the line. Since 2014, when definitive proof finally came to light, I have found myself unable to recommend anything written by Marion Zimmer Bradley. I remain so appalled by her actions that I can never give more than one star to anything she has written, no matter how groundbreaking, how heartfelt, how astounding it may be. I urge everyone reading this to join me in boycotting her work forever.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* (extremely rare) There is something very wrong with this book &/or this author; never again.
** (seldom) Has flaws, or I just couldn’t get into it; no thanks.
*** (usual) Not great, not bad; no need to return to it.
**** (often) Better than average; I’d read it again.
***** (rare) A superb example of the genre, &/or an incredible piece of art; I re-read it often.
May 18, 2020
Leia o primeiro capitulo e o epilogo, o miolo é completamente dispensável.
Não pretendo ler mais nada dessa série.
Não pretendo ler mais nada dessa série.
January 19, 2019
I really love her books, and it was interesting to revisit one in 2019. THe book was originally published in 1983 and it shows. It became kind of an interesting artificat because so many of the things being held controversial (lgbt, women men binary) would not be written the same way today - the Terran zone is presented as being more equal between the two and only two genders although women still have to wear short dresses and tights as distinguished from the men in trousers. I feel like I want people to read it who weren't alive when it was published to say "This is a 'futuristic' work - this is how we grew up! We have come a long way."
December 11, 2016
mmmh. So, we have two different cultural background for our heroines, Jaelle, a Renunciate who works with Earth people after her marriage with a Terran, Peter Haldane and Margali (Magda) a Terran woman, born on Darkover and grew up as Terran who goes to live in a Renunciate house.
Both of women will have their trouble trying to accomodate different cultures but Margali is the most lucky, in my opinion, because she's more free to express hersel. Jaelle will face a lot of problems and in the end, the struggling between her Darkovan ancestry and her need of freedom will leave her lacerated.
Both of women will have their trouble trying to accomodate different cultures but Margali is the most lucky, in my opinion, because she's more free to express hersel. Jaelle will face a lot of problems and in the end, the struggling between her Darkovan ancestry and her need of freedom will leave her lacerated.
February 26, 2019
8/10. Media de los 18 libros leídos de la autora : 8/10
En su día estaba colgadito de su saga de Darkover (Fantasía). Hace no mucho re-leí parte de uno de estos libros y me resultó simplón, pero como estoy manteniendo la nota que les puse en su día, pues queda la autora con una media fantástica de "8".
La saga artúrica Las nieblas de Avalon tb está muy bien, es una novelación distinta pero bien escrita. Lo de siempre pero con otro toque, vamos. Y sus incursiones en CF tampoco defraudan.
En su día estaba colgadito de su saga de Darkover (Fantasía). Hace no mucho re-leí parte de uno de estos libros y me resultó simplón, pero como estoy manteniendo la nota que les puse en su día, pues queda la autora con una media fantástica de "8".
La saga artúrica Las nieblas de Avalon tb está muy bien, es una novelación distinta pero bien escrita. Lo de siempre pero con otro toque, vamos. Y sus incursiones en CF tampoco defraudan.
November 21, 2017
As a new Renunciate, Magda agrees to her housebound term while Jaelle takes her place in the Terran Spaceport. Culture shock goes both ways, and it's interesting to see the struggles each has, and what each woman misses most, but tension increases with local misunderstandings and an inability to know who she is, until something must give.
July 19, 2020
The second wave gender dynamics and internalized homophobia did not age well, and my 1983 original paperback rather desperately needed a copy-editor (typos, small persistent textual inconsistencies), but the characterization is strong and i found this a fast-moving story that is hard to put down. The plot relies somewhat on the reader having already read The Forbidden Tower.
June 14, 2021
I libri sulle libere amazzoni di Darkover sono i più interessanti e questo tra tutti approfondisce maggiormente le relazioni tutte al femminile (in un pianete prettamente patriarcale) con sprazzi di "femminismo". I personaggi sono descritti con più profondità e sfaccettature e il libro è tra quelli che ho maggiormente apprezzato.
August 20, 2023
I first read this many years ago and this week, in a reading slump, tried it on Audible. 21 hours in three days.
My only nit with the Audible presentation is the reader's pronunciation of Jaelle. Iirc from a glossary in one book or another, it's supposed to be SHY uh lay, not jay ELL (thus the nickname Shaya)
My only nit with the Audible presentation is the reader's pronunciation of Jaelle. Iirc from a glossary in one book or another, it's supposed to be SHY uh lay, not jay ELL (thus the nickname Shaya)
September 2, 2021
So nice to come back to Darkover after such a long time and so nice to see this available in audio! All of the self-doubt and the macho attitudes are annoying, of course it's my buttons being pushed, not a reflection on Ms Bradley's skill.
February 24, 2022
pensavo peggio visto che il primo libro sulle Libere Amazzoni, su Margali, Jaelle e Peter era a malapena leggibile e quello sulla torre proibita, Andrew Carr, Damon Ridenov, Callista e la sua gemella Ellemir era proprio spazzatura inleggibile
July 6, 2024
Not as entertaining as the other Darkover books I've read. Seems this was more haphazard and thrown together from prior stories and notes. Certainly points where I could not follow what was happening as new characters suddenly appeared with no description of where they came from.
Read
June 6, 2025Can't lie. I did mostly enjoy this. Though it is too long. A lot of the late middle sequences could have been cut - nothing happens and characters feel repetitive. Very conversant with the feminist debates of the time. I can see why it was well liked back then.
Read
October 23, 2025A romantic fantasy set in a futuristic society divided by two cultures, one male dominated and one egalitarian, where the roles of male and female, love and marriage and justice and injustice are brought sharply into focus. From the author of CASTLE TERROR.
May 4, 2017
Research read, and OMG very relevant in this era of Trump. I found the ongoing conflicts between Peter and Magda, Peter and Jaelle to be far too close to reality in these days.
September 4, 2017
More nostalgia reading.
August 25, 2018
This didn't grab me so I never finished it
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