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Real Sex: The Naked Truth about Chastity
Sex Splashed across magazine covers, billboards, and computer screens-sex is casual, aggressive, and absolutely everywhere. And everybody's doing it, right? In Real Sex, heralded young author Lauren F. Winner speaks candidly to Christians about the difficulty—and the importance—of sexual chastity. With honesty and wit, she talks about her struggle to live a celibate life. Never dodging tough terms like "confession" and "sin," Winner grounds her discussion of chastity first and foremost in Scripture. She confronts cultural lies about sex and challenges how we talk about sex in church. Her biblically grounded observations and suggestions will be especially valuable to unmarried Christians struggling with the sexual mania of today's culture. Real Sex is essential reading for Christians grappling with chastity and a valuable tool for pastors.
184 pages, Paperback
First published April 1, 2005
76 people are currently reading
1775 people want to read
About the author
Lauren F. Winner
45 books329 followersLauren F. Winner is the author of numerous books, including Girl Meets God and Mudhouse Sabbath. Her study A Cheerful & Comfortable Faith: Anglican Religious Practice in the Elite Households of Eighteenth-Century Virginia was published in the fall of 2010 by Yale University Press. She has appeared on PBS’s Religion & Ethics Newsweekly and has written for The New York Times Book Review, The Washington Post Book World, Publishers Weekly, Books and Culture, and Christianity Today. Winner has degrees from Duke, Columbia, and Cambridge universities, and holds a Ph.D. in history. The former book editor for Beliefnet, Lauren teaches at Duke Divinity School, and lives in Durham, North Carolina. Lauren travels extensively to lecture and teach. During the academic year of 2007-2008, she was a visiting fellow at the Center for the Study of Religion at Princeton University, and during the academic year of 2010-2011, she was a visiting fellow at the Institute of Sacred Music at Yale University. When she’s home, you can usually find her curled up, on her couch or screen porch, with a good novel.
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November 11, 2014
In Lauren Winner’s book Real Sex, she claims that chastity is a discipline. The problem?
CHASTITY IS NOT A DISCIPLINE
This idea is self-evidently wrong, as are many of the other things she writes about Christianity, the Bible and sex. While the language she uses to talk about sex is very academic, what she writes is just not logically or textually supported.
At the outset the author seems set to challenge the American evangelical church’s entire “True Love Waits” approach to single sexuality. She is going to be bold and different and find out what the Bible really says! Actually, the relevant texts are given a very thin gloss and then she winds up saying pretty much the same things the church has been saying for years without any meaningful critique.
Let’s drill into her contention that chastity is a spiritual discipline a little more, because it is revealing.
Prayer is a discipline. You learn to pray in small doses. You start simply with mealtime prayers and bedtime prayers. You learn different forms of prayer. You study how people prayed in the Bible. You learn how to meditate on a passage of scripture. Over time you might work up to fasting and prayer or all night prayer vigils.
But crucially, you don’t start with these things. You work up to them, gradually.
Chastity, the way single Christians are asked to practice it by the church, does not work like that.
What Lauren Winner and the mainstream church advocates is not “sex is a sometimes thing” but total abstinence outside of marriage. She and the church are asking people just learning to walk to run a marathon.
It is widely known that in America people are getting married later and later. This was true when Winner’s book was first published in 2006, and after the long recession and the dire economic straits of an entire generation it is doubly true. The average age of marriage has climbed past thirty and is rapidly heading towards forty. For some ethnicities and classes, studies show that marriage is increasingly unlikely to occur at all.
This is sobering, all by itself, but consider its implications for a young Christian trying to stay chaste. Assuming that that person, without any restrictions, would start having sex around the age of 15 and that they do not get married until the age of 35, they are facing twenty years of trying for total abstinence.
And we’re shocked that most people fail?
Two decades of abstinence sounds less like chastity and more like a vow of celibacy. Does the teen girl who signs a purity pledge know that that is essentially what she is making? And if not, when she realizes it, will she stick to her pledge? That seems pretty unlikely.
Winner refers to the writings of the Apostle Paul a lot when she is doubling down on the church’s party line. This is important because the Old Testament is packed with polygamy, adultery and premarital sex, so it’s difficult to base an argument there. Winner devotes a few pages to attempting to show that Paul specifically forbade premarital sex. Her argument is not especially thorough or convincing, though. It is clear that Winner thinks that this is basically self-evident. Once again, it is not.
In Paul’s day, a person’s window for having premarital sex would have been quite brief. Women especially could expect to be married off in their mid teens. Men might hold off until the ripe old age of their early twenties, but that late by the standards of the time. The fact is that in Paul’s world, right around the time people reached sexual maturity they were ‘given in marriage’ by their parents. The opportunities for sex before marriage were rare, and would not have been a great concern for Paul or anyone else in his day.
Paul’s concern wasn’t with Christians engaging in pre-marital sex, but extra-marital sex or post-marital sex (as in the case where a spouse died young and their partner was a widow or widower for a time). There was also the case of ‘people like Paul’ who were intentionally celibate. Paul’s instructions in 1 Corinthians 7 are specific - don’t make a vow of celibacy if you can’t keep it; if you are widowed and don’t think you can stay chaste, get married. Paul’s instructions are narrowly tailored, and widening them will take some convincing arguments.
Again, when Paul was writing people married young. The idea that someone, especially a woman, would wait until her thirties or forties until her first marriage would have been virtually inconceivable to Paul.
Are we to believe that Paul was offhandedly instructing people who ‘burn with passion’, who are not ‘called to singleness’, to abstain from sex for one or two decades or more?
In Matthew 23:4, Jesus says of the Pharisees, "They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger.”
I wonder: when the church asks single Christians for decades of abstinence is it placing a heavy burden on them and doing nothing to help? Have we become the Pharisees of sexuality?
I don’t have answers, nor do I suggest that single Christians should throw caution to the wind and start having premarital sex with everyone they meet. But I feel that there is a strong case that Christians need to reexamine what it means to be a single, sexual being in a time where marriage may not take place until mid life. For all her posturing that her approach will be different or ‘real’, the author is disappointingly uncritical of the standard narrative.
CHASTITY IS NOT A DISCIPLINE
This idea is self-evidently wrong, as are many of the other things she writes about Christianity, the Bible and sex. While the language she uses to talk about sex is very academic, what she writes is just not logically or textually supported.
At the outset the author seems set to challenge the American evangelical church’s entire “True Love Waits” approach to single sexuality. She is going to be bold and different and find out what the Bible really says! Actually, the relevant texts are given a very thin gloss and then she winds up saying pretty much the same things the church has been saying for years without any meaningful critique.
Let’s drill into her contention that chastity is a spiritual discipline a little more, because it is revealing.
Prayer is a discipline. You learn to pray in small doses. You start simply with mealtime prayers and bedtime prayers. You learn different forms of prayer. You study how people prayed in the Bible. You learn how to meditate on a passage of scripture. Over time you might work up to fasting and prayer or all night prayer vigils.
But crucially, you don’t start with these things. You work up to them, gradually.
Chastity, the way single Christians are asked to practice it by the church, does not work like that.
What Lauren Winner and the mainstream church advocates is not “sex is a sometimes thing” but total abstinence outside of marriage. She and the church are asking people just learning to walk to run a marathon.
It is widely known that in America people are getting married later and later. This was true when Winner’s book was first published in 2006, and after the long recession and the dire economic straits of an entire generation it is doubly true. The average age of marriage has climbed past thirty and is rapidly heading towards forty. For some ethnicities and classes, studies show that marriage is increasingly unlikely to occur at all.
This is sobering, all by itself, but consider its implications for a young Christian trying to stay chaste. Assuming that that person, without any restrictions, would start having sex around the age of 15 and that they do not get married until the age of 35, they are facing twenty years of trying for total abstinence.
And we’re shocked that most people fail?
Two decades of abstinence sounds less like chastity and more like a vow of celibacy. Does the teen girl who signs a purity pledge know that that is essentially what she is making? And if not, when she realizes it, will she stick to her pledge? That seems pretty unlikely.
Winner refers to the writings of the Apostle Paul a lot when she is doubling down on the church’s party line. This is important because the Old Testament is packed with polygamy, adultery and premarital sex, so it’s difficult to base an argument there. Winner devotes a few pages to attempting to show that Paul specifically forbade premarital sex. Her argument is not especially thorough or convincing, though. It is clear that Winner thinks that this is basically self-evident. Once again, it is not.
In Paul’s day, a person’s window for having premarital sex would have been quite brief. Women especially could expect to be married off in their mid teens. Men might hold off until the ripe old age of their early twenties, but that late by the standards of the time. The fact is that in Paul’s world, right around the time people reached sexual maturity they were ‘given in marriage’ by their parents. The opportunities for sex before marriage were rare, and would not have been a great concern for Paul or anyone else in his day.
Paul’s concern wasn’t with Christians engaging in pre-marital sex, but extra-marital sex or post-marital sex (as in the case where a spouse died young and their partner was a widow or widower for a time). There was also the case of ‘people like Paul’ who were intentionally celibate. Paul’s instructions in 1 Corinthians 7 are specific - don’t make a vow of celibacy if you can’t keep it; if you are widowed and don’t think you can stay chaste, get married. Paul’s instructions are narrowly tailored, and widening them will take some convincing arguments.
Again, when Paul was writing people married young. The idea that someone, especially a woman, would wait until her thirties or forties until her first marriage would have been virtually inconceivable to Paul.
Are we to believe that Paul was offhandedly instructing people who ‘burn with passion’, who are not ‘called to singleness’, to abstain from sex for one or two decades or more?
In Matthew 23:4, Jesus says of the Pharisees, "They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger.”
I wonder: when the church asks single Christians for decades of abstinence is it placing a heavy burden on them and doing nothing to help? Have we become the Pharisees of sexuality?
I don’t have answers, nor do I suggest that single Christians should throw caution to the wind and start having premarital sex with everyone they meet. But I feel that there is a strong case that Christians need to reexamine what it means to be a single, sexual being in a time where marriage may not take place until mid life. For all her posturing that her approach will be different or ‘real’, the author is disappointingly uncritical of the standard narrative.
May 18, 2007
Perhaps the most embarassing book I've ever pulled out on the subway or in an audition line...the cover not only has a large white flower but the blaring "real sex" title with only the tiny subtitle that makes it all okay. That being said, it's a great read and one I would recommend for anyone in the church. I had the delight of meeting Lauren Winner and attending a women's retreat where she spoke on this topic among others. She is a smart, smart woman and I especially love reading her books now that I can hear the funny way she says "rather" and picture her vintage wing-tip glasses. The whole premise of the book is that sex is an issue that is central to the life of the church and that it should be done (or not done) in the context of community. One point that really had me thinking was the church's present idolatry of marriage and how we are divided into "singles" and marrieds" when our real identity should just be as Christian brothers and sisters.
Read the book but maybe spend 5 minutes to put a cover on it if you don't want disapproving stares on the subway.
Read the book but maybe spend 5 minutes to put a cover on it if you don't want disapproving stares on the subway.
September 17, 2007
Lauren Winner started writing this book before she was engaged but by the time she finished it, she was married. She also confesses that she did have premarital sex with several boyfriends. Her background (and an adult conversion to Christianity from Judaism) lends itself tremendously to keeping this book from being just another preachy text on sex aimed at single people. I particularly enjoyed the author's treatment of the subject: she doesn't take the hard core black & white, right & wrong stance that I've heard from so many churches and other Christians. Rather, she approaches an understanding of sex and chastity and what is ok or not from the standpoint of, "does this experience teach me something true or false about God." I particularly appreciated her thoughts on what married people and single people have to teach the church, and also what she had to say about the falsehoods that pornography and masturbation teach - yet at the same time she gave me the impression that we were in a dialogue and travelling a similar journey; I left this book feeling thoughful and hopeful and not condemned.
February 5, 2012
I appreciate the Hauerwasian influence that frames sex as an semi-public act done in community, but Hauerwas has a winsome personality and can sell that vision as exciting. Winner, on the other hand, is lecturing me about dressing up for church ("It's God.. that the people are coming for, and helping them dress appropriately may be part of preparing them to meet Him") and claiming that frat houses have swapped porn for the Victoria's Secret catalog ("a rag that actually leaves quite little a secret"). How weirdly out of touch, how weirdly reminiscent of Peggy Noonan. If you've got the itch to have some sex, Winner advises you to go ahead and get married ASAP, which sounds like the recipe for a nightmare marriage as well as a shamefully legalistic construction of Christian sexual ethics. Her personality on the page does not make me rush to follow her, and her vision of a richer life feels theoretical and bloodless.
Winner wants to work up a statement that is both realistic about human nature and faithful to Christian tradition, but she winds up with predictable preoccupations. She says much of the same stuff you'd hear from a Southern Baptist youth pastor (don't touch your boyfriend in any way that you wouldn't do in a public space!) even as she realizes that it needs to be oriented toward a higher goal than personal piety.
My guess is that this book will be satisfying for ex-youth group kids who walk the straight and narrow with ease. To them, it might feel like encouragement. If you need bold engagement with the trickier aspects of sexual ethics, however, skip this one.
Winner wants to work up a statement that is both realistic about human nature and faithful to Christian tradition, but she winds up with predictable preoccupations. She says much of the same stuff you'd hear from a Southern Baptist youth pastor (don't touch your boyfriend in any way that you wouldn't do in a public space!) even as she realizes that it needs to be oriented toward a higher goal than personal piety.
My guess is that this book will be satisfying for ex-youth group kids who walk the straight and narrow with ease. To them, it might feel like encouragement. If you need bold engagement with the trickier aspects of sexual ethics, however, skip this one.
March 30, 2012
I've wanted to write a review of this book for a while, but I've struggled with what to say about it. Before I read it, I had heard this book strongly criticized by several youth ministers in my family and acquaintance. Their criticisms are valid. This book does not present a hardline position on anything other than the fact that sex is acceptable only within the confines of marriage. It takes a much less hardline stance on topics such as masturbation, or the use of birth control inside or outside marriage. Although it discusses these topics and shows how a spirit of chastity would approach these topics, it leaves it to the reader to decide. That makes this book frankly unteachable for many youth pastors, because in most churches taking anything other than a hardline stance with high school or below is unacceptable, even if the minister agrees, because parents would not be okay with it.
When I personally read the book, though, I thought simply because it was willing to discuss this issues and the fact that answers are hard and confusing on some topics related to sex, it was a much more honest and therefore also impacting book than what was available to me as a Christian teenager. Winner really gets at the reasons why chastity is important throughout our lives as Christians (not just before marriage; she also discusses lifelong chastity, widowhood, and moments of chastity within marriage) and makes it clear what a spirit of chastity is like. Because of this, I thinks she does a much better job of explaining why sexual matters are important in Christianity, and equips readers with the toolkit to make their own decisions regarding the aforementioned sexual activities that aren't overtly discussed in the Bible. She also paints an excellent picture of where sexuality fits within the church as a whole, in a transformative process, and not just how sex relates to young people. It also helps, of course, that it is written in Lauren Winner's characteristic intelligent and winning writing style.
As a married, albeit young (23), Christian woman, I still found this book insightful and it has helped me to clarify my position on many sexual matters, simply because it is moreso a book of theology, even if it is very easy to understand. That said, I do wish this book had been around when I was younger to help me understand why the church said what it did back when I needed these answers to these questions more fervently. While I understand the reticence of youth pastors, I think parents of mature teens could certainly recommend this book, particularly if they'd like to discuss it with them. As for teens going off to college of any type, I think it is a book that is of utmost importance in navigating college cultures. I will likely give it away as a going-to-college gift in the future. Still, I think anyone of any age who still struggles to understand the church's basic stance on sexuality would do well to read this.
When I personally read the book, though, I thought simply because it was willing to discuss this issues and the fact that answers are hard and confusing on some topics related to sex, it was a much more honest and therefore also impacting book than what was available to me as a Christian teenager. Winner really gets at the reasons why chastity is important throughout our lives as Christians (not just before marriage; she also discusses lifelong chastity, widowhood, and moments of chastity within marriage) and makes it clear what a spirit of chastity is like. Because of this, I thinks she does a much better job of explaining why sexual matters are important in Christianity, and equips readers with the toolkit to make their own decisions regarding the aforementioned sexual activities that aren't overtly discussed in the Bible. She also paints an excellent picture of where sexuality fits within the church as a whole, in a transformative process, and not just how sex relates to young people. It also helps, of course, that it is written in Lauren Winner's characteristic intelligent and winning writing style.
As a married, albeit young (23), Christian woman, I still found this book insightful and it has helped me to clarify my position on many sexual matters, simply because it is moreso a book of theology, even if it is very easy to understand. That said, I do wish this book had been around when I was younger to help me understand why the church said what it did back when I needed these answers to these questions more fervently. While I understand the reticence of youth pastors, I think parents of mature teens could certainly recommend this book, particularly if they'd like to discuss it with them. As for teens going off to college of any type, I think it is a book that is of utmost importance in navigating college cultures. I will likely give it away as a going-to-college gift in the future. Still, I think anyone of any age who still struggles to understand the church's basic stance on sexuality would do well to read this.
October 29, 2009
I hadn’t even finished the preface to Real Sex before I breathed a sigh of relief and thanksgiving that someone had finally written this book. Real Sex: The Naked Truth About Chastity is a book that has been needed for quite some time, and Lauren Winner was up to the task. I read and thoroughly enjoyed her first two books (Girl Meets God and Mudhouse Sabbath) and am glad that she used her gifts at bringing the theological, historical, sociological and personal together in a compelling way on the subject of chastity.
Books about chastity have been written before. I was an older teenager when I Kissed Dating Goodbye hit the market in the midst of the True Love Waits craze. Both the book and movement served a purpose in their time and were particularly encouraging to teens, but failed at addressing the issues of singleness and chastity beyond the high school years. Real Sex is an intelligent and honest look beyond the surface at the issues of chastity. Winner comes to the conclusions that Scripture clearly provides, but with thoughtfulness, evidence, anecdotes and research that go beyond the proof-texting that has plagued the genre.
Real Sex is brutally honest about sexuality. Winner speaks about the communal aspect of sex, how it goes beyond the two involved partners and why the church should be in the business of talking about sex. As many of my friends are still single and others are in serious relationships, I was particularly convicted about my responsibility to talk frankly about sex with them, as awkward as it feels in our culture. I loved the section of the book where Winner exposes lies that the world and the church tell about sex. Lies such as the falsehood that sex can be seperated from procreation, that premarital sex will always make you feel bad, and that lingering gnostic belief that the sexual desires our bodies feel ae wrong. She also addresses at length how chastity is a spiritual discipline that all Christians are called to practice.
Though the book is well grounded theologically and philosophically, Winner weaves in pastoral and personal narratives that show her understanding of the struggles readers face and provides for areas of application. She tackles the proverbial question Christians ask about physical intimacy (”how far is too far?”) in the most satisfactory way I have encountered. She also addresses hot button issues such as lifelong celibacy, modesty, p0rn0gr4phy* and m4sturbat1on.
I was most surprised and encouraged by how much of Real Sex was relevant to me personally as a married woman. Real sex is sex within the union of marriage, and Winner is right to follow the example of the Apostle Paul in framing her thoughts on chastity around this central notion. She argues that real sex is the sex that happens in the midst of the routines and rhythms of everyday life, when dinner is cooking, bills are being paid or while you can hear the footsteps of your children going to the bathroom. Real sex is possible because of the shared life we have together, the way that we laugh and talk and cry and debate.
Real Sex by Lauren Winner is a must read for college students and singles in their twenties and beyond, but also encouraging and profitable to those who are thinking about the purpose of sex within marriage or about issues regarding chastity as parents. The book is 175 pages, an appropriate length to get readers thinking without trying to be a systematic ethic of chastity (which have been written before.) The bibliography and notes also provide a good backbone for further reading on the material Winner addresses for those who are interested in pursuing these issues further. I can’t recommend Real Sex for young teens, but for those with some exposure to the issues of sexuality, I can’t think of another book I’d recommend more highly.
Books about chastity have been written before. I was an older teenager when I Kissed Dating Goodbye hit the market in the midst of the True Love Waits craze. Both the book and movement served a purpose in their time and were particularly encouraging to teens, but failed at addressing the issues of singleness and chastity beyond the high school years. Real Sex is an intelligent and honest look beyond the surface at the issues of chastity. Winner comes to the conclusions that Scripture clearly provides, but with thoughtfulness, evidence, anecdotes and research that go beyond the proof-texting that has plagued the genre.
Real Sex is brutally honest about sexuality. Winner speaks about the communal aspect of sex, how it goes beyond the two involved partners and why the church should be in the business of talking about sex. As many of my friends are still single and others are in serious relationships, I was particularly convicted about my responsibility to talk frankly about sex with them, as awkward as it feels in our culture. I loved the section of the book where Winner exposes lies that the world and the church tell about sex. Lies such as the falsehood that sex can be seperated from procreation, that premarital sex will always make you feel bad, and that lingering gnostic belief that the sexual desires our bodies feel ae wrong. She also addresses at length how chastity is a spiritual discipline that all Christians are called to practice.
Though the book is well grounded theologically and philosophically, Winner weaves in pastoral and personal narratives that show her understanding of the struggles readers face and provides for areas of application. She tackles the proverbial question Christians ask about physical intimacy (”how far is too far?”) in the most satisfactory way I have encountered. She also addresses hot button issues such as lifelong celibacy, modesty, p0rn0gr4phy* and m4sturbat1on.
I was most surprised and encouraged by how much of Real Sex was relevant to me personally as a married woman. Real sex is sex within the union of marriage, and Winner is right to follow the example of the Apostle Paul in framing her thoughts on chastity around this central notion. She argues that real sex is the sex that happens in the midst of the routines and rhythms of everyday life, when dinner is cooking, bills are being paid or while you can hear the footsteps of your children going to the bathroom. Real sex is possible because of the shared life we have together, the way that we laugh and talk and cry and debate.
Real Sex by Lauren Winner is a must read for college students and singles in their twenties and beyond, but also encouraging and profitable to those who are thinking about the purpose of sex within marriage or about issues regarding chastity as parents. The book is 175 pages, an appropriate length to get readers thinking without trying to be a systematic ethic of chastity (which have been written before.) The bibliography and notes also provide a good backbone for further reading on the material Winner addresses for those who are interested in pursuing these issues further. I can’t recommend Real Sex for young teens, but for those with some exposure to the issues of sexuality, I can’t think of another book I’d recommend more highly.
March 11, 2011
I really wanted to love this book, because I adored Girl Meets God and liked Mudhouse Sabbath a great deal. Instead, I was really disappointed.
1) I felt like Girl Meets God was a conversation and it felt like an afternoon with a friend. This was a lecture.
2) I have had sex. I don't feel like this makes me a bad person, a bad woman or a bad Christian. I'm not even allowed to GET married, so any sex I have will be "premarital." I can honestly say I was in love with every woman I've had sex with and I do not regret my experiences. I feel like the real damage is when you have sex with people you don't care about. And honestly, those are my feelings; I certainly don't judge anyone. And I would never presume to sit down with someone and discuss how they're sleeping with too many people. (As we are supposed to do as Christians, according to the author.)
3) The entire book was about heterosexual relationships, so it's not even applicable to me.
4) If I didn't have to read it for book club, I wouldn't have finished.
1) I felt like Girl Meets God was a conversation and it felt like an afternoon with a friend. This was a lecture.
2) I have had sex. I don't feel like this makes me a bad person, a bad woman or a bad Christian. I'm not even allowed to GET married, so any sex I have will be "premarital." I can honestly say I was in love with every woman I've had sex with and I do not regret my experiences. I feel like the real damage is when you have sex with people you don't care about. And honestly, those are my feelings; I certainly don't judge anyone. And I would never presume to sit down with someone and discuss how they're sleeping with too many people. (As we are supposed to do as Christians, according to the author.)
3) The entire book was about heterosexual relationships, so it's not even applicable to me.
4) If I didn't have to read it for book club, I wouldn't have finished.
February 18, 2018
The author shares that her first physical encounter was at the age of...fifteen! She eventually self-identifies as a Christian and aspires to figure out the definition of the word 'fornication' despite being a college student. Whatever your location on hour journey you will be educated, entertained, and encouraged as she shares experiences, Bible verses, and data. Insightful.
July 7, 2009
This book is beautiful in every sense of the word. This book is honest, insightful and sprinkled with humor! Even as a married man, I found this book deep and impacting. The reason I found it so profound is that Winner did not approach sexuality as a postmodern "anything goes" writer or as a gnostic anti-body Christian. I found that she took a careful middle ground that was loyal to morality and also affirmed our bodies. I found it especially insightful that Winner made the connection about chastity with the necessity of affirming the human body.
Overall, the books candor and frankness will engage the thoughts of Christians who struggle with the concept of Christianity and sexuality. My only regret about this book is that I did not read it when I was still single. My recommendation? Go out and buy this book now. Trust me, you won't regret it!
Overall, the books candor and frankness will engage the thoughts of Christians who struggle with the concept of Christianity and sexuality. My only regret about this book is that I did not read it when I was still single. My recommendation? Go out and buy this book now. Trust me, you won't regret it!
February 7, 2008
An interesting book on chastity and why it's important in a Christian context. She makes some excellent points about community and the fallacy that we are as autonomous as we think we are. However, she fails to critique marriage as an institution at all (and I am positive her academic background would have allowed her to do so). Because her stance is so firmly "wait until marriage" this also excludes any discussion of on-heterosexual relationships. She never explicitly states that this is her hard and fast reading of Christianity, so if you are a more liberal Christian then you will likely be disappointed with Winner's analysis. I will give her credit for critiquing the general Church's lack of nuance around sexuality and their bland abstinence-only rhetoric.
February 20, 2018
If you're curious about what an articulate student of religious history who entered the Christian church as an adult has to say about Christian sexuality, this is a great place to start.
One of the most candid, clear and fun books on Christian sexuality that I have read. While Winner has clearly done her theological homework, her writing is full of illustrative anecdotes and personal confession, rather than being heavy on quotation. Where she does reference a theologian (Chrysostom and Augustine come to mind, she's a religious history student, after all), she chooses her quotes well, doesn't break voice, and demonstrates why the Christian church cares what someone a thousand years ago has to say about when, where, and why we have sex today.
One of the most candid, clear and fun books on Christian sexuality that I have read. While Winner has clearly done her theological homework, her writing is full of illustrative anecdotes and personal confession, rather than being heavy on quotation. Where she does reference a theologian (Chrysostom and Augustine come to mind, she's a religious history student, after all), she chooses her quotes well, doesn't break voice, and demonstrates why the Christian church cares what someone a thousand years ago has to say about when, where, and why we have sex today.
March 10, 2025
yikes. this book is 20 yrs old and lauren winner is now ordained and still talking about celibacy & chastity so i hope she has shifted even a little bit, because wow yikes. at certain points i agreed with her on the sanctity of sex and the concept of submission but for me it leads me to ethical kink practice and kinky theology and for her it leads to abstinence and marital sex. a huge problem is that she never once talked about what marriage is legally and socially versus how people might experience what she means by christian marriage through other types of relationships. there’s also absolutely no consideration for queer and trans people in this whole book nor is there any discussion of how race, class, and culture factor into modesty and purity. overall this book contradicts itself 100 times and is maybe less overtly harmful than other christian books on sex but is still quite bad
April 5, 2018
Winner does a fantastic job of talking very honestly about hard issues and speaks with loving parity about the holiness of both singleness and marriage. A much needed read!
March 9, 2025
Excellent. Incredibly helpful resource for Christians young or old, single or married. I love how the author emphasizes chastity as a way of life and a spiritual discipline that all Christians should cultivate. I appreciated the concrete examples of how this might manifest in various stages of a Christian's life and relationships. I've read a lot of books lately critiquing purity culture. I've needed those, but I needed this too as I rebuild what a healthy relationship with my sexuality looks like as a follower of Jesus.
February 15, 2012
I'd actually give this book 2.5 stars if I could. I normally enjoy Winner's writing, but this book felt like it began wandering early on and never found its rhythm or a final resting place. The tone also seemed a little forced, like several ideas were mashed rather than woven together.
In particular, there seemed to be a fair amount of dissonance between the deeper paradigms dealing with the spirituality of chastity in a holistic, communal way and the seemingly arbitrary assertions about sexuality with which she peppered the discussion. She discloses early on that in the midst of writing the book she ended up meeting and marrying a guy, so I imagine the confused tone might be echoing the confusing transition for her into married life. I can respect the difficulty of communicating clearly from both sides of the fence.
Nonetheless, I am glad that she brought voices like Richard Hays and Wendell Berry into the conversation for a younger generation that might not otherwise engage with the deeper theological underpinnings of sexuality. Having said that, those perspectives were introduced so briefly here that they struggled to rise above the clutter of pop culture analysis and anecdotal evidence. All told, my favorite part was probably the list of lies the church tells about sex and my least favorite part was probably the part on modesty.
It's hard to give a mediocre rating to a book on a topic that takes a lot of bravery to engage. I especially appreciated Winner's humility and generosity in speaking about the subject matter in a way that everyone could engage with at some level, even in disagreement. I think if more Christians approached conversations about sexuality with a similarly generous tone, there could be more open and productive dialogue in church communities. But, in the end, I think this book falls short of engaging a paradigm shifting conversation about chastity.
In particular, there seemed to be a fair amount of dissonance between the deeper paradigms dealing with the spirituality of chastity in a holistic, communal way and the seemingly arbitrary assertions about sexuality with which she peppered the discussion. She discloses early on that in the midst of writing the book she ended up meeting and marrying a guy, so I imagine the confused tone might be echoing the confusing transition for her into married life. I can respect the difficulty of communicating clearly from both sides of the fence.
Nonetheless, I am glad that she brought voices like Richard Hays and Wendell Berry into the conversation for a younger generation that might not otherwise engage with the deeper theological underpinnings of sexuality. Having said that, those perspectives were introduced so briefly here that they struggled to rise above the clutter of pop culture analysis and anecdotal evidence. All told, my favorite part was probably the list of lies the church tells about sex and my least favorite part was probably the part on modesty.
It's hard to give a mediocre rating to a book on a topic that takes a lot of bravery to engage. I especially appreciated Winner's humility and generosity in speaking about the subject matter in a way that everyone could engage with at some level, even in disagreement. I think if more Christians approached conversations about sexuality with a similarly generous tone, there could be more open and productive dialogue in church communities. But, in the end, I think this book falls short of engaging a paradigm shifting conversation about chastity.
November 19, 2009
I finished this book tonight. I had previously read Lauren Winner's Girl Meets God and found that book a tremendous read so I wanted to read some of her others.
Real Sex is well written and solidly based in Biblical principles and good theology while dealing with the very real issues that people in modern America face every day. What I take from this book is that chastity is a way of being as a Christian and that married or not we practice the disciplines of being in community while being first in relationship with God. All of us face the tensions of living our lives differently once we have chosen to live a Biblically based life. Whether we are dealing with boredom in marital sex or the frustrations of unfilled longings in singleness we are all learning how to live our lives in a new way through spiritual practices that entail disciplining our human wants.
One of the premises of the book is that premarital sex is flirty, exciting and sets an unrealistic expectation of married sexual relations that become a product of familiarity and trust.
The book is not preachy and it doesn't give rules. She gives an an interesting and worthwhile perspective on a hot-button topic in American culture and society.
Real Sex is well written and solidly based in Biblical principles and good theology while dealing with the very real issues that people in modern America face every day. What I take from this book is that chastity is a way of being as a Christian and that married or not we practice the disciplines of being in community while being first in relationship with God. All of us face the tensions of living our lives differently once we have chosen to live a Biblically based life. Whether we are dealing with boredom in marital sex or the frustrations of unfilled longings in singleness we are all learning how to live our lives in a new way through spiritual practices that entail disciplining our human wants.
One of the premises of the book is that premarital sex is flirty, exciting and sets an unrealistic expectation of married sexual relations that become a product of familiarity and trust.
The book is not preachy and it doesn't give rules. She gives an an interesting and worthwhile perspective on a hot-button topic in American culture and society.
May 7, 2010
I am so surprised at my response to this book thus far! I have only read a couple chapters, and I think the 2nd half will be much better (which is the practical stuff on practicing chastity). But thus far I am absolutely not compelled by her theological arguments. She's coming from a very "radical orthodoxy" perspective, which I generally find distasteful. She's arguing that Christians shouldn't have sex outside of marriage simply b/c that's the way the Bible says it should be, way back in Genesis. And that, while sex is natural and good, our original sin has deformed the goodness of those natural desires, so they can't be trusted.
But I am more persuaded by Mathew Fox and by Celtic spirituality which makes a case for original BLESSING rather than original SIN. The concept of original sin didn't take hold until 4th Century A.D.!!!
[Side note: While I'm not persuaded by her theological argument for preserving sex for marriage, I am nonetheless very persuaded by many secular arguments, like STD's, unwanted pregnancy, emotional havoc that can accompany that level of physical intimacy w/o a parallel degree of commitment, etc.]
But I am more persuaded by Mathew Fox and by Celtic spirituality which makes a case for original BLESSING rather than original SIN. The concept of original sin didn't take hold until 4th Century A.D.!!!
[Side note: While I'm not persuaded by her theological argument for preserving sex for marriage, I am nonetheless very persuaded by many secular arguments, like STD's, unwanted pregnancy, emotional havoc that can accompany that level of physical intimacy w/o a parallel degree of commitment, etc.]
October 3, 2012
This is a fantistic book on chastity ... the least liked/understood of them all. Winner's greatest argument in this whole book is that all Christians are a part of the Body of Christ. We live in community there for chastity is a communal ideal. Therefore, the Church needs to reevaluate how it understands 1) the Christian Life, 2) the acquiring of virtues and 3) how we live as one body.
The argument for sex not being a private but a communal act is important to understand. In the same way, no sinful act or act of virture is private either. All the things we do have an affect on ourselves as a person and on our communities, since we are members of them.
Winner, appropriately, does not include a discussion of homosexuality in this book as it is not nessecary to her stated purpose. She does an excellent job at describing the sacramental life of the Church as a necessary way to view our entire lives. It is not enough to be forgiven, one must obey Christ and "Go, and sin no more." Something that is made possible by the power of God's grace.
The argument for sex not being a private but a communal act is important to understand. In the same way, no sinful act or act of virture is private either. All the things we do have an affect on ourselves as a person and on our communities, since we are members of them.
Winner, appropriately, does not include a discussion of homosexuality in this book as it is not nessecary to her stated purpose. She does an excellent job at describing the sacramental life of the Church as a necessary way to view our entire lives. It is not enough to be forgiven, one must obey Christ and "Go, and sin no more." Something that is made possible by the power of God's grace.
June 15, 2011
Lauren Winner's book on the Christian understanding of chastity is radical and different because it explores and expounds Christian sexual ethics on the basis of the Christian gospel and casts it as a practice to be lived out in the life of the Church.
Sex is a community concern because sex is an integral part of an individuals formation both as a person and a community member. Winner shuns a shallow ethos of "saving oneself" to make sex "more special" but rather understands it as a way of being faithful to a holistic commitment to Christian discipleship in a community. Sex already is special, and a communal Christian commitment teaches us to be faithful stewards of sexual desire.
Her final chapters on "what singleness teaches the church" and "the practicalities of repentance" are amazing and deeply needful words for a Christian culture that is deeply confused as to the ground of its thinking about sex.
Sex is a community concern because sex is an integral part of an individuals formation both as a person and a community member. Winner shuns a shallow ethos of "saving oneself" to make sex "more special" but rather understands it as a way of being faithful to a holistic commitment to Christian discipleship in a community. Sex already is special, and a communal Christian commitment teaches us to be faithful stewards of sexual desire.
Her final chapters on "what singleness teaches the church" and "the practicalities of repentance" are amazing and deeply needful words for a Christian culture that is deeply confused as to the ground of its thinking about sex.
Read
July 3, 2010Whereas so much of Christian sexuality has fallen into two camps - the via negativa of "Don't do this! Avoid that!" and the cartoonish "Christian married sex is the heavenly!" - Winner charts a positive sexual ethic of chastity (which, she persuasively argues, is NOT to be confused with virginity). In doing so, she restores an understanding of sexuality that is for ALL Christians at ALL times and thoroughly faithful, practical, and hopeful. I used much of the content of her book as a basis for our approach to sexuality and romantic relationships with our youth group, as well, and it is one of two books that I would recommend to every college student and/or young adult seeking a Christian ethic of sexuality.
March 26, 2007
absolutely the most hope-giving and liberating treatment of sexandchastity and everything that gets tied in to how we think about sexandchastity (identity, idolatry, value, beauty, community, and on and on). please, please, everyone read this one for all of our sakes.
edit: also, winner affirms singlehood and argues for the single person's place in the Church body as a single person (as opposed to a not-yet-married person), two areas in which we as the Church can do better.
edit: also, winner affirms singlehood and argues for the single person's place in the Church body as a single person (as opposed to a not-yet-married person), two areas in which we as the Church can do better.
August 4, 2009
Different than any book you've read on the subject - insightful and challenging, but smart.
February 8, 2017
It's hard to imagine a better exploration of chastity in the contemporary context. Superb.
December 13, 2024
Witty, vulnerable, and clear. Also, dated. Published in 2005, this book was probably cutting-edge at the time; whereas today I found it often skimming the surface of what I know other authors have since published good resources on the same topics. The author touches on theology of the body, community, non-erotic expressions of sexuality, modesty, abstinence, married sex, dating, and pornography. I appreciated her nuancing of the terms chastity, celibacy, and abstinence.
April 26, 2021
Excellent and spiritually insightful.
August 15, 2016
2.5 stars
Winner seemed a little confused about her end goal. On the one hand, she spends a lot of time talking about the spirituality of sex (intuitive, abstract concepts) and on the other hand, she tries to address some very practical, lines-in-the-sand guidelines for sexual purity; she winds up failing on both accounts, as she often is contradictory.
My major concern is that her arguments are often not rooted in Biblical text, but rather on her or another person's opinion and reasoning. For instance, when she speaks of masturbation, she comes to the conclusion that occasional masturbation is acceptable, but it shouldn't be a regular thing. Her support? One pastor's opinion. In another instance, she tells of a mentor who advised her and her now-husband to refrain (while dating) from doing "anything sexual that you wouldn't be comfortable doing on the steps of [a public building]." (p. 106) Though it seems like good advice on the surface, it overlooks the fact that comfort levels vary, and the more we do something, the more comfortable we become with it. God's standards, on the other hand, are not relative or subject to changing comfort levels. She also fails to really explore the fact that sexual sin, at its core, is a matter of the heart. (She concludes by saying that she and her boyfriend kissed to their hearts' content and stopped just short of taking their clothes off. There are a whole lot of things you can do with your clothes on, so that's not reassuring!)
Since this is a book on chastity, I was expecting a little more attention to be paid to singleness and celibacy. (Even though chastity isn't a synonym for celibacy, most people associate the two terms.) Actually, most of the book is focused on marriage. Even in the one chapter specifically designated to celibacy, Winner still ends up addressing marriage. (Since she wasn't a virgin before marriage, and she began dating/became engaged to/married her husband all while writing this book, it stands to reason that she had little experience with singleness and celibacy, and I can see why she had a difficult time focusing on the topic. That doesn't really help those of us who are single and celibate, though.)
If you're single and looking for a book that focuses a bit more on that lifestyle, I would highly recommend Singled Out: Why Celibacy Must Be Reinvented in Today's Church.
Having said all that, here are a few quotes that I did appreciate:
"For the point of chastity is not that you turn your attention away from other people to make you more attractive to them but that you turn your attention away from sexual and romantic entanglements with other people and orient yourself toward God." (p.131)
"The unmarried Christian who practices chastity refrains from sex in order to remember that God desires your person, your body, more than any man or woman ever will." (p. 128)
On confronting others' sexual sin: "I was once asked what I would say to a friend whom I knew was having premarital sex... I [replied] that the first step in speaking to my friends about sex was making sure that we enjoyed relationships built on top of hundreds of ordinary shared experiences – plays attended together and pumpkins carved together and accompanying one another on doctors appointments and changing the oil together... Community doesn't come about simply by having hard, intimate conversations. Having hard, intimate conversations is part of what is possible when people are already opening up their day-to-day lives to one another." (p.59)
Winner seemed a little confused about her end goal. On the one hand, she spends a lot of time talking about the spirituality of sex (intuitive, abstract concepts) and on the other hand, she tries to address some very practical, lines-in-the-sand guidelines for sexual purity; she winds up failing on both accounts, as she often is contradictory.
My major concern is that her arguments are often not rooted in Biblical text, but rather on her or another person's opinion and reasoning. For instance, when she speaks of masturbation, she comes to the conclusion that occasional masturbation is acceptable, but it shouldn't be a regular thing. Her support? One pastor's opinion. In another instance, she tells of a mentor who advised her and her now-husband to refrain (while dating) from doing "anything sexual that you wouldn't be comfortable doing on the steps of [a public building]." (p. 106) Though it seems like good advice on the surface, it overlooks the fact that comfort levels vary, and the more we do something, the more comfortable we become with it. God's standards, on the other hand, are not relative or subject to changing comfort levels. She also fails to really explore the fact that sexual sin, at its core, is a matter of the heart. (She concludes by saying that she and her boyfriend kissed to their hearts' content and stopped just short of taking their clothes off. There are a whole lot of things you can do with your clothes on, so that's not reassuring!)
Since this is a book on chastity, I was expecting a little more attention to be paid to singleness and celibacy. (Even though chastity isn't a synonym for celibacy, most people associate the two terms.) Actually, most of the book is focused on marriage. Even in the one chapter specifically designated to celibacy, Winner still ends up addressing marriage. (Since she wasn't a virgin before marriage, and she began dating/became engaged to/married her husband all while writing this book, it stands to reason that she had little experience with singleness and celibacy, and I can see why she had a difficult time focusing on the topic. That doesn't really help those of us who are single and celibate, though.)
If you're single and looking for a book that focuses a bit more on that lifestyle, I would highly recommend Singled Out: Why Celibacy Must Be Reinvented in Today's Church.
Having said all that, here are a few quotes that I did appreciate:
"For the point of chastity is not that you turn your attention away from other people to make you more attractive to them but that you turn your attention away from sexual and romantic entanglements with other people and orient yourself toward God." (p.131)
"The unmarried Christian who practices chastity refrains from sex in order to remember that God desires your person, your body, more than any man or woman ever will." (p. 128)
On confronting others' sexual sin: "I was once asked what I would say to a friend whom I knew was having premarital sex... I [replied] that the first step in speaking to my friends about sex was making sure that we enjoyed relationships built on top of hundreds of ordinary shared experiences – plays attended together and pumpkins carved together and accompanying one another on doctors appointments and changing the oil together... Community doesn't come about simply by having hard, intimate conversations. Having hard, intimate conversations is part of what is possible when people are already opening up their day-to-day lives to one another." (p.59)
October 12, 2019
I guess I had a couple of reasons for picking this book from my favorite giveaway shelf a few weeks ago. First, Lauren Winner is on the dissertation committee of one of my best friends, and I hadn't read anything by her yet. But in addition to that, this general topic has been on my mind recently, with Josh Harris disowning his book I Kissed Dating Goodbye and then leaving his wife, his pastorate, and his Christian faith.
Winner hasn't taken that same trajectory, but there are things in her biography that make reading Real Sex more complicated than it originally was. She began writing the book as a single woman, and by the time the book was published, she was a newlywed. All well and good—except that six years later, she was divorced. That casts a sad shadow over Winner's joyfully confident tone in the book, unfortunately.
But one of the questions I have about this area (regarding Harris and Winner) is, How much does an author's subsequent biography affect the validity of what they wrote before all that happened? Harris wants us all to believe that his book, which was influential amongst American Evangelical Christians in the 1990s, especially, was wrong-headed and should be destroyed. But . . . do we have to accept that, just because he himself has moved to a different perspective on the topic? I haven't read his book, so I can't say anything about that.
I have read Winner's treatise on chastity, so I can do my best to take it simply as the book it was, regardless of the real life that's happened since. And in that way, I can appreciate a lot of the content. I found the opening chapters in particular quite refreshing in their honesty and candor. I agree with Winner's vision for greater community to support people in all stages of life, and in all areas, not just sex. This book is kind of a transition from all the books about sex and Christianity from the 1970s through about 2000, leading to slightly different ways of regarding the whole topic.
There's also quite a bit about the book that I didn't like. Winner writes with a pleasant, conversational style (though she reminds the reader that she is an academic by starting a lot of sentences with "Indeed"), but too often she sounds like a privileged, 20-something Christian who probably feels she's the smartest person in the room. For me, there were too many moments where she sounded like someone who's got all this stuff figured out for us. I guess that's one of the things that's hardest about reading it now, these years later.
I also found a bit of contradictory, back-and-forth content. In one chapter, the problem is that sexuality is too private in our society; but the next chapter complains that it's too public. Marriage is the ideal state, implies one section; but no, actually singleness is the real ideal state, the next section suggests. It can get a little confusing.
A final (minor) critique: Winner includes so many quotes from Wendell Berry and Lewis Smedes that I often wondered if it would be more worthwhile to just read them instead.
Overall, it's quite a complicated book to respond to. There are parts that were fantastic, and other parts that were just okay. It's not a book that I think Winner should be ashamed of. But it's not a book that I can completely recommend, either, because there are too many caveats a reader would need to be aware of before starting.
Winner hasn't taken that same trajectory, but there are things in her biography that make reading Real Sex more complicated than it originally was. She began writing the book as a single woman, and by the time the book was published, she was a newlywed. All well and good—except that six years later, she was divorced. That casts a sad shadow over Winner's joyfully confident tone in the book, unfortunately.
But one of the questions I have about this area (regarding Harris and Winner) is, How much does an author's subsequent biography affect the validity of what they wrote before all that happened? Harris wants us all to believe that his book, which was influential amongst American Evangelical Christians in the 1990s, especially, was wrong-headed and should be destroyed. But . . . do we have to accept that, just because he himself has moved to a different perspective on the topic? I haven't read his book, so I can't say anything about that.
I have read Winner's treatise on chastity, so I can do my best to take it simply as the book it was, regardless of the real life that's happened since. And in that way, I can appreciate a lot of the content. I found the opening chapters in particular quite refreshing in their honesty and candor. I agree with Winner's vision for greater community to support people in all stages of life, and in all areas, not just sex. This book is kind of a transition from all the books about sex and Christianity from the 1970s through about 2000, leading to slightly different ways of regarding the whole topic.
There's also quite a bit about the book that I didn't like. Winner writes with a pleasant, conversational style (though she reminds the reader that she is an academic by starting a lot of sentences with "Indeed"), but too often she sounds like a privileged, 20-something Christian who probably feels she's the smartest person in the room. For me, there were too many moments where she sounded like someone who's got all this stuff figured out for us. I guess that's one of the things that's hardest about reading it now, these years later.
I also found a bit of contradictory, back-and-forth content. In one chapter, the problem is that sexuality is too private in our society; but the next chapter complains that it's too public. Marriage is the ideal state, implies one section; but no, actually singleness is the real ideal state, the next section suggests. It can get a little confusing.
A final (minor) critique: Winner includes so many quotes from Wendell Berry and Lewis Smedes that I often wondered if it would be more worthwhile to just read them instead.
Overall, it's quite a complicated book to respond to. There are parts that were fantastic, and other parts that were just okay. It's not a book that I think Winner should be ashamed of. But it's not a book that I can completely recommend, either, because there are too many caveats a reader would need to be aware of before starting.
December 4, 2007
Having been unimpressed by Girl Meets God, I had low expectations for this book. They were, I suppose, met.
While I haven't entirely sussed out my own personal sexual ethics, I'm inclined to believe that a Christian sexual ethics should lean heavily on integrity and commitment and suchlike, so I was sympathetic to those portions of her arguments, though I reacted against her ideas and arguments a number of times as well. I found myself strongly wanting to be a better person, whereas Girl Meets God found me, well wanting to smack/shake her and possibly convert to something not Christianity out of spite.
Highlights from a far longer reaction post I wrote:
I appreciated her talk about bodies not being inherently bad. She also talks a lot about the Yes of sex-within-marriage, which makes sense. The tendency of churchy talk to do the sex=bad thing is really frustrating. And really, giving horny young people the impression that they never get to have satisfying sex is so not the way to win them over to your side.
She also talks about the importance of Christian community -- in all things, not just in keeping each other from falling into sin -- and about actually talking about sex, in part to counter the unrealistic and unhealthy ideas the mainstream media imparts (e.g., that sex is always exciting and if it isn't then there's something wrong with your relationship).
In Chapter 6, she talks about boundary drawing, about the importance of making decisions before the heat of the moment, and I might actually recommend reading this section because she makes good points and does a good job of making them. (Are my low expectations showing?) She also talks about physical-sexual involvement with a person as being a way of growing comfortable in our bodies -- with the freedoms and the limitations, plus it feels good.
Early on, Winner writes, "Nor will I tackle issues like adultery, homosexuality, and divorce; though those areas are all topics that a comprehensive account of Christian sexual ethics would need to address" (p. 24). I understand her decision, but the fact that she is all about marriage makes readers who are at least a little bit homosexual rather uncomfortable, since marriage basically isn't an option -- at least not in most churches, most countries, or most U.S. states. And it also problematizes the whole "procreation is a major part of sex/marriage" thing. I mean, she mentions issues like sterility kind of in passing, but it is clear that the norm is sex which has the potential to lead to procreation. Which would make me uncomfortable if I were sterile. And given that I have no desire to bring biological children of my own into this world (for a variety of reasons) does in fact make me uncomfortable once I get past being uncomfortable because of the whole queer thing.
While I haven't entirely sussed out my own personal sexual ethics, I'm inclined to believe that a Christian sexual ethics should lean heavily on integrity and commitment and suchlike, so I was sympathetic to those portions of her arguments, though I reacted against her ideas and arguments a number of times as well. I found myself strongly wanting to be a better person, whereas Girl Meets God found me, well wanting to smack/shake her and possibly convert to something not Christianity out of spite.
Highlights from a far longer reaction post I wrote:
I appreciated her talk about bodies not being inherently bad. She also talks a lot about the Yes of sex-within-marriage, which makes sense. The tendency of churchy talk to do the sex=bad thing is really frustrating. And really, giving horny young people the impression that they never get to have satisfying sex is so not the way to win them over to your side.
She also talks about the importance of Christian community -- in all things, not just in keeping each other from falling into sin -- and about actually talking about sex, in part to counter the unrealistic and unhealthy ideas the mainstream media imparts (e.g., that sex is always exciting and if it isn't then there's something wrong with your relationship).
In Chapter 6, she talks about boundary drawing, about the importance of making decisions before the heat of the moment, and I might actually recommend reading this section because she makes good points and does a good job of making them. (Are my low expectations showing?) She also talks about physical-sexual involvement with a person as being a way of growing comfortable in our bodies -- with the freedoms and the limitations, plus it feels good.
Early on, Winner writes, "Nor will I tackle issues like adultery, homosexuality, and divorce; though those areas are all topics that a comprehensive account of Christian sexual ethics would need to address" (p. 24). I understand her decision, but the fact that she is all about marriage makes readers who are at least a little bit homosexual rather uncomfortable, since marriage basically isn't an option -- at least not in most churches, most countries, or most U.S. states. And it also problematizes the whole "procreation is a major part of sex/marriage" thing. I mean, she mentions issues like sterility kind of in passing, but it is clear that the norm is sex which has the potential to lead to procreation. Which would make me uncomfortable if I were sterile. And given that I have no desire to bring biological children of my own into this world (for a variety of reasons) does in fact make me uncomfortable once I get past being uncomfortable because of the whole queer thing.
August 7, 2021
I'd like to discuss what I know is true about Gregory Wolfe and what I strongly suspect is true. I will lead into a discussion of why I believe she has made a mistake by inviting Gregory Wolfe back into the fold.
I know that years ago, after Greg and I had a mild disagreement on email, he wrote and asked if I wanted to make him his enemy--it was my choice, he said. I will include the email exchange below.
I know that I told him to screw himself, and a few weeks later began the hacking adventure that continues to this day. Of course, I strongly suspect Greg is my hacker. When I observed that the Image women were being hacked (someone was dropping all the pics of the topless breast-feeder that was featured on the Image cover), I figured it was Greg. When I saw the Facebook page dedicated to Gregory Wolfe, with many shiny dick picks on it, I assumed it was made by someone who had been hacked by Greg.
None of these is damning on its own, but they gather in conclusiveness as a pattern. And I was pretty sure that the person who placed porn descriptions on many pages of my Google wall was Greg. In addition, I was pretty sure that Greg was the one who hacked my computer with pics of small girls getting raped and spiritually murdered.
Is it possible that I have multiple hackers, each taking his turn? Sure. But that seems very unlikely to me.
My hacker comes after me almost daily in myriad ways. Years ago when my toenails were infected, my facebook page was hammered with anti-fungus adds. It wasn't just the stray add, such as when facebook "hears" you say something. This was far more extreme. Another time, after I believe Greg "caught" me viewing pornography (the legal kind, not Greg's favorite), I found a mock novel cover titled "Ryan's hand." It's kind of funny in a college prank way. But these pranks have added up to many barrels over the years. These daily pranks I would classify as things I strongly suspect are Greg's doing.
I know that my wife's phone was hacked and that her computer was hacked, as well as mine, and I brought sexual harassment charges against Greg at Seattle Pacific. Their admin wrote back saying, Mr. Wolfe says he didn't do anything of which he is accused.
I also know that several young Image women acted in a mock trailer that Greg made. It was called "The Interns." The girls offered cleavage and touched pencils to their mouths in Lolita fashion.
It is compelling that a few years later some of these women, and others on the Image staff, accused Greg of sexual harassment and psychological intimidation. The only thing I ever heard any of Greg's fans say after that was that the Image women were politically correct and simply accusing a powerful patriarch of the faith, during #metoo, etc. Where the hell are the Christians regarding Gregory Wolfe? Too scared? Shaking under the bed, biting a thumb? From my point of view, it certainly seems pathetic and totally absent of courage.
I also know that when I told Jim Tedrick about my Google wall being covered in porn descriptions, he said that if I told anyone it was Greg, he'd cancel my pubs and tell people I'm delusional. He said he didn't believe it was Greg. He said, "Greg has learned his lesson after losing Image." Learned his lesson. I suppose Jim knew about what Greg had done to those women at Image, and believed, in pie-eyed good-Christian fashion, that now this monster of abuse has become like a gentle lamb. Jim's belief betrays a very innocent view of psychology.
Of course, I provide only a brief summary here. But let's jump to a few days ago when Greg posted a pic of himself hanging out with Lauren Winner and other Christian leaders. The gathering was intended to invite Greg back in the fold. But I have a huge problem with his action. After all, Greg has denied everything he's ever been accused of.
I believe Jim Tedrick, Lauren Winner, and other Christian leaders really don't care about the shocking abusiveness of Gregory Wolfe. It seems they ignore it, reduce it, sweep it under the rug. Greg's achievement with Image was an important one, and they want to feed on his intellect and work-horse strength as a marketer.
But Lauren Winner made a mistake when she signaled that Greg is welcomed back. After all, he hasn't even owned up to his crimes--or repented for his sins, to use the Christian phrase--and I really wonder why that doesn't matter. We're talking about serious abuse of young women, and multiple hacking charges, including the use of porn and child porn. And Lauren Winner and her buddies are doing the Christian thing and inviting Greg back. In fact, it is the Christian thing to do in many organizations and churches. When a man grabs a pussy or bullies a woman to near suicide, many approach the sinner to welcome him back. If it involved sex with an underage kid, they'll give him a raise and promotion.
Why are you participating in this gross tradition, Lauren Winner? I'd really like to know. Maybe Christians are generally out to lunch. You certainly seem like you aren't thinking clearly.
Ryan Blacketter
(email with Gregory Wolfe below)
To: Blacketter, Ryan
Subject: Hi
gwolfe@spu.edu
April 27, 2016, 8:11 PM
You completely misunderstand me and are on the verge of losing any goodwill I have left after your repeated acts or rudeness, distrust, and paranoia.
I demand an instant apology or I will lift not a finger in service of your book.
From now on I will have a zero tolerance policy for any snotty bullshit from you.
You decide if you want to make me an enemy or not.
You happen to know absolutely nothing about publishing or blogs, by the way.
And you sure as fuck don’t need to lecture me on the Old Testament or darkness.
I chose you book, Ryan. Did you think I chose it because I liked Amish romances.
Don’t you dare ever lecture me again.
You are at a crossroads. You make the decision.
From: Ryan L Blacketter [mailto:ryanblacketter@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 11:17 PM
To: Wolfe, Greg
Subject: Re: hi
Greg,
Publishing an essay on Gregory Wolfe's blog is a prestigious publication that a writer can list as a credit. Publishing an essay on just about any other blog is not--with, as I said, a few notable exceptions.
I can only write something that is honestly the way I have experienced it. This was true with writing Down in the River, a book that many will find dark, but is a book that I find full of goodness and light.
"Dark," when used negatively about books, is a word favored by those who refuse an inward experience, who remain innocent of their own hearts. It's as if we are marketing to the very people who would hate the book if they read it. In correspondence I have used the word dark with an implied wink, knowing that you are a literary person. The notion that we have to apologize for literature is frustrating.
Any writing that is absent goodness or redemption is just ugly, and the reason for not writing this way is because of its absence of truth and hope, and amounts to despair and death. But if I'm going to write anything--even a thousand word essay--I am going to try to make it true according to my vision.
People who have read and enjoyed the Old Testament--a minority--will find my writing far less profound, and far less dark, but will at least admit that I'm trying to get at the nature of the human heart. I'm a Christian, and these are the Christians I want to reach. Do not ask me to write an advertisement. If you don't like the essays I write, don't ask me to write them.
Ryan
May 30, 2020
I picked up this book expecting to be preached to. Instead I was preached at. It was as if Winner was flinging anecdotes and maxims and quotes from religious scholars in my direction. Reading this book reminded me of the time I was discussing a serious relationship problem with a married friend and she said, "Amy, once you get married, you'll realize that things like this don't really matter." I came into it expecting to be challenged as a liberal 20-something 2019 Christian. But it wasn't challenged because I had a hard time finding the overall Biblical evidence she provided strong or convicting.
The issues? The book was written by an author whose personal relational circumstances changed during its writing. She began the project as a single woman and then got engaged and married while writing the book. As a result, the perspective seems to shift from her initial goal of attacking the church and pop culture's stance on chastity and finding an actual Biblical explanation and instead falls back on party lines that become easier when you fall into the church's preferred state of being: marriage. (Not to say that this is true for *all* churches, but it is largely true for the American PCA church.)
Some of the book seemed to be just confusing and self-contradicting. For example, Lie #3: How You Dress Doesn't Matter where she discusses how our clothing choices affect our attitudes and therefore it's a shame that people dress down for casual Fridays at work, come to their college class in gym clothes, and don't dress up for church (she is not a fan of the "Come just as you are" policies). But then conversely, she blames societal structures and organizational leadership for the perpetuation of women dressing immodestly (because those are the clothes available) and yet still seems to put herself up as doing better--she shops vintage fashion stores because regular ones will diminish you into nothing but a "pair of breasts" (at least that is the take away I got from her anecdote about a house guest she had stay with her and her husband). Yet, she failed to address the societal objectification and oversexualization of women that contributes to her overall theory that society forces women to dress with low cut shirts, which in turn influences women to be more promiscuous. Who gave that power to a shirt? Who said that women's bare skin is more sexual than men's bare skin? Why can't the book urge that we change that instead? The argument is confusing and does nothing but package tradition with a shiny new cover.
The issues? The book was written by an author whose personal relational circumstances changed during its writing. She began the project as a single woman and then got engaged and married while writing the book. As a result, the perspective seems to shift from her initial goal of attacking the church and pop culture's stance on chastity and finding an actual Biblical explanation and instead falls back on party lines that become easier when you fall into the church's preferred state of being: marriage. (Not to say that this is true for *all* churches, but it is largely true for the American PCA church.)
Some of the book seemed to be just confusing and self-contradicting. For example, Lie #3: How You Dress Doesn't Matter where she discusses how our clothing choices affect our attitudes and therefore it's a shame that people dress down for casual Fridays at work, come to their college class in gym clothes, and don't dress up for church (she is not a fan of the "Come just as you are" policies). But then conversely, she blames societal structures and organizational leadership for the perpetuation of women dressing immodestly (because those are the clothes available) and yet still seems to put herself up as doing better--she shops vintage fashion stores because regular ones will diminish you into nothing but a "pair of breasts" (at least that is the take away I got from her anecdote about a house guest she had stay with her and her husband). Yet, she failed to address the societal objectification and oversexualization of women that contributes to her overall theory that society forces women to dress with low cut shirts, which in turn influences women to be more promiscuous. Who gave that power to a shirt? Who said that women's bare skin is more sexual than men's bare skin? Why can't the book urge that we change that instead? The argument is confusing and does nothing but package tradition with a shiny new cover.
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