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They Will Have to Die Now: Mosul and the Fall of the Caliphate
A searing narrative of the Battle of Mosul, described by the Pentagon as “the most significant urban combat since World War II.”
In this masterpiece of war journalism based on months of frontline reporting, National Magazine Award winner James Verini describes the climactic battle in the struggle against the Islamic State. Focusing on two brothers from Mosul and their families, a charismatic Iraqi major who marched north from Baghdad to seize the city with his troops, rowdy Kurdish militiamen, and a hard-bitten American sergeant, Verini describes a war for the soul of a country, a war over and for history.
Seeing the battle in a larger, centuries-long sweep, he connects the bloody-minded philosophy of the Islamic State with the ancient Assyrians who founded Mosul. He also confronts the ways that the American invasion of Iraq not only deformed that country, but also changed America like no conflict since Vietnam.
In this masterpiece of war journalism based on months of frontline reporting, National Magazine Award winner James Verini describes the climactic battle in the struggle against the Islamic State. Focusing on two brothers from Mosul and their families, a charismatic Iraqi major who marched north from Baghdad to seize the city with his troops, rowdy Kurdish militiamen, and a hard-bitten American sergeant, Verini describes a war for the soul of a country, a war over and for history.
Seeing the battle in a larger, centuries-long sweep, he connects the bloody-minded philosophy of the Islamic State with the ancient Assyrians who founded Mosul. He also confronts the ways that the American invasion of Iraq not only deformed that country, but also changed America like no conflict since Vietnam.
304 pages, Hardcover
First published September 17, 2019
89 people are currently reading
2308 people want to read
About the author
James Verini
6 books25 followersThe winner of a National Magazine Award and a George Polk Award, James Verini is a frequent contributor to the New York Times Magazine and The New Yorker, and is a National Geographic staff writer.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 89 reviews
December 9, 2024
As far as I could see, what knowledge the younger soldiers did have of Mosul and its history came from their cellphones, Facebook prophecies and WhatsApp conspiracy threads.
Ultimately this was more fascinating than harrowing, which likely suggests something blithe about my sense of self. The author whose first major story was the attacks on the World Trade Center in 2001 didn't go to cover Iraq during the 2003 invasion, citing fear. He did cover various African conflicts in the interim and then elected to face his guilt and terror by covering one of the largest urban conflicts since the Second World War at Berlin or Stalingrad by going back (and back and back) to cover the reclamation in 2016. A balance is plumbed and the author's prose is sometimes limited by self-awareness. Yet it all links back to a fact: this hell on earth in Mesopotamia was wrought by the 2003 Coalition of the Willing.
Almost every Iraqi soldier I’d met claimed to be eagerly awaiting the tenure of the newly elected Donald Trump. Some hoped he would attack the Islamic State with more obvious brutality than Barack Obama had, others that he would go after Iran, others Saudi Arabia. (Trump had pledged to do all three.)
Millenarianism is curious concept. I find much of it in the analgesic optimism of the 2003 Yankee Neo-Conservatism and again much in the medieval minded apocalypse of Daesh.
It is just the certainty of it all.
Epistemology is a struggle, not an Amazon shopping cart.
Ultimately this was more fascinating than harrowing, which likely suggests something blithe about my sense of self. The author whose first major story was the attacks on the World Trade Center in 2001 didn't go to cover Iraq during the 2003 invasion, citing fear. He did cover various African conflicts in the interim and then elected to face his guilt and terror by covering one of the largest urban conflicts since the Second World War at Berlin or Stalingrad by going back (and back and back) to cover the reclamation in 2016. A balance is plumbed and the author's prose is sometimes limited by self-awareness. Yet it all links back to a fact: this hell on earth in Mesopotamia was wrought by the 2003 Coalition of the Willing.
Almost every Iraqi soldier I’d met claimed to be eagerly awaiting the tenure of the newly elected Donald Trump. Some hoped he would attack the Islamic State with more obvious brutality than Barack Obama had, others that he would go after Iran, others Saudi Arabia. (Trump had pledged to do all three.)
Millenarianism is curious concept. I find much of it in the analgesic optimism of the 2003 Yankee Neo-Conservatism and again much in the medieval minded apocalypse of Daesh.
It is just the certainty of it all.
Epistemology is a struggle, not an Amazon shopping cart.
September 9, 2019
I'm having a hard time beginning my review because this book is so much more than just the fight for Mosul. How the coalition forces worked to retake the city from the Islamic State is covered. The tragedies of the death and destruction is covered. But perhaps the greatest information this reporter gives us is the culture of the people who are fighting this war.
Learning from a first hand account how air strikes are called in, how the military is organized & commanded and the troops on the ground's actions are fascinating and sometimes disturbing. It's easy to judge and review war time actions with seemingly moral black & white standards when you're not an actual participant. Verini tries to bring the reader inside the noise and commotion of battle to show how actions and behaviors are not so easy to rebuke or commend. I feel he really illustrates the "fog of war" well in this book.
Journalists are not generally welcome in the high command centers of war. It's easy to understand why when you glimpse the political forces behind the armies. Put into the tough decision making role of a general, I wouldn't want to have my actions reviewed when the consequences are not easily controlled and often manipulated so that the truth can never fully be known. The author does a superb job of showing the personal and political sides of the military leaders without casting judgment.
Perhaps the greatest part of this book is the culture and history of the region. Being the birthplace of much of civilization, Iraq's history goes deep and it is amazing how current leaders still draw on figures from thousands of years ago. Understanding why the Islamic State was able to draw so many people to its cause is important. By highlighting one family's role in Daesh (the name given the Islamic State) we can comprehend a little better why people are indifferent and hostile to the ruling governments. In my opinion, this is probably the most important part of this book and it is interwoven with the other two subjects expertly.
The content of this book is not suitable for children, but the reality of the war on terror in our current world would lend me to recommend this to older teens who are capable readers and thinkers. There are a few expletives and several descriptions of death which are not graphic, but still troubling, so giving this to impressionable readers has to be accompanied by a discussion or two about what they will read and then follow up about what they read.
* I received this advanced copy book as a Goodreads giveaway *
Learning from a first hand account how air strikes are called in, how the military is organized & commanded and the troops on the ground's actions are fascinating and sometimes disturbing. It's easy to judge and review war time actions with seemingly moral black & white standards when you're not an actual participant. Verini tries to bring the reader inside the noise and commotion of battle to show how actions and behaviors are not so easy to rebuke or commend. I feel he really illustrates the "fog of war" well in this book.
Journalists are not generally welcome in the high command centers of war. It's easy to understand why when you glimpse the political forces behind the armies. Put into the tough decision making role of a general, I wouldn't want to have my actions reviewed when the consequences are not easily controlled and often manipulated so that the truth can never fully be known. The author does a superb job of showing the personal and political sides of the military leaders without casting judgment.
Perhaps the greatest part of this book is the culture and history of the region. Being the birthplace of much of civilization, Iraq's history goes deep and it is amazing how current leaders still draw on figures from thousands of years ago. Understanding why the Islamic State was able to draw so many people to its cause is important. By highlighting one family's role in Daesh (the name given the Islamic State) we can comprehend a little better why people are indifferent and hostile to the ruling governments. In my opinion, this is probably the most important part of this book and it is interwoven with the other two subjects expertly.
The content of this book is not suitable for children, but the reality of the war on terror in our current world would lend me to recommend this to older teens who are capable readers and thinkers. There are a few expletives and several descriptions of death which are not graphic, but still troubling, so giving this to impressionable readers has to be accompanied by a discussion or two about what they will read and then follow up about what they read.
* I received this advanced copy book as a Goodreads giveaway *
August 31, 2019
I received an advance copy through Goodreads First Reads and am most grateful for the opportunity.
This is a very interesting and emotionally moving story that explores Mosul (and the surrounding region's) history of being at the periphery of conquests for various conquerors and empires throughout the centuries. While on the one hand showing the nasty and hypocritical side of ISIS, the book also shows the humanity of those who came to see it as a hope for a better future, after the tensions with the U.S. boiled to a breaking point. We see the fragility of places like Mosul that are at the borders of conquering empires, forcing them to endure one conquest after the next. And we see the challenges lying ahead after the retaking of Mosul, without entirely giving up on hope.
Overall, it was a good read, but I do feel that the book's blending of memoir and history makes the narrative a little tricky to keep track of. The writer's own experiences add important human elements to the mix, but I still feel that this led to the story jumping back and forth between different points in time, which was sometimes disjointing.
There are a couple other areas for improvement. Despite the fair level of historical narrative in the book, the author never really cites the sources aside from a brief reference to various scholars in his notes at the back of the book; it really should have a proper bibliography for reference. Also, given that a lot of the narrative has to do with how Mosul's location has made it a prime target for various conquerors, there should have been maps of the region, including details on the movements of the armies.
Still, this is a pretty satisfying read, and this is only the advance copy; I expect the final product will be even better.
This is a very interesting and emotionally moving story that explores Mosul (and the surrounding region's) history of being at the periphery of conquests for various conquerors and empires throughout the centuries. While on the one hand showing the nasty and hypocritical side of ISIS, the book also shows the humanity of those who came to see it as a hope for a better future, after the tensions with the U.S. boiled to a breaking point. We see the fragility of places like Mosul that are at the borders of conquering empires, forcing them to endure one conquest after the next. And we see the challenges lying ahead after the retaking of Mosul, without entirely giving up on hope.
Overall, it was a good read, but I do feel that the book's blending of memoir and history makes the narrative a little tricky to keep track of. The writer's own experiences add important human elements to the mix, but I still feel that this led to the story jumping back and forth between different points in time, which was sometimes disjointing.
There are a couple other areas for improvement. Despite the fair level of historical narrative in the book, the author never really cites the sources aside from a brief reference to various scholars in his notes at the back of the book; it really should have a proper bibliography for reference. Also, given that a lot of the narrative has to do with how Mosul's location has made it a prime target for various conquerors, there should have been maps of the region, including details on the movements of the armies.
Still, this is a pretty satisfying read, and this is only the advance copy; I expect the final product will be even better.
November 20, 2019
I made it about half-way through this book, and just couldn't continue. There is a lot of great reporting and important information, but I found it hard to follow the story line. I felt like I was missing too much context and background information to really understand what the author was talking about. I was really excited to pick up this book and finally have a better understanding of what is going on in the Middle East, but instead I ended up more confused and frustrated by the wall of dense information I couldn't seem to understand. Maybe I will give this book another try when I have more time to take notes and look up the context and background I will need to better understand the book.
October 3, 2022
Excellent book that looks at the climactic battle for Mosul in 2016-2017. This was the Islamic State's last major city, and Verini does a great job giving you a sense of the human experience of the battle, including the perspectives of Iraqi soldiers and civilians, some Iraqis who had relatives who joined IS, American soldiers, and others. He's a vivid and empathetic writer who also captures the insanity of this war, the utter death cult-ness of IS, and its weird mix of postmodern propagandizing and pre-modern theologizing. It's not a systematic history of IS or the US-led war against it but more of an account of how real people experienced this battle. Definitely belongs up there with some of the best war journalism of the long U.S. experience in Iraq; readers of Dexter Filkins will find Verini's style to be similar, especially the emphasis on the bizarre and absurd.
December 9, 2019
An eyewitness account of the retaking of Mosul from the Islamic State in 2016, along with background material on the history of the region. James Verini was embedded with the Iraqi army's Counter-Terrorism Service and saw it all up close, dodging bullets along with the combatants. This is a vivid look at the fall of ISIS and, ultimately, the appalling cost to Iraq of the American invasion of 2003 and the succeeding decade and a half of war.
He takes on a number of important questions: How did a group of insurgents emerging from the chaotic Iraqi insurrection morph into a power capable of holding large parts of Iraq and Syria and setting up a quasi-functional state? What accounts for the extravagant cruelty of this medieval death cult? Why did it initially appeal to large sectors of the Iraqi population? And how did the post-invasion Iraqi military, first disbanded and then remolded by the U.S., recover from its initial defeats to retake Mosul and defeat the Caliphate?
Verini did more than just talk to the generals and the front-line fighters; he spent time with the ordinary Iraqis in the refugee camps who first welcomed, then turned against the jihadis. The dialogue is rendered in lively colloquial English, though apparently Verini worked through translators transcribing recorded interviews. The depiction of the suffering of the civilian population of Iraq, material and psychological, is poignant. The historical passages, in anecdotal rather than scholarly style, are illuminating. Verini is frank about the role of the U.S. in the Iraqi disaster and the complex feelings of Iraqis toward Americans.
The Caliphate is gone, but there is no happy ending for Iraq. The book is disturbing, moving and riveting.
He takes on a number of important questions: How did a group of insurgents emerging from the chaotic Iraqi insurrection morph into a power capable of holding large parts of Iraq and Syria and setting up a quasi-functional state? What accounts for the extravagant cruelty of this medieval death cult? Why did it initially appeal to large sectors of the Iraqi population? And how did the post-invasion Iraqi military, first disbanded and then remolded by the U.S., recover from its initial defeats to retake Mosul and defeat the Caliphate?
Verini did more than just talk to the generals and the front-line fighters; he spent time with the ordinary Iraqis in the refugee camps who first welcomed, then turned against the jihadis. The dialogue is rendered in lively colloquial English, though apparently Verini worked through translators transcribing recorded interviews. The depiction of the suffering of the civilian population of Iraq, material and psychological, is poignant. The historical passages, in anecdotal rather than scholarly style, are illuminating. Verini is frank about the role of the U.S. in the Iraqi disaster and the complex feelings of Iraqis toward Americans.
The Caliphate is gone, but there is no happy ending for Iraq. The book is disturbing, moving and riveting.
July 11, 2022
A great book of a horror story.
February 6, 2020
I listened to an audiobook version. I initially thought it would get a lot more into the tactical plans for the retaking of the city and the battle in general. Not to say it wasnt covered, but for a battle that lasted ten months was a bit skirted over.
That being said I was surprised by the in depth analysis on the rise and thought process of ISIS, the history of the region, and the dialogue. Having spent time in that part of the world myself the conversations seem very authentic, as is the description of the cultural views in terms of outlook on life, family, etc. The pluses I was not expecting made up for the lack of detailed street fighting.
That being said I was surprised by the in depth analysis on the rise and thought process of ISIS, the history of the region, and the dialogue. Having spent time in that part of the world myself the conversations seem very authentic, as is the description of the cultural views in terms of outlook on life, family, etc. The pluses I was not expecting made up for the lack of detailed street fighting.
February 20, 2020
This very engaging, poignant and sometimes tragic account is written from a perspective rarely revealed. As the inside cover states, this is "the story of what happened after most Americans stopped paying attention to Iraq." Much more than the standard military journalism, this comprehensive volume encompasses a rich variety of elements and source. Perhaps its most valuable contribution is that it is largely written from the perspective of those on the ground, who experienced and witnessed the aftermath of the war, after the last stand of the jihadists in the city of Mosul. The title of the book, in fact, was a quote by a general, Masoud Barzani, the president of the Kurdish Regional Government and son of a revolutionary who fought to establish the Iraqi Kurdish Republic, who stated to the author: "Daesh has no escape... They will have to die now,"referring to their last stand in the city, and, ultimately, their defeat.
My one issue with the book was that the organization was a bit haphazard. It's equal part journalism and history, recounting not only the current situation, but also the very rich and storied history of the region now termed "Iraq," which is certainly a modern invention. As Verini noted, "the more you learn about the history of Iraq, the more plausible the conspiracies become." In short, Gertrude Bell noted "you're flying in the face of four millennia of history if you try to draw a line around Iraq and call it a political entity." A creation of the British after WWI, who recognized that the way forward was petroleum, a pipeline was built which Time magazine acknowledged was "the carotid artery of the British Empire" made it a vital region, for its oil wealth.
Bell likewise wrote, insightfully, that "hatred and the lust of slaughter weigh like inherited evils, transmitted (who can say?) through all the varying generations of conquerors since the savage might of the Assyrian empire set its stamp on the land... The organization of discord is carried to a high pitch of perfection in Mosul. The town is full of bravos who live by outrage, and live well. whenever the unruly magnates wish to create a disturbance, they pass a gratuity to these ruffians."
The perspective of the people who lived there: one told him, "I once saw an American analyst quoted in a post on the Internet. He said the Americans could liberate Mosul in twenty-four hours if they really wanted to... Do you really think America, with all its technology and strategy, with all its strength, that it couldn't defeat the Islamic State in a day if it wished?" ... I told him that I thought the Islamic State was a very clever insurgency and that any military would struggle against it. "Not the American Military! How was it the Islamic State was even able to enter Iraq? How was it they were able to expand as they did? An American satellite can reveal what's inside our stomach. They couldn't see this?"
The Islamic State would be open to all, not just the elect... Only the barest knowledge of the Koran was required, and no knowledge of Arabic, nor of history. On the contrary, the less knowledge of history the better. History until the Caliphate was a lie. You were encouraged to celebrate not just your piety but your individuality, to go online and tell your personal story of awakening and redemption. More than the propaganda coming out of the al-Hayat Media Center, more than the snuff films, it was these stories that brought to the Islamic State new citizens.
The luster didn't last long. As the author noted, fanaticism intensified until it had reached a fever pitch, in very short order: "In other words, if you don't kill your neighbor on the strength of the barest suspicion of impiety, you ought to be killed yourself. To be a true Muslim, you must kill, kill not just infidels, not just apostates, but kill other Muslims, kill any Muslim whom you feel is a lesser Muslim than yourself. This is Paris 1794. This is the Moscow of 1937. Berlin 1945. Seeing this poster, you realize that, much more than homicidal, the Islamic State was suicidal.
Uncanny acumen and a thorough grasp of the reality of the situation and the mentality of those perpetrating it: "We can't know what each member really believes, but if its most plangent rhetoricians are to be taken at their word, they live in constant expectation of the end of the world. they understand their mission to be to build the Islamic State precisely that it might be destroyed, *along with everything else.* And, sadly, we must take them at their word, at least on this point, because it is only with it that their insistence on killing and torture and destruction, that the death cult at the core of the Islamic State, can be fully understood. Baghdadi is said to be steeped in the apocalyptic literature of Islam... According to some of those texts it is also accompanied by God's destruction of cities, specifically of beautiful architecture, more specifically of beautiful places of worship, and most importantly mosques..."
Yet a bloodlust as insatiable as his reaches further back still, you sense. you sense that for Baghdadi, as for the Assyrian kings, war didn't seem to sow chaos, as it does for the rest of us, but instead seemed to impose order. You sense he saw violence as ritual, a means by which he communicated with the divine, connected reality to myth, past to present, man to God. he tortured with such aplomb, with such attention, such invention, such *care*, you can't help sense that, like Ashurbanipal, Baghdadi looked on torture as a favor, considering dismemberment and stoning and flaying and beheading - especially beheading - acts not of hate, or not just of hate, but of grace. I behead Moslawis to make them as pious as myself. I behead you because I love you.
In the 1960s, Jerry Rubin said that to be a revolutionary, you needed a color television. The Islamic State updated this: to be a jihadi, you needed a smartphone. You impose future upon past, collapse time, by gorging on an eternal digital present... The jihadi would roll the clock back by kicking it forward.
Life in the Islamic State was boring. The predictable and irreducible fact of a terroristic theocracy, the fact that the jihadis never mentioned in their promotional materials, was boredom, mind-emptying, rage-inducing, afterlife-inviting boredom. Between the bouts of violence, and prayer and painting things black, there was absolutely nothing to do.
** Their goals of reversing a century of colonialism and rule by foreign powers and their puppets may be laudable, in a sense, and resonated with many people in the areas they ultimately consumed, but the worst elements became so fanatic that their ends became antithetical to the notion of civilization itself: everything that makes a group or culture what they are is forbidden in this nihilistic ideology: art, music, science, history, literature, poetry, dance, and the freedom to explore it, was discouraged, or even outright banned. Fighting for the sake of fighting can never endure: as many have noted, probably since the earliest beginnings of human civilization, a soldier should fight not because of what's in front of them, but because of what's behind them: their culture, their homes, their families, and the expressions of those things that ultimately give life meaning. The fight is lost when one forgets what it is they're actually fighting for.
My one issue with the book was that the organization was a bit haphazard. It's equal part journalism and history, recounting not only the current situation, but also the very rich and storied history of the region now termed "Iraq," which is certainly a modern invention. As Verini noted, "the more you learn about the history of Iraq, the more plausible the conspiracies become." In short, Gertrude Bell noted "you're flying in the face of four millennia of history if you try to draw a line around Iraq and call it a political entity." A creation of the British after WWI, who recognized that the way forward was petroleum, a pipeline was built which Time magazine acknowledged was "the carotid artery of the British Empire" made it a vital region, for its oil wealth.
Bell likewise wrote, insightfully, that "hatred and the lust of slaughter weigh like inherited evils, transmitted (who can say?) through all the varying generations of conquerors since the savage might of the Assyrian empire set its stamp on the land... The organization of discord is carried to a high pitch of perfection in Mosul. The town is full of bravos who live by outrage, and live well. whenever the unruly magnates wish to create a disturbance, they pass a gratuity to these ruffians."
The perspective of the people who lived there: one told him, "I once saw an American analyst quoted in a post on the Internet. He said the Americans could liberate Mosul in twenty-four hours if they really wanted to... Do you really think America, with all its technology and strategy, with all its strength, that it couldn't defeat the Islamic State in a day if it wished?" ... I told him that I thought the Islamic State was a very clever insurgency and that any military would struggle against it. "Not the American Military! How was it the Islamic State was even able to enter Iraq? How was it they were able to expand as they did? An American satellite can reveal what's inside our stomach. They couldn't see this?"
The Islamic State would be open to all, not just the elect... Only the barest knowledge of the Koran was required, and no knowledge of Arabic, nor of history. On the contrary, the less knowledge of history the better. History until the Caliphate was a lie. You were encouraged to celebrate not just your piety but your individuality, to go online and tell your personal story of awakening and redemption. More than the propaganda coming out of the al-Hayat Media Center, more than the snuff films, it was these stories that brought to the Islamic State new citizens.
The luster didn't last long. As the author noted, fanaticism intensified until it had reached a fever pitch, in very short order: "In other words, if you don't kill your neighbor on the strength of the barest suspicion of impiety, you ought to be killed yourself. To be a true Muslim, you must kill, kill not just infidels, not just apostates, but kill other Muslims, kill any Muslim whom you feel is a lesser Muslim than yourself. This is Paris 1794. This is the Moscow of 1937. Berlin 1945. Seeing this poster, you realize that, much more than homicidal, the Islamic State was suicidal.
Uncanny acumen and a thorough grasp of the reality of the situation and the mentality of those perpetrating it: "We can't know what each member really believes, but if its most plangent rhetoricians are to be taken at their word, they live in constant expectation of the end of the world. they understand their mission to be to build the Islamic State precisely that it might be destroyed, *along with everything else.* And, sadly, we must take them at their word, at least on this point, because it is only with it that their insistence on killing and torture and destruction, that the death cult at the core of the Islamic State, can be fully understood. Baghdadi is said to be steeped in the apocalyptic literature of Islam... According to some of those texts it is also accompanied by God's destruction of cities, specifically of beautiful architecture, more specifically of beautiful places of worship, and most importantly mosques..."
Yet a bloodlust as insatiable as his reaches further back still, you sense. you sense that for Baghdadi, as for the Assyrian kings, war didn't seem to sow chaos, as it does for the rest of us, but instead seemed to impose order. You sense he saw violence as ritual, a means by which he communicated with the divine, connected reality to myth, past to present, man to God. he tortured with such aplomb, with such attention, such invention, such *care*, you can't help sense that, like Ashurbanipal, Baghdadi looked on torture as a favor, considering dismemberment and stoning and flaying and beheading - especially beheading - acts not of hate, or not just of hate, but of grace. I behead Moslawis to make them as pious as myself. I behead you because I love you.
In the 1960s, Jerry Rubin said that to be a revolutionary, you needed a color television. The Islamic State updated this: to be a jihadi, you needed a smartphone. You impose future upon past, collapse time, by gorging on an eternal digital present... The jihadi would roll the clock back by kicking it forward.
Life in the Islamic State was boring. The predictable and irreducible fact of a terroristic theocracy, the fact that the jihadis never mentioned in their promotional materials, was boredom, mind-emptying, rage-inducing, afterlife-inviting boredom. Between the bouts of violence, and prayer and painting things black, there was absolutely nothing to do.
** Their goals of reversing a century of colonialism and rule by foreign powers and their puppets may be laudable, in a sense, and resonated with many people in the areas they ultimately consumed, but the worst elements became so fanatic that their ends became antithetical to the notion of civilization itself: everything that makes a group or culture what they are is forbidden in this nihilistic ideology: art, music, science, history, literature, poetry, dance, and the freedom to explore it, was discouraged, or even outright banned. Fighting for the sake of fighting can never endure: as many have noted, probably since the earliest beginnings of human civilization, a soldier should fight not because of what's in front of them, but because of what's behind them: their culture, their homes, their families, and the expressions of those things that ultimately give life meaning. The fight is lost when one forgets what it is they're actually fighting for.
December 19, 2024
The author is a good journalist and a good writer. He provides some context with the Assyrian empire and goes into the theology of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, which is interesting, but the rest of the book lacks structure. He meets one person with a story after another, following very few of them in great detail and through the whole book. It was good but a little disappointing because it was so disjointed but it was still a good book with a lot to say.
April 27, 2020
I was expecting a military analysis of the taking of Mosul. This is more a collection of anecdotes about citizens of that city during the time in which it changed hands between ISIS and US forces. It is obviously interesting and heart wrenching. It is also a collection of history of the city as well as anecdotes.
Read
February 20, 2020Two things I understand: 1) Never trust anyone who says the conflict in Iraq is a simple one, and 2) Passionate, on-the-ground journalism is a powerful thing. This book is *stunningly* good and important and James Verini might just be the bravest man alive.
August 22, 2024
I have so much to say about this book
This book goes beyond Mosul; Verini describes urban combat but also delves into history and traces the path of several Moslawi families. I was moved by the fact that the book drew on ancient Mesopotamian history, the stories of various Iraqi peoples and factions (Shia, Sunni, Kurd, Yazidi, Christian), and a very American style of editorializing, which helped add a charming and familiar touch to some of the book (Verini calls ancient Ninevites' obsession with beheading "the head thing.") It was also an incredibly bleak book, that somehow gets more depressing as the Coalition (the good guys - Iraq, America, et al) advance against ISIL, or Daesh. Depictions of death are sparse in the book but always graphic. Verini has a talent for binding American history to Iraq in the book, which alone makes it worth the read. One haunting portion compares an ISIL propaganda photograph of a homosexual man being pushed off a roof to his death with the famous Falling Man photograph from 9/11. Verini sometimes editorializes a little too much, but in his interview/retelling portions he is flawless. He neither dismisses Moslawis' paranoia nor gives them undue credence (in one example, a Moslawi man describes ISIL as a conspiracy by Turkey, and Israel, and America, and Iran, and so on and so forth; Verini does not push back in the conversation but adds important context in his notes).
TLDR haunting read. Helps to have light background on Iraqi history and demographics (i.e. knowing who the Yazidis are, or what ancient Assyria is). Minor qualm with the frustrating syntax in some sections
This book goes beyond Mosul; Verini describes urban combat but also delves into history and traces the path of several Moslawi families. I was moved by the fact that the book drew on ancient Mesopotamian history, the stories of various Iraqi peoples and factions (Shia, Sunni, Kurd, Yazidi, Christian), and a very American style of editorializing, which helped add a charming and familiar touch to some of the book (Verini calls ancient Ninevites' obsession with beheading "the head thing.") It was also an incredibly bleak book, that somehow gets more depressing as the Coalition (the good guys - Iraq, America, et al) advance against ISIL, or Daesh. Depictions of death are sparse in the book but always graphic. Verini has a talent for binding American history to Iraq in the book, which alone makes it worth the read. One haunting portion compares an ISIL propaganda photograph of a homosexual man being pushed off a roof to his death with the famous Falling Man photograph from 9/11. Verini sometimes editorializes a little too much, but in his interview/retelling portions he is flawless. He neither dismisses Moslawis' paranoia nor gives them undue credence (in one example, a Moslawi man describes ISIL as a conspiracy by Turkey, and Israel, and America, and Iran, and so on and so forth; Verini does not push back in the conversation but adds important context in his notes).
TLDR haunting read. Helps to have light background on Iraqi history and demographics (i.e. knowing who the Yazidis are, or what ancient Assyria is). Minor qualm with the frustrating syntax in some sections
April 10, 2021
Not bad actually, and well paced, but I didn't feel I learned much...
August 25, 2019
Excellent book. Perfectly balanced explaining the history, religious aspects, modern day battles and stories of actual people and their struggle for survival. I would have liked some pictures of some of the people or areas, or perhaps a few maps. Maybe they will put those in the finished copy.
June 6, 2022
سيتحتم عليهم الموت الآن - جيمس فيريني
📌الكتاب هو اول كتاب يتحدث عن معركة الموصل و تجربة الكاتب في مرافقة القوات المحررة للموصل منذ بدء العمليات و حتى انتهاءها ، فينقل لنا مشاهداته لحجم المأساة ، احاديثه مع الجنود و القادة ، و قد اختار التحدث عن عائلتين موصليتين لأخوين انتقلوا الى مخيمات النازحين ، و ان أبناء هذه العوائل هم دواعش و ان اباء هذه العوائل اخفوا عنه و نكروا صلة ابناؤهم بداعش .
📌لقد لقي ما ينوف على عشرين ألف من القوات العراقية حتفهم منذ أن بدأت الدولة الاسلامية " داعش " بإحتلال الأراضي في العراق في الأيام الأولى من العام 2014 بالإضافة إلى القتلى في صفوف الجيش، قضى ما يقارب الثلاثين ألفاً من المدنيين العراقيين نحبهـم في الحرب ضد الدولة الإسلامية التي احتلت في أوج قوتها معظم شـالي شرقي العراق .
📌أن الحقيقة تختلط بالإشاعة في زمن الحرب . و في العراق تتخلل نظريات المؤلمرة التاريخ على الدوام .
تكمن المشكلة في أنه كلما تعلمت المزيد عن تاريخ العراق ، كلما بدت نظريات المؤامرة أكثر قبولاً .
📌احتفظ سايكس بالأسوأ للموصل التي وصفها بأنها «عش الغباء والفساد والرذيلة والفوضى» والتي تقمص شكائها كل صورة نمطية شرقية سطحية، وأن أهلها «فصيحو اللسان، وماكرون، وانفعاليون، وجبناء، وعلى أهبة الاستعداد للشعب، والذبح في سبيل التطرف طالما لا يحدق بهم اي خطر .
📌ابتدأت الدولة الإسلامية بالفساد وانتهت به. لربما كان البغدادي واقعياً ولربما كان من رواد الألفية، ولربما كان من كليها، ولكنه كان لصاً بما لا يقبل الشك. مكنه دستوره في الموصل إلى جانب كل أحاديثه عن العدالة والمساواة من وضع يده على كل الأموال العامة. وبالفعل، سرقت 425 مليون دولار من البنك المركزي في الموصل طبقا لتقرير للأمم المتحدة .
📌علم الجميع، بمن فيهم غير المدخنين، أن الجهاديين كانوا يبيعون السجائر سرا. كانـوا يبيعون نوعاً يحمل علامة تجارية أرمينية تسمى (أكتار) تهرب من تركيا. كانت سجائر سيئة للغاية، ولكنها كانت الوحيـدة المتوفرة. ثم تغير اسمها من (أكتـار) إلى (داعـشي). يمكنك أن تشتري صندوقاً كاملاً منها من الشرطي الديني نظير راتب شهر كامل أو ما يزيد، وهو نفسه الذي يمكنه أن يعتقلك غداً لتدخينها.
📌استمرت معركة استعادة الموصل أشهراً عشرة بعد أن كان من المفترض أن تستغرق من أربعة إلى ستة أشهر. قتل في أثنائها 1200 جندياً عراقياً وجرح 6000 آلاف طبقاً لإحصاءات وزارة الدفاع الأمريكية. ولن يعرف أحد أبداً أعداد المدنيين الذين قضوا، ولكن العـدد كان بالآلاف بالتأكيد .
التقييم 5/4
#اقرا_وياية
Inst@A.k__89
2022/6/6
📌الكتاب هو اول كتاب يتحدث عن معركة الموصل و تجربة الكاتب في مرافقة القوات المحررة للموصل منذ بدء العمليات و حتى انتهاءها ، فينقل لنا مشاهداته لحجم المأساة ، احاديثه مع الجنود و القادة ، و قد اختار التحدث عن عائلتين موصليتين لأخوين انتقلوا الى مخيمات النازحين ، و ان أبناء هذه العوائل هم دواعش و ان اباء هذه العوائل اخفوا عنه و نكروا صلة ابناؤهم بداعش .
📌لقد لقي ما ينوف على عشرين ألف من القوات العراقية حتفهم منذ أن بدأت الدولة الاسلامية " داعش " بإحتلال الأراضي في العراق في الأيام الأولى من العام 2014 بالإضافة إلى القتلى في صفوف الجيش، قضى ما يقارب الثلاثين ألفاً من المدنيين العراقيين نحبهـم في الحرب ضد الدولة الإسلامية التي احتلت في أوج قوتها معظم شـالي شرقي العراق .
📌أن الحقيقة تختلط بالإشاعة في زمن الحرب . و في العراق تتخلل نظريات المؤلمرة التاريخ على الدوام .
تكمن المشكلة في أنه كلما تعلمت المزيد عن تاريخ العراق ، كلما بدت نظريات المؤامرة أكثر قبولاً .
📌احتفظ سايكس بالأسوأ للموصل التي وصفها بأنها «عش الغباء والفساد والرذيلة والفوضى» والتي تقمص شكائها كل صورة نمطية شرقية سطحية، وأن أهلها «فصيحو اللسان، وماكرون، وانفعاليون، وجبناء، وعلى أهبة الاستعداد للشعب، والذبح في سبيل التطرف طالما لا يحدق بهم اي خطر .
📌ابتدأت الدولة الإسلامية بالفساد وانتهت به. لربما كان البغدادي واقعياً ولربما كان من رواد الألفية، ولربما كان من كليها، ولكنه كان لصاً بما لا يقبل الشك. مكنه دستوره في الموصل إلى جانب كل أحاديثه عن العدالة والمساواة من وضع يده على كل الأموال العامة. وبالفعل، سرقت 425 مليون دولار من البنك المركزي في الموصل طبقا لتقرير للأمم المتحدة .
📌علم الجميع، بمن فيهم غير المدخنين، أن الجهاديين كانوا يبيعون السجائر سرا. كانـوا يبيعون نوعاً يحمل علامة تجارية أرمينية تسمى (أكتار) تهرب من تركيا. كانت سجائر سيئة للغاية، ولكنها كانت الوحيـدة المتوفرة. ثم تغير اسمها من (أكتـار) إلى (داعـشي). يمكنك أن تشتري صندوقاً كاملاً منها من الشرطي الديني نظير راتب شهر كامل أو ما يزيد، وهو نفسه الذي يمكنه أن يعتقلك غداً لتدخينها.
📌استمرت معركة استعادة الموصل أشهراً عشرة بعد أن كان من المفترض أن تستغرق من أربعة إلى ستة أشهر. قتل في أثنائها 1200 جندياً عراقياً وجرح 6000 آلاف طبقاً لإحصاءات وزارة الدفاع الأمريكية. ولن يعرف أحد أبداً أعداد المدنيين الذين قضوا، ولكن العـدد كان بالآلاف بالتأكيد .
التقييم 5/4
#اقرا_وياية
Inst@A.k__89
2022/6/6
October 23, 2019
I first learned of “They Will Have to Die Now” from hearing James Verini interviewed by Ari Shapiro on NPR a month ago and found him incredibly well-spoken. Having published a novel with Mosul and Isis as its backstory, I was eager to read it, and when I did I was figuratively blown away by the story and the prose. Jonathan Franzen is right; this book is a thing of terrible beauty.
I cannot imagine how harrowing, heart-rending, and puzzling it must have been for James Verini to report from those battlefronts, and how he managed to get Iraqis to talk to him or even simply tolerate his presence, but he succeeded well beyond expectation (or at least mine) to beautifully convey context, locale, character, mood, history, pathos, and all sorts of ironies. Even though most families had lost fathers and sons to Isis, many of whom were noncombatants, the nonchalance and fatalism exhibited by the Iraqi and Kurdish fighters and civilians alike as jihadis bombarded them astounded me. Verini conveys a vivid sense of place as the ancient city (one of the oldest on earth) is bashed into rubble, block by block, and how much privation its residents suffered over the ten-month campaign to eject the Islamists. Many of those who did not die fighting or by summary execution simply melted away to rise up again. Like Darth Vader, they will be back.
I wished his book had been available when I was writing my novel (Turkey Shoot), as its factuality would have grounded my story so much better and his writing style would have inspired me to make my prose more vivid. I am so grateful that he bivouacked in that chaos and lived to tell about it. Everyone who wants to understand what happened in Iraq after the US rent it apart needs to read this scrupulous and well-grounded reportage that reads like a novel. It will make you weep.
I cannot imagine how harrowing, heart-rending, and puzzling it must have been for James Verini to report from those battlefronts, and how he managed to get Iraqis to talk to him or even simply tolerate his presence, but he succeeded well beyond expectation (or at least mine) to beautifully convey context, locale, character, mood, history, pathos, and all sorts of ironies. Even though most families had lost fathers and sons to Isis, many of whom were noncombatants, the nonchalance and fatalism exhibited by the Iraqi and Kurdish fighters and civilians alike as jihadis bombarded them astounded me. Verini conveys a vivid sense of place as the ancient city (one of the oldest on earth) is bashed into rubble, block by block, and how much privation its residents suffered over the ten-month campaign to eject the Islamists. Many of those who did not die fighting or by summary execution simply melted away to rise up again. Like Darth Vader, they will be back.
I wished his book had been available when I was writing my novel (Turkey Shoot), as its factuality would have grounded my story so much better and his writing style would have inspired me to make my prose more vivid. I am so grateful that he bivouacked in that chaos and lived to tell about it. Everyone who wants to understand what happened in Iraq after the US rent it apart needs to read this scrupulous and well-grounded reportage that reads like a novel. It will make you weep.
September 2, 2020
Lyrical, coherent, awful.
The coherence is in the history laid out in various chapters. History of Mosul, Iraq, and centuries of conquer, change, and war-torn unrest.
The lyrical is the interstitial descriptions of the offensive on Mosul in its most current form (here, trying to purge the city of ISIS).
One aspect I appreciated was the lack of ending or answers. There is no end, and there are no answers, only history -- past as prologue -- and stories of who is being affected now, and why. This hits with even more impact reading in late 2020 as reports of a reemerging & energized ISIS are showing up on news wires.
There's real people and huge myths and something of the beginning of time as well as the apocalypse here. It's a lot. But the scope is intimate and makes it manageable even if moments (by necessity) repel.
Reading this takes me into a way of being I can hardly begin to fathom, and the mundanity of it with bursts of grief and horror makes it all the harder to take. There's gory violence and banal conversations, brave and pragmatic fighters, harassed and killed and complicit and guilty populace, and the compelling reasons for why it must be have poisoned roots.
Some of Verini's politics and angst comes through and I find that just, and just fine. Why shouldn't it; this is a personal recounting of atrocities made everyday in a place made terrible by them and nonstop conflict. (I found it interesting to juxtapose it with what I'd read in Drift, and How Everything Became War and the Military Became Everything).
I'm going to need to think on this book for a while, and probably come back and read it again much later.
The coherence is in the history laid out in various chapters. History of Mosul, Iraq, and centuries of conquer, change, and war-torn unrest.
The lyrical is the interstitial descriptions of the offensive on Mosul in its most current form (here, trying to purge the city of ISIS).
One aspect I appreciated was the lack of ending or answers. There is no end, and there are no answers, only history -- past as prologue -- and stories of who is being affected now, and why. This hits with even more impact reading in late 2020 as reports of a reemerging & energized ISIS are showing up on news wires.
There's real people and huge myths and something of the beginning of time as well as the apocalypse here. It's a lot. But the scope is intimate and makes it manageable even if moments (by necessity) repel.
Reading this takes me into a way of being I can hardly begin to fathom, and the mundanity of it with bursts of grief and horror makes it all the harder to take. There's gory violence and banal conversations, brave and pragmatic fighters, harassed and killed and complicit and guilty populace, and the compelling reasons for why it must be have poisoned roots.
Some of Verini's politics and angst comes through and I find that just, and just fine. Why shouldn't it; this is a personal recounting of atrocities made everyday in a place made terrible by them and nonstop conflict. (I found it interesting to juxtapose it with what I'd read in Drift, and How Everything Became War and the Military Became Everything).
I'm going to need to think on this book for a while, and probably come back and read it again much later.
January 1, 2022
This was a great book. I loved that the audiobook version was narrated by Ray Porter. He's got a great voice for audiobooks and I can listen and comprehend what's going on in the book at 1.4 or 1.6 times normal speed. Highly recommend books he's narrated for that reason.
This was well written book done by a journalist on the ground there for much of the fighting against the Islamic State. What was interesting and depressing to me were the the wild conspiracy theories that the Iraqis had. They sound like some right wing talking points right off of Fox News here in the states and like nothing has changed in the last 18 years since I was there in Iraq. Iraqis worried about how the US is helping fund the Islamic State and keep the war going or not willing to stop the war when they could stop it tomorrow if they wanted to and things like that.
It's a case of things staying the same no matter how much they change. The truth is that everyone there basically fights against everyone else there at some time or another without a lot of rhyme or reason. No sides are permanent and eventually all alliances end. Verini talked about how Iraqis are very good at forgiving people who have been on the wrong side of a war and moving on and that's because they have to be otherwise they wouldn't have them as allies tomorrow in the next war!
Highly recommend. It was really entertaining, informative, and well written.
This was well written book done by a journalist on the ground there for much of the fighting against the Islamic State. What was interesting and depressing to me were the the wild conspiracy theories that the Iraqis had. They sound like some right wing talking points right off of Fox News here in the states and like nothing has changed in the last 18 years since I was there in Iraq. Iraqis worried about how the US is helping fund the Islamic State and keep the war going or not willing to stop the war when they could stop it tomorrow if they wanted to and things like that.
It's a case of things staying the same no matter how much they change. The truth is that everyone there basically fights against everyone else there at some time or another without a lot of rhyme or reason. No sides are permanent and eventually all alliances end. Verini talked about how Iraqis are very good at forgiving people who have been on the wrong side of a war and moving on and that's because they have to be otherwise they wouldn't have them as allies tomorrow in the next war!
Highly recommend. It was really entertaining, informative, and well written.
October 18, 2019
One of the most interesting themes echoing throughout James Verini's important book on the Battle of Mosul in 2016-2017 and the war efforts against Daesh in Iraq and Syria is that of the collapsing of time. "It's all the same, history and now," one of the Kurdish generals tells Verini toward the end of the book. This schematic allows Verini to create some truly wonderful passages about the Middle Eastern experience of time, which rather forcefully bring to the reader's attention how devastating Daesh's elimination of Middle Eastern art, architecture, history and cultural traditions really is for the communities Daesh has overtaken.
However, this has the paradoxical effect, especially in the book's final chapters, of divorcing jihadism from history. Verini's closing arguments intimate that terrorism in the Middle East is cyclical: intrinsic and unavoidable. This does sit well with me, but I do not want to overlook the rest of this thought-provoking book. His summation of the rise of Saddam Hussein provides a new (if a bit unserious) perspective, and there is a powerful section about how the Iraqi soldiers and civilians view Verini as an American, and how the forgiveness that they extend illustrates the "essence of Iraqi humanity."
Lots to unpack--some of it a bit problematic--but the best "on-the-ground" account of the war against the Islamic State that I've read.
However, this has the paradoxical effect, especially in the book's final chapters, of divorcing jihadism from history. Verini's closing arguments intimate that terrorism in the Middle East is cyclical: intrinsic and unavoidable. This does sit well with me, but I do not want to overlook the rest of this thought-provoking book. His summation of the rise of Saddam Hussein provides a new (if a bit unserious) perspective, and there is a powerful section about how the Iraqi soldiers and civilians view Verini as an American, and how the forgiveness that they extend illustrates the "essence of Iraqi humanity."
Lots to unpack--some of it a bit problematic--but the best "on-the-ground" account of the war against the Islamic State that I've read.
February 6, 2020
An incredible and devastating eyewitness account of the Battle of Mosul, Verini documents the year he spent as a journalist covering the Iraqi troops and their struggle against the Islamic State. From the summer of 2016 through the spring of 2017, Verini spent time with many Iraqis, Moswalis, and other Arabs and Persians as he covers the battle against the Caliphate and their most hardened jihadi extremists. Verini tells the story through his own personal experiences on the frontlines as well as documenting his relationships with various people including two brothers from Mosul and their families, an Iraqi major who taunts the enemy, a battle-hardened American sergeant with a glass eye, and unpredictable Kurdish militiamen. Verini, not only doing his diligence as a journalist covering the battle, but frames the narrative as being the most recent event in Mosul’s centuries-long history with war and bloodshed, how Mosul served as the interaction of violence for so many nations and empires. Verini also documents the impact the American invasion had on Iraq and its devastating effects a decade after with the local population initially supporting the arrival of the ISIS Caliphate.
June 28, 2021
It took me a while to finish this book. Not because it was boring or lacking. On the contrary, it was one of the most engaging books I've ever read. Verini does an excellent job of accounting his time reporting in the thick of it while adding historical timelines and tidbits so the reading can really begin to understand this neverending conflict.
I really like this style of war journalism that draws on the past to make sense of the present.
The reason it took so long is that it's still so recent. For most of my life, if not all, the United States has been involved somehow in the Middle Eastern conflicts. While this book primarily is the Iraqi troops & peoples struggles with reclaiming their land from the terrorists, the US is always there in some capacity. Verini isn't here to tell us whether or not we should still be involved or not. He talks to real people and tries to get their real opinions. After all, these are the people who really have to worry about bombs falling at any point during the day. And for most of them, it's not a black and white issue. It's war. And war is sheer and utter chaos.
I really like this style of war journalism that draws on the past to make sense of the present.
The reason it took so long is that it's still so recent. For most of my life, if not all, the United States has been involved somehow in the Middle Eastern conflicts. While this book primarily is the Iraqi troops & peoples struggles with reclaiming their land from the terrorists, the US is always there in some capacity. Verini isn't here to tell us whether or not we should still be involved or not. He talks to real people and tries to get their real opinions. After all, these are the people who really have to worry about bombs falling at any point during the day. And for most of them, it's not a black and white issue. It's war. And war is sheer and utter chaos.
January 27, 2022
Hard to overstate how much I loved this one. The summary of this book gives off a slightly misleading vibe, it is so much more than just a book on the battle of Mosul. Rather than just being generic military history, a genre I have no real love for, it is a thoughtful examination of the questions around the societal trauma of war and how both Iraq and the United States dealt with the aftermath of the 2003 Iraq war. How do normal people join a group like ISIS? What responsibility does the US have in its spread? How does a country that has spent decades undergoing intercommunal violence repair itself?
The book also doubles as a history of both Iraq and the United States. You can't understand the conflict without unpacking cycles of violence that have gone on for generations. I actually think it is a phenomenal starting point for anyone looking to start learning about Middle Eastern history, as it covers a lot of the key events that shaped the region in the last 30 years.
The military side is indeed fascinating, but mostly because of the human characters at its centers. It does not dwell on battle plans but instead the psyche of soldiers, both high ranking and low.
The book also doubles as a history of both Iraq and the United States. You can't understand the conflict without unpacking cycles of violence that have gone on for generations. I actually think it is a phenomenal starting point for anyone looking to start learning about Middle Eastern history, as it covers a lot of the key events that shaped the region in the last 30 years.
The military side is indeed fascinating, but mostly because of the human characters at its centers. It does not dwell on battle plans but instead the psyche of soldiers, both high ranking and low.
November 11, 2023
James Verini reports from the front lines in the battle of Mosul. It is a report from the modern battlefield of the snake pit of the Middle Eastern wars of the past 50 years. It is gritty, ugly, and somewhat insane. It is warfare where anything goes. Terrorist partner with merchants who co-operate to stay alive and maybe get some advantage with the Isis army after the battle. The Iraq army has questions about its fighters who may desert or not care about winning the battle. The residents of Mosul come and go, back and forth depending on who is in control of their home at the time. Their city has had so many different rulers in the past 50 years, that people there just roll with the flow . No one really likes any army that controls them. They really hate all of them ,so loyalties in battle are shaky at best. It is an insane way to fight a war but fight they do, over and over again. The armies change names and sometimes there is actual peace for a few years before it starts up again.
The book reads like a very long series of newspaper articles about the city of Mosul and it's inhabitants. Verini was imbedded with the Iraqi army and was allowed to report from the front lines. It is a good look at what our soldiers had to deal with for over 20 years in Iraq. It isn't pretty or enjoyable for anyone. Why we continue to do it is a question we should be asking our generals and politicians before we continue to spend any more lives and money fighting peoples that don't mind dying. Killing and war seem to be inbred in them. They are waiting for the day that we tire of the killing and insanity and spending months of fighting and winning cities and territory only to give it back 3 months later.
4 stars for a modern insane war narrative They Will Have To die Now by James Verini.
The book reads like a very long series of newspaper articles about the city of Mosul and it's inhabitants. Verini was imbedded with the Iraqi army and was allowed to report from the front lines. It is a good look at what our soldiers had to deal with for over 20 years in Iraq. It isn't pretty or enjoyable for anyone. Why we continue to do it is a question we should be asking our generals and politicians before we continue to spend any more lives and money fighting peoples that don't mind dying. Killing and war seem to be inbred in them. They are waiting for the day that we tire of the killing and insanity and spending months of fighting and winning cities and territory only to give it back 3 months later.
4 stars for a modern insane war narrative They Will Have To die Now by James Verini.
March 14, 2020
Verini’s reporting of the battle of Mosul (2016-2017) is considerably more than a journalist’s first-hand account of close-up violence and brutality of war, although it does have detailed writing of the sounds and sights of bombs and gunfire, of blood being spilled, lives being lost, and sections of Mosul being erased. Verini provides a context: historical background to the city of Mosul; lines drawn from the American invasion and occupation to this slow-speed battle to retake Mosul from the Islamic State militias; and the background of shifting loyalties and fluid alliances in Iraq's sectarian and political groups.
Verini is not a voyeur of war; he is a thoughtful questioner and critic of what he witnessed in his months in the Mosul region. The reader learns that Iraq defies easy explanations and simple portrayals of current events. My appreciation of Verini’s book is that he avoids quick conclusions about Islamic State’s surge and diminishment, and he is OK as a journalist in not being able to explain the inexplicable.
The book is a good read for anyone who wants to gain a sense of the cloudy, convoluted, complex country of Iraq.
I was curious about how Verini, who doesn't speak Arabic, was to able to report, verbatim, lengthy conversations in Arabic. At the end of the book he explains his use of audio recordings, translators who accompanied him, and other translators who carefully worked for accuracy from Arabic to English. I was impressed. However, I noticed that, in the map in the front of the book, the Arabic names of the locales are incorrectly typed left-to-right. Who made that mistake?
Verini is not a voyeur of war; he is a thoughtful questioner and critic of what he witnessed in his months in the Mosul region. The reader learns that Iraq defies easy explanations and simple portrayals of current events. My appreciation of Verini’s book is that he avoids quick conclusions about Islamic State’s surge and diminishment, and he is OK as a journalist in not being able to explain the inexplicable.
The book is a good read for anyone who wants to gain a sense of the cloudy, convoluted, complex country of Iraq.
I was curious about how Verini, who doesn't speak Arabic, was to able to report, verbatim, lengthy conversations in Arabic. At the end of the book he explains his use of audio recordings, translators who accompanied him, and other translators who carefully worked for accuracy from Arabic to English. I was impressed. However, I noticed that, in the map in the front of the book, the Arabic names of the locales are incorrectly typed left-to-right. Who made that mistake?
August 25, 2023
I went in mentally comparing this book to House to House by David Bellavia, both being books about urban combat in Iraq. But they were very different. Where House to House focussed on Sgt Bellavia and the Army, this book focuses a lot more on refugees who'd lived under and fled Islamic State, the soldiers (both Iraqi army and peshmerga) and alternating between the present and the history of the region. It also, at some points, tries to get into the head of the jihadis.
I liked the alternation and starting way back with the Assyrians was interesting but the fact that the author skipped ahead to the Ottoman period made me think the Assyrian - Caliphate connection was a bit forced but the continua creatio but the idea of a divine command to force the world into a state of order parallel is interesting. Seems like you could've included some of the early Islamic conquests in there to show some more continuity. Could've included the Persian empire too. As it is it just skips over ~2000 years of history to get from Assyria to the Ottomans.
I found the civilian and refugee parts quite interesting, partly to see the impact on everyday people, partly for the hints of how many people cooperated with ISIS at first.
And overall, it was just interesting. It cast a very wide net, talking about the civilians driven out of Mosul, the Iraqi army and peshmerga conquering Mosul from the Caliphate, ISIS sympathizers within the refugees and trying to get within the mindset of the ISIS fighters. It was just interesting, gave me a lot to brood on.
I liked the alternation and starting way back with the Assyrians was interesting but the fact that the author skipped ahead to the Ottoman period made me think the Assyrian - Caliphate connection was a bit forced but the continua creatio but the idea of a divine command to force the world into a state of order parallel is interesting. Seems like you could've included some of the early Islamic conquests in there to show some more continuity. Could've included the Persian empire too. As it is it just skips over ~2000 years of history to get from Assyria to the Ottomans.
I found the civilian and refugee parts quite interesting, partly to see the impact on everyday people, partly for the hints of how many people cooperated with ISIS at first.
And overall, it was just interesting. It cast a very wide net, talking about the civilians driven out of Mosul, the Iraqi army and peshmerga conquering Mosul from the Caliphate, ISIS sympathizers within the refugees and trying to get within the mindset of the ISIS fighters. It was just interesting, gave me a lot to brood on.
September 27, 2019
I got this book as an ARC from a WWNorton Goodreads Giveaway, so thank you guys for this amazing read! I have to say that this book changed my view on the war in Iraq to a totally new perspective and it really clarified the details of the war. I have to say at some times, the book would seem detached and then I would be lost for a few pages or so. Sometimes, I wouldn't quite be able to figure how pieces of information fit together and how it added to the book, but then again, I don't tend to read that much nonfiction. I think it would be definitely be a book that I would reread because it's so complex (in a good way), but I don't think I'm going to reread it anytime soon. To be completely honest, this is not my favorite nonfiction book that I've read, but it definitely is not my least favorite. What made this book unique to me is the fact that James Verini went all the way to Mosul to write this book, and the danger and hardships he went through to write this book. But I have to say, in the end, it really did pay off, because this book felt real. It made you feel like you were Verini right then and there, standing in his shoes. Overall, this was an awesome read! I would definitely recommend people to get this book when it comes out in October!
April 11, 2021
This is the account of the Iraqi forces as they fought to take back the city of Mosul and the surrounding area. The author embeds himself with the Iraqi militia forces and gives a dispassionate look at the soldiers, civilians, and even enemy combatants. Avoiding a birds-eye view that a lot of writers give about conflicts in this part of the world Verini focuses exclusively on the soldiers he is embedded with and the people that he encounters. The benefit of this is a very close look at how people adapt to almost continual war and how the continuous fighting has not only shaped the physical environment but also the expectations and hopes of the people that live in these places. While the overall story cannot help but be bleak, there are some bright spots. This book is not an easy read and if you do not like reading about human cruelty and the terrible things that people can do to each other you may want to give this one a pass. But, If you are interested in the events of the Middle East and how events can have serious unintended consequences you should read this book.
January 21, 2020
An interesting door-to-door street-level fighting account of the ersatz re-taking of Mosul. It provides a war correspondent's one year sketch of Mosul's fall and the pushing Daesh out of Mosul. It is still unclear if they will ascend again. The book explicitly shows that the US/Europe never had, nor have, even a remote foggy understanding of the complex dynamics of current-day Iraq nor the 2,500 years bloody and violent history of conflict in The Levant, going back to Nebuchadnezzar.
The book has no real story arc and is conversational in tone - lots of cigarette smoking convos with soldiers on the move from one blown-out building to the next. The described destruction is total. Verini takes detours down deep rabbit holes in Iraqi history which helps the reader with a multi-textured understanding of the incredible complexities of the region which even the people involved in the conflict don't understand, much less us Americans.
The book has no real story arc and is conversational in tone - lots of cigarette smoking convos with soldiers on the move from one blown-out building to the next. The described destruction is total. Verini takes detours down deep rabbit holes in Iraqi history which helps the reader with a multi-textured understanding of the incredible complexities of the region which even the people involved in the conflict don't understand, much less us Americans.
October 22, 2024
They Will Have to Die Now: Mosul and the Fall of the Caliphate by James Verini comes across a bit like an apologetic testimonial to the Iraqi forces that fought and died against ISIS and the people who suffered under ISIS' rule. There's a profound sense of guilt in the narrative, as Verini feels in some way responsible as an American and duty bound to the narrative he put to paper. Quite a lot of it is profoundly powerful, and well worth engaging with. This is a dark story, but it captures the image of real people, often doing the best they can under very trying conditions. It is also placed within a broader context of history, with some - at least on the Kurdish side - convinced that there is a never ending cycle of war where they will always be the victim of someone else's aggression. And some of the narrative is quite depressing, with Iraqi mismanagement leading to discontent, even after the city of Mosul is liberated. This book is well worth your time.
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