I You We Them: Journeys Beyond Evil: The Desk Killer in History and Today

by Dan Gretton

A WASHINGTON POST NOTABLE WORK OF NON-FICTION A SPECTATOR BOOK OF THE YEAR'Meticulous, clinical and sobering, a shockingly important and incisive book' David OlusogaVast and revelatory, Dan Gretton's I You We Them is an unprecedented study of the perpetrators of crimes against the 'desk killers' who ordered and directed some of the worst atrocities of the modern era. From Albert Speer's complicity in Nazi barbarism to cases of ecocide and the deaths of activists, Gretton shines a light on the figures 'who, by giving orders, use paper or a phone or a computer to kill, instead of a gun.' Over the past twenty years, Gretton has interviewed survivors and perpetrators, and pored over archives and thousands of pages of testimony. His remarkable insight into the psychology of the desk killers is deepened by the intimate journey he travels with his readers.

Genres: Nonfiction, History, True Crime, Psychology, Politics

1069 pages, Kindle Edition

First published November 14, 2019

Reviews

[Em · Rating 3 out of 5]

Well written with some truly haunting sections. I learnt a few things I'd never heard of before, such as Shell's role in human rights abuses. However, I think the message and content of the book were diminished by the style in which it was approached. Perhaps if I had known going in that this was more memoir and one man's ponderings on the Holocaust and other examples of 'desk-killers', I would have responded better, but as it was I grew frustrated with the endless digressions into where the author was, what he ate,where he went travelling, etc. It felt like the perpetrators (the desk-killers) and even the victims of their atrocities were sometimes an afterthought and sometimes lost in all the musings. I did end up skimming to get to the quotes and information, which was incredibly interesting and heartbreaking. I think this book could have been so much more powerful if it had been brutally edited.

[TheBookWarren · Rating 5 out of 5]

It’s not often you find a true treasure by merely shelf perusing these days.. and yet, whisky at readings in Carlton 8-10wks back, I stumbled on this not-so-little non fiction title, that immediately struck me as “right up my very niche & utterly undefinable, alley”..

Turns out, my first instincts were not only true, but edifyingly so!!!

Written in much more of a descriptive style than near any other type of large historical, corporate creed or crime epic. This kind of had more of a memoir feel, and what a refreshing change this proved to be. Not only do you get the captivating content and insight into just how deadly corporation greed aided by the age of “plausible deniability” was and continues to be throughout the 20th & 21st centuries, but you get a whole other sense for whom the author is, why this book is being written & over time you begin to feel a part of the narrative in a methodology that’s altogether unfamiliar in this genre, a true surprise and delight, indeed.

Not for the faint hearted, Dan Gretton’s historical investigation into crimes so aghast in sheer weight of victims, against society & humanity across the world, with perpetrators that range in MO from killing through indecision, gross incompetence, negligence & much more!

A true epic bit of nonfiction, that deserves to be well appraised now and well into the future.

[Cecelia Payn · Rating 4 out of 5]

This book is disturbing on every level. I was introduced to facts of the Holocaust, corporate collusion and historical genocides that I had not been aware of. Therein lies the value in this book.

I found that when the author meandered off, to focus on his own life briefly, it wasn't a distraction as some critics have mentioned. It was necessary so that when we returned to his discussion or exploration of the "desk killer" the title of the book came into play. I found I could identify with each of the pronouns used in the title . That's powerful. The contrast is insightful.

I still do not have a clear understanding of why human beings are capable of "crimes against Humanity" and I believe the writer struggles with that as well. In exploring it in this book he has done well in exposing our ability for cruelty and how similar and capable we are to those "we" would regard as monsters.

[Christopher Vona · Rating 4 out of 5]

I don’t usually write a lot of reviews on here, but I had a lot of thoughts about this work and figured I’d share some impressions. Like a few other readers, I was a bit thrown off by the way the book mixes in large sections of memoir and personal backstory into its professed aim: an exploration of “desk killers,” people whose unquestioning participation in largely bureaucratic activities contributes to atrocities of all kinds. At one point, early on, I was tempted to put the book down. I’m glad I didn’t. The skill of Gretton’s prose kept me tied to the book, even when I wasn’t sure why I was hearing about lengthy hikes or a cottage in the Welsh countryside. And for a patient reader, Gretton draws elaborate connections among all participants in modern society, including himself, and how these connections can make us either ignorant or aware of the harm that everyone participating in our societies commits (or allows, as is more often the case).

Some highlights:
- Gretton’s overview of Albert Speer is some of the most fascinating analysis I’ve ever read. He avoids easy judgments, frankly discussing Speer’s culpability in the Holocaust, while also evaluating his questionable capacity for self reformation.
- The interviews with executives from oil companies who allowed a human rights activist to be executed by a military junta were gripping and show, in modern exactness, the mindset that allows for crimes of this type to occur.
- By the end of this work, some of Gretton’s “digressions” became some of my favorite parts. His remembrances of his father, in particular, touched a nerve for me.

[Rhett Gentile · Rating 5 out of 5]

Brutal, persistent, exhausting and exacting. This is a stone cold sober tour of the unimaginable and the mundane, shot through with flashes of the writer’s own humanity that serve to reinforce the fact (which your mind *cannot* actually comprehend) that these four, five, six, seven digit numbers — 14,000 killed here, 5000 shot in there, 1000000 over four years — every one of those numbers was a life as real and vivid as the author’s, and as yours, with all the connections and highs and lows entailed.

For anyone who is part of an organization, who marshals resources beyond their own hands, who commands energies beyond his own body, this book is a crucial demonstration of the responsibility that you *must* feel, and the things that happen when you allow yourself to forget, or to conveniently not know.

[Paul Jones · Rating 5 out of 5]

The premise is one man’s account of trying to understand how individuals can be actively involved in the systematic murder of millions. The strength of the book comes from the personalisation of the author’s journeys (both actual and metaphorical) developing and evolving his thesis over decades. Interweaving biography with the discussion of atrocities has an effect similar to colourising old film in making historical events seem alive in the here and now. Although the majority of the book is focused on the holocaust, this uncomfortable immediacy is demonstrated clearest with the discussions on the oil industry and Nigeria and with the massacre of Algerians in Paris in 1961. ‘Desk killer’ is the titular term used to define the many individuals who were distant from the actual murders, but necessary for the implementation of the process of genocide. In mostly focusing on the more prominent figures associated with the atrocities (for example Albert Speer, the board of Shell), the book sets them apart from the ordinary reader and prevents the breakdown of the conceptual barriers between ‘us’ and ‘them’ that is necessary to learn from past events. This is not a criticism as this book is a highly readable 1000-page conversation, the importance of which cannot be overstated as it does what all great books do; it asks you to think.

[Aasima · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is a great book challenging us to think about how we view our society and accept its past.

Pros:
1) Fact based analysis - allowing us to think about current society
2) it’s amazing how much can be learnt still on events happened decades ago- the connections that were never made along the history

Cons:
1) sometimes the author just goes into an elaborate dear diary mode. At this point the book doesn’t really come off as an excellent source of critical thinking, it just feels like you want to say why do I care where the author walked and talked and swam ? How does it make anything better?

All in all a good book.

[Niall Crosbee · Rating 4 out of 5]

Mine is a somewhat similar critique to those already posted. The best parts of this book come from the valuable insights and examples of corporate crime with discussion as to the potential reasonings and psychology which allow it to occur.

However, the personal digressions were indeed frustrating, particularly at the beginning of the book (referencing the author’s views on swimming in particular!).

Towards the latter parts of the book, the digressions did become more profound and touching. The efforts, passion, and research shown within the book are certainly enough for a four star rating though. I will be taking away the stories of Ken Saro-Wiwa and Albert Speer in particular.

[Reader · Rating 5 out of 5]

I don't understand all the negative reviews. It is a surprising, ambitious and deeply personal book. Perhaps it is this personal aspect that rubs some readers the wrong way? I however enjoyed this insight into the author's mind/life. It made for a more human read than a simple technical analysis of the facts.

All in all I find it quite the achievement. A delightful - albeit terrifying - read. The juxtaposition of personal stories and factual writing makes for an easier read than were it just a technical analysis of corporate evil.

I applaud the author and recommend the book.

[Leo Robertson · Rating 2 out of 5]

Shockingly disorganised and inappropriately navel-gazing, every 200 pages the book you were trying to read would break through with brief brilliance, before returning to the account of a guy this author met on the bus on the way to visit Auschwitz or whatever the fuck.

I see he has ended “To be continued” with no apparent sign of Book 2 on the horizon and no wonder.

Mate if you couldn’t say it in the first thousand pages…

[Jim · Rating 4 out of 5]

"Collusion between the SS and corporations is not part of the desired narrative." Civilization and barbarism may be a single condition. Woven into the narrative of the "desk killer," Gretton's reflections on his own life were beautiful, and the gay twist toward the end was 😘👌

[Ricky Jones · Rating 4 out of 5]

An interesting and personal journey through the author's attempt to understand the subject which he writes about, while linking it to historical events and events in his life. Thought provoking and a powerful read about a tipic many people try not to think about.

[Fiona R · Rating 2 out of 5]

Did not finish

[Godfrey]

One of the best books I have read thing I never knew about very interesting book but also very disturbing.

[TJS · Rating 2 out of 5]

It’s part musings about various self-discoveries as juxtaposed against the evils of capitalism, and part essays about the banality of evil-doing Holocaust and (in the author’s opinion) Global War on Terror bureaucracies. The former part is navel-gazing, and if calling it self-indulgent is too harsh a description, one still must ask, “Why do I care?” The latter part is interesting when it quotes Third Reich documents, but it reports little or nothing new insofar as far as I got into the long, long tome (No. 1 of 2!). Yes, the Swiss profited from the war, as did German corporations, and thereafter they preferred not to think about 1939-45; we already know that. Thus I was skimming by page 50 and quit about page 120, except to read the section, hundreds of pages later, quoting American government legal memoranda regarding the interrogation of 9/11 suspects.

I was glad to be reminded of the impersonal and euphemistic language of the memorandum regarding the Nazis’ use of mobile extermination vans. But for me, these valuable but occasional reminders couldn’t hold the potential weight of 1,000 pages of text. Maybe Julian Assange will like this extended essay, and I wouldn’t begrudge him or the author that. Back to the library it goes, alas.

[Ben Jackson · Rating 2 out of 5]

Some very interesting sections interspersed with not so interesting journal entries.

The author went to great lengths to dig up additional new information (going to the offices of an often overlooked vehicle manufaturer who developed gas vans) - these parts provided insights that I haven't seen before. Unfortunately a great deal of the book is recollections of the authors travels, including details such as how good the coffee was in a certain city or what the weather was like when he was leaving his hotel. The author also provides his opinions on a lot of matters (phones and computers pulling people apart for example), and seems to forget the tragedies he is writing about at certain points - describing the atrocities commited against the Jewish commnity, followed by the quote "Like many of the most ethical people who have ever lived, she had little time for organised religion".

If the journal type sections were removed I would recommend it in a heartbeat - it definitely makes you take another look at the companies you interact with on a daily basis.

[Keelin Wolfe · Rating 1 out of 5]

DNF - I got half way through the book and had enough. When the author takes the time to spell out his points and arguments, he is very fascinating. However, only about 150 pages of the first 500 have anything to do with the topic and the rest are about his adventures through Europe and America. Too much time is focused on his backpacking, meals, and meeting people who do not contribute to the argument about desk killers and bureaucratic responsibility for violent atrocities.

[epiong · Rating 5 out of 5]

Astonishing! Can't wait for Volume 2.

[A]

First line: "Why are we drawn back to particular places?"

Last line: "I. You. We."

[Rae]

Desk killers. Bureaucracy. Mass murder. Infuriating. Bloated.

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