Women

Cerebus #8

by Dave Sim, Gerhard (Collaborator)

Reprinting Cerebus Issues 163-174

In Cerebus' world, the battle of the sexes has been fought and won - by the women. The government is a matriarchal dictatorship, run by an all-seeing psychic called Cirin. Her rule is totalitarian with, bizarrely, a bias towards motherhood. And her biggest threat comes not from Cerebus, a mere male; but from Astoria, the old consort of Cerebus' who started him on the road to power. Astoria is a libertarian, believing that women shouldn't be tied to their domestic responsibilities - in stark contrast to Cirin's fascism of the family.

Women focuses on the differences between Cirin and Astoria, as Cirin's prepares to follow Cerebus' attempt to ascend and become a god.

Genres: Comics, Graphic Novels, Fantasy, Fiction, Graphic Novels Comics, Comix, Religion

248 pages, Paperback

First published June 1, 1994

About the author

David Victor Sim is a Canadian comic book, artist and publisher, best known as the creator of Cerebus the Aardvark.

Reviews

[Dan · Rating 3 out of 5]

It's taken me a while to get to writing this one up, maybe because it's the first volume of this reread that I've come away from with a slight feeling of disappointment. In memory it was really exciting, as the four main characters (Cerebus, Cirin, Astoria and Po) embark on individual courses that finally bring them to the great throne room, and the promise of confrontation and the Final Ascension. That does all happen, and the convergence in the final pages is expertly handled, but it's only about the final twenty per cent or so of the book. Most of the rest is taken up with lengthy dream sequences. While this fits well with the Roach's latest incarnation as a Sandman parody, such sequences have never been my favourite part of Cerebus. Of course, without the dreams we wouldn't have as many wanking jokes - the bit where dream Cirin is chastising Swoon / the Roach is laugh out loud funny - so I guess you pays your money and you takes your choice.

As befits a book called Women, the main focus characters here are Astoria and Cirin. This is where Dave really expounds on their political movements. Throughout the book there are facing text pages from each's manifesto, spelling out the Cirinist and Kevillist viewpoints on all kinds of subjects. Up to now we've seen Astoria as a very clever arch manipulator, but we've never really known what such manipulation was in aid of. It's interesting to learn in and of itself, but it also indicates just how much effort Dave had put into the building of Estarcion, and how much work lies under the surface of the story, like an iceberg of fictional history and politics.

While it's still brilliantly done (really, at this point I'm taking the fantastic art, lettering, dialogue, page construction, etc as a given, which is probably unfair), I don't think there's enough differentiation from Flight to merit it being a separate volume. The next two parts of Mothers & Daughters have very individual and distinct feel and this just doesn't. Furthermore, it doesn't do enough to advance the storyline - by the end, essentially all that's happened is that some characters already in Iest have gone somewhere else in Iest. I wouldn't be complaining if this had been substantially trimmed and rolled into Flight at the planning stage (although that would break the nice correspondence of the four volumes of M&D to the first four storylines).

So, as I say, a slight disappointment. It's in no way bad, I just don't think it sustains the achievements of the previous books as well as it could. Oh well, onwards to Reads. That'll put the cat amongst the pigeons.


The usual random observations:

Astoria's "go away" is exactly what Cerebus did to her in C&S, likewise just before an ascension. More recurrences and echoes.

I was also sure that this book had the reveal of exactly who the old woman in the cottage that Cerebus crashes into is, but I was wrong about that as well. Trust me, it's worth waiting for. A comment of hers ("Trust me, all women read minds, with very few exceptions") also contributes to the title - I just don't think Dave could resist the idea of four consecutive spines spelling out Women Read(s) Minds(,) Guys(!).

[James · Rating 3 out of 5]

...and here we go. I kept wondering when, on my Cerebus readthrough, I'd hit the point where the book went off the rails.

And this isn't it, I don't mean to suggest that, but the cracks are starting to show. It's a fine story, with the rivalry between Astoria and Cirin dominating the storyline, and some deeply satisfying gags (including the Roach's take on Sandman), but it's the first installment that doesn't feel like unmixed growth from the previous storyline.

We've returned, after the psychedelic fugues into Illusionism that defined Flight, to the political intrigues of Iest, but while the quality of writing is excellent, Sim's only substantive philosophical interjections are already tinged with the cringeworthy misogyny that I remember taking center stage in the next arc. It's not a problem that Sim's fantasy world is so dominated by a fascist matriarchy; that was the case during Church & State as well, and Church & State was brilliant. The problem is that Sim's take on the matriarchy has begun to lose its subtlety, and offers little in the way of new insights, and lots in the way of cheap potshots.

I'm reading the lettercols along with the comic, and this also marks the period where Sim's contrarian nature (present, alongside his excellent wit, from the beginning) has lost all of its charm. The transition from ascendent philosopher king to obnoxious old crank may not be complete, but he's working it.

Oh well. On to Reads, expectations fully in check.

[Christian Lipski · Rating 4 out of 5]

A look at the two feminist camps - Cirinism (the mommy-state, only giving birth makes you a citizen), and Kevilism (women are superior and should be allowed to do everything). Also the Sandman references are nice. Cerebus learns a lot about women's powers, and there's a LOT of hallocinogenic/fever-dream stuff that you know will not be explained, suspecting that it comes from Sim's widening distance from reality.

Also some really kick-ass suspense.

[Rockito · Rating 5 out of 5]

Women is the second phone-book covering the "Mother & Daughters" story-arc, and as the title says it's about women. I know about Dave's ideas and what he intented when writing this, but I can't help but to see this story as an allegory for creator rights, Cirinism being Marvel/DC (Or any other company who shits on creator rights) and Kevillisim being Dave's mindset that writers/artists are basically god-like beings who should do whatever the hell they feel like, including breaking contracts.

[Felix · Rating 2 out of 5]

While I enjoyed the humorous sequences with Roach and Elrod satirizing Neil Gaiman's Endless, the misogyny of the rest of the book was just too distracting for me to enjoy the good artwork and interesting opposition between Kevilists and Cirinists.

[Mer · Rating 1 out of 5]

The hateful, misogynist, incoherent rantings of a brilliant, batshit crazy individual.

What a waste of genius.

[StrictlySequential · Rating 3 out of 5]

Second Printing = April 1994

Story: **
Confusing and annoying. Astoria's pages were good character writing but the rest weren't interesting- not even the "Sandman" parody players.

Art: ****
Many pages with prose writing only and others with scant illustration. It appears that he could've done this one without Gerhard because it's much less art than you'd think there would be.

[Ben · Rating 4 out of 5]

This one actually seems less misogynistic, with its interesting idealogical political struggle and fun drunken Cerebus and Sandman Roach parody.

[Rex Hurst · Rating 4 out of 5]

This volume collects issues 163-174 of Cerebus and is the second volume in the Mothers and Daughters arc, which dominates the second third of the Cerebus series. With the depth of a story in a series like this, it reminds me often of Dante’s The Divine Comedy. That is of the many people I talk to about literature, many have heard of it, but almost none have read it all the way through.

The diverging philosophies of Cirinism and Kevillism are explained in more detail here. While both are sexist female dominance matriarchy they differ in some key points. Well key for a liberal agenda, as often these types of movements and organizations break into splinter groups over minor dogmatic trivia- which then leads to violence. As it has been shown, when you leave a leftist organization alone it begins to feed on itself, as they are only good as destroying what exists, not in building anything. These are told in various documents written by Cirin and Astoria, the mother and daughter respectively.

The difference between the two aspects dwells on who should be allowed to have the responsibility for government. The Cirinist views only that women who have given birth (whether live or not is uncertain) should be allowed to vote or hold office. They believe that only the tempering effect of having a fragile life depend on them absolutely can allow a woman to fully understand the what is important in life. They represent a more traditional standard values of aspect of early feminism. Essentially they are conservative and interested primarily in maintaining the status quo, only with women in charge. Astoria points out the hypocrisy of this in that most of these “mothers” who take power often then pawn their children off on nannies and wet nurses to raise for them- thus defeating the purpose of being a mother in the Cirinist philosophy. Shades of Hillary Clinton here.

While the Kevillist view exists solely on the basis of choice, constant choice for the woman. The choice to become a mother, to abort a child or keep it, to become married or not, to gain a career or not- and that society should constantly respond accordingly and positively to the choices that a woman makes. It is pointed out that having more choices increases, rather than decreases, factionalism. As leftists are “all or nothing” political personalities, groups popped up each fervently believing with religious ferocity that they have the one-and-only correct view of life and that those who do not agree are monsters requiring extermination. Hence all of the political violence stemming from the left. Astoria, through her Kevillist dogma, states that the Cirnist mothers should handle the domestic policies, while the Kevillist handle all the others.

Of course both of these policies boil down to have and have-nots. Those who are mothers have no problem with the Cirinist model, while unable to unwilling to procreate are staunch Kevillists.

We are seeing the end of Astoria here, the political force behind Cerebus’s rise to power/ Her main ability seems to be in propping up others and stirring domestic unrest. She is the brain behind two dissident organizations: Kevillist and the Eye of the Pyramid- a terrorist organization in Palnu that she formed primarily to assassinate her ex-husband Lord Julius. She is stripped of power and lost faith in her followers whom she attempted to empower, but mindlessly bleat after her like sheep.

The Roach enters his best incarnation, in my opinion, as Swoon, a parody of Dream from the massive hit Vertigo series Sandman. In it we see a comment on the angst ridden goth narcissism which was a popular stance at the time. Swoon (and his sister Snuff) is a mopey whiner, chronic masturbater, that contemplates the futility of life and everything ad nauseum. He claims to wield great power, but spends most of his time ineffectually complaining about life in purple prose.

Endgame for the drama of the series starts with this book, with the current incarnation of Suenteus Po, dressed as Death, bringing all of the players together at the end of the book for a final showdown. And explosive it will be.

[Tom Ewing · Rating 3 out of 5]

Women is to a large extent Flight continued - after this Mothers & Daughters takes a sharp right turn, one of the effects of which is to make a lot of the conflict outlined here much less relevant. Kevillism is mentioned a few times after this, but the ideological war between Cirin and Astoria, the backdrop to much of the series' intrigue since High Society, fizzles to a halt here, just as Dave Sim gets round to actually explaining it.

I found myself wishing he hadn't. Left as an outline, you could fill in your own details of what the Cirinists and Kevillists believe, which would probably have left both more credible in the reader's eyes. There are enough disagreements among real-world feminists, including very profound ones, for the story to riff on the idea of them without really filling the broad outlines suggested by the words "mothers" and "daughters". What we know before Women starts is probably enough - Cirinism is a natalist theocracy in which only mothers can vote which relies on physical force; Kevillism is a broader female supremacist movement which works via political intrigue and coded communication.

We've already seen Sim explore aspects of life in a Cirinist society, and he'll keep on doing that. In Women, though, he starts including extracts from the core philosophies of his two fictional movements, and I began to think - I know this conclusion may shock you - that Dave Sim's grasp on feminist ideas isn't particularly strong. Both Cirinism and Kevillism feel like extremist parodies of the fringes of feminist thinking, with a bit of fascism or libertarianism thrown in. As High Society style political satire a la Lord Julius' machinations they make a certain amount of sense, but the placement of the texts in the book, and the large amount of conversation given over to them, suggests that a more serious reading is expected. Perhaps this isn't Dave Sim parodying feminism. Perhaps this is what Dave Sim thinks feminists actually believe.

We'll get a definitive answer on that soon enough. Meanwhile - not for the last time in Cerebus - the constant irruption of text pages serves to both break up and drag down the storytelling, which, as in Flight, is hard to follow at the best of times, a melange of scene-shifting and oblique storytelling in which much of the action takes place in dreams, but where much of the dreams have real world effects. Some of the key scenes are told via telepathic reportage in ways which make them feel deeply unreliable and chaotic, an intentional (and effective) destablilising of the story.

The emphasis on dreams is reflected in what's probably the best-liked and -remembered element of Women, the Roach's transformation into Sandman parody Swoon. Neil Gaiman, no less, loved the homage and still speaks of it fondly. Visually it's a treat - the Roach as a lovesick goth, Elrod in a wig as Death - but for me there's something unsatisfactory about it, and about Sim switching away from the volume's climax to do a series of Roach jokes about Image Comics and the rest of the recently-booming mainstream (inevitably, most of these are now baffling even if you were 'there'). Like the Conan pastiches, broad riffs on mainstream comics were part of what made the series great, but the tonal whiplash they create in Women next to the dreams, the disasters, the decompression and everything else just adds to a feeling of chaos: Sim playing the hits one last time, but nothing sticking.

In one major way, though, Women improves on Flight. Flight was riffing on the early issues of Cerebus, where the hero wandered aimlessly between adventures, and so it often felt arbitrary in its shifts of emphasis and cast. Women, though, is - according to Sim - intended as a High Society follow-up, and it shares with its model a setting, a sense of plot and counterplot, a focus on Astoria and most of all a direction. The story is building to a confrontation, and that basic level of excitement and momentum is how it works best.

[Dominick · Rating 4 out of 5]

Sim is still all over the place, but this volume seems more coherent than Flight. Sim's interest is subjectivity and in the extent to which truth is subservient to perception and preconception is central here, amusingly in his Sandman parody Swoon but far more seriously and interestingly in his depiction of Cirin and Astoria. Sim is not trying to make either of them admirable, but he is remarkably good at depicting their conflicting philosophies. Admittedly, at times (especially with Cirin) that he gets overly simplistic, but then, both are ideologues, and real-world ideologues can be as monomaniacal and excessive as Cirin and Astoria. What I find fascinating is that Sim is well able to represent how they perceive and interpret events according to their preconceptions but seems absolutely unable to recognize his own shoe-horning of reality into his own preconceived ideas, which, ironically, comes increasingly to dominate the series in future volumes. The cartooning continues to be superlative, and Sim's use of multiple narrative voices and points of view is at the least interesting, if only a mixed success (mainly because Sim is not as good a prose writer as he thinks he is--as will also become a more significant problem in alter volumes). Astoria emerges here as Sim's most interesting character creation, as she comes to question her own actions and decisions--making her a rarity in Sim's world. I suspect it's going to be mostly downhill from here forward....

[Andrea · Rating 3 out of 5]

This was a surprisingly decent read at points, definitely making quite a lot out of its combination of satire, high drama and some really immaculate drawings and staging that really make the artwork look very distinctive - and also where so much of the visuals really work at getting inside the main character Cerebus's head and how he thinks and his desires and so forth. I thought the staging with the giant chess pieces was really fascinating, especially just how there's so much texture drawn into individual objects that makes it feel really alive.

I would also say this is kind of at a point where the author was dabbling way more into his controversial politics regarding feminism and masculine identity, which is a bit weird. Quite a lot of people accuse this of being misogynistic, but what I find interesting is how it probes into broad overarching systems involving the "Matriarchists", and composing two separate camps of feminist beliefs - feeling very elaborate and weirdly conspiratorial in what it's trying to say, and really there's so much of it which ultimately winds up reflecting male anxieties regarding women. Still, I think this is kind of at a point where there's still a lot of highs - but there's quite a lot about the storytelling about the latter half of Cerebus that feels quite muddled and sometimes pretty frustrating to read through with what it's attempting to say.

Thought it was quite interesting though, but honestly I'd advise people who want to read this comic to read until the 'Jaka's Story' section and see if they want to continue with reading it. If you stopped there, you'd get the impression that you read through a masterpiece of a comic series.

[Gilly Singh · Rating 3 out of 5]

The war between Mothers and Daughters continues, alongside intermittent sorties by the Illusionist Camp, The Roach and Albino as well as Cerebus himself. Iest is in civil war.

A lot of reviews of this story arc are written by people saying they're lost in the plot. I think it says a great deal about Dave Sim's work that there are those who have gotten confused yet who are still willing to put themselves through trying to make head or tail of what is going on. It is possible to follow the plot but, to make sure you're successful in doing so, I'd highly recommend reading the preceding volumes back to back otherwise there is a big risk of small, seemingly incidental characters passing you by.

The story is captivating, the artwork continues to be some of the best of the series and they myriad narrative styles Sim uses are a masterclass in themselves. That being said, you can't help but finish the book asking the questions, "Where are we going and why?"

This volume ends on a cliffhanger and it is relatively short in comparison to some of the others in the series.

[H · Rating 2 out of 5]

This goes off the rails so fast lol. Before there are pretty obvious signs that this guy does not have normal ideas about what it means to be a person, but here it's like a switch was flipped and it's just unhinged invective. Although a very interesting look at proto-incelism, kind of like what saint-simon was to marx, or wycliffe to luther I guess. A flatly utilitarian view of the world is sublimated and projected onto women, resulting in insane formulations like 'Those with wealth must serve as her personal treasury; those with brawn as her soldiers/warriors; those with fertile minds serve as debating adversaries'. Straightforward transferral, this is what the guy thinks of women and he's convinced himself that instead it's what they think of him (to borrow a quote, they don't think of him at all—put 'fertile mind, good debating adversary' in your hinge profile and see how far it gets you). That's the incel logic (or mindset)—I have objectified my sexual interests ergo I must have been objectified myself by them and been found wanting.

At least the backgrounds are cool!

[Thomas Radigan · Rating 2 out of 5]

After his visit to Suenteus Po, Cerebus is sent to a tavern to hide from the Cirinists. There is a funny scene where he deals with a mocking tavern bully, and we finally learn the difference between Cirinism and Astoria's Kevellism. But Astoria has a final revelation-she confesses her true intentions all along, and announces her plan to drop out of the whole game, now that her followers are trapped and facing extermination.

But the story gets too goofy. Cerebus is revealed to be a hermaphrodite...um, the point? And the Roach was never anything more than a tool to Astoria. At this point I was feeling like a tool myself. Not just for the story; in the comic's letter section, people were expressing dissatisfaction with the way the comic was going, and Dave Sim started responding with snippy answers and comments on how artistic Cerebus was supposed to be.

[Tegiminis · Rating 3 out of 5]

I actually quite like the feminist schism in this volume - Cirinists (2nd wave) vs Kevillists (3rd wave) and the political/emotional/personal repercussions this has on most of the cast. We've heard various bits about both groups in the past (mostly the Cirinists) but the Kevillist viewpoint gets fully elaborated here and... it's pretty reasonable! Surprisingly to most people, probably, the viewpoints of both parties to the schism make sense, at least as to their origins and the problems they are addressing. The actual forward momentum on the plot comes to a standstill, but I appreciate the extra detail. Not quite as fun as Flight or vulnerable as Reads, though.

[Mauricio Garcia · Rating 3 out of 5]

Better than Flight even when most of what I said of that book applies here as well: it's mostly just set-up after set-up after set-up mixed up with what I think is the first and only high-fantasy Gender Studies lore (that surely nobody asked for)... And all for what?

I guess I'll have to wait until Reads to find out.

Ps: The Dream of the Endless parody is the first time the Roach character has made me laugh, and it was well worth the wait.

[John · Rating 1 out of 5]

Marginally better than the previous volume in terms of storytelling and building tension, but still full of misogynistic bloviating. The art is still good, but it is too often interrupted by pages of text so that even its greatest strength is undermined.

[John · Rating 3 out of 5]

This is where it all started to go seriously strange.
The authorial intrusions and Heinlein level speechifying only increase from here.
It's still great art however and rarely dull.

[Little Timmy · Rating 3 out of 5]

This was an OK read in the series. Better than the last book. Hopefully this starts an upswing for the story. Recommended

[Michael Grant · Rating 3 out of 5]

3.4

[Vincent Griffin · Rating 3 out of 5]

I liked the Cirinists v kevillists angle but towards the end I had no idea what was going on with the dream sequences

[Ed Erwin · Rating 5 out of 5]

Loved this volume! This combines the great art, lettering and world-building evident in all volumes with great humor and an interesting plot (which is not present in all volumes). There are many dream sequences, and weird "is this a dream?" sequences, but they make sense to me more than they did in, say, "Church and State". Four of the major characters come together explosively in the end, which is a cliff-hanger for the next volume.

The parody of "Sandman" is my favorite of all the comics parodies in this series. Perhaps because I am more familiar with "Sandman" than I am the other works that have been parodied before. Having a character like "Swoon, of the Clueless" (a parody of "Dream, of the Endless") who lives in the dreamworld, allows him to interact with the dream sequences. The dream interaction with Cirin where she, as mother figure, chastises him for his naughty habit is hilarious, as is the scene where he is a bartender at a bar for squirrels. The last volume and this one could have been combined into a single volume, except that the two parody bits are so different in the two: "Punisher" in the first, and "Sandman" here.

The humor is balanced by the dead seriousness of totalitarian dystopian society and wars between two forms of radical feminism. Sim is avowedly anti-feminist, which will discredit him with some readers. But for me the critique in this volume is more of radical forms of feminism, or radicalism in general. You shouldn't expect literal correspondence with the real world in a story with an aardvark pope.

Despite the critique of feminism, there are strong, complicated, nuanced, female characters. Jaka in a previous volume. Astoria, in this one, realizes and comments on her contradictory desire for democratic consensus and her desire to be in charge. Cirin hates all things masculine, but realizes she rules the same as a man (but woe betide anyone who would agree with that.)

There is a great deal of text in this "comic", which means it is a slower read than most comics. Maybe so much so that it shouldn't be called a comic. That is an on-going thing with this work which works well and I won't criticize it. What I will criticize is that the font is sometimes very, very small and very hard on my eyes, while there is plenty of room for the text to be larger. Also some text and graphics can get lost in the fold of some two-page spreads. That wouldn't be a problem in the original 20-page issues, but these giant volumes will not lay flat.

I'm am very eager to move on into the next volume. (Though I've been warned that it becomes even more text-heavy and controversial.)

[Luc · Rating 3 out of 5]

Now that I know about Sim's asshat ways, I find it hard to really appreciate a book where he tries to tackle the subject of women. Let's just say that there won't be many surviving members of the human species if I turn to Sim for advice on the subject.

Because Sim paints two types of women: castrating shrews who concern themselves to child rearing and crushing men and castrating shrews obsessed with themselves and castrating men. It may be fun to see that he has constructed coherent and sometimes distinct world views and philosophies for Cirinists and Kevillists but ultimately Sim comes across as bitter misogynist.

Sure, an occasional female character comes across as a "cool girlfriend" archetype such as Red Sophia, who still misses Cerebus apparently, and Jaka. Unfortunately, these characters are either drowned out by the outcry of misandrist women (in Sophia's case) or just find themselves in self imposed seclusion (for Jaka).

At least, the action is moving along nicely and some situations seem to reach a dénouement towards the end. However, having read the series before, I know I'm headed for the dreadful Reads. I'll try for the first time to read the whole thing but I'm not optimistic on my capacity to stomach it.

Wish me luck

[Robert Hudder · Rating 3 out of 5]

Wow. Watched a documentary on Bobby Fisher yesterday and then finished this book. While the argument of a person with mental illness is internally consistent, there is always some type of check from the real world that can topple it. Both Fisher and Sim dealt/deal with mental illness.

We, as a society, often glorify this type of thing in that we revere those artists and geniuses and state that it is all part of the package. I'm not sure it is.

In this part of the arc, the chauvinism is ramping up for the final showdown (which I read last week in Reads) and it shows. Ultimately, this series feels like one man's quest to solve his loneliness through using characters on a page to posit different arguments. My issue is that it is both literally and figuratively a black and white situation. The starkness of the arguments leaves no room for middle ground. It is this middle ground or third solution that may help some people find a happiness. It is not either female or male though I suppose that is what a lot of the world history is based on. It is precisely because of this history that makes Sim at least a person to read and consider. As Joel says, you may be right, (he) may be crazy...

[Hamish · Rating 2 out of 5]

Well here's where it all starts to fall apart. The momentum and rising action from the previous volume? Gone. There's several plot-lines running here, but they all seem to sputter and the feeling of tension is lost. It doesn't help that at least one of the plots is a comic relief plot. Back in the day Sim was great at mixing the serious and the humorous without detracting from either. Around this time he lost that talent, which might have something to do with the fact that the comic relief bits here aren't even slightly funny.

I think most of the flaws in Sim's style were there from the beginning, but they were so minor at the time that you gave them a pass. It's like buying a house that has a few small cracks in the wall. You think yeah, there are these small little cracks, but the house is so beautiful and they kind of give it character anyway. But then there's an earthquake and suddenly the cracks grow to giant size and oh shit your house just fell on you.

[Sean Samonas · Rating 2 out of 5]

There is a lot that happens in this book, which is good to see again. Unfortunately it is mired again in Daves need to sacrifice the narrative for a chance to spout his own personal philosophy.

This book was a particular disappointment for me because Astoria is my favorite character and to see her acting as she does in this book makes no sense. Dave clearly doesn't like any of his female characters anymore, and is getting ready to expel all of them from the narrative as quickly as possible.

Oh and the parody of characters from Sandman is utterly the worst hack job I've ever seen. Seriously, so completely stupid that it boggles the mind. I have never been a fan of either The Roach or Elrod, so I was pretty annoyed to find them taking up so many pages with their crap.

[Karen-Leigh · Rating 4 out of 5]

Reprinting Cerebus Issues 163-174

In Cerebus' world, the battle of the sexes has been fought and won - by the women. The government is a matriarchal dictatorship, run by an all-seeing psychic called Cirin. Her rule is totalitarian with, bizarrely, a bias towards motherhood. And her biggest threat comes not from Cerebus, a mere male; but from Astoria, the old consort of Cerebus' who started him on the road to power. Astoria is a libertarian, believing that women shouldn't be tied to their domestic responsibilities - in stark contrast to Cirin's fascism of the family.

Women focuses on the differences between Cirin and Astoria, as Cirin's prepares to follow Cerebus' attempt to ascend and become a god.

[Sean · Rating 2 out of 5]

Still things to like in here. The art, of course. And by the end, it feels like actual story momentum is forming. But getting to that point one has to wade through an increasing amount of Dave Sim's War On The Many Forms of Feminism, As Defined By Dave Sim. It's all growing pretty tiresome, theme-wise. Whatever knack for story-telling Sim used to have has pretty much fallen away in place of endless sequences of people talking history and philosophy to no very discernable point, other than the whole overall men vs. women thing he's increasingly consumed by. Which is all pretty weird and unique subject matter for a funny animal comic, to be sure. But good weird? Ehh. Not so much anymore.

[The_Mad_Swede · Rating 5 out of 5]

Collecting issues # 163–­174 of Dave Sim's 300 issues limited series Cerebus the Aardvark and being the second part of four in the Mothers & Daughters story arc, this volume picks up right where the previous one ended. The political intrigues abound and Sim delves deeper into Cirin's cirinist theories concerning mothers and motherhood and Astoria's kevillist opposition of choice. Add to that a wonderful parody of Gaiman's The Sandman, beautifully played out by the Cockroach as Swoon and Elrod the Albino as his sister Snuff, and you have another top notch mark going in Sim's narrative.