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That Was Then, This is Now
Ever since Mark's parents died, he has been living with Bryon. The boys are more like brothers than mere friends. They've been inseparable--until recently. Something seems to be changing between them, and Bryon can't figure it out. Is it Cathy, Bryon's new girlfriend? Is Mark jealous? Bryon is also tired of the street fighting, but Mark seems unable to quit. And where is Mark getting all of that money? In That Was Then, This Is Now, one of her most admired novels, S. E. Hinton paints a richly textured portrait of two boys at a crossroads in their friendship. With careful, intimate strokes, Hinton reveals a boy struggling over whether to protect his best friend or whether to follow his own beliefs about right and wrong. The ending will surprise readers, challenging them to puzzle over Bryon's dilemma in their own hearts.
159 pages, Paperback
First published April 26, 1971
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About the author
S.E. Hinton
45 books8,299 followersS.E. Hinton, was and still is, one of the most popular and best known writers of young adult fiction. Her books have been taught in some schools, and banned from others. Her novels changed the way people look at young adult literature.
Susan Eloise Hinton was born in Tulsa, Oklahoma. She has always enjoyed reading but wasn't satisfied with the literature that was being written for young adults, which influenced her to write novels like The Outsiders. That book, her first novel, was published in 1967 by Viking.
Susan Eloise Hinton was born in Tulsa, Oklahoma. She has always enjoyed reading but wasn't satisfied with the literature that was being written for young adults, which influenced her to write novels like The Outsiders. That book, her first novel, was published in 1967 by Viking.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 2,984 reviews
July 15, 2023
I had aimed to read 40 books this year and this is my 140th so please believe me when I say I am PROUD of myself!
The Outsiders is one of my all time favorite book and I wanted to read something similar so I picked this one up. This one's set around the time as The Outsiders and also has Ponyboy's cameo ( I cannot express how happy I got when I read about him!)
The story's great, the book's great but
Do yourself a favour and read this book. It's short, sweet and heartwrenching.
The Outsiders is one of my all time favorite book and I wanted to read something similar so I picked this one up. This one's set around the time as The Outsiders and also has Ponyboy's cameo ( I cannot express how happy I got when I read about him!)
The story's great, the book's great but
Do yourself a favour and read this book. It's short, sweet and heartwrenching.
February 12, 2020
“You know what the crummiest feeling you can have is? To hate the person you love the best in the world.”
― S.E. Hinton, That Was Then, This Is Now
I read this as a kid but lately certain things have made me think of it and perhaps I will do a reread.
This book is lesser known then "The Outsiders". S.E. Hinton wrote both and I am a huge fan of both these books. While I still prefer The Outsiders, this is a great book as well.
Many are familiar with the plot. Mark and Bryan have been best friends all their lives. But things are changing. Bryan is changing. He is growing up and for the first time he has a girlfriend. Mark however is not happy with this and wants things to remain just as they have always been.
SPOILERS:
I related to Mark in this book greatly. Things are always changing..who hasn't wanted, at one point or more, for things to just slow down..or freeze altogether?
I am someone who is not all that comfortable with change. And growing up, I too felt this amazing free feeling, the feeling that it would always be this way. This is such an easy book to relate to.
FYI..this book was also a film. I saw it and the ending is completely different. It actually ends on a (semi) happy note. I can understand the "Hollywooding" of the ending but honesty, the book's bleak ending is closer to reality and is most likely how it really would have played out.
Although I felt for Mark, I do not excuse some of his actions. Likewise, I felt for Bryan, trying to stay afloat in a world that is changing, trying to hold on to both people he loves while dealing with so much.
I hope if one has not read this book and they stumble on this review, they will pick it up. Hinton is an incredible writer. She gets in side her characters heads and crafts amazing literature. I've never forgotten this extraordinary book and will reread soon . Highly recommended.
― S.E. Hinton, That Was Then, This Is Now
I read this as a kid but lately certain things have made me think of it and perhaps I will do a reread.
This book is lesser known then "The Outsiders". S.E. Hinton wrote both and I am a huge fan of both these books. While I still prefer The Outsiders, this is a great book as well.
Many are familiar with the plot. Mark and Bryan have been best friends all their lives. But things are changing. Bryan is changing. He is growing up and for the first time he has a girlfriend. Mark however is not happy with this and wants things to remain just as they have always been.
SPOILERS:
I related to Mark in this book greatly. Things are always changing..who hasn't wanted, at one point or more, for things to just slow down..or freeze altogether?
I am someone who is not all that comfortable with change. And growing up, I too felt this amazing free feeling, the feeling that it would always be this way. This is such an easy book to relate to.
FYI..this book was also a film. I saw it and the ending is completely different. It actually ends on a (semi) happy note. I can understand the "Hollywooding" of the ending but honesty, the book's bleak ending is closer to reality and is most likely how it really would have played out.
Although I felt for Mark, I do not excuse some of his actions. Likewise, I felt for Bryan, trying to stay afloat in a world that is changing, trying to hold on to both people he loves while dealing with so much.
I hope if one has not read this book and they stumble on this review, they will pick it up. Hinton is an incredible writer. She gets in side her characters heads and crafts amazing literature. I've never forgotten this extraordinary book and will reread soon . Highly recommended.
July 20, 2020
3.5 stars
"It's not just a stage! You can't say 'It's just a stage,' when it's important to people what they're feeling. Maybe he will outgrow it someday, but right now it's important." -- Cathy, on page 104
One of Hinton's strengths as a writer is creating / populating an entire fictional 'wrong side of the tracks' section of real-life Tulsa, Oklahoma (her birthplace / hometown) with a score of well-defined teenagers and/or young adults who are trying their best to navigate their way through messy and disorganized lives. The succinct That Was Then, This is Now shares lineage with two of Hinton's other books, The Outsiders and Tex, as some of the characters freely jump between or through the stories.
That Was Then . . . focuses on and is first-person narrated by Bryon, a fourteen year-old growing up in a single-parent household (somewhat uncommon at the time, way back in the summer of '71) with an 'adopted' brother / best friend of similar age named Mark. The boys engage in a lot of juvenile delinquent or petty criminal activity, but it eventually becomes clear that Bryon - with his crudely thoughtful nature - will potentially mature and possibly grow up / grow out of it. Mark, however, is a different story, and seems to have an undercurrent of unpredictability. The book details how their long-running brotherly bond is strained once events start occurring that firmly push the two boys towards adulthood. I admire that Hinton crafted an ending here that was melancholy, and had one of the characters make a life-altering decision that appears to be divisive to readers. The author again also explores her regular theme (never in a heavy-handed way, but very apparent in her stories) of the importance of a positive male role model - or the problem with the lack thereof - in a boy's life.
"It's not just a stage! You can't say 'It's just a stage,' when it's important to people what they're feeling. Maybe he will outgrow it someday, but right now it's important." -- Cathy, on page 104
One of Hinton's strengths as a writer is creating / populating an entire fictional 'wrong side of the tracks' section of real-life Tulsa, Oklahoma (her birthplace / hometown) with a score of well-defined teenagers and/or young adults who are trying their best to navigate their way through messy and disorganized lives. The succinct That Was Then, This is Now shares lineage with two of Hinton's other books, The Outsiders and Tex, as some of the characters freely jump between or through the stories.
That Was Then . . . focuses on and is first-person narrated by Bryon, a fourteen year-old growing up in a single-parent household (somewhat uncommon at the time, way back in the summer of '71) with an 'adopted' brother / best friend of similar age named Mark. The boys engage in a lot of juvenile delinquent or petty criminal activity, but it eventually becomes clear that Bryon - with his crudely thoughtful nature - will potentially mature and possibly grow up / grow out of it. Mark, however, is a different story, and seems to have an undercurrent of unpredictability. The book details how their long-running brotherly bond is strained once events start occurring that firmly push the two boys towards adulthood. I admire that Hinton crafted an ending here that was melancholy, and had one of the characters make a life-altering decision that appears to be divisive to readers. The author again also explores her regular theme (never in a heavy-handed way, but very apparent in her stories) of the importance of a positive male role model - or the problem with the lack thereof - in a boy's life.
January 3, 2015
See, everyone's talking about how the ending is wonderfully dark and hopeless and brave in its horror.
Well, I think it's bullshit.
I think Mark is gorgeous inside and outside, and fearless and clever and slightly twisted and dead sexy, and I think Bryon is a flighty, selfish, irrational dick. And I'm pissed about it.
You know what I'd love right now? I'd love to have a book about Mark. Just Mark. How he grew up and grew harder, what he felt for Bryon and the rest of the world, his reasons and his ways.
Bryon? Fuck Bryon. Bryon is the younger, less impactful version of the classic inept middle-aged protagonist who exists just to show the lows humanity can get to or some such thing, and on a scale of one to any other character Hinton has written about he sucks balls, starting around halfway through the book and up until the very end.
It's a captivating story, I'll give Hinton that.
Brotherhood, friendship and life in the hood are all touched with a delicate hand, and Hinton manages to convey what they mean and feel like without even needing to explicitly tell the reader about them.
The great characters counterbalance the awful ones: Mark does it for Bryon, M&M for Cathy. I suppose it all sort of balances out, in the end - but this could have achieved greatness. There are good seeds.
Bryon, my man, let me give you some anything-but-friendly advice: TALK IT OUT before you act, or get the fuck outta here.
Well, I think it's bullshit.
I think Mark is gorgeous inside and outside, and fearless and clever and slightly twisted and dead sexy, and I think Bryon is a flighty, selfish, irrational dick. And I'm pissed about it.
You know what I'd love right now? I'd love to have a book about Mark. Just Mark. How he grew up and grew harder, what he felt for Bryon and the rest of the world, his reasons and his ways.
Bryon? Fuck Bryon. Bryon is the younger, less impactful version of the classic inept middle-aged protagonist who exists just to show the lows humanity can get to or some such thing, and on a scale of one to any other character Hinton has written about he sucks balls, starting around halfway through the book and up until the very end.
It's a captivating story, I'll give Hinton that.
Brotherhood, friendship and life in the hood are all touched with a delicate hand, and Hinton manages to convey what they mean and feel like without even needing to explicitly tell the reader about them.
The great characters counterbalance the awful ones: Mark does it for Bryon, M&M for Cathy. I suppose it all sort of balances out, in the end - but this could have achieved greatness. There are good seeds.
Bryon, my man, let me give you some anything-but-friendly advice: TALK IT OUT before you act, or get the fuck outta here.
March 6, 2013
This book is heartbreaking.
I read it years ago and wanted to read it again. Want to know the reason why it took me years to read it again? Because I cried my eyes out when I finished it the first time, that it has taken me this long to be able to read it again. The heartbreak was still there when I reached the end, but it was a memory of the original heartbreak. I didn’t cry the second time around, but I was close to it.
The characters are are very well developed making you feel everything they do, which I dont always find is possible with such short books, but it achieved completely here. It very raw in its emotions, and uncensored in censored kinda way. The lifestyle is one that is brutally harsh and often unpleasant to think about, but the author doesnt stoop to using lots of swear words though there are plenty of occasions when they are walked around. The author leaves the mentions ‘foul’ speak open to interpretation, like she does with just the right amount of the settings and the rest of book. Hinton gives you enough to help form the image she wants, but not enough to wreck the experience of using some of your own imagination.
Though by the title name, and the general style that we found from Hinton’s first book The Outsiders (which I will review once I tape my copy back together) we can kind of guess that the story isn’t going to end happily, but what happens is still unexpected and enough to make one cry.
A small touch I really enjoyed about this book is that made me enjoy it just that little bit more, the setting is the same from The Outsiders and you get to see a glimpse of the old main character Ponyboy Curtis once again, but he doesnt take over the story. Because of this I recommend that you read the first one before this even though they aren’t related, you might just get that something else out of it.
The only bad note I have to say about this book is that there were just a couple of phrases/wording issues that I had to go back and read a couple of times because they didnt flow very.
So in conclusion READ THIS BOOK!! Its a great short read that will alter your soul.
I read it years ago and wanted to read it again. Want to know the reason why it took me years to read it again? Because I cried my eyes out when I finished it the first time, that it has taken me this long to be able to read it again. The heartbreak was still there when I reached the end, but it was a memory of the original heartbreak. I didn’t cry the second time around, but I was close to it.
The characters are are very well developed making you feel everything they do, which I dont always find is possible with such short books, but it achieved completely here. It very raw in its emotions, and uncensored in censored kinda way. The lifestyle is one that is brutally harsh and often unpleasant to think about, but the author doesnt stoop to using lots of swear words though there are plenty of occasions when they are walked around. The author leaves the mentions ‘foul’ speak open to interpretation, like she does with just the right amount of the settings and the rest of book. Hinton gives you enough to help form the image she wants, but not enough to wreck the experience of using some of your own imagination.
Though by the title name, and the general style that we found from Hinton’s first book The Outsiders (which I will review once I tape my copy back together) we can kind of guess that the story isn’t going to end happily, but what happens is still unexpected and enough to make one cry.
A small touch I really enjoyed about this book is that made me enjoy it just that little bit more, the setting is the same from The Outsiders and you get to see a glimpse of the old main character Ponyboy Curtis once again, but he doesnt take over the story. Because of this I recommend that you read the first one before this even though they aren’t related, you might just get that something else out of it.
The only bad note I have to say about this book is that there were just a couple of phrases/wording issues that I had to go back and read a couple of times because they didnt flow very.
So in conclusion READ THIS BOOK!! Its a great short read that will alter your soul.
May 17, 2009
Every bit as punching (no pun intended) as The Outsiders, but with a much darker ending.
It was great to see cameos of the characters from The Outsiders. The different perspective on Curtis was a nice touch.
Hinton's writing style made a noticeable improvement. Which is saying a lot. While she was fantastic in The Outsiders, this book made her points a lot more subtle (with the exception of the titled line). She made no great effort to foreshadow events, yet everything fell into a logical line of consequences that can surprise you if you're not anticipating it. I also feel that the personal development of the characters was better portrayed than in The Outsiders.
The ending broke my heart and threw out the pieces.
Favorite quotes:
"If you have two friends in your lifetime, you're lucky. If you have one GOOD friend, you're more than lucky." p. 43
"If people think you can't hear them, they talk as if you couldn't. You can hear some pretty neat stuff that way." p. 45 (I do this a lot)
"You know what the crummiest feeling you can have is? To hate the person you love the best in the world." p. 49
'Nothing can wear you out like caring for people." p. 139
It was great to see cameos of the characters from The Outsiders. The different perspective on Curtis was a nice touch.
Hinton's writing style made a noticeable improvement. Which is saying a lot. While she was fantastic in The Outsiders, this book made her points a lot more subtle (with the exception of the titled line). She made no great effort to foreshadow events, yet everything fell into a logical line of consequences that can surprise you if you're not anticipating it. I also feel that the personal development of the characters was better portrayed than in The Outsiders.
The ending broke my heart and threw out the pieces.
Favorite quotes:
"If you have two friends in your lifetime, you're lucky. If you have one GOOD friend, you're more than lucky." p. 43
"If people think you can't hear them, they talk as if you couldn't. You can hear some pretty neat stuff that way." p. 45 (I do this a lot)
"You know what the crummiest feeling you can have is? To hate the person you love the best in the world." p. 49
'Nothing can wear you out like caring for people." p. 139
October 13, 2020
My 12yr old self would have probably given this 5 stars. But "that was then, this is now". <--Pun, pun. Lol. Sorry, that was pretty bad. I couldn't help it.
Let's just say this was not meant to have been read by my way older self. This was pretty bad, and I'm only giving this 2 stars because nostalgia and S.E. Hinton and The Outsiders.
The characters are unlikable and I do remember not liking them even back when I was younger. Bryon thinks he's cool, and a know it all, but he really has no clue he's not a likable guy. He falls for Cathy and immediately is choosing her over Mark, his brother from another mother. There's never enough detail about Cathy and what makes her so special. If anything, she's also dislikable. I think I liked Angela better, a girl from the bad side of the tracks who Bryon used to date. What's so special about Cathy that makes Bryon be disloyal to Mark? Yeah, didn't care enough about these two.
Some other peeves with this book:
--I hate the way Bryon's name was spelled? Small detail, but it bugged me throughout the whole book.
--After Charlie's death, the police decide to give Bryon and Mark Charlie's car because "they think Charlie would have wanted them to have it", although Bryon and Mark are not related to Charlie. This was very sloppy writing. Like yeah, I wish someone would decide I could have something because I had that needy look.
--Ponyboy (of The Outsiders) appears throughout the book. In my opinion, he should have been kept out of this story.
--The ending was terrible. If I disliked Bryon at the start, I really hated him by the end. And then there's the absentee mom, who finally appears, only to make Bryon feel like he made the right decision.
I hate to rate this so low. S.E. Hinton was one of my favorite authors growing up. I read, and reread, and reread The Outsiders. I guess I was expecting the same magic for this one.
Let's just say this was not meant to have been read by my way older self. This was pretty bad, and I'm only giving this 2 stars because nostalgia and S.E. Hinton and The Outsiders.
The characters are unlikable and I do remember not liking them even back when I was younger. Bryon thinks he's cool, and a know it all, but he really has no clue he's not a likable guy. He falls for Cathy and immediately is choosing her over Mark, his brother from another mother. There's never enough detail about Cathy and what makes her so special. If anything, she's also dislikable. I think I liked Angela better, a girl from the bad side of the tracks who Bryon used to date. What's so special about Cathy that makes Bryon be disloyal to Mark? Yeah, didn't care enough about these two.
Some other peeves with this book:
--I hate the way Bryon's name was spelled? Small detail, but it bugged me throughout the whole book.
--After Charlie's death, the police decide to give Bryon and Mark Charlie's car because "they think Charlie would have wanted them to have it", although Bryon and Mark are not related to Charlie. This was very sloppy writing. Like yeah, I wish someone would decide I could have something because I had that needy look.
--Ponyboy (of The Outsiders) appears throughout the book. In my opinion, he should have been kept out of this story.
--The ending was terrible. If I disliked Bryon at the start, I really hated him by the end. And then there's the absentee mom, who finally appears, only to make Bryon feel like he made the right decision.
I hate to rate this so low. S.E. Hinton was one of my favorite authors growing up. I read, and reread, and reread The Outsiders. I guess I was expecting the same magic for this one.
August 17, 2007
Do yourself a favor and skip the crap movie with, um, one of the Estevez brothers, I forget which one. This YA is actually pretty powerful, if rather bleak, because unlike the movie, the novel doesn't cop out by giving the audience a phony happy ending.
January 19, 2024
nothing really happened, but it was sad
June 25, 2021
“You know what the crummiest feeling you can have is? To hate the person you love the best in the world.”
S.E. Hinton knows how to write books that really make you think. She makes you go soul searching and look deep within yourself. You always start off with tough answers and end up with a lot of profound answers.
This one hits deeper than her others because we all grow and change. Sometimes we have to do something huge to show the world that we’re leaving the horribleness behind and moving forward. It really reminded me of my own life of how I was when I first moved to the Midwest and now.
That Was Then, This Is Now was a great read. It's a really quick one. One that I finished within a few hours. It really had me glued to every page. I do wish it was longer though. S.E. Hinton is one author that I had to read in school that I actually loved.
S.E. Hinton knows how to write books that really make you think. She makes you go soul searching and look deep within yourself. You always start off with tough answers and end up with a lot of profound answers.
This one hits deeper than her others because we all grow and change. Sometimes we have to do something huge to show the world that we’re leaving the horribleness behind and moving forward. It really reminded me of my own life of how I was when I first moved to the Midwest and now.
That Was Then, This Is Now was a great read. It's a really quick one. One that I finished within a few hours. It really had me glued to every page. I do wish it was longer though. S.E. Hinton is one author that I had to read in school that I actually loved.
January 18, 2018
What an emotional roller coaster.
I remember reading this in high school, but I couldn't remember anything about the story. Until almost the end of the book and then I knew everything.
Ugh, what a mess it ended up being.
Seems like more than one person lost their mind.
I remember reading this in high school, but I couldn't remember anything about the story. Until almost the end of the book and then I knew everything.
Ugh, what a mess it ended up being.
Seems like more than one person lost their mind.
October 25, 2024
So I’d like to talk about what was good about this book. There was some action, and the storyline was pretty good.
The ending actually WRECKED me. When they took mark away, I actually almost cried. And when Bryon was visiting him I thought it was so sad about how sweet, little Mark could change so much.
Okay, now the parts I didn’t really like.
An ick I have for books is when boys are calling girls “chicks”. It just sounds wrong and makes me cringe. This book is FULL of it. Really made me not like that. Another thing is Bryon. I don’t know why, but something isn’t right about him. I know he really messed up and he knew it in the end, but he should’ve thought about that first. I also don’t like teens getting drunk. They can smoke, but I don’t like it when they get drunk. (Don’t ask why it’s just drinking and not smoking, even im not sure why.) I’m very anti-drugs, so that also made me mad.
I would like to say this book is about friendship and change. Bryon and Marks friendship definitely changed throughout the book, starting with Cathy. This book makes you think, and I like that. So much mental things happening.
Really made me think because of changes with friendships in my life personally, so this book can be very relatable to many other people.
Like I said, the storyline was good. Some of the characters weren’t. And M&M was pretty cool but he really did strike me as weird. His sister, Cathy, didn’t really do much for me. I didn’t really care, but that’s okay. When Charlie died, I was actually pretty upset. He was nice, and even though he wasn’t really a main character, I still liked him and was sad when he got shot by those Texan people.
So, three stars. Not the best, but not the worst. I was obsessed with the outsiders, so I’m a little shocked. I would recommend this, but I would caution to read at your own risk.
ALL OF THESE ARE MY OWN OPINION. PLEASE NO HATE TO ANYTHING I SAID.
The ending actually WRECKED me. When they took mark away, I actually almost cried. And when Bryon was visiting him I thought it was so sad about how sweet, little Mark could change so much.
Okay, now the parts I didn’t really like.
An ick I have for books is when boys are calling girls “chicks”. It just sounds wrong and makes me cringe. This book is FULL of it. Really made me not like that. Another thing is Bryon. I don’t know why, but something isn’t right about him. I know he really messed up and he knew it in the end, but he should’ve thought about that first. I also don’t like teens getting drunk. They can smoke, but I don’t like it when they get drunk. (Don’t ask why it’s just drinking and not smoking, even im not sure why.) I’m very anti-drugs, so that also made me mad.
I would like to say this book is about friendship and change. Bryon and Marks friendship definitely changed throughout the book, starting with Cathy. This book makes you think, and I like that. So much mental things happening.
Really made me think because of changes with friendships in my life personally, so this book can be very relatable to many other people.
Like I said, the storyline was good. Some of the characters weren’t. And M&M was pretty cool but he really did strike me as weird. His sister, Cathy, didn’t really do much for me. I didn’t really care, but that’s okay. When Charlie died, I was actually pretty upset. He was nice, and even though he wasn’t really a main character, I still liked him and was sad when he got shot by those Texan people.
So, three stars. Not the best, but not the worst. I was obsessed with the outsiders, so I’m a little shocked. I would recommend this, but I would caution to read at your own risk.
ALL OF THESE ARE MY OWN OPINION. PLEASE NO HATE TO ANYTHING I SAID.
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
February 18, 2016
The Outsiders is one of the most important books in YA history. I doubt it was the first book to portray poverty and gang violence among teenagers realistically, but it was the first to get popular, and it hugely expanded the boundaries of what books for kids could do, in a way that's never been done before or since. With The Outsiders, Hinton paved the way for authors who took teenagers seriously as an audience to write about important issues. Do you like books like The Perks of Being a Wallflower or The Fault in Our Stars? Well, they wouldn't be possible without Hinton's influence. Books can be influential without being good, but I'm happy to say that I did moderately enjoy The Outsiders. It had its flaws, but it's a solid YA book, especially considering that Hinton was doing something she'd essentially never seen done before. So it made sense that it would be good to check out her follow-up. This book didn't have the same popularity that The Outsiders did, but I still see it in used bookstores every once in a while.
But, unfortunately, this turned out to be a far weaker book than The Outsiders. I can see why this book wasn't as popular or acclaimed as The Outsiders - it's just not as impactful or well-written.
The first problem is immediately irritating, from the opening pages of the book: the direct characterization. Bryon is constantly telling us things about the other characters, rather than letting us see for ourselves. This telling, rather than showing, is essentially how every character in the novel is constructed. It got to the point where I'm not even sure if these characters are at all developed - perhaps they just have a lot of informed traits. It gets difficult to tell when Hinton feels the need to inform us of every single thing about them. This device isn't just a lazy way out of using subtlety, it's also an active barrier to letting us connect to these characters. There's no way for a character to feel like a real person when their character traits are being constantly shoved down our throats. Characterization just doesn't work that way. Allowing the reader to do some work in picking up on character traits is essential in keeping the reader engaged - without that, there's no reason for the reader to stay interested.
It doesn't help that the plot is so meandering and flimsy. There's no overarching conflict here, just a bunch of barely-related plot threads. Each of the plot threads - Bryon's mom being in the hospital, M&M disappearing, Mark's former girlfriend trying to start a fight, just to name a few - but they don't come together until the very end, and even then, it's very cheap and forced. There's just no forward motion behind this book. The characterization doesn't provide it, and neither does the plot. There's no real tension, no buildup to any sort of real or emotional climax. Things in this book kind of just happen, often never to be brought up again. Hinton just doesn't seem to have a good idea of what she wants to say here. Many of the plot threads have potential themes that could arise from them, but there's no one idea that unites the whole book. That's probably the biggest strength that The Outsiders has compared to this novel. In The Outsiders, Hinton knew exactly what she wanted to say, and everything in the novel built up to that set of ideas. Here, Hinton has no idea what she wants to say, so she has nothing to build the novel around. That's why it ends up so cheap and flimsy.
This isn't a horrible novel. Bryon's voice is functionally identical to Ponyboy's, but it at least makes the setting feel immersive. And Hinton definitely does write dialogue well, even if it feels extremely dated today. But there's not much reason to read this novel. It's both far less influential and not nearly as good as The Outsiders, so just go ahead and read that instead of wasting your time here.
This review can also be found on my blog.
But, unfortunately, this turned out to be a far weaker book than The Outsiders. I can see why this book wasn't as popular or acclaimed as The Outsiders - it's just not as impactful or well-written.
The first problem is immediately irritating, from the opening pages of the book: the direct characterization. Bryon is constantly telling us things about the other characters, rather than letting us see for ourselves. This telling, rather than showing, is essentially how every character in the novel is constructed. It got to the point where I'm not even sure if these characters are at all developed - perhaps they just have a lot of informed traits. It gets difficult to tell when Hinton feels the need to inform us of every single thing about them. This device isn't just a lazy way out of using subtlety, it's also an active barrier to letting us connect to these characters. There's no way for a character to feel like a real person when their character traits are being constantly shoved down our throats. Characterization just doesn't work that way. Allowing the reader to do some work in picking up on character traits is essential in keeping the reader engaged - without that, there's no reason for the reader to stay interested.
It doesn't help that the plot is so meandering and flimsy. There's no overarching conflict here, just a bunch of barely-related plot threads. Each of the plot threads - Bryon's mom being in the hospital, M&M disappearing, Mark's former girlfriend trying to start a fight, just to name a few - but they don't come together until the very end, and even then, it's very cheap and forced. There's just no forward motion behind this book. The characterization doesn't provide it, and neither does the plot. There's no real tension, no buildup to any sort of real or emotional climax. Things in this book kind of just happen, often never to be brought up again. Hinton just doesn't seem to have a good idea of what she wants to say here. Many of the plot threads have potential themes that could arise from them, but there's no one idea that unites the whole book. That's probably the biggest strength that The Outsiders has compared to this novel. In The Outsiders, Hinton knew exactly what she wanted to say, and everything in the novel built up to that set of ideas. Here, Hinton has no idea what she wants to say, so she has nothing to build the novel around. That's why it ends up so cheap and flimsy.
This isn't a horrible novel. Bryon's voice is functionally identical to Ponyboy's, but it at least makes the setting feel immersive. And Hinton definitely does write dialogue well, even if it feels extremely dated today. But there's not much reason to read this novel. It's both far less influential and not nearly as good as The Outsiders, so just go ahead and read that instead of wasting your time here.
This review can also be found on my blog.
September 2, 2009
I think I've read The Outsiders at least 6 times but strangely I've never read any other of Hinton's books until now. I picked this one up at the library for $1 and I'm very glad I did. It's just as gritty and real as Outsiders but it's time period is set a bit later. (Not too late for Ponyboy to make a cameo appearance though.It's fun even reading that name!) As a parent of a teenager and more on their way there it was a good reminder of all the crazy emotions of that age. My favorite part is Cathy crying to her father and saying, "You can't say, 'This is just a stage,' when it's important to people what they're feeling. Maybe he will outgrow it someday, but right now it's important." Loved it!
April 4, 2025
After absolutely loving The Outsiders, I wasn't sure if this book would meet the high bar in my heart.
While The Outsiders is my favorite SE Hinton book, this was still an excellent read.
The brotherhood and friendship between Byron and Mark was so sweet and heartwarming, which made the ending even more heartbreaking.
Growing up, owning responsibility, and letting go is sometimes a very painful process, and this book perfectly demonstrated that reality.
I LOVED Ponyboy's appearance! I just wish his character would have played a bigger role in the story.
While The Outsiders is my favorite SE Hinton book, this was still an excellent read.
The brotherhood and friendship between Byron and Mark was so sweet and heartwarming, which made the ending even more heartbreaking.
Growing up, owning responsibility, and letting go is sometimes a very painful process, and this book perfectly demonstrated that reality.
I LOVED Ponyboy's appearance! I just wish his character would have played a bigger role in the story.
March 9, 2018
It really is amazing to me that this author, a female, can get into the head of a male teenager, to such a degree that she so completely reveals his thoughts, his actions, his justifications, his excuses, etc. In reading about the author, she said that as a teen she was not satisfied with what was available for her to read so she did something about it and as a consequence she wrote literature relevant to and for a young adult audience. (Of course, the frankness and bold honesty over the years has not been so completely embraced and her books have been "taught in some schools and banned in others".) Her target audience may be YA, but I contend that adults can also learn from and benefit from the honest dialogue of teens who are growing up in near poverty situations so that rather than reacting with judgement there can be an attempt for a deeper understanding.
July 15, 2009
I really tried to like this book. I loved the Outsiders, and I liked seeing some of those characters again. Brian and Mark just seemed a lot meaner to me though, without as many redeeming qualities. The thing that bothered me the most was the ending; it left me really dissastisfied. Whenever something ends sadly, people say it's realistic, but happy endings exist in real life, and would it kill authors to put one in every now and then?
August 28, 2021
Read this one before "The Outsiders" (oops), but it really didn't matter that much. It was amazing all the same.
[EDIT 8/27/21]
The ending cuts me up every single time. I’ve gotta put my heart on life support at this point.
[EDIT 8/27/21]
The ending cuts me up every single time. I’ve gotta put my heart on life support at this point.
June 12, 2025
that was then, this is now easily takes the cake for the darkest, most poignant book in s.e. hinton’s catalog. it’s devastating in all the best ways. adolescence and early adulthood are tumultuous, the transitional period between becoming an adult and remaining a child is hell. it’s a bombardment of expectations, insecurity, doubt, and hesitation. nobody seems to write that specific feeling of fear or angst better than hinton. bryon and mark’s story is a prime example. their story is filled with so much struggle, it’s almost as if these character can never win. they’re faced with death, addiction, abandonment, and violence all while trying to balance their own transitions from childhood to adulthood. these characters still cling to their idyllic versions of their past, they cling to the comfort and the nostalgia their childhoods bring. they all try to escape their reality by reminiscing, yet it never truly sets them free. the final chapter feels like a shot aimed directly at the reader’s heart. it’s melancholic, it’s tense, it’s painful. the last moment between bryon and mark is a moment of severance, gone are the days when these two boys were thick as thieves. betrayal has divided them in ways the reader can’t even comprehend. there’s oceans, nay, there’s continents between them. their final scene is devoid of any emotion while simultaneously brimming with intensity. there’s burning hatred cautiously fighting with undying love, undying adoration. it’s hauntingly callous. bryon actively fights that second of hesitation you feel when you still love somebody who’s done you wrong. once you read the final page, you’re left with your thoughts and your reflections. this is the type of book that makes you stare at the wall, this is the type of book that makes you contemplate. nostalgia can be comforting, but it can never truly be a full escape from your reality.
December 28, 2017
S.E. Hinton said this about That Was Then, This Is Now: "The Outsiders made you feel. That Was Then, This Is Now will make you think." That could not be more true. I feel and love and cry over Ponyboy and his story, however, I want to question, analyze, and interrogate Bryon and Mark about their stories. I know others didn't particularly like how Pony was portrayed in this story, but I think it's good he was included to keep those who loved The Outsiders so much reading another book. You get so focused on Ponyboy and his gang, you forget there could be so many other characters leading similar (or maybe not so similar) lives.
I don't think all the references to drugs are appropriate for young readers, but historically speaking, it's accurate for the setting (both time and place). I almost want to teach this book as well because there is SO much to analyze. I really did like it though and will probably read it again to see what I take away with a second reading.
I don't think all the references to drugs are appropriate for young readers, but historically speaking, it's accurate for the setting (both time and place). I almost want to teach this book as well because there is SO much to analyze. I really did like it though and will probably read it again to see what I take away with a second reading.
January 15, 2013
Do you like gangs, drugs and hustling for money? Well then you’ll love this book. This book is about the criminal life of 16 year old Bryon. Bryon and his best friend Mark used to spend most of their time pool hustling and mugging people. Ever since they were kids they loved to fight. Almost every day they would mug people or hustle them in pool for money. One night that completely changed for Bryon. Their good friend Charlie ran the bar they would hustle in. One night when Bryon and Mark were leaving Charlie’s bar they got called into an ally. Charlie came to the rescue just in time but got shot. Now for Bryon, the thug life doesn’t seem so appealing. The two friends stop seeing each other and begin to grow apart. This book grabbed me from the first page and drove me to read more. S.E. Hinton did a great job with suspense and twists.
August 28, 2008
This is a coming of age story about two best friends, and what happens to them when they start to mature and grow apart. It is a story about friendship, loyalty, and mostly how the difference between right and wrong is subjective. There is excellent character development, and although the book is short (I finished it in a few hours) by the end you feel for every character in the story, as if you really know them. Recommended for anyone who liked The Outsiders.
September 10, 2018
Audio #148
I don’t think I could have survived puberty without the Brat Pack and S E Hinton. I read all 4 of her novels repeatedly for years. Then drooled over the casts of the movies. I felt a bit nostalgic when I noticed this audiobook at my library and immediately checked it out. I traveled back in time. Of course how I feel about the storyline now is not nearly as overpowering as it was 35 years ago, but I appreciated the flashback. I think I’ll seek out the other three too.
I don’t think I could have survived puberty without the Brat Pack and S E Hinton. I read all 4 of her novels repeatedly for years. Then drooled over the casts of the movies. I felt a bit nostalgic when I noticed this audiobook at my library and immediately checked it out. I traveled back in time. Of course how I feel about the storyline now is not nearly as overpowering as it was 35 years ago, but I appreciated the flashback. I think I’ll seek out the other three too.
December 28, 2017
In her afterward, Hinton mentions that this book was written while fighting through writer's block. It shows. The character dynamics and plot development are very forced and after school special-ish. The characters and situations are dated and awkward. Overall, this is an overrated book that scores some cheap fan points through a cameo by Ponyboy.
May 24, 2021
I had high hopes for the sequel to The Outsiders. However, their was a lot of drugs, a dissatisfying ending, no true moral, and the main character hated Ponyboy. Sorry, I will pick Ponyboy over Bryon every time.
July 19, 2022
Summary: people are messed up and unconscious feelings of hatred crawl up to ruin your life and that of everyone around you.
I loved this--especially the dark turn it took.
I mean, I didn't love what happened, but it felt so real and soul-crushing. And sometimes, that's exactly what I need.
I loved this--especially the dark turn it took.
I mean, I didn't love what happened, but it felt so real and soul-crushing. And sometimes, that's exactly what I need.
September 22, 2020
There was no plot. :/
January 27, 2023
“you know what the crummiest feeling you can have is? to hate the person you love the best in the world.”
welp that broke me.
there needs to be a rule against s.e. hinton writing books that destroy me 😂 i think anyone who enjoyed the outsiders would enjoy this. i...... oh my word the characters..... they felt so.... real. i genuinely felt like i understood them, despite having never grown up in a gang environment where i had to survive. there are just certain things about these characters that feel universal, you know?
i know a lot of people didn't like bryon, especially after , but i personally loved him. i'm not entirely sure if he made the right decision, but i also don't think we should hate his character for that choice. he was just a 16 year old, struggling to make the best choice he could with the information he had at the time. he was still processing . truth be told, bryon felt like one of the most realistic teen characters i've ever read.
also- while i loved the crossovers with the outsiders, the inclusion of ponyboy just felt....... off. he didn't feel like ponyboy. he felt very bland and i- didn't really like him. ALSO I'M STILL MAD THEY DIDN'T INCLUDE SODA
i think the biggest difference between the outsiders and this was the maturity level. i'd feel comfortable handing the outsiders to anyone over the age of 12, while that was then, this is now was clearly aimed at high schoolers. between the sexual references and the drug abuse storyline, i felt like it was aimed at more mature readers.
all i have to say is that if you liked the outsiders and/or want to learn more about the dark side of the hippie movement, i'd recommend this (:
cw: death, drug overdose (the person survives, but... it's really disturbing), fighting, non graphic sexual references, mild language, underage drinking, drug abuse, a really tragic ending that d e s t r o y e d me
welp that broke me.
there needs to be a rule against s.e. hinton writing books that destroy me 😂 i think anyone who enjoyed the outsiders would enjoy this. i...... oh my word the characters..... they felt so.... real. i genuinely felt like i understood them, despite having never grown up in a gang environment where i had to survive. there are just certain things about these characters that feel universal, you know?
i know a lot of people didn't like bryon, especially after , but i personally loved him. i'm not entirely sure if he made the right decision, but i also don't think we should hate his character for that choice. he was just a 16 year old, struggling to make the best choice he could with the information he had at the time. he was still processing . truth be told, bryon felt like one of the most realistic teen characters i've ever read.
also- while i loved the crossovers with the outsiders, the inclusion of ponyboy just felt....... off. he didn't feel like ponyboy. he felt very bland and i- didn't really like him. ALSO I'M STILL MAD THEY DIDN'T INCLUDE SODA
i think the biggest difference between the outsiders and this was the maturity level. i'd feel comfortable handing the outsiders to anyone over the age of 12, while that was then, this is now was clearly aimed at high schoolers. between the sexual references and the drug abuse storyline, i felt like it was aimed at more mature readers.
all i have to say is that if you liked the outsiders and/or want to learn more about the dark side of the hippie movement, i'd recommend this (:
cw: death, drug overdose (the person survives, but... it's really disturbing), fighting, non graphic sexual references, mild language, underage drinking, drug abuse, a really tragic ending that d e s t r o y e d me
July 27, 2024
I read this in grammar school and it was a far cry from the Beverly Cleary books that I read.
September 22, 2022
I like The Outsiders more, but Ms. Hinton shows us with her second book that she can, indeed, stay gold. And I'll admit that this is the better written book. She improves a lot between ages 16 and 20, but some of the minor annoyances are still there. And I loved the story in this one; just look at all the stars I gave it. But there's a special place in my heart for The Outsiders mostly due to the movie, and that's that. And how awesome is it that Ponyboy makes a brief appearance in this? Uber awesome! The dude's cool as a fan.
But this isn't about Ponyboy. It's about Bryon and Mark, besties who grow apart. Once Bryon started moving toward adulthood, I could barely put the book down. I understand him completely. I understand his feelings and turmoil. I understand his decisions (not that I would've made the same ones). I understand his eventual apathy. I understand his "just let me get the fuck away from here" attitude that's implied at the end. And yet I also understand Mark, though he's quite different from Byron. At least I understand part of Mark. I understand the hate, and I'm well acquainted with wanting to hold a grudge. For some people, not holding a grudge comes naturally. For me it takes a lot of work. My natural inclination is to despise the mahfah to the end of his days, and Mark was betrayed pretty severely. But I understand. Yet I also don't like it. I'm quite conflicted, but I'm not pissed off about it at all. Does any of this make sense? If so, you're doing better than me, because I can't make heads or tails of it myself. All I know is that I related to a lot of what was going on, and I loved reading this. S.E. Hinton can make some great characters, and just like with The Outsiders, it's the characters that drive the story and not vice versa. That's my kind of yarn, right there.
There are strange inconsistencies in this book, but I wouldn't change anything about it since Ms. Hinton seems to be prudish in the same areas that I am. There's violence ranging from minor rough-housing to murder. There's drug use to the point of brain damage. There's drinking to the point of intoxication. There's cigarette smoking, and all of this stuff is happening with 13 to 16-year-olds. Yet there's no profanity outside of an occasional hell or damn, and rough language is even commented on by our protagonists. There's also a lot of going out with chicks, but it all stops waaaaaaay short of sex, though I reckon it's implied. One minor character thought she was pregnant at one point, but you have to read between the lines to catch that. This came out in 1971, and was made for the young adult genre, so I suppose you could get only so graphic, but I found all of this kind of cute. I think there was some naivety on Hinton's part at work here, but I could be wrong.
And speaking of naivety, it's funny watching hippies infiltrate Tulsa when a couple of years prior it was just greasers and preps. (At least I assume we're still in Tulsa, OK since Ponyboy was there, and I'm pretty sure that's where The Outsiders was set.) There were small comments throughout on how peaceful the hippies are, and then we get one line from Bryon about how they wouldn't even fight to defend themselves...
Redline it, baby. Such a line could be used to describe M&M, a pretty cool hippie character that I actually liked, but Bryon was applying it to all of hippiedom, and I really think that was just an extension of Hinton's actual beliefs. Again, I could be wrong.
If you like a good coming of age story with a rather sad ending (at least for a young adult book), then get at it.
But this isn't about Ponyboy. It's about Bryon and Mark, besties who grow apart. Once Bryon started moving toward adulthood, I could barely put the book down. I understand him completely. I understand his feelings and turmoil. I understand his decisions (not that I would've made the same ones). I understand his eventual apathy. I understand his "just let me get the fuck away from here" attitude that's implied at the end. And yet I also understand Mark, though he's quite different from Byron. At least I understand part of Mark. I understand the hate, and I'm well acquainted with wanting to hold a grudge. For some people, not holding a grudge comes naturally. For me it takes a lot of work. My natural inclination is to despise the mahfah to the end of his days, and Mark was betrayed pretty severely. But I understand. Yet I also don't like it. I'm quite conflicted, but I'm not pissed off about it at all. Does any of this make sense? If so, you're doing better than me, because I can't make heads or tails of it myself. All I know is that I related to a lot of what was going on, and I loved reading this. S.E. Hinton can make some great characters, and just like with The Outsiders, it's the characters that drive the story and not vice versa. That's my kind of yarn, right there.
There are strange inconsistencies in this book, but I wouldn't change anything about it since Ms. Hinton seems to be prudish in the same areas that I am. There's violence ranging from minor rough-housing to murder. There's drug use to the point of brain damage. There's drinking to the point of intoxication. There's cigarette smoking, and all of this stuff is happening with 13 to 16-year-olds. Yet there's no profanity outside of an occasional hell or damn, and rough language is even commented on by our protagonists. There's also a lot of going out with chicks, but it all stops waaaaaaay short of sex, though I reckon it's implied. One minor character thought she was pregnant at one point, but you have to read between the lines to catch that. This came out in 1971, and was made for the young adult genre, so I suppose you could get only so graphic, but I found all of this kind of cute. I think there was some naivety on Hinton's part at work here, but I could be wrong.
And speaking of naivety, it's funny watching hippies infiltrate Tulsa when a couple of years prior it was just greasers and preps. (At least I assume we're still in Tulsa, OK since Ponyboy was there, and I'm pretty sure that's where The Outsiders was set.) There were small comments throughout on how peaceful the hippies are, and then we get one line from Bryon about how they wouldn't even fight to defend themselves...
Redline it, baby. Such a line could be used to describe M&M, a pretty cool hippie character that I actually liked, but Bryon was applying it to all of hippiedom, and I really think that was just an extension of Hinton's actual beliefs. Again, I could be wrong.
If you like a good coming of age story with a rather sad ending (at least for a young adult book), then get at it.
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