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An Alternative History of Britain: The War of the Roses 1455 - 85
Timothy Venning's exploration of the alternative paths that British history might easily have taken moves on to the Wars of the Roses. What if Richard of York had not given battle in vain? How would a victory for Warwick the Kingmaker at the Battle of Barnet changed the course of the struggle for power? What if the Princes had escaped from the tower or the Stanleys had not betrayed their king at Bosworth? These are just a few of the fascinating questions posed by this book.
As always, while necessarily speculative, Dr. Venning discusses all the scenarios within the benefit of a deep understanding of the major driving forces, tensions, and trends that shaped British history. In so doing, he helps the listener to understand why things panned out as they did, as well as what might have been in this tumultuous period.
As always, while necessarily speculative, Dr. Venning discusses all the scenarios within the benefit of a deep understanding of the major driving forces, tensions, and trends that shaped British history. In so doing, he helps the listener to understand why things panned out as they did, as well as what might have been in this tumultuous period.
- GenresHistoryNonfiction
224 pages, Hardcover
First published April 19, 2013
5 people are currently reading
80 people want to read
About the author
Timothy Venning
45 books14 followersDr Timothy Venning is a freelance researcher and author. He studied history at Kings College, London to PhD level, winning the London University History Prize in 1979. He has written articles for the Dictionary of National Biography, as well as a book on Oliver Cromwell and reference works on British office-holders and the chronology of the Byzantine Empire. He also contributes to major biographical publications and his research forms the basis for many other publications.
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Displaying 1 - 6 of 6 reviews
October 24, 2013
When I first saw this book, I was immediately interested. How many have asked what might have happened if Richard III had won at the Battle of Bosworth? How many have asked what could have happened if Edward IV hadn't died so relatively young, leaving his underage son vulnerable?
After reading it, I found it interesting, but a little dry. Much of the book was devoted to the background information, and it felt like there were only a few paragraphs that actually speculate on what might have happened if things had gone differently. Much of the speculation was also fairly obvious, such as how Richard III would have obviously remarried after Bosworth in the hope of getting an heir, and there wasn't much speculation about the wider picture.
Overall, an interesting book, but I wish it had gone further than it had.
After reading it, I found it interesting, but a little dry. Much of the book was devoted to the background information, and it felt like there were only a few paragraphs that actually speculate on what might have happened if things had gone differently. Much of the speculation was also fairly obvious, such as how Richard III would have obviously remarried after Bosworth in the hope of getting an heir, and there wasn't much speculation about the wider picture.
Overall, an interesting book, but I wish it had gone further than it had.
January 9, 2021
An Alternative History of Britain: The Wars of the Roses
By Timothy Venning
Reviewed January 8, 2021
If you like pondering historical events, wondering how things might have changed if the outcome had been different, then you might enjoy An Alternative History of Britain: The Wars of the Roses. This is a decent enough book that explores numerous events that took place from the reign of Henry VI to the fall of the House of York and the rise of the Tudors under Henry VII, and explores the “what if” aspect.
The author has written a number of history books, quite a few having to do with alternative histories – if Rome hadn’t fallen, alternative histories of the Tudors, Normans and Early Plantagenets, the Hundred Years War, and others. Judging from the titles and number of books, I’d hazard a guess that Mr. Venning is well versed in the history he’s chosen to write about.
This book, which number 259 pages in length (at least that’s the page count of my digital edition) covers events in great detail. To give you an idea of the depth into which the author goes, here’s a sample of topics covered from “Chapter 2: The Yorkist Reaction” which covers the years 1453 to 1461. We start with “The opportunities offered by the King’s madness. The road to St. Albans, 1452-3,” and continue with:
--After St Albans—1455 to 1460
--Deposition – 1460-1
--The struggles of 1450-61: some further points for consideration
--A third deposition in 133 years, autumn 1460/March 1461 – how legal was it?
--The existence of Edward, Prince of Wales: the crucial reason for armed conflict, or only an excuse?
--Was the escalation of the struggle in 1451-9 inevitable? And how and why did this confrontation differ from earlier power-struggles?
--Ludlow 1459 and the deposition of Henry VI. A missed opportunity for the Queen to prevent further revolts?
--York’s genealogical luck
--The battle of Wakefield, 30 December 1460: if there had been no catastrophe how would it have affected the 1460s and 1470s?
--No bloodbath at Wakefield: York as king, followed by his son Edward IV?
Other chapters are equally deep in detail. But while a good understanding of what really happened helps in exploring these alternative scenarios, too much can bog the reader down with information overload, and there were times when I found myself skipping large sections, eager to get to something interesting!
I also found that the author often relied on traditional interpretations of events, either discarding or unaware of newer research. For example, it is taken for granted that Richard of Gloucester was always ambitious (name me a medieval noble who wasn’t!); that George of Clarence, as Anne Neville’s guardian following the death of her first husband, was perfectly within his rights to refuse to let her marry Richard; that the pre-contract was created out of thin air; that it was most likely that he (Richard) rather than the Woodvilles who was doing the plotting; and so on. But maybe that’s part of the alternative history?
By Timothy Venning
Reviewed January 8, 2021
If you like pondering historical events, wondering how things might have changed if the outcome had been different, then you might enjoy An Alternative History of Britain: The Wars of the Roses. This is a decent enough book that explores numerous events that took place from the reign of Henry VI to the fall of the House of York and the rise of the Tudors under Henry VII, and explores the “what if” aspect.
The author has written a number of history books, quite a few having to do with alternative histories – if Rome hadn’t fallen, alternative histories of the Tudors, Normans and Early Plantagenets, the Hundred Years War, and others. Judging from the titles and number of books, I’d hazard a guess that Mr. Venning is well versed in the history he’s chosen to write about.
This book, which number 259 pages in length (at least that’s the page count of my digital edition) covers events in great detail. To give you an idea of the depth into which the author goes, here’s a sample of topics covered from “Chapter 2: The Yorkist Reaction” which covers the years 1453 to 1461. We start with “The opportunities offered by the King’s madness. The road to St. Albans, 1452-3,” and continue with:
--After St Albans—1455 to 1460
--Deposition – 1460-1
--The struggles of 1450-61: some further points for consideration
--A third deposition in 133 years, autumn 1460/March 1461 – how legal was it?
--The existence of Edward, Prince of Wales: the crucial reason for armed conflict, or only an excuse?
--Was the escalation of the struggle in 1451-9 inevitable? And how and why did this confrontation differ from earlier power-struggles?
--Ludlow 1459 and the deposition of Henry VI. A missed opportunity for the Queen to prevent further revolts?
--York’s genealogical luck
--The battle of Wakefield, 30 December 1460: if there had been no catastrophe how would it have affected the 1460s and 1470s?
--No bloodbath at Wakefield: York as king, followed by his son Edward IV?
Other chapters are equally deep in detail. But while a good understanding of what really happened helps in exploring these alternative scenarios, too much can bog the reader down with information overload, and there were times when I found myself skipping large sections, eager to get to something interesting!
I also found that the author often relied on traditional interpretations of events, either discarding or unaware of newer research. For example, it is taken for granted that Richard of Gloucester was always ambitious (name me a medieval noble who wasn’t!); that George of Clarence, as Anne Neville’s guardian following the death of her first husband, was perfectly within his rights to refuse to let her marry Richard; that the pre-contract was created out of thin air; that it was most likely that he (Richard) rather than the Woodvilles who was doing the plotting; and so on. But maybe that’s part of the alternative history?
August 5, 2023
I'm not sure what I was expecting, but it definitely wasn't the boring as hell book that this is.
Ok I accept that the research is present and very well done, the sources where each piece of information was obtained are also placed, but other than that I did not find anything else that I like.
The writing is summarized in long paragraphs and messy chapters.
Although the investigation is present, the author clings to the same old beliefs and versions of the facts, most of which do not have solid foundations or the author does not bother I won't go point by point just to give examples;
"Edward of Lancaster, was a wicked and vengeful young man" Who said it? What proves do we have ? NOTHING...... nothing is even known about his appearance and personality, we only know that an ambassador who met him when he was 4 years old described him as a child who only talked about executions... Tell me crazy but the children of 4 years old repeat what adults say and I doubt that a person's perception defines the personality of someone he barely saw.
"Isabella Neville and Anne Neville had tuberculosis all their lives and they died from it, so it is impossible that they were important in any way in their marriages or in politics" Who in their time mentioned tuberculosis next to the name of any of them? No one... Who really knew them described them as sickly or weak? No one... It's possible of course... but both were important noblewomen who belonged to the royal family, who visited many abbeys, churches, castles and even a foreign court (that of France) How come no one made a reference to a disease that made them so weak? Or something about their bad condition? I mean one of them was a queen.
Yes, it is probable that they died of tuberculosis, but it is also probable that they died of a hundred other common diseases at the time, and due to their few appearances in the registry, I don't know why a historian could be surprised or take it as a direct indicator of a disease. I am not a historian but I can notice that other duchesses of that and other generations are poorly registered, their biographies are minuscule, so apart from the novels I don't know where a theory comes from.
"Richard III had a serious plan to marry his niece Elizabeth" According to whom? According to what document? Because Philippa Gregory say that? ..... The author does not even bother to hide that this has no evidence but some rumors that are not even clear and that are added to the dozen rumors that were spreading although no one gives credit to the others..... .
And so I can go on for hours, I may or may not agree with some of the classical theories but the fact that this book is closed to them is disappointing.
Being a book that promises to look for that complex "WHAT IF" answer, I had high expectations, apparently too many, I thought it could be a kind of historical introduction and then we would have a fictional story that would show the impact that a "what if" would have had, or perhaps a purely historical analysis of how death or a different birth, would have changed the course of Great Britain, or perhaps I would have liked a story that was in the middle of fiction and history, but NO, the only thing we have is a historical recount of the facts, the same as you find in any historical book on the subject, it does not add anything new, the author does not present interesting theories or intriguing questions, after about 30 pages of reading history facts we have half a paragraph of it " What if" that turned out to be nothing, an insight or two from historical people who were able to get married instead of other characters, and sentences just like "If Clarence didn't died would have been king " ooook yes we know he was next in line but what type of king would he have been? ..... what would have happened with his son and daughter? What would have happened with Richard .... This is just an example but in general there is not really the alternative factor that I was hoping to find in this book and it's not entertaining.
Ok I accept that the research is present and very well done, the sources where each piece of information was obtained are also placed, but other than that I did not find anything else that I like.
The writing is summarized in long paragraphs and messy chapters.
Although the investigation is present, the author clings to the same old beliefs and versions of the facts, most of which do not have solid foundations or the author does not bother I won't go point by point just to give examples;
"Edward of Lancaster, was a wicked and vengeful young man" Who said it? What proves do we have ? NOTHING...... nothing is even known about his appearance and personality, we only know that an ambassador who met him when he was 4 years old described him as a child who only talked about executions... Tell me crazy but the children of 4 years old repeat what adults say and I doubt that a person's perception defines the personality of someone he barely saw.
"Isabella Neville and Anne Neville had tuberculosis all their lives and they died from it, so it is impossible that they were important in any way in their marriages or in politics" Who in their time mentioned tuberculosis next to the name of any of them? No one... Who really knew them described them as sickly or weak? No one... It's possible of course... but both were important noblewomen who belonged to the royal family, who visited many abbeys, churches, castles and even a foreign court (that of France) How come no one made a reference to a disease that made them so weak? Or something about their bad condition? I mean one of them was a queen.
Yes, it is probable that they died of tuberculosis, but it is also probable that they died of a hundred other common diseases at the time, and due to their few appearances in the registry, I don't know why a historian could be surprised or take it as a direct indicator of a disease. I am not a historian but I can notice that other duchesses of that and other generations are poorly registered, their biographies are minuscule, so apart from the novels I don't know where a theory comes from.
"Richard III had a serious plan to marry his niece Elizabeth" According to whom? According to what document? Because Philippa Gregory say that? ..... The author does not even bother to hide that this has no evidence but some rumors that are not even clear and that are added to the dozen rumors that were spreading although no one gives credit to the others..... .
And so I can go on for hours, I may or may not agree with some of the classical theories but the fact that this book is closed to them is disappointing.
Being a book that promises to look for that complex "WHAT IF" answer, I had high expectations, apparently too many, I thought it could be a kind of historical introduction and then we would have a fictional story that would show the impact that a "what if" would have had, or perhaps a purely historical analysis of how death or a different birth, would have changed the course of Great Britain, or perhaps I would have liked a story that was in the middle of fiction and history, but NO, the only thing we have is a historical recount of the facts, the same as you find in any historical book on the subject, it does not add anything new, the author does not present interesting theories or intriguing questions, after about 30 pages of reading history facts we have half a paragraph of it " What if" that turned out to be nothing, an insight or two from historical people who were able to get married instead of other characters, and sentences just like "If Clarence didn't died would have been king " ooook yes we know he was next in line but what type of king would he have been? ..... what would have happened with his son and daughter? What would have happened with Richard .... This is just an example but in general there is not really the alternative factor that I was hoping to find in this book and it's not entertaining.
March 11, 2021
This book had a GREAT premise: What would have happened if... one side in the "War of the Roses" would have one a particular battle instead of the other? What would have happened if Richard III had won the Battle of Bosworth instead of Henry Tudor? I'm always up for a good book about the War of the Roses, so....
If only the execution had lived up to the premise. It did not. The book begins w/ a great deal of exposition about which "side" was what and questioning whether Henry VI was a "saintly fool" or more competent than thought. There was exposition when it wasn't needed, and none where it would have been helpful. And a LOT of time was spent speculating on the various pretenders to Henry Tudor's throne, w/o the "what if Simnel or Warbeck won their skirmishes w/ Henry?" Most of us consider the "Wars" over when Henry Tudor ascended the throne and married the Yorkist heir, Elizabeth of York. Apparently not this author.
There are better books about the Wars. The final blow for me was that the book ended at 77%, b/c it was the Kindle version. So again, I was left wondering, "Is there anything else?" There wasn't even a conclusion - just an end of the discussion, and then the notes begin. Hmph.
If only the execution had lived up to the premise. It did not. The book begins w/ a great deal of exposition about which "side" was what and questioning whether Henry VI was a "saintly fool" or more competent than thought. There was exposition when it wasn't needed, and none where it would have been helpful. And a LOT of time was spent speculating on the various pretenders to Henry Tudor's throne, w/o the "what if Simnel or Warbeck won their skirmishes w/ Henry?" Most of us consider the "Wars" over when Henry Tudor ascended the throne and married the Yorkist heir, Elizabeth of York. Apparently not this author.
There are better books about the Wars. The final blow for me was that the book ended at 77%, b/c it was the Kindle version. So again, I was left wondering, "Is there anything else?" There wasn't even a conclusion - just an end of the discussion, and then the notes begin. Hmph.
October 10, 2021
A fascinating look at how things could have turned out, but did not explaining a lot of the intricacies of the period. I found the post Bosworth period more interesting as I have not realised how much plotting and revolts had happened. Henry VII proved a canny operator and deserved to have suceced as he did. No wonder, Henry VIII proved to be a 'Tudor Stalin' and why Elizabeth was paranoid about internal plot not only from Catholics. As someone wrote, “Uneasy is the head that wears the crown.”
April 21, 2025
How exciting to find this book and then how disappointing to read it. The writing is so very hard to follow that I had to reread portions several times. Did not finish after getting through the first chapter. Waste of money. :`-(
Displaying 1 - 6 of 6 reviews