Elegie

by Propertius, R. Grazich (Editor)

Le appassionate liriche d'amore per Cinzia, la donna amata, e quelle incentrate sulle antiche leggende della Roma arcaica, nella raccolta di quattro libri di elegie di Sesto Properzio (50 ca-15 a.C.), contemporaneo di Virgilio e Ovidio e originale esponente della cultura dell'era augustea.

Genres: Poetry, Classics, Ancient, Roman, Literature, Fiction, Ancient History

322 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 16

About the author

Sextus Aurelius Propertius was a Latin elegiac poet who was born around 50–45 BCE in Mevania (though other cities of Umbria also claim this dignity—Hespillus, Ameria, Perusia, Assisium) and died shortly after 15 BCE.

Propertius' surviving work comprises four books of Elegies. He was friends with the poets Gallus and Virgil, and had with them as his patron Maecenas, and through Maecenas, the emperor Augustus.

Reviews

[Yann · Rating 5 out of 5]

Toujours dans la veine des poètes latins, après un Catulle tout à la fois impétueux et tendre, après un Tibulle irénique et volage, voici Properce, passionnément fidèle et attaché à sa Cynthie, et terriblement voluptueux. C'est sans doute de ces trois auteurs le plus vivant, le plus touchant et celui qui donne le plus de présence à cette antiquité disparue. Properce célèbre les délices de l'amour, et rien de ce qui peut le rendre plus piquant ne semble lui être étranger.

Il y a tout d'abord une fidélité à toute épreuve, que rien ne vient entamer. Il est clair que pour lui, tout papillonnage lui enlèverait tout le plaisir qu'il sent à se consacrer tout entier à son idole. Mais il lui faut encore sentir les marques de cet attachement passionné qu'il souhaite inspirer en retour, et rien n'y parvient mieux que ces fureurs impétueuses, que ces reproches amères, que ces querelles impatientes et ravageuses que font naître l'inquiétude de la jalousie. Tout ce qui sent la passion le ravit, et pour rien au monde on sent qu'il ne voudrait d'une maîtresse froide et raisonnable. Ses rigueurs sont pour notre amant autant de délices, et lui même ne laisse pas de piquer son amour à l'aiguillon de la jalousie, afin qu'il ne s'affadisse pas.

La production de Properce est abondante. A côté de scènes de vie émouvantes, il mobilise une vaste érudition dans ses comparaisons. Un appareil critique riche permet de suivre le fil de l'ensemble de ses allusions. Comme Tibulle, il considère que l'amour vaut mieux que la guerre, même s'il insiste moins. Un point intéressant et qui m'a fait penser à L'émancipation féminine dans la Rome antique, c'est l'évocation des religion orientales à mystère qui arrivent à Rome. Le frétillant Properce semble peu goûter l'engouement de sa Cynthia pour ces nouveautés qui le privent de privautés dont il est fort impatient:

Pour ma tristesse, voici déjà revenues à nouveau les solennités: Cynthie a déjà officié pendant dix nuits. Et qu'elles périssent ces cérémonies que la fille d'Inachus, depuis les tièdes rivages du Nil, a envoyé aux matrones ausoniennes! Quelle est cette déesse qui a tant de fois séparé des amants aussi épris? Quelle qu'elle eût été, ce fut toujours une déesse amère. [...] N'est-ce pas assez pour toi de l'Égypte aux enfants basanés? Pourquoi avoir fait une si longue route pour atteindre Rome? A quoi te sert-il que les jeunes femmes dorment seules? Mais toi, crois-moi, tu auras de nouveau des cornes ou bien, nous, cruelle, nous te chasserons de notre ville; il n'y a jamais eu de bonnes grâces entre le Tibre et le Nil.

Mais il semble que son amour l'ai rendu sensible au mysticisme, et lorsque sa maîtresse périt, il croit voir son fantôme venir se pencher sur son lit pour lui faire une dernière fois des reproches affectueux. Il termine par une évocation de sa propre disparition. En somme, un livre de poésies à cœur ouvert pour plonger dans l'intimité de la vie de ces romains.

[Roman Clodia · Rating 4 out of 5]

Following Catullus' Lesbia poems, Propertius is the first of the Latin erotic elegists proper and has a deep influence on Ovid. Guy Lee's translation is fluent and flowing but doesn't really convey the texture of the Latin originals.

The Cynthia poems which sit at the heart of the Propertian texts go on to have a profound impact on the dynamics of erotic love as represented in western literature so it is definitely worth reading this first to see how literary erotic love develops under Petrarch, Wyatt, Sidney etc.

In lots of ways Propertius gets squeezed out between the rawness of Catullus and the mocking self-knowingness of Ovid but he plays an important role in the erotic love tradition. And the poems themselves are vibrant and often very wittily clever.

If you have even a little Latin then the Loeb is probably a better buy, but if you don't then this is a fine alternative.

[Uroš Đurković · Rating 4 out of 5]

Ka nekim čitanjima vode kriva ubeđenja. Tako je bilo i sad. Mislio sam da ću se susreti sa nečim beskrajno zamornim, zanimljivim samo za stručnjake i zalutale.

Kad ono! Istorija ljubavne lirike mi je postala jasnija. Kao i to da Petrarka nije nikakav revolucinoar, već obnovitelj. Skoro sve po čemu je petrarkizam prepoznatljiv, može se naći kod Proprecija. Ali umesto Laure, tu je Cintija. I tu je zanos i muka i potreba da se kroz stih sebi olakša. Ali i da se nešto ovekoveči – mnogi stihovi ovde upućuju ne samo na mitološko nasleđe, već i na slavu, trajanje koje prevazilazi i pesmu, pa i ljubav samu. „Prekratka je ljubav, ma kolko da trajeˮ (24), ali u pesmi se dešavaju čudesni preobražaji: upravo ono što je uvek nedovoljno, ostaje okamenjeno. Otuda ne čude momenti kada se lirski subjekat obraća prirodi: drvima i stenju, uz jedan komentar upućen samoj pesničkoj komunikaciji: „Šta to skrivih ja? Koji promeni stih te?ˮ (21). A priroda mu odgovara jekom. Eho radi svoje.

Cintija je prgavija od Laure, ali i aktivnija. Trenuci nesporazuma, pa i zanosa iznose se neposredno, ali ne i prizemno. I mada Amor može da takvom zaslepi ljubavlju, da će i kosti da je vazda pamte (23), iskrenost se, ironično, ističe kao nešto što može samo naškoditi (48). Ljubavne uzburkanosti dočarane su i kroz sliku bande nagih dečaka (kupidončića), što nose baklje, strele i lance, da sasvim poraze zaljubaljenog (57). Mada, u odnosu na spregu nasilja i ljubavi, valja imati na umu i ove stihove: „I ja bih pred dragom tukao se svojom, / samo da u borbi mi zajedno mremoˮ (29).

Još jedan razlog zbog kog ovakva izdanja raduju su komentari prevodilaca i priređivača; fusnote su pune dragulja koje nagrađuju pažljive čitaoce. Nisam znao, na primer, da je oniks posudica za mast kojom bi se telo namazalo pre spaljivanja. To da ću, čitajući ljubavne elegije, saznati štošta o pogrebnim običajima, nisam očekivao, ali sve takve usputnosti su dobrodošle.

[Evan Leach · Rating 3 out of 5]

“I wish my enemy a placid girl-friend.” (iii. 8. 20)

Luckily (from the poet's perspective), Propertius was not cursed with a placid girlfriend. Instead, he fell for a woman named Cynthia who drove him so crazy that he devoted most of his poetry towards memorializing their schizophrenic relationship.

Unlike Horace and Virgil, Propertius focused his efforts on love poems in the style of Catullus. This book contains all of 92 of them, divided into four books published from roughly 29 to 15 b.c. All of the poems are written using the elegiac couplet. The first three books are squarely focused on Propertius' relationship with his lover, Cynthia. Their affair is presented immediately as a stormy and torturous relationship, and veers wildly between emotional extremes. The fourth book, written after Cynthia's death, shifts focus from love poems to aetiological poetry (poems explaining the meaning of names) in the manner of Callimachus.

Propertius doesn't quite reach the heights set by Horace, Ovid, and Virgil, but his work is very good and comparable with the poems of Catullus. Propertius has a way of blending the epic and mythical into his love poetry, while remaining self-aware enough that it never feels heavy-handed. However, it never becomes so self-aware as to seem cynical. Book I is probably the strongest of the four (i. 8a is probably my favorite of all the poems), but there are standouts throughout the collection (including ii. 1, iii. 5, and iv. 11).

Ultimately, this isn't a must-read collection, in the sense that Propertius is probably the fourth-most important Augustan poet (after Virgil, Ovid, and Horace in some order). But he's not terribly far behind, and fans of the other Augustan poets will find this collection quite enjoyable. 3.5 stars.

[Mateo R.]

Leída una selección de poemas del libro 1 (el Monobiblos, también conocido como Cynthia). Si bien lo disfruté bastante, probablemente no fue por las razones correctas: no podía dejar de reírme. Propercio lleva el amor y el patetismo hasta el paroxismo y el ridículo. En general, el amor es representado como enfermedad, y la súplica y el llanto como eficaces herramientas para "dominar a la veloz doncella". El amor trastorna de tal modo que lleva a la locura (insania amoris). La mujer es representada como dominante, como fácil porque está con otros y cruel porque no está conmigo, y como potencialmente dañina para la reputación. Básicamente fuente del mal y la perdición pero a la vez de los sentimientos más intensos y desconcertantes para nuestro pobre poeta, víctima perpetua.

El yo poético, si bien trastornado hasta la demencia y goteando lágrimas sobre sus versos, clama y actúa como praeceptor amoris: aconseja a otros hombres, ingenuos, de lo que les espera si se enamoran también de su Cynthia o de mujeres como ella. Un poco como el protagonista lovecraftiano cuya mente ha quedado tocada tras lidiar con el horror cósmico =P

Un par de poemas que se me quedaron en la cabeza:

El I.II es una suasoria de la belleza natural de la mujer, un poco como el nice guy actual que despotrica contra el maquillaje por las peores razones. Equipara la belleza natural con la mujer casta y monógama, y los adornos con la mujer adúltera. La mujer debe sentir "hastío por los lujos despreciables", asevera el poeta que -oh curiosa coincidencia- es paupérrimo.

El I.XVI es interesante. Hay un tópico literario llamado paraclausithyron (la puerta cerrada), en el que el amante llora ante la puerta que su amada le cerró en la cara ("Puerta, más cruel que tu misma dueña, ¿por qué, atrancada, callas con hojas que me son tan esquivas? [...] ¿Es que no se concederá fin a mi dolor y dormiré vergonzosamente en tu indiferente umbral? De mí la media noche, de mí, aquí tirado, las estrellas que llenan el Cielo, y la fría Aurora con el hielo de la mañana de mí se compadecen"). Propercio además invierte el tópico haciendo que la propia puerta, personificada, cante en el poema :D

"Yo, que antaño fui abierta para grandes triunfos, puerta conocida por el pudor de Tarpeya, y cuyos umbrales, humedecidos por las lágrimas de los prisioneros suplicantes, adornaron con frecuencia carros de oro, ahora, herida por las peleas nocturnas de borrachos, me quejo de ser a menudo golpeada por manos indignas [...]".

[Jenna · Rating 4 out of 5]

I'll be honest: I only read the first two volumes of this book in their entirety, then skimmed the last two volumes. My current interest is in love poetry, not poetry about the greatness of Caesar, etc., after all. While it seems that this is the most scholarly/well-researched translation out there, I was rather disappointed by the fact that it doesn't read like poetry at all. This translation is a prose translation -- a fact that needn't necessarily have been a limitation (there *is* such a thing as prose poetry, after all) except that it was. Despite the wide gulf between Latin original and English translation, some of these poems still shine -- particularly the narrative poems, the poems that vividly recount neurotic dreams, and the hilariously chest-thumping poems that proclaim "One girl is not enough" ("The worship of Venus has never been hard work for me... Often a girl has discovered that I can do my duty all night through, and if perchance with an unkind look she called a halt, cold sweat would run down my brow."). Propertius's technically skilled compositions (Just imagine writing a long, colloquial-sounding poem entirely in end-stopped couplets, for starters!) convey ideas about romantic love that have become so entrenched in Western culture that they seem a bit trite now -- through no fault of Propertius's own, of course. Arguably, the mythological allusions come on a bit too heavy at times (even for a mythology buff like me), but I still think Propertius is a poet worth being familiar with. In the future, I'll stick to looser but more lyrical translations, though.

[Caroline · Rating 2 out of 5]

Translations are very stilted in the first book , which is reputedly the freshest and most revolutionary of the poetry that Propertius wrote. They become smoother and easier to read in the following books.

[Kyo · Rating 2 out of 5]

(2.5 stars)
Let me start out by saying that I love Propertius and especially book 4, but I'm not the biggest fan of Hutchinson's commentary. While interesting, it is not really useful when reading the text and he is more likely to give many points in one entry, than to split them up, which can make it unneccesary tiresome to find something about a specific word/phrase. Moreover, in the text itself he has decided not to change the order of the text most of the times, even when it would make sense to do so (as Goold does in his Loeb-edition). He is much more likely to mark it as corrupt and discuss the possibilities in his commentary, though again sometimes slightly vague or at least unclear which choices would be made on what grounds (e.g there is one point where he says "X is completely unlikely" or "X would be impossible" without explaining why ). This also goes with certain words or phrases that are suspect, which he barely changes if the proposed change was not found in any of the exitant texts/manuscripts. Though, it must be said that his critical apparatus was extensive and inclusive.

I'd definitely recommend Propertius to everyone, but perhaps not this commentary.

[James Carrigy · Rating 4 out of 5]

8/10

"But let my peers see tooth-marks on my neck;
Let bruises show that I've been with my mistress.
In love I want to suffer or hear suffering,
To see my own tears or else yours,
When you send back hidden meanings with your eyebrows
Or with your fingers secret signals.
I hate the sleep that sighing never punctuates,
Want always to grow pale at female rage." - Propertius, Poem 8 Book III

No couple of the ancient world has ever been so hideously down bad and matched each other's freak in the way that Propertius and Cynthia did.

[James Carrigy · Rating 3 out of 5]

7/10

Favourite Poems: "Cynthia's Ghost" and "An Evening Party Wrecked".

Uh, spoiler alert I guess, but you can probably work out from one of those two titles why I think this collection of Elegies isn't Propertius' best.

[Deni · Rating 5 out of 5]

Leí la edición de Gredos, no esta.

Propercio, el preferido de Pound, poeta elegíaco, lleva este género a su paroxismo. Por momentos un poco sobrecargado, por momentos simplemente genial, su poesía recorre la pasión hasta el punto de volverse tanto conmovedora como hilarante. Este poeta decide renunciar a la épica, al poema de las armas, y se dedica a fondo a la tarea del poema de amor, principalmente cantando a su Cintia. Esto lo diferencia de todos los otros poetas romanos que he leído que no pueden evitar recaer en el deseo de abarcar otros géneros para extender el eco de su gloria. En este sentido podríamos encasillarlo junto a Catulo, pero siendo éste un evidente influjo en Propercio me parece un tanto injusto: Catulo es el fundador de una lengua, Propercio quien recoge el enorme caudal de genio que su predecesor le legó y escribe cuatro libros de una contundencia arrebatadora.

Dejo un poema que en particular me llamó la atención del libro tercero, pero advierto que no es representativo de todos los otros, debido a que su estilo es variable y abundante en recursos.

Dulce me resultó la bronca de ayer a la luz de los candiles,
y las maldiciones sin cuento de tu boca furiosa,
cuando, enloquecida por el vino, empujaste la mesa y contra mí
arrojaste copas repletas con manos furiosas.
¡Pero, venga, atrévete a tirarme de los pelos
y a marcar mi cara con tus lindas uñas;
amenázame con quemarme los ojos con el fuego de una antorcha
y desnuda mi pecho rasgándome la túnica!
Son síntomas evidentes de una pasión sincera:
pues ninguna mujer sufre si no es por un amor profundo.
La mujer que lanza reproches con lengua rabiosa,
ésa se postra ante los pies de la poderosa Venus.
Ya se rodee, cuando sale, de un tropel de guardianes,
ya ocupe, cual Ménade poseída, toda la calle,
ya locas pesadillas aterroricen a menudo su timidez,
ya la conmueva en su desgracia el cuadro de una joven,
de estos sufrimientos del alma soy yo adivino certero:
conozco estas marcas usuales en un amor verdadero.
No es verdadera la fidelidad que no experimente riñas:
¡a mis enemigos toque una amada insensible!
Vean mis amigos heridas de mordiscos en mi cuello:
las moraduras muestren que he poseído a mi amada.
En el amor quiero sufrir o sentirte sufrir,
ver mis propias lágrimas o las tuyas,
si alguna vez envías con el entrecejo mensajes ocultos
o trazas con tus dedos letras secretas.
Detesto los sueños que nunca arrancan suspiros:
quisiera estar siempre pálido cuando ella está airada.

Más dulce era la pasión de Paris, cuando podía disfrutar
de su Helena entre las armas griegas.
Mientras vencen los dánaos, mientras resiste el troyano Héctor,
él sostiene las mayores batallas en el regazo de Helena.
O contigo o por ti siempre lucharé con mis rivales:
que no me agrada la paz cuando se trata de ti.
¡Alégrate de que ninguna sea tan hermosa! Lo sentirías,
si alguna lo fuera: ¡ahora puedes con razón ser altiva!

¡Mas a ti, que has tendido las redes en nuestro lecho,
no te falta nunca suegro ni una casa sin suegra!
Si ahora se te ha ofrecido la oportunidad de robarme una noche,
lo permitió su enojo conmigo, no su cariño por ti.

[Cynthia · Rating 4 out of 5]

Probably only deserves 3 stars as it's not as amazing as Ovid, but he writes all of his love poems to Cynthia. Extra star for having a mistress with such a cool name.

[Illiterate · Rating 4 out of 5]

I like the way Propertius uses extravagant love to fend off norms and demands. Top tip: 2(1).

[JV · Rating 5 out of 5]

"Às vezes no Brasil," - diz Barbara Heliodora - "o autor nunca escreveu, está experimentando. O diretor nunca dirigiu, está experimentando. Os atores nunca atuaram, estão experimentando. Daí o teatro é experimental mesmo." Ainda na mesma entrevista completa: "Eu nem sempre vejo haver um caminho experimental. Então não dá tempo daquela experiência maturar para um novo espetáculo e se abrir uma nova via. Quando abrem um caminho, logo o abandonam. Não se precisa chegar numa fórmula, mas sequer chegam a estabelecer uma linguagem - e quando é estabelecida, não é bem desenvolvida."

Eu seria leviano se dissesse o tradutor inculto ou despreparado. Longe disso, Guilherme Gontijo é um culto homem de letras que teve em conta uma enorme literatura antes de levar a cabo sua tradução. Contudo, temo que, observando tantos e tão diferentes autores simultaneamente, a tradução não se concretizou numa linguagem própria. Deixou impressão semelhante à descrita por Barbara Heliodora, um retalho de experimentos mais ou menos bem sucedidos. Senti uma confirmação dessa impressão quando do próprio tradutor li:

"Nestas possibilidades entre o latim de Propércio e meu português, várias soluções, que por sua vez ficam em várias posições e graus diferentes, foram tomadas, sem uma regra obrigatória, ou um dogma geral, que prescrevesse os limites da criação tradutória. Assim, em diversos pontos estive próximo do make it new e das propostas de Pound e dos concretistas; porém, como também tive como guias minha formação acadêmica e meus estudos filológicos, não operei exatamente uma transcriação radical: tentei, como via de regra, fazer uma poesia que não precisasse abandonar a semântica de estudo e achar esse lugar em que o texto em português pudesse produzir suas divergências sem deixar de ter um rigor acadêmico, sem deixar de produzir, como se deve esperar de todo trabalho, sua diversão. Deixar-me divergir ao mesmo tempo do poeta e do filólogo que trago em mim para poder criar, para poder também divertir, sem culpas."

A edição, a única completa do Brasil, é sem dúvidas conhecida dos latinistas e consta de um ensaio de mais de 70 páginas sobre a tradução - cifra que propriamente não lha encomenda. Também no âmbito da crítica construtiva, as cento e tantas páginas de notas às elegias poderiam vir junto ao texto principal. Lamento ainda que o conteúdo das notas pouco ressalte a arte poética do autor.

Muito ainda escreveria, comentando talvez a minha impressão das Elegias e de seu autor, mas deixo apenas o julgamento que é uma excelente obra e se não gosto da tradução que passe sem ela. Outros a louvem. Apenas isso: melhor que Pound, para entender Propércio sou mais Goethe em suas Römische Elegien. Não digo mais nada.

[AB · Rating 3 out of 5]

Idiot, what right have you to such a stream? And who
told you to turn your hand to epic?
There's not a hope of fame, Propertius, for you here;
Your little wheels must groove soft meadows.

I really wanted to like this one, and to some extant I did, but it felt slightly off putting. I'm not sure what exactly my issue was with it. On one hand, I read Ovid in his verses. Several poems are very obviously copied by Ovid. So I was instead drawn to remember Ovid, who I much prefer. Then, there are the constant back and forths of love. Propertius has them all, and I could feel it, but then I would remember the violence of Catullus. These poems were good, but even in the pit of passion they felt constrained. This is somethin that I cant place as either being the result of Propertius or the translator. The first book was especially bad for this. The second one felt much more natural, and as such I enjoyed it. When I really think of it, these poems felt academic. Something to be studied alongside the Latin, like a Loeb translation.

This is all not to say that I did not get pleasure out of these poems. There were some enjoyable ones. That being said, this translation just did not fit right with me. Oh well, I'll just have to give the Latin/another translation a read.

[Caspar "moved to storygraph" Bryant]

I've been entertaining this one for a week or so Propertius is an odd chap there's something about a love poet who opens his love poems with how awful love is that can lend to either tragedy or comedy and this felt more the latter. He's quite vituperative really he threatens his beloved Cynthia quite explicitly it's unpleasant and he really doesn't like that she dyed her hair blue. He does like it when she bites him.

Anyway so much of a love poet as he may be I really liked the couple elegies in here - the one for Paetus (drowned at sea) especially which is a potential influence on Milton and other though probably a degree of the translator's sway. Also very nice prosopopoeia in IV.7, Cynthia's Ghost which assumes the voice of the dead beloved from earlier (o dear) and berates Propertius (he deserves it)

odd little man

[MxMorganic · Rating 4 out of 5]

Propertius is perhaps the most relatable of the Roman poets, depicting in shockingly familiar ways the beautiful highs of love, the messy lows of heartbreak, and plenty in between. Lee’s insistence on fitting his meter often holds back his translation, but his English largely still captures the beauty of, and certainly captures the spirit of, Propertius’ Latin. ROAM Lyne’s introduction rather frustratingly neglects to so much as touch on the infamously troubled state of Propertian manuscripts, but is otherwise an enriching opening to the book.

Quibbles with this edition aside, Propertius’ poetry is very much worth reading, and so I can still comfortably recommend this book as a good way to do just that.

[Ophilia Adler · Rating 4 out of 5]

Not my fav (summer course book)

[evi]

el amor se interrumpe, nunca desaparece

[Lily Crawley]

questionable to say the very least.

[James Miller · Rating 4 out of 5]

As with all books of poetry there will be high and low points in here. Propertius' poetry is less abusive than Catullus (his predecessor), less (at least ostensibly) lauding of Augustus than Virgil, less hilarious than bits of Ovid, but has moments of genius all of its own.

Cynthia's visit from beyond the grave was a favourite as was her rage on discovering some sexual shenanigans. I also enjoyed the warnings on the dangers of love:

Don't be deceived because she's willing, Ponticus;
When a girl's yours her sting goes deeper.
Your eyes once caught, Love won't allow you to withdraw them
Or lie awake for someone else's sake.
He does not show until his hand touches the bone.
Run, whoever you are, from his temptations.
Stocks and stones are powerless to resist them,
Much less your poor lightweight soul.
So for goodness sake confess your error now. In love
It's often a relief to name one's ruin.

OR

Shun the desire to fight with a moody girl,
And proud speech, and long silence.
Do not, when she wants a thing, refuse ungraciously,
Nor let her kind words fall unheeded.
She comes, when slighted, in bad temper, and when wronged
Forgets to drop her rightful threats.
But the more humble you are and deferential to love,
The oftener you'll enjoy success.
He who forgoes freedom and the uncommitted heart
Can find abiding bliss with one girl

There is a cheerful humour in this mock advice.

The piece upon death too has some fabulous lines reflected many times in poetry since:

Cease, Paullus, to importúne my tomb with tears.
The black door opens to no prayers.
When once the dead have entered infernal jurisdiction
The roads are blocked by inexorable adamant.


And whilst I have never been the spouse left behind by a husband at war, I suspect that the sentiments there are eternal too (IV.iii).

I was not as impressed by the aetiological Callimachus material of book IV explaining the names of altars/Cattle markets etc., but the ancients clearly enjoyed this stuff and it is there in Virgil too.

The translation was pretty good - on those occasions I looked at the Latin (where I am by no means brilliant) it seemed pretty close - and it reads very well as the excerpts above suggest.

[Jordan Ayers · Rating 4 out of 5]

The elegies of Sextus Propertius are love elegies, and mostly focus on... well, love. If you're not into that, or think it's cheesy, I'm gonna stop you right now and say you should probably leave before you come in the front door.

Propertius is borderline (actually, more than borderline) obsessed with his girl Cynthia for the first two straight books of his published poetry, and I have to say it's actually sort of a compelling read just seeing him go from poem to poem, totally in love in one, and frustrated with her the next, to back again. All this is told with some of the most flowery prose (of course, I was reading an English translation, so it was hardly poetry anymore) you could really ask for.

Unfortunately (though fortunately for him, I think) in Book 3 of Propertius' poetry (spoilers) his relationship with Cynthia basically ends and he writes her off but for good. What follows is a fourth book of what seems like some less heavily guided poetry to me, almost as though having lost his Muse, Propertius just doesn't know what to write about anymore. He tells mythical stories with his poetry, and writes about how things got their names, and etc. It's all a bit wishy washy to me compared to his previous laser-like focus on his love.

That being said, I'm sure that to someone smarter than me there are all sorts of historical and otherwise values to reading Propertius, but if you're just reading it for entertainment (like I am), I'd say it's still worth it. The translation that I'd read (I don't know if it was this one) was still quite good and readable, and if you consider yourself into or interested in romance, or you're a hopeless romantic, you surely won't be disappointed by Propertius' dramatic declarations of love, because they come by the shovel-full.

At any rate, I give it a 4/5 because a 3/5 seems a bit harsh, I'd rather give it a 3.5/5. I'm sure the poetry in Latin deserves more praise than that, but I've only English to work with and the contents of the poetry rather than the style.

Ultimately, an enjoyable read of moderate length that drags on a little at the end but is short enough it won't kill you.

[Anna · Rating 4 out of 5]

re-read for *uni* for lt2002 to get a full grasp on propertius' corpus (i'm only translating three and then studying three in translation, and they're not exactly representative of propertius as a whole)
when i first read a bit of him in sixth form (16-17), i didn't like him much, but i really like him now. guy lee's translation is outstanding, as always (i loved his catullus translations too), and who doesn't love seeing a roman man give into his girlfriend once or twice?
of course, in a latin work, it's slightly dodgy and non-consensual at some points, so there's a fair warning.

[C.S. Malerich · Rating 4 out of 5]

Propertius is ridiculously hard to capture in English, but Katz does a darn good job, and hey, he gives the Latin, too! Some folks like the intensely personal portrait of an emotional young man in love with a high-maintenance woman. Great stuff. I like the anti-Augustan, anti-militarism undertones. If you want to know where the medieval court poets got all that stuff about the lover's abasement to his lady, this is a good place to start. The tradition of the servile lover just never gets old, nor do emphatic statements about living an unconvential life and being happy, dammit!

[Vikram Kumar · Rating 5 out of 5]

These poems are absolutely brilliant. Occasionally the editor makes some rather polemic changes, such as capitalizing certain words that should not be personified. Some sentences are also put in different places. Nevertheless, the true magic is in the poems of Propertius, which take one upon a journey of musings and imagination.

[James Violand · Rating 4 out of 5]

A delightful read, though how much is owed to the translator's talent is a valid question. Still, the world of Ancient Rome becomes current with the same struggles we all deal with in some way. Even though the elegies are profane, they are enjoyable and Propertius's humor and curse of loving a courtesan is entertaining.

[A.J. McMahon · Rating 1 out of 5]

I just could not get anything at all from any of the poems. It might be that everything was entirely lost in translation, or it might be that I lack the cultural mind-set to respond to a communication from Ancient Rome. Tedious from beginning to end, for me at any rate.

[David · Rating 3 out of 5]

Poetic

[Janet Martinez · Rating 5 out of 5]

very nice&concise translation but-still prefer my loeb propertius but-i think only because-it's the one i was originally exposed to when i took latin in high school

[Eadweard · Rating 4 out of 5]

4.5/5