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Echoes of the Fall #2
The Bear and the Serpent
As the south is in turmoil, an old terror emerges in the north
Maniye, child of both Wolf and Tiger clans, has been named Champion of her people. But they're unsure if she's an asset - or a threat. To buy time, she joins Prince Tecuman's warband of outcasts and heads south, to help him gain his crown. She wants to discover her true place in the world, but instead heads into the jaws of a fierce new conflict.
Civil war threatens as Tecuman and his twin sister battle for the throne, for only one can rule. Yet whoever triumphs will carry a heavy burden, as a great doom has been foreseen that will fall across their whole world. And soon Maniye finds herself at the heart of a political storm. Danger is also shadowing her old home, where Lord Thunder and his bear clan are attempting to unite the northern tribes. But only extreme peril will end age-old rivalries. An adversary from the most ancient of times is preparing to strike, putting their lands and their very souls in danger. And neither north nor south will be spared the terror to come.
The Bear and the Serpent is the second book in Adrian Tchaikovsky's epic fantasy series, ''Echoes of the Fall'', following The Tiger and the Wolf.
Maniye, child of both Wolf and Tiger clans, has been named Champion of her people. But they're unsure if she's an asset - or a threat. To buy time, she joins Prince Tecuman's warband of outcasts and heads south, to help him gain his crown. She wants to discover her true place in the world, but instead heads into the jaws of a fierce new conflict.
Civil war threatens as Tecuman and his twin sister battle for the throne, for only one can rule. Yet whoever triumphs will carry a heavy burden, as a great doom has been foreseen that will fall across their whole world. And soon Maniye finds herself at the heart of a political storm. Danger is also shadowing her old home, where Lord Thunder and his bear clan are attempting to unite the northern tribes. But only extreme peril will end age-old rivalries. An adversary from the most ancient of times is preparing to strike, putting their lands and their very souls in danger. And neither north nor south will be spared the terror to come.
The Bear and the Serpent is the second book in Adrian Tchaikovsky's epic fantasy series, ''Echoes of the Fall'', following The Tiger and the Wolf.
446 pages, Paperback
First published February 9, 2017
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2747 people want to read
About the author
Adrian Tchaikovsky
191 books17.4k followersADRIAN TCHAIKOVSKY was born in Lincolnshire and studied zoology and psychology at Reading, before practising law in Leeds. He is a keen live role-player and occasional amateur actor and is trained in stage-fighting. His literary influences include Gene Wolfe, Mervyn Peake, China Miéville, Mary Gently, Steven Erikson, Naomi Novak, Scott Lynch and Alan Campbell.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 190 reviews
December 14, 2017
4.5 stars for The Bear and the Serpent, an epic shapeshifter fantasy set in a Bronze Age type of era, and the sequel to 2016's The Tiger and the Wolf. Final review, first posted on Fantasy Literature:
The Bear and the Serpent follows the continuing adventures of a young woman named Maniye, who has an unusual dual heritage that allows her to instantly shapeshift into Wolf (her father’s people) and Tiger (her mother’s). Now Maniye has been gifted a third form by the gods, called a Champion: a massive wolf/tiger/bear hybrid creature that’s a serious threat in battle. Maniye has gathered a warband of Wolves around her, those who didn’t fit well in the rigid clan structure of their Wolf tribe. She and her Wolf group, along with a few other stray shapeshifters, are following Asmander of the River Lord (crocodile) people as he takes them south to help his side in a conflict for the crown of the River Lords. A twin brother and sister, childhood friends of Asmander, both want to rule the River Lords as their “Kasra,” and both have their supporters, including members of the Serpent priesthood. Conspiracies are everywhere they turn, and Maniye and her band of misfit Wolves soon find themselves the reluctant guardians of one of the two claimants to the throne, who is more of a weak boy than a confident potential ruler.
But a worse danger threatens: an ancient danger has arrived from across the sea, the “soulless” Plague People who speak no recognizable language and use weapons that are unrecognizable to the people of this land. The Plague People’s very presence drives the shapeshifters to madness: loss of their shapeshifting abilities and their power of reason. The scope of the ECHOES OF THE FALL series broadens in The Bear and the Serpent, as Maniye’s point of view alternates with that of Lord Thunder, a Bear shapeshifter who Maniye met in the first book. Lord Thunder finds himself charged by his mother, the leader of the Bear clan, with pulling all of the warring factions and peoples in the north together to combat this new threat. It’s not a role he’s thrilled about trying to take on, but there’s no gainsaying Mama Bear.
Adrian Tchaikovsky is a talented author who excels at world-building. The southern lands, where Maniye travels with Asmander and her Wolf band, has a distinctly different culture from the north, the setting of the first book. The south is comparable to Central America and its native cultures, while the north echoes Alaskan or Canadian native cultures. While the south has a more highly developed and sophisticated civilization, both are equally brutal in their different ways. The south is just more sneaky about it.
The plot is a bit of a slow burn, especially in the first third. At first I set The Bear and the Serpent aside several times to go read other books that weren’t quite so demanding of my time (and attention). But once I got into it, it was truly fascinating ― even better than the first book, The Tiger and the Wolf. The plot is more complex, with several enjoyable twists and turns that caught me by surprise. There are several interesting new characters, and characters familiar from the first book continue develop new depths. A star-crossed love interest for Lord Thunder causes him to rethink assumptions, and Tchaikovsky sensitively addresses the restricted role of women in her clan and the lack of choices she has had in her life. Several chapters focus on Venat, a (Komodo) Dragon shapeshifter who finds that his travels and experiences have made him dissatisfied with the simpler life of fighting, looting, and lording it over other Dragons that once seemed like the pinnacle of desirability to him.
The Bear and the Serpent is a fairly challenging read that requires the reader’s attention. There are a whole host of characters for the reader to keep track of; these books would have benefitted from a glossary to help remind the reader of particular characters and their shapeshifting animal. The viewpoint also frequently shifts between different characters. The plot primarily follows Maniye and Lord Thunder, but Tchaikovsky occasionally jumps into the heads of any number of other characters.
There are several hints that the Plague People may be of the moth or wasp people from Tchaikovsky’s SHADOWS OF THE APT series, so fans of that series may want to check this one out. It seems clear that they’re a more technologically advanced civilization than the shapeshifters on this continent, but their perceived soullessness ― which might be just because they aren’t shapeshifters ― and why they cause near-instantaneous loss of power for shapeshifting people, are questions left to be answered in the upcoming third book, The Hyena and the Hawk, due to be published in February 2018. This series has won my heart and interest, and I’m looking forward to the next installment in this ECHOES OF THE FALL series.
I received a free copy of this book for review from the publisher. Many thanks!
The Bear and the Serpent follows the continuing adventures of a young woman named Maniye, who has an unusual dual heritage that allows her to instantly shapeshift into Wolf (her father’s people) and Tiger (her mother’s). Now Maniye has been gifted a third form by the gods, called a Champion: a massive wolf/tiger/bear hybrid creature that’s a serious threat in battle. Maniye has gathered a warband of Wolves around her, those who didn’t fit well in the rigid clan structure of their Wolf tribe. She and her Wolf group, along with a few other stray shapeshifters, are following Asmander of the River Lord (crocodile) people as he takes them south to help his side in a conflict for the crown of the River Lords. A twin brother and sister, childhood friends of Asmander, both want to rule the River Lords as their “Kasra,” and both have their supporters, including members of the Serpent priesthood. Conspiracies are everywhere they turn, and Maniye and her band of misfit Wolves soon find themselves the reluctant guardians of one of the two claimants to the throne, who is more of a weak boy than a confident potential ruler.
But a worse danger threatens: an ancient danger has arrived from across the sea, the “soulless” Plague People who speak no recognizable language and use weapons that are unrecognizable to the people of this land. The Plague People’s very presence drives the shapeshifters to madness: loss of their shapeshifting abilities and their power of reason. The scope of the ECHOES OF THE FALL series broadens in The Bear and the Serpent, as Maniye’s point of view alternates with that of Lord Thunder, a Bear shapeshifter who Maniye met in the first book. Lord Thunder finds himself charged by his mother, the leader of the Bear clan, with pulling all of the warring factions and peoples in the north together to combat this new threat. It’s not a role he’s thrilled about trying to take on, but there’s no gainsaying Mama Bear.
Adrian Tchaikovsky is a talented author who excels at world-building. The southern lands, where Maniye travels with Asmander and her Wolf band, has a distinctly different culture from the north, the setting of the first book. The south is comparable to Central America and its native cultures, while the north echoes Alaskan or Canadian native cultures. While the south has a more highly developed and sophisticated civilization, both are equally brutal in their different ways. The south is just more sneaky about it.
The plot is a bit of a slow burn, especially in the first third. At first I set The Bear and the Serpent aside several times to go read other books that weren’t quite so demanding of my time (and attention). But once I got into it, it was truly fascinating ― even better than the first book, The Tiger and the Wolf. The plot is more complex, with several enjoyable twists and turns that caught me by surprise. There are several interesting new characters, and characters familiar from the first book continue develop new depths. A star-crossed love interest for Lord Thunder causes him to rethink assumptions, and Tchaikovsky sensitively addresses the restricted role of women in her clan and the lack of choices she has had in her life. Several chapters focus on Venat, a (Komodo) Dragon shapeshifter who finds that his travels and experiences have made him dissatisfied with the simpler life of fighting, looting, and lording it over other Dragons that once seemed like the pinnacle of desirability to him.
The Bear and the Serpent is a fairly challenging read that requires the reader’s attention. There are a whole host of characters for the reader to keep track of; these books would have benefitted from a glossary to help remind the reader of particular characters and their shapeshifting animal. The viewpoint also frequently shifts between different characters. The plot primarily follows Maniye and Lord Thunder, but Tchaikovsky occasionally jumps into the heads of any number of other characters.
There are several hints that the Plague People may be of the moth or wasp people from Tchaikovsky’s SHADOWS OF THE APT series, so fans of that series may want to check this one out. It seems clear that they’re a more technologically advanced civilization than the shapeshifters on this continent, but their perceived soullessness ― which might be just because they aren’t shapeshifters ― and why they cause near-instantaneous loss of power for shapeshifting people, are questions left to be answered in the upcoming third book, The Hyena and the Hawk, due to be published in February 2018. This series has won my heart and interest, and I’m looking forward to the next installment in this ECHOES OF THE FALL series.
I received a free copy of this book for review from the publisher. Many thanks!
August 26, 2021
“We are the deaths of all your careful tomorrows.”
I have enjoyed this book probably more than I should. Why? Because as exciting and well written as it is, what transpires in the pages of this instalment is essentially rendered meaningless by the ending. That means: a perfect book no 2.
The worst what a reader can expect is that s/he will continue a tale of Maniye, an errant child of the Wolf and a rebellious daughter of the Tiger and Asmander, an underachieving son of an ambitious father, and their quest to control their own destinies. This is not happening. While all the books in the Echoes of the Fall trilogy are set in the same universe of bronze era shapeshifting tribes and sport roughly the same set of protagonists, the titles hint very clearly which of the totems and hence which of the characters will take the lead.
As expected, Maniye and her band of the mad, the broken, and the unfitting go south to a different land, different customs, values and different gods (although I still do not get how is it that dog is too small to ride a human soul and a toad is not) and promptly land in the middle of a power struggle. But can there be firm battle lines drawn through the estuaries, bogs and mashes? As Maniye navigates the waters of the new environments and balances between being partly a guest and partly a mercenary, she needs to learn a whole set of new lessons. Similarly, Asmander, either will learn how to have as many faces as souls or face death as a choice.
Nevertheless, these two are far from being the main voices in The Bear and the Serpent. I was surprised by how little Maniye was there; when she appeared at one point, I was literally muttering to myself “and where did you come from?!” as she basically vanished for several chapters. Nevertheless, there are reasons for this.
Firstly, I am glad of the many different POVs in this instalment. They really added a flavour to this story. We see some new faces, like the half-mad Crow Feeds on Rags and just slightly mad Coyote girl Sathewe, but also old acquaintances: Venat (all the world’s chaos and anarchy in one name) who grow exponentially and stops being just a menace with foul breath, Shyri the Hyena, and even Kalameshli Takes Iron. We see more of the Serpent that thrives on secrets and wisdom. But it is undoubtedly Loud Thunder who steals the show. This is the second reason for multivocality. The story itself is far from linear and also becomes distinctly multifocal. Equally important (if not even more salient) events take place in the North, among the Seals and other tribes we have already met in the previous book. So much happens there and of such momentous consequences, that the whole Southern brouhaha feels like an interlude rather than a step in the story (you see the problem here, don’t you?).
The developments in the North are simply magnificent in how terrifying they are. Mr Tchaikovsky spins such horror, such abomination, that when reading I felt hollow inside. Again, his creativity is shining. This time he had me googling prehistoric badgers (who apparently had dinosaurs for breakfast) and all these amazing elements, coupled with excellent writing meant that I did not mind the fact that the book has been a tad too long, and a little bit pointless. Even some YA features that seem to be more pronounced (that finale to the Southern katzenjammer!) were not that jarring.
All in all, a pleasant intermezzo in the story proper with only marginal developments with regards to the main tale. I appreciated the fact that the story becomes less Maniye-centred and more an epic tale of civilisational survival. While the personal bonds forged in the previous book are still important, now bigger things are at stake. The Serpent and the Bear was less intimate but not less intense.
PS Of course, there must have been spiders!
Also in the series:
1. The Tiger and the Wolf ★★★★☆
3. The Hyena and the Hawk ★★★★☆
I have enjoyed this book probably more than I should. Why? Because as exciting and well written as it is, what transpires in the pages of this instalment is essentially rendered meaningless by the ending. That means: a perfect book no 2.
The worst what a reader can expect is that s/he will continue a tale of Maniye, an errant child of the Wolf and a rebellious daughter of the Tiger and Asmander, an underachieving son of an ambitious father, and their quest to control their own destinies. This is not happening. While all the books in the Echoes of the Fall trilogy are set in the same universe of bronze era shapeshifting tribes and sport roughly the same set of protagonists, the titles hint very clearly which of the totems and hence which of the characters will take the lead.
As expected, Maniye and her band of the mad, the broken, and the unfitting go south to a different land, different customs, values and different gods (although I still do not get how is it that dog is too small to ride a human soul and a toad is not) and promptly land in the middle of a power struggle. But can there be firm battle lines drawn through the estuaries, bogs and mashes? As Maniye navigates the waters of the new environments and balances between being partly a guest and partly a mercenary, she needs to learn a whole set of new lessons. Similarly, Asmander, either will learn how to have as many faces as souls or face death as a choice.
Nevertheless, these two are far from being the main voices in The Bear and the Serpent. I was surprised by how little Maniye was there; when she appeared at one point, I was literally muttering to myself “and where did you come from?!” as she basically vanished for several chapters. Nevertheless, there are reasons for this.
Firstly, I am glad of the many different POVs in this instalment. They really added a flavour to this story. We see some new faces, like the half-mad Crow Feeds on Rags and just slightly mad Coyote girl Sathewe, but also old acquaintances: Venat (all the world’s chaos and anarchy in one name) who grow exponentially and stops being just a menace with foul breath, Shyri the Hyena, and even Kalameshli Takes Iron. We see more of the Serpent that thrives on secrets and wisdom. But it is undoubtedly Loud Thunder who steals the show. This is the second reason for multivocality. The story itself is far from linear and also becomes distinctly multifocal. Equally important (if not even more salient) events take place in the North, among the Seals and other tribes we have already met in the previous book. So much happens there and of such momentous consequences, that the whole Southern brouhaha feels like an interlude rather than a step in the story (you see the problem here, don’t you?).
The developments in the North are simply magnificent in how terrifying they are. Mr Tchaikovsky spins such horror, such abomination, that when reading I felt hollow inside. Again, his creativity is shining. This time he had me googling prehistoric badgers (who apparently had dinosaurs for breakfast) and all these amazing elements, coupled with excellent writing meant that I did not mind the fact that the book has been a tad too long, and a little bit pointless. Even some YA features that seem to be more pronounced (that finale to the Southern katzenjammer!) were not that jarring.
All in all, a pleasant intermezzo in the story proper with only marginal developments with regards to the main tale. I appreciated the fact that the story becomes less Maniye-centred and more an epic tale of civilisational survival. While the personal bonds forged in the previous book are still important, now bigger things are at stake. The Serpent and the Bear was less intimate but not less intense.
PS Of course, there must have been spiders!
Also in the series:
1. The Tiger and the Wolf ★★★★☆
3. The Hyena and the Hawk ★★★★☆
August 24, 2017
A safe bet for readers who enjoyed the first book in the series, "The Bear and the Serpent" continues the saga of Maniye Many Tracks – the girl who was born half-Wolf, half-Tiger. After escaping the numerous assassins and gaining the sort of superpowers than any decent epic fantasy heroine truly needs (her Champion form), Maniye leaves her northern, tribal Crown of the World and heads to the distant, warm climate of the Sun River empire. The girl, despite her tender age, gains a following and a job as bodyguard and mercenary captain for Asmander – her former enemy, now potential boyfriend material and a Champion in his own right.
The plot is satisfyingly complex, combining a civil war in the Sun River between twin heirs to the throne with ominous developments back in the frozen north, where Maniye's friend (the bear from the title) is investigating a new plague brought by invaders from over the ocean, a plague that leaves the world's humans trapped in their animal form and bereft of their higher cognitive functions. In the south there is also a subplot with religious leaders (the serpents from the title) too occupied supporting the twin pretenders to the throne to pay attention to ancient enemies making a comeback from the mists of history.
I was already a fan of Adrian Tchaikovsky, and this latest offering did little to curb my enthusiasm. I continue to be surprised at his relative small number of followers and quality reviews, since in my opinion he is better than Brandon Sanderson with whom he shares some similarities in style: young heroes, carefully developed magic systems geared for combat, very engaging secondary characters, fast pacing and mostly PG sort of dialogue and descriptions (as opposed to the more gritty, bloody and explicit fashion that seems to dominate the genre nowadays).
"Echoes of the Fall" does not instill in me though the same sort of enthusiasm I had for "Shadows of the Apt" or for "Children of Time". The were-magic is excellent, the characters likable and the world-building intriguing, well fleshed out. Yet the actual plot is not all that original and seems more like the needed framework for as many combat scenes between different Champions and different were-animals. I think I remember reading somewhere that the inception of the series was a role-playing game between the author and his friends, and the actual result reminds me a lot of the games I used to play myself compulsively on my PC a few years back. It's also telling that I actually have not a single bookmark or quote from the text to put here in support of my commentary. But then again, this may be due to the speed that I went through with the lecture : my ebook reader tells some two hours and change, which is weird, because a lot of things have happened in this second episode. A true page turner that kept me glued to the e-screen in the wee small hours of the morning! The good news is that mr. Tchaikovsky is very reliable and fast when it comes to the next book in his series. I will be waiting patiently for it.
January 7, 2022
This second book of the series didn't exactly work for me.
I didn't connect with any of the characters in a way that I need to get sucked into an epic Fantasy story. (and I fear I'm still harbouring a grudge over the killing of my fav character in book 1 - yes, I'm that shallow)
There are two plotlines here that both would be interesting on their own, but thrown together like this they felt disconnected. Both are the typical setup of a middle book towards the finale.
In one storyline we follow heavy court intrigues of loyalty and treason over a line of succession, the other sees an unknown threat coming to the world. In my opinion both would have done well as their own books with more time to develop (and get to know the respective characters).
Lets see what the finale brings.
I didn't connect with any of the characters in a way that I need to get sucked into an epic Fantasy story. (and I fear I'm still harbouring a grudge over the killing of my fav character in book 1 - yes, I'm that shallow)
There are two plotlines here that both would be interesting on their own, but thrown together like this they felt disconnected. Both are the typical setup of a middle book towards the finale.
In one storyline we follow heavy court intrigues of loyalty and treason over a line of succession, the other sees an unknown threat coming to the world. In my opinion both would have done well as their own books with more time to develop (and get to know the respective characters).
Lets see what the finale brings.
May 6, 2022
The author's writing style is as always awesome, but there are too many POVs with different story lines and that requires a concentration and patience I don't have right now. This richness of POVs again reminded me of the A Game of Thrones series.
I'll continue this trilogy eventually, when I have the necessary focus.
I'll continue this trilogy eventually, when I have the necessary focus.
March 26, 2021
Enjoyable second installment of the trilogy. Use caution if you're going to listen to the audio version. The story jumps around from various POVs, with no warning when you're heading into another POV. Several times, I was listening to one scenario, and suddenly you're elsewhere with the plight of another character. Keeping all the different names and what they shapeshifted into, was a chore at times. Could just be my own problem, as I try to multitask when listening, but this one is probably easier to comprehend all the info from the written edition.
It's a continuation from the first story, with something evil coming to change all their lives. So, it's a matter of uniting to fight this impending doom, or be swallowed up by it. The problem though is with too many chiefs, and none of them want to work together.
There's plenty of political intrigue, with cut-throat tactics (which is quite literal in the shapeshifter world), and even some love interests that are impossible to fulfill. Perfect second installment that leaves you with plenty of questions hopefully answered in the third.
It's a continuation from the first story, with something evil coming to change all their lives. So, it's a matter of uniting to fight this impending doom, or be swallowed up by it. The problem though is with too many chiefs, and none of them want to work together.
There's plenty of political intrigue, with cut-throat tactics (which is quite literal in the shapeshifter world), and even some love interests that are impossible to fulfill. Perfect second installment that leaves you with plenty of questions hopefully answered in the third.
May 17, 2022
The sophomore installment in the Echoes trilogy certainly felt like it, for better or worse. Tchaikovsky does manage to bring some of the story arcs here to a conclusion, but this really felt like a placeholder awaiting the finale. Further, this had the strange feeling of being too busy and while also underdeveloped. No doubt Tchaikovsky can tell a story, but this was definitely a bit of a let down from the first in the trilogy.
Maniye, the 'champion of the North', the same half wolf/tiger child, starts here heading to the Empire of the Sun with a rather motley crew of wolves, outcasts all, along with a crow and coyote to round out the pack. By agreeing to head south to become guards for Tecuman as he makes his bid for the throne, they must sever all ties to the North; hence the strange crew of young and old wolves who head the call. So, one story arc concerns Maniye and her adventures in the South as it looks like civil war is on the horizon. The second story arc concerns our old friend Loud Thunder, the huge bear that befriended Maniye. Thunder's mother (really, the mother to all the bear) has deemed him warmaster of the North and he must try to convince the various hostile tribes/clans there to follow his banner.
The 'Southern arc' is rife with politics and intrigue, as the two twins battle for the throne with Maniye along for the ride. This was interesting as we learned more about the Snake (hence the title, Snake in the South, Bear in the North), but perhaps too much going on all at once. This part could have been developed into an entire installment in the series, but so it goes. Likewise in the North. Loud Thunder manages to assemble a fairly massive host of tribes/clans as 'guests', but perhaps the divisions are too deep to overcome. What they need is a common enemy and yes, they find one at last...
From the start of this trilogy, Tchaikovsky has been foreshadowing a common 'doom', or 'terrible things' on the horizon. All the priests of various tribes/clans also sense something bad, and there are hints of a 'plague people', or sometimes 'hollow men' who drove the shapeshifters from their old lands into this one long ago. It seems they are coming once again. The problem with The Bear and the Serpent is that it just tries to do too much. Yes, we have more hints about the 'plague people' and obviously there will be a showdown in the next/final installment. The political situation in the South did really add much to the overall story arc, however, and took up half the volume. This felt like really two books in one, unhappily coexisting-- each could have been a volume in its own right. Oh well, off to the conclusion! 3 busy stars!!
Maniye, the 'champion of the North', the same half wolf/tiger child, starts here heading to the Empire of the Sun with a rather motley crew of wolves, outcasts all, along with a crow and coyote to round out the pack. By agreeing to head south to become guards for Tecuman as he makes his bid for the throne, they must sever all ties to the North; hence the strange crew of young and old wolves who head the call. So, one story arc concerns Maniye and her adventures in the South as it looks like civil war is on the horizon. The second story arc concerns our old friend Loud Thunder, the huge bear that befriended Maniye. Thunder's mother (really, the mother to all the bear) has deemed him warmaster of the North and he must try to convince the various hostile tribes/clans there to follow his banner.
The 'Southern arc' is rife with politics and intrigue, as the two twins battle for the throne with Maniye along for the ride. This was interesting as we learned more about the Snake (hence the title, Snake in the South, Bear in the North), but perhaps too much going on all at once. This part could have been developed into an entire installment in the series, but so it goes. Likewise in the North. Loud Thunder manages to assemble a fairly massive host of tribes/clans as 'guests', but perhaps the divisions are too deep to overcome. What they need is a common enemy and yes, they find one at last...
From the start of this trilogy, Tchaikovsky has been foreshadowing a common 'doom', or 'terrible things' on the horizon. All the priests of various tribes/clans also sense something bad, and there are hints of a 'plague people', or sometimes 'hollow men' who drove the shapeshifters from their old lands into this one long ago. It seems they are coming once again. The problem with The Bear and the Serpent is that it just tries to do too much. Yes, we have more hints about the 'plague people' and obviously there will be a showdown in the next/final installment. The political situation in the South did really add much to the overall story arc, however, and took up half the volume. This felt like really two books in one, unhappily coexisting-- each could have been a volume in its own right. Oh well, off to the conclusion! 3 busy stars!!
May 2, 2020
I’m left with conflicting thoughts after finishing it.
While reading it, I was so sure I’d give it 4 stars as I gave The Tiger and the Wolf. But nearing the end, two chapters didn’t sit well with me—they still don’t. The pacing was good and I got immersed in the story. There’s just something to Tchaikovsky’s writing style that compels me to turn pages and keep on reading. The story is stretched in many directions with Maniye and her warband heading south to help Asmander and his boy-Kasra, and with Loud Thunder in the north, ralliying allies to fight the inescapable doom that was descending on their lands. The story is well written and despite there being many POVs, those scenes are nicely installed in the bigger picture.
“Everyone was everyone else’s monster.”
However, I couldn't help but miss Maniye. The first book was essentially her story with Asmander adding some spice from the south. In the second book, she was basically put aside in favour of the plot. She did, however, become more confident and a true leader.
Asmander, on the other hand, I didn’t particularly like. In The Tiger and the Wolf I adored the amusing trio of Asmander, Venat and Shyri, which didn't happen here because this trio apparently retired until further notice. And even though I got super gay vibes from Asmander and Venat, the author decided to turn a blind eye on it and encourage a heterosexual relationship instead. Even if he gifted us with passages like this:
“When you gave me back my name, you kept something of me. Some part of me: my skin didn’t fit properly, when it was gone. I went to my people and made myself the big man amongst them, like I’d always wanted. But it wasn’t enough. I came back to the River with my people because, with those pieces of me gone, I couldn’t be happy just being what I had been.”
I was really irritated because both Asmander and Loud Thunder seemed quite different and vexing than in the first book. Asmander was still rigid in his sense of justice but here it was even more pronounced. He was easily fooled and seemed more like a puppet than a Champion. Not to mention that the accord that was struck between him and his father was so out of the blue that I couldn't grasp why Asmander agreed to it--and so cheerfully at that--where in all honestly it didn't solve anything. It just put me in a very bad mood. Loud Thunder, on the other hand, was so preoccupied with Kailovela, who didn’t want his attention at all by the way, that despite being the war leader, he was having a hard time thinking about anything else.
The only character who seemed to have grown is Kalameshli Takes Iron, transforming from a reschangedentful northerner to a perceptive comrade. Even Hesprec's energetic disposition was exchanged for a pretty dull one.
Also, the Kasra thing took an indescribable amount of pages just for a ruler to be chosen. Not to mention that while Maniye was in the south ferrying and protecting wimpy kasra’s, Loud Thunder was alone leading people into war. And I can’t understand that logic. Why was choosing between the twins so hard? Why did it have to take a whole book while the actual war was happening elsewhere? Even Maniye poised this same question in the story.
“I came here to win a war, but there wasn’t one.”
While reading it, I was so sure I’d give it 4 stars as I gave The Tiger and the Wolf. But nearing the end, two chapters didn’t sit well with me—they still don’t. The pacing was good and I got immersed in the story. There’s just something to Tchaikovsky’s writing style that compels me to turn pages and keep on reading. The story is stretched in many directions with Maniye and her warband heading south to help Asmander and his boy-Kasra, and with Loud Thunder in the north, ralliying allies to fight the inescapable doom that was descending on their lands. The story is well written and despite there being many POVs, those scenes are nicely installed in the bigger picture.
“Everyone was everyone else’s monster.”
However, I couldn't help but miss Maniye. The first book was essentially her story with Asmander adding some spice from the south. In the second book, she was basically put aside in favour of the plot. She did, however, become more confident and a true leader.
Asmander, on the other hand, I didn’t particularly like. In The Tiger and the Wolf I adored the amusing trio of Asmander, Venat and Shyri, which didn't happen here because this trio apparently retired until further notice. And even though I got super gay vibes from Asmander and Venat, the author decided to turn a blind eye on it and encourage a heterosexual relationship instead. Even if he gifted us with passages like this:
“When you gave me back my name, you kept something of me. Some part of me: my skin didn’t fit properly, when it was gone. I went to my people and made myself the big man amongst them, like I’d always wanted. But it wasn’t enough. I came back to the River with my people because, with those pieces of me gone, I couldn’t be happy just being what I had been.”
I was really irritated because both Asmander and Loud Thunder seemed quite different and vexing than in the first book. Asmander was still rigid in his sense of justice but here it was even more pronounced. He was easily fooled and seemed more like a puppet than a Champion. Not to mention that the accord that was struck between him and his father was so out of the blue that I couldn't grasp why Asmander agreed to it--and so cheerfully at that--where in all honestly it didn't solve anything. It just put me in a very bad mood. Loud Thunder, on the other hand, was so preoccupied with Kailovela, who didn’t want his attention at all by the way, that despite being the war leader, he was having a hard time thinking about anything else.
The only character who seemed to have grown is Kalameshli Takes Iron, transforming from a reschangedentful northerner to a perceptive comrade. Even Hesprec's energetic disposition was exchanged for a pretty dull one.
Also, the Kasra thing took an indescribable amount of pages just for a ruler to be chosen. Not to mention that while Maniye was in the south ferrying and protecting wimpy kasra’s, Loud Thunder was alone leading people into war. And I can’t understand that logic. Why was choosing between the twins so hard? Why did it have to take a whole book while the actual war was happening elsewhere? Even Maniye poised this same question in the story.
“I came here to win a war, but there wasn’t one.”
January 15, 2021
We visit societies that never made sense with characters who upon returning to said societies realise how absurd the societies are. Stupidly constructed societies that I'm meant to believe existed gloriously for centuries. I couldn't believe it. Walking a well trodden path of generic shenanigans with the most boringly overused relationship dynamics you'll find in a fantasy novel.
There were too many pointless fights and skirmishes that removed both tension and desire to care. If there was a chapter that didn't have a fight I don't remember it.
Hard to believe Tchaikovsky wrote this drivel.
There were too many pointless fights and skirmishes that removed both tension and desire to care. If there was a chapter that didn't have a fight I don't remember it.
Hard to believe Tchaikovsky wrote this drivel.
April 7, 2017
The Bear and the Serpent Adrijana Čajkovskog je za klasu lošiji od prvog dela u ovom serijalu. Od jedne angažovane, feminističke i prilično relevantne priče krećemo se ka gejmotronskom senzibilitetu i spoju s autorovim prethodnim fantazijskim serijalom, Shadows of Apt. I dalje se vidi da je Čajkovski silno napredovao u odnosu na svoje prvo, desetotomno čedo, ali ipak sam više očekivao od ovog romana i mislim da je autor prerano spojio svoja dva serijala, iako se taj pravac mogao naslutiti već u prethodnoj knjizi. 4/5
November 24, 2025
8/10
Mejor que el primero, mucho más entretenido y variado. Lástima que tiene un cierto tono inocente, le falta un poco de mala leche.
https://dreamsofelvex.blogspot.com/20...
Mejor que el primero, mucho más entretenido y variado. Lástima que tiene un cierto tono inocente, le falta un poco de mala leche.
https://dreamsofelvex.blogspot.com/20...
October 15, 2019
The Bear and the Serpent was not the follow up I'd been expecting to Tiger and the Wolf. I was ecstatic by the Tiger and the Wolf's end, I gave it 5 stars, something I rarely ever do, especially for a newly discovered (by me) writer. Although Tchaikovsky has quite the novel plot here, and his hybrid animal/people characters are the elevation shape shifters have been needing for quite some time, The Bear and the Serpent is missing quite the integral portion needed to bind me as its predecessor did, and having reflected on it for quite some time I'm still having a hard time pinning down why this just isn't quite working.
I'm going to attempt to figure it out. tBatS picks up right where we left off, with Maniye Many Tracks, hot off her first transformation as Champion, deciding its better she leave the Crown of the World for more temperate climes; that, and to get away from the tribe that would mold her into their own as opposed to let her come fully into herself. She joins Asmander and Hesprec, helping Asmander accomplish his goal of returning home with the fabled Iron Wolves to help solve the succession war brewing between the twins who should not be - Tecuman and Tecumet. It is here where the Tchaikovsky decides to broaden and branch out his world. Gone are the cold and merciless winters, where climate is as cruel as family, instead we enter the world of politics, where nothing is as it seems and double talk is an everyday occurrence.
It's nice to have a change of scenery and to visit Asmander's homeland, and truthfully the plot as described is an interesting one, but I think the biggest problem I have here is execution. There have always been shifting POVs; Asmander existed in book one as a main character, but it was always Maniye's tale. It is her coming of age story and by book's end, suggests that she, in her new Champion form, will have a larger role to play in the overarching plot (we'll get to this later). Here in Asmander's estuary however, she is far from her element and has no essential part to play in the conflict. She is relegated to the role of 'muscle', whereby she protects Tecuman from those who'd rather see him dead, and generally causes disruption in the South. Even she doesn't really know what's she's doing, having no real exposure to politics, and although she does feature more or less prominently, her characterization has careened out the window. Sure we get a chance to see her grow into her own as she's responsible for her ragamuffin war band, but her purpose is essentially nil and it is jarring to watch my favorite character, who headlined book one, fall by the wayside to share space with other less fleshed out, characters.
Instead what we are left with is Asmander and his complicated relationship caught in the middle of Tecuman and Tecumet. Although he's sent by his father to rally troupes in support of Tecuman, the son, he cannot forget his childhood growing up with both of them and he is caught in a constant push and pull between the two. Asmander is a hard to describe character. Although I like him, he is not particularly interesting. He has a rigid sense of justice and refuses to play politics. He is straight forward and unyielding, and because of this he doesn't really adapt, which makes him hard to enjoy when he's the more central character (in this plotline). A character like him needs someone to push against him; to challenge and make him bend. He was well balanced before in tTatW by Shyri and Venat who needled him and drove him to anger, and although both are present and accounted for this time around, the relationship that once had such life is flat and almost shunted aside by too many plotlines. Instead we are left with unbending Asmander, the man with a child's name, whose narrative reads in the same plodding, brooding manner of his characterization making for a dreary, slow read.
I want to get back to these plot lines because they are just as culpable as the characters are for this overall uninspiring read. Don't get me wrong, I like all the plot lines, it's just that they almost seem at odds with one another as they battle for supremacy. The estuary battle is the forefront of this tale, but back in the Crown of the World we have left Loud Thunder to deal with problem one that has been brewing since the start of it all, and is the reason Hesprec set out to the North in the first place, the Plague People. So far we have been gathering rumor and clan secrets from those who remember what time was like before the true people were driven from their world to make a new home across the sea. Loud Thunder, driven by his prophetic mother, gathers all the tribes together in hopes of uniting people that have been at war with each other since they first arrived in their new home. He is left virtually alone to hold together the long term plot and because of this, I think out of all the chapters, Loud Thunder's are the most problematic for me.
Although he holds together the overarching storyline, it moves at the pace of, well a bear hibernating. He calls the tribes to the home of the Bear, he deals with feuds as they arise, and eventually uses his fighting prowess to subdue the biggest troublemaker and bring everyone to an uneasy truce. The problem is that this takes the entirety of the book. So although things are accomplished, it is in small segments squeezed through cracks of daily minute activities such as visiting cook fires and ogling Kailovela, the hawk woman who yearns to be free of any and all men who would have her, including Loud Thunder.
Loud Thunder, as a character, is also very similar to Asmander. Like the Bear he Steps to, he is lumbering and slow. He is patient. He is boring. Bor-ing. There is entirely too much inner monologue whereby he wants to visit Kailovela, visits her, bumbles through veiled feelings about how he is drawn to her, a woman he's barely met and who hardly says a word, and then attempts to slow-ly bring order to the chaos around him. To have the two characters, both of which are more interesting when surrounded by people who a.) talk, and b.) have personalities, lead the story, leaves for a very monotone monologue of 'man thoughts' and 'feelings' which these inept creatures have a hard time putting into motion.
I think I'm finally starting to figure out what it bothering me. There are a lot of 'things' metaphorically going on, but nothing is actually happening. It seems to be all about the journey and less about the end. So we are left with a lot of prose inserting even more new POVs whereby an Owl man searches for the last remaining missing Society that helped us originally stop the Plague People, and Venat, having travelled in the company of Asmander, yearning for a life with meaning as opposed to senseless killing. Asmander is sad because his friends are at war, and Maniye is running around the forest with a limp noodle for a Kasra. The Bear and the Serpent needs less 'day by day' and more 'event to event' movement. The Tiger and the Wolf is over 600 pages and I read it in half the time it took me to dig through these 400.
Although the majority of this book is a plodding slog through wet mud, there are a few glimmers of sunlight now and then. Hesprec continues to be a fascinating character made even more so by the shedding of her skin. She seems to be the only one truly aware of all that is going on and actually making moves to try and set things in motion. Add to her sections Maniye's true father Kalameshli, the only character that appears to have any character growth at all, and her chapters shine more than anyone else. Kalameshli, the once rigid high priest, is on the outs with the Winter Runners after fathering a child inside the priesthood, and failing to follow his chief's final command. He, having nowhere else to turn, 'chooses' to follow his daughter's war band into parts unknown. Having hit rock bottom he is finally forced to bend and in doing so forms an unlikely relationship with Hesprec despite following different gods. Although not as prominent as the vast majority of other characters, I think I looked forward to their chapters the most. It is only a burgeoning relationship, but it's the only one built from character growth and it makes Kalameshli's character that much more intriguing, especially as he slowly, begrudgingly comes to respect a person who has played such a huge role in his daughter's life. The only thing missing here is the missed opportunity to have more interaction between him and Maniye. Even though they have hit the phase where they tolerate and ignore one another, it would be nice to see them cohabitate a bit more, but maybe Tchaikovsky is saving that for the next book.
I hope by the end of this my problems make sense, because it's no one thing that makes this book unenjoyable. In fact all of the issues separate of one another could be glossed over; for example if the only problem is that Asmander is a sad sack, or that Loud Thunder is a perpetual piner, I could probably plow through because there would be someone else to fill the space and make things more interesting. But with Maniye failing to be pivotal to the plot and the plethora of new, uninteresting POVs and competing plot lines, all together they multiply to create one long drawn out read, where although everything set up in this book is accomplished, it takes such a long time to get there I found myself uninterested in the resolutions. Even to the point where the well described fight scenes failed to make an impact. My only hope for the finale is that having wrapped up the estuary succession problem perhaps all characters can focus on the Plague People and come back together as a unit, where they worked so well before. I want to finish this series, but unfortunately due to this dragged out outing I'll be putting this on the back burner for a little bit to hopefully reset and try again. ***3 slogging stars***
I'm going to attempt to figure it out. tBatS picks up right where we left off, with Maniye Many Tracks, hot off her first transformation as Champion, deciding its better she leave the Crown of the World for more temperate climes; that, and to get away from the tribe that would mold her into their own as opposed to let her come fully into herself. She joins Asmander and Hesprec, helping Asmander accomplish his goal of returning home with the fabled Iron Wolves to help solve the succession war brewing between the twins who should not be - Tecuman and Tecumet. It is here where the Tchaikovsky decides to broaden and branch out his world. Gone are the cold and merciless winters, where climate is as cruel as family, instead we enter the world of politics, where nothing is as it seems and double talk is an everyday occurrence.
It's nice to have a change of scenery and to visit Asmander's homeland, and truthfully the plot as described is an interesting one, but I think the biggest problem I have here is execution. There have always been shifting POVs; Asmander existed in book one as a main character, but it was always Maniye's tale. It is her coming of age story and by book's end, suggests that she, in her new Champion form, will have a larger role to play in the overarching plot (we'll get to this later). Here in Asmander's estuary however, she is far from her element and has no essential part to play in the conflict. She is relegated to the role of 'muscle', whereby she protects Tecuman from those who'd rather see him dead, and generally causes disruption in the South. Even she doesn't really know what's she's doing, having no real exposure to politics, and although she does feature more or less prominently, her characterization has careened out the window. Sure we get a chance to see her grow into her own as she's responsible for her ragamuffin war band, but her purpose is essentially nil and it is jarring to watch my favorite character, who headlined book one, fall by the wayside to share space with other less fleshed out, characters.
Instead what we are left with is Asmander and his complicated relationship caught in the middle of Tecuman and Tecumet. Although he's sent by his father to rally troupes in support of Tecuman, the son, he cannot forget his childhood growing up with both of them and he is caught in a constant push and pull between the two. Asmander is a hard to describe character. Although I like him, he is not particularly interesting. He has a rigid sense of justice and refuses to play politics. He is straight forward and unyielding, and because of this he doesn't really adapt, which makes him hard to enjoy when he's the more central character (in this plotline). A character like him needs someone to push against him; to challenge and make him bend. He was well balanced before in tTatW by Shyri and Venat who needled him and drove him to anger, and although both are present and accounted for this time around, the relationship that once had such life is flat and almost shunted aside by too many plotlines. Instead we are left with unbending Asmander, the man with a child's name, whose narrative reads in the same plodding, brooding manner of his characterization making for a dreary, slow read.
I want to get back to these plot lines because they are just as culpable as the characters are for this overall uninspiring read. Don't get me wrong, I like all the plot lines, it's just that they almost seem at odds with one another as they battle for supremacy. The estuary battle is the forefront of this tale, but back in the Crown of the World we have left Loud Thunder to deal with problem one that has been brewing since the start of it all, and is the reason Hesprec set out to the North in the first place, the Plague People. So far we have been gathering rumor and clan secrets from those who remember what time was like before the true people were driven from their world to make a new home across the sea. Loud Thunder, driven by his prophetic mother, gathers all the tribes together in hopes of uniting people that have been at war with each other since they first arrived in their new home. He is left virtually alone to hold together the long term plot and because of this, I think out of all the chapters, Loud Thunder's are the most problematic for me.
Although he holds together the overarching storyline, it moves at the pace of, well a bear hibernating. He calls the tribes to the home of the Bear, he deals with feuds as they arise, and eventually uses his fighting prowess to subdue the biggest troublemaker and bring everyone to an uneasy truce. The problem is that this takes the entirety of the book. So although things are accomplished, it is in small segments squeezed through cracks of daily minute activities such as visiting cook fires and ogling Kailovela, the hawk woman who yearns to be free of any and all men who would have her, including Loud Thunder.
Loud Thunder, as a character, is also very similar to Asmander. Like the Bear he Steps to, he is lumbering and slow. He is patient. He is boring. Bor-ing. There is entirely too much inner monologue whereby he wants to visit Kailovela, visits her, bumbles through veiled feelings about how he is drawn to her, a woman he's barely met and who hardly says a word, and then attempts to slow-ly bring order to the chaos around him. To have the two characters, both of which are more interesting when surrounded by people who a.) talk, and b.) have personalities, lead the story, leaves for a very monotone monologue of 'man thoughts' and 'feelings' which these inept creatures have a hard time putting into motion.
I think I'm finally starting to figure out what it bothering me. There are a lot of 'things' metaphorically going on, but nothing is actually happening. It seems to be all about the journey and less about the end. So we are left with a lot of prose inserting even more new POVs whereby an Owl man searches for the last remaining missing Society that helped us originally stop the Plague People, and Venat, having travelled in the company of Asmander, yearning for a life with meaning as opposed to senseless killing. Asmander is sad because his friends are at war, and Maniye is running around the forest with a limp noodle for a Kasra. The Bear and the Serpent needs less 'day by day' and more 'event to event' movement. The Tiger and the Wolf is over 600 pages and I read it in half the time it took me to dig through these 400.
Although the majority of this book is a plodding slog through wet mud, there are a few glimmers of sunlight now and then. Hesprec continues to be a fascinating character made even more so by the shedding of her skin. She seems to be the only one truly aware of all that is going on and actually making moves to try and set things in motion. Add to her sections Maniye's true father Kalameshli, the only character that appears to have any character growth at all, and her chapters shine more than anyone else. Kalameshli, the once rigid high priest, is on the outs with the Winter Runners after fathering a child inside the priesthood, and failing to follow his chief's final command. He, having nowhere else to turn, 'chooses' to follow his daughter's war band into parts unknown. Having hit rock bottom he is finally forced to bend and in doing so forms an unlikely relationship with Hesprec despite following different gods. Although not as prominent as the vast majority of other characters, I think I looked forward to their chapters the most. It is only a burgeoning relationship, but it's the only one built from character growth and it makes Kalameshli's character that much more intriguing, especially as he slowly, begrudgingly comes to respect a person who has played such a huge role in his daughter's life. The only thing missing here is the missed opportunity to have more interaction between him and Maniye. Even though they have hit the phase where they tolerate and ignore one another, it would be nice to see them cohabitate a bit more, but maybe Tchaikovsky is saving that for the next book.
I hope by the end of this my problems make sense, because it's no one thing that makes this book unenjoyable. In fact all of the issues separate of one another could be glossed over; for example if the only problem is that Asmander is a sad sack, or that Loud Thunder is a perpetual piner, I could probably plow through because there would be someone else to fill the space and make things more interesting. But with Maniye failing to be pivotal to the plot and the plethora of new, uninteresting POVs and competing plot lines, all together they multiply to create one long drawn out read, where although everything set up in this book is accomplished, it takes such a long time to get there I found myself uninterested in the resolutions. Even to the point where the well described fight scenes failed to make an impact. My only hope for the finale is that having wrapped up the estuary succession problem perhaps all characters can focus on the Plague People and come back together as a unit, where they worked so well before. I want to finish this series, but unfortunately due to this dragged out outing I'll be putting this on the back burner for a little bit to hopefully reset and try again. ***3 slogging stars***
March 20, 2023
My rating : 4.5 of 5 stars
Not as good as the first in the series, but still an excellent read. There's a lot going on in this one, and as a result, it's hard to keep up with everything going on. A lot of point-of-view changes, but not so many it confuses matters entirely. Definitely going to be heading straight into the third and final book.
Not as good as the first in the series, but still an excellent read. There's a lot going on in this one, and as a result, it's hard to keep up with everything going on. A lot of point-of-view changes, but not so many it confuses matters entirely. Definitely going to be heading straight into the third and final book.
February 27, 2024
"Sometimes good things arise out of bad. All we have of wisdom was born in treachery and betrayal, pain and loss."
This is the ninth Tchaikovsky book I read, and the first that did not immediately sweep me off my feet. World building, story weaving, and character growth were excellently done, as usual. The pacing felt off in the first half but I was addicted throughout the second. It may not be as strong as the first book but it definitely builds the path for a grand finale in the third book. And the beautiful cover, one of my favourite book covers ever, has definitely earned that fifth star.
"He was so weighted down by his own culpability that a mean surliness was all he could manage."
"Care about as little as possible, because the world will destroy it and the gods are cruel."
This is the ninth Tchaikovsky book I read, and the first that did not immediately sweep me off my feet. World building, story weaving, and character growth were excellently done, as usual. The pacing felt off in the first half but I was addicted throughout the second. It may not be as strong as the first book but it definitely builds the path for a grand finale in the third book. And the beautiful cover, one of my favourite book covers ever, has definitely earned that fifth star.
"He was so weighted down by his own culpability that a mean surliness was all he could manage."
"Care about as little as possible, because the world will destroy it and the gods are cruel."
October 26, 2022
Not flawless but much better then the first one. A very interesting reveal at the end makes me look forward to the last book in the trilogy.
May 25, 2024
Enjoying this series
January 3, 2018
I found myself wanting to like this more than I actually did, much like the 1st installment, only more so. The things I didn't like about the Tiger and the Wolf are more apparent in this sequel, although I couldn't tell you why. If I were to list all of its qualities the Echoes of the Fall series has everything I look for, complex characters, engaging plot, solid prose, strong world building, etc, but somehow it just doesn't do it for me. I find myself drifting off as I read, and when I think to sit down and read I find something else to do instead, which is generally a sign that I'm not enjoying a book that much. Perhaps it's because, although the characters are strong, I'm not attached to any of the cast. I'd say the only characters that interested me are Hesprec and Loud Thunder, but even then it's tenuous.
Overall I'd say it's a good book, just not quite for me.
Overall I'd say it's a good book, just not quite for me.
February 7, 2017
*I received a digital copy from Netgally in exchange for an honest review*
This is a fantastic sequel to the Tiger and the Wolf. I had high expectations for this book and it didn't disappoint. The world is so well written and so interesting. The development of the characters was great, the plot engaging throughout and the world is a new favourite of mine. There are so many amazing characters in this series and such a diverse range of people. I will say I would have liked more of Maniye but that is a minor complaint. Overall I highly recommend checking this series out, especially if you are a big fan of fantasy. I am very excited for the next book in the series.
This is a fantastic sequel to the Tiger and the Wolf. I had high expectations for this book and it didn't disappoint. The world is so well written and so interesting. The development of the characters was great, the plot engaging throughout and the world is a new favourite of mine. There are so many amazing characters in this series and such a diverse range of people. I will say I would have liked more of Maniye but that is a minor complaint. Overall I highly recommend checking this series out, especially if you are a big fan of fantasy. I am very excited for the next book in the series.
February 13, 2023
Middle books of fantasy trilogies are tricky beasts to review. As a novel on its own The Bear And The Serpent is something of a mess. As a plank in a greater whole it’s tough to say how well it does its job until I’ve read the third part. But it draws the parameters of that third part well, and the story in these 400 ish pages gallops along, switching between maybe a dozen were-creature protagonists, each time at exactly the right point to keep pulling you through. And in doing so Tchaikovsky subtly changes the kind of story you’ve been reading.
The Wolf And The Tiger is very much centred on its teenage protagonist Maniye as she deals with the demands of her tyrannous father and his ambitions for her. A fantasy coming of age novel with the usual trimmings, and Maniye set up at the end as a kind of Chosen One protagonist, gifted with a generational power and a ragtag band of companions. So far, so generic, even if it was very well done.
And it’s not that the Bear And The Serpent escapes the boundaries of genre but it at least moves to a different space within those boundaries. Maniye takes her power south to intervene in a power struggle in her Bronze Age world’s equivalent of Egypt… and one vital early rescue aside she’s out of her depth and ineffectual, one more distrusted player in the local political scene. Her original band has been replaced with an even more ragtag one, and it turns out that not every fantasy misfit is secretly misunderstood or hiding a secret power - some are wretched liabilities.
The rest of our heroes from the first book don’t have a much easier time of it. Nobody will really listen to Hesprec the Snake; Asmander the Crocodile’s likeable cynicism turns into genuine paralysis in the face of his own Dad’s schemes; Loud Thunder the Bear is uncomfortable in his role as a war leader and retreats into a dangerous infatuation. And other characters from Book 1 - minor allies and antagonists - have to push the story along: a Komodo Dragon, a cranky old Wolf, a solitary Owl.
As they do, and as Tchaikovsky reveals more about the overarching threat in the book, it becomes clear what he’s doing. The trilogy isn’t the story of a fantasy heroine fighting a great evil; it’s the story of a fantasy society reacting to an existential threat, and no particular individual is going to be the crucial factor, whether they had a book devoted to them or not.
This isn’t a new idea for modern fantasy - in its way it’s just as much a comfortable template as the chosen one narrative. But it’s an idea that suits Tchaikovsky’s strengths better than that narrative does, and it’s worth him taking a book to gradually and enjoyably shift his gears and get it moving.
The Wolf And The Tiger is very much centred on its teenage protagonist Maniye as she deals with the demands of her tyrannous father and his ambitions for her. A fantasy coming of age novel with the usual trimmings, and Maniye set up at the end as a kind of Chosen One protagonist, gifted with a generational power and a ragtag band of companions. So far, so generic, even if it was very well done.
And it’s not that the Bear And The Serpent escapes the boundaries of genre but it at least moves to a different space within those boundaries. Maniye takes her power south to intervene in a power struggle in her Bronze Age world’s equivalent of Egypt… and one vital early rescue aside she’s out of her depth and ineffectual, one more distrusted player in the local political scene. Her original band has been replaced with an even more ragtag one, and it turns out that not every fantasy misfit is secretly misunderstood or hiding a secret power - some are wretched liabilities.
The rest of our heroes from the first book don’t have a much easier time of it. Nobody will really listen to Hesprec the Snake; Asmander the Crocodile’s likeable cynicism turns into genuine paralysis in the face of his own Dad’s schemes; Loud Thunder the Bear is uncomfortable in his role as a war leader and retreats into a dangerous infatuation. And other characters from Book 1 - minor allies and antagonists - have to push the story along: a Komodo Dragon, a cranky old Wolf, a solitary Owl.
As they do, and as Tchaikovsky reveals more about the overarching threat in the book, it becomes clear what he’s doing. The trilogy isn’t the story of a fantasy heroine fighting a great evil; it’s the story of a fantasy society reacting to an existential threat, and no particular individual is going to be the crucial factor, whether they had a book devoted to them or not.
This isn’t a new idea for modern fantasy - in its way it’s just as much a comfortable template as the chosen one narrative. But it’s an idea that suits Tchaikovsky’s strengths better than that narrative does, and it’s worth him taking a book to gradually and enjoyably shift his gears and get it moving.
August 24, 2023
DNF. I hate leaving books unfinished, but I just can't get my brain to pay attention to the story and I'm just done. Two thirds of the way through is close enough.
This is by no means a bad book (or bad series for that matter), but it's just not for me. Can't exactly put my finger on why, but part of it is definitely that the motivations of the characters just remain very unclear or unfounded. Sure, Asmander supports Tecumen because they were childhood friends. But he was friends with his twin all the same, so why the loyalty to one but not the other? Wouldn't it be more interesting if he was more torn up about the war between the rival monarchs instead of this blind loyalty? And what on earth is Shyri's motivation? I guess in the first book she went with Asmander because she was bored, but is that still the case? I just don't buy that she's become good enough friends with Asmander to risk her life in a war in a foreign nation. Same goes for Maniye. Also, the first book focused on Maniye's search for a place to belong, but that's just entirely gone now? She just seems to be going through the motions of a war she has nothing to do with and for what? And why the heck is Takes Iron with her? Loud Thunder's storyline was really the only one I was mildly interested in and what kept me going, because at least it was clear that he was only reluctantly uniting the tribes out of loyalty to the Mother of the bears.
I could go on, but the bottom line is that this seems like a very plot-driven series and I was hoping for a more character-driven one. The world is well-crafted and the pacing is fine, but I was just hoping for a bit... more I guess.
P.s. sorry if I misspelled any names. I read the audiobook and I'm not sure about some of the spellings.
This is by no means a bad book (or bad series for that matter), but it's just not for me. Can't exactly put my finger on why, but part of it is definitely that the motivations of the characters just remain very unclear or unfounded. Sure, Asmander supports Tecumen because they were childhood friends. But he was friends with his twin all the same, so why the loyalty to one but not the other? Wouldn't it be more interesting if he was more torn up about the war between the rival monarchs instead of this blind loyalty? And what on earth is Shyri's motivation? I guess in the first book she went with Asmander because she was bored, but is that still the case? I just don't buy that she's become good enough friends with Asmander to risk her life in a war in a foreign nation. Same goes for Maniye. Also, the first book focused on Maniye's search for a place to belong, but that's just entirely gone now? She just seems to be going through the motions of a war she has nothing to do with and for what? And why the heck is Takes Iron with her? Loud Thunder's storyline was really the only one I was mildly interested in and what kept me going, because at least it was clear that he was only reluctantly uniting the tribes out of loyalty to the Mother of the bears.
I could go on, but the bottom line is that this seems like a very plot-driven series and I was hoping for a more character-driven one. The world is well-crafted and the pacing is fine, but I was just hoping for a bit... more I guess.
P.s. sorry if I misspelled any names. I read the audiobook and I'm not sure about some of the spellings.
July 29, 2020
3.5* I was totally expecting to love this as much as the first book but it took me quite a while to get into it, I thought this was down to listening to this on audio, as opposed to reading a paperback for the first book, and that fact that I kept getting distracted while doing so. But during the second half everything clicked and looking at reviews I am not the only one to enjoy this instalment less. I did however enjoy it just not as much as I'd hoped. There just seemed to be too much going on in the first half and I struggled to keep up and there was not enough of the characters I'd loved in the first book, though they were at least still there.
The third book I have on kindle so I am hoping for better things again. I love AT's writing and this is the first book I've not given 4 or 5 stars too.
The third book I have on kindle so I am hoping for better things again. I love AT's writing and this is the first book I've not given 4 or 5 stars too.
July 21, 2025
A change of tone compared to the first book but all the better for it.
Maniye has finally overcome her enemies but now she finds herself at a crossroads as the North no longer know what to make of her. So she decides to help Asmander with his quest down south, bringing with her a crew of other outcasts and misfits to help in the potential conflict between the Sun River Nation ruler siblings. Asmander himself will have to negotiate his feelings for each of the siblings while Loud Thunder is needs to finally accept the leadership of the North and deal with a potential existential threat to all of the nations.
I really enjoyed the last book but my main complaint was that it was a bit repetitive. Maniye just went from one disaster to another with random help and if this book had been the same I may have stopped the series. However it was completely different, the main plot only really seems to kick off here. Maniye is probably still the main character but Asmander and Loud Thunder get nearly as much screen time with Hesprec and Kalameshli also getting a few chapters.
The world just really feels much bigger here. I did love the cold barren North from the first book but the history and other tribes that we encounter just adds a lot more depth to the world. We also have the first interactions with the Plague people, a seemingly much more advanced race technologically speaking, that appears to be main antagonists of the series.
Things get tidied up fairly well by the end but it seems to have all been setup for the next book where I imagine things are going to escalate fairly rapidly. Very much looking forward to the concluding volume.
4.5 rounded down.
Please see this and other reviews at https://barrysbloodybooks.home.blog/
Maniye has finally overcome her enemies but now she finds herself at a crossroads as the North no longer know what to make of her. So she decides to help Asmander with his quest down south, bringing with her a crew of other outcasts and misfits to help in the potential conflict between the Sun River Nation ruler siblings. Asmander himself will have to negotiate his feelings for each of the siblings while Loud Thunder is needs to finally accept the leadership of the North and deal with a potential existential threat to all of the nations.
I really enjoyed the last book but my main complaint was that it was a bit repetitive. Maniye just went from one disaster to another with random help and if this book had been the same I may have stopped the series. However it was completely different, the main plot only really seems to kick off here. Maniye is probably still the main character but Asmander and Loud Thunder get nearly as much screen time with Hesprec and Kalameshli also getting a few chapters.
The world just really feels much bigger here. I did love the cold barren North from the first book but the history and other tribes that we encounter just adds a lot more depth to the world. We also have the first interactions with the Plague people, a seemingly much more advanced race technologically speaking, that appears to be main antagonists of the series.
Things get tidied up fairly well by the end but it seems to have all been setup for the next book where I imagine things are going to escalate fairly rapidly. Very much looking forward to the concluding volume.
4.5 rounded down.
Please see this and other reviews at https://barrysbloodybooks.home.blog/
July 14, 2020
Loud Thunder 💕💕💕❣️💘💝💓💗💗💓💓💓💖💖💞🤎💗💝
December 11, 2024
I really enjoyed the second book in this series. I loved seeing more of the world and starting to get an idea of what is happening in the wider world i9n regards to the doom that everyone seems to be predicting. The characters were great as the authors characters normal are. I liked looking more in detail at the religions and beliefs of the different tribes. Cannot wait to finish this series off.
December 23, 2017
So previously I have done a review of the first book in this series, The Tiger and the Wolf. And, if you care to check, I will put a link at the end of this review. Starting out this review I want to say, that, I absolutely love this book, and had it not been for some personal problems with the plot I would have rated it 5 stars! I love this series, and is without a doubt in my mind my favourite series! So, getting that past, let's get into the real “meat” of this review! Stating before this that there will be spoilers in this review if you have not read the first book, so if you have any interest in it, please stop reading and read the series. So worth it!
In this book, Maniye “Many Tracks” has returned, and now she is the leader of her own pack of misfits and outcasts. As the champion, eyes turn to her as she travels south to help Asmander as his two childhood friends, Tecuman and Tecumet, battle for the Daybreak Throne. But, back in the Crown of the World, Loud Thunder attempts to unite all of the different tribes against a common enemy, known in old legends as the Plague People. People without a soul, yearning to take the soul from those who do. The world teeters on the brink of war, as tensions rise high in both the North and the South, and the ever-present question. Can a common enemy really unite old rivals?
So, the first thing I want to tackle is the plot. This is what makes me give this book 4 stars and not the 5 stars. So, part of the reason I love this series is how slow it is. Its detail on everything gives me a feeling of calm and helps to engross one in the book. But, with this book, I felt that its slowness was the downfall of the plot for me. This whole book, was based on a very useless plot. With Loud Thunder, I found it more necessary. The introduction of the Plague People as he tries to unite the tribes of the Crown of the World. I enjoyed that part of the plot, and while I also believe it took its time, it was vital to the plot. As for Maniye’s plot, I didn’t really enjoy it. While it gave enjoyable scenes, the whole conflict could have been resolved in ten minutes if Hesprec had thought if it sooner. It just felt quite useless and a filler. I enjoyed her part in the ending of the book than any other part of her story. That is the only true reason that I took off the half star because the secondary plot was just quite boring. But, Loud Thunders plot on the other hand. I already touched on it a little bit, but I really did love it. The underlying tension between the tribes is always there as any moment the whole thing could be blown apart if a tiger bumps into a wolf, and I feel that gives the plot a more depth to it, as unpredictability is its lifeline. It was really good, I wish it had been the whole plot, with Asmander and Maniye involved with it. I feel that their plot could have been handled differently.
So the second thing to talk about is the characters. I still love them. Each of them is so different and so unique in every way and I can appreciate the way that Tchaikovsky writes each of them differently with different goals and longings. Having fallen in love with the characters in the first book I loved getting to read about them again, how things have developed. In all honesty, I didn’t feel as invested in them as I had in the first book. I believe this could be a consequence of the different point of views, as I didn’t feel supremely connected to a particular character. But, there were really good character developments, specifically from Takes Iron, Loud Thunder, Asmander, and Venat. The changes from them since the last book was thrilling, as you can see how it had changed them from who they thought they were. That sometimes what makes you believe makes you weak, can really make you strong. That sometimes what we think is good for us, is really a poison. That we must let go of past transgressions to move forward. All of these are presented in those four characters I stated above, and so much more that it just makes the book, and in that way the series, so much more fascinating.
I mentioned this in my last review, but the world created here is truly beautiful. Everything has been thought out so well, and it is something that goes beyond what Tchaikovsky has created, something for other writers to explore. I feel that is something every writer strives to get when they create a world, where other writers can go and write about as well. Something open to interpretation, beyond what the writer himself tells. I feel that Tchaikovsky has created that, with so much unknown past it gives the perfect balance of mystery for other writers to interpret themselves and I feel that is what makes this book truly beautiful.
Well, as I try to wrap this review up, it is snowing. I forget how much I love snow as opposed to rain, for its more calming presence. Plus I have a candle next to me that claims it smells of a Winter Morning so I am in a pretty cheerful mood. Overall, having just finished a fantastic book, and preparing for a walk in the snow. I bide you Merry Christmas, Happy New Years (cause I doubt I will finish the next book before New Years) and happy readings!
Tiger and the Wolf Review: https://bekahbook.wordpress.com/2017/...
In this book, Maniye “Many Tracks” has returned, and now she is the leader of her own pack of misfits and outcasts. As the champion, eyes turn to her as she travels south to help Asmander as his two childhood friends, Tecuman and Tecumet, battle for the Daybreak Throne. But, back in the Crown of the World, Loud Thunder attempts to unite all of the different tribes against a common enemy, known in old legends as the Plague People. People without a soul, yearning to take the soul from those who do. The world teeters on the brink of war, as tensions rise high in both the North and the South, and the ever-present question. Can a common enemy really unite old rivals?
So, the first thing I want to tackle is the plot. This is what makes me give this book 4 stars and not the 5 stars. So, part of the reason I love this series is how slow it is. Its detail on everything gives me a feeling of calm and helps to engross one in the book. But, with this book, I felt that its slowness was the downfall of the plot for me. This whole book, was based on a very useless plot. With Loud Thunder, I found it more necessary. The introduction of the Plague People as he tries to unite the tribes of the Crown of the World. I enjoyed that part of the plot, and while I also believe it took its time, it was vital to the plot. As for Maniye’s plot, I didn’t really enjoy it. While it gave enjoyable scenes, the whole conflict could have been resolved in ten minutes if Hesprec had thought if it sooner. It just felt quite useless and a filler. I enjoyed her part in the ending of the book than any other part of her story. That is the only true reason that I took off the half star because the secondary plot was just quite boring. But, Loud Thunders plot on the other hand. I already touched on it a little bit, but I really did love it. The underlying tension between the tribes is always there as any moment the whole thing could be blown apart if a tiger bumps into a wolf, and I feel that gives the plot a more depth to it, as unpredictability is its lifeline. It was really good, I wish it had been the whole plot, with Asmander and Maniye involved with it. I feel that their plot could have been handled differently.
So the second thing to talk about is the characters. I still love them. Each of them is so different and so unique in every way and I can appreciate the way that Tchaikovsky writes each of them differently with different goals and longings. Having fallen in love with the characters in the first book I loved getting to read about them again, how things have developed. In all honesty, I didn’t feel as invested in them as I had in the first book. I believe this could be a consequence of the different point of views, as I didn’t feel supremely connected to a particular character. But, there were really good character developments, specifically from Takes Iron, Loud Thunder, Asmander, and Venat. The changes from them since the last book was thrilling, as you can see how it had changed them from who they thought they were. That sometimes what makes you believe makes you weak, can really make you strong. That sometimes what we think is good for us, is really a poison. That we must let go of past transgressions to move forward. All of these are presented in those four characters I stated above, and so much more that it just makes the book, and in that way the series, so much more fascinating.
I mentioned this in my last review, but the world created here is truly beautiful. Everything has been thought out so well, and it is something that goes beyond what Tchaikovsky has created, something for other writers to explore. I feel that is something every writer strives to get when they create a world, where other writers can go and write about as well. Something open to interpretation, beyond what the writer himself tells. I feel that Tchaikovsky has created that, with so much unknown past it gives the perfect balance of mystery for other writers to interpret themselves and I feel that is what makes this book truly beautiful.
Well, as I try to wrap this review up, it is snowing. I forget how much I love snow as opposed to rain, for its more calming presence. Plus I have a candle next to me that claims it smells of a Winter Morning so I am in a pretty cheerful mood. Overall, having just finished a fantastic book, and preparing for a walk in the snow. I bide you Merry Christmas, Happy New Years (cause I doubt I will finish the next book before New Years) and happy readings!
Tiger and the Wolf Review: https://bekahbook.wordpress.com/2017/...
August 11, 2019
Really solid sequel. I think the writing was better overall in this one. Not that there was any one thing wrong with the first book, just this overall was a higher quality effort. The story itself was a bit more political and a lot more spiritual in this second book. There was still a lot of action and fight sequences. The book itself was really two independent plot lines that were told and concluded, but ultimately made for a setup book to the 3rd and final in the series. Once again I will say that Tchaikovsky has succeeded in creating a very interesting world with engaging characters. I just think in book 2 there was a bit less action and more political, spiritual and religious intrigue, which is exactly what I hoped for. So well done. I'm in it now, I think I'm going jump right to book 3 The Hawk and the Hyena.
July 4, 2023
This is the second book set in the fascinating world of the Echoes of the Fall trilogy. We get many of the characters of the first book. The scope of the plot widens enormously and the expanded cast or characters are more developed.
The story line is skilfully managed but it must be remembered that “The Bear and the Serpent” is a a “bridge” novel and while some of the story arcs are partially resolved the novel does end with a very effective cliff hanger.
It is a very enjoyable book and one hastens to continue the voyage.
The story line is skilfully managed but it must be remembered that “The Bear and the Serpent” is a a “bridge” novel and while some of the story arcs are partially resolved the novel does end with a very effective cliff hanger.
It is a very enjoyable book and one hastens to continue the voyage.
August 6, 2021
A very good book, good characters with interesting life choices and changed to them and nice to see some of them grow. Didn't think I would like Amander's river world but it held my interest.
It doesn't suprise me that Adrian present a threat at the beginning of this book and from what I understand let the next book handle most of its impact. I'm used to his big bold world's by now and enjoy the various settings and types of characters created.
It doesn't suprise me that Adrian present a threat at the beginning of this book and from what I understand let the next book handle most of its impact. I'm used to his big bold world's by now and enjoy the various settings and types of characters created.
January 25, 2019
This book had a very slow buildup but the ending was worth the effort for me. However I can see how one might just decide to put this one down in favor of some more instant gratification. I did enjoy it though.
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