Water Logic

Elemental Logic #3

by Laurie J. Marks

By water logic, a cow doctor becomes a politician. A soldier becomes a flower farmer. A lost book contains a lost future. The patterns of history are made and unmade.

Amid assassinations, rebellions, and the pyres of too many dead, a new government forms in the land of Shaftal—a government of soldiers and farmers, scholars and elemental talents, all weary of war and longing for peace. But some cannot forget their losses, and some cannot imagine a place for themselves in an enemy land. Before memory, before recorded history, something happened that now must be remembered. Zanja na’Tarwein, the crosser of boundaries, born in fire and wedded to earth, has fallen under the ice. Now, by water logic, the logic of patterns repeated, of laughter and music, the lost must be found—or the found may forever be lost.

Laurie J. Marks teaches at the University of Massachusetts Boston. She is the author of five previous novels, and her first two Elemental Logic novels (Fire Logic and Earth Logic) won the Gaylactic Spectrum Award and received multiple starred reviews. She is a recipient of the Fairy Godmother Award (James D. Tiptree, Jr. Award) and a founding member of Broad Universe.

Genres: Fantasy, LGBT, Queer, Fiction, Lesbian, Science Fiction Fantasy, Queer Fantasy

332 pages, Paperback

First published June 1, 2007

Reviews

[ChanningOverYourTatum · Rating 4 out of 5]

4.25

[Anna · Rating 5 out of 5]

I sure hope I remember this book once the last one in the series comes out. But since she's been working on it for five years so far, I'm not holding my breath....

Maybe she takes so long writing these books because each one explores a new and complex issue. Water Logic covers how two different cultures can coexist in the same space --- very relevant to our modern life.

Despite pain and agony repeatedly cropping up in the plot, the book leaves you with a peaceful feeling.

[Em · Rating 5 out of 5]

second time reading and the emotional beats were just as powerful as they had been two years ago. this is an incredible series, marrying politics and fantasy and philosophy for which i am hard pressed to find an equivalent. as before, i can’t help but take my time with these books, relishing each moment, conversation, joy, and heartbreak.

[Juushika · Rating 3 out of 5]

A weak book in a strong series. It interweaves three plotlines in gimmicky, cliffhangery ways, and there's enough mirroring across plotlines to render the cliffhangers virtually interchangeable. I also continue to struggle with the elemental magics, which are increasingly concrete despite their figurative roots in the first book--and by this point that means literal time travel. In retrospect, I think it works: by the end of the series, the various branches of magic (and relationships between them) span figurative to literal, delineated to intuitive, creating a dynamic whole. I wonder if that impression will carry through to rereads and inform my future reactions to this book.

The overall strengths of the series persist, in particular its gradually expanding cast and scale underpinned by strong emotional investment. I appreciate the ongoing insistence on cost (albeit continually undermined by the uncomfortable role of magical healing): the personal is political, and vice versa.

[Ronnie · Rating 4 out of 5]

This was a reread, though the first read was long enough ago that it was like reading the book for the first time.

I find it impossible to fly through these books, to devour them in just a few sittings like I do most other books. Even still, I love them. I love them for their philosophy and their messages. I love them for their rich and interesting characters, and their intricate worldbuilding. I love them for being one of the first queer fantasy series I was ever lucky enough to stumble upon.

This is yet another great entry into the Elemental Logic series, and I'll look forward to reading Air Logic for the very first time in just a couple of months.

[Maša · Rating 3 out of 5]

Peace is not just absence of war, muses one of the protagonists. How does one begin to live in peace after a generation of colonialism? Karis takes over as a leader and has to make some hard choices, as does the defeated general, Clement. There arenassasins and time travel, Zanja disappears once again and the water magic seems to be behind it.

This unique series continues to check my boxes for meaningful narrative and intriguing ideas. The plot is nonexistent and the uncertainty and things left unsaid are plenty, which I do like but I doubt I would've enjoyed it as much if it wasn't for the writer's way with words and my own preferences. That said, this is weaker than previous books, and I hope the last book will be a good conclusion - because I don't know what's left, really. The momentum is gone.

[Whitney · Rating 3 out of 5]

After the fall of the wall of the Watfield garrison, a new Shaftal is beginning to form. But assassins, meddling water witches, and stubborn Sainnite commanders stand in the way of Shaftal's rise to it's former greatness. By water logic, there may be a solution yet to these problems.

Plot

Now that the war has ended, there is a new fight brewing: a fight for peace. Along with that, Zanja deals with time travel and Karis deals with an air witch and her attempts to assassinate Shaftal’s G’deon. Normally, all of the peace talk would make for a boring book, but it works in Water Logic because there are more interesting plots, like dealing with assassins and time travel via water, that breaks up the monotony. I was so invested that it was hard to put the book down this time around. There are very few dull moments in the book, not only because of the plot but because one should be used to Marks’s writing by now to be able to breeze through the book.

Writing

While I’ve grown used to Marks’s writing, there was a lot more abstract writing in Water Logic, just like in Fire Logic. There were times where I wasn’t sure exactly what was going on because it wasn’t said outright. This went for both the narration and when certain people, like Norina, talked. I used context and understood the gist of what was said, but all of the cryptic talk was more annoying than anything and I didn’t focus on it for too long, lest I be stuck on it for a while.

Characters

For Water Logic the characters we’re focused on are Zanja, Seth, the cow doctor from the last book, and Clement, the Sainnite general. Karis, Norina, J’han, Garland, Emil, and Medric are in the book, and they do play important roles, but they’re regulated to the background this time. Zanja isn’t what one would call a proactive character. She was in the first book, but now she lets the fates do what they will with her and pretty much goes with the flow now. Seth was almost like a mix of Zanja and Karis. She’s an earth blood like Karis, but she’s not quiet and as solemn as Karis. There’s just a lot of her character that was just pieces of Karis in another person. With Clement, we get to see a lot of her internal thoughts, which would seemingly add to her character, if the reader didn’t already know that she wasn’t much of a person for violence and fighting. Her actions were interesting, but not her internal thoughts.

Things I Liked

I liked that Water Logic explored one group of the border people: the ones that lived around the water. Because of Zanja’s comment earlier in the book about the other border people I had hoped to hear more about them, but it was nice to hear about even one group, as they have been the only non-white people the Elemental Logic series has presented thus far.

Things I Didn't Like

Three books in and I still have the same issue with this world: key components are not explained. For example, what exactly is the difference between an elemental and an elemental witch? Apparently there is a difference because Karis was the only earth witch in Shaftal, but it’s never explained. Elemental bloods and elemental witches seem like a cool concept but it’s hard to be interested in it because it’s never explained!

Diversity

Nobody is straight, Zanja is the only non-white main character, though she does spend a lot of Water Logic with the non-white people of an ocean tribe, and that’s about it. There is a disabled character, Damon, though he’s not much of a main character.

Overall

I was a lot more interested in Water Logic than the other two books. Things just moved a lot faster and I’ve grown so used to Marks’s writing that I’ve managed to enjoy the book. Water Logic offers an interesting look into the part of stories that take place after wars. I’d be more excited for the next book in the series if it hadn’t been in development since 2007 or something. But the lack of a fourth book doesn’t ruin the first three books.

Here is a link to my notes.

[Wealhtheow · Rating 3 out of 5]

This is the third part of the Elemental Logic series, and the weakest. Karis and her rag tag band of Sainnite and Shaftalese allies are still trying to bring all of Shaftal together. Most of the book follows either the Sainnite general Clement and her Shaftalese cow-doctor lover Seth, or Zanja and her travel back into Shaftal's past. I was frustrated with the Seth and Clement plot, because I wanted more details on how Clement subdued and convinced the Sainnites to surrender and less on Clement's inner pain. I was even more frustrated with Zanja's plot, because at the beginning of the book it seems like she'll be dealing with the Border People and instead she spends the entire book trudging the past trying to learn glyphs. Language is a huge theme in these books, but so is colonization and invasion, and I really wish more time (any time?) had been spent on a plot regarding the border lands. I wouldn't demand so much of this series if any other writers were working on similar issues of cultural identity, peace, nationalism, etc.

This a good book in a fantastic, thought-provoking and truly unique series.

[Althea Ann · Rating 4 out of 5]

I read the first two in this series (Fire Logic and Earth Logic) quite a while ago. I wish I'd read them closer together, before the details faded in my memory, but the first two were published by Tor, and this one by Small Beer Press, which is an excellent publisher, but as its name might indicate, a smaller one, so it took me a while to get a copy.
It's really too bad that Tor apparently dropped this series, because it's really a cut above the average. It has an interesting, well-realized world with interesting cultural elements and magical details, as well as engaging, rounded characters. The story kept my interest, while creating a thoughtful dialogue about the clashes of cultures and the personal attitudes that can lead to conflict or pacifism.

[Elena · Rating 5 out of 5]

This book is not as strong as the first two books in the series, in terms of the plotting, which was more haphazard and felt unfinished at the conclusion of the book. To some extent, this serves to (presumably) set the reader up for the fourth book in the series, but I'm not a big fan of books that leave significant plot points hanging that way.

That said, the book does still have the fascinating themes and strong character development of the last two books, and on top of that, is published by Small Beer Press instead of Tor, and thus has a much better look and feel (the Hot Warrior Woman covers of the first two books didn't really do the content justice).

[Joe · Rating 3 out of 5]

This book suffers a little from what I call the "gay bubble effect." Marks is always thoughtful and I really appreciate the way she brings alternative sexualities to a genre (fantastic fiction) that has not always embraced them. Yet I find the dearth of straight characters in her books nearly as jarring as when authors include no gay characters. It's fantasy, so I don't expect the world to be realistic, but it took some doing to readjust my worldview and appreciate the complex network of relationships that Marks lays out in Water Logic.

At its heart, this book is intensely romantic and almost philosophical, and while I found it somewhat troublesome I have enjoyed it so far.

[Kat Heatherington · Rating 5 out of 5]

I love this whole series. Vibrant, compelling, action-packed and highly original. And subversively queer. This is some of the best queer fiction I have ever read, especially in how the world just assumes its queerness, rather than making a big deal out of it; people are simply people, regardless of whom they love. it's brilliant. i cannot wait for the final volume to come out.

[Illusode · Rating 5 out of 5]

Tolerable time travel! Usually I hate that tool, because the charcters inevitably tie themselves in knots over the philosophies involved or I do, but the characters were so confounded that it seemed plausible. Whatever.

Also, there were more descriptions of people in this book than the previous two, enabling me to visualize scenes and actions more vividly.

[Alicia · Rating 4 out of 5]

http://wordnerdy.blogspot.com/2018/05...

https://wordnerdy.blogspot.com/2021/1...

The third book in Marks' Elemental Logic series continues the trend of being great and engrossing, if also occasionally weird and confusing (although the ending here made all the previous stuff work really well). Now we just have to wait for the conclusion. A/A-.

[Audrey · Rating 3 out of 5]

If you're looking for a steady read with a solid LGBTQIA underpinning, it will suit. Interesting world. A bit cluttered feeling, the story doesn't particularly shine... but there is a good underpinning and I enjoyed it well enough.

[Jacqie · Rating 5 out of 5]

Around the Year in 52 Books 2024: 28. A book related to sea

It has been quite some time since I read the first two books in this series and all I remembered from then was Karis and Zanja. I didn't have a problem getting up to speed, though.

In this world, a revolution has just happened. Karis, with the full power of the earth behind her, has taken her place as the spiritual and political leader of her people. They have thrown off the yoke of an invading force. Right now, Karis and Zanja and the other members of their circle are trying to figure out how to come to some sort of accommodation with their former conquerors, who have nowhere else to go.

There are cultural differences and perceptions of difference to overcome as well as longstanding resentments and desire for retribution. In the middle of all this, Karis's wife Zanja is transported away by water to a time in the past. A powerful water witch has drawn Zanja back in time and Zanja must figure out why if she is ever to return.

Magic has to do with worldview in this book. Fire spirit people are quick and intuitive. Earth folk are practical, stubborn and don't have a lot of patience for nonsense. That we learned in the first two books, but we have so far seen little of air people and even less of water. Turns out that water people have a fluid sense of relationships, time and space. Air is the next and probably last book in the series, and if there is an element that is uncomfortable for others to deal with it is air. These folk love working with words and logic and have the ability to see through to the truth of things, uncomfortably so.

Marks has created a book full of characters that I loved to spend time with. It takes a lot to get me to shed a tear over a book but she managed. The people in her world focus a lot on relationships and the value system is quite different from our own- it might be nice if we could focus on people more than profit as they do. They understand that caring for people and the land is what allows prosperity in the long run. This is also a very queer book- I can't think of any main characters who aren't queer and nothing is made of it, it's just how things are.

I liked getting into the mindset that this book demanded and plan to finish off the series soon.

[Lyri Ahnam · Rating 3 out of 5]

Water Logic is the third novel in the Elemental Logic series by Laurie J. Marks. It follows many of the same characters as the previous books: the warrior-woman Zanja and her wife Karis; the soldier Clement and her lover Seth, a cow-doctor.
The story deepens the political impasse between the Sainnite invaders and the native Shaftali. The Sainnite military are embroiled in an internal struggle over leadership, while the Shaftali are divided over whether to forgive the Sainnites or punish them for their past misdeeds.
I enjoyed the found-family aspect of these books and the moral dilemmas the characters wrestle with within the larger political context. There are no easy answers, and the author deftly explores the potential consequences of action and inaction.

Some favorite passages:
* The silence made Seth’s ears feel empty.
* The trail was steep and slippery with mud, and her legs wobbled like warped wagon wheels.
* Putting on her sodden clothing was about as pleasant as rolling naked in the snow.
* Seth could have named each of these pastures or hay fields but did not subject Damon [or the reader] to that recital.
* One of the people at the table had been Seth’s brother. They had grown up together at High Meadow, and it was possible they might share a parent, though no one paid attention to such things here. [realistic polyamory]
* As the sun set, a solitary woodland bird began calling for company but received no answer. The water at the bottom of the cliff lapped and sighed. Distant waves boomed.
* For peace, thought Seth, is not merely the absence of war. It is all the things that war displaces, the things that war makes not merely unachievable, but unimaginable.

There was much to enjoy in Water Logic, however the novel as a whole wasn't as satisfying as the previous two books. Two favorite characters were off-stage for most of the story: one caught out of time, the other in a numbed state following a horrific trauma. This slowed the pace and undermined the cohesiveness of the narrative. I enjoyed the reveal near the end that recast much of the story in a new light, but it wasn't enough to salvage the meandering plot. A disappointing novel despite my love for the characters and the world of Shaftal.

[Lydia · Rating 3 out of 5]

I'm reviewing the series as a whole, because I read them back to back. A very interesting world! I got attached to all the main characters (a MUST for me), I especially liked Zanja, and later in the series, the Clem/Seth storyline, I enjoyed the slow pace of it, and here comes the but... But the plot was kind of loosey goosey, especially in the second two books. I didn't mind it being slow, but sometimes it seemed completely directionless. It was not very gripping, and I had no problem putting any of them down. In the first book, I was very thrown off by the sex, not because of being prudish, but because it was like: Aha, two characters who have never seen each other before meet in a tavern, so obviously they will go out back and have sex in the stable immediately. Or, oh I have been hiking in the snow for days and I am stinky and wet and smell like wool and you're hot and gave me shelter so let's get it on. I'm not buying it. It's too random. There was one storyline with sex that did make sense, but that was the only one that did, to my mind.

And here's my primary complaint, which contains a spoiler from the third book: It spoils the whole "let's make peace and learn to live with each other" thing when surprise! They aren't actually different after all! They are the same people group and were refugees at different times!!! What a cop out.

I liked the cover of the third book a lot. I would recommend the series for the sake of the characters, but that's about it.

[Dianna · Rating 2 out of 5]

Well, this book definitely wasn't what I expected...I thought the last book in the series would wrap up the story by focusing on how peace would be achieved between the Sainnites and the Shaftali, and while that was addressed to some extent, the primary story here follows Zanja as she goes on another journey and crosses yet another boundary, this time the boundary being time itself.

While on a simple mission for the G'deon to bring back some guard dogs, Zanja falls into the freezing cold waters of a lake (or river?) when the ice cracks and is dragged some 200 years back in time. Alone and without any resources, she has to figure out who brought her back and what they wish for her to achieve. Meanwhile in current times, the Sainnite general Clement pays a visit to some rebel commanders led by her one time friend and lover and has to use force to bring them under control, at great cost to her own body and mind.

Once again, we see a demonstration of how powerful water magic can be here, and again, that makes me wonder why there is no fire magic in this world except for the prescience that seems to attend all fire bloods.

Some of the other side characters who I enjoyed reading about, such as Emil and Medric, didn't play a very big role in this book. Sadness.

Since all the characters were spread out, especially with Zanja stuck in the past, we didn't get to experience their family dynamics which was such a big part of the second book.

Karis's powers were limited here by the death of two of her ravens. It seems like every time one dies, it comes at great price to herself.

[Vervada · Rating 5 out of 5]

Just when I thought that this series couldn't get better somehow it did. While reading the first part of "Water Logic" I believed that it would end up being my least favourite of the three, but, after the second part started, I realised how wrong that assessment was. I have read quite a lot of books with multiple povs and multiple plot lines and I always seem to prefer one above the others even when it's by a very small margin. Here, that didn't happen at all. I would end a chapter and desperately want to know what would happen next to the characters in question and then I would start another chapter featuring different characters and I would immediately become engrossed in it. The writing was sublime, the ideas made me actually stop and think, the plot was both pretty simple and quite complex at the same time and the characters are people that I would really like to meet in real life. My only small "complaint" is: I wanted more Norina. She's such an intriguing character and I'm so happy that the next book will focus on air logic. What I'm not so happy about is the fact that the next book is also the last one; I would have happily read at least another ten books about the people of Shaftal.

Overall, a heartbreaking, uplifting story about people struggling to create peace in a world resigned to war.

[Sarah Melissa · Rating 5 out of 5]

This is the third book in Marks' elemental logic series. I am working my way back, re-reading. Zanja drowns, and crosses the boundaries of time again, primarily it seems to rescue a book of glyphs, which seem rather like our modern day round Motherpeace tarot cards. But she is really fulfilling the agenda of a water witch who dwells outside time, and who wants to antagonize the G'deon of the past, the earth witch. It is all rather complicated.
The most touching thing for me about this book is that General Clement of the invaders, who is a brave soldier who hates violence, has to kill five sub commanders for mutiny. Earlier, Clement is gravely wounded with a stomach wound, and Karis is just barely able to reach her in time to heal her. Meanwhile Clement is in unspeakable agony. Karis turns something off in her mind, or brain, to make it easier for her to kill the commanders and repress memory of the pain from the stomach wound, but this reduces her to a puppet. Karis and Norina, the air witch who understands the mind, decide jointly to restore her to sanity and she screams and screams and screams, but they do succeed.
Invaders and natives are already beginning to work with one another as this book begins. They are learning each other's languages.

[Ren Bedasbad · Rating 3 out of 5]

The third book in the Elemental Logic series picks off at the end of Earth Logic with a continued focus on the main two characters, Zanja and Karis. It continues with the conflict with Shaftali and Sainnites, but also goes off in its own way into other plotlines. Compared to the first two books, this one is not near as good. It is still a good book and I enjoyed it, but it didn't have as much weight or interest as the first two. It does very little to carry the overall plot forward as is more self-contained. There are also a few plot-holes that didn't make much sense. The prose is excellent and Zanja and Karis are always interesting characters. I'll definitely be checking out the last book of the series.

[Lauren · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is an amazing book. Hard to enter into, and a slog at times, but the author has carefully put together an assemblage of characters that go so deep as to make you feel like they are intimate friends. The questions put forth in this third novel of a series, are ones that humans on the earth of the early 21st century would be familiar with. How, with all of our acute differences may we learn to live with one another? There is much hope at the end that this may come about, at least in the world the novel takes place in. Of course there is magic involved, but that, in essence is what we need as well.

[Erin :) · Rating 4 out of 5]

Poignant and enchanting as the other two books. At a couple of points, I almost cried. As for the characters, I hope Seth features in the next book just as much. I also was a bit disappointed at how little Emil and Medric featured. Zanja broke my heart, as usual, but I'm glad she and Karis had some happiness. I found Water Logic didn't drag as much as the second book, Earth Logic. However, the ending and plot felt a bit unfinished. Perhaps that is because there is one more book to go? Perhaps it is because I am not used to the shifting water logic. ;)

PS: The cow dogs are totally corgis, right? I love them so very much.

[Macha · Rating 4 out of 5]

this one, third in the series of four, is a bit different. water logic is chaotic, and the story follows that lead by describing a lot more magic within a great deal of frenetic action. a trip to the past and back to the present is made, changing the world at both ends, because water magic is all about change. this lends the story considerable weight and propels the characters into unfamiliar pathways. they are now so dear and familiar, i'm truly going to hate to see this series come to an end. it's such an intricate tale, a tangle of story, best practice would be to read the four books in order, and all at once. this one's especially good, and that's a high bar.

[Nancy · Rating 3 out of 5]

More like 3.5. I did enjoy this, but not as much as the first two in the series. I found Zanja’s time traveling story interesting, and I absolutely loved Seth and her arc, but the story just moved slower than it did in Fire Logic and Earth logic, and I found myself getting bored a couple of times. That said, I did love the additional worldbuilding we got in this one, and as I said I adored watching Seth’s development. I also really, really loved Clement’s arc (she remains one of my favorite characters), as tragic as it was. I did miss the side characters a lot.

[W.L. Bolm · Rating 4 out of 5]

This third installment in the series goes deeper into the way the elemental logics work, deeper into the world's philosophy, deeper into its history, and deeper into what makes Sainnites Sainnites and Shaftali Shaftali, and the ties that bind them. I'm a bit of a political junkie, and I especially appreciated the characters' steps out of survival and into society and government building. I'm not a huge fan of the story that ran parallel to Shaftal's reconstruction, but I was still engrossed by the story as a whole.

[Rhi Marks · Rating 4 out of 5]

The third book in the series threw me for a loop -- a good loop. I read a lot of reviews that thought this book was "weaker" than the first two. Plot wise, there are some crazy things that happen but I think that's how water logic works in the series. As the series progresses, I find my understanding of how elemental logic works expanding but no one in the book spells it out for you.

The group dynamic doesn't get stale, as new members are slowly added. The core dynamic doesn't change, so the new editions feel more like they are filling a gap than changing the dynamic.

[Jennifer Collins · Rating 4 out of 5]

The third book in Laurie J. Marks' Elemental Logic series, Water Logic picks up where the earlier books leave off, and absolutely lives up to their magic. Partially made up of dual narratives that echo each other in a gorgeous line of symmetry, the book pulls together all of the magic and wonder from the earlier books, and only builds upon it all. As true-feeling as the characters are, the book's world is one that you can't help being sucked into.

I'd absolutely recommend this series, and I can't wait to read the fourth.

[Sinclair Adams · Rating 4 out of 5]

The distinct worldbuilding function of "logics" makes the characters a bit hard to understand. But once you have breached the characters' understanding (or embrace their own lack of understanding) you will find a story that builds realistic relationships and bends time in an ever-so-rarely successful way. It builds off of the events of the first two books with deft continuity and leaves you hungry for more.