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H2O and the Waters of Forgetfulness: Reflections on the Historicity of "Stuff"
s/t: Reflections on the Historicity of Stuff
In the course of this brilliant essay the author traces the way water has been shorn of its mythic associations and reduced to an urban cleaning fluid. The histories of medicine, art, mythology, architecture, technology, and conceptions of the afterlife come into play as the changing role of water in our lives is revealed.
In the course of this brilliant essay the author traces the way water has been shorn of its mythic associations and reduced to an urban cleaning fluid. The histories of medicine, art, mythology, architecture, technology, and conceptions of the afterlife come into play as the changing role of water in our lives is revealed.
92 pages, Paperback
First published January 1, 1985
About the author
Ivan Illich
105 books488 followersIvan Illich was an Austrian philosopher, Roman Catholic priest and critic of the institutions of contemporary western culture and their effects of the provenance and practice of education, medicine, work, energy use, and economic development.
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Displaying 1 - 12 of 12 reviews
November 3, 2008
A little philosophy and a lot of history. The theme is our relationship with water, especially in cities. I love the title and the idea and the writer, but was a little disappointed with the actual book. It was a little dry.
August 14, 2025
The ending felt a bit abrupt. I think it could have been more comprehensive. The last few paragraphs were phenomenal and had the potential to philosophically dig additional uncharted concepts on water in modernity and modern cities, and yet, to my disappointment, all I was left with were the end notes.
June 7, 2026
My thoughts through out:
First 25 %: What a strange essay collection.
Next 50%: actually surprisingly fascinating and progressive
Last 2 sentences: literally how do you draw than conclusion from your own arguments? I am so confused!
First 25 %: What a strange essay collection.
Next 50%: actually surprisingly fascinating and progressive
Last 2 sentences: literally how do you draw than conclusion from your own arguments? I am so confused!
May 18, 2013
This book describes the shift in the symbolic meaning of water through western history. Essentially, water has gone from being a magical substance to as Ivan Illich describes it: "a man-made cleaning fluid". Much of the book focuses on the changing views towards excretion and body odor because these changing views influenced humanity's relationship to water. Also discussed are historic sources of water for cities and how that shaped the human-water relationship.
February 11, 2009
Ivan Illich stretches the imagination. He turns the world upside down as the man who gave me the book said. That is if you can understand if of course, not simple.
May 23, 2026
A contemplative, intellectual narration with prominent philosophical and historical undertones. I enjoyed the etymological references too. Some elements did become tedious to read about so deeply.
“But con-templatio is not enough. The outline of the templum cannot settle upon the earth unless it is properly con-sidered, aligned with the stars (sidus). Con-sideratio follows con-templatio. Consideratio aligns the cardo (the axes) of the templum with the city's "star." The cardo was originally a "hinge" with an explicit, concrete, masculine-feminine sym-bolism.”
“Most people today do not dwell in the place where they spend their days and leave no traces in the place where they spend their nights.”
“As a vehicle for metaphors, water is a shifting mirror. What it says reflects the fashions of the age; what it seems to reveal and betray hides the stuff that lies beneath.”
“The first liquid to which "circulation" was ascribed was the blood, and the first man, apparently, to have suggested the idea that blood circulates was Ibn al-Nafiz. He was a physi-cian, born in Baghdad, who died a famous teacher and polymath in Cairo in 1288.”
“Muslim princes from Granada to Isphahan and Agra who had relished fountains were careful lest their flowers and gardens should lose a single drop of the precious liquid.”
“Complex nonvisual sense perceptions gave way only slowly to the enlightened predominance of the eye that we take for granted when we "describe" a person or place.”
“I am building on a foundation established by Gaston Bachelard…The form and matter of our imagining cannot be understood separately because one cannot exist without the other.”
“The imagination is not—as its etymology might suggest-the faculty of forming one's images of reality. It is, rather, the faculty of forming images of the invisible; it is the faculty that "sings reality."”
“But con-templatio is not enough. The outline of the templum cannot settle upon the earth unless it is properly con-sidered, aligned with the stars (sidus). Con-sideratio follows con-templatio. Consideratio aligns the cardo (the axes) of the templum with the city's "star." The cardo was originally a "hinge" with an explicit, concrete, masculine-feminine sym-bolism.”
“Most people today do not dwell in the place where they spend their days and leave no traces in the place where they spend their nights.”
“As a vehicle for metaphors, water is a shifting mirror. What it says reflects the fashions of the age; what it seems to reveal and betray hides the stuff that lies beneath.”
“The first liquid to which "circulation" was ascribed was the blood, and the first man, apparently, to have suggested the idea that blood circulates was Ibn al-Nafiz. He was a physi-cian, born in Baghdad, who died a famous teacher and polymath in Cairo in 1288.”
“Muslim princes from Granada to Isphahan and Agra who had relished fountains were careful lest their flowers and gardens should lose a single drop of the precious liquid.”
“Complex nonvisual sense perceptions gave way only slowly to the enlightened predominance of the eye that we take for granted when we "describe" a person or place.”
“I am building on a foundation established by Gaston Bachelard…The form and matter of our imagining cannot be understood separately because one cannot exist without the other.”
“The imagination is not—as its etymology might suggest-the faculty of forming one's images of reality. It is, rather, the faculty of forming images of the invisible; it is the faculty that "sings reality."”
August 13, 2025
A remarkable book like all Illich’s books.
I took three blogs from the book:
https://richardswsmith.wordpress.com/...
https://richardswsmith.wordpress.com/...
https://richardswsmith.wordpress.com/...
January 28, 2022
A little too short. The footnotes! With Illich, alway read the footnotes.
November 3, 2024
ilich vs la fuente de mundo e
March 13, 2024
Bu kadar kısa olmasına rağmen nasıl bu kadar bilgi doldurulmuş hayret ettim doğrusu. Ivan illich'in ellerinden öperim. Hoş gerçi "okulsuz toplum"u yazabilen birinden bahsediyoruz. Kendime not; başka kitaplarını da okumak istiyorum.
Sanıyorum basımı yok bu kitabın ama umarım olur ve çok daha fazla insana ulaşır.
Yıllar evvel bir podcast serisinde ismini duyduğum bir kitaptı, küçük bir sahafta gezerken (ankara, mesa plaza, dorlion kitabevi) denk geldim ve aldım.
Kitabın sayfa sayısı kadar kaynakça ve dipnot olması dikkatimi çekti.Türkçe basımına özel önsözüne de ayrıca şaşırdım; bir yerinde şöyle yazıyor:)
"...Kitabım şimdi Türkçeye çevriliyor ve yayıncım benden, okuyamayacağım Türkçe baskı için bir önsöz yazmamı istedi..."
Sanıyorum basımı yok bu kitabın ama umarım olur ve çok daha fazla insana ulaşır.
Yıllar evvel bir podcast serisinde ismini duyduğum bir kitaptı, küçük bir sahafta gezerken (ankara, mesa plaza, dorlion kitabevi) denk geldim ve aldım.
Kitabın sayfa sayısı kadar kaynakça ve dipnot olması dikkatimi çekti.Türkçe basımına özel önsözüne de ayrıca şaşırdım; bir yerinde şöyle yazıyor:)
"...Kitabım şimdi Türkçeye çevriliyor ve yayıncım benden, okuyamayacağım Türkçe baskı için bir önsöz yazmamı istedi..."
October 5, 2011
pretty difficult to understand. i will re-read this when i can focus on just this book
February 28, 2010
A good book if you are suffering from insomnia... this will put you to sleep.
Displaying 1 - 12 of 12 reviews