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Green Arrow (1988) (Collected Editions)
Green Arrow (1988-1998) Vol. 8: The Hunt for the Red Dragon
While enjoying a quiet birthday celebration with Dinah Lance, Oliver Queen’s homecoming is interrupted by a strange request from an eccentric billionaire. He asks Green Arrow to find a woman with a unique red dragon tattoo so he can restore his family’s honor and bring peace to his troubled conscience. But this hunt for justice is more than a mere manhunt, as Oliver’s prey is Shado, once his foe and his lover. The quest brings Green Arrow to Japan and into one of the more harrowing pursuits of his career...
Mike Grell’s defining run on the Emerald Archer continues here in GREEN ARROW VOL. 8: THE HUNT FOR THE RED DRAGON. Collects GREEN ARROW #63-72.
Mike Grell’s defining run on the Emerald Archer continues here in GREEN ARROW VOL. 8: THE HUNT FOR THE RED DRAGON. Collects GREEN ARROW #63-72.
238 pages, Kindle Edition
First published May 23, 2017
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123 people want to read
About the author
Mike Grell
712 books82 followersMike Grell (born 1947) is a comic book writer and artist.
Grell studied at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay, the Chicago Academy of Fine Art, and took the Famous Artists School correspondence course in cartooning. His entry into the comics industry was in 1972, as an assistant to Dale Messick on the Brenda Starr comic strip.
In 1973 Grell moved to New York, and began his long relationship with DC Comics. His first assignment at DC was on Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes, a high-profile assignment for an artist with no prior experience illustrating a monthly comic book. Grell says he got that job because he was walking in the editor's door to ask for work, literally, as the previous artist was walking out the door, having just quit. These stories were written by Cary Bates and Jim Shooter. The Bates/Grell/Shooter run on the title is very well-regarded today by Superboy/Legion fans, who consider it one of the high-water marks in the character/team's history. Grell's work on SATLOSH is widely thought to be some of the best beefcake/cheesecake ever committed to comic book pages, and is affectionately referred to as the 'disco Legion' in retrospect by fans of the title.
A writer as well as artist, Grell cemented his status as a fan-favorite with his best-known creation, The Warlord, one of the first sword and sorcery comics, and reportedly the best-selling title published by DC Comics in the late-1970s.
The character first appeared in 1st Issue Special #8 (Nov 1975) and was soon given his own ongoing title (The Warlord #1, Jan/Feb 1976). In this book, Air Force pilot Travis Morgan crash-lands in the prehistoric "hidden world" of Skartaris (a setting highly influenced by Jules Verne's A Journey to the Center of the Earth and Edgar Rice Burroughs' Pellucidar). For years thereafter, Morgan engages in adventures dressed only in a winged helmet, wristbands, boots, and breechclout, and armed with a sword and (years before Dirty Harry handled one) a .44 Auto Mag.
At DC, Grell also worked on titles such as Aquaman, Batman, and the Phantom Stranger, and with writer Dennis O'Neil on the re-launch of the Green Lantern/Green Arrow series in 1976.
[edit] Tarzan
Grell wrote and drew the Tarzan comic strip from July 19, 1981 to February 27, 1983 (except for one strip, February 13, 1983, by Thomas Yeates). These strips were rerun in newspapers in 2004 - 2005.
[edit] First Comics: Jon Sable Freelance and Starslayer
Cover to Jon Sable Freelance #7. Art by Mike Grell.Through the 1980s Grell developed creator-owned titles such Jon Sable Freelance and Starslayer. Jon Sable Freelance was published by the now-defunct First Comics. Starslayer, a space-born science fiction series, started at Pacific Comics, but shifted to First.
The titular character of Jon Sable Freelance was a former Olympic athlete, later a African big-game hunter, who became a mercenary. First appearing with a cover date of June 1983, Jon Sable Freelance was a successful non-super-hero comic book in an era when successful non-super-hero comic books were almost unheard of, and a graphically violent comic sold in mainstream comic book stores in an era when such was as rare. Jon Sable was a precursor to what would eventually be called, by some, "the Dark Age of Comics," when even long-established super-heroes would become increasingly grim and violent.
The character was heavily influenced by Ian Fleming's James Bond novels as well as drawing on pulp fiction crime stories. Also, many of the stories of Sable's hunting exploits in Africa were influenced by Peter Hathaway Capstick's novels. At a convention in the late 1980s, Grell stated that his idea for Sable was "something like a cross between James Bond and Mickey Spillane's Mike Hammer."
Sable was adapted into a short-lived television series and the character's origin tale, "A Storm Over Eden," from the comic book, was expanded and novelized by Grell under the title Sable, which was publ
Grell studied at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay, the Chicago Academy of Fine Art, and took the Famous Artists School correspondence course in cartooning. His entry into the comics industry was in 1972, as an assistant to Dale Messick on the Brenda Starr comic strip.
In 1973 Grell moved to New York, and began his long relationship with DC Comics. His first assignment at DC was on Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes, a high-profile assignment for an artist with no prior experience illustrating a monthly comic book. Grell says he got that job because he was walking in the editor's door to ask for work, literally, as the previous artist was walking out the door, having just quit. These stories were written by Cary Bates and Jim Shooter. The Bates/Grell/Shooter run on the title is very well-regarded today by Superboy/Legion fans, who consider it one of the high-water marks in the character/team's history. Grell's work on SATLOSH is widely thought to be some of the best beefcake/cheesecake ever committed to comic book pages, and is affectionately referred to as the 'disco Legion' in retrospect by fans of the title.
A writer as well as artist, Grell cemented his status as a fan-favorite with his best-known creation, The Warlord, one of the first sword and sorcery comics, and reportedly the best-selling title published by DC Comics in the late-1970s.
The character first appeared in 1st Issue Special #8 (Nov 1975) and was soon given his own ongoing title (The Warlord #1, Jan/Feb 1976). In this book, Air Force pilot Travis Morgan crash-lands in the prehistoric "hidden world" of Skartaris (a setting highly influenced by Jules Verne's A Journey to the Center of the Earth and Edgar Rice Burroughs' Pellucidar). For years thereafter, Morgan engages in adventures dressed only in a winged helmet, wristbands, boots, and breechclout, and armed with a sword and (years before Dirty Harry handled one) a .44 Auto Mag.
At DC, Grell also worked on titles such as Aquaman, Batman, and the Phantom Stranger, and with writer Dennis O'Neil on the re-launch of the Green Lantern/Green Arrow series in 1976.
[edit] Tarzan
Grell wrote and drew the Tarzan comic strip from July 19, 1981 to February 27, 1983 (except for one strip, February 13, 1983, by Thomas Yeates). These strips were rerun in newspapers in 2004 - 2005.
[edit] First Comics: Jon Sable Freelance and Starslayer
Cover to Jon Sable Freelance #7. Art by Mike Grell.Through the 1980s Grell developed creator-owned titles such Jon Sable Freelance and Starslayer. Jon Sable Freelance was published by the now-defunct First Comics. Starslayer, a space-born science fiction series, started at Pacific Comics, but shifted to First.
The titular character of Jon Sable Freelance was a former Olympic athlete, later a African big-game hunter, who became a mercenary. First appearing with a cover date of June 1983, Jon Sable Freelance was a successful non-super-hero comic book in an era when successful non-super-hero comic books were almost unheard of, and a graphically violent comic sold in mainstream comic book stores in an era when such was as rare. Jon Sable was a precursor to what would eventually be called, by some, "the Dark Age of Comics," when even long-established super-heroes would become increasingly grim and violent.
The character was heavily influenced by Ian Fleming's James Bond novels as well as drawing on pulp fiction crime stories. Also, many of the stories of Sable's hunting exploits in Africa were influenced by Peter Hathaway Capstick's novels. At a convention in the late 1980s, Grell stated that his idea for Sable was "something like a cross between James Bond and Mickey Spillane's Mike Hammer."
Sable was adapted into a short-lived television series and the character's origin tale, "A Storm Over Eden," from the comic book, was expanded and novelized by Grell under the title Sable, which was publ
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Displaying 1 - 22 of 22 reviews
February 19, 2018
Green Arrow and Shado get involved in a Most Dangerous Game Scenario. Ollie helps some homeless who become part of the supporting cast. Members of a Pink Floyd like band are being murdered. And then bookended with a panther on the loose and being hunted by bored rich guy. All in all very solid stories with good art by Rich Hoberg and Frank Springer.
September 30, 2024
There's nothing very original about this volume - a rehash of The Most Dangerous Game, a cozy mystery in the music business, a variation on Cat People... - but it's solidly produced with a good team of artists. Perfectly dispensable, but no disgrace.
September 1, 2020
I never much liked Shodo but she was pretty great here.
So this is a few different stories but the main one, first one, hunt for the red dragon is probably the strongest. When Shodo is being hunted Oliver decides to help out of the kindness of his heart. Also because she and him did it before and she has his kid. Anyway this is almost like battle royale in sense but it's Oliver and Shodo must work together to survive. The next few stories focus on bums in the street and Oliver working with them, a murder mystery, and then a wild jungle cat gets loose in the city and Oliver must help capture or kill it.
This was overall enjoyable collection of stories. The best parts are Dinah and Oliver's relationship and how real it feels. In general Grell's work feels very realistic and I appreciate it in a time when everything is superheroish. The art grew on me a lot and now I love it. I think some of it is a bit heavy handed but for the time (early 90's I believe) it's really well told.
A 4 out of 5.
So this is a few different stories but the main one, first one, hunt for the red dragon is probably the strongest. When Shodo is being hunted Oliver decides to help out of the kindness of his heart. Also because she and him did it before and she has his kid. Anyway this is almost like battle royale in sense but it's Oliver and Shodo must work together to survive. The next few stories focus on bums in the street and Oliver working with them, a murder mystery, and then a wild jungle cat gets loose in the city and Oliver must help capture or kill it.
This was overall enjoyable collection of stories. The best parts are Dinah and Oliver's relationship and how real it feels. In general Grell's work feels very realistic and I appreciate it in a time when everything is superheroish. The art grew on me a lot and now I love it. I think some of it is a bit heavy handed but for the time (early 90's I believe) it's really well told.
A 4 out of 5.
July 15, 2021
Green Arrow Vol. 8 The Hunt For The Red Dragon collects issues 63-72 of the series written by Mike Grell with art by Rick Hoberg and Frank Springer.
Olliver Queen is given a mission to find Shado, the Japanese assassin, in order to give her an inheritance, only to be tricked in to finding her so that she can be murdered. Olliver also hunts down a serial killer targeting Seattle's homeless and investigates the murder of multiple members of a 70's rock band.
This series continues to be great. I cannot recommend it enough. Olliver and Shado's relationship in fascinating so it always great to see her return. The other arcs in this series are also extremely entertaining. It's really hard for me to put these volumes down once I start them!
Olliver Queen is given a mission to find Shado, the Japanese assassin, in order to give her an inheritance, only to be tricked in to finding her so that she can be murdered. Olliver also hunts down a serial killer targeting Seattle's homeless and investigates the murder of multiple members of a 70's rock band.
This series continues to be great. I cannot recommend it enough. Olliver and Shado's relationship in fascinating so it always great to see her return. The other arcs in this series are also extremely entertaining. It's really hard for me to put these volumes down once I start them!
October 19, 2019
Hunt for the Red Dragon (#63-66). It's always great when Shado comes back, and this is a fine story that delves into her background. Admittedly, the ending is weak with its somewhat blatantly foreshadowed descent into "The Most Dangerous Game", but hey, we get to see Ollie and Shado together, and we get to see Ollie learn more about what she means to him [4+/5].
Bum Rap (#67-68). Another "social" story, but one that has more depth than most because it uses Marianne as an entry into the world of the homeless (and offers a nice mystery too) [3+/5].
Reunion Tour (#69-70). Another mystery, and I will say that in these mysteries, Grell does a pretty good job of always giving us lots of suspects, but he doesn't really give us the clues we need to solve things. Still, it's fun to see them unfold (and this one is neat for getting to see Ollie and Dinah interact with the world of rock 'n roll) [3/5].
Wild in the Streets (#71-72). Unfortunately, this story feels a bit redundant with its return to the trope of an illegal hunter, but Ollie gets some nice characterization in how he reacts to a wild animal in the streets [3/5]
Bum Rap (#67-68). Another "social" story, but one that has more depth than most because it uses Marianne as an entry into the world of the homeless (and offers a nice mystery too) [3+/5].
Reunion Tour (#69-70). Another mystery, and I will say that in these mysteries, Grell does a pretty good job of always giving us lots of suspects, but he doesn't really give us the clues we need to solve things. Still, it's fun to see them unfold (and this one is neat for getting to see Ollie and Dinah interact with the world of rock 'n roll) [3/5].
Wild in the Streets (#71-72). Unfortunately, this story feels a bit redundant with its return to the trope of an illegal hunter, but Ollie gets some nice characterization in how he reacts to a wild animal in the streets [3/5]
August 3, 2018
If there’s ‘dragon’ in the title, then you can guess what’s going on in this volume. Shado returns, followed by a bevy of shorter stories featuring homeless people, a murderous rock band, and a big cat stalking Seattle. That’s an...interesting assortment, right?
It’s that time again – it’s time for a Shado storyline. At this point she’s been absent from the series for about 2 years, so it’s definitely Shado o’clock. When another shady person propositions Oliver into trying to track her down so that he can rectify an issue of honour that goes back to Shado’s origin, Ollie doesn’t really have much of a choice. Of course, all is not as it seems, and the final issue is a set-up we’ve seen very often before, but with the usual Grell twist on things. We finally get some closure on the Shado/Oliver baby situation, and the chemistry between the two characters remains inescapable; I hope we get to see her again before the end of the series.
And then we’re back to our regularly scheduled two-parters, the first of which attempts to introduce some new supporting characters to Ollie’s world. There’s a bit of irony surrounding the fact that these characters are ignored by everyone around them and it’s taken 60+ issues for Oliver to notice them himself. Aside from that little tidbit, it’s another murder mystery story with a surprisingly good twist at the end that cements at least some of these characters into Oliver’s cast for a while, and reintroduces us to Marianne, who’ll be very important in the following volume.
Next there’s a story featuring a Beatles rip-off band with a fairly obvious conclusion, although the dynamic between Ollie and Dinah keeps this from being entirely predictable. The final two issues are probably the best aside from the Shado ones, as Ollie uses his urban hunter skills to track a panther through the city streets. There’s also possibly a were-panther? So yeah, that one’s pretty fun.
I think it’s clear by this point that we’re losing steam. Grell’s big Shado stories are still easily the best of his run, but the stuff in between is covering old ground and doesn’t seem to have the flair that it had previously. Thankfully, there’s only one more volume left so we should be able to go out on a high.
It’s that time again – it’s time for a Shado storyline. At this point she’s been absent from the series for about 2 years, so it’s definitely Shado o’clock. When another shady person propositions Oliver into trying to track her down so that he can rectify an issue of honour that goes back to Shado’s origin, Ollie doesn’t really have much of a choice. Of course, all is not as it seems, and the final issue is a set-up we’ve seen very often before, but with the usual Grell twist on things. We finally get some closure on the Shado/Oliver baby situation, and the chemistry between the two characters remains inescapable; I hope we get to see her again before the end of the series.
And then we’re back to our regularly scheduled two-parters, the first of which attempts to introduce some new supporting characters to Ollie’s world. There’s a bit of irony surrounding the fact that these characters are ignored by everyone around them and it’s taken 60+ issues for Oliver to notice them himself. Aside from that little tidbit, it’s another murder mystery story with a surprisingly good twist at the end that cements at least some of these characters into Oliver’s cast for a while, and reintroduces us to Marianne, who’ll be very important in the following volume.
Next there’s a story featuring a Beatles rip-off band with a fairly obvious conclusion, although the dynamic between Ollie and Dinah keeps this from being entirely predictable. The final two issues are probably the best aside from the Shado ones, as Ollie uses his urban hunter skills to track a panther through the city streets. There’s also possibly a were-panther? So yeah, that one’s pretty fun.
I think it’s clear by this point that we’re losing steam. Grell’s big Shado stories are still easily the best of his run, but the stuff in between is covering old ground and doesn’t seem to have the flair that it had previously. Thankfully, there’s only one more volume left so we should be able to go out on a high.
February 10, 2025
GA and Shsdo become the Most Dangerous Game; a serial killer stalks Seattle's homeless; someone is killing the old members of a rock band, and a pervy "hunter" imports a mystic jaguar to Seattle for sport.
October 2, 2023
This collection started off as “OK” and got progressively worse.
The story The Hunt for the Red Dragon is the cornerstone to this story, featuring Shado. Whereas her appearances brought on mystery and intrigue in the past, now we are reduced to a meaningless adventure. One where Dinah wasn’t pleased to see Ollie go to, but she didn’t stop him, didn’t ask about it afterwards – there were no repercussions for him to running in the direction of a former (temporary) lover. The whole story felt meaningless with the exception of trying to get Shado into a few issues.
Afterwards, the events of Bum Rap felt forced, while Reunion Tour ended on a high note and might have been the best in the collection. Lastly, Wild in the Streets felt preachy once again, and what was with that panel of the stranger in a full lip lock with Ollie despite no build up leading to that or anything after. Just a random panel of them kissing.
Of the 4 stories, I’d give them respectively 3, 2, 3 and 2 star ratings. Averages out at 2.5. But The Hunt for the Red Dragon is the main story and double length, I’ll give extra emphasis to its score and round the collection up on the 2.5. I almost didn’t. Based on the guidelines I use for rating books, I’m being VERY generous, maybe strictly on sentimental reasons.
The story The Hunt for the Red Dragon is the cornerstone to this story, featuring Shado. Whereas her appearances brought on mystery and intrigue in the past, now we are reduced to a meaningless adventure. One where Dinah wasn’t pleased to see Ollie go to, but she didn’t stop him, didn’t ask about it afterwards – there were no repercussions for him to running in the direction of a former (temporary) lover. The whole story felt meaningless with the exception of trying to get Shado into a few issues.
Afterwards, the events of Bum Rap felt forced, while Reunion Tour ended on a high note and might have been the best in the collection. Lastly, Wild in the Streets felt preachy once again, and what was with that panel of the stranger in a full lip lock with Ollie despite no build up leading to that or anything after. Just a random panel of them kissing.
Of the 4 stories, I’d give them respectively 3, 2, 3 and 2 star ratings. Averages out at 2.5. But The Hunt for the Red Dragon is the main story and double length, I’ll give extra emphasis to its score and round the collection up on the 2.5. I almost didn’t. Based on the guidelines I use for rating books, I’m being VERY generous, maybe strictly on sentimental reasons.
December 14, 2019
60/100.
Este volumen se divide en cuatro historias:
"The Hunt for the Red Dragon 1-4" (80/100): Es la historia que le da nombre a este volumen. Creo que Mike Grell se motiva muchísimo cuando tiene que escribir a Shado, porque mis números favoritos han sido los centrados en ella. Quizás la justificación es lo que menos me convence de esta historia.
"Bum Rap 1-2" (60/100): Esta historia ha estado más flojita, aunque utiliza problemas sociales bastante importantes en la época (y, por desgracia, hoy en día). Tiene un tinte detectivesco, bastante propio de Green Arrow.
"Reunion Tour 1-2" (65/100): Otra historia detectivesca con un grupo parecido a los Beatles como principales víctimas. Es completamente predecible, pero entretiene.
"Wild in the Streets 1-2" (30/100): No me ha convencido nada. No tiene nada de chicha y parece una pseudofantasía erótica. Una pena que haya acabado el volumen con un mal sabor de boca.
Este volumen se divide en cuatro historias:
"The Hunt for the Red Dragon 1-4" (80/100): Es la historia que le da nombre a este volumen. Creo que Mike Grell se motiva muchísimo cuando tiene que escribir a Shado, porque mis números favoritos han sido los centrados en ella. Quizás la justificación es lo que menos me convence de esta historia.
"Bum Rap 1-2" (60/100): Esta historia ha estado más flojita, aunque utiliza problemas sociales bastante importantes en la época (y, por desgracia, hoy en día). Tiene un tinte detectivesco, bastante propio de Green Arrow.
"Reunion Tour 1-2" (65/100): Otra historia detectivesca con un grupo parecido a los Beatles como principales víctimas. Es completamente predecible, pero entretiene.
"Wild in the Streets 1-2" (30/100): No me ha convencido nada. No tiene nada de chicha y parece una pseudofantasía erótica. Una pena que haya acabado el volumen con un mal sabor de boca.
June 15, 2017
Artfully written and drawn. Volume 8 continues in the same style as the previous 7 volumes, with tight written, well developed premises. At times the pages turn by themselves, a melody of characters introduced for 50 to a hundred pages, and then a finale. The stories are drawn out for enough pages if only to accommodate the artistic compositions. Splash pages are common for a title page or momentous action shot.
Rick Hoberg and John Nyberg really excel. Frank Springer has a great two issue story. You can see the experience of these artists as they play. Keyword: play, they are having fun while working in Green Arrow.
Looking forward to reading more volumes. 10 issues are collected in this one.
Rick Hoberg and John Nyberg really excel. Frank Springer has a great two issue story. You can see the experience of these artists as they play. Keyword: play, they are having fun while working in Green Arrow.
Looking forward to reading more volumes. 10 issues are collected in this one.
May 23, 2018
Mike Grell's run on Green Arrow continues to be entertaining. Grell writes mature stories that tackle relevant issues of the day (in this case the early 90's) without resorting to the typical comic book "maturity" of swears and gratuitous sex. Certainly there are scenes that make this a mature readers book but they are not exploitative or at least equal opportunity exploitation as Ollie shows plenty of skin too. The lead story this volume revisits Shado and her son, then Oliver investigates a serial killer of homeless people and finally a tale about a black panther brought from Brazil for a shady private hunter's pleasure and Queen encounters a beautiful and mysterious woman with an interest in the animal. Still very entertaining and better than season 6 of Arrow that's for sure.
Read
November 16, 2019While I’ve enjoyed Grell’s two-issue stories, I think they’ve run their course. Especially this late in his run, which has clearly been building towards some endpoint with the Shado stories, one of which is collected here. I feel like the shorter arcs are just filling space at this point. None of them are bad, mind you, just unmemorable. Grell has already tackled so many social/political issues (to great effect, I will add), but he retreads here with stories about drugs and hunting. The one about the Beatles-esque band is new, though again, it doesn’t stand out. There’s one volume left and I really hope Grell finishes strong. I think his run has been great for the most part and I’d hate to see it end with a whimper.
March 21, 2021
Se nota el inmenso amor que Mike Grell tiene por su creación Shado, ya que las mejores historias son las que la estelarizan. Este es otro volumen fuertemente conectado con Longbow Hunters y se nota no solo en la narrativa, sino en las secuencias. Es un mensaje sobre la cacería y el juego primordial que este representa. El final fue fantástico y hubo algo ahí que me hizo resignar al hecho de que esta serie está fuera de continuidad, y por eso es que no ha tenido que sufrir tratando de forzar eventos y crossovers de otros personajes de DC a menos que Grell lo considere estrictamente necesario como la aparición de Hal Jordan.
October 15, 2017
What more can I say? This run is consistently good. Ollie and Shado get caught up in a "most dangerous game" scenario, Ollie pursues the killers of homeless people and rock stars, and he crosses paths with a mystical panther.
January 10, 2019
Shado is back
The only thing keeping this volume from being five stars is that after the Shado arc, the rest of the volume is a bit mundane. Still, just having Shado back is the best part of this and worth buying it.
The only thing keeping this volume from being five stars is that after the Shado arc, the rest of the volume is a bit mundane. Still, just having Shado back is the best part of this and worth buying it.
March 10, 2020
I was glad to see Shado back. She brings out a different side of Oliver and Grell always manages to make it interesting. I also really liked the rock band arc with clear allusions to the Beatles. This whole volume was a lot of fun.
We discuss my love for this run as well as Green Arrow as a whole for a special episode of the All the Books Show: https://soundcloud.com/allthebooks/ep...
We discuss my love for this run as well as Green Arrow as a whole for a special episode of the All the Books Show: https://soundcloud.com/allthebooks/ep...
December 6, 2020
Regresó Shado (otra vez ×3) y me alegra porque siempre que aparece significa una gran historia. Sin embargo, las otras tres historias en el volumen están interesantes y ponen a Ollie en escenarios diferentes a los habituales pero se sienten un poco monótonas a este punto.
January 8, 2018
The ESSENTIAL Green Arrow run...
January 9, 2019
Mike Grell's run is always best when it explores the dynamic of Oliver and Shado
December 21, 2022
Las dos primeras historias son MUY BUENAS. La de los rockeros mas o menos y la verdad es que la última no tanto. Igual sigue siendo una serie muy buena y me da pena que ya casi la termino de leer.
December 9, 2018
You can find my spoiler-free review here:
https://www.nerdinthenoke.com/2018/12...
https://www.nerdinthenoke.com/2018/12...
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