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These Violent Delights
The Secret History meets Call Me by Your Name in Micah Nemerever's compulsively enjoyable debut novel - a feverishly taut Hitchcockian story about two college students, each with his own troubled past, whose escalating obsession with one another leads to an act of unspeakable violence.
When Paul and Julian meet as university freshmen in early 1970s Pittsburgh, they are immediately drawn to one another. A talented artist, Paul is sensitive and agonizingly insecure, incomprehensible to his working-class family, and desolate with grief over his father's recent death. Paul sees his wealthy, effortlessly charming Julian as his sole intellectual equal - an ally against the conventional world he finds so suffocating. He idolizes his friend for his magnetic confidence. But as charismatic as he can choose to be, Julian also is volatile and capriciously cruel. An admiration isn't the same as trust.
As their friendship spirals into an all-consuming intimacy, Paul is desperate to protect their precarious bond, even as it becomes clear that pressures from the outside world are nothing compared with the brutality they are capable of inflicting on one another. Separation is out of the question. But as their orbit compresses and their grip on one another tightens, they are drawn to an act of irrevocable violence that will force the young men to confront a shattering truth at the core of their relationship.
Exquisitely plotted, unfolding with propulsive ferocity, These Violent Delights is a novel of escalating dread and an excavation of the unsettling depths of human desire.
When Paul and Julian meet as university freshmen in early 1970s Pittsburgh, they are immediately drawn to one another. A talented artist, Paul is sensitive and agonizingly insecure, incomprehensible to his working-class family, and desolate with grief over his father's recent death. Paul sees his wealthy, effortlessly charming Julian as his sole intellectual equal - an ally against the conventional world he finds so suffocating. He idolizes his friend for his magnetic confidence. But as charismatic as he can choose to be, Julian also is volatile and capriciously cruel. An admiration isn't the same as trust.
As their friendship spirals into an all-consuming intimacy, Paul is desperate to protect their precarious bond, even as it becomes clear that pressures from the outside world are nothing compared with the brutality they are capable of inflicting on one another. Separation is out of the question. But as their orbit compresses and their grip on one another tightens, they are drawn to an act of irrevocable violence that will force the young men to confront a shattering truth at the core of their relationship.
Exquisitely plotted, unfolding with propulsive ferocity, These Violent Delights is a novel of escalating dread and an excavation of the unsettling depths of human desire.
460 pages, Hardcover
First published September 15, 2020
3003 people are currently reading
121095 people want to read
About the author
Micah Nemerever
1 book1,162 followersMicah Nemerever was trained as an art historian. He wrote his master’s thesis on queer identity and gender anxiety in the art of the Weimar Republic. He is an avid home chef and amateur historian of queer cinema.
After studying in rural Connecticut and Austin, Texas, he now resides in the Pacific Northwest.
After studying in rural Connecticut and Austin, Texas, he now resides in the Pacific Northwest.
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 6,664 reviews
May 30, 2022
this is a story of: obsession, violence, intellect, passion, and cruelty.
and it consumed me entirely.
and it consumed me entirely.
June 17, 2020
Well, this book absolutely gutted me. I think I'll be having a book hangover for awhile after reading Micah Nemerever's epic
These Violent Delights
. There's absolutely no way that I believe that this is Micah's debut novel, because the prose is so wickedly beautiful. It's being compared as The Secret History meets Call Me By Your Name, and I can definitely see that, but honestly, this book is better than both of them.
These Violent Delights takes place in 1970s Pittsburgh and centers around two main characters, Paul Fleischer and Julian Fromme. Paul and Julian are two freshman students joining college and connect instantaneously during their first interaction in class. They are immediately drawn together, but they couldn't be more different. Paul is a shy, artistic, loner; while Julian is wealthy, charismatic, and cunning. The two immediately form a fast friendship, but little did they know that this friendship would grow more intense each day.
As Paul and Julian's friendship grows, the bond quickly turns to love. Their love is so powerful, so beautiful (and steamy!), but also so dark. Their love grows eventually forms into obsession and violence. The two form an unhealthy, yet captivating romantic bond, that allows the two of them to become stronger in their own way. This bond cannot be broken and anyone who steps in their way will have to suffer the consequences.
Whew, this book is heavy on my heart. Never has a book triggered me with so many emotions. At first, the writing seemed a bit dense and difficult to get through, but then I realized, oh wait Dennis, you're just not as smart as Micah Nemerever so PUSH THROUGH. I eventually got the hang of the intellectual conversations had between the characters and fell right into the trap of this book's atmospheric content. These Violent Delights has the perfect slow building suspense that you just get immersed into the story. I could not put this book down if you tried to pry it from my hands. I just couldn't.
I loved My Violent Delights so much for many reasons, but I think the main reason was that this story is so different than other novels in that it felt like it had its own universe of content. It's hard to describe, but I just feel like a lot of literary fiction works lately have just a straightforward plot, from beginning to end. With My Violent Delights , there's just so many details that encompass everything that you just can't help but take notice. For example, I double checked and reread the ending twice, and I never do that. I read some chapters over and took pictures of quotes (so I can share on publication day) as well. I can picture myself actually rereading this book again, without any doubt. I also loved the romance between Paul and Julian and how it teetered on the balance of pain and pleasure, and of security and controversy. I can probably go on and on about why I loved this book so much, but I think you get the hint. It may be a bit early to state this, but My Violent Delights may very well be my favorite book of 2020.
These Violent Delights takes place in 1970s Pittsburgh and centers around two main characters, Paul Fleischer and Julian Fromme. Paul and Julian are two freshman students joining college and connect instantaneously during their first interaction in class. They are immediately drawn together, but they couldn't be more different. Paul is a shy, artistic, loner; while Julian is wealthy, charismatic, and cunning. The two immediately form a fast friendship, but little did they know that this friendship would grow more intense each day.
As Paul and Julian's friendship grows, the bond quickly turns to love. Their love is so powerful, so beautiful (and steamy!), but also so dark. Their love grows eventually forms into obsession and violence. The two form an unhealthy, yet captivating romantic bond, that allows the two of them to become stronger in their own way. This bond cannot be broken and anyone who steps in their way will have to suffer the consequences.
Whew, this book is heavy on my heart. Never has a book triggered me with so many emotions. At first, the writing seemed a bit dense and difficult to get through, but then I realized, oh wait Dennis, you're just not as smart as Micah Nemerever so PUSH THROUGH. I eventually got the hang of the intellectual conversations had between the characters and fell right into the trap of this book's atmospheric content. These Violent Delights has the perfect slow building suspense that you just get immersed into the story. I could not put this book down if you tried to pry it from my hands. I just couldn't.
I loved My Violent Delights so much for many reasons, but I think the main reason was that this story is so different than other novels in that it felt like it had its own universe of content. It's hard to describe, but I just feel like a lot of literary fiction works lately have just a straightforward plot, from beginning to end. With My Violent Delights , there's just so many details that encompass everything that you just can't help but take notice. For example, I double checked and reread the ending twice, and I never do that. I read some chapters over and took pictures of quotes (so I can share on publication day) as well. I can picture myself actually rereading this book again, without any doubt. I also loved the romance between Paul and Julian and how it teetered on the balance of pain and pleasure, and of security and controversy. I can probably go on and on about why I loved this book so much, but I think you get the hint. It may be a bit early to state this, but My Violent Delights may very well be my favorite book of 2020.
May 19, 2023
All right. I've procrastinated all I can.
The time is come.
I have to do the most dreaded thing I ever do...figure out how I "feel" about something.
Even though I am someone who reviews every book she reads, and even though I read hundreds of books a year, I try to think about feelings as infrequently as possible. I go with a gut rating, I often change it when I actually write the review, and that's it.
But then...once in a while...Nightmare. Chaos. Destruction. A book like this comes along, with an intense and confusing reading experience, and I am unable to rate it.
And then I wait days and weeks and a month if I can swing it so I do not have to do any sort of emotional reflection of any kind. But I've put this off all I can.
This book is weird.
It has some of the dark-academia vibes of books I love, but way more violent and twisty and confusing. The writing is pretty, if sometimes a bit purple for my taste (okay fine you got me I just like using the word "purple" to describe prose too much).
I just kind of like...don't know how I feel about it? But it's a vaguely positive kind of not knowing. So I think...3.5.
The rating of indecisive nice people everywhere. (I'm rebranding to nice.)
These characters are unlikable, but that's the point. The plot, if it exists, winds in fits and starts, but that's the point. It kind of walks the line between literary fiction and thriller, but that's the point. Everything that could take away from it feels intentional, which makes deducting anything seem willfully basic.
What else to say? I'll add this: When I'm reading physical books, I never eat, because I only have two hands and I don't understand the energy distribution that would take. Am I turning pages with one hand and holding my ice cream sandwich in the other? Am I taking bites of salad without turning my eyes to it for optimal forkfuls? How does this work? But on the other hand (buh dum ch), all I do while eating (because I can't be alone with my thoughts) is read on my laptop. And I had a library ebook copy of this book, so boom. Laptop.
But it's such an oddly consuming story, such a disruptively disturbing and gripping and occasionally shockingly violent narrative, that I was often unable to eat. And I lost my appetite if I tried.
Do with that what you will.
Bottom line: Weird! But good? But mostly weird.
----------------
pre-review
what the hell?
review and rating to come
----------------
tbr review
put the word "dark" next to the word "academia" and i am IN
The time is come.
I have to do the most dreaded thing I ever do...figure out how I "feel" about something.
Even though I am someone who reviews every book she reads, and even though I read hundreds of books a year, I try to think about feelings as infrequently as possible. I go with a gut rating, I often change it when I actually write the review, and that's it.
But then...once in a while...Nightmare. Chaos. Destruction. A book like this comes along, with an intense and confusing reading experience, and I am unable to rate it.
And then I wait days and weeks and a month if I can swing it so I do not have to do any sort of emotional reflection of any kind. But I've put this off all I can.
This book is weird.
It has some of the dark-academia vibes of books I love, but way more violent and twisty and confusing. The writing is pretty, if sometimes a bit purple for my taste (okay fine you got me I just like using the word "purple" to describe prose too much).
I just kind of like...don't know how I feel about it? But it's a vaguely positive kind of not knowing. So I think...3.5.
The rating of indecisive nice people everywhere. (I'm rebranding to nice.)
These characters are unlikable, but that's the point. The plot, if it exists, winds in fits and starts, but that's the point. It kind of walks the line between literary fiction and thriller, but that's the point. Everything that could take away from it feels intentional, which makes deducting anything seem willfully basic.
What else to say? I'll add this: When I'm reading physical books, I never eat, because I only have two hands and I don't understand the energy distribution that would take. Am I turning pages with one hand and holding my ice cream sandwich in the other? Am I taking bites of salad without turning my eyes to it for optimal forkfuls? How does this work? But on the other hand (buh dum ch), all I do while eating (because I can't be alone with my thoughts) is read on my laptop. And I had a library ebook copy of this book, so boom. Laptop.
But it's such an oddly consuming story, such a disruptively disturbing and gripping and occasionally shockingly violent narrative, that I was often unable to eat. And I lost my appetite if I tried.
Do with that what you will.
Bottom line: Weird! But good? But mostly weird.
----------------
pre-review
what the hell?
review and rating to come
----------------
tbr review
put the word "dark" next to the word "academia" and i am IN
January 3, 2022
ah how i love reading about terrible people and their obsessions with each other
April 14, 2022
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Heavenly Creatures by way of Patricia Highsmith, plus a sprinkle of Like Minds, and with the kind of teenage morbidity one could find in Hangsaman or Stoker.
Adroit and gripping, These Violent Delights is a superlative debut novel. Being the self-proclaimed connoisseur of academia fiction that I am, I was drawn by the comparisons to The Secret History and I was amazed to discover that unlike other releases (not naming any names) These Violent Delights definitely had some TSH vibes. But whereas most academia books focus on a ‘clique’, Micah Nemerever’s novel is very much centred on the obsessive relationship between two seventeen-year-olds.
If you’ve read or watched anything that revolves around a toxic relationship, you know what to expect from These Violent Delights. The prologue itself reveals to us that all will not be well for these two boys and that at some point will embark on a path of no return.
The narrative takes us back to their first meeting. Paul, our protagonist, is a university freshman in Pittsburgh during the early 1970s. His father has recently committed suicide and his mother has yet to recover. Paul suffers from an almost debilitating insecurity and shows a propensity for virulent self-recriminations. His inward-looking nature brings him no joy, as his mind is often consumed by his many ‘shortcomings’, and those of others. He feels misunderstood by his working-class family, and without his father, his grandfather, a man whose good-natured attempts to connect with Paul inevitably miss the mark, has become his closest male figure. His family fails to accept that Paul isn’t the type to ‘loosen’ up with his peers or have ‘fun’ with some girl.
When a discussion on experimental ethics in class gets Paul hot under the collar, Julian Fromme comes to his defence. On the surface Julian is the antithesis of Paul: he comes from wealth, he’s self-assured, easy-going, and charismatic. Yet, Paul is enthralled by him, especially when he realises that Julian carries within him a darkness not unlike his own. Their mutual understanding and their interest in one another result in an instantaneous connection. They can have erudite talks, challenging each other's stance on subjects related to ethics and morals, and revel in the superiority they feel towards their classmates. Within hours of their meeting, their bond has solidified, becoming something impenetrable to outsiders. It soon becomes apparent that neither of them is in control in their relationship, and things are further complicated when their platonic friendship gives way to a more sexual one.
Their symbiotic bond is of concern to others (to be queer—in both senses—is no walk in the park, especially in the 70s), and attempts are made to separate the two. But Paul and Julian are determined to stay together, and more than once they tell each other that the idea of life without the other would be unbearable.
Even if we suspect that Paul and Julian’s intoxicating liaison will have internecine consequences, we are desperate for a moment of reprieve. But Nemerever’s narrative does not let up, not once. Readers will read with increasing anxiety as Paul and Julian embark on an ‘irreversible’ path, alienating those around them. Dread and anguish became my constant companions while I was reading this novel and I’m glad that I choose to read this when I was off work (I devoured this novel in less than 24h) since These Violent Delights is a riveting edge-of-your-seat kind of read.
A sense of unease pervades this story as even the early stages of Paul and Julian’s relationship are fraught. Julian is almost secretive when it comes to his family, and disapproves of the contempt Paul harbours towards his own mother. Their love for each other often veers into dislike, if not hatred, and they are quite capable of being extremely cruel to each other. Even so, we can see why they have become so entangled together, and why they oppose anyone who threatens to separate them. But as they enable one other, their teenage angst morphs into a more perturbing sort of behaviour. Time and again we are left wondering who, if anyone, is in control.
My summary of this novel won’t do it justice as I fear I’m making it sound like any other ‘dark’ tale of obsessive friendships (in this case a romantic one but still). It is Nemerever’s writing that elevates his story from ‘interesting’ to exhilarating (and downright distressing). He evokes the claustrophobic and oppressive nature of Paul and Julian’s bond, making us feel as if we too are caught in their all-consuming relationship. Nemerever also acutely renders Paul’s discomforts, the intensity of his love for Julian, his self-loathing, and of his conflicting desires (to be known, to be unknowable). He wants his family to understand him, but in those instances when they prove that they may understand him more than he thinks, he does not hear them out.
Similarly to The Secret History, the narrative is very much examining the way we can fail to truly see the people closest to us. Paul’s low self-esteem makes him constantly doubt everyone around, Julian included. He perceives slights where there are none and even seems to find a sort of twisted pleasure (or as Lacan would have it, jouissance) in second-guessing Julian’s feelings towards him or in assuming the worst of others. He projects a preconceived image of Julian onto him (someone who is cruel and deceitful, someone who, unlike Paul himself, can easily adapt or pretend to be normal), and this prevents him from seeing him as he truly is.
The love Paul feels for Julian is almost fanatical, doomed to be destructive. This is the type of relationship that would not be out of place in the work of Magda Szabó (The Door), Joyce Carol Oates (Solstice) or a Barbara Vine novel (The House of Stairs, No Night is Too Long, A Fatal Inversion) or as the subject of a song by Placebo (I’m thinking of ‘Without You I’m Nothing’).
Nemerever’s writing style is exquisite and mature. I was struck by the confidence of his prose (it does not read like a debut novel). Not one word is wasted, every sentence demands your attention (which is difficult when the story has you flipping pages like no tomorrow). Nemerever brings to life every scene and character he writes of, capturing, for example, with painful precision the crushing disquiet Paul feels (24/7), his loneliness (exacerbated by his queerness and intelligence) and his deep-seated insecurity. Nemerever doesn’t always explicitly states what Paul is feeling, or thinking, and the ambiguity this creates reminded me very much of Shirley Jackson, in particular of Hangsaman (a scene towards the end was particularly reminiscent of that novel). Readers will have to fill the gaps or try to read the subtext of certain scenes or exchanges between P and J.
Not only did this book leave me with a huge book hangover but it also left me emotionally exhausted (when I tried picking up other books my mind kept going back to Paul and Julian). Paul is one of the most miserable characters I’ve ever read of. And while he is no angel, I found myself, alongside his family, wanting to help him. But I could also understand him as he strongly reminded me of my own teenage experiences, and of how ‘wretched’ and angsty and alone I felt (woe is me), as well as the fierce, and at times destructive, friendships I formed during those vulnerable years.
In spite of what Paul and Julian do, I cared deeply for them. I wanted to 'shake' them, but I also desperately wanted them to be happy.
I’m sure I could blather on some more, but I will try and stop myself here. Reading These Violent Delights is akin to watching a slow-motion video of a car accident or some other disaster. You know what will happen but you cannot tear your eyes away. Read this at your own peril!
re-read: yes, I am indeed a masochist. I knew that reading this again would hurt but even so, I am once again left devastated by this. The act of reading this book is not dissimilar to riding some diabolical, guts-twisting, puke-inducing rollercoaster where you are anticipating/dreading/exhilarated by the prospect of the encroaching and inevitable drop.
Paul and Julian are very damaged individuals and seeing how they hurt themselves, each other, and the people around them, well it was incredibly upsetting (even more so knowing that their behaviour will just get worse over the course of the narrative). Their relationship is simultaneously impenetrable to us and rendered in painful clarity. Time and again we are left wondering who needs who, who wants who, and the differences between these two desires. Rereading this also allowed me to pay attention to Nemerever's skilful use of foreshadowing.
Anyway in the interim years since first reading this I have come across books/other media that has similar vibes. Nemerever's ability to capture with unsparing and clear-cut precision Paul's discomfort, self-hatred, and alienation brought to mind Brandon Taylor's Real Life and Filthy Animals. The ambiguous nature of his characters and his razor-sharp examination of privilege reminded me of Susie Yang's psychological thriller, White Ivy. The codependent relationship between Paul and Julian instead reminded me of manga like Let Dai, Volume 01 (the angst in that series is wow) or j-dramas like Utsukushii Kare, or books such If We Were Villains, Summer Sons, Belladonna, or Apartment.
Will I ever be brave or foolish enough to read this novel a third time?
(spoilers: she was an idiot so...)
Heavenly Creatures by way of Patricia Highsmith, plus a sprinkle of Like Minds, and with the kind of teenage morbidity one could find in Hangsaman or Stoker.
Adroit and gripping, These Violent Delights is a superlative debut novel. Being the self-proclaimed connoisseur of academia fiction that I am, I was drawn by the comparisons to The Secret History and I was amazed to discover that unlike other releases (not naming any names) These Violent Delights definitely had some TSH vibes. But whereas most academia books focus on a ‘clique’, Micah Nemerever’s novel is very much centred on the obsessive relationship between two seventeen-year-olds.
If you’ve read or watched anything that revolves around a toxic relationship, you know what to expect from These Violent Delights. The prologue itself reveals to us that all will not be well for these two boys and that at some point will embark on a path of no return.
“He couldn’t remember ever being the person he’d decided to become.”
The narrative takes us back to their first meeting. Paul, our protagonist, is a university freshman in Pittsburgh during the early 1970s. His father has recently committed suicide and his mother has yet to recover. Paul suffers from an almost debilitating insecurity and shows a propensity for virulent self-recriminations. His inward-looking nature brings him no joy, as his mind is often consumed by his many ‘shortcomings’, and those of others. He feels misunderstood by his working-class family, and without his father, his grandfather, a man whose good-natured attempts to connect with Paul inevitably miss the mark, has become his closest male figure. His family fails to accept that Paul isn’t the type to ‘loosen’ up with his peers or have ‘fun’ with some girl.
When a discussion on experimental ethics in class gets Paul hot under the collar, Julian Fromme comes to his defence. On the surface Julian is the antithesis of Paul: he comes from wealth, he’s self-assured, easy-going, and charismatic. Yet, Paul is enthralled by him, especially when he realises that Julian carries within him a darkness not unlike his own. Their mutual understanding and their interest in one another result in an instantaneous connection. They can have erudite talks, challenging each other's stance on subjects related to ethics and morals, and revel in the superiority they feel towards their classmates. Within hours of their meeting, their bond has solidified, becoming something impenetrable to outsiders. It soon becomes apparent that neither of them is in control in their relationship, and things are further complicated when their platonic friendship gives way to a more sexual one.
Their symbiotic bond is of concern to others (to be queer—in both senses—is no walk in the park, especially in the 70s), and attempts are made to separate the two. But Paul and Julian are determined to stay together, and more than once they tell each other that the idea of life without the other would be unbearable.
“[H]e wasn’t afraid anymore. After a lifetime of yearning and trying not to yearn, he imagined the relief of surrendering.”
Even if we suspect that Paul and Julian’s intoxicating liaison will have internecine consequences, we are desperate for a moment of reprieve. But Nemerever’s narrative does not let up, not once. Readers will read with increasing anxiety as Paul and Julian embark on an ‘irreversible’ path, alienating those around them. Dread and anguish became my constant companions while I was reading this novel and I’m glad that I choose to read this when I was off work (I devoured this novel in less than 24h) since These Violent Delights is a riveting edge-of-your-seat kind of read.
A sense of unease pervades this story as even the early stages of Paul and Julian’s relationship are fraught. Julian is almost secretive when it comes to his family, and disapproves of the contempt Paul harbours towards his own mother. Their love for each other often veers into dislike, if not hatred, and they are quite capable of being extremely cruel to each other. Even so, we can see why they have become so entangled together, and why they oppose anyone who threatens to separate them. But as they enable one other, their teenage angst morphs into a more perturbing sort of behaviour. Time and again we are left wondering who, if anyone, is in control.
“All they were—all they had ever been—was a pair of sunflowers who each believed the other was the sun.”
My summary of this novel won’t do it justice as I fear I’m making it sound like any other ‘dark’ tale of obsessive friendships (in this case a romantic one but still). It is Nemerever’s writing that elevates his story from ‘interesting’ to exhilarating (and downright distressing). He evokes the claustrophobic and oppressive nature of Paul and Julian’s bond, making us feel as if we too are caught in their all-consuming relationship. Nemerever also acutely renders Paul’s discomforts, the intensity of his love for Julian, his self-loathing, and of his conflicting desires (to be known, to be unknowable). He wants his family to understand him, but in those instances when they prove that they may understand him more than he thinks, he does not hear them out.
“All I want to do is make you happy, and you’re the unhappiest person I’ve ever met.”
Similarly to The Secret History, the narrative is very much examining the way we can fail to truly see the people closest to us. Paul’s low self-esteem makes him constantly doubt everyone around, Julian included. He perceives slights where there are none and even seems to find a sort of twisted pleasure (or as Lacan would have it, jouissance) in second-guessing Julian’s feelings towards him or in assuming the worst of others. He projects a preconceived image of Julian onto him (someone who is cruel and deceitful, someone who, unlike Paul himself, can easily adapt or pretend to be normal), and this prevents him from seeing him as he truly is.
The love Paul feels for Julian is almost fanatical, doomed to be destructive. This is the type of relationship that would not be out of place in the work of Magda Szabó (The Door), Joyce Carol Oates (Solstice) or a Barbara Vine novel (The House of Stairs, No Night is Too Long, A Fatal Inversion) or as the subject of a song by Placebo (I’m thinking of ‘Without You I’m Nothing’).
“They were wild and delirious and invincible, and it was strange that no one else could see it.”
Nemerever’s writing style is exquisite and mature. I was struck by the confidence of his prose (it does not read like a debut novel). Not one word is wasted, every sentence demands your attention (which is difficult when the story has you flipping pages like no tomorrow). Nemerever brings to life every scene and character he writes of, capturing, for example, with painful precision the crushing disquiet Paul feels (24/7), his loneliness (exacerbated by his queerness and intelligence) and his deep-seated insecurity. Nemerever doesn’t always explicitly states what Paul is feeling, or thinking, and the ambiguity this creates reminded me very much of Shirley Jackson, in particular of Hangsaman (a scene towards the end was particularly reminiscent of that novel). Readers will have to fill the gaps or try to read the subtext of certain scenes or exchanges between P and J.
Not only did this book leave me with a huge book hangover but it also left me emotionally exhausted (when I tried picking up other books my mind kept going back to Paul and Julian). Paul is one of the most miserable characters I’ve ever read of. And while he is no angel, I found myself, alongside his family, wanting to help him. But I could also understand him as he strongly reminded me of my own teenage experiences, and of how ‘wretched’ and angsty and alone I felt (woe is me), as well as the fierce, and at times destructive, friendships I formed during those vulnerable years.
In spite of what Paul and Julian do, I cared deeply for them. I wanted to 'shake' them, but I also desperately wanted them to be happy.
I’m sure I could blather on some more, but I will try and stop myself here. Reading These Violent Delights is akin to watching a slow-motion video of a car accident or some other disaster. You know what will happen but you cannot tear your eyes away. Read this at your own peril!
re-read: yes, I am indeed a masochist. I knew that reading this again would hurt but even so, I am once again left devastated by this. The act of reading this book is not dissimilar to riding some diabolical, guts-twisting, puke-inducing rollercoaster where you are anticipating/dreading/exhilarated by the prospect of the encroaching and inevitable drop.
Paul and Julian are very damaged individuals and seeing how they hurt themselves, each other, and the people around them, well it was incredibly upsetting (even more so knowing that their behaviour will just get worse over the course of the narrative). Their relationship is simultaneously impenetrable to us and rendered in painful clarity. Time and again we are left wondering who needs who, who wants who, and the differences between these two desires. Rereading this also allowed me to pay attention to Nemerever's skilful use of foreshadowing.
Anyway in the interim years since first reading this I have come across books/other media that has similar vibes. Nemerever's ability to capture with unsparing and clear-cut precision Paul's discomfort, self-hatred, and alienation brought to mind Brandon Taylor's Real Life and Filthy Animals. The ambiguous nature of his characters and his razor-sharp examination of privilege reminded me of Susie Yang's psychological thriller, White Ivy. The codependent relationship between Paul and Julian instead reminded me of manga like Let Dai, Volume 01 (the angst in that series is wow) or j-dramas like Utsukushii Kare, or books such If We Were Villains, Summer Sons, Belladonna, or Apartment.
Will I ever be brave or foolish enough to read this novel a third time?
(spoilers: she was an idiot so...)
September 25, 2020
[laughs nervously] what the FUCK
November 8, 2020
What the everloving fuck was that??? I loved it
If this was 150 pages shorter I’d give it five stars but alas the middle dragged
If this was 150 pages shorter I’d give it five stars but alas the middle dragged
February 29, 2024
1.5, rounded up.
Although this started out well, by the halfway mark I was so disenchanted, I almost DNF'd it. Like many (most?) debut novels, it suffers from being both overwritten and underdeveloped. A good third of its bloated 463 pages could/should have been jettisoned ... and yet there seemed to be several key scenes that cried out for more information; I never did quite get WHY the two protagonists decide to do a thrill kill - they never even really discuss it, it just suddenly seems to be in the offing.
And the gay angle is so oblique, relegated to a few chaste kisses, that it seems almost superfluous - I'm no voyeur, but if anything really could have used some spicy sex scenes to liven things up a bit, this would be it. [Several nasty comments that have been deleted complained that 18-year olds don't have sex - maybe they don't NOW, but they sure as hell did back in the '70's!! I was there!]
My other major objection is that for some inexplicable reason, this is set in 1973 (whereas the Leopold & Loeb case this is obviously modeled after occurred in 1924) - yet has almost NO period details that would make you believe it is actually taking place then ... I guess because the author wasn't alive then and is apparently too lazy to do any research. And there are some major glaring anachronisms, such as the introduction of cultural 'code switching' about 40 years before it even was defined as such. Since there are a modicum of effective scenes, I'll grudgingly give it 2 stars, but won't be interested in reading more from this author in future.
PS: I am still getting the occasional nasty comment from various people clutching their pearls and calling me a major perv for wanting sex scenes between 'underage' boys. But hey, it's not as if they are 11 - hate to tell ya, but the age of consent in MOST countries, including the US is 18 (or even 16). Heck, in Alabama they'd be considered 'late bloomers' by 16! And interesting that they are old enough to KILL people in these numbnuts' eyes, but not old enough to express love? Look to your own skewed sense of morality - and don't bother posting - you will just be deleted and blocked.
Although this started out well, by the halfway mark I was so disenchanted, I almost DNF'd it. Like many (most?) debut novels, it suffers from being both overwritten and underdeveloped. A good third of its bloated 463 pages could/should have been jettisoned ... and yet there seemed to be several key scenes that cried out for more information; I never did quite get WHY the two protagonists decide to do a thrill kill - they never even really discuss it, it just suddenly seems to be in the offing.
And the gay angle is so oblique, relegated to a few chaste kisses, that it seems almost superfluous - I'm no voyeur, but if anything really could have used some spicy sex scenes to liven things up a bit, this would be it. [Several nasty comments that have been deleted complained that 18-year olds don't have sex - maybe they don't NOW, but they sure as hell did back in the '70's!! I was there!]
My other major objection is that for some inexplicable reason, this is set in 1973 (whereas the Leopold & Loeb case this is obviously modeled after occurred in 1924) - yet has almost NO period details that would make you believe it is actually taking place then ... I guess because the author wasn't alive then and is apparently too lazy to do any research. And there are some major glaring anachronisms, such as the introduction of cultural 'code switching' about 40 years before it even was defined as such. Since there are a modicum of effective scenes, I'll grudgingly give it 2 stars, but won't be interested in reading more from this author in future.
PS: I am still getting the occasional nasty comment from various people clutching their pearls and calling me a major perv for wanting sex scenes between 'underage' boys. But hey, it's not as if they are 11 - hate to tell ya, but the age of consent in MOST countries, including the US is 18 (or even 16). Heck, in Alabama they'd be considered 'late bloomers' by 16! And interesting that they are old enough to KILL people in these numbnuts' eyes, but not old enough to express love? Look to your own skewed sense of morality - and don't bother posting - you will just be deleted and blocked.
January 31, 2021
mom come pick me up i'm scared
June 26, 2024
my spotify playlist because I am completely normal about this book
(alternatively, you could listen to the entirety of The Shark in Your Water album by Flower Face and it’d probably have the same effect)
“ ‘It’s both of us.’ There was a crack of desperation in his voice. ‘It’s always been both of us, it’s mutually assured destruction, that was the entire point. And it didn’t do me a damn bit of good, did it?’ ”
Listen, I’m always down for queer people who are so obsessed with each other that they commit act(s) of violence as some kind of metaphor or something (it always ends well!), and this is so much that in such a deliciously beautiful, heart wrenching way. was literally shaking during parts of this book, it was all I could think about when I had to put it down. I was buzzing. And going through my notes made me see just how much foreshadowing and symbolism was present in this book. I won’t touch on most of it because, you know, spoilers. However, this book is so primarily focused on emotions and connection rather than the plot so I’m hoping that my emotions about how much I adored it get through to y’all and you decide to pick it up. It’s been weeks and every time I think about this book, I want to slam my head against a wall (compliment).
“He would have done anything, anything at all, if it meant Julian would look at him this way a moment longer. The green of his eyes, like white winter light vectored through the crest of a wave; the ravenous grasping for evidence that Paul loved him, and the relief and terror at finding it.”
It’s a college in Pittsburg in the 70s, two boys meet in an intro ethics class and appreciate the responses that each of them have when the teacher asks them questions. Friendship blooms quickly, then moves into obsession and love, then a sprinkle of violence occurs. It’s a tale as old as time, really. Paul and Julian are apt names for a very loosely inspired, gender-bent story of Pauline Parker and Juliet Hulme from the movie, Heavenly Creatures , and therefore the Australian - the Parker Hulme murder case.
“It’s the two of us, contra mundum, looking down into the machinery. All I’ve ever learned to do is survive it, and that just barely. I’ve always admired your ardor in wanting to smash the gears. What a lonely, dreary thing it is to know the truth. What a relief it is that neither of us has to be alone in knowing.”
No matter what, once they join together it is always Paul and Julian against the world. Even when the pain comes from each other, instead of the outside world, it only brings them closer together. Inside their little bubble, they feed on each other—the enabler and the abuser. Through their separate past trauma, the tumultuousness of their relationship, and the reality of being gay in a homophobic world (and most importantly, with homophobic parents), they find solace in each other, drifting on an island alone together. It’s beautiful in a messed-up sort of way.
“I want to go far away, start over, pretend we can wake up from this. To stop hurting you, and to hurt you so badly the scars will never fade. Never to see you again. Never to see anything but you.”
There is such a thin line drawn between love and hate and violence. Maybe both of them view love as an act of violence. Or one sees love as violence and the other sees love as a sacrifice and believes that giving every single thing to another is the only way that they will love you. The sociopath x enabler ship sails on. And there is such a desperation on both sides. A desperation to not find joy in pain. A desperation to bring your love joy even if that means him causing you pain. (I never said this was a good relationship).
“I hope you looked west while I was looking east, and that for a moment you met my eyes without knowing it. I know you never look away, even when your eyes are closed, but I’m never certain you can see what’s really there.”
The real bottom line, my real obsession with this book, is that the only thing that sustains me is queer people finding the most pretentious, violent, and tragic ways to express their love for each other and Paul and Julian tick all those boxes. The writing is exquisite, so desperate and beautiful that I was debating just leaving y’all with some quotes and calling it a day. Alas, you have to read my thoughts instead.
“There was no revering him anymore. Only love remained, and it was a fragile thing that Paul had been desperate not to see. He couldn’t stand to look at the truth, even now. All they were—all they had ever been—was a pair of sunflowers who each believed the other was the sun.”
Having this be in Paul’s point of view effectively warps parts of the story in intriguing ways. There is so much self-hatred that he may not be completely aware of that shapes his views so completely and give the reader a warped view of what’s going on, even if all of the objective facts are correct. There are so many questions I still have about what was really going on with him (repressed? trauma?), but the end result was the same: a failure to understand that anyone could love him and simply just love him and a refusal to believe that anyone would choose him just to have him. There is such a desperation in him, or maybe a belief that love will never be enough, that all it does will cause pain, that there is a physical response of disgust whenever he feels as though he is shown pure love with no intention or game behind it. It makes for a very intriguing read.
“ ‘Just tell me there’s a girl—I won’t get angry. If you two are out there chasing shiksas, you wouldn’t be the first, just tell me so I’ll know at least you’re a normal boy—’ ”
Surprise! There’s homophobia in Pittsburg in the 70s! Bet you didn’t see that one coming. I’d say it’s about what you’d expect from a book set in the 70s, and I’m not going to discuss it for too long because it is quite expected, but I did think it was incredibly important and indicative of both boys to see how their families (both homophobic) reacted to the knowledge (or guess) that their son is gay and how. . . different the reactions and resulting actions were because of that. I want to also touch on the fact that there a brief moments of antisemitism against Paul throughout this book as well, just for people who would like to be warned about it.
“ ‘I kill them [butterflies] because they’re beautiful, and it’s the only way I can keep them.’ ”
There’s a lot of foreshadowing here in a way that is very focused on both Julian’s hobby—chess—and Paul’s hobby—catching butterflies—that feels a bit blatant, but I really do love it especially because of how well they portray the ways that Paul and Julian view the world, especially regarding to love and relationships. The butterflies were one of the most impactful parts of the stories to me as we see how Paul treats beautiful things and the lengths he will go to keep them, his twisted view of love, the lengths he will go to preserve a beautiful thing. The only cover of this book that has butterflies (that I could find) was the Bulgarian cover which is a real shame because there is so much that could’ve been done with this book and butterflies on the cover.
While the butterflies and chess talk foreshadows, Paul’s waxing and waning desire to be seen serves as a bit of reflection of things that have just passed. “Paul wasn’t sure he would ever grow used to it—this precipitous thrill of being seen and known and understood,” when the relationship between him and Julian is first budding and he feels he is both seen and able to show himself with a mask for the first in his life. A little further along, when he is convinced that he is fully known but Julian isn’t, he laments, “For all the pains Paul was taking to hold his unhappiness below the surface, some part of him was grateful to be seen.” As he grows more and more in his relationship with Julian and they learn the more monstrous parts of each other, both still holding tight and loving each other in spite of, or maybe because of, these violent delights, he thinks, “It was a relief and a horror to be known so perfectly.” A part of this seems to be mirroring his thoughts about loving someone, especially a man in 1970s Pittsburg—a relief and a horror. There is never peace in this relationship, but can there be peace? Or will there always be something violent about the way they love where their relationship cannot be anything but tumultuous and violent? Finally, at the end Paul thinks of his sister, “When she met Paul’s eyes, it was as if she were seeing him for the first time. He couldn’t remember why he’d ever wanted to be seen,” and there are so many ways that can be read and they are all probably a little true and more than a little heartbreaking.
“His fear was so absolute that Paul knew it would be there forever. There was something absent in his eyes; Paul couldn’t remember what they had looked like before. He’d never told Julian how beautiful they were, because he had thought it self-evident. He’d believed that of far too many things.”
There was a point in this book where I was worried the book wouldn’t hit hard for me, or I should say that there was a point in this book where the action started and I no longer felt like I was being consumed by the story. It’s a little odd when you think about it. What is assumed to be the climax is revealed fairly early in the book so the reader knows what the story is leading up to the whole book, but I couldn’t help but feel a bit sad when the lens into these two messed up boys’ lives and their messed up relationship was shifted into an actual plot, if even for a little bit. I was dying to keep the focus on Julian and Paul, becoming as obsessed with them as they were with each other, getting frustrated with any distraction. However, the book shifts back to the real “plot” (the relationship between Paul and Julian) and ends in a way that had my mouth hanging open. It’s violent and satisfying in the way that it isn’t violent enough to compare to the rest of their relationship and it isn’t satisfying enough to be able to stop me from obsessing over what happened next. It’s violently ripped out from you and is reduced to a simmer. It’s the perfect ending for this book.
“ ‘It was your fucking delusion that if you just made yourself strong and cold and heartless and everything you aren’t—if you could just make yourself ‘better,’ if you could destroy every part of you that’s worth loving, then you wouldn’t ever have to be afraid again. That was what you needed me to do, and I would have done anything, god help me, I would have done anything for you. I thought you’d finally trust me if you knew I’d kill for you, and it still isn’t enough. I don’t know why I thought it ever could be enough, nothing ever will be. . . I thought I’d finally found a way to love you and have you even notice I was doing it. How sick is that? I’m just as much of a monster as you are.’ ”
5/5
(alternatively, you could listen to the entirety of The Shark in Your Water album by Flower Face and it’d probably have the same effect)
“ ‘It’s both of us.’ There was a crack of desperation in his voice. ‘It’s always been both of us, it’s mutually assured destruction, that was the entire point. And it didn’t do me a damn bit of good, did it?’ ”
Listen, I’m always down for queer people who are so obsessed with each other that they commit act(s) of violence as some kind of metaphor or something (it always ends well!), and this is so much that in such a deliciously beautiful, heart wrenching way. was literally shaking during parts of this book, it was all I could think about when I had to put it down. I was buzzing. And going through my notes made me see just how much foreshadowing and symbolism was present in this book. I won’t touch on most of it because, you know, spoilers. However, this book is so primarily focused on emotions and connection rather than the plot so I’m hoping that my emotions about how much I adored it get through to y’all and you decide to pick it up. It’s been weeks and every time I think about this book, I want to slam my head against a wall (compliment).
“He would have done anything, anything at all, if it meant Julian would look at him this way a moment longer. The green of his eyes, like white winter light vectored through the crest of a wave; the ravenous grasping for evidence that Paul loved him, and the relief and terror at finding it.”
It’s a college in Pittsburg in the 70s, two boys meet in an intro ethics class and appreciate the responses that each of them have when the teacher asks them questions. Friendship blooms quickly, then moves into obsession and love, then a sprinkle of violence occurs. It’s a tale as old as time, really. Paul and Julian are apt names for a very loosely inspired, gender-bent story of Pauline Parker and Juliet Hulme from the movie, Heavenly Creatures , and therefore the Australian - the Parker Hulme murder case.
“It’s the two of us, contra mundum, looking down into the machinery. All I’ve ever learned to do is survive it, and that just barely. I’ve always admired your ardor in wanting to smash the gears. What a lonely, dreary thing it is to know the truth. What a relief it is that neither of us has to be alone in knowing.”
No matter what, once they join together it is always Paul and Julian against the world. Even when the pain comes from each other, instead of the outside world, it only brings them closer together. Inside their little bubble, they feed on each other—the enabler and the abuser. Through their separate past trauma, the tumultuousness of their relationship, and the reality of being gay in a homophobic world (and most importantly, with homophobic parents), they find solace in each other, drifting on an island alone together. It’s beautiful in a messed-up sort of way.
“I want to go far away, start over, pretend we can wake up from this. To stop hurting you, and to hurt you so badly the scars will never fade. Never to see you again. Never to see anything but you.”
There is such a thin line drawn between love and hate and violence. Maybe both of them view love as an act of violence. Or one sees love as violence and the other sees love as a sacrifice and believes that giving every single thing to another is the only way that they will love you. The sociopath x enabler ship sails on. And there is such a desperation on both sides. A desperation to not find joy in pain. A desperation to bring your love joy even if that means him causing you pain. (I never said this was a good relationship).
“I hope you looked west while I was looking east, and that for a moment you met my eyes without knowing it. I know you never look away, even when your eyes are closed, but I’m never certain you can see what’s really there.”
The real bottom line, my real obsession with this book, is that the only thing that sustains me is queer people finding the most pretentious, violent, and tragic ways to express their love for each other and Paul and Julian tick all those boxes. The writing is exquisite, so desperate and beautiful that I was debating just leaving y’all with some quotes and calling it a day. Alas, you have to read my thoughts instead.
“There was no revering him anymore. Only love remained, and it was a fragile thing that Paul had been desperate not to see. He couldn’t stand to look at the truth, even now. All they were—all they had ever been—was a pair of sunflowers who each believed the other was the sun.”
Having this be in Paul’s point of view effectively warps parts of the story in intriguing ways. There is so much self-hatred that he may not be completely aware of that shapes his views so completely and give the reader a warped view of what’s going on, even if all of the objective facts are correct. There are so many questions I still have about what was really going on with him (repressed? trauma?), but the end result was the same: a failure to understand that anyone could love him and simply just love him and a refusal to believe that anyone would choose him just to have him. There is such a desperation in him, or maybe a belief that love will never be enough, that all it does will cause pain, that there is a physical response of disgust whenever he feels as though he is shown pure love with no intention or game behind it. It makes for a very intriguing read.
“ ‘Just tell me there’s a girl—I won’t get angry. If you two are out there chasing shiksas, you wouldn’t be the first, just tell me so I’ll know at least you’re a normal boy—’ ”
Surprise! There’s homophobia in Pittsburg in the 70s! Bet you didn’t see that one coming. I’d say it’s about what you’d expect from a book set in the 70s, and I’m not going to discuss it for too long because it is quite expected, but I did think it was incredibly important and indicative of both boys to see how their families (both homophobic) reacted to the knowledge (or guess) that their son is gay and how. . . different the reactions and resulting actions were because of that. I want to also touch on the fact that there a brief moments of antisemitism against Paul throughout this book as well, just for people who would like to be warned about it.
“ ‘I kill them [butterflies] because they’re beautiful, and it’s the only way I can keep them.’ ”
There’s a lot of foreshadowing here in a way that is very focused on both Julian’s hobby—chess—and Paul’s hobby—catching butterflies—that feels a bit blatant, but I really do love it especially because of how well they portray the ways that Paul and Julian view the world, especially regarding to love and relationships. The butterflies were one of the most impactful parts of the stories to me as we see how Paul treats beautiful things and the lengths he will go to keep them, his twisted view of love, the lengths he will go to preserve a beautiful thing. The only cover of this book that has butterflies (that I could find) was the Bulgarian cover which is a real shame because there is so much that could’ve been done with this book and butterflies on the cover.
While the butterflies and chess talk foreshadows, Paul’s waxing and waning desire to be seen serves as a bit of reflection of things that have just passed. “Paul wasn’t sure he would ever grow used to it—this precipitous thrill of being seen and known and understood,” when the relationship between him and Julian is first budding and he feels he is both seen and able to show himself with a mask for the first in his life. A little further along, when he is convinced that he is fully known but Julian isn’t, he laments, “For all the pains Paul was taking to hold his unhappiness below the surface, some part of him was grateful to be seen.” As he grows more and more in his relationship with Julian and they learn the more monstrous parts of each other, both still holding tight and loving each other in spite of, or maybe because of, these violent delights, he thinks, “It was a relief and a horror to be known so perfectly.” A part of this seems to be mirroring his thoughts about loving someone, especially a man in 1970s Pittsburg—a relief and a horror. There is never peace in this relationship, but can there be peace? Or will there always be something violent about the way they love where their relationship cannot be anything but tumultuous and violent? Finally, at the end Paul thinks of his sister, “When she met Paul’s eyes, it was as if she were seeing him for the first time. He couldn’t remember why he’d ever wanted to be seen,” and there are so many ways that can be read and they are all probably a little true and more than a little heartbreaking.
“His fear was so absolute that Paul knew it would be there forever. There was something absent in his eyes; Paul couldn’t remember what they had looked like before. He’d never told Julian how beautiful they were, because he had thought it self-evident. He’d believed that of far too many things.”
There was a point in this book where I was worried the book wouldn’t hit hard for me, or I should say that there was a point in this book where the action started and I no longer felt like I was being consumed by the story. It’s a little odd when you think about it. What is assumed to be the climax is revealed fairly early in the book so the reader knows what the story is leading up to the whole book, but I couldn’t help but feel a bit sad when the lens into these two messed up boys’ lives and their messed up relationship was shifted into an actual plot, if even for a little bit. I was dying to keep the focus on Julian and Paul, becoming as obsessed with them as they were with each other, getting frustrated with any distraction. However, the book shifts back to the real “plot” (the relationship between Paul and Julian) and ends in a way that had my mouth hanging open. It’s violent and satisfying in the way that it isn’t violent enough to compare to the rest of their relationship and it isn’t satisfying enough to be able to stop me from obsessing over what happened next. It’s violently ripped out from you and is reduced to a simmer. It’s the perfect ending for this book.
“ ‘It was your fucking delusion that if you just made yourself strong and cold and heartless and everything you aren’t—if you could just make yourself ‘better,’ if you could destroy every part of you that’s worth loving, then you wouldn’t ever have to be afraid again. That was what you needed me to do, and I would have done anything, god help me, I would have done anything for you. I thought you’d finally trust me if you knew I’d kill for you, and it still isn’t enough. I don’t know why I thought it ever could be enough, nothing ever will be. . . I thought I’d finally found a way to love you and have you even notice I was doing it. How sick is that? I’m just as much of a monster as you are.’ ”
5/5
on-pause
June 27, 2024Thank you to Liv , who unknowingly put this book on my radar ... I can't wait to dive into this.
╰┈➤˗ˏˋ A feverishly taut Hitchcockian story about two college students, each with his own troubled past, whose escalating obsession with one another leads to an act of unspeakable violence.
ೃ⁀➷♡ Dark Academia
ೃ⁀➷♡ Obsessive Relationship
ೃ⁀➷♡ Toxic Co-dependency
ೃ⁀➷♡ Destructive Affair
ೃ⁀➷♡ MM Romance
ೃ⁀➷♡ Thriller
╰┈➤˗ˏˋ A feverishly taut Hitchcockian story about two college students, each with his own troubled past, whose escalating obsession with one another leads to an act of unspeakable violence.
ೃ⁀➷♡ Dark Academia
ೃ⁀➷♡ Obsessive Relationship
ೃ⁀➷♡ Toxic Co-dependency
ೃ⁀➷♡ Destructive Affair
ೃ⁀➷♡ MM Romance
ೃ⁀➷♡ Thriller
♡ 'All they were—all they had ever been—was a pair of sunflowers who each believed the other was the sun.' ♡
♡ 'What a lonely, dreary thing it is to know the truth. What a relief it is that now neither of us has to be alone in knowing. I hope you looked west while I was looking east, and that for a moment you met my eyes without knowing it. I know you never look away, even when your eyes are closed, but I’m never certain you can see what’s really there.' ♡
August 14, 2020
Wow, for a debut, this is an exceptionally written book but at the same time I didn't really like it. Let me explain.
1970's Pittsburgh
Paul is a quiet, shy, studious kid and on his first day in college he meets the charming, confident, and alluring Julian. The friendship begins easily enough because they both intellectually stimulate one another. Over time this friendship turns into an obsession for both of them. Both wanting to control the other. Both pushing each others boundaries. Both hurting each other in the name of love. Until one act of violence upends everything they thought to be true.
"He had all but pleaded for it, the precision and scalpel-sharp intimacy of Julian's cruelty. He had needed to remember that they were monstrous together, merciless, twins conjoined at the teeth."
I mentioned that this is meticulously written but my goodness is it dense. This is no easy, breezy reading experience. I am not an academic by any means so I found some of their banter quite tedious. And the misery. So much misery. Both of these young men are so wretchedly unhappy and that feeling really seeps into the reader. A sign of good writing, oh yes, but an enjoyable reading experience, not so much. This book made me so depressed. I couldn't get a grasp on their relationship at all. They were both so wicked to one another that I kept wondering why they were attracted to each other in the first place. I kept faltering between caring about them and being horrified by them. And the ending, having read it twice now, and I'm a little confused on what exactly happened. This wasn't a perfect fit for me but mark my words this book is going to earn many accolades and they will be well deserved. 3 stars!
Thank you to Edelweiss and Harper for providing me with a digital ARC in exchange for my honest review.
1970's Pittsburgh
Paul is a quiet, shy, studious kid and on his first day in college he meets the charming, confident, and alluring Julian. The friendship begins easily enough because they both intellectually stimulate one another. Over time this friendship turns into an obsession for both of them. Both wanting to control the other. Both pushing each others boundaries. Both hurting each other in the name of love. Until one act of violence upends everything they thought to be true.
"He had all but pleaded for it, the precision and scalpel-sharp intimacy of Julian's cruelty. He had needed to remember that they were monstrous together, merciless, twins conjoined at the teeth."
I mentioned that this is meticulously written but my goodness is it dense. This is no easy, breezy reading experience. I am not an academic by any means so I found some of their banter quite tedious. And the misery. So much misery. Both of these young men are so wretchedly unhappy and that feeling really seeps into the reader. A sign of good writing, oh yes, but an enjoyable reading experience, not so much. This book made me so depressed. I couldn't get a grasp on their relationship at all. They were both so wicked to one another that I kept wondering why they were attracted to each other in the first place. I kept faltering between caring about them and being horrified by them. And the ending, having read it twice now, and I'm a little confused on what exactly happened. This wasn't a perfect fit for me but mark my words this book is going to earn many accolades and they will be well deserved. 3 stars!
Thank you to Edelweiss and Harper for providing me with a digital ARC in exchange for my honest review.
October 20, 2020
This book really was a fever-dream of obsession and spiralling mentality.
Initially starting this book, it hit a lot of themes you would expect from a story dubbed as "dark academia". The prologue throws you right into some shady business, and so you head into this book knowing that somehow, somewhere, this plot will escalate dramatically. Adding on the immediate display of intelligence via ethical debates in college, the appreciation for art, and the macabre interests of both characters, the dark academia vibes are strong.
As mentioned in the synopsis, this all starts with a relationship between two guys and their increasing obsession with each other. Note that this isn't a good kind of obsession - far from it. This is the intoxicating, delirious kind, that ultimately leads to a huge amount of tension between mentalities. Neither of our main characters can be trusted, their personalities being built through unreliable views and ever-changing narratives. Reading through Paul's perspective, it's never quite clear what the truth of the matter is, every situation being tinted by his pure self-loathing. You wouldn't think an emotion - or a belief - like that would affect a story so considerably, but ohhhh how this book proves otherwise.
It really is a wild ride of a read. It's possible that for some readers, it would be increasingly frustrating with its constant switch in narrative, the never quite knowing if everything is truth or lie. But I couldn't help getting caught up in it, this big overwhelming story feeling close-knit and private for everyone involved. Everything else merged into the background - the monotony of college life, the persistence of family members. All became irrelevant as the focus zoned in on Paul and Julian, reflecting their relationship perfectly. (Please note, this is not a healthy relationship by any means and this book is accompanied by a few content warnings - see end of review).
This entire book feels like a huge manipulation game. Between the characters, how they play the narrative, how it makes you believe certain things right until the last moment - it was fascinating to read. Micah Nemerever does a brilliant job of reflecting the obsessive mindset consuming his characters, pulling you in just as far. Not so much a thriller as a slow spiralling of mental state, this is one which slowly pulls you in and refuses to let go.
CW: abuse, self-harm, suicide, homophobia
Initially starting this book, it hit a lot of themes you would expect from a story dubbed as "dark academia". The prologue throws you right into some shady business, and so you head into this book knowing that somehow, somewhere, this plot will escalate dramatically. Adding on the immediate display of intelligence via ethical debates in college, the appreciation for art, and the macabre interests of both characters, the dark academia vibes are strong.
As mentioned in the synopsis, this all starts with a relationship between two guys and their increasing obsession with each other. Note that this isn't a good kind of obsession - far from it. This is the intoxicating, delirious kind, that ultimately leads to a huge amount of tension between mentalities. Neither of our main characters can be trusted, their personalities being built through unreliable views and ever-changing narratives. Reading through Paul's perspective, it's never quite clear what the truth of the matter is, every situation being tinted by his pure self-loathing. You wouldn't think an emotion - or a belief - like that would affect a story so considerably, but ohhhh how this book proves otherwise.
It really is a wild ride of a read. It's possible that for some readers, it would be increasingly frustrating with its constant switch in narrative, the never quite knowing if everything is truth or lie. But I couldn't help getting caught up in it, this big overwhelming story feeling close-knit and private for everyone involved. Everything else merged into the background - the monotony of college life, the persistence of family members. All became irrelevant as the focus zoned in on Paul and Julian, reflecting their relationship perfectly. (Please note, this is not a healthy relationship by any means and this book is accompanied by a few content warnings - see end of review).
This entire book feels like a huge manipulation game. Between the characters, how they play the narrative, how it makes you believe certain things right until the last moment - it was fascinating to read. Micah Nemerever does a brilliant job of reflecting the obsessive mindset consuming his characters, pulling you in just as far. Not so much a thriller as a slow spiralling of mental state, this is one which slowly pulls you in and refuses to let go.
CW: abuse, self-harm, suicide, homophobia
January 19, 2023
[4.75]
honestly sometimes you just need to fall in love with your best friend and slowly descend into madness all the way to committing murder together, and that’s okay!
honestly sometimes you just need to fall in love with your best friend and slowly descend into madness all the way to committing murder together, and that’s okay!
October 10, 2020
Actual rating: 3.5 (rounded down)
This book—this BOOK!
I’m trying so very hard to parse my emotions into something organized; into something that makes sense, but...
Let me just say: for a debut, this is a soaring achievement. The prose is beautiful and far beyond anything I’ve read since Donna Tartt’s incomparable The Secret History. I know it’s touted as THS meets CMBYN, but I didn’t see much of that, really. It’s more in line with the Leopold and Loeb case (as mentioned), than those literary works.
However, as clever and well-written as it is, a lot of it went right over my head. Much of the syntax is—in my personal opinion—unnecessarily obtuse and vague. Many a time I could not grasp what the hell these characters were trying to say; the meaning behind their words and actions. Nemerever made it difficult for me to decipher the emotions and feelings (if not expressly pointed out to me). So, much of the time I was like, “Is Paul really thinking this?” “Does Julian actually mean that?” “WHAT IS GOING ON?!?” But it was too often too subtle to be a major issue. 200 pages in, and I was altogether confounded by what Paul and Julian’s “relationship” really was. All I kept thinking was, “Do they even LIKE each other?” All they do is hurt one another—always miserable and full of disdain. I couldn’t figure it out. Their toxic codependency was draining. Maybe I’m too dense to understand it (which makes me feel terribly dumb), but... yeah. That lack of clarity in my mind really detached me from the story.
As far as the two main characters go, I found them pretty damn insufferable. I don’t mind unlikable characters, or even characters I don’t connect with, but these two really bogged down the story with page after page after page of emotional and physical destruction. Julian and Paul, too, were experts—it would seem—at reading body language and expressions. Every moment was, “His face said this” “The way he holds his cigarette means this” “You could tell he was hurting inside by how his pores opened and closed” (okay, that last one is obviously not literal)—but honestly, they read everyone’s looks and glances and the way they held themselves... it was too much telling in deciphering every goddamn little thing. I found it way too unbelievable that they could comprehend so thoroughly the subtleties of everyone around them by just an expression or movement.
I wish their relationship contained any semblance of love or truth or romance. There was no warmth here that I could ascertain. Instead, it came off as horribly destructive, emotionally abusive, and exceedingly depressing.
ALSO, I really think this would’ve benefited from a first-person narration rather than third person. Just my own opinion on that.
After all of that, I can’t bring myself to give this a lower rating. I don’t know why, but even through all the misery and hate—and unlikeable characters— I found this book (at times) mesmerizing to behold. There is very rarely seen a queer dark academia novel, and I’m thankful to the author for giving us this gem (if only it’d been just a hair less dreary). There needs to be more LGBTQIA+ lit that checks these boxes.
In the end, well, all that’s left is to talk about the ending. And while personally disappointing and uncomfortably vague (and left me feeling miserable), I also found myself impressed, because it made me think and go back to read earlier passages. I’m still thinking about it hours and hours later. Micah Nemerever is certainly a talent to watch.
PRE-REVIEW
“The Secret History meets Call Me By Your Name”...
Bitch, you had me at “The”!
This book—this BOOK!
I’m trying so very hard to parse my emotions into something organized; into something that makes sense, but...
Let me just say: for a debut, this is a soaring achievement. The prose is beautiful and far beyond anything I’ve read since Donna Tartt’s incomparable The Secret History. I know it’s touted as THS meets CMBYN, but I didn’t see much of that, really. It’s more in line with the Leopold and Loeb case (as mentioned), than those literary works.
However, as clever and well-written as it is, a lot of it went right over my head. Much of the syntax is—in my personal opinion—unnecessarily obtuse and vague. Many a time I could not grasp what the hell these characters were trying to say; the meaning behind their words and actions. Nemerever made it difficult for me to decipher the emotions and feelings (if not expressly pointed out to me). So, much of the time I was like, “Is Paul really thinking this?” “Does Julian actually mean that?” “WHAT IS GOING ON?!?” But it was too often too subtle to be a major issue. 200 pages in, and I was altogether confounded by what Paul and Julian’s “relationship” really was. All I kept thinking was, “Do they even LIKE each other?” All they do is hurt one another—always miserable and full of disdain. I couldn’t figure it out. Their toxic codependency was draining. Maybe I’m too dense to understand it (which makes me feel terribly dumb), but... yeah. That lack of clarity in my mind really detached me from the story.
As far as the two main characters go, I found them pretty damn insufferable. I don’t mind unlikable characters, or even characters I don’t connect with, but these two really bogged down the story with page after page after page of emotional and physical destruction. Julian and Paul, too, were experts—it would seem—at reading body language and expressions. Every moment was, “His face said this” “The way he holds his cigarette means this” “You could tell he was hurting inside by how his pores opened and closed” (okay, that last one is obviously not literal)—but honestly, they read everyone’s looks and glances and the way they held themselves... it was too much telling in deciphering every goddamn little thing. I found it way too unbelievable that they could comprehend so thoroughly the subtleties of everyone around them by just an expression or movement.
I wish their relationship contained any semblance of love or truth or romance. There was no warmth here that I could ascertain. Instead, it came off as horribly destructive, emotionally abusive, and exceedingly depressing.
ALSO, I really think this would’ve benefited from a first-person narration rather than third person. Just my own opinion on that.
After all of that, I can’t bring myself to give this a lower rating. I don’t know why, but even through all the misery and hate—and unlikeable characters— I found this book (at times) mesmerizing to behold. There is very rarely seen a queer dark academia novel, and I’m thankful to the author for giving us this gem (if only it’d been just a hair less dreary). There needs to be more LGBTQIA+ lit that checks these boxes.
In the end, well, all that’s left is to talk about the ending. And while personally disappointing and uncomfortably vague (and left me feeling miserable), I also found myself impressed, because it made me think and go back to read earlier passages. I’m still thinking about it hours and hours later. Micah Nemerever is certainly a talent to watch.
PRE-REVIEW
“The Secret History meets Call Me By Your Name”...
Bitch, you had me at “The”!
May 22, 2021
no context review:
come through homoerotic academic thrillers;
"you wanted crazy? well, you got it now!" BROWN, Tammie;
sober II (melodrama) by Lorde.
come through homoerotic academic thrillers;
"you wanted crazy? well, you got it now!" BROWN, Tammie;
sober II (melodrama) by Lorde.
March 19, 2021
These Violent Delights is a book that in so many words says so little.
Paul is a young prodigy and son of a former police officer, now dead as a result of suicide. In college at the age of 16, he meets Julian, an heir and Nietzsche fan, and they immediately fall in with one another. This friendship becomes romantic and it leads them down a dark path in which murder becomes the name of the game. As Paul strives to figure out if Julian truly loves him, and Julian acts out to guide Paul to his love, they find themselves in quandary and with no clear path out but to fall into each other.
Micah Nemerever writes a compelling story in These Violent Delights, but this story is hidden in an extremely overwritten book. The detail the writing encompasses is overbearing and makes the story seem slow and unmoving when in fact so much is happening. The constant detail, scene building, and character describing creates a book that is so bogged down in its own language that the characters and their stories get left behind. Paul and Julian are compelling characters, if only they weren't hidden behind so many words.
Paul is a young prodigy and son of a former police officer, now dead as a result of suicide. In college at the age of 16, he meets Julian, an heir and Nietzsche fan, and they immediately fall in with one another. This friendship becomes romantic and it leads them down a dark path in which murder becomes the name of the game. As Paul strives to figure out if Julian truly loves him, and Julian acts out to guide Paul to his love, they find themselves in quandary and with no clear path out but to fall into each other.
Micah Nemerever writes a compelling story in These Violent Delights, but this story is hidden in an extremely overwritten book. The detail the writing encompasses is overbearing and makes the story seem slow and unmoving when in fact so much is happening. The constant detail, scene building, and character describing creates a book that is so bogged down in its own language that the characters and their stories get left behind. Paul and Julian are compelling characters, if only they weren't hidden behind so many words.
August 12, 2021
As a reader, the problem with finding that Perfect Book™ is that, talking about why we love it so much makes us feel vulnerable and exposed to everyone around us. I want to tell y'all about all the minor details in this book that made me go absolutely feral, why exactly I had that sort of visceral reaction in the first place — BUT — that feels like too much vulnerable feelings and truth to reveal to strangers on the internet.
UNFORTUNATELY(?!), I also NEED people to pick this book up! Which is hard when I can't even explain WHY I think you need to pick it up! That's the dilemma I have been in ever since I read These Violent Delights by Micah Nemerever last year, and I'm finally gonna try to convince you all to read it.
Now, if you're asking “hey Sai, isn't this book about 2 guys who murder people, why do you keep saying you find it relatable?”
and my response to that question is: it is NONE of your business and I refuse to answer anything further without my lawyer present. thanks very much.
BUT SERIOUSLY, there's just something so visceral and vulnerable about the book and the way it's written. I am just OBSESSED with each and every character. Paul and Julian are like, the only people in the world who understand each other SO WELL, and they hate the rest of the world together. They mutually find others to be bores and find solace and a sense of belonging only with each other.
BUT THEY'RE ALSO *SO* NOT GOOD FOR EACH OTHER. Both of them think the other person doesn't love them back and end up being toxic to each other. When they're not cocooned next to each other in peace, they're flinging barbed insults at each other trying to pick at the chinks in each other's armor. It's this dynamic of self-hate, co-dependency, the desire to murder the whole world for this one person (even if it kills you) but also the urge to murder the other person cause they're driving you insane. It is just perfectly balanced and beautifully done, I still vividly remember it despite having read it TWELVE MONTHS AGO!
And we haven't even spoken about the GORGEOUS WRITING in this book! It is so poetic, and reading it made me feel like I'm being slightly suffocated by this undertow of violence and tension. The pacing and intrigue is perfectly done, I never felt like I was reading a 500-page whopper - in fact, i wish it had been longer JUST SO I can experience more of Micah's beautiful writing. I cannot believe this is someone's DEBUT book, cause like, wow. it's PERFECTION!
There are more things about the book that I want to talk about, like the chess analogies, the excellent messy queer people rep, the ending (GOD, THE ENDING!!!) - honestly, i want to do a comprehensive character study of both Paul and Julian's psyche and answer why they are the way they are. But that's for every reader to interpret on their own.
I love that These Violent Delights features messy queer protagonists. I've come to realize that I only ever want to read about messy queer folks doing messy, morally grey/morally reprehensible things. The publishing industry really needs to get on this train and give us more books like this. And until then, I will be SCREAMING about this delicious, scrumptious, dark and amazingly written book to anyone who would listen. This book is definitely 100% THAT bitch, and you really should not miss out on it. 6/5 stars!
-------------------------------------------------
Pre-Review:
I think i've put off writing this review long enough, this is one SCRUMPTIOUS novel and I need y'all to pick it up as soon as it releases. I will NOT take no for an answer.
REVIEW TO COME
UNFORTUNATELY(?!), I also NEED people to pick this book up! Which is hard when I can't even explain WHY I think you need to pick it up! That's the dilemma I have been in ever since I read These Violent Delights by Micah Nemerever last year, and I'm finally gonna try to convince you all to read it.
Now, if you're asking “hey Sai, isn't this book about 2 guys who murder people, why do you keep saying you find it relatable?”
and my response to that question is: it is NONE of your business and I refuse to answer anything further without my lawyer present. thanks very much.
BUT SERIOUSLY, there's just something so visceral and vulnerable about the book and the way it's written. I am just OBSESSED with each and every character. Paul and Julian are like, the only people in the world who understand each other SO WELL, and they hate the rest of the world together. They mutually find others to be bores and find solace and a sense of belonging only with each other.
BUT THEY'RE ALSO *SO* NOT GOOD FOR EACH OTHER. Both of them think the other person doesn't love them back and end up being toxic to each other. When they're not cocooned next to each other in peace, they're flinging barbed insults at each other trying to pick at the chinks in each other's armor. It's this dynamic of self-hate, co-dependency, the desire to murder the whole world for this one person (even if it kills you) but also the urge to murder the other person cause they're driving you insane. It is just perfectly balanced and beautifully done, I still vividly remember it despite having read it TWELVE MONTHS AGO!
And we haven't even spoken about the GORGEOUS WRITING in this book! It is so poetic, and reading it made me feel like I'm being slightly suffocated by this undertow of violence and tension. The pacing and intrigue is perfectly done, I never felt like I was reading a 500-page whopper - in fact, i wish it had been longer JUST SO I can experience more of Micah's beautiful writing. I cannot believe this is someone's DEBUT book, cause like, wow. it's PERFECTION!
There are more things about the book that I want to talk about, like the chess analogies, the excellent messy queer people rep, the ending (GOD, THE ENDING!!!) - honestly, i want to do a comprehensive character study of both Paul and Julian's psyche and answer why they are the way they are. But that's for every reader to interpret on their own.
I love that These Violent Delights features messy queer protagonists. I've come to realize that I only ever want to read about messy queer folks doing messy, morally grey/morally reprehensible things. The publishing industry really needs to get on this train and give us more books like this. And until then, I will be SCREAMING about this delicious, scrumptious, dark and amazingly written book to anyone who would listen. This book is definitely 100% THAT bitch, and you really should not miss out on it. 6/5 stars!
-------------------------------------------------
Pre-Review:
I think i've put off writing this review long enough, this is one SCRUMPTIOUS novel and I need y'all to pick it up as soon as it releases. I will NOT take no for an answer.
REVIEW TO COME
December 1, 2022
Can’t believe I let this book ruin my life a second time. Review to come.
First read: I feel like I need to reread this to be able to write a review. Might use that as an excuse to reread it rn bc this shit was amazing 😭😭
First read: I feel like I need to reread this to be able to write a review. Might use that as an excuse to reread it rn bc this shit was amazing 😭😭
November 10, 2023
Beautiful things are supposed to hurt.Donna Tartt wrote, Beauty is terror. Whatever we call beautiful, we quiver before it.
And before that, Rainer Maria Rilke said, For beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror which we are barely able to endure, and it amazes us so, because it serenely disdains to destroy us. Micha Nemerever, despite his best efforts, is an unworthy successor to write about the extremes of the human condition.
In this story, we follow Paul and Julian. Two teenagers who talk more like 35-year-olds who peaked in high school and studied philosophy only to find out their lives were meaningless. This book suffers from wrong genre-itis. When it started, it was about Paul's life at his new school where he moved after beating another boy half to death because of his grief. His father recently died by suicide and the book handles that, rather carelessly. At no point do we get the reason why his father decided to take his own life. Ordinarily, people who are suicidal or have suicidal ideation tend to exhibit patterns of behaviour that show that existence is a heavy toll for them. But we never really get to know much about his father except that he was a father, he danced with his wife that night and the next day, locked himself in the shed and put a .38 in his mouth.
At no point do we actually explore the impact of the loss of the patriarch. The most gravitas assigned to it is Paul's sister, Audrey, claiming that he ruined everything. I couldn't even tell you if Paul missed his father. It was more about the family's behaviour and appearance following such a gruesome tragedy, rather than what it meant to them. At first, Paul is disdainful of his mother's grief, even resenting how small she seemed following the tragedy. But then soon after Paul meets Julian. A walking James Dean cosplayer with an inflated sense of self-importance.
One gets the impression that Nemerever read the much superior The Secret History, discovered Henry Winter and thought, I can do that. No, no he couldn't. At least, not successfully. TSH reigned because Tartt shows she doesn't tell. Nemerever is obsessed with handholding.
It was insulting. Furthermore, the book didn't earn the passion it wanted to exert from the reader. After Paul and Julian are a couple, Julian starts behaving reticently, and we get this from... Paul's explanations. Paul explains how this relationship feels almost one-sided. When Julian is rude to him, Paul was almost relieved to feel the sting. It meant Julian saw every weakness in him and still thought he was worth the effort of hurting.
When Julian ignores him, It frightened Paul how readily he yielded to the pain, almost as if he were so used to it that it bored him The book feels like it can be relatable for people who can't help but love the wrong person. The emotionally unavailable man. But Julian isn't emotionally unavailable or reticent. He's not even manipulative. He's just there. He constantly chastises Paul's low self-esteem or unending self-pity. It's aggravating.
Some people call this book "be gay, do crime", and I kept waiting for crime. It was one murder. One. Which is instigated by Julian because Paul gave him the silent treatment after Paul was done getting lashed out at for showing the slightest care. I screamed at the book when this happened.
The only thing that saved this book was its decadent prose. Nemerever has read a few books in his day. He can play with a turn of phrase that left me very pleased. ...petri dish of maladaptive behavior that it is... I mean, look at this, There was something mesmerizing about the way Julian moved—carelessly graceful, as if he weren’t excruciatingly conscious of every atom he displaced.
But that wasn't enough to save this book. Perhaps if it had been a murder mystery, it would have been better. I felt serious tension when the cops got involved. When Paul and Julian were attempting to run away... Such delicious unbridled suspense. But true to form, Nemerever had to shit on it for a finale that's the equivalent of a bat to the head. The ending thinks it's cute but it's just stupid. The two male leads were at best bland. The best part of the book was when they could face consequences for their attempt at murder... for something that didn't particularly make sense.
The book does have some self-awareness, unintended as it may be, It was pretentious and stilted, striving for something it would never reach. You're damn right you ain't reached shit.
November 12, 2023
Edit: I just watched a movie called Heavenly Creatures (1994) that’s almost the same as this book but in lesbian and now I’m in the need of a reread bc then I found out that THESE CHARACTERS ARE NAMED PAUL AND JULIAN AFTER THEM, PAULINE AND JULIET-
“In perfect play, white always wins.”
OH. MY. GOD. I AM SO FUCKING OBSESSED WITH THIS BOOK. WHERE DO I EVEN START TO ANALYZE THIS MASTERPIECE??
I just LOVE how every single sentence hinted to the end. The whole chess thing was a metaphor for their relationship; Julian obsesses throughout the plot with discovering WHERE did the game go wrong, and on the last line of the book, we see that he’s marked the opening move in red. It was doomed since the beginning, just like their relationship.
"Maybe Kaplan's just so good that white is doomed no matter how perfectly Kazlauskas plays"
Julian always played white, paralleling maybe how much he really tried to be better for their relationship. Ofc he gets obsessed, but that’s the point.
He just wanted to love and to be loved, since his parents didn’t care for him. We know that since the beginning when Julian tells Paul that he [Paul] could do anything to him and he would let him, and then he asks Paul to tell him that he loves him, even if it’s just pretend, because he wants to feel like at least somebody does.
He doesn’t let Paul know much about his family, except for how much he despises them, and since we’re seeing everything from Paul’s perspective, he makes us think that Julian is just hiding information deliberately because he doesn’t trust him and uses this to have some power over him or smth, and he starts thinking he’s cruel and so.
But if we analyze everything again, after having read the end, we can see that he just didn’t want to involve him because his family was actually trash (and this loneliness of his is the reason why he gets into this hella toxic and abusive relationship with Paul), unlike Paul’s family. Paul tells us that his family is horrible, that his mother victimizes herself and that they make him go through hell, and at first we believe it, because we’re seeing every thing from HIS perspective. But as we get to know them, we realize that they did nothing to him; they actually loved him ?? His mother was just depressed for her husband’s suicide, and not talking about it was her way of dealing with it ig, but they never did anything… bad to him. They even accepted the fact that he was gay after a while, and treated Julian as if he was part of the family. Julian even tells him (when they’re planning to get out of Pittsburgh to another college) that they shouldn’t move to a far far town since he has a family that’s actually worth visiting.
There are one hundred things I want to say from here.
Since we are seeing the story and relationship through Paul’s perception only, as I mentioned already, at first we get to think that Julian is the the manipulative son of a bitch, because Paul tells us how cruel he is all the time (just like we think his family is bad). But that’s what he TELLS us not what is HAPPENING.
As I said before, Julian’s loneliness made him crave love, but Paul was always distrusting the sincerity of it, telling us it was ‘cruelty’ from his part when he showed him affection. Julian tells him several times “I never lie to you, even if you don’t believe me”and Paul says that, in fact, he doesn’t believe him. This hints at how distorted his perception of everything really was because of his distrust. He’s always saying that Julian was a liar, and cruel, and all, but looking at his actions, he was never any of that.
There is a scene in which they’re buying vinyls and Paul tells us that Julian was being cruel for buying them and not letting him pay anything, and that he THOUGHT he was gonna hit him after saying he didn’t like an album and Julian searched another, but if we look beyond what he is SAYING and we just SEE the scene as it happened, Julian did absolutely nothing.
However we get to think later that both of them are toxic in their own way, but as the plot progresses, we realize that Paul is the only abuser.
We are told in the first pages that he was going to be expelled from school because he hit another boy with a locker and left him needing 15 stitches, but it is not given more importance. Paul says that “he had it coming", but he never tells us what he did to deserve it. We only have his version of that story, and it is enough to assume that it must be true. In the same way, we only have his side of the story to know that Julian was the manipulator who would leave him one day, since he would only want him as long as he could be interesting.
Paul is obsessed with proving that he can be interesting and worth of Julian’s love, but looking at Julian's actions throughout the story, we realize that it is HE who really seems to have something to prove, even though it is mentioned that he had “everything under control" and that he always had a "mask of tranquility." Somewhere near the middle, however, Paul starts telling us that Julian reveals a "weakness." That he tries to appear serene with a false calm that he can't believe he once thought real, and that it was as if he didn't know him, or were seeing him for the first time.
And yet, since the beginning it is clear that he has that weakness when he tells Paul "you could do anything to me and I'd let you."
And, precisely, Paul comes to physically hurt him on multiple occasions because he lets him. The first time when Julian tells him to beat him until he begs him to stop, which Paul does without much questioning. After making him bleed almost to death, he despairs saying that he’s so sorry and that he was only doing what Julian wanted. Julian tells him then that it was what he TOLD him to do, not what he WANTED.
There are so much more things to analyze here.
Before that scene, they had a class on ethics and morals, where they discussed an experiment in which the researchers told Yale students to electrocute some people if they answered wrong, because the point of the experiment was that people don't have real morals, given that if an authority (in this case the scientists) tells them that something is right, they will not think for themselves and will only continue on doing so, following the orders and the limits imposed. So, given that Paul was defending that point, I was surprised by his hypocrisy by not questioning himself if it was really okay to hit Julian and do what he told him, but, of course, everything always pointed to that.
When he stops beating him, Julian takes it upon himself to comfort Paul for beating him, and we're told that “All along it had been Paul who was meant to plead for mercy”. “The real violence was in how gentle Julian was-how near reassurances came to absolution while stopping just short on granting it.” GIRL WHAT??? The book makes us think that that is true because it's what Paul THINKS, but THERE IS NO WAY JULIAN COULD BE THE BAD GUY IN THIS SITUATION, WTF ??? We are seeing the entire book and relationship from the wrong perception of the abuser. Julian forgiving him is just showing how much of a victim he was, because he didn’t want to leave that relationship.
(I could write 50 pages about why you didn’t understand the book if you think that Julian was an abuser).
I mean, of course both of them were obsessed. But in Julian we can see that he was just a stupid kid who wanted to love and to be loved. He accepted everything from Paul because he was the only one who gave him that-at least in some way.
And here is where I get into the murder part, because it shows my point just perfectly fine.
Since I picked this book up thinking it was about murder AND a toxic relationship, I was expecting to see a more detailed description of the murder part. I wanted to see a smart plan, a thrilling hunt, a grotesque description of it.
But as the plot progresses, we realize that it was never intended to be a crime book. The fact that their plan was dumb, the fact that we only see Julian’s reaction (which is clearly fear and regret) and not the murder itself, makes us realize that they were just stupid kids trying to prove something to themselves and each other, as we see from Stepanek’s pov when he says they’re “just kids.” “They’re not angels, they’re just kids.”
Julian getting to kill someone (or at least participating in it), is just to showing how far he would go to keep Paul and show him that he loved him (again, he was the one who had something to prove to the other).
Somewhere near the end, Julian tells him that he is tormented by the crime, and by seeing how much Paul had enjoyed it. He only encouraged him to do it because he thought that would make him happy and prove that he loved him, but it is never enough for him; Paul is still distrusting him and feeling like he has to prove something.
(Going back to the hiking scene, it also gives us a glimpse of this problem, when the police goes to interrogate Julian after Paul mentioned them his name. They have a fight because he didn’t warn Julian, as he had requested. He says that he of course sticked to the script they had of the alibi and all, so he didn’t get arrested, but he’s still mad because he had only asked for onething and it was to be warned. He tells Paul that he never cares about what he wants.)
“All I want is to make you happy, but you’re the unhappiest person I know.”
As sad and disturbing as their ending is, I can’t help but love the perfection of it. Every moment was feeding that ending; every single line was hinting at Paul trying to kill Julian.
I had the feeling it would happen since Paul started to obsess with the perfect painting of a dead person, and to talk about how he could never get enough of Julian, but I was 100% sure it would happen after the hiking scene, because even before Paul beats Julian, they’re hunting butterflies and Paul says: “I kill them because they’re beautiful, and it’s the only way I can keep them”. And that is EXACTLY what he tries to do in that scene.
By the end they had already ‘solved’ their fight, gotten away from the police and decided to start again, without distrust and violence. Everything seems almost fine, except for the eerie feeling you get from the parts narrated as Paul’s diary. He already spoils everything saying that he would make Julian understand, that it’s the only way they can get out and be together. I couldn’t help but cry when Julian still tried to forgive him when he’s trying to kill him.
It is impossible to not feel utterly devastated by everything that happens between them, even if it was a horrible and toxic relationship, for this kind relationships tend to start from something that feels like ‘true love’ (even if it never was), until it becomes toxic, horrible and obsessive, revealing the true nature of it, but you can’t just… leave it because you’re trapped, thinking that ‘love’ is still there. The characters are so well written that they feel like real people, and so you feel every raw emotion of theirs.
As it is told from Paul’s distorted perception, you’re also influenced by his thoughts, so even if I knew they should break up, get professional help and never see each other again, it was impossible to not feel sad, mad and disgusted with everything that got in their way (whether from the outside or from themselves).
Another point I found very interesting is one that the author himself puts in the final note: how passionate can a first same-gender relationship be and how obsessive it could become. Because even if obsessive love has no gender, you can feel like you’ve found your only love in life when you happen to be i your first relationship as a queer person, and that if it ever comes to an end (which you feel impossible and ridiculous) you will never find another one.
At least for myself, I never found it in real life, since my way of living has always been isolated, but I recall being so confident and passionate about a girl I met online being the love of my life at 14, and how devastating it was when it ended.
I MEAN. Of course I’m not saying that that happens with every queer relationship, nor even with the majority, this book is just exploring what it would become in its most extreme scenario. I’m just saying that that passionate feeling is something that indeed happens, and it was so interesting to see depicted in a book in that fictitious extreme scenario.
So yeah, those were my chaotic thoughts on this. Paul’s character is also very complex and interesting, but I’d need to reread it to give him a real analysis.
Former review:
THAT FUCKING LAST LINE OMFG. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO JUST KEEP LIVING AFTER THIS
“In perfect play, white always wins.”
OH. MY. GOD. I AM SO FUCKING OBSESSED WITH THIS BOOK. WHERE DO I EVEN START TO ANALYZE THIS MASTERPIECE??
I just LOVE how every single sentence hinted to the end. The whole chess thing was a metaphor for their relationship; Julian obsesses throughout the plot with discovering WHERE did the game go wrong, and on the last line of the book, we see that he’s marked the opening move in red. It was doomed since the beginning, just like their relationship.
"Maybe Kaplan's just so good that white is doomed no matter how perfectly Kazlauskas plays"
Julian always played white, paralleling maybe how much he really tried to be better for their relationship. Ofc he gets obsessed, but that’s the point.
He just wanted to love and to be loved, since his parents didn’t care for him. We know that since the beginning when Julian tells Paul that he [Paul] could do anything to him and he would let him, and then he asks Paul to tell him that he loves him, even if it’s just pretend, because he wants to feel like at least somebody does.
He doesn’t let Paul know much about his family, except for how much he despises them, and since we’re seeing everything from Paul’s perspective, he makes us think that Julian is just hiding information deliberately because he doesn’t trust him and uses this to have some power over him or smth, and he starts thinking he’s cruel and so.
But if we analyze everything again, after having read the end, we can see that he just didn’t want to involve him because his family was actually trash (and this loneliness of his is the reason why he gets into this hella toxic and abusive relationship with Paul), unlike Paul’s family. Paul tells us that his family is horrible, that his mother victimizes herself and that they make him go through hell, and at first we believe it, because we’re seeing every thing from HIS perspective. But as we get to know them, we realize that they did nothing to him; they actually loved him ?? His mother was just depressed for her husband’s suicide, and not talking about it was her way of dealing with it ig, but they never did anything… bad to him. They even accepted the fact that he was gay after a while, and treated Julian as if he was part of the family. Julian even tells him (when they’re planning to get out of Pittsburgh to another college) that they shouldn’t move to a far far town since he has a family that’s actually worth visiting.
There are one hundred things I want to say from here.
Since we are seeing the story and relationship through Paul’s perception only, as I mentioned already, at first we get to think that Julian is the the manipulative son of a bitch, because Paul tells us how cruel he is all the time (just like we think his family is bad). But that’s what he TELLS us not what is HAPPENING.
As I said before, Julian’s loneliness made him crave love, but Paul was always distrusting the sincerity of it, telling us it was ‘cruelty’ from his part when he showed him affection. Julian tells him several times “I never lie to you, even if you don’t believe me”and Paul says that, in fact, he doesn’t believe him. This hints at how distorted his perception of everything really was because of his distrust. He’s always saying that Julian was a liar, and cruel, and all, but looking at his actions, he was never any of that.
There is a scene in which they’re buying vinyls and Paul tells us that Julian was being cruel for buying them and not letting him pay anything, and that he THOUGHT he was gonna hit him after saying he didn’t like an album and Julian searched another, but if we look beyond what he is SAYING and we just SEE the scene as it happened, Julian did absolutely nothing.
However we get to think later that both of them are toxic in their own way, but as the plot progresses, we realize that Paul is the only abuser.
We are told in the first pages that he was going to be expelled from school because he hit another boy with a locker and left him needing 15 stitches, but it is not given more importance. Paul says that “he had it coming", but he never tells us what he did to deserve it. We only have his version of that story, and it is enough to assume that it must be true. In the same way, we only have his side of the story to know that Julian was the manipulator who would leave him one day, since he would only want him as long as he could be interesting.
Paul is obsessed with proving that he can be interesting and worth of Julian’s love, but looking at Julian's actions throughout the story, we realize that it is HE who really seems to have something to prove, even though it is mentioned that he had “everything under control" and that he always had a "mask of tranquility." Somewhere near the middle, however, Paul starts telling us that Julian reveals a "weakness." That he tries to appear serene with a false calm that he can't believe he once thought real, and that it was as if he didn't know him, or were seeing him for the first time.
And yet, since the beginning it is clear that he has that weakness when he tells Paul "you could do anything to me and I'd let you."
And, precisely, Paul comes to physically hurt him on multiple occasions because he lets him. The first time when Julian tells him to beat him until he begs him to stop, which Paul does without much questioning. After making him bleed almost to death, he despairs saying that he’s so sorry and that he was only doing what Julian wanted. Julian tells him then that it was what he TOLD him to do, not what he WANTED.
There are so much more things to analyze here.
Before that scene, they had a class on ethics and morals, where they discussed an experiment in which the researchers told Yale students to electrocute some people if they answered wrong, because the point of the experiment was that people don't have real morals, given that if an authority (in this case the scientists) tells them that something is right, they will not think for themselves and will only continue on doing so, following the orders and the limits imposed. So, given that Paul was defending that point, I was surprised by his hypocrisy by not questioning himself if it was really okay to hit Julian and do what he told him, but, of course, everything always pointed to that.
When he stops beating him, Julian takes it upon himself to comfort Paul for beating him, and we're told that “All along it had been Paul who was meant to plead for mercy”. “The real violence was in how gentle Julian was-how near reassurances came to absolution while stopping just short on granting it.” GIRL WHAT??? The book makes us think that that is true because it's what Paul THINKS, but THERE IS NO WAY JULIAN COULD BE THE BAD GUY IN THIS SITUATION, WTF ??? We are seeing the entire book and relationship from the wrong perception of the abuser. Julian forgiving him is just showing how much of a victim he was, because he didn’t want to leave that relationship.
(I could write 50 pages about why you didn’t understand the book if you think that Julian was an abuser).
I mean, of course both of them were obsessed. But in Julian we can see that he was just a stupid kid who wanted to love and to be loved. He accepted everything from Paul because he was the only one who gave him that-at least in some way.
And here is where I get into the murder part, because it shows my point just perfectly fine.
Since I picked this book up thinking it was about murder AND a toxic relationship, I was expecting to see a more detailed description of the murder part. I wanted to see a smart plan, a thrilling hunt, a grotesque description of it.
But as the plot progresses, we realize that it was never intended to be a crime book. The fact that their plan was dumb, the fact that we only see Julian’s reaction (which is clearly fear and regret) and not the murder itself, makes us realize that they were just stupid kids trying to prove something to themselves and each other, as we see from Stepanek’s pov when he says they’re “just kids.” “They’re not angels, they’re just kids.”
Julian getting to kill someone (or at least participating in it), is just to showing how far he would go to keep Paul and show him that he loved him (again, he was the one who had something to prove to the other).
Somewhere near the end, Julian tells him that he is tormented by the crime, and by seeing how much Paul had enjoyed it. He only encouraged him to do it because he thought that would make him happy and prove that he loved him, but it is never enough for him; Paul is still distrusting him and feeling like he has to prove something.
(Going back to the hiking scene, it also gives us a glimpse of this problem, when the police goes to interrogate Julian after Paul mentioned them his name. They have a fight because he didn’t warn Julian, as he had requested. He says that he of course sticked to the script they had of the alibi and all, so he didn’t get arrested, but he’s still mad because he had only asked for onething and it was to be warned. He tells Paul that he never cares about what he wants.)
“All I want is to make you happy, but you’re the unhappiest person I know.”
As sad and disturbing as their ending is, I can’t help but love the perfection of it. Every moment was feeding that ending; every single line was hinting at Paul trying to kill Julian.
I had the feeling it would happen since Paul started to obsess with the perfect painting of a dead person, and to talk about how he could never get enough of Julian, but I was 100% sure it would happen after the hiking scene, because even before Paul beats Julian, they’re hunting butterflies and Paul says: “I kill them because they’re beautiful, and it’s the only way I can keep them”. And that is EXACTLY what he tries to do in that scene.
By the end they had already ‘solved’ their fight, gotten away from the police and decided to start again, without distrust and violence. Everything seems almost fine, except for the eerie feeling you get from the parts narrated as Paul’s diary. He already spoils everything saying that he would make Julian understand, that it’s the only way they can get out and be together. I couldn’t help but cry when Julian still tried to forgive him when he’s trying to kill him.
It is impossible to not feel utterly devastated by everything that happens between them, even if it was a horrible and toxic relationship, for this kind relationships tend to start from something that feels like ‘true love’ (even if it never was), until it becomes toxic, horrible and obsessive, revealing the true nature of it, but you can’t just… leave it because you’re trapped, thinking that ‘love’ is still there. The characters are so well written that they feel like real people, and so you feel every raw emotion of theirs.
As it is told from Paul’s distorted perception, you’re also influenced by his thoughts, so even if I knew they should break up, get professional help and never see each other again, it was impossible to not feel sad, mad and disgusted with everything that got in their way (whether from the outside or from themselves).
Another point I found very interesting is one that the author himself puts in the final note: how passionate can a first same-gender relationship be and how obsessive it could become. Because even if obsessive love has no gender, you can feel like you’ve found your only love in life when you happen to be i your first relationship as a queer person, and that if it ever comes to an end (which you feel impossible and ridiculous) you will never find another one.
At least for myself, I never found it in real life, since my way of living has always been isolated, but I recall being so confident and passionate about a girl I met online being the love of my life at 14, and how devastating it was when it ended.
I MEAN. Of course I’m not saying that that happens with every queer relationship, nor even with the majority, this book is just exploring what it would become in its most extreme scenario. I’m just saying that that passionate feeling is something that indeed happens, and it was so interesting to see depicted in a book in that fictitious extreme scenario.
So yeah, those were my chaotic thoughts on this. Paul’s character is also very complex and interesting, but I’d need to reread it to give him a real analysis.
Former review:
THAT FUCKING LAST LINE OMFG. HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO JUST KEEP LIVING AFTER THIS
This entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
June 14, 2023
Sometimes I read a story that haunts me, not necessarily in a negative way. These books draw me in, and I can’t let go. Even when I’m not reading, I still think about them or have this feeling in my chest I can’t describe. These Violent Delights was such a book. It was so incredibly tense and obsessive, and it made me thoughtful and breathless.
Although this story is about two seventeen-year-olds (in the first chapters, Paul is even only sixteen), it’s definitely not an easy read. It’s dark and sad with many philosophical treatises (especially at the beginning) that I didn’t always understand, so I googled a lot. At the same time, nothing really happened. And still, the story got me hooked to the pages.
To be honest, at times, I forgot that Paul and Julian were only seventeen, they felt older to me. I wanted to know them so badly, to understand why they did what they did. Sometimes they felt distant, and I wanted to shake them up, and at other times I wanted to hold and hug them tight. Julian was the most distant one for me, but the more I read, the more I understood his struggles behind the endless masks he wore. It seemed as Paul had never peace in his mind, but that also applied to Julian, even if it was less visible.
I made a lot of notes while reading, and as I described above, even if I wasn’t reading, the story was with me all the time. And even though I didn’t always understand everything and detested some parts of the story, there was so much going on in my body and mind when I was reading and after I had been reading. It’s a story to never forget; that ending! Holy ...! An incredible debut by a genius author.
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I made a lot of notes while reading, and as I described above, even if I wasn’t reading, the story was with me all the time. And even though I didn’t always understand everything and detested some parts of the story, there was so much going on in my body and mind when I was reading and after I had been reading. It’s a story to never forget; that ending! Holy ...! An incredible debut by a genius author.
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October 1, 2024
so dull i almost didn’t finish it. the main problem this book suffers is that it’s a lot of telling, not showing. from the moment the two protagonists meet, we are told that these boys have an obsessive bond which eventually turns into a site of darkness and violence, but we never really watch this supposed relationship grow. i wasn’t sold on their ‘connection’ at all, it all felt flat.
as a whole the novel feels very fake deep, and it doesn’t have the substance to be as intelligent as it’s trying to be. it’s a long book, but those pages aren’t used to their full potential; it’s all just very undeveloped.
i know not every ‘dark academia’ book is trying to be like ‘the secret history’ but……you’ll never be her.
as a whole the novel feels very fake deep, and it doesn’t have the substance to be as intelligent as it’s trying to be. it’s a long book, but those pages aren’t used to their full potential; it’s all just very undeveloped.
i know not every ‘dark academia’ book is trying to be like ‘the secret history’ but……you’ll never be her.
February 3, 2024
Reading this book reminded me why Dark Academia is the best genre. This was thrilling, addicting and horrifying.
It also had two of the most unlikable characters as the protagonists. Which made this even more interesting.
It also had two of the most unlikable characters as the protagonists. Which made this even more interesting.
March 12, 2025
*4.5
still absolutely in love with this story and these characters and nemerevers exploration of loneliness and all consuming queer relationships. let gay people be evil again!!!
still absolutely in love with this story and these characters and nemerevers exploration of loneliness and all consuming queer relationships. let gay people be evil again!!!
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March 29, 2025chcę zacząć od tego, że moja recenzja nie będzie recenzją samej książki, tylko polskiego przekładu. "these violent delights" pierwszy raz przeczytałem w oryginale trzy lata temu i od tamtej pory jest moją ulubioną książką, o której nie przestaje gadać do znudzenia wszystkich moich znajomych. jeśli dłużej obserwujecie mnie na goodreads na pewno widzieliście jak wiele razy czytałem ją ponownie.
chyba nie muszę mówić jak bardzo czekałem na te wydanie. z książkami tego wydawnictwa miałem same dobre spotkania, okładka jest cudowna, a tłumaczka ma na swoim koncie genialny przekład "serii niefortunnych zdarzeń" i "małego życia". co mogło pójść nie tak?
już w czwartym rozdziale napotkałem pierwszy zgrzyt — wydawało mi się, że w dialogu brakuje zdania, więc musiałem sięgnąć po oryginał, żeby się upewnić. i miałem rację, zdania brakowało. kilka akapitów później brakowało kolejnego. dwie, może trzy takie sytuacje mogą się zdarzyć, prawda? tylko że wycięte fragmenty pojawiały się później notorycznie. to problem, którego najbardziej nie jestem w stanie pojąć — po co pomijać tyle zdań, często istotnych? dlaczego taka decyzja została podjęta? bo nie mogę o tym myśleć inaczej niż jako decyzji, to było z byt częste na nazwanie przypadkiem.
wiele fragmentów było też zwyczajnie źle przetłumaczone. "only son" zostało "jedynakiem", mimo że siostry paula są wspomniane akapit wcześniej. "how do you stay sane, pablo?" zmieniło się w "jak się mówi 'zdrowy psychicznie', pablo?", a audrey "[who] was lingering in the living-room doorway" nagle "w drzwiach salonu prasowała bieliznę" (mój osobisty faworyt). takich potknięć było zdecydowanie za dużo, większość z nich chyba udało mi się zebrać w wątku na twitterze. możecie zajrzeć, jeśli jesteście ciekawi. https://x.com/starlesswdz/status/1904...
poza tym zdania wielokrotnie brzmią 'pokracznie', jak kalka z angielskiego, a w innych przypadkach są uproszczone i nie oddają poetyckości pióra nemerevera. cały przekład wygląda jakby nie przeszedł żadnej korekty czy redakcji przed pójściem do druku. powiedzieć, że jestem zawiedziony, byłoby trafnym eufemizmem.
ta historia stoi na szczegółach i języku jakiego autor używa. jak napisałem wcześniej podczas czytania książki — zdaniach, które mogą wydawać się nieistotne, ale zostawią piekący ślad jak zacięcie papierem i przypomną o sobie w najbardziej niespodziewanym momencie. każdy dialog między głównymi bohaterami ma znaczenie. każdy wewnętrzny monolog paula ma znaczenia. pominięte zdania pozostawiają te książkę w formie niekompletnej, a każde błędne tłumaczenie zostawia ryzyko nieporozumienia czytelnika z tekstem. i przykro mi, że polski czytelnik jest zmuszony poznać tę historię w takiej formie.
kiedy piszę te recenzję problem jest zgłoszony do wydawnictwa, ale nadal nie uzyskałem jednoznacznej odpowiedzi, czy coś z tym zrobią. zachęcam do sięgnięcia po wersję angielską, jeśli macie taką możliwość.
chyba nie muszę mówić jak bardzo czekałem na te wydanie. z książkami tego wydawnictwa miałem same dobre spotkania, okładka jest cudowna, a tłumaczka ma na swoim koncie genialny przekład "serii niefortunnych zdarzeń" i "małego życia". co mogło pójść nie tak?
już w czwartym rozdziale napotkałem pierwszy zgrzyt — wydawało mi się, że w dialogu brakuje zdania, więc musiałem sięgnąć po oryginał, żeby się upewnić. i miałem rację, zdania brakowało. kilka akapitów później brakowało kolejnego. dwie, może trzy takie sytuacje mogą się zdarzyć, prawda? tylko że wycięte fragmenty pojawiały się później notorycznie. to problem, którego najbardziej nie jestem w stanie pojąć — po co pomijać tyle zdań, często istotnych? dlaczego taka decyzja została podjęta? bo nie mogę o tym myśleć inaczej niż jako decyzji, to było z byt częste na nazwanie przypadkiem.
wiele fragmentów było też zwyczajnie źle przetłumaczone. "only son" zostało "jedynakiem", mimo że siostry paula są wspomniane akapit wcześniej. "how do you stay sane, pablo?" zmieniło się w "jak się mówi 'zdrowy psychicznie', pablo?", a audrey "[who] was lingering in the living-room doorway" nagle "w drzwiach salonu prasowała bieliznę" (mój osobisty faworyt). takich potknięć było zdecydowanie za dużo, większość z nich chyba udało mi się zebrać w wątku na twitterze. możecie zajrzeć, jeśli jesteście ciekawi. https://x.com/starlesswdz/status/1904...
poza tym zdania wielokrotnie brzmią 'pokracznie', jak kalka z angielskiego, a w innych przypadkach są uproszczone i nie oddają poetyckości pióra nemerevera. cały przekład wygląda jakby nie przeszedł żadnej korekty czy redakcji przed pójściem do druku. powiedzieć, że jestem zawiedziony, byłoby trafnym eufemizmem.
ta historia stoi na szczegółach i języku jakiego autor używa. jak napisałem wcześniej podczas czytania książki — zdaniach, które mogą wydawać się nieistotne, ale zostawią piekący ślad jak zacięcie papierem i przypomną o sobie w najbardziej niespodziewanym momencie. każdy dialog między głównymi bohaterami ma znaczenie. każdy wewnętrzny monolog paula ma znaczenia. pominięte zdania pozostawiają te książkę w formie niekompletnej, a każde błędne tłumaczenie zostawia ryzyko nieporozumienia czytelnika z tekstem. i przykro mi, że polski czytelnik jest zmuszony poznać tę historię w takiej formie.
kiedy piszę te recenzję problem jest zgłoszony do wydawnictwa, ale nadal nie uzyskałem jednoznacznej odpowiedzi, czy coś z tym zrobią. zachęcam do sięgnięcia po wersję angielską, jeśli macie taką możliwość.
May 17, 2022
This simply wasn’t for me. In the beginning I really liked this book, but the more I read, the more I felt detached from the story and the characters. In theory, it was an interesting story, but while I read it, I just simply could not connect.
May 17, 2022
2.5 stars
I keep thinking books about obsessive, romantic friendships gone wrong are my thing, but then I actually read them and feel like the GIF of that lady squinting at all the math equations.
Part of the issue is that I need the author to really sell me the intense connection. I need them to not only convince me these characters want to crawl inside each other's skin but also give me the reason why they want to, why they have chosen each other. So often though, I am left unconvinced of the bond. I did not feel like Paul and Julian's relationship felt natural or well-developed, and I was a bit confused about their attraction to one another.
Beyond that, in books with pretentious, young characters who feel that they alone bear the burden of truly understanding life, I usually want there to be some sort of outside voice that exposes how silly and dangerous that is. While I don't think this book is saying Paul and Julian are so right and so smart, the reader exists only inside Paul's exhausting mind where he does think that he and Julian are so right and so smart, and to me that is just so tedious. Reading 450 pages of smug pretentiousness that is rarely checked or called out for being delusional is irritating.
There are a lot of moments where the characters understood something (or thought they understood something) that I didn't. I always felt a disconnect with the story because the way Paul's feelings and thoughts are communicated feels both vague and overly complicated. I never fully understood how he felt and why he felt that way. His emotions were always hidden behind the novel's wordiness, so I never felt like I could crack him. The characters' thoughts and feelings are trapped behind behind a veil of pretentiousness, and I wished that we had gotten to see behind that veil. Paul's violence and anger feel unexplored, and I'm a bit confused whether he is supposed to read as sympathetic in any way. The author's note makes me think maybe he is, but the actual story makes me feel otherwise. Paul doesn't read like a lonely and misunderstood character pushed to the brink to me. He reads like a terrible person who needs serious help, and I'm not sure if that's what Nemerever was aiming for.
There's an interesting and well-written story in here somewhere. I just feel that These Violent Delights is so bogged down with wordiness and overwrought descriptions that add little to the novel as a whole. Then, after all that wordiness, the book ends rather abruptly with a lot of things still left unexplored, which left me feeling confused as to what I was supposed to take from it. Sure, Paul and Julian are fucked up and do fucked up things to one another, but why am I supposed to care? What am I supposed to have learned?
I keep thinking books about obsessive, romantic friendships gone wrong are my thing, but then I actually read them and feel like the GIF of that lady squinting at all the math equations.
Part of the issue is that I need the author to really sell me the intense connection. I need them to not only convince me these characters want to crawl inside each other's skin but also give me the reason why they want to, why they have chosen each other. So often though, I am left unconvinced of the bond. I did not feel like Paul and Julian's relationship felt natural or well-developed, and I was a bit confused about their attraction to one another.
Beyond that, in books with pretentious, young characters who feel that they alone bear the burden of truly understanding life, I usually want there to be some sort of outside voice that exposes how silly and dangerous that is. While I don't think this book is saying Paul and Julian are so right and so smart, the reader exists only inside Paul's exhausting mind where he does think that he and Julian are so right and so smart, and to me that is just so tedious. Reading 450 pages of smug pretentiousness that is rarely checked or called out for being delusional is irritating.
There are a lot of moments where the characters understood something (or thought they understood something) that I didn't. I always felt a disconnect with the story because the way Paul's feelings and thoughts are communicated feels both vague and overly complicated. I never fully understood how he felt and why he felt that way. His emotions were always hidden behind the novel's wordiness, so I never felt like I could crack him. The characters' thoughts and feelings are trapped behind behind a veil of pretentiousness, and I wished that we had gotten to see behind that veil. Paul's violence and anger feel unexplored, and I'm a bit confused whether he is supposed to read as sympathetic in any way. The author's note makes me think maybe he is, but the actual story makes me feel otherwise. Paul doesn't read like a lonely and misunderstood character pushed to the brink to me. He reads like a terrible person who needs serious help, and I'm not sure if that's what Nemerever was aiming for.
There's an interesting and well-written story in here somewhere. I just feel that These Violent Delights is so bogged down with wordiness and overwrought descriptions that add little to the novel as a whole. Then, after all that wordiness, the book ends rather abruptly with a lot of things still left unexplored, which left me feeling confused as to what I was supposed to take from it. Sure, Paul and Julian are fucked up and do fucked up things to one another, but why am I supposed to care? What am I supposed to have learned?
October 9, 2020
Audio 5 +++ Stars
Story....4.25 Stars
This was sooooo messed up and exhausting it took me days to finish. But the writing and execution made it hard for me to dnf.
Story....4.25 Stars
This was sooooo messed up and exhausting it took me days to finish. But the writing and execution made it hard for me to dnf.
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