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When Pigs Fly!: Training Success with Impossible Dogs
When Pigs Fly!: Training Success with Impossible Dogs
- GenresDogsNonfictionAnimals
194 pages, Kindle Edition
First published June 22, 2007
439 people are currently reading
730 people want to read
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 55 reviews
February 7, 2009
very good book for average AKC person who doesn't have a deep understanding of clicker training, but not what I'd call a "sophisticated" book.
I like the upbeat attitude that all dogs can do it. However, I am always a bit offended when a book assumes that all dogs have food drive (she goes so far as to suggest that a dog that lacks usable food drive in training has a medical problem).
As a trainer, my number one, absolute biggest problem is the 10% of dogs that like food just fine, but it doesn't motivate them when something more interesting is going on. Who cares if the dog works for food as a game; I want a dog that can get to the ring. This book assumes that any "normal" dog wants the food more than interesting alternatives (smells on the ground, another dog, you name it), which my experience tells me is often wrong.
I like the upbeat attitude that all dogs can do it. However, I am always a bit offended when a book assumes that all dogs have food drive (she goes so far as to suggest that a dog that lacks usable food drive in training has a medical problem).
As a trainer, my number one, absolute biggest problem is the 10% of dogs that like food just fine, but it doesn't motivate them when something more interesting is going on. Who cares if the dog works for food as a game; I want a dog that can get to the ring. This book assumes that any "normal" dog wants the food more than interesting alternatives (smells on the ground, another dog, you name it), which my experience tells me is often wrong.
March 2, 2022
I read this many years ago, but found myself re-reading it because it’s been so long. This is an excellent book on R+ training, with a focus on motivating the difficult-to-motivate breeds. (I never own those, for a reason.) It’s one of the rare dog training books that makes me think the author gets people just as well as she gets dogs, which is a great quality in a dog trainer. Unfortunately most dog trainers don’t seem to have that quality, but I think this person does. Super solid book, would recommend to anyone looking to understand dog motivation better or to anyone just looking for a good dog training book that’s not tedious to read.
March 21, 2008
While I don't QUITE have a Pigs Fly dog- I do have a dog breed that is not typically seen in obedience or agility- a French Bulldog.
I like this book because it recommends doing shaping (with a clicker) for "pigs fly" dogs FIRST before luring behaviors. I think this is excellent advice- we made leaps and bounds in our training after playing 'the box' game after several weeks of luring behaviors. You are teaching your dog to think- and to look to you for their 'reward'.
I laughed a lot while reading this book as well- which was a bonus
I like this book because it recommends doing shaping (with a clicker) for "pigs fly" dogs FIRST before luring behaviors. I think this is excellent advice- we made leaps and bounds in our training after playing 'the box' game after several weeks of luring behaviors. You are teaching your dog to think- and to look to you for their 'reward'.
I laughed a lot while reading this book as well- which was a bonus
October 13, 2008
The pigs are occasionally achieving lift-off.
Slow but sure progress.
Slow but sure progress.
June 8, 2019
Oh my god. This was so good and funny and useful, and the last chapter made me cry!!! I loved the way she refused the language of “good” and “bad” dogs and instead used “biddable” and “non-biddable.” Biddable dog breeds (like retrievers or labs) are easier to train because they’ve been bred specifically to be hyper-attuned to humans and to crave human approval so much that they will tamp down their other very natural dog instincts to get it. Non-biddable dog breeds (like terriers) were bred to be independent thinkers who could work alone and solve problems without having a human nearby to tell them what to do. There’s nothing wrong with either kind of dog—we’ve just carefully selected and shaped them to do different kinds of tasks. So you have to learn to work with the kind of intelligence your dog has rather than measuring them against some kind of imagined ideal dog. Instead of forcing them to do things they have zero interest in, you have to be attuned to what they DO enjoy, and you have to get creative about designing training tasks that foster a sense of intrinsic motivation. (DOG TRAINING AND TEACHING HAVE SO MUCH IN COMMON.)
I also loved the idea that humans are drawn to different dog breeds because there’s something in that personality that appeals to us or resonates with us. Like, I grew up with golden retrievers and while I love them, I have never found them to be especially interesting animals (sorry Maggie, Tessa, Mardy, and Chase!). But I LOVE terrier mix dogs, Pomeranians, or any small dog that has a LOT of personality and a mind of its own. I love that my own dog is a wily, quick-thinking creature who is always on the lookout for ways to outsmart me. I love that sometimes he totally indifferent to me because he’s busy actively pursuing his many and varied interests. It makes me laugh that he has his own agenda, his own hobbies, his own life. I wouldn’t have much fun hanging out with or teaching people who hung onto my every word and never challenged me on anything. I also wouldn’t learn anything from them! So I value having a dog who expects me to earn his respect and trust, and who doesn’t just do what I say because I say it. It makes our bond feel more like a bond between two independent but equal creatures, rather than a hierarchy where I’m the ~authority figure~. And we train together successfully, it also just feels more satisfying. Like teaching a good class or designing a good activity, it‘s a v fulfilling creative and intellectual challenge. (I mean ok, sometimes I wish he’d stop chewing on the rug JUST BECAUSE I SAID SO, but yknow.)
Anyway, I loved this and found it so useful as part of my ongoing quest to better understand dogs!! (I also have dreams of someday writing some kind of article analyzing all of these different schools of dog training!! I dream of writing a cultural history of dog pedagogy, lol.)
I also loved the idea that humans are drawn to different dog breeds because there’s something in that personality that appeals to us or resonates with us. Like, I grew up with golden retrievers and while I love them, I have never found them to be especially interesting animals (sorry Maggie, Tessa, Mardy, and Chase!). But I LOVE terrier mix dogs, Pomeranians, or any small dog that has a LOT of personality and a mind of its own. I love that my own dog is a wily, quick-thinking creature who is always on the lookout for ways to outsmart me. I love that sometimes he totally indifferent to me because he’s busy actively pursuing his many and varied interests. It makes me laugh that he has his own agenda, his own hobbies, his own life. I wouldn’t have much fun hanging out with or teaching people who hung onto my every word and never challenged me on anything. I also wouldn’t learn anything from them! So I value having a dog who expects me to earn his respect and trust, and who doesn’t just do what I say because I say it. It makes our bond feel more like a bond between two independent but equal creatures, rather than a hierarchy where I’m the ~authority figure~. And we train together successfully, it also just feels more satisfying. Like teaching a good class or designing a good activity, it‘s a v fulfilling creative and intellectual challenge. (I mean ok, sometimes I wish he’d stop chewing on the rug JUST BECAUSE I SAID SO, but yknow.)
Anyway, I loved this and found it so useful as part of my ongoing quest to better understand dogs!! (I also have dreams of someday writing some kind of article analyzing all of these different schools of dog training!! I dream of writing a cultural history of dog pedagogy, lol.)
November 23, 2009
When it comes to dogs, there are no "good" or "bad" behaviors. There are only "behaviors" and the dog is born thinking they are equal.
And also this:
Two behaviors cannot occupy the same space at the same time.
If your dog is doing a behavior of which you approve, he cannot be doing a behavior of which you disapprove.
I will be quoting these statements in all my dog/handler training classes. In fact, I wrote them on the board this week. Thank you Jane.
And also this:
Two behaviors cannot occupy the same space at the same time.
If your dog is doing a behavior of which you approve, he cannot be doing a behavior of which you disapprove.
I will be quoting these statements in all my dog/handler training classes. In fact, I wrote them on the board this week. Thank you Jane.
February 14, 2021
Bought and read this book as our puppy will be arriving in our home in about seven weeks. On the advice of our breeder we’ve already watched Jane’s classes on Madcap University and felt this book would be a good resource to have on hand for training.
March 31, 2025
mein holy grail des positiven Hundetrainings💖
July 31, 2014
This book is a gem, the only problem: her training tips did not work for my terrier. Still loved the book, and it is well written, funny, and a comfort for those of us with impossible dogs.
But I am clearly no dog trainer and no more terriers for me, one is enough. For a lifetime.
But I am clearly no dog trainer and no more terriers for me, one is enough. For a lifetime.
February 4, 2018
For owners who struggle with breeds who aren't easy going and are not thought (stress on thought) to be very easily teachable, this is a great book. Killion explains shaping in detail and gets a lot of behaviors across without luring or using any kind of aversive. It's also written in a way that people new to force free/science based training immediately get the hang of it, which I really like. If I were reading this and technical term after technical term was thrown at me, I'd give up simply for that reason.
The more I read this book, though, the more I find little things that bug me (I'm still giving it 4 stars because if I was an owner without any or much knowledge in science based training, this book would be hugely helpful and I wouldn't be interested in some of the things trainers consider a little iffy).
The first thing is that she says no food or you will ever be as valuable as a behavior that makes the click go off. This makes no sense. If food can't make a dog focus (or whatever is most reinforcing for the dog), then waiting for a click, which literally predicts the food you just said he does not want, is even less attractive.
Secondly, expecting a dog's eyes to be glued to you at all times on a normal, loose leash walk, is neither ideal (sniffing things is important enrichment) nor very probable.
Next, the 'look at me exercises' she describes in the yard aren't what I'd ever recommend to a client. "You will be shocked at how quickly just going out into the yard becomes a cue for him to stare at you." This is great until you want the dog to go out and pee and all she does is stare at you. I'd most definitely practice this in a different environment.
Which leads me to "If your dog’s only reinforcer is food, he assumes he is wrong if he is not getting a treat." which made me laugh. There is such a thing as phasing out treats and putting dogs on variable reinforcement schedules, which she even talks about. Additionally, the toys she says we should use instead are, as reinforcers, used exactly like treats so there is virtually no difference if you apply this principle and the dog is simply going to look for the next round of tug.
Lastly, recommending to kiss your dog is just...off. As a force free trainer she should know not to recommend this to owners who may not have any idea that dogs usually do not like any invasion into their bubble and may express their opinion on this very clearly.
Still, as far as training books for novice trainers go, this is in my top 5.
The more I read this book, though, the more I find little things that bug me (I'm still giving it 4 stars because if I was an owner without any or much knowledge in science based training, this book would be hugely helpful and I wouldn't be interested in some of the things trainers consider a little iffy).
The first thing is that she says no food or you will ever be as valuable as a behavior that makes the click go off. This makes no sense. If food can't make a dog focus (or whatever is most reinforcing for the dog), then waiting for a click, which literally predicts the food you just said he does not want, is even less attractive.
Secondly, expecting a dog's eyes to be glued to you at all times on a normal, loose leash walk, is neither ideal (sniffing things is important enrichment) nor very probable.
Next, the 'look at me exercises' she describes in the yard aren't what I'd ever recommend to a client. "You will be shocked at how quickly just going out into the yard becomes a cue for him to stare at you." This is great until you want the dog to go out and pee and all she does is stare at you. I'd most definitely practice this in a different environment.
Which leads me to "If your dog’s only reinforcer is food, he assumes he is wrong if he is not getting a treat." which made me laugh. There is such a thing as phasing out treats and putting dogs on variable reinforcement schedules, which she even talks about. Additionally, the toys she says we should use instead are, as reinforcers, used exactly like treats so there is virtually no difference if you apply this principle and the dog is simply going to look for the next round of tug.
Lastly, recommending to kiss your dog is just...off. As a force free trainer she should know not to recommend this to owners who may not have any idea that dogs usually do not like any invasion into their bubble and may express their opinion on this very clearly.
Still, as far as training books for novice trainers go, this is in my top 5.
January 1, 2021
Primary Takeaways:
"When it comes to dogs, there are no "good" or "bad" behaviors. There are only "behaviors" and the dog is born thinking they are all equal."
"If your dog is doing a behavior of which you approve, he cannot be doing a behavior of which you disapprove."
I picked this book up several years ago and it (unfortunately) sat on my shelf for far too long. Although I don't need it as much now as I did back then, I still thought I'd read through it to see what it offers people like me.
Pigs Fly dogs are not your biddable retrievers, not by a long shot. They are unique and challenging and this book celebrates all their quirks and idiosyncracies. If your dog's first response to any request you make is "What's in it for me?," congratulations, you have a Pigs Fly dog!
I most definitely have a "Pigs Fly" kinda dog. My HazelNut, she's a handful. Even now, at 13, she keeps me on my toes. 4 years ago, she was incorrigible. The most common refrains I heard from those around me for years have been "You're a saint!" or "Get rid of her!" It is so validating to read a book written by a lover of Pigs Fly dogs directed to people like me, madly crazy about their "bad" dog yet also pulling their hair out with the endless frustrations.
When Pigs Fly is a well laid out, well thought out guide to training the most difficult of dogs. Some of the information is intuitive to those who carefully consider dog behavior and training. I have actually come to many of these training methods on my own due to research I've done or previous training classes I've taken. However, I have not come across such a concise summary about how these dogs think and why they are considered "difficult" before. Killion's primary methodology is clicker training which is heavily encouraged throughout the book. What is so absolutely fabulous about this book is that it focuses on HOW these dogs think and uses that to shape training. The book is broken into several sections, including a background of the psychology of Pigs Fly dogs; basics like gaining attention, clicker usage, and basic skills; dealing with problem behaviors specific to many Pigs Fly dogs; and a comprehensive resource section with links to additional reading material, websites, supplies, etc.
This is not a quick fix manual. These dogs, while trainable, are not easy. There is no magic pill that will replace the effort required to shape these guys into wonderful companions. But When Pigs Fly will set you well on your way to achieving harmony with your own wild 'Nut!
"When it comes to dogs, there are no "good" or "bad" behaviors. There are only "behaviors" and the dog is born thinking they are all equal."
"If your dog is doing a behavior of which you approve, he cannot be doing a behavior of which you disapprove."
I picked this book up several years ago and it (unfortunately) sat on my shelf for far too long. Although I don't need it as much now as I did back then, I still thought I'd read through it to see what it offers people like me.
Pigs Fly dogs are not your biddable retrievers, not by a long shot. They are unique and challenging and this book celebrates all their quirks and idiosyncracies. If your dog's first response to any request you make is "What's in it for me?," congratulations, you have a Pigs Fly dog!
I most definitely have a "Pigs Fly" kinda dog. My HazelNut, she's a handful. Even now, at 13, she keeps me on my toes. 4 years ago, she was incorrigible. The most common refrains I heard from those around me for years have been "You're a saint!" or "Get rid of her!" It is so validating to read a book written by a lover of Pigs Fly dogs directed to people like me, madly crazy about their "bad" dog yet also pulling their hair out with the endless frustrations.
When Pigs Fly is a well laid out, well thought out guide to training the most difficult of dogs. Some of the information is intuitive to those who carefully consider dog behavior and training. I have actually come to many of these training methods on my own due to research I've done or previous training classes I've taken. However, I have not come across such a concise summary about how these dogs think and why they are considered "difficult" before. Killion's primary methodology is clicker training which is heavily encouraged throughout the book. What is so absolutely fabulous about this book is that it focuses on HOW these dogs think and uses that to shape training. The book is broken into several sections, including a background of the psychology of Pigs Fly dogs; basics like gaining attention, clicker usage, and basic skills; dealing with problem behaviors specific to many Pigs Fly dogs; and a comprehensive resource section with links to additional reading material, websites, supplies, etc.
This is not a quick fix manual. These dogs, while trainable, are not easy. There is no magic pill that will replace the effort required to shape these guys into wonderful companions. But When Pigs Fly will set you well on your way to achieving harmony with your own wild 'Nut!
May 13, 2025
I think this is a really solid book for someone new-ish to dog training and sort of early in their learning journey. This is probably not what you’re looking for if you’re seeking more advanced techniques or if you already have a pretty significant knowledge base. I think I was expecting to have more ah-ha moments since it’s been recommended to me so many times over the years, but there wasn’t much in here that I didn’t already know (take breed traits into account, shaping and ABC basics, importance of relationship building, etc). That’s not a book problem though, which is why I still think it deserves 4 stars. It’s just probably best suited as maybe someone’s first or second dog training book, and likely won’t be as useful to someone who has read many others or taken several classes. There are some really nice guides on breaking down basic behaviors, as well as a section on ABCs and appropriate replacements for unwanted behaviors—these would be really helpful for someone who is getting started. That being said I do feel like the title is overselling it a bit. I feel like this is more of a general guide for training any dog, and not as much a great guide for more challenging ones. I think “impossible” dogs can come in a lot of forms, and I don’t feel like this book addressed much for those super soft, sensitive dogs, nor was there much focus (IMO) on emotions vs simply behaviors. There’s also a lot of NILIF stuff which doesn’t resonate with me personally.
September 24, 2023
The positive tone and hope for working with hard to train/less biddable dogs makes it worth it if you are struggling with a dog like that. It has a few things it gets wrong - there really are dogs that aren't treat motivated (the implication here is that all dogs are, the owner is keeping them fat or doing something wrong if they aren't) and that is one of the hardest to train for me, so it's weird how it is handled here. There are also some good exercises here, but there are much better books now for that that lay things out step by step (this was written in 2007, so not fault of the author, books on training have just come a long way).
March 22, 2019
We got a puppy last week! And I want to train her well. So I picked up this book, which came well-recommended.
I think it has a lot to offer. I will say I don’t have a “pigs fly” dog — I have a Cavalier and they tend to be pretty easy. But the pattern of training could work well for her too. And I love the purely-positive methodology. I’m not certain it’s reasonable for every owner — but I think it’s a solid direction for any handler.
If you are looking for a dog training book, I can recommend this one.
4.0 stars
I think it has a lot to offer. I will say I don’t have a “pigs fly” dog — I have a Cavalier and they tend to be pretty easy. But the pattern of training could work well for her too. And I love the purely-positive methodology. I’m not certain it’s reasonable for every owner — but I think it’s a solid direction for any handler.
If you are looking for a dog training book, I can recommend this one.
4.0 stars
March 13, 2021
Really good! Although I didn't get much out of it to add to my arsenal (I'm a balanced dog trainer), pet owners and people who don't have the same experience I do will get a ton out of it! Pair this book with 'How Dogs Learn' by Mary Burch and Jon Bailey and you'll learn quite a bit! I love that Jane Killion spoke about the truth on dominance! So many pet owners aren't going to know that kind of information so that impressed me! Highly suggest!
July 11, 2021
Good Book for the Stubborn dog
Good book for the stubborn dog. I have a mixed canaan breed, which is basically no breed. Pina (my dog) is very stubborn and does not have the tendency to listen. I learned a bunch in this book.
The only problem with this book is that it is basic, no advanced stuff. Another thing is tackling the reactivity with other dogs.
In essence, it is a good book to read. Recommended.
Good book for the stubborn dog. I have a mixed canaan breed, which is basically no breed. Pina (my dog) is very stubborn and does not have the tendency to listen. I learned a bunch in this book.
The only problem with this book is that it is basic, no advanced stuff. Another thing is tackling the reactivity with other dogs.
In essence, it is a good book to read. Recommended.
September 11, 2024
It’s a solid book about positive reinforcement. Nothing ground breaking for people who already know the basics of shaping, but it’s not bad for a beginner.
There are several useful lists in the book that consolidate information that you might already know, but it’s nice to have in one place. My favorite is the list of “naked games:”
-jumping for a hand touch
-play bowing
-shoving the dog in the chest
And more.
There are several useful lists in the book that consolidate information that you might already know, but it’s nice to have in one place. My favorite is the list of “naked games:”
-jumping for a hand touch
-play bowing
-shoving the dog in the chest
And more.
August 31, 2019
i've been meaning to read this book for --- a decade! lol i'm glad that i finally got around to it (thanks library! ) i don't always love the author's tone (but that's a personal thing) the advice in the book is solid, and positive and all in all a great book for anyone who loves dogs (and dog breeds) who are challenging, smart and not the most biddable (**raises hand**)
September 24, 2019
Perhaps a bit simplistic at times (such as the leave your dog in the room by himself if he starts barking and you don’t want to reinforce) but that’s understandable for someone who has been raising and training dogs for so long. I love Jane’s methods and her sense of humor. See her Puppy Culture training for more on raising dogs.
August 9, 2024
I was given a copy as an audiobook by Dogwise publishing as early access to review. I would rate this a 4, as I found the resources incredibly helpful. However with the audiobook being a new release of this book, and the choice to keep a line where the R slur is used in reference to aversive training didn't sit well with me, as someone who deals with mental health struggles.
November 28, 2025
Pigs can fly!
Good book with suggestions in getting "difficult" dogs to want to do things! Spoiler, you've got to take the time and do the work. While we should get better about rewarding just because, nothing in life is truly free. Work for it and we can help us and our dogs be happy.
Good book with suggestions in getting "difficult" dogs to want to do things! Spoiler, you've got to take the time and do the work. While we should get better about rewarding just because, nothing in life is truly free. Work for it and we can help us and our dogs be happy.
Read
March 6, 2021I won't rate this until I actually have a dog to try it on, but this method makes a ton of sense and offers a training system that can be used to shape literally any behavior in your dog. I'll definitely be turning to this frequently when our puppy comes home!
September 13, 2021
This is a book I may return to. The advice was excellent, but I took our dog to training classes and we’re giving that our full effort. I may return to the click training ideas at some point if the click training seems like a better option.
March 9, 2025
This is the book / company to go to for dog training! I wish the book was a bit more brief, cutting the extra commentary and focused more on just the how to. Overall though great practices & well written - helpful that it can be supported by their online videos / visuals / additional resources
July 31, 2017
Skvěle jsem se bavila a i se něco nového dozvěděla.
August 7, 2017
Very helpfull
July 23, 2018
Nothing really new that I learned from here. The information is a collection from many many dog training books/online sites/etc that I have visited in trying to better control my lab-beagle mix.
June 10, 2019
Not that much new for me in this book but still an interesting read.
August 8, 2019
I really loved this book and the games and techniques Jane Killion introduces. A must read for Bull Terrier owners, or sporting breed owners.
December 20, 2020
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