Alcibiades Ii

by Plato

This book has been considered important throughout the human history, and so that this work is never forgotten Alpha Editions has made efforts in its preservation by republishing this book in a modern format for the present and future generations. This whole book has been re-formatted, re-typed and re-designed. These books are not made of scanned copies of their original work, and hence the text is clear and readable.

Genres: Philosophy, Classics, Nonfiction, Ancient

24 pages, Paperback

First published January 1, 301

About the author

Plato (Greek: Πλάτων), born Aristocles (c. 427 – 348 BC), was an ancient Greek philosopher of the Classical period who is considered a foundational thinker in Western philosophy and an innovator of the written dialogue and dialectic forms. He raised problems for what became all the major areas of both theoretical philosophy and practical philosophy, and was the founder of the Platonic Academy, a philosophical school in Athens where Plato taught the doctrines that would later become known as Platonism.
Plato's most famous contribution is the theory of forms (or ideas), which has been interpreted as advancing a solution to what is now known as the problem of universals. He was decisively influenced by the pre-Socratic thinkers Pythagoras, Heraclitus, and Parmenides, although much of what is known about them is derived from Plato himself.
Along with his teacher Socrates, and Aristotle, his student, Plato is a central figure in the history of philosophy. Plato's entire body of work is believed to have survived intact for over 2,400 years—unlike that of nearly all of his contemporaries. Although their popularity has fluctuated, they have consistently been read and studied through the ages. Through Neoplatonism, he also greatly influenced both Christian and Islamic philosophy. In modern times, Alfred North Whitehead famously said: "the safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato."

Reviews

[Czarny Pies · Rating 2 out of 5]

There appears to be strong consensus that Plato is not the author of this short dialogue. Even in a modern translation, the reader familiar with Plato notices that the style and manner of reasoning is somewhat different from the canonical dialogues.
Nonetheless, the conclusions of the Socrates of this work seem to be consistent with those of the Platonic Socrates. Socrates meets Alcibiades who is on his way to pray. He warns Alcibiades that prayer is potentially harmful if the person praying has not acquired wisdom. Two dangers exist. The Gods might grant a wish that will be harmful rather than beneficial to the unwise petitioner or they might be angered by a blasphemous prayer causing them to not grant what is asked for.
I enjoyed reading Alcibiades II primarily because I have a certain fascination for texts that are controversial. A reader wishing to understand Platonism better is more likely to find this dialogue to have been a waste of time.

[Regina Andreassen]

The First Alcibiades is far superior. Alcibiades II is not very well written and neither is this book as insightful and clever as Alcibiades I. There is a great difference between both books, and the reasons for it have been exposed before. I have therefore decided not to rate this book.

[Alberto Grandi · Rating 5 out of 5]

Breve e molto interessante.

[Brent · Rating 3 out of 5]

Seek wisdom and know The Good! Or else! The gods might grant you what you wish for (evil) or else not grant it at all. Not as good as Alcibiades I. Scholarly consensus is that this was not written by Plato. The dialogue is not literarily as good as Plato. Substance wise it’s lacking and what remains there is merely a repeat of Alcibiades I. Nevertheless Socrates had a couple funny zingers in here.

[L · Rating 2 out of 5]

Definitely not an authentic Plato dialogue. Besides a couple of misinformed Platonist ideas and the use of Socrates there is nothing in common with this dialogue and Plato's genuine works.

Other than that it was fine, nothing to get excited about.

[Maxime N. Georgel · Rating 4 out of 5]

Le Second Alcibiade a la même forme que le premier si ce n'est que le dialogue commence d'une façon plus abrupte. Alcibiade se rend prier les dieux. Socrate lui montre le grand péril qu'il y a à aller prier sans savoir si ce que nous demandons sera un bien finalement. Car si l'on demande la richesse mais qu'elle nous fait périr par la jalousie d'un autre, on aura obtenu un mal au lieu d'un bien.

De cela, on peut retenir l'importance de connaître la volonté de Dieu pour le prier d'une façon approprier. "Enseigne-nous à prier" disaient les disciples du Christ.
On peut aussi tirer consolation du fait que "Dieu mène tout à bonne fin pour moi" comme le dit à deux reprises le psautier ou que "tout concoure au bien de ceux qui aiment Dieu" et ainsi ne pas craindre, comme ces païens, de demander des choses au final mauvaises à des dieux arbitraires. Par ailleurs, la révélation nous fait connaître ce que nous pouvons demander et l'Esprit lui-même intercède par nous. Par cela, la prière du chrétien dépasse de loin celle du païen antique, fut-il aussi éclairé que Platon ou Socrate.

Et pourtant, quelle lumière quand Socrate nous dit que certains bénédictions tourneront à notre mal s'il nous manque la science la meilleure (la sagesse, la philosophie). Il en est de même pour la connaissance du Christ.

Et quelle lumière quand il comprend que les dieux ne sont pas intéressés par la multitude des sacrifices mais par l'obéissance du coeur.

"L'homme regarde à ce qui frappe les yeux mais l'Eternel regarde au coeur" dit la Bible.

"Oui, j'imagine, c'est bien vers l'âme que va leur regard, beaucoup plus que vers les processions et les sacrifices somptueux" dit Socrate.

[M F · Rating 2 out of 5]

Not much to say about this one. Like its predecessor, it's almost certainly not actually a work of Plato. The style and philosophical rigour (or lack thereof) is not at all what I've come to expect of Plato. In the end, Socrates convinces Alcibiades not to go pray yet---and, by extension, becomes a statesman---since he's too foolish to know what to pray for, unlike the Spartans, who know that it's best not to pray for anything in particular, except to ask the gods to give them what's good for them, even if they don't want it, and not to give them what's bad for them, even if it's what they want. Can't say my life is any richer for having read this.

[Sunbea☀️ · Rating 3 out of 5]

Socrate: "Mi sembra, però, che, come Omero dice che Atena tolse la nube dagli occhi di Diomede, perché potesse distinguere bene un dio da un uomo, [E] così anche a te egli debba togliere innanzi tutto dall'anima la nube, che ora vi si trova, per poi introdurvi ciò grazie a cui potrai conoscere il male ed il bene. Per adesso, infatti, non mi pare che tu ne abbia la capacità".
Alcibiade: "Che mi tolga pure, se vuole, la nebbia o qualcos'altro: io sono pronto a non sottrarmi a nessuno dei suoi ordini, chiunque sia quest'uomo, pur di diventare migliore".

[Delanie Dooms · Rating 3 out of 5]

Socrates talks to Alcibiades about prayer. We don't know what is good for us, nor what is evil, and praying on definite things can have mortal consequences; it is dangerous. We need to cultivate an understanding of what is best to be able to do this, and, if we don't, we probably shouldn't know certain things--that is to say, by not knowing these things we limit our chance of doing harm, as we are not walking unclear and muddled through life. The dialogue is attempting to prove an ideal--what is best--is important for to know how to act rightly.

[Trounin · Rating 3 out of 5]

Стоит ли просить богов о помощи, воздавая им молитвы? Если человек желает обрести благо, осознаёт ли он, что после будет жалеть о наступивших последствиях? Он снова станет просить богов о помощи, тем обретая новые затруднения. Такая позиция Сократа не могла удовлетворять окружавшее его общество. Люди считали такое отношение к богам проявлением неуважения.

(c) Trounin

[Basilisk · Rating 5 out of 5]

No matter whether by Plato or not, It remains an interesting dialog; It is about those who know a lot, and yet they know it all wrong, those who are most excellent in their craft, but who do not know how to behave properly before the gods, about how prayers for goodness may turn into curses and ailments. This dialog is about wisdom and ignorance, and it should not be underestimated for it sounds most relevant today.

[Joshua Dew · Rating 5 out of 5]

Short and sweet, but I loved it. How can we pray for what is good without truly knowing what is good? This suggests we should focus on knowing the good and our own souls rather than preforming quid pro quo sacrifices which may not truly reflect goodness or the will of the gods. Similar idea to the early Christian shift away from sacrifices and strict observance of the Law.

[Saadia · Rating 3 out of 5]

A seemingly spurious dialogue — Socrates warns Alcibides that he might pray for something and be granted his wish but then realise that was not right for him. Socrates then points to a prayer that asks for an aversion of anything that is grievous even if the person prayed it for it himself.

[Eliezer Sneiderman · Rating 4 out of 5]

Asks the interesting question, "What would happen if we got what we prayed for?" The lesson is "Be careful" prayers might be answered.

[ნინო ქერდიყოშვილი · Rating 3 out of 5]

სხვა ნააზრევებთან შედარებით სუსტია და ამიტომ, თუმცა, მაინც საინტერესოა.

[Julia P · Rating 2 out of 5]

It started out better than the first, but then went too specific to the times to be broadly applicable.

[Aaron Schuschu · Rating 4 out of 5]

In a Platonic dialogue of questionable authenticity, it is debated as to why prayers go unanswered (as well as what that implies about the hazier limits of sanity).

[Noah McMillen · Rating 4 out of 5]

This is a pithy dialogue on prayer and ignorance. Quite a fun, short read.

[Santiago González (puntoartica) · Rating 3 out of 5]

Un diálogo apócrifo que donde se habla de la plegaria, y se expone una doctrina bastante socrática. Es decente, aunque no aporta mucho

[Lauren · Rating 3 out of 5]

I read the David M. Johnson translation.

[Maike · Rating 2 out of 5]

Are they lovers?

[Keso Gagoshidze · Rating 2 out of 5]

ზოგადად, 2 ვარსკვლავით ვაფასებ ისეთ ნაწარმოებებს, რომლებმაც დიდად ვერაფერი შემძინეს ახალი. ვიმეორებ, ახალი. პლატონს ვეთანხმები იმ მონაკვეთში, სადაც ალკიბიადეს პირით ამბობს:

"ახლაღა მესმის, ჩემო სოკრატე, რამდენი უბედურების მიზეზია უმეცრება კაცთათვის, რაკიღა მის გამო, როგორც ჩანს, ჩვენდა შეუმჩნევლად არამარტო უმართრბლად ვიქცევით, არამედ, რაც ყველაზე უარესია, ვცდილობთ უდიდესი ბოროტებაც გამოვითხოვოთ ჩვენთვის; რაც, ალბათ, არავის აზრადაც არ მოუვიდოდა, ვინაიდან ყველას ჰგონია, რომ მხოლოდ სიკეთე შეუძლია ითხოვოს და არა ბოროტება; რაც მართალია, მართალია, ამნაირი თხოვნა წყევლას უფრო ემგვანება, ვიდრე ლოცვა-ვედრებას."
- ერთადერთი ღირებული და საინტერესო მონაკვეთი იყო ჩემთვის.

ობიექტურად, კეთილ არს ეს დიალოგი და მორწმუნეთათვის შეიძლება სამაგალითოდ იქცეს, თუმცა პირადად ჩემთვის ფუნდამენტურ მნიშვნელობას არ წარმოადგენს ადამიანის იდეალი, ლოცვა და
ღმერთ(ებ)ის ცნება და ვუწუნებ ზედმეტ რაციონალიზმს პლატონს - დეჟავუს შეგრძნება გამიჩინა.
საბოლოო ჯამში, პლატონის ჰიპიასებს უფრო მაღლა დავაყენებდი.

[Sara. A · Rating 4 out of 5]

⭐️(3/5) Beautiful and deep words of Socrates.
It's a brief read, but worth it. It demands to be devoured in a single read, in a quiet, reserved corner of one's world, where one can be transported back in time through the dialogue. Feel the majesty of Socrates' words caress one's soul.
A conversation between Socrates and Alcibiades on the art of praying to the Gods. However, the impression of the conversation is not limited to the relationship between a human and a God; it also reveals the depth of the art of asking.
I believe I will be re-reading this a few times to fully absorb the world within these words.

[Dolf van der Haven · Rating 3 out of 5]

This text is not ascribed to Plato anymore, but is considered to be of a much later date. Nevertheless, Socrates manages to talk gullible Alkibiades into a corner again with his mind- and wordtricks.
The topic here is "be careful what you wish for" when you ask something from the gods.

[Elliot Lake · Rating 4 out of 5]

Nice little dialogue, a lot of sensible advice here.

Especially on the pursuit of the best over better, and how doing otherwise is to shoot yourself in the foot.